Spirit of Wingleader: The hole Bush dug for himself (15 lies bush told @ Debates)

[Taco John]

1. "10 million people had registered to vote in Afhganistan."

Human Rights said that figure was inaccurate because of the multiple registrations of many voters.

2. "Direct talks with N. Korea would end joint diplomacy efforts"

Each of the four countries in the talks has held direct talks with North Korea, including the Bush administration.

3. "Libya was disarmed and Pakistan nuclear smuggling ring has been brought to justice."

Many experts credit diplomacy started in the Clinton administration for persuading Libya to cooperate. Khan was pardoned by President Pervez Musharraf, and not a single person involved in his network has been prosecuted anywhere.

4. "Spending on curbing nuclear proliferation increased by 35%."

In his first budget, he proposed a 13 percent cut and much of the increases since then have been added by Congress.

5. "Saddam had no intention of disarming."

There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to "disarm".

6. "You forgot Poland!"

Except for a few commandos, Polish troops were not part of the original ground invasion.

7. "Mished Messages!"

Kerry supported a different version of the bill with the $67 billion for the troops but without the administration's $20 billion request for reconstruction.

8. "We're spending reconstruction money in Iraq. That's progress."

Out of the total of $18 billion, as of Sept. 24, only $1.2 billion in reconstruction money had actually been spent so far.

9. "100,000 troops and other Iraqi security personnel have been trained."

Many trainees have received nothing more than a three-week course in police procedures, only 8,000 received a full eight-week course of training.

10. "Kerry says he'll withdraw the troops in 6 months."

Kerry actually said was that he believed he could "significantly reduce" US troop levels in Iraq within six months of taking office.

11. "75% of al Qaeda leaders have been brought to justice."

International Institute for Strategic Studies reported the occupation of Iraq has helped al Qaeda recruit more members--18,000 potential operatives in more than 60 countries.

12. "Bush put troops in Iraq because the enemy attacked us."

No evidence indicates Iraq cooperated with al-Qaida in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.

13. "We'll plan carefully for a war in Iraq."

The Bush administration ignored a huge State Department "Future of Iraq" project, ignored intelligence warnings that the country could descend into chaos and failed to include enough troops to secure the country's borders, nuclear plants and ammunition dumps; and the only government building in Baghdad that was guarded by American troops after the city fell was the oil ministry.

14. Kerry keeps changing his positions on Iraq.

Kerry never backed away from his vote authorizing the war and he's always said that Bush should have sought more international help.

15. The enemy (Saddam) attacked us.

Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us.

http://www.bushwatch.net/#inside\

[KCWolfman]

1. So what is the exact figure? Which human rights group? How did they obtain their data? How many people registered would be considered a success? (not a lie until you have proof that he did actually lie.)

2. I don't believe GWB stated no one had held talks previously with N Korea, I believe he said they would be detrimental if done so today. (not a lie by any stretch of the imagination)

3. Many of the East Indians using the ring as a smuggling and illegal immigrant route have been arrested, including Pakistani, Syrians, and Afghanis. While it is true that the head of the snake has not been taken out, the body has been totally destroyed.

4. Is the statement a lie at all? Did the spending increase 35% or not.




The rest of your mass email interpretation you received from twofacesbush.com in your daily briefing of propaganda and garbage is full of the same inconsistencies.


The only "lies" I see is by whomever sent you this crap.

[Frankie]

Bush also boasted about Poland as a part of the coalition "when we went into Iraq." Poland joined AFTER "mission accomplished." Lie #16? :shrug:

[Frankie]

Bush also boasted about Poland as a part of the coalition "when we went into Iraq." Poland joined AFTER "mission accomplished." Lie #16? :shrug:

OOps!... I missed #6. :redface:

But I said it better,... with more panache. ;)

[memyselfI]

1. "10 million people had registered to vote in Afhganistan."

Human Rights said that figure was inaccurate because of the multiple registrations of many voters.

2. "Direct talks with N. Korea would end joint diplomacy efforts"

Each of the four countries in the talks has held direct talks with North Korea, including the Bush administration.

3. "Libya was disarmed and Pakistan nuclear smuggling ring has been brought to justice."

Many experts credit diplomacy started in the Clinton administration for persuading Libya to cooperate. Khan was pardoned by President Pervez Musharraf, and not a single person involved in his network has been prosecuted anywhere.

4. "Spending on curbing nuclear proliferation increased by 35%."

In his first budget, he proposed a 13 percent cut and much of the increases since then have been added by Congress.

5. "Saddam had no intention of disarming."

There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to "disarm".

6. "You forgot Poland!"

Except for a few commandos, Polish troops were not part of the original ground invasion.

7. "Mished Messages!"

