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Guru
04-14-2010, 04:03 PM
Maybe because Dez can communicate with his alternate reality consciousness and if so, killing Locke would mean that Ben couldn't kill him and bring him back to the island to lead a war against Widmore.that never would have happened in that reality.

arrowheadnation
04-14-2010, 04:10 PM
Maybe because Dez can communicate with his alternate reality consciousness and if so, killing Locke would mean that Ben couldn't kill him and bring him back to the island to lead a war against Widmore.

Hmmm....I thought by the smirk on Dez's face when he did the deed, he pretty much knew already that he wouldn't kill him if he hit him. Charlie made him realize this with the car in the ocean stunt. He hit him to trigger some memories from the island reality. (like Hurley and libby's kiss)

irishjayhawk
04-14-2010, 04:13 PM
Maybe because Dez can communicate with his alternate reality consciousness and if so, killing Locke would mean that Ben couldn't kill him and bring him back to the island to lead a war against Widmore.

I thought it was pretty simple: killing Dez switches him to the alt timeline. So, to get back, (in the preview he's in the well) he must kill the person who killed him in the real timeline.

The flaw is that two episodes ago, he showed us that he could go freely between them.

DaneMcCloud
04-14-2010, 04:13 PM
that never would have happened in that reality.

But it could have altered the other reality.

Or not.

I give up until I re-watch it. We didn't get a chance to turn it on until after 11pm last night, which is why I haven't posted any thoughts (or than this one) to this point.

noa
04-14-2010, 05:29 PM
I didn't think Desmond was trying to kill Locke for revenge. Like Red Brooklyn, I thought he wanted to send him to the hospital so he could reconnect with Jack. I know that Jack and Locke already met and nothing was triggered, but maybe it will be this time?

Red Brooklyn
04-14-2010, 06:08 PM
I guess, but he knew he was going to see Locke. There is something more up there. When Locke said "Hello Jack" it was like he was in on a little secret. It was menacing as hell.

I think there is something more to it than just being the first time Jack saw Locke since his death.

I really want to know why Dez tried to kill Locke in the alt.
I have no idea. I was just throwing something out there. I'll have to watch the episode again because I honestly don't remember anything out of the ordinary about Jack's look. So... I don't know, man.

oldandslow
04-14-2010, 07:37 PM
I don't believe Des killed him either...it is simply a way to get Locke and Jack back together - although I do think Des enjoyed it :). Of course Des isn't dead either...we see Sayid trying to put a bullet through him in the previews for next week.

What I believe will happen - and none of this is spoiler worthy cause it is just simply what I believe:


I believe there will be a real "sacrifice" that could take place on this show...and it ain't gonna lead to a happy ending.

Anyway, I think Jack and Juliette were married in the ATL and have a son together and of course Juliette dies on the island.

Hugo and Libby are together in the ATL. Libby dies on the island.

I think Sawyer and Kate get together in the ATL and Kate will die on the island - prolly attempting to kill Locke - or maybe just gets blown up with bad dynamite :).

Sayid and Shannon will, imo, get together in the ATL...are we starting to see a pattern here.

Penny, according to this pattern will die on the island as well.

What I haven't put together is the kid and how he plays into all of this...Perhaps he is a young smoke monster or a young Jacob...or whatever.

Anyway the last two shows are entitled What they died for. I think that means Des, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, and Hugo die keeping MIB from leaving the island.

They might even have a choice...be happy in ATL or die saving the original time line...which might be kind of cool. Anyway that is my theory based on nothing but supposition and my preference for dark endings.

Shag
04-15-2010, 10:39 AM
In the sideways flash, it seems clear to me that Desmond is trying to wake up the 815ers to the alternate reality on the island. I think him crashing into Locke is his way of waking up Locke to the island reality. Given that Locke is dead on the island, I think either killing him (then reviving him?), or giving him a near-death experience is supposed to wake him up.

Charlie, Desmond, and Hurley were all connected to the alternate timeline via love, but Locke didn't have love on the island. Perhaps he is connected via death?

noa
04-15-2010, 11:33 AM
I also think that the young boy Flocke sees is a young Jacob.

Chiefless
04-15-2010, 11:34 AM
In the sideways flash, it seems clear to me that Desmond is trying to wake up the 815ers to the alternate reality on the island. I think him crashing into Locke is his way of waking up Locke to the island reality. Given that Locke is dead on the island, I think either killing him (then reviving him?), or giving him a near-death experience is supposed to wake him up.

Charlie, Desmond, and Hurley were all connected to the alternate timeline via love, but Locke didn't have love on the island. Perhaps he is connected via death?

Could it be said that Lock's love was the island itself?

irishjayhawk
04-15-2010, 05:05 PM
I don't believe Des killed him either...it is simply a way to get Locke and Jack back together - although I do think Des enjoyed it :). Of course Des isn't dead either...we see Sayid trying to put a bullet through him in the previews for next week.

What I believe will happen - and none of this is spoiler worthy cause it is just simply what I believe:


I believe there will be a real "sacrifice" that could take place on this show...and it ain't gonna lead to a happy ending.

Anyway, I think Jack and Juliette were married in the ATL and have a son together and of course Juliette dies on the island.

Hugo and Libby are together in the ATL. Libby dies on the island.

I think Sawyer and Kate get together in the ATL and Kate will die on the island - prolly attempting to kill Locke - or maybe just gets blown up with bad dynamite :).

Sayid and Shannon will, imo, get together in the ATL...are we starting to see a pattern here.

Penny, according to this pattern will die on the island as well.

What I haven't put together is the kid and how he plays into all of this...Perhaps he is a young smoke monster or a young Jacob...or whatever.

Anyway the last two shows are entitled What they died for. I think that means Des, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, and Hugo die keeping MIB from leaving the island.

They might even have a choice...be happy in ATL or die saving the original time line...which might be kind of cool. Anyway that is my theory based on nothing but supposition and my preference for dark endings.

Everyone keeps harping on about the bolded sentence. I don't see a shred of evidence for it.

Now, wanting Locke to flash on the island about the alt universe (or the alt Locke to flash about his possessed body) makes a lot of sense given the other flashing we've seen.

Red Brooklyn
04-15-2010, 05:20 PM
I think Des's goal was to awaken Locke to the truth. Just like Charlie did for Des. I think a happy by-product of the "attack" is that Locke will potentially go the hospital. Probably to be opporated on by Jack. I think Sun is probably headed there as well. I think this is fortunte for Des because he wants to awaken all 815ers. So, ultimately, this will serve multiple purposes.

But I don't think Des was thinking, "Hey, if I run this dude over with my car he will be in the same room with Jack! Crikey! That's what I have to do!!"

AustinChief
04-15-2010, 06:51 PM
Probably not the case... BUT my first thought was that killing Locke in the ALT timeline would replace Flocke with the real Locke on the island timeline... and MIB would again be noncorporeal. Doubtful that is the case, but just my first reaction...

Mr. Plow
04-15-2010, 08:22 PM
But I don't think Des was thinking, "Hey, if I run this dude over with my car he will be in the same room with Jack! Crikey! That's what I have to do!!"

I lol'd.

Chiefnj2
04-15-2010, 08:26 PM
Everyone keeps harping on about the bolded sentence. I don't see a shred of evidence for it.

Now, wanting Locke to flash on the island about the alt universe (or the alt Locke to flash about his possessed body) makes a lot of sense given the other flashing we've seen.

Jack has been the main character from the start. I think it'll be a Jack/MIB in some form showdown at the end.

In an interview yesterday Hugo said that MIB/Flocke doesn't lie. I think he's trying to get the lostees together to kill them all at one time. The trick will be tricking one of them into doing it since choices have to be made of free will and he said he wouldn't harm them.

BigRedChief
04-16-2010, 08:41 AM
Jack has been the main character from the start. I think it'll be a Jack/MIB in some form showdown at the end.

In an interview yesterday Hugo said that MIB/Flocke doesn't lie. I think he's trying to get the lostees together to kill them all at one time. The trick will be tricking one of them into doing it since choices have to be made of free will and he said he wouldn't harm them.yeah this season has been more and more focus on free will and choice. So no, locke/MIB won't actually pull the trigger to kill them but just set it up to where it happens. It's still dependant on the individual to make the decision. Yeah I could see the final fatal moment being one of the major charectors is going to kill all the rest and another major charector steps up and saves the day and dies in the process.

Baby Lee
04-17-2010, 03:53 PM
What to make of previous promises that this is not purgatory and all answers will be scientific and not fantasy?

I mean the Whispering Dead of the island suggests purgatory is at least in the mix.

DaneMcCloud
04-17-2010, 04:00 PM
What to make of previous promises that this is not purgatory and all answers will be scientific and not fantasy?

I mean the Whispering Dead of the island suggests purgatory is at least in the mix.

I think it's a "purgatory". Of what kind, I have no idea, especially considering all of the ancient Egyptian artifact, hieroglyphics, statues and what not.

Most people immediately thought it was purgatory after the first few episodes, but the producers immediately dismissed it. They couldn't let everyone know that it WAS a purgatory, thus giving away their "secret".

It's telling to me because no one has dismissed the idea that the island isn't Hell, as Richard so described it. Also, Hurley says to Michael "The voices. They're from people that can't move on", meaning it's some kind of "holding place" between Heaven and Hell. Again, that hasn't been dismissed by anyone.

Baby Lee
04-18-2010, 08:21 AM
"we were not lying, it's not purgatory"

That rises above 'dismissal.'

BigRedChief
04-18-2010, 09:18 AM
"we were not lying, it's not purgatory"

That rises above 'dismissal.'Correct, the Producers went way beyond trying to conceal a premise of the show.

It wasn't a leap of faith or having a very active imagination to have your first thought be that the island is some kind of purgurtory. They had to know thats what everyone would think right out of the gate. If your goal was to reveal its really purgatory at the end then you needed to conceal or misdirect much more often and earlier in the series.

L.A. Chieffan
04-19-2010, 10:38 AM
its probably just a weird island. thats my theory

patteeu
04-19-2010, 11:06 AM
its probably just a weird island. thats my theory

Spoiler

Guru
04-19-2010, 10:33 PM
ROFLSpoiler

cookster50
04-21-2010, 07:57 AM
Wow, I guess everyone thought the same thing about last nights epi as I did since there has been no posts on it and this thread was on page two before my reply. Epi was fairly pointless IMO. Not much occurred.

oldandslow
04-21-2010, 08:07 AM
Wow, I guess everyone thought the same thing about last nights epi as I did since there has been no posts on it and this thread was on page two before my reply. Epi was fairly pointless IMO. Not much occurred.

The epi did nothing. Everyone knew John and Jack were getting together in the ATL and all they did on the isle was get the boat and fling a few mortar shells so that John and Jack could get together on the island.

Most interesting part of the whole show was the convo between Sayid and Des.

Time suck till the finale...after the last two GREAT epi's I was really disappointed in this one.

For the relationship lovers, (my wife, for example) I think it moved toward Kate and Sawyer becoming the real thing.

arrowheadnation
04-21-2010, 08:28 AM
The bad part is, we have to wait two weeks for the next ep.

Chiefnj2
04-21-2010, 08:48 AM
Slightly interesting is that MIB wants to keep Jack alive.

oldandslow
04-21-2010, 08:55 AM
Slightly interesting is that MIB wants to keep Jack alive.

I think he has to have him alive to leave the island...John, Jack, Sun, Jin, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley all together is the only way to leave.

Chiefnj2
04-21-2010, 09:09 AM
I think he has to have him alive to leave the island...John, Jack, Sun, Jin, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley all together is the only way to leave.

Maybe.

I was reading over at darkufo some interesting comments on the episode.

Many (most) of the scenes were mirror images of past season events - the party breaking into to two - some to get a sailboat and some to confront the others (season 2), Sawyer sacrificing himself jumping off the helicopter leaving Jack and Kate, etc.

I still don't understand the MIB rules. He seemed to indicate to Sawyer he couldn't go across water, but he was on the freighter as Jack's dad.

Locke didn't seem afraid of the mortars. I guess Widmore doesn't realize he can't kill "Locke" that way.