Kerry supported a different version of the bill with the $67 billion for the troops but without the administration's $20 billion request for reconstruction.

8. "We're spending reconstruction money in Iraq. That's progress."

Out of the total of $18 billion, as of Sept. 24, only $1.2 billion in reconstruction money had actually been spent so far.

9. "100,000 troops and other Iraqi security personnel have been trained."

Many trainees have received nothing more than a three-week course in police procedures, only 8,000 received a full eight-week course of training.

10. "Kerry says he'll withdraw the troops in 6 months."

Kerry actually said was that he believed he could "significantly reduce" US troop levels in Iraq within six months of taking office.

11. "75% of al Qaeda leaders have been brought to justice."

International Institute for Strategic Studies reported the occupation of Iraq has helped al Qaeda recruit more members--18,000 potential operatives in more than 60 countries.

12. "Bush put troops in Iraq because the enemy attacked us."

No evidence indicates Iraq cooperated with al-Qaida in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.

13. "We'll plan carefully for a war in Iraq."

The Bush administration ignored a huge State Department "Future of Iraq" project, ignored intelligence warnings that the country could descend into chaos and failed to include enough troops to secure the country's borders, nuclear plants and ammunition dumps; and the only government building in Baghdad that was guarded by American troops after the city fell was the oil ministry.

14. Kerry keeps changing his positions on Iraq.

Kerry never backed away from his vote authorizing the war and he's always said that Bush should have sought more international help.

15. The enemy (Saddam) attacked us.

Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us.

http://www.bushwatch.net/#inside\

CNN and MSNBC both reported yesterday that North Korea had asked the US for DIRECT talks the request supported by at least three of the countries in the 'joint' venture. :hmmm:

[memyselfI]

Bush also boasted about Poland as a part of the coalition "when we went into Iraq." Poland joined AFTER "mission accomplished." Lie #16? :shrug:

Poland has also said they were LIED too. ROFL

[RINGLEADER]

A lot of the quotes you use to make your case below are wrong, but I'll try to set you straight on your list Taco...

1. "10 million people had registered to vote in Afhganistan."

Human Rights said that figure was inaccurate because of the multiple registrations of many voters.

Um...OK.

2. "Direct talks with N. Korea would end joint diplomacy efforts"

Each of the four countries in the talks has held direct talks with North Korea, including the Bush administration.

Kim Jong Il wants direct talks. Reason enough not to have them. We see how well they went during the Clinton administration.

3. "Libya was disarmed and Pakistan nuclear smuggling ring has been brought to justice."

Many experts credit diplomacy started in the Clinton administration for persuading Libya to cooperate. Khan was pardoned by President Pervez Musharraf, and not a single person involved in his network has been prosecuted anywhere.

Which experts? What diplomacy? I agree that the dude should have been prosecuted, but he's a hero in Pakistan so I can see the problem that Perv has with prosecuting him.

4. "Spending on curbing nuclear proliferation increased by 35%."

In his first budget, he proposed a 13 percent cut and much of the increases since then have been added by Congress.

Actually, there was a 35% increase in containing nuclear materials but almost all of that was directed at domestic efforts. Less than a 10% increase was allocated because of congressional efforts that Bush signed off on, so you're right on this one.

5. "Saddam had no intention of disarming."

There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to "disarm".

Egads, this one is getting old. In 1998 when Saddam kicked the inspectors out he still had not allocated for a variety of WMDs that he originally declared in the early 90s as part of the cease-fire in 1991. These materials included 10,000 liters of anthrax that his new, final declaration in 2003, and his second, final declaration of 2003 both forgot to mention. Later Saddam said that he had disposed of the materials in the desert but testing was inconclusive. Just weeks before the invasion Hans Blix was still citing the anthrax as not adequately accounted for. Saddam's neighbors thought he had WMDs. The CIA thought he had WMDs. The UN security council members thought he had WMDs. Even Saddam's own generals, interviewed after the initial ground war, thought that other generals had WMDs and would use them.

6. "You forgot Poland!"

Except for a few commandos, Polish troops were not part of the original ground invasion.

True, Poland wasn't a significant part of the initial invasion. But they have been a loyal partner in the aftermath. Still see problems for John Kerry attracting all these new allies (allies that he himself says won't be adding new troops) to our side when he can't seem to acknowledge the ones that we have now.

7. "Mished Messages!"

Kerry supported a different version of the bill with the $67 billion for the troops but without the administration's $20 billion request for reconstruction.