Mr. Plow
04-21-2010, 09:13 AM
Many (most) of the scenes were mirror images of past season events - the party breaking into to two - some to get a sailboat and some to confront the others (season 2), Sawyer sacrificing himself jumping off the helicopter leaving Jack and Kate, etc.


I noticed that as well. Several scenes were being "replayed" with reversed roles.

arrowheadnation
04-21-2010, 10:31 AM
Here are the thoughts I had while watching last night:

Alternate reality Dez is rounding them all up at the hospital. Gotta be a reason.

If Juliette isn't that kid's mom, I will suck my own #%+#. She's the only one we haven't seen yet in the flash sideways.

Prepare yourself for aarowheadnation's obvious revelation of the week......


you ready?



I don't think Yid killed Dez.

People are about to start dropping like flies. You can see it coming.

Where the hell are Alpert and Ben? I still say Ben is going to sacrifice himself to save.....somebody (I don't know who)...Sawyer too.

Jack is going to leave the island, but he's gonna kill Flocke first. That's the part of him that can't leave.

Mr. Plow
04-21-2010, 10:39 AM
I don't think Yid killed Dez.


I don't believe so either. I think he let him live. Not only that, it started to look that Claire was "changing"....or becoming normal to me. Maybe both Sayid & Claire are headed back to the good side.

KCFalcon59
04-21-2010, 10:51 AM
I don't think Yid killed Dez.

If MIB/Locke wanted him dead why didn't he just do it himself? Maybe he can't kill Dez.

DaneMcCloud
04-21-2010, 10:52 AM
The fact that MIB was pretending to be Christian to both Jack & Claire is interesting, especially because Claire was with Christian in Jacob's cabin.

Dez wasn't killed by Sayid but Dez did "wake him up".

Something explosive is going to happen in that hospital when they're all together. Sun "woke up" at the sight of John Locke (although she seemed terrified for some reason) and was suddenly able to speak English once again.

I thought it was a very good episode but it seems like some people are wanting answers more quickly than the producers are revealing them.

Keep in mind that May 4th's episode won't have anything to do with the Lostie's. It's supposed to be all about Jacob and the MIB. I imagine that May 18th's episode will set everything up for the finale.

Baby Lee
04-21-2010, 10:58 AM
First off, WTF is up with Jack? I'm the leader, I'm the follower, you make the decisions Hurley, this is all wrong, I'm jumping off the boat and dumping these plans I was so sanguine about 15 minutes ago.

Second, MIB=DaddyJack doesn't do much to explain DaddyJack on the Freighter or in LA.

Brock
04-21-2010, 11:43 AM
First off, WTF is up with Jack? I'm the leader, I'm the follower, you make the decisions Hurley, this is all wrong, I'm jumping off the boat and dumping these plans I was so sanguine about 15 minutes ago.

Second, MIB=DaddyJack doesn't do much to explain DaddyJack on the Freighter or in LA.

Yep, hope is fading that this is going to end as strongly as it started.

DaneMcCloud
04-21-2010, 11:48 AM
First off, WTF is up with Jack? I'm the leader, I'm the follower, you make the decisions Hurley, this is all wrong, I'm jumping off the boat and dumping these plans I was so sanguine about 15 minutes ago.

Second, MIB=DaddyJack doesn't do much to explain DaddyJack on the Freighter or in LA.

Yep, hope is fading that this is going to end as strongly as it started.

It's quite possible that was Jacob manipulating Jack

oldandslow
04-21-2010, 03:22 PM
Yep, hope is fading that this is going to end as strongly as it started.

Agreed...albeit it is hard to do better TV than the the pilot of this show.

cookster50
04-22-2010, 07:25 AM
The fact that MIB was pretending to be Christian to both Jack & Claire is interesting, especially because Claire was with Christian in Jacob's cabin.

I think Flocke was lieing, Jacob was pretending to be Christian to Jack.

JASONSAUTO
04-22-2010, 07:51 AM
The fact that MIB was pretending to be Christian to both Jack & Claire is interesting, especially because Claire was with Christian in Jacob's cabin.

Dez wasn't killed by Sayid but Dez did "wake him up".

Something explosive is going to happen in that hospital when they're all together. Sun "woke up" at the sight of John Locke (although she seemed terrified for some reason) and was suddenly able to speak English once again.

I thought it was a very good episode but it seems like some people are wanting answers more quickly than the producers are revealing them.

Keep in mind that May 4th's episode won't have anything to do with the Lostie's. It's supposed to be all about Jacob and the MIB. I imagine that May 18th's episode will set everything up for the finale.

christian is her dad right?

BigRedChief
04-22-2010, 07:56 AM
I think Flocke was lieing, Jacob was pretending to be Christian to Jack.Wasn't there some deal that MIB can't lie to the candidates?

SithCeNtZ
04-22-2010, 02:53 PM
First off, WTF is up with Jack? I'm the leader, I'm the follower, you make the decisions Hurley, this is all wrong, I'm jumping off the boat and dumping these plans I was so sanguine about 15 minutes ago.

Second, MIB=DaddyJack doesn't do much to explain DaddyJack on the Freighter or in LA.

You can see the cracks in the show developing from the second they moved this from a Ben/Widmore plot line to the two super gods plot line. You can tell they didn't plan on the super gods plot line because as you and other people have noted, there are so many WTF how does that make any sense moments that the show can't cover them up at this point. I could go on for about 50 minutes why nothing that has happened this season makes any sense in relation to the previous seasons. My money is on the theory that the show was always supposed to end with Ben/Widmore fighting for the island and they only went to the super god plot line because ABC wanted more shows for more money.

MaxFects
04-22-2010, 03:30 PM
Ben wasn't supposed to be on the show long. His acting ability kept him in the scripts.

Chiefnj2
04-22-2010, 03:40 PM
It'll be interesting if they ever come clean on what the basic original outline was.

I think they always had some mythology and "gods" planned and it was other characters and love stories that detoured the story. The pilot was full of mythology.

DaneMcCloud
04-22-2010, 04:43 PM
You can see the cracks in the show developing from the second they moved this from a Ben/Widmore plot line to the two super gods plot line. You can tell they didn't plan on the super gods plot line because as you and other people have noted, there are so many WTF how does that make any sense moments that the show can't cover them up at this point. I could go on for about 50 minutes why nothing that has happened this season makes any sense in relation to the previous seasons. My money is on the theory that the show was always supposed to end with Ben/Widmore fighting for the island and they only went to the super god plot line because ABC wanted more shows for more money.

You couldn't be more wrong

DaneMcCloud
04-22-2010, 04:44 PM
I think Flocke was lieing, Jacob was pretending to be Christian to Jack.

Nope, not true.

He even told Jack "You needed water and I took you to water".

Are you speculating that he knew exactly what happened but yet he wasn't there?

DaneMcCloud
04-22-2010, 04:44 PM
christian is her dad right?

Yes, and the MIB knew that

BigMeatballDave
04-28-2010, 06:28 AM
Wtf, a repeat?

cookster50
04-28-2010, 06:40 AM
Nope, not true.

He even told Jack "You needed water and I took you to water".

Are you speculating that he knew exactly what happened but yet he wasn't there?

Yes. That is my theory. Probably way off though.

Mr. Plow
04-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Wtf, a repeat?


This was kind of like "Lost Bye Week".

Chiefnj2
04-28-2010, 10:37 AM
Last night was unbelievable. I can't believe they had Sawyer kill Kate. And what was up with Locke transforming into Hugo?









(- I'm just trying to piss off anyone who missed last night's episode.)

Red Brooklyn
04-28-2010, 10:41 AM
Last night was unbelievable. I can't believe they had Sawyer kill Kate. And what was up with Locke transforming into Hugo?









(- I'm just trying to piss off anyone who missed last night's episode.)
Damn it!! :cuss:

Come on, dickwad, put that shit in spoiler tag!! For fuck's sake!












:D

tymania
04-28-2010, 10:42 AM
Last night was unbelievable. I can't believe they had Sawyer kill Kate. And what was up with Locke transforming into Hugo?









(- I'm just trying to piss off anyone who missed last night's episode.)

i couldnt believe they had sawyer kill kate too.. And Locke transforming into Hugo was crazy.. What about when Locke as Hugo kicked Jack's ass for not listening to him? That was awesome

Mr. Plow
04-28-2010, 11:10 AM
Spoiler tags assholes.......

Screw you guys, I'm going home

http://static.autoblog.nl/images/wp2009/cartman-screw-you-guys.jpg

Guru
04-29-2010, 01:11 AM
Spoiler tags assholes.......

Screw you guys, I'm going home

http://static.autoblog.nl/images/wp2009/cartman-screw-you-guys.jpgOh shit!!! They even killed Kenny!!!

Fish
04-29-2010, 08:56 AM
A cameo by John Goodman? Only to have him die on the show?

No way!

Red Brooklyn
04-29-2010, 10:24 AM
A cameo by John Goodman? Only to have him die on the show?

No way!
Yeah, but Darlton just confirmed in an interview that he'll be back in zombie form just like Sayid.

Apparently he eats at least three major characters in the finale.

oldandslow
04-29-2010, 12:13 PM
Spoiler Alert






















Yeah, but the really best part was the love scene between the reincarnated Juliette and Kate.

Red Brooklyn
04-29-2010, 12:35 PM
That was an amazing scene. I can't believe Juliet fisted Kate. It's those kinds of character scenes that make LOST so brilliant.

Chiefnj2
05-04-2010, 08:29 AM
No joke - 6 pages of script from the finale were leaked and are easily findable. They are up at darkufo and other sites.

Red Brooklyn
05-04-2010, 10:08 AM
Huh.... I'm not really interested in the content of those six pages... but I am curious if anyone knows WHICH 6 pages. Is it the fist 6 pages? The last 6 pages? 6 random pages?

Chiefnj2
05-04-2010, 10:28 AM
Huh.... I'm not really interested in the content of those six pages... but I am curious if anyone knows WHICH 6 pages. Is it the fist 6 pages? The last 6 pages? 6 random pages?

IIRC, random but some were in succession.

Mr. Plow
05-04-2010, 10:45 AM
I like a few spoilers - found a couple interesting ones at darkufo - but not pages worth of spoilers.

Guru
05-04-2010, 08:53 PM
Jin was a dumbass.

teedubya
05-04-2010, 09:00 PM
I can't believe I missed Juliet fisting Kate. FUCK!!

Red Brooklyn
05-04-2010, 09:23 PM
Saw this on another site:
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/05/abc-expands-lost-finale-by-extra-halfhour.html

ABC expands 'Lost' finale by extra half-hour!

Exclu: There's more "Lost" left than you think.

The producers of ABC's hit drama have shot so much crucial material for the show's hugely anticipated series finale that the network has agreed to extend the last episode by an extra half hour.

When the "Lost" finale airs on Sunday, May 23rd, the episode will run from 9 to 11:30 p.m. The overrun will air instead of the local news, with the "Jimmy Kimmel Live: Aloha to Lost" post-finale special remaining at 11:30 p.m. ABC is expected to announce the plan on tonight's episode of Kimmel.

Executive producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof just completed post-production on the finale -- titled "The End" -- on Monday night. Both sent out identical Tweets: "We're done. Amen."

The supersizing of the finale is the latest adjustment to what might as well be called "The 'Lost' Weekend." ABC is airing an "enhanced" (pop-ups) version of the show's original two-hour pilot on May 22. On Sunday there's a two-hour retrospective titled "Lost: The Final Journey," followed by the finale and Kimmel post-show.

arrowheadnation
05-04-2010, 09:39 PM
Damn....it's really almost over. Cannot wait for the epic stare down between Jack and Flocke.

Red Brooklyn
05-04-2010, 09:46 PM
Damn....it's really almost over.

...

I almost can't take it. This episode finally drove home the fact that this really, actually, truly, completely ending. Wow.

arrowheadnation
05-04-2010, 11:35 PM
To me the biggest "nugget" of this episode came at the VERY end. When the sub sinks, there appears to be a bit of a letdown on the face of Flocke (as if he was expecting to be freed). Claire says "they're all dead?" Flocke says, "no" grabs the gun and leaves stating that he's going "to finish what he started." I think this means he thinks all of the people on the sub died but he's realized that Sayid did not kill Desmond, so he's off to the well to finish him off. Thanks to Yid's heroics, Jack and crew know he's still alive too so they'll be on their way there as well. Flocke is in for a big surprise when he finds out that not all of the crew on the sub (the important ones anyway) did not die. Richard and Ben are still out there as well. I would assume the ultimate betrayal will come when Claire turns on Flocke when he needs her help.