Not exactly. The version Kerry supported, which was originally put forth by Joe Biden, reduced the tax cut stimulas for the upper-bracket individuals and 'S' Corps (small businesses and sole proprietorships) in exchange for approval of funds to go to troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. That version was voted down. Kerry voted against the only version that mattered, the final version which even Joe Biden voted for. His advisers said it was because of Howard Dean. Kerry has alternatively said it was a vote he was "proud of", a vote that was "complicated" or a vote that he "misspoke" about. It's also interesting to note that Kerry is now berating Bush over how the reconstruction funds are being applied in Iraq and Afghanistan - including his insistence that he can get other allies to the table by giving the reconstruction funds to the UN to administer - when he himself voted against them.

Even during the debate Kerry vascillated between the war being wrong then not being a mistake then being a collassal error. He has said it was a good thing then not a good thing to get Saddam (but now says it was good but he could have done it differently...without explaining how).

8. "We're spending reconstruction money in Iraq. That's progress."

Out of the total of $18 billion, as of Sept. 24, only $1.2 billion in reconstruction money had actually been spent so far.

And if Kerry had his way there would be no funds to spend on reconstruction. Or fuel. Or bullets. Or body armor.

9. "100,000 troops and other Iraqi security personnel have been trained."

Many trainees have received nothing more than a three-week course in police procedures, only 8,000 received a full eight-week course of training.

Those who were previous members of the Iraqi defense infrastructure have received the three-week course. But Bush is wrong even about those numbers...it is closer to 50,000. The 8,000 figure for the longer term training course is accurate according to everything I've read.

10. "Kerry says he'll withdraw the troops in 6 months."

Kerry actually said was that he believed he could "significantly reduce" US troop levels in Iraq within six months of taking office.

Kerry actually said that he could get a majority (that's 50.1%) of the troops home in a year back in August. He has said that he could get all the troops home in four years. He has also said that he would do so even if democracy doesn't take root and he has also said that the lynchpin of his plan is getting other countries to supply the troops so the US can bring theirs home (something even he admitted during the Diane Sawyer interview isn't realistic).

11. "75% of al Qaeda leaders have been brought to justice."

International Institute for Strategic Studies reported the occupation of Iraq has helped al Qaeda recruit more members--18,000 potential operatives in more than 60 countries.

I don't think any group knows the number of recruits that have been enlisted by Al Qaeda because of Iraq. What Bush said is accurate (that 75% of the leadership that was in place on 9/11 has been killed or brought to justice), but only based on the figures available in 2001. Given that the number of Al Qaeda has almost certainly increased since 9/11 it is highly improbable that the 75% figure is correct. But a lot have been killed or jailed.

12. "Bush put troops in Iraq because the enemy attacked us."

No evidence indicates Iraq cooperated with al-Qaida in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.

But there's no evidence that indicates Bush ever said Iraq was involved with Al Qaeda on 9/11 either (despite Kerry trying to make that case). Bush has said that he went into Iraq because, based on the intelligence info and Saddam's unwillingness to submit to verification that was laid out in multiple UN resolutions, he wasn't going to trust someone who was telling the UN he still had WMDs and had had contacts with Al Qaeda and allow them to potentially give WMDs to Al Qaeda in the future.

13. "We'll plan carefully for a war in Iraq."

The Bush administration ignored a huge State Department "Future of Iraq" project, ignored intelligence warnings that the country could descend into chaos and failed to include enough troops to secure the country's borders, nuclear plants and ammunition dumps; and the only government building in Baghdad that was guarded by American troops after the city fell was the oil ministry.

No argument from me there. They pulled off the invasion magnificently but were too eager to wind the thing down instead of taking out all the bad guys in all the cities while the war was still hot. I'm sure the same liberals who now point this out would have been the first jumping up and down about how we were going to sustain casualties by going in and clearing out the cities (just like they were when the initial ground war encountered some resistence and they said we might not take Baghdad for months...see Wesley Clark), but I agree completely that they botched phase two of the war.

14. Kerry keeps changing his positions on Iraq.

Kerry never backed away from his vote authorizing the war and he's always said that Bush should have sought more international help.

You're delusional if you think Kerry has been consistent. Whether or not anyone will care come election day is another matter entirely.

15. The enemy (Saddam) attacked us.

Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us.

Didn't we already cover this one? I think a Top 15 list must have sounded better than a Top 14 list which is why the author is repeating himself.

http://www.bushwatch.net/#inside\

I love partisanship!

[the Talking Can]

That's a lot of lying. Judging by the polls about people's reactions to the debate I'd say most people felt the same way.

[Frankie]

That's a lot of lying.......

ROFL
The sad part is that this was the "meat" of his debate. The rest of it was repeating about a dozen times how "it's hard work," "wrong message to the troups" and "my opponent is inconsistant." The canned soundbytes Karl Rove gave him to say maybe once or twice each!... Oh, and then there was that pathetic attempt at dramatics when he told us the story of "the mother of the fallen soldier who told him that it was all worth it!".... :rolleyes:

[Taco John]

Here's another one:

We have the resources to get the job done in Iraq and Afghanistan...