Guru
05-05-2010, 12:19 AM
Saw this on another site:
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/05/abc-expands-lost-finale-by-extra-halfhour.html

ABC expands 'Lost' finale by extra half-hour!

Exclu: There's more "Lost" left than you think.

The producers of ABC's hit drama have shot so much crucial material for the show's hugely anticipated series finale that the network has agreed to extend the last episode by an extra half hour.

When the "Lost" finale airs on Sunday, May 23rd, the episode will run from 9 to 11:30 p.m. The overrun will air instead of the local news, with the "Jimmy Kimmel Live: Aloha to Lost" post-finale special remaining at 11:30 p.m. ABC is expected to announce the plan on tonight's episode of Kimmel.

Executive producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof just completed post-production on the finale -- titled "The End" -- on Monday night. Both sent out identical Tweets: "We're done. Amen."

The supersizing of the finale is the latest adjustment to what might as well be called "The 'Lost' Weekend." ABC is airing an "enhanced" (pop-ups) version of the show's original two-hour pilot on May 22. On Sunday there's a two-hour retrospective titled "Lost: The Final Journey," followed by the finale and Kimmel post-show. Son of a bitch!!!!! I have to work at 10:30pm that night. FRAK!!!! I'll miss the last 20 minutes of it.:cuss:

KingPriest2
05-05-2010, 12:43 AM
To me the biggest "nugget" of this episode came at the VERY end. When the sub sinks, there appears to be a bit of a letdown on the face of Flocke (as if he was expecting to be freed). Claire says "they're all dead?" Flocke says, "no" grabs the gun and leaves stating that he's going "to finish what he started." I think this means he thinks all of the people on the sub died but he's realized that Sayid did not kill Desmond, so he's off to the well to finish him off. Thanks to Yid's heroics, Jack and crew know he's still alive too so they'll be on their way there as well. Flocke is in for a big surprise when he finds out that not all of the crew on the sub (the important ones anyway) did not die. Richard and Ben are still out there as well. I would assume the ultimate betrayal will come when Claire turns on Flocke when he needs her help.

He knew what was happening. He is on his way to kill widmore. Desmond is not a canidate Jack and them Have no idea desmond is there.

Guru
05-05-2010, 12:46 AM
I took it to mean that he knew that some of them survived the sub sinking.

Buck
05-05-2010, 01:02 AM
Wowowowowowowow
Posted via Mobile Device

Dartgod
05-05-2010, 07:49 AM
He knew what was happening. He is on his way to kill widmore. Desmond is not a canidate Jack and them Have no idea desmond is there.
Yes they do. Sayid told them right before he ran off with the bomb.

oldandslow
05-05-2010, 08:29 AM
Best episode in the series, imo.

The tear running down Hurley's cheek caused my wife to literally sob and she is not even a huge fan of the show.

Wow.

cookster50
05-05-2010, 08:33 AM
The tear running down Hurley's cheek caused my wife to literally sob and she is not even a huge fan of the show.

I farted during that scene.

Mr. Plow
05-05-2010, 08:45 AM
Best episode in the series, imo.

The tear running down Hurley's cheek caused my wife to literally sob and she is not even a huge fan of the show.

Wow.


I told my wife before the episode that I'd read that one of the main characters dies tonight....I wasn't sure who. When they showed Sun/Jin under water, holding hands until their final breath, my wife cried like a little girl who skinned her knee.

KingPriest2
05-05-2010, 09:08 AM
Yes they do. Sayid told them right before he ran off with the bomb.

He did?

Mr. Plow
05-05-2010, 09:11 AM
He did?


Yeah. He told Jack that Desmond was in a well and that he hadn't killed him the way Flocke wanted him to. He also said that because Flocke wanted him dead it meant he must be important to stopping him and that Jack would need him.

Jack asked him why he was telling him that, Sayid said something along the lines of "Because it's up to you" and ran off with the bomb.

Dayze
05-05-2010, 09:16 AM
the visual of Sun/Jin holding hands until the end was moving; reminded me of when Charlie died.

what a great show.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2010, 10:52 AM
Another great episode, but they changed their schedule: Originally, this episode was supposed to run after the Jacob/MIB episode.

Maybe they decided it would be better to continue the story and not give away the secrets of the island, Jacob & MIB until just before the finale.

The Rick
05-05-2010, 11:46 AM
Another great episode, but they changed their schedule: Originally, this episode was supposed to run after the Jacob/MIB episode.

Maybe they decided it would be better to continue the story and not give away the secrets of the island, Jacob & MIB until just before the finale.

Is that why they didn't do the whole "Previously on LOST..." bit at the beginning?

I've kind of grown accustomed to using those not only as a refresher, but more importantly, as the key to what the writers wanted us to take from the last episode.

Huffmeister
05-05-2010, 11:49 AM
Where are Richard and Ben? I remember that they were with Jack and Hurley's group when the Black Rock blew up, but what happened after that? Did they storm off on their own? I honestly can't remember.

Chiefnj2
05-05-2010, 12:07 PM
Weak move by Sun not telling Jin to save himself so he can raise their baby.

Can Claire at least pretend she's pregnant for a minute while wearing the huge belly prop. How hard is it to try to sit down or get up from a seat with a little bit of a struggle?

When did Sayid turn from being half a zombie back to the original Sayid? Did Desmond get through to him?

rad
05-05-2010, 12:07 PM
They stormed off on their own to blow up the plane...or destroy it somehow.

SithCeNtZ
05-05-2010, 12:16 PM
When did Sayid turn from being half a zombie back to the original Sayid? Did Desmond get through to him?

Character logic has not been a strong suit for the show this season. If you start asking these questions the entire season sort of falls apart.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2010, 12:34 PM
When did Sayid turn from being half a zombie back to the original Sayid? Did Desmond get through to him?

I'd imagine the answer to that is "Yes". I'm not sure it's been necessary to show that onscreen since we've seen it with Desmond, Hurley, Libby and Charlie.

It's kind of like a "I think you all get the picture" kind of a deal.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2010, 12:46 PM
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/04/lost-producer-finale-explained-.html

I get the feeling that most of us will be disappointed in the end...

-------------------------------------------------------------

The producers have also revealed that they built several new sets just for the finale, and that followers may left with more questions than they might expect - "We're trying to end lost in a way that feels 'Lost'-ian and fair and will generate a tremendous amount of theorizing."

Deberg_1990
05-05-2010, 12:52 PM
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/04/lost-producer-finale-explained-.html

I get the feeling that most of us will be disappointed in the end...

-------------------------------------------------------------

The producers have also revealed that they built several new sets just for the finale, and that followers may left with more questions than they might expect - "We're trying to end lost in a way that feels 'Lost'-ian and fair and will generate a tremendous amount of theorizing."

Thats BS and a copout.....they owe it to the fans to wrap this up right and without too many questions.

But yea, i can already see how this is going to play out.

They are going to end up pissing everyone off by having too "ambigiuous" an endiing. Like the Sopranos did.

BigRedChief
05-05-2010, 12:53 PM
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/04/lost-producer-finale-explained-.html

I get the feeling that most of us will be disappointed in the end...

-------------------------------------------------------------

The producers have also revealed that they built several new sets just for the finale, and that followers may left with more questions than they might expect - "We're trying to end lost in a way that feels 'Lost'-ian and fair and will generate a tremendous amount of theorizing."Yeah I was very disappointed in the fade to black ending of the Sopranos, this will probably top that left in a lurch feeling.

Baby Lee
05-05-2010, 12:55 PM
I'd imagine the answer to that is "Yes". I'm not sure it's been necessary to show that onscreen since we've seen it with Desmond, Hurley, Libby and Charlie.

It's kind of like a "I think you all get the picture" kind of a deal.

Sayid's long story has been people telling him he's bad and him believing it. Now Desmond intones that he's capable of good and he's trying that hat on.

Chiefnj2
05-05-2010, 01:00 PM
I'd imagine the answer to that is "Yes". I'm not sure it's been necessary to show that onscreen since we've seen it with Desmond, Hurley, Libby and Charlie.

It's kind of like a "I think you all get the picture" kind of a deal.

For years the "sickness" was a big deal on the show. There were shots people had to take, it infected Rouseau's shipmates, etc. It was a big deal a few weeks ago when Atilla the Hun and John Lennon put Sayid in the temple pool and he came back to life. I think the fans are owed some type of explanation of the alleged sickness and how Desmond (it appears) was able to reverse it.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2010, 01:09 PM
Yeah I was very disappointed in the fade to black ending of the Sopranos, this will probably top that left in a lurch feeling.

I liked the ending of the Sopranos for many reasons.

First, they couldn't just kill him off. The character has far too much value to the network. He could reappear in 10 years or 20 years back on HBO or in feature films. He's an icon and killing him didn't make sense from a financial standpoint.

I liked the ending because it could be seen in many different ways: Was he killed? (No). What was he looking for? Is this the way he views each day, constantly on the lookout and looking over his shoulder? Why the abrupt fade to black? Did he just stop worrying? It could be interpreted in so many ways.

But Lost is different. If they spent more than 100 episodes to lead to where we are right now without explaining what the Island is, who Jacob & the MIB are, what their roles are/were, if people that die on the island are truly dead, etc., it'll be a major, major disappointment.

Huffmeister
05-05-2010, 01:20 PM
I liked the ending because it could be seen in many different ways: Was he killed? (No). What was he looking for? Is this the way he views each day, constantly on the lookout and looking over his shoulder? Why the abrupt fade to black? Did he just stop worrying? It could be interpreted in so many ways.
Here's an interpretation: The writer(s) didn't know how to end it, so he used the "leave it up to the audience's imagination" ploy. It was a total cop out. I could **** in a box and have it be interpreted in several different ways. Doesn't make it a good ending.

SithCeNtZ
05-05-2010, 01:24 PM
Cheer up lost fans, here is Angelina Jolie and Juliet going NSFW (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/731524/elizabeth_mitchell_juliet_from_lost_and_angelina_jolie/)

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2010, 01:25 PM
Here's an interpretation: The writer(s) didn't know how to end it, so he used the "leave it up to the audience's imagination" ploy. It was a total cop out. I could **** in a box and have it be interpreted in several different ways. Doesn't make it a good ending.

Nope. HBO and David Chase are far too smart to just say "Oh, we don't know how to end the series, so let's just fade to black".

It was intentional.

Buck
05-05-2010, 01:52 PM
Another great episode, but they changed their schedule: Originally, this episode was supposed to run after the Jacob/MIB episode.

Maybe they decided it would be better to continue the story and not give away the secrets of the island, Jacob & MIB until just before the finale.

When did you hear that? I saw an episode listing aroun the time "Recon" aired that had it in the current order.

For years the "sickness" was a big deal on the show. There were shots people had to take, it infected Rouseau's shipmates, etc. It was a big deal a few weeks ago when Atilla the Hun and John Lennon put Sayid in the temple pool and he came back to life. I think the fans are owed some type of explanation of the alleged sickness and how Desmond (it appears) was able to reverse it.

IMO the sickness was something fake made up by DHARMA or someone else to scare whoever was pushing the button into staying in the hatch and keep pushing it. Why did you never see the Others shooting themselves with meds? Because there was no sickness. And it's pretty clear that Danielle was fairly insane.

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2010, 01:57 PM
When did you hear that? I saw an episode listing aroun the time "Recon" aired that had it in the current order.

More than a month ago by several sources. That episode is now set to air next week, May 11th but it had been scheduled for quite a while to air May 4th.

I'm pretty sure it had to do with all of the filming they had done in addition to lengthening the finale by 30 minutes (actually with commercials, only 20).

Buck
05-05-2010, 02:00 PM
More than a month ago by several sources. That episode is now set to air next week, May 11th but it had been scheduled for quite a while to air May 4th.

I'm pretty sure it had to do with all of the filming they had done in addition to lengthening the finale by 30 minutes (actually with commercials, only 20).

Also this episode felt like a direct continuation with the last one so maybe that's another reason why they switched it.

Chiefnj2
05-05-2010, 02:11 PM
IMO the sickness was something fake made up by DHARMA or someone else to scare whoever was pushing the button into staying in the hatch and keep pushing it. Why did you never see the Others shooting themselves with meds? Because there was no sickness. And it's pretty clear that Danielle was fairly insane.

I disagree that the sickness is "fake". Atilla the Hun told Jack that Sayid had the sickness. Rouseau's shipmates acted semi-possessed (like Sayid a few weeks ago). I don't think Dharma was necessarily on the up-and-up with it, but it seems like a real thing.

Buck
05-05-2010, 02:19 PM
Thats BS and a copout.....they owe it to the fans to wrap this up right and without too many questions.

But yea, i can already see how this is going to play out.

They are going to end up pissing everyone off by having too "ambigiuous" an endiing. Like the Sopranos did.

No they don't. They don't owe us anything. This show is their baby and they can do whatever they want with it. They've known what this show was going to be ever since "White Rabbit" aired in season 1.

You chose to come along for the ride, don't be mad when they don't answer every single thing.

Buck
05-05-2010, 02:21 PM
I disagree that the sickness is "fake". Atilla the Hun told Jack that Sayid had the sickness. Rouseau's shipmates acted semi-possessed (like Sayid a few weeks ago). I don't think Dharma was necessarily on the up-and-up with it, but it seems like a real thing.

Well then it's a different sickness because why didn't they just give Sayid or Claire a shot like the ones they had in the hatch?

Deberg_1990
05-05-2010, 02:29 PM
No they don't. They don't owe us anything. This show is their baby and they can do whatever they want with it. They've known what this show was going to be ever since "White Rabbit" aired in season 1.

You chose to come along for the ride, don't be mad when they don't answer every single thing.


OK, but without the loyal fans, they wouldnt have lasted 6 episodes.

Buck
05-05-2010, 02:33 PM
OK, but without the loyal fans, they wouldnt have lasted 6 episodes.

True, but I'm in the group of people that think the writers/directors/producers have done such an excellent job so far I put my full tryst on them and believe that they will not dissapoint.

Shag
05-05-2010, 03:34 PM
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/04/lost-producer-finale-explained-.html

I get the feeling that most of us will be disappointed in the end...

-------------------------------------------------------------

The producers have also revealed that they built several new sets just for the finale, and that followers may left with more questions than they might expect - "We're trying to end lost in a way that feels 'Lost'-ian and fair and will generate a tremendous amount of theorizing."

I've had a feeling they were going to leave a lot of questions unanswered at the end of the show. I'd be very surprised if a lot of people aren't disappointed with the finale - I just can't see it living up to the hype of the show, and the expectations of its fans.

arrowheadnation
05-05-2010, 03:51 PM
One thing that is cool is that it's almost like they're ending the whole shebang with a full length motion picture. What would have been cooler is if they would have offered it in movie theaters as well as on TV that night.

Baby Lee
05-05-2010, 04:54 PM
Here's an interpretation: The writer(s) didn't know how to end it, so he used the "leave it up to the audience's imagination" ploy. It was a total cop out. I could **** in a box and have it be interpreted in several different ways. Doesn't make it a good ending.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6527086&postcount=4337

Like I said earlier, the best aspect of the ending is that it leaves us not knowing. It placed us in Tony's shoes for all time. We can revisit him any time we want 'wonder what T's up to these days.' It changes the saga from a collection of stories to a real life being lived [or not lived any more] somewhere out there in the Jersey plains.

Guru
05-05-2010, 05:15 PM
Nope. If you are ending your show end it without leaving people up in the air. It just kills it for me when writers do that crap. A conclusion needs to be just that, a conclusion.

teedubya
05-05-2010, 05:15 PM
Saw this on another site:
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/05/abc-expands-lost-finale-by-extra-halfhour.html

ABC expands 'Lost' finale by extra half-hour!

Exclu: There's more "Lost" left than you think.

T

Sweet!! More commercials!!

DaneMcCloud
05-05-2010, 05:28 PM
Sweet!! More commercials!!


20 minutes of programming, 10 minutes of commercials

Buck
05-05-2010, 05:57 PM
20 minutes of programming, 10 minutes of commercials

If it goes by the norm, then it should be 22 extra minutes of LOST and 8 minutes of commercials.

PhillyChiefFan
05-05-2010, 06:26 PM
I told my wife before the episode that I'd read that one of the main characters dies tonight....I wasn't sure who. When they showed Sun/Jin under water, holding hands until their final breath, my wife cried like a little girl who skinned her knee.

and by "my wife" you mean you, of course :D

Buck
05-05-2010, 06:30 PM
and by "my wife" you mean you, of course :D

ROFL

Mr. Plow
05-05-2010, 08:07 PM
and by "my wife" you mean you, of course :D

My cry is more like a teenage girl that just found out she is pregnant.

noa
05-05-2010, 10:24 PM
Did anyone else catch that when Sayid was taking the bomb in the submarine, he said to Jack "You're the one, go save Desmond."

Guru
05-05-2010, 10:39 PM
Did anyone else catch that when Sayid was taking the bomb in the submarine, he said to Jack "You're the one, go save Desmond."I heard "You're the one" or something to that effect. I didn't hear "go save Desmond" though.

noa
05-05-2010, 10:52 PM
Sorry, I was paraphrasing with the "go save Desmond part," but Sayid, who has been apparently under Flocke's spell, and may be privy to something by virtue of mind melding (not seriously but something like that) told Jack he's the one.

Mr Luzcious
05-06-2010, 01:45 AM
Did anyone else catch that when Sayid was taking the bomb in the submarine, he said to Jack "You're the one, go save Desmond."

I'm pretty sure he was just saying that Jack had to be the one to go get Desmond, since Sayid was about to blow up.

PhillyChiefFan
05-06-2010, 07:09 AM
My cry is more like a teenage girl that just found out she is pregnant.

ROFL

tymania
05-06-2010, 08:35 AM
there is a facedown about to happen I think.. the ultimate final stare off the Locke and jack.. should be interesting, i think Jack will die, some way or another, right after he realizes he had stopped Flocke.

Mr. Plow
05-06-2010, 08:36 AM
I'm pretty sure he was just saying that Jack had to be the one to go get Desmond, since Sayid was about to blow up.


I took it as Jack was the one to replace Jacob as the title of the episode was "The Candidate". Of course, with this show, it could have meant a bunch of stuff.

tymania
05-06-2010, 08:39 AM
I took it as Jack was the one to replace Jacob as the title of the episode was "The Candidate". Of course, with this show, it could have meant a bunch of stuff.

i think the title of the show was meant for Locke in the flash sideways... he was a candidate for the new surgery Jack wanted to try... but i suppose the title could of had a double meaning..

Mr. Plow
05-06-2010, 08:48 AM
How many episodes left before the finale? 3?

Chiefnj2
05-06-2010, 09:16 AM
i think the title of the show was meant for Locke in the flash sideways... he was a candidate for the new surgery Jack wanted to try... but i suppose the title could of had a double meaning..

I think everything has a double meaning at this point. Well, at least until the island life ends and the alt time line takes over (IMO).

tymania
05-06-2010, 09:53 AM
How many episodes left before the finale? 3?

2 before the finale i think...

Guru
05-11-2010, 04:35 AM
hmmmmm

Buck
05-11-2010, 04:57 AM
w00t

tymania
05-11-2010, 07:56 AM
So what are the predictions for tonight? Does Whidmore come back and finally battle the MIB? Does Jack come to stop him? How do you think they will “conquer” MIB once and for all?

I think Desmond is the only one that can stop him…how I am not sure though… maybe by dragging MIB into a Electromagnetic field!?!

tomahawk kid
05-11-2010, 08:19 AM
So what are the predictions for tonight? Does Whidmore come back and finally battle the MIB? Does Jack come to stop him? How do you think they will “conquer” MIB once and for all?

I think Desmond is the only one that can stop him…how I am not sure though… maybe by dragging MIB into a Electromagnetic field!?!

I thought I read that tonight is almost like a "throw away" episode telling Jacob and the MIBs back stories.

Anyone else hear that?

tymania
05-11-2010, 08:21 AM
I thought I read that tonight is almost like a "throw away" episode telling Jacob and the MIBs back stories.

Anyone else hear that?

that would be interesting.. but at this point i hope they dont spend an entire episode on it

BigRedChief
05-11-2010, 08:21 AM
I thought I read that tonight is almost like a "throw away" episode telling Jacob and the MIBs back stories.

Anyone else hear that?3 episodes left and they do a throwaway episode?

Mr. Plow
05-11-2010, 08:25 AM
I'm looking forward to the Jacob/MIB back story. Hopefully will explain quite a bit.

Baby Lee
05-11-2010, 08:26 AM
I thought I read that tonight is almost like a "throw away" episode telling Jacob and the MIBs back stories.

Anyone else hear that?

How the fuck do you get 'throwaway?' Has someone actually seen it and characterized it as such? It could be throwaway, but it seems to me that Jacob and MIBs' back stories could be a rich vein to explain A LOT.

arrowheadnation
05-11-2010, 09:12 AM
I don't know how this could be considered "throwaway." It should basically explain why they're on the island....that's what we've been asking for 6 freakin years.

Mr. Plow
05-11-2010, 09:54 AM
I don't know how this could be considered "throwaway." It should basically explain why they're on the island....that's what we've been asking for 6 freakin years.


I'm hoping this is the episode that brings it all together.

DaneMcCloud
05-11-2010, 10:19 AM
I'm hoping this is the episode that brings it all together.

They were originally going to air this episode last week. Supposedly, it's going to fill in all of the remaining mysteries of the show, which is why there was no preview last week.

tymania
05-11-2010, 10:22 AM
They were originally going to air this episode last week. Supposedly, it's going to fill in all of the remaining mysteries of the show, which is why there was no preview last week.

im sure they wont fill all the mysteries but the major ones i hope they do.. I am really looking forward to this episode, i hope its not a let down. I wouldnt think it would be, especially with only two episodes till the finale

DaneMcCloud
05-11-2010, 10:25 AM
im sure they wont fill all the mysteries but the major ones i hope they do.. I am really looking forward to this episode, i hope its not a let down. I wouldnt think it would be, especially with only two episodes till the finale

At the Paly Festival back in March, the producers said that between Richard's episode and this episode "Across the Sea", most of the mysteries of the island would be revealed.

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 10:27 AM
At the Paly Festival back in March, the producers said that between Richard's episode and this episode "Across the Sea", most of the mysteries of the island would be revealed.

Lets hope this episode is a lot better than Richard's episode.

tymania
05-11-2010, 10:33 AM
Lets hope this episode is a lot better than Richard's episode.

yeah i hope there isnt any hopeless romance like there was in the Richard episode...

tymania
05-11-2010, 10:39 AM
Do you guys think we will find out who the little kid is, that MIB keeps seeing in the Jungle, tonight?

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 10:41 AM
Tonight's episode, "Across the Sea," focuses on Jacob and the Man In Black. When were these guys first conceived?
Lindelof: We had to start talking about the overall mythology of the island in greater detail in the cracks between the first and second seasons, before our characters went down into the hatch. That conversation basically kicked out into the other major arc of the second season. Which was: Who are the Others? Who are these other people on the island, and who was their leader? And who was he receiving his instructions from? By the time the show got into its third season, we started to hear references to this character, Jacob. And I think it's safe to say that those conversations started then.

Do you think some fans get disappointed when they find out that everything wasn't plotted out from the first episode?
Cuse: I think the answer is, once we announced the end date, I think a lot of those concerns went away. I can't imagine that there are many authors that are able to, basically, conceive something entirely beforehand. We feel strongly that the show would be worse if we were just marching forward. The creative process is not like a situation where you get struck by a single lightning bolt. You have ongoing discoveries and there's ongoing creative revelations. Yes, it's really helpful to be marching toward a specific destination, but, along the way, you must allow yourself room for your ideas to blossom, take root, and grow. I think that's how we approached the show: We had a rough idea of certain things, a specific idea about other things.

DaneMcCloud
05-11-2010, 10:44 AM
Lets hope this episode is a lot better than Richard's episode.

Huh?

I thought Richard's episode was one of the best directed and acted in the entire 6 year history of the show.

I still believe that Richard thinks they're in Hell, contrary to the producer's original claims that the Island wasn't hell or purgatory. The script itself tells us that it's purgatory.

As to the other mysteries, hopefully they'll be revealed tonight.

Mr. Plow
05-11-2010, 10:50 AM
They were originally going to air this episode last week. Supposedly, it's going to fill in all of the remaining mysteries of the show, which is why there was no preview last week.

Man I hope so. I've really been looking forward to this episode for the last week.

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 10:53 AM
Huh?

I thought Richard's episode was one of the best directed and acted in the entire 6 year history of the show.

I still believe that Richard thinks they're in Hell, contrary to the producer's original claims that the Island wasn't hell or purgatory. The script itself tells us that it's purgatory.

As to the other mysteries, hopefully they'll be revealed tonight.

Well acted, horribly written. They couldn't do better than a poor peasant trying to save a family member and accidentally killing the wealthy person in power? That's been done a million times. The reveal of the Black Rock ending up in the jungle and the destruction of the statue was lame beyond belief. A big wave? That could have been revealed years ago and not given anything away.

Mr. Plow
05-11-2010, 10:59 AM
Lets hope this episode is a lot better than Richard's episode.


I liked that episode.

Red Brooklyn
05-11-2010, 11:04 AM
Me too. Definately in my top 5 favs of the season. And I thought it was superbly written. Maybe the plot wasn't the most original, but the excecution was near flawless in my view.

tomahawk kid
05-11-2010, 11:22 AM
How the **** do you get 'throwaway?' Has someone actually seen it and characterized it as such? It could be throwaway, but it seems to me that Jacob and MIBs' back stories could be a rich vein to explain A LOT.

Holy cow.

I meant "throw away" in the context of not continuing last week's story line.

Lighten up Francis.

DaneMcCloud
05-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Well acted, horribly written. They couldn't do better than a poor peasant trying to save a family member and accidentally killing the wealthy person in power? That's been done a million times. The reveal of the Black Rock ending up in the jungle and the destruction of the statue was lame beyond belief. A big wave? That could have been revealed years ago and not given anything away.

I think it goes back to Lost having a "Universal Theme".

As far as the Black Rock landing where it did, I assumed it was Jacob that put it there.

Baby Lee
05-11-2010, 01:11 PM
Holy cow.

I meant "throw away" in the context of not continuing last week's story line.

Lighten up Francis.

To be fair, that's the most tangential reading of 'throw away' I think I've ever seen. :thumb:

And I really wasn't angry, just bemused that one would reference a highly anticipated 'origin story' as, what could be read as, 'a bunch of time wasting bullshit nothing.'

tomahawk kid
05-11-2010, 01:29 PM
To be fair, that's the most tangential reading of 'throw away' I think I've ever seen. :thumb:

And I really wasn't angry, just bemused that one would reference a highly anticipated 'origin story' as, what could be read as, 'a bunch of time wasting bullshit nothing.'

This post is a throw away.

:)

Guru
05-11-2010, 03:10 PM
I thought I read that tonight is almost like a "throw away" episode telling Jacob and the MIBs back stories.

Anyone else hear that?yes

that would be interesting.. but at this point i hope they dont spend an entire episode on it
It will be the entire ep
3 episodes left and they do a throwaway episode?
I wouldn't call it a throw away ep though. should be pretty revealing.

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 03:59 PM
I wouldn't call it a throw away ep though. should be pretty revealing.

I don't think there will be much middle ground on this episode. Either you'll love the reveals, or you will hate them and say "that's it"?

Red Brooklyn
05-11-2010, 06:32 PM
Sooooo close. Time to pre-game.

Buck
05-11-2010, 06:36 PM
I thought I read that tonight is almost like a "throw away" episode telling Jacob and the MIBs back stories.

Anyone else hear that?

The fuck is wrong with you?

This has the potential to be the best episode ever.

Mr. Plow
05-11-2010, 06:37 PM
Sooooo close. Time to pre-game.


Buck is warming up the lube.

Buck
05-11-2010, 06:41 PM
Guys I've been avoiding this thread like the plague.

I think Richards episode explained that smokey isn't a security system for the island, but that the island is a security system for smokey.

I'm sure that was discussed, but that episode explained that.

Buck
05-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Buck is warming up the lube.

I still har another 4 hours and 17 minutes. Plus I'm dvr'ing it because I'll be watching the Padres game. So 5 hours plus.

Mr. Plow
05-11-2010, 09:00 PM
I still har another 4 hours and 17 minutes. Plus I'm dvr'ing it because I'll be watching the Padres game. So 5 hours plus.


Warm lube is better than cold lube.

Guru
05-11-2010, 09:05 PM
Buck, do not read this....

Let me get this straight, mother was the smoke monster(hence the fact she had to be killed by stabbing her in the back before she spoke a single word) before brother became the smoke monster by jacobs hand, unknowing it would happen that way. If that is the case, then why did the light go out when brother came out of the cave?

It is about tonights ep.

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 09:07 PM
Buck, do not read this....

Let me get this straight, mother was the smoke monster(hence the fact she had to be killed by stabbing her in the back before she spoke a single word) before brother became the smoke monster by jacobs hand, unknowing it would happen that way. If that is the case, then why did the light go out when brother came out of the cave?

It is about tonights ep.

I didn't think she was. I thought the episode was pretty lame and really didn't explain a whole lot. You have a few answers like the origin of smokey and who "Adam and Eve" are, but not much about the real history, the rules, etc.

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:09 PM
Buck, do not read this....

Let me get this straight, mother was the smoke monster(hence the fact she had to be killed by stabbing her in the back before she spoke a single word) before brother became the smoke monster by jacobs hand, unknowing it would happen that way. If that is the case, then why did the light go out when brother came out of the cave?

It is about tonights ep.

Its no longer a spoiler

Why do you think that she was the smoke monster?

tomahawk kid
05-11-2010, 09:16 PM
Here's my question -

How is the MIB's skeleton in the cave when he's obviously still running around the island?

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:18 PM
Here's my question -

How is the MIB's skeleton in the cave when he's obviously still running around the island?

The reason why MIBs skeleton is still there is the smoke monster took his form

Guru
05-11-2010, 09:22 PM
Its no longer a spoiler

Why do you think that she was the smoke monster?

Granted.

Because how else could she have taken out that entire camp of others?

Guru
05-11-2010, 09:24 PM
I didn't think she was. I thought the episode was pretty lame and really didn't explain a whole lot. You have a few answers like the origin of smokey and who "Adam and Eve" are, but not much about the real history, the rules, etc.

I really liked it but do see your point in that it didn't really explain the rules at all. Other than his brother making up the rules for the game he found. I sure would have liked it if they had at least told us what year it was.

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:30 PM
Granted.

Because how else could she have taken out that entire camp of others?

But how do we know it was her?

Guru
05-11-2010, 09:31 PM
But how do we know it was her?
We don't. But for me it is a safe assumption. Especially with the whole stabbing her in the back before she says a single word and her saying "thank you" to him.

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:31 PM
I really liked it but do see your point in that it didn't really explain the rules at all. Other than his brother making up the rules for the game he found. I sure would have liked it if they had at least told us what year it was.

I heard something about the rules but I dont know if it would be considered a spoiler or not Its something that darlton said

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:32 PM
We don't. But for me it is a safe assumption. Especially with the whole stabbing her in the back before she says a single word and her saying "thank you" to him.

I would give you that its a safe assumption

Guru
05-11-2010, 09:34 PM
I heard something about the rules but I dont know if it would be considered a spoiler or not Its something that darlton said

I'll be rewatching it to see if there is any actual discussion of the rules of the island.

Guru
05-11-2010, 09:34 PM
I would give you that its a safe assumption

As I said, it is just my theory.

What is your theory on it?

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:38 PM
I'll be rewatching it to see if there is any actual discussion of the rules of the island.

there wasnt really any

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:38 PM
As I said, it is just my theory.

What is your theory on it?

Im not sure yet I have to rewatch it again

Shag
05-11-2010, 09:41 PM
Definitely seems feasible that she was smokey. I never took the "don't let him say a word to you" thing as being literal, but rather to prevent him (Flocke, at the time) from talking you down, or prevent the killer from hesitating.

I'm curious if the knife MIB used was the same knife that Dogan gave Sayid. I can't remember exactly what that one looked like, but I seem to recall it being a long dagger...

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 09:51 PM
Definitely seems feasible that she was smokey. I never took the "don't let him say a word to you" thing as being literal, but rather to prevent him (Flocke, at the time) from talking you down, or prevent the killer from hesitating.

I'm curious if the knife MIB used was the same knife that Dogan gave Sayid. I can't remember exactly what that one looked like, but I seem to recall it being a long dagger...

Ftom, what Ive been reading on other boards is people feel that she was not the smoke monster and when Jacob threw mib into the light it released smokey

Guru
05-11-2010, 09:58 PM
What boards? And how do they explain her wiping out an entire village?

irishjayhawk
05-11-2010, 10:00 PM
Ftom, what Ive been reading on other boards is people feel that she was not the smoke monster and when Jacob threw mib into the light it released smokey

I thought that was obvious...

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 10:00 PM
What boards? And how do they explain her wiping out an entire village?

Other discussion boards Im also looking at the Lost facebook

I havent seen anything in regards to the village

Shag
05-11-2010, 10:02 PM
Ftom, what Ive been reading on other boards is people feel that she was not the smoke monster and when Jacob threw mib into the light it released smokey

I'm not sure MIB and smokey are two different things, and I kind of think smokey spawned from MIB somehow when he went into the light. Jacob supposedly couldn't kill MIB, so even though the light technically would have killed him, I'm not sure that would be allowed. Secondly, I believe the mother said that going into the light wouldn't kill you, but instead cause something much worse than death.

irishjayhawk
05-11-2010, 10:03 PM
Guys I've been avoiding this thread like the plague.

I think Richards episode explained that smokey isn't a security system for the island, but that the island is a security system for smokey.

I'm sure that was discussed, but that episode explained that.

I never got that feeling from THAT episode but it's pretty much in stone after this one.

What gave it away in the Richard ep?

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 10:06 PM
I just have to accept the fact that the show really isn't going to have good answers for all the questions they created. They had a great premise and general idea, but do a piss poor job of wrapping it up.

Didn't Mother say they couldn't hurt or kill each other? Why was Jacob allowed to toss MIB into the light?

Smokey comes back and takes over his own body to communicate with Jacob? Bleh.

irishjayhawk
05-11-2010, 10:10 PM
I just have to accept the fact that the show really isn't going to have good answers for all the questions they created. They had a great premise and general idea, but do a piss poor job of wrapping it up.

Didn't Mother say they couldn't hurt or kill each other? Why was Jacob allowed to toss MIB into the light?

Smokey comes back and takes over his own body to communicate with Jacob? Bleh.

My thought was a bit less than that. I thought that had this episode aired in, say, season 4 or 5, it would have been better. 3 nights left and they burn one of them on a background of the good/evil story they've woven quite rapidly (sporadically, haphazardly, etc) since, basically, season 4.

If you look at LOST as a whole, it's clear that Seasons 1-3 tell a vastly different story than seasons 4-6. 4-6 are hugely compelling to me because of the things they're attempting to put in play but they just don't align with 1-3. And an episode like tonight's where the players from 1-3 aren't seen except in flashback form, ruins much of the momentum.

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 10:18 PM
How did Jacob learn that he had to draw in other candidates and build a lighthouse, etc? His mom freaked when she heard about MIB and the light. She died within 24 hours. She must have had a good set of blueprints.

What's the deal with the light? If MIB goes into the light he turns into Smokey. If he builds the donkey wheel all hell will break loose, yet Linus and others turned the wheel and ended up in Afghanistan or something. Evil was not unleashed, they didn't turn into particles.

Creating more questions at this late stage just sucks.

Mr. Plow
05-11-2010, 10:21 PM
I heard something about the rules but I dont know if it would be considered a spoiler or not Its something that darlton said

Spoiler or not....would you PM me what you heard? The damn rules are driving me crazy.

arrowheadnation
05-11-2010, 10:31 PM
Smokey comes back and takes over his own body to communicate with Jacob? Bleh.

No....Smokey takes the form of Jacob's brother to fuck with him. Jacob's brother is dead. Just like in current times. Smokey has taken the form of John Locke to fuck with Jack and co. John Locke is dead.

Third Eye
05-11-2010, 10:35 PM
Found this the other day while looking for info on rather or not the show Defying Gravity might ever return. Granted it is hearsay, but it flies in the face of the claims of Lost's creators that they had a plan from the beginning.

Speaking of Lost, here’s a fun bit he had to say about the show and how it relates to how he went into putting Defying Gravity together:

“I love the show [Lost], and Damon [Lindelof] and Carlton [Cuse]. I did a lot with Grey’s Anatomy during the first couple of years of Grey’s, and that first year of Grey’s was the first year of Lost, and I did a lot of dinners with ABC buyers with those two guys and Shonda Rhimes from Grey’s. Carlton is a really bright and funny guy, and he gets up, and the first question out of the foreign buyers’ mouths is ‘where’s it going to go? Do you know where it’s going to go?’, and he said ‘I haven’t a clue.’ And then he sits down across from me at the dinner table, and I remember saying ‘Damon, come on, that’s bullshit, right? I mean, you know where it’s going to go.’ And he says, ‘Jim, I haven’t a clue. I’m four episodes out; that’s all I know.’

“And I just thought to myself, y’know, that’s really dangerous. And then when I got into doing this show, I said I don’t want to do that; I don’t want to be in that position. First of all, I’d have ulcers if I did that, which would just be crazy, and I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night. So I went in pretty much knowing where it was going to go.”

http://www.cliqueclack.com/tv/2009/10/29/how-defying-gravity-would-have-progressed-straight-from-the-creator/

Chiefnj2
05-11-2010, 10:39 PM
No....Smokey takes the form of Jacob's brother to **** with him. Jacob's brother is dead. Just like in current times. Smokey has taken the form of John Locke to **** with Jack and co. John Locke is dead.

They sit around playing games, watching ships sail in. They are obviously playing a game with some unknown rules. He's doing more than effing with him. Plus, I don't think Smokey took the form of Jacob's brother. I think the brother took the form of Smokey. All smokey wants to do is leave the island and go home - just like the kid/MIB.

arrowheadnation
05-11-2010, 10:46 PM
They sit around playing games, watching ships sail in. They are obviously playing a game with some unknown rules. He's doing more than effing with him. Plus, I don't think Smokey took the form of Jacob's brother. I think the brother took the form of Smokey. All smokey wants to do is leave the island and go home - just like the kid/MIB.

No no no....that's what this whole episode was about. Smokey doesn't have a "home" to go to. It/He's lying to them. He's always told people that to play on their emotions. Anybody marooned on a desert island wants to go home. It/he's pure evil that wants to be unleashed on the world. The brother, who wanted to go home (because he is human and actually came from another place) is dead.

Guru
05-11-2010, 10:56 PM
They sit around playing games, watching ships sail in. They are obviously playing a game with some unknown rules. He's doing more than effing with him. Plus, I don't think Smokey took the form of Jacob's brother. I think the brother took the form of Smokey. All smokey wants to do is leave the island and go home - just like the kid/MIB.That is what smokey does. He takes the form of dead people. I think when Jacob threw his brother to the ground and hit his head in the stream, that killed him.

Now, on the subject that the mother said they couldn't kill each other. I have no idea.

The only way smokey can take the form of the brother is for the brother to have died though. At least according to everything they have told us the last couple years.

KingPriest2
05-11-2010, 11:36 PM
Spoiler or not....would you PM me what you heard? The damn rules are driving me crazy.

ok

Guru
05-11-2010, 11:59 PM
Spoiler or not....would you PM me what you heard? The damn rules are driving me crazy.

okIf you don't mind.:)

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 12:31 AM
No no no....that's what this whole episode was about. Smokey doesn't have a "home" to go to. It/He's lying to them. He's always told people that to play on their emotions. Anybody marooned on a desert island wants to go home. It/he's pure evil that wants to be unleashed on the world. The brother, who wanted to go home (because he is human and actually came from another place) is dead.

Clearly THIS.

Jacob's brother was dead as soon as he was thrown into the "Light".

The Smoke Monster took his form (just as it did John Locke).

But he's still the Monster in the Cave.

Something is keeping him on the Island. Whether it's Jacob or the Candidates or the electromagnetism, someone doesn't want him to leave.

I do think it's a drag that they didn't reveal his name.

But Jacob's brother died years ago (maybe a millenia ago).

Buck
05-12-2010, 01:36 AM
I never got that feeling from THAT episode but it's pretty much in stone after this one.

What gave it away in the Richard ep?

The whole "Cork" comment that he made.

I don't think the island is hell like he said, but its like hell, and smokey is like the devil, and he doesn't want to let the so called devil out of so called hell.

To be honest with you, my buddies and I are huge lost fans and we pretty much were smoking weed one night discussing it and that came into my head, and I used that line Jacob said from Ab Aeterno. It wasn't set in stone until tonight.

Buck
05-12-2010, 01:42 AM
No....Smokey takes the form of Jacob's brother to fuck with him. Jacob's brother is dead. Just like in current times. Smokey has taken the form of John Locke to fuck with Jack and co. John Locke is dead.

No no no....that's what this whole episode was about. Smokey doesn't have a "home" to go to. It/He's lying to them. He's always told people that to play on their emotions. Anybody marooned on a desert island wants to go home. It/he's pure evil that wants to be unleashed on the world. The brother, who wanted to go home (because he is human and actually came from another place) is dead.

That is what smokey does. He takes the form of dead people. I think when Jacob threw his brother to the ground and hit his head in the stream, that killed him.

Now, on the subject that the mother said they couldn't kill each other. I have no idea.

The only way smokey can take the form of the brother is for the brother to have died though. At least according to everything they have told us the last couple years.

Clearly THIS.

Jacob's brother was dead as soon as he was thrown into the "Light".

The Smoke Monster took his form (just as it did John Locke).

But he's still the Monster in the Cave.

Something is keeping him on the Island. Whether it's Jacob or the Candidates or the electromagnetism, someone doesn't want him to leave.

I do think it's a drag that they didn't reveal his name.

But Jacob's brother died years ago (maybe a millenia ago).

Reading these quotes sparked something in my head.

The reason why Smokey couldn't kill Jacob is because Jacob created him or let him out, more specifically.


Okay, I couldn't understand wtf the real mom said when she was giving Jacob's brother a name. Did anyone catch that?

Buck
05-12-2010, 02:11 AM
Here's something going off of Guru's theory. Its not exactly the same, but reading his theory made me think of this. (By the way, why are they bringing up more questions?)

The Mother has to be some kind of special force who was able to kill a whole village, not to mention dragging an unconscious body up a shoddy ladder and then filling that entire hole up with Dirt and Rocks. So I agree with him that she has a little bit of Smokey in her too (at least some kind of badass creature).

Before she gave the wine to Jacob and essentially her power (note how she didn't age over 30 years), she said to the MIB, "I'm sorry," and hit his head on the wall. The next we see the MIB he is laying unconscious on the ground, so maybe she also gave him her power, but her evil power. Like she had good and evil in her, and gave Jacob the good and MIB the evil.

Remember when Jacob refused to drink the wine at first saying she always wanted MIB to the protector? She responded with something along the lines of, "You are the one who needs to protect it. I see that now, and soon you will see it too." I think that has to do with the fact that she now knows that MIB will turn evil.

Guru
05-12-2010, 02:29 AM
definitely plausible with this series.

Baby Lee
05-12-2010, 05:04 AM
Reading these quotes sparked something in my head.

The reason why Smokey couldn't kill Jacob is because Jacob created him or let him out, more specifically.


Okay, I couldn't understand wtf the real mom said when she was giving Jacob's brother a name. Did anyone catch that?

Something like 'I don't have another name' or 'I only came up with one name.'

Chiefnj2
05-12-2010, 06:30 AM
Clearly THIS.

Jacob's brother was dead as soon as he was thrown into the "Light".

The Smoke Monster took his form (just as it did John Locke).

But he's still the Monster in the Cave.

Something is keeping him on the Island. Whether it's Jacob or the Candidates or the electromagnetism, someone doesn't want him to leave.

I do think it's a drag that they didn't reveal his name.

But Jacob's brother died years ago (maybe a millenia ago).

There is nothing to indicate that the smoke monster existed before MIB was thrown into the cave.

BigRedChief
05-12-2010, 07:38 AM
This is BS. Why bring up more questions with only 1 more episode before the final? What did we learn? Orgins? So what? How does that matter to the current two story/time lines? You answer one question and give us two more. It was just a background episode. A filler with only one episode left before the final.

You could have done this episode eariler in the season without an issue. You are suppose to doing major reveals. We have Sayid and and our love birds dying off, we are going forward fast now to the conclusion and you stop us dead in our tracks with a background episode? We are going to get really screwed on some answers to Lost mystery's.:mad:

Baby Lee
05-12-2010, 07:53 AM
First off, when Jacob tell's 'mother' "but now I'm all you have,' just prior to communion, I swear they dubbed in Ben Linus' voice. Not really, but the actor delivered it just like Ben's petulant scolds of years past.

Jacob twice strikes out in anger with his fists, 'not-Locke' once with a dagger. More nature versus science?

Jacob tells his brother goodbye, but not a word for 'mother.'

The thing that struck me as the most shoddy, was when 'not-Locke' discovered the light. Looked and looked and looked, and found it behind a wall in a below ground room apparently a few feet from their camp.

Sooooo, . . . . who built the wall? And why didn't they notice this immense light they were walling off?

Chiefnj2
05-12-2010, 08:16 AM
If Jacob's mom told him he could never leave the island, then why was he all around the world touching the candidates at various points in their life? Did he use the donkey wheel?

tymania
05-12-2010, 08:35 AM
last nights episode definitely created more questions.. They should have shown this episode earlier this season, and spent a little more time elaborating throughout the season. Very good episode, just wish it would have answered more questions than it created... The 2 1/2 hr finale better be a dandy!

Mr. Plow
05-12-2010, 08:38 AM
The 2 1/2 hr finale better be a dandy!


Honestly, I have this feeling that no matter how in depth they go, it won't answer everything....and I think that's the way it's intended to be.

tymania
05-12-2010, 08:47 AM
Honestly, I have this feeling that no matter how in depth they go, it won't answer everything....and I think that's the way it's intended to be.

No doubt about it they are going to leave questions unanswered.. i have made my peace with that.. but really to create new questions that wont be answered is kind of a slap in the face... But what can you do, im just along for the ride like everyone else

tymania
05-12-2010, 08:53 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D38eBGiDXzQ/S8WN-GE46CI/AAAAAAAAD2M/9fpCjKm1kSc/s400/Screen+shot+2010-02-17+at+6.48.05+AM.png

SO the little Kid that Flocke kept on seeing in the woods was Jacob as a little boy.. interesting…..

Mr. Plow
05-12-2010, 08:56 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D38eBGiDXzQ/S8WN-GE46CI/AAAAAAAAD2M/9fpCjKm1kSc/s400/Screen+shot+2010-02-17+at+6.48.05+AM.png

SO the little Kid that Flocke kept on seeing in the woods was Jacob as a little boy.. interesting…..


Damnit....I didn't pay attention to that.

BigRedChief
05-12-2010, 09:56 AM
If Jacob's mom told him he could never leave the island, then why was he all around the world touching the candidates at various points in their life? Did he use the donkey wheel?yes, that had better be explained.

Baby Lee
05-12-2010, 10:06 AM
I gotta go there, when Pellegrino [Jacob] tries to emote, I can't tell if he's doing;

A George Bush imitation
An imitation of Will Ferrell imitating bush
A bemused chimpanzee.

tymania
05-12-2010, 10:18 AM
I gotta go there, when Pellegrino [Jacob] tries to emote, I can't tell if he's doing;

A George Bush imitation
An imitation of Will Ferrell imitating bush
A bemused chimpanzee.

huh?

Buck
05-12-2010, 10:31 AM
If Jacob's mom told him he could never leave the island, then why was he all around the world touching the candidates at various points in their life? Did he use the donkey wheel?

Clearly he doesn't believe everything she said.

keg in kc
05-12-2010, 10:41 AM
I really didn't like that one very much, at least not until the last 2 minutes or so when they tied it back to the bodies in the cave (very cool). It almost felt like it should have been a post script to the series. While I was watching it seemed like afterthought, or maybe a hiccup. That is to say, there's been a certain sense of motion building toward the series' end, but last night was sort of a terminus interruptus. I know it's supposed to provide new insight into the "mysteries of the island" and all that jazz, but it left me feeling like I'd watched an hour of filler. I think not having the cast at large part of it until the very end was part of that, especially after the deaths of the previous week (which I'd just watched). Anyway, it didn't work for me.

Chiefnj2
05-12-2010, 10:58 AM
Unless they are going to interrupt the final two episodes with backstory, I guess we never get any explanations about the whole Egyptian mythology - statue, temples, etc.

tymania
05-12-2010, 11:01 AM
Unless they are going to interrupt the final two episodes with backstory, I guess we never get any explanations about the whole Egyptian mythology - statue, temples, etc.

they really need another Season to finish this off right.. or a LOST event where they have Origins of Lost episodes, or LOST explained Episodes or something

Buck
05-12-2010, 11:02 AM
Unless they are going to interrupt the final two episodes with backstory, I guess we never get any explanations about the whole Egyptian mythology - statue, temples, etc.

That's what I'm worried about. I have faith in the writers that they'll tie in what happened las tnigjt to these next 2 eps.

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 11:18 AM
I think you guys are trying to read too much into this episode. It was pretty clear to me what happened.

1. Jacob & the MIB's birth mother came with a group that had learned about the power the Island held and wanted to capture it (just like so many men before and after, including the Dharma Group).

2. Jacob & MIB's adoptive mother was at one time a part of a group that wanted to possess the power as well, but somewhere along the way, she was convinced to kill everyone in her group and become the Protector of the Island.

3. After spending who knows how long protecting the island (a decade? A millenia?), she sees an "out" in Claudia's boys. She saw that the MIB was "special" in that he could speak to dead people.

4. The MIB wanted to go "home" to be a part of normal civilization. He didn't want to escape the island to destroy mankind, just to be a part of the "real" world.

5. By killing his mother, the MIB released her from the duties as the Island Protector, thus the "Thank You". Jacob, not fully understanding the meaning behind his new duties and unable to reconcile the murder of his mother, drags the MIB to the "Source" and murders him.

6. When the MIB's dead body floats in the cave and makes contact with "The Source", the Smoke Monster is unleashed and capable of appearing as any dead human it comes in contact with, thus taking human form.

7. Jacob finally realized his mission is to keep the Smoke Monster contained on the Island because if it's unleashed on the world, it will destroy it.

--------------------------------------------------------

I was satisfied enough with the "Origin" episode, although I was a little disappointed that "Adam & Eve" were Jacob's adoptive mother and brother. That made the "Adam & Eve" thing a little creepy and for the most part, invalidates the meaning of "Adam & Eve", as they were not the first on the island by any stretch. The more I think about it, it seems tacked on and weak.

I don't think we'll ever find out who built the statue of Taweret or who painted all of the Egyptian hieroglyphics but we're to assume that at one point, Egyptian came to the island in order to capture the "Source" of the Island's power and quickly realized that they could not conceive children, hence the statue.

I'm sure there will be more "mysteries" that will be left to the imagination, which will frustrate anyone that wanted solid, concrete answers.

Buck
05-12-2010, 11:26 AM
2. Jacob & MIB's adoptive mother was at one time a part of a group that wanted to possess the power as well, but somewhere along the way, she was convinced to kill everyone in her group and become the Protector of the Island.

Thats pretty assumptive, but it makes sense. I agree with everything else you said.

Chiefnj2
05-12-2010, 11:45 AM
No no no....that's what this whole episode was about. Smokey doesn't have a "home" to go to. It/He's lying to them. He's always told people that to play on their emotions. Anybody marooned on a desert island wants to go home. It/he's pure evil that wants to be unleashed on the world. The brother, who wanted to go home (because he is human and actually came from another place) is dead.

I don't totally agree with this. When FLocke took Kate to the beach a few episodes ago, FLocke confided that "my mother was crazy" and a long time ago he had a mother like everyone else and he has problems that he is still working through because of it. That is certainly MIB.

patteeu
05-12-2010, 11:58 AM
This is BS. Why bring up more questions with only 1 more episode before the final? What did we learn? Orgins? So what? How does that matter to the current two story/time lines? You answer one question and give us two more. It was just a background episode. A filler with only one episode left before the final.

You could have done this episode eariler in the season without an issue. You are suppose to doing major reveals. We have Sayid and and our love birds dying off, we are going forward fast now to the conclusion and you stop us dead in our tracks with a background episode? We are going to get really screwed on some answers to Lost mystery's.:mad:

I really didn't like that one very much, at least not until the last 2 minutes or so when they tied it back to the bodies in the cave (very cool). It almost felt like it should have been a post script to the series. While I was watching it seemed like afterthought, or maybe a hiccup. That is to say, there's been a certain sense of motion building toward the series' end, but last night was sort of a terminus interruptus. I know it's supposed to provide new insight into the "mysteries of the island" and all that jazz, but it left me feeling like I'd watched an hour of filler. I think not having the cast at large part of it until the very end was part of that, especially after the deaths of the previous week (which I'd just watched). Anyway, it didn't work for me.

The term you gentlemen are searching desperately for is "throwaway". ;)

BigRedChief
05-12-2010, 12:11 PM
Okay Dane you think the whole point of the Island is to keep MIB on it? Because MIB will take over the world if he's allowed to leave the Island?

Richard didn't age, Jacob and MIB's adoptive mom didn't age. Whats the tie in?

Fish
05-12-2010, 12:16 PM
Unless they are going to interrupt the final two episodes with backstory, I guess we never get any explanations about the whole Egyptian mythology - statue, temples, etc.

I'm still stuck with a nagging feeling that this will come back into play. I can even see a chance that the Mother is/was actually Tawaret. Tawaret was the goddess of birth and fertility(obviously a running theme on the island). Tawaret was seen as having both good and evil qualities. Known as one who protected against evil by restraining it(Protecting the island).

And that Smokey is actually either Apep or Set, who were both the God of Evil(Apep first, then Set took over the role. They were in a sense viewed as the same person). Apep/Set was always identified as a snake or serpent(Smokey resemblence), and known as the god of storms. Also seen as the deification of darkness, and the enemy of light(black and white stones). Apep/Set resided in the underworld(the cave from which the light sprung). The Temple of Set is known for rebirth and immortality(The temple pool). Apep was known as the eater of souls, and the dead also needed protection against him(Smokey possessing the dead). Apep could only be defeated(not necessarily killed) by fettering(restricting him to the island), or by stabbing him with a knife(Dogon's knife).

I don't know, I could be way off here, but this is what was floating around my brain when watching this latest episode..

The trouble I'm having with it though is how in the world does Jacob and MIB come into play with that theory...

tymania
05-12-2010, 12:36 PM
I'm still stuck with a nagging feeling that this will come back into play. I can even see a chance that the Mother is/was actually Tawaret. Tawaret was the goddess of birth and fertility(obviously a running theme on the island). Tawaret was seen as having both good and evil qualities. Known as one who protected against evil by restraining it(Protecting the island).

And that Smokey is actually either Apep or Set, who were both the God of Evil(Apep first, then Set took over the role. They were in a sense viewed as the same person). Apep/Set was always identified as a snake or serpent(Smokey resemblence), and known as the god of storms. Also seen as the deification of darkness, and the enemy of light(black and white stones). Apep/Set resided in the underworld(the cave from which the light sprung). The Temple of Set is known for rebirth and immortality(The temple pool). Apep was known as the eater of souls, and the dead also needed protection against him(Smokey possessing the dead). Apep could only be defeated(not necessarily killed) by fettering(restricting him to the island), or by stabbing him with a knife(Dogon's knife).

I don't know, I could be way off here, but this is what was floating around my brain when watching this latest episode..

The trouble I'm having with it though is how in the world does Jacob and MIB come into play with that theory...

I like your theory.. it makes sense. If i had to guess this is a part of the mythology behind LOST, and i am sure it is mixed in with other Mythologies

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Thats pretty assumptive, but it makes sense. I agree with everything else you said.

Well, all of her people are gone.

Apparently, she killed all of MIB's people as well.

I doubt that her shipmates died a natural death.

AustinChief
05-12-2010, 04:08 PM
Clearly THIS.

Jacob's brother was dead as soon as he was thrown into the "Light".

The Smoke Monster took his form (just as it did John Locke).

But he's still the Monster in the Cave.

Something is keeping him on the Island. Whether it's Jacob or the Candidates or the electromagnetism, someone doesn't want him to leave.

I do think it's a drag that they didn't reveal his name.

But Jacob's brother died years ago (maybe a millenia ago).
Nope, I don't think that was clear at all.

The episode built up how "special" mib was and how he just "knew" certain things...

THEN we are told that going into the light won't kill you but will do something worse to you...

THEN mib goes into the light causing him to lose his corporeal form and become smokey

I also think the same thing happened to "mother" at some earlier point... which is how she knew something "worse" would happen and also explains her ability to wipe out an entire village

If the smoke monster is a seperate entity that just took mib's form... then the show has lost its burst and the writers shoulda quit while they were ahead.

Buck
05-12-2010, 04:34 PM
Well, all of her people are gone.

Apparently, she killed all of MIB's people as well.

I doubt that her shipmates died a natural death.

You are implying she came over on a ship.

Did she say this in the episode? Am I missing something?

Buck
05-12-2010, 04:37 PM
OOOOOH F******* JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING

You know how MIB could see his Dead Mom?

Well which of the Losties can see dead people? Thats right, Hurley.

I think that might mean since he is special he'll end up taking MIB's place.

I sort of think Jack is like Jacob too, Jacobs mom didn't believe in him at first, just like Jacks dad. But in the end they finally believed in them. So he'll take Jacobs spot.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2008/10/15/lost__1224096915_6216-1.jpg

Shag
05-12-2010, 05:47 PM
Nope, I don't think that was clear at all.

The episode built up how "special" mib was and how he just "knew" certain things...

THEN we are told that going into the light won't kill you but will do something worse to you...

THEN mib goes into the light causing him to lose his corporeal form and become smokey

I also think the same thing happened to "mother" at some earlier point... which is how she knew something "worse" would happen and also explains her ability to wipe out an entire village

If the smoke monster is a seperate entity that just took mib's form... then the show has lost its burst and the writers shoulda quit while they were ahead.

This is what I was saying earlier, and I'm with you for the most part...

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 07:30 PM
Nope, I don't think that was clear at all.

The episode built up how "special" mib was and how he just "knew" certain things...

THEN we are told that going into the light won't kill you but will do something worse to you...

THEN mib goes into the light causing him to lose his corporeal form and become smokey

I also think the same thing happened to "mother" at some earlier point... which is how she knew something "worse" would happen and also explains her ability to wipe out an entire village

If the smoke monster is a seperate entity that just took mib's form... then the show has lost its burst and the writers shoulda quit while they were ahead.

But if the Mother could also turn into the Smoke Monster, why would she want to protect the light in the cave? Why wouldn't she want to be unleashed on the world like the Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster?

Plus, the Mother obviously didn't lose her corporeal form, so that theory is out the window.

When she died, she decomposed, as did Jacob's twin brother.

I think the Smoke Monster is some sort of demon that needs a dead body to inhabit in order to leave the Island. Otherwise, he's trapped forever.

Buck
05-12-2010, 07:33 PM
But if the Mother could also turn into the Smoke Monster, why would she want to protect the light in the cave? Why wouldn't she want to be unleashed on the world like the Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster?

Plus, the Mother obviously didn't lose her corporeal form, so that theory is out the window.

When she died, she decomposed, as did Jacob's twin brother.

If somebody can reasonably explain to me how the Village was so fucked up and the well was completely filled up with dirt and rocks, then I will listen.

Until then I am going with she was a smokey, or some sort of similar creature.

---

OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIII

Just thought of something.

Remember how she said you don't die if you go in the light, something far worse happense to you? Well the only way she could know is if she either went in the light orrrrrrrr, she saw someone go in the light. Maybe there was another smokey on the island, and when MIB went in, he replaced that smokey, as Jacob replaced his mother.

I don't think we'll ever find out though.

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 07:35 PM
If somebody can reasonably explain to me how the Village was so fucked up and the well was completely filled up with dirt and rocks, then I will listen.

Until then I am going with she was a smokey, or some sort of similar creature.

She couldn't be the/a Smoke Monster because she was flesh and blood when the MIB killed her.

The Smoke Monster we've seen (MIB/Flocke) isn't flesh and blood, so that theory is out the window.

Plus, we've never seen the Smoke Monster exhibit supernatural strength and power.

Just the power to kill.

Shag
05-12-2010, 07:37 PM
But if the Mother could also turn into the Smoke Monster, why would she want to protect the light in the cave? Why wouldn't she want to be unleashed on the world like the Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster?

Plus, the Mother obviously didn't lose her corporeal form.

When she died, she decomposed, as did the MIB.

If smokey is essentially the MIB in a different form, then it makes sense that it/he would maintain his pre-existing desire to get off the island.

I'm not 100% sold on the mother being the (or A) smoke monster, though I don't think it's implausible. You do make a good point about the body, though.

The two things that keep me from thinking that MIB is dead and smokey is simply using his form:

- the mother claimed that Jacob and MIB couldn't kill ("hurt", but kill is implied) each other
- the mother claiming that by going into the light, you wouldn't die, but instead suffer a worse fate

I think smokey was somehow spawned from the essense (soul?) of MIB when he went into the light...

Buck
05-12-2010, 07:37 PM
She couldn't be the/a Smoke Monster because she was flesh and blood when the MIB killed her.

The Smoke Monster we've seen (MIB/Flocke) isn't flesh and blood, so that theory is out the window.

Plus, we've never seen the Smoke Monster exhibit supernatural strength and power.

Just the power to kill.

See my edited post.

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 07:42 PM
If smokey is essentially the MIB in a different form, then it makes sense that it/he would maintain his pre-existing desire to get off the island.

I'm not 100% sold on the mother being the (or A) smoke monster, though I don't think it's implausible. You do make a good point about the body, though.

The two things that keep me from thinking that MIB is dead and smokey is simply using his form:

- the mother claimed that Jacob and MIB couldn't kill ("hurt", but kill is implied) each other
- the mother claiming that by going into the light, you wouldn't die, but instead suffer a worse fate

I think smokey was somehow spawned from the essense (soul?) of MIB when he went into the light...

It wouldn't make sense that the Smoke Monster is actually the MIB because if that was the case and he would be maintaining a pre-existing desire, that desire would be completely eradicated by taking the form of John Locke, who's pre-existing desire was to return to the island and never leave.

Shag
05-12-2010, 07:48 PM
It wouldn't make sense that the Smoke Monster is actually the MIB because if that was the case and he would be maintaining a pre-existing desire, that desire would be completely eradicated by taking the form of John Locke, who's pre-existing desire was to return to the island and never leave.

I'm not saying that smokey would take on the desires of whatever form he assumes, but rather the desires of the being that spawned him - the MIB. I think the ability to take other forms is just a tool of smokey (a disguise), but doesn't change who/what the smoke monster is at its nature.

If the MIB wasn't part of the origin of the smoke monster, then why bother showing that scene? It has to be important that the smoke monster emerged at the exact same time that MIB went into the light. There also has to be significance to the "fate worse than death" comment about going into the light, IMHO.

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 07:54 PM
I'm not saying that smokey would take on the desires of whatever form he assumes, but rather the desires of the being that spawned him - the MIB. I think the ability to take other forms is just a tool of smokey (a disguise), but doesn't change who/what the smoke monster is at its nature.

If the MIB wasn't part of the origin of the smoke monster, then why bother showing that scene? It has to be important that the smoke monster emerged at the exact same time that MIB went into the light, IMHO.

I think the scene was shown for two reasons:

1. To reveal the consequences of entering the light in the cave.
2. To reveal that Jacob's twin brother was actually dead and NOT the Smoke Monster.

The Smoke Monster is able to take the form of any dead human that it thinks will benefit it in its attempt to escape the island.

First, it used the identity of Jacob's dead brother but after hundreds (maybe thousands) of years, it figures out that the MIB's identity does him no good. So, he hatches a plot (as we saw in Season Five) to where he can take the identity of John Locke, knowing that people trust and will follow him, thus helping the Smoke Monster to get off the island.

I think the writers made it a point to confuse the viewer as to the Smoke Monster's real identity by having the MIB want to leave the island as well.

patteeu
05-12-2010, 07:57 PM
OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIII

Just thought of something.

Remember how she said you don't die if you go in the light, something far worse happense to you? Well the only way she could know is if she either went in the light orrrrrrrr, she saw someone go in the light. Maybe there was another smokey on the island, and when MIB went in, he replaced that smokey, as Jacob replaced his mother.

I don't think we'll ever find out though.

If your theory is right, we could possibly find out if another lostie goes down in the light in one of the last couple of episodes and ends up replacing FLocke as the new smokey.

AustinChief
05-12-2010, 08:27 PM
But if the Mother could also turn into the Smoke Monster, why would she want to protect the light in the cave? Why wouldn't she want to be unleashed on the world like the Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster?

Plus, the Mother obviously didn't lose her corporeal form, so that theory is out the window.

When she died, she decomposed, as did Jacob's twin brother.

I think the Smoke Monster is some sort of demon that needs a dead body to inhabit in order to leave the Island. Otherwise, he's trapped forever.

I think the smoke monster is just another form of the person.. so becoming smokey doesn't change who you are or your motivations just what form you take. Which is why she could be a smokey dedicated to guarding while mib is still dedicated to his childhood wish to leave.

If you notice, smokey appears as himself later in time... the mom could be just appearing as herself the entire episode... (except off camera when she levels a village and fills a bunch of holes in a few hours)

And smokey doesn't inhabit bodies , he just takes the form of them.

AustinChief
05-12-2010, 08:33 PM
I think the scene was shown for two reasons:

1. To reveal the consequences of entering the light in the cave.
2. To reveal that Jacob's twin brother was actually dead and NOT the Smoke Monster.

The Smoke Monster is able to take the form of any dead human that it thinks will benefit it in its attempt to escape the island.

First, it used the identity of Jacob's dead brother but after hundreds (maybe thousands) of years, it figures out that the MIB's identity does him no good. So, he hatches a plot (as we saw in Season Five) to where he can take the identity of John Locke, knowing that people trust and will follow him, thus helping the Smoke Monster to get off the island.

I think the writers made it a point to confuse the viewer as to the Smoke Monster's real identity by having the MIB want to leave the island as well.

... but this falls apart given that smokey has specifically stated he ONCE WAS FLESH AND BLOOD MAN and he also mentions his crazy mother... it seems pretty clear to me that the writers are trying to get across that the light turned mib into smokey.

Third Eye
05-12-2010, 08:42 PM
... but this falls apart given that smokey has specifically stated he ONCE WAS FLESH AND BLOOD MAN and he also mentions his crazy mother... it seems pretty clear to me that the writers are trying to get across that the light turned mib into smokey.

The problem with this is he lies to get what he needs. You can't take anything Flocke has said as gospel.

Chiefnj2
05-12-2010, 08:58 PM
... but this falls apart given that smokey has specifically stated he ONCE WAS FLESH AND BLOOD MAN and he also mentions his crazy mother... it seems pretty clear to me that the writers are trying to get across that the light turned mib into smokey.

Exactly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYtblIpPQY

Guru
05-12-2010, 09:07 PM
She couldn't be the/a Smoke Monster because she was flesh and blood when the MIB killed her.

The Smoke Monster we've seen (MIB/Flocke) isn't flesh and blood, so that theory is out the window.

Plus, we've never seen the Smoke Monster exhibit supernatural strength and power.

Just the power to kill.

Then why would Richard tell Sayid to stab Flocke in the back before he says a single word? I still think it plays that mother was killed by being stabbed in the back before she said a single word. Maybe if smokey is killed in such a way the form it is currently in becomes its permanent form. Maybe, upon being killed, smokey transfers back to the cave.

this is LOST so nothing is beyond the realm of possibility.

Brock
05-12-2010, 09:15 PM
Well, Dogen told him to do that, not Richard, and Dogen had been trying to kill Sayid to begin with.

Guru
05-12-2010, 09:33 PM
Well, Dogen told him to do that, not Richard, and Dogen had been trying to kill Sayid to begin with.

I couldn't remember. Regardless though, why introduce that statement if there wasn't something to it.

Chiefnj2
05-12-2010, 09:50 PM
I couldn't remember. Regardless though, why introduce that statement if there wasn't something to it.

Wasn't Richard told to kill Jacob in the same manner? Yet (as far as we know) Jacob was alive at that point in time?

I don't think it's necessaril Smokey specific.

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 10:24 PM
I think the smoke monster is just another form of the person.. so becoming smokey doesn't change who you are or your motivations just what form you take. Which is why she could be a smokey dedicated to guarding while mib is still dedicated to his childhood wish to leave.

If you notice, smokey appears as himself later in time... the mom could be just appearing as herself the entire episode... (except off camera when she levels a village and fills a bunch of holes in a few hours)

And smokey doesn't inhabit bodies , he just takes the form of them.

But they were both corporeal.

When people shoot at Flocke or try to stab him, nothing happens. But MIB was slammed into a stone and died. The Mother was stabbed through the back and died. Both of their corpses lie in the cave.

I don't think it's possible to be a living, breathing human being AND be the Smoke Monster.

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 10:27 PM
... but this falls apart given that smokey has specifically stated he ONCE WAS FLESH AND BLOOD MAN and he also mentions his crazy mother... it seems pretty clear to me that the writers are trying to get across that the light turned mib into smokey.

And think they are trying to confuse everyone.

Stating that he was once a man with a crazy mother doesn't necessarily mean that he's referring to the MIB and his mother.

It could just be more lies to keep Claire on his side.

keg in kc
05-12-2010, 10:33 PM
They could go really nutso and have jacob go into the cave himself, and have him be both the smoke monster and the protector of the island (like his mother?) Then the dark side of him seeing a projection of his young self is something like a symbol of the humanity he's lost. Maybe one couldn't kill the other because he's both, and that's somehow proscribed.

DaneMcCloud
05-12-2010, 10:49 PM
They could go really nutso and have jacob go into the cave himself, and have him be both the smoke monster and the protector of the island (like his mother?) Then the dark side of him seeing a projection of his young self is something like a symbol of the humanity he's lost. Maybe one couldn't kill the other because he's both, and that's somehow proscribed.

There may be something to that idea.

John Locke was supposedly told by Jacob to move the island. John never wanted to leave the island, as he loved it and thought he understood it. Once he moved the island, he was sent back to civilization, where Ben Linus killed him. Once dead, the Smoke Monster assumed his identity.

Now, was it the Smoke Monster acting as Jacob that told Locke to move the island, thus condemning him to death so that the Smoke Monster could assume his identity or was it the Smoke Monster himself pretending to be Jacob?

I have a feeling we'll never know.

patteeu
05-13-2010, 12:49 AM
Then why would Richard tell Sayid to stab Flocke in the back before he says a single word? I still think it plays that mother was killed by being stabbed in the back before she said a single word. Maybe if smokey is killed in such a way the form it is currently in becomes its permanent form. Maybe, upon being killed, smokey transfers back to the cave.

this is LOST so nothing is beyond the realm of possibility.

I'm pretty sure he didn't specify the back.

My assumption is that he said to do it without a single word just because smokey is a bad mofo if you give him a chance to react, but you could be right. :shrug:

patteeu
05-13-2010, 12:52 AM
There may be something to that idea.

John Locke was supposedly told by Jacob to move the island. John never wanted to leave the island, as he loved it and thought he understood it. Once he moved the island, he was sent back to civilization, where Ben Linus killed him. Once dead, the Smoke Monster assumed his identity.

Now, was it the Smoke Monster acting as Jacob that told Locke to move the island, thus condemning him to death so that the Smoke Monster could assume his identity or was it the Smoke Monster himself pretending to be Jacob?

I have a feeling we'll never know.

I guess the concept of "moving the island" and how anyone ever figured out how to do it is pretty likely to be left unexplained at this point. :(