Not according to this CIA official:


CIA Official: We Can't Stop bin Laden
By Staff and Wire Reports
Sep 17, 2004, 07:30
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The Central Intelligence Agency lacks the coordination, the capability, the resources or the resolve to stop future terrorist attacks from Osama bin Laden and his network, a senior CIA officer says.

Mike Scheuer says bad decisions, understaffing and infighting among intelligence agencies stifled efforts to stop Osama bin Laden and his network. More than three years after the Sept. 11 attacks, the agency remains short-staffed, he says.
In an unusually critical campaign for a government employee, Scheuer has spent much of the last three months publicly criticizing his agency. Most government officials wait until they retire, as former National Security Council aide Richard Clarke did.

In July, Scheuer, head of the CIA's bin Laden unit until 1999, published his best-selling book "Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror." Then, he was only identified as "Anonymous."

Last week, Scheuer sent the Senate Intelligence Committee a six-page letter accusing senior career civil servants of failing to ensure the "optimal performance" of the U.S. intelligence community and of missing opportunities to stop bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist group and prevent the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Scheuer lists 10 management and leadership problems in the letter, delivered just before the confirmation hearing of President Bush's nominee to run the CIA, Rep. Porter Goss, R-Fla. A congressional source provided a copy to The Associated Press this week.

"There has been no systematic effort to groom al-Qaida expertise among Directorate of Operations officers since 11 September," Scheuer writes, referring to the CIA's most famous division, its clandestine service. "Today, the unit is greatly understaffed because of a 'hiring freeze' and the rotation of large numbers of officers in and out of the unit every 60 to 90 days."

He says experienced officers do less work and become trainers for officers who leave before they are qualified for the mission. Senior CIA managers running operations against al-Qaida have made pleas for more officers, Scheuer says.

The CIA declined to comment on Scheuer's statements.

An intelligence official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Scheuer met numerous times with a commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks and made the criticisms found in his letter. The official said the clandestine service has more officers working against al-Qaida at headquarters and overseas than before the Sept. 11 attacks, and also has more expertise on al-Qaida.

At his confirmation hearing, Goss said he reached conclusions similar to Scheuer's and sees a need to improve the CIA's human intelligence capabilities: "They are our best bet for dealing with the war on terrorism," Goss said.

In his letter, Scheuer details past intelligence woes. He says the CIA initially suppressed a 1996 report about al-Qaida's unsuccessful efforts to acquire a nuclear weapon, and that an abbreviated version was circulated within the intelligence community following internal protests.

He also describes disputes between the CIA and another intelligence agency over access to al-Qaida communications intercepts.

Scheuer complains that the bin Laden unit was ordered to disband in spring 1998, leading many there to look for jobs just before the East Africa embassy bombings in August. Then-CIA Director George Tenet intervened and kept the unit open.

Scheuer says intelligence officers were transferred at critical times, and the military wouldn't provide U.S. special-operations experts to help plan actions against al-Qaida.

When Scheuer wrote his book, he was initially only allowed to be identified as "Anonymous." He did a series of television interviews with his face darkened and print interviews on the condition he not be identified. Gradually, his identity has come out.

In an AP interview in June, speaking anonymously, the author said he saw a "denigration in my responsibilities" over the last five years. This week, his editor, Christina Davidson of Brassey's Inc., said he is considering leaving the agency.

"The anonymous author of Imperial Hubris is very close to resignation for a number of reasons, including denial of interviews," said Davidson, who is still bound by an agreement with the CIA not to identify Scheuer.

[whoman69]

Bush has stated numerous times that Saddam had ties to Al Quaida and de facto to 9/11. His VP went as far to call the media that reported to the contrary from the 9/11 commission to be irresponsible and that it was a slam dunk. He continued these claims even after members of that commission stated that the reports are correct in stating that Iraq had no significant ties to Al Quaida. Cheney continued the claims even after the clarification. Amazing the administration continues to try to make these ties even though it was not mentioned as a reason for going to war until a month after the war had started and WMDs were yet to be found.

[Frankie]

Up. As constant reminder. :evil: :p

[Pennywise]

:

But I said it better,... with more panache. ;)

No doubt you have a panoche.

[KCTitus]

1. "10 million people had registered to vote in Afhganistan."

Human Rights said that figure was inaccurate because of the multiple registrations of many voters.


Must have been DNC registrars doing the training...

[Mr. Kotter]

Talk about "simple minded sheep....

I thought that was Rush's audience.....if this is how liberals convince their following of "lies," they are the ones who are sheep.... :shake:

[Frankie]

Shameless lying needs to be brought back to people's attention. Don't you think? :evil: