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noa
05-13-2010, 12:59 AM
I'm on board with the idea that Jacob's brother is dead and smokey just took his form. Smokey can't kill Jacob because Jacob is the island's protector. Something about that prevents smokey from being able to kill Jacob or any of the candidates (remember when smokey saw dead Jacob, dead Jacob told him he couldn't kill Sawyer). Although I don't know how to reconcile that with his bomb killing Sun and Jin. Maybe the fact that he didn't make the bomb, and he used trickery to kill them like he had to do to kill Jacob.

It's not that smokey is MIB and MIB can't kill Jacob because they can't harm each other. "Mother" originally said they couldn't hurt each other, but we saw pretty clearly that Jacob could be the crap out of his brother and (in my mind) killed him. So that was just something "mother" said to allay their fears when MIB as a boy asked if they could hurt each other. I think she wanted to build up in their minds that other people are bad and dangerous and are a threat, and they (the two boys) are different, and they have a special role in life. Saying you can't hurt each other feeds that.

But who knows, I could be wrong about that. Maybe she did somehow make it so they can't hurt each other, and when Jacob tried to kill MIB, he violated that, and triggered bad consequences. Still, I lean in the direction of MIB being dead and smokey being a separate entity who just took his form.

I'm not sure about who leveled the village. I'm not buying that it was "mother" as smokey because I agree with Dane that smokey is impervious to physical attacks and "mother" clearly was not. But the writers definitely made you think it was "mother." So maybe it was "mother," and she is capable of that type of destruction when protecting the island. If your role is to live forever and protect the island and keep people from the light, I'm guessing that comes with some special abilities to help you in your protecting duties. I think if it was "mother," that doesn't necessarily make her smokey.

For the question about how Jacob leaves the island to touch the candidates, I don't see why its so crazy to think that if other people can leave the island (like we've seen), he can, too. He just chooses to come back because he is the protector. And the island can be protected in his absence (or at least smokey can be prevented from leaving), as we've seen evidenced by the fact that smokey is still confined and Jacob is dead. I'm guessing that there are safeguards, like having a candidate present on the island, or maybe Richard Alpert. I have no idea how Jacob knew how to build the lighthouse and watch people's lives and make selections, though. I would like to see that answered, or I would at least to be given some stronger clues than to just be told that he could do it. Because that seems to be something "mother" couldn't do. She had to wait until her replacement came along fortuitously. Jacob is able to identify candidates and bring them to the island.

As for the show not answering questions about Egyptian stuff and other ancient stuff, I don't really care about that. I figure they aren't going to give you concrete answers about every single thing. They just made it clear that whatever has been going on on the island has been happening for ages. We continue to learn about the island's properties, everyone's roles, etc. We can piece things together. I don't feel the need to know the exact specifics of who landed on the island and when and what they did. I think they are showing us enough about the island and its properties without answering all of that in explicit detail.

I expect that when the show is completely over, they are not going to answer every single thing for us, but will give us enough that we can figure out things on our own. Or at least have some solid theories. I'll be happy with that. I think any show like this is tough because you can either leave some questions to be pondered, and disappoint people who wanted everything answered specifically, or you can attempt to answer everything, and disappoint the people who just aren't satisfied with the answers you give them. Personally, I'd rather have some things to think about and theorize about when it's all said and done than to be given answers that may just not be satisfying enough.

I just hope the ending involves more stuff with Desmond and Farraday. Those are my favorite storylines in the show.

BigRedChief
05-13-2010, 07:19 AM
I'm on board with the idea that Jacob's brother is dead and smokey just took his form. Smokey can't kill Jacob because Jacob is the island's protector. Something about that prevents smokey from being able to kill Jacob or any of the candidates (remember when smokey saw dead Jacob, dead Jacob told him he couldn't kill Sawyer). Although I don't know how to reconcile that with his bomb killing Sun and Jin. Maybe the fact that he didn't make the bomb, and he used trickery to kill them like he had to do to kill Jacob.
The candidate could be Sun and Jin's daughter.

I just hope the ending involves more stuff with Desmond and Farraday. Those are my favorite storylines in the show.
Desmond is defintely central to whats happening at the end. Last time we saw him he was in the well that was where the light was. He's a central point in both timelines. Sayid sacrificed himself and told them about how to find Desmond.

tymania
05-13-2010, 08:07 AM
The candidate could be Sun and Jin's daughter.

Desmond is defintely central to whats happening at the end. Last time we saw him he was in the well that was where the light was. He's a central point in both timelines. Sayid sacrificed himself and told them about how to find Desmond.

I was assuming that the well that MIB dug, and was going to put that wheel in was the swan station in present time!? So i am not sure if i agree with the fact that the light is in the well that desmond was in.. but it def could be and they just dont know it..

Chiefnj2
05-13-2010, 08:20 AM
More proof that Austin and I are correct ,from an interview with Cuse and Darlton:

"We wanted to explain why the Man in Black had behaved the way that he does, and to show that like a lot of other characters on the show, he's the victim of very bad parenting. To reduce him to just a supernatural force, as opposed to a person, was not our intent. "Across the Sea" was our attempt to say, "Here's why Jacob feels the way he does about people, why the Man in Black feels the way he does about people," and a bit about their childhood. It's as simple as that and as complex as the themes of the show are."

Shag
05-13-2010, 08:54 AM
I think the scene was shown for two reasons:

1. To reveal the consequences of entering the light in the cave.
2. To reveal that Jacob's twin brother was actually dead and NOT the Smoke Monster.

The Smoke Monster is able to take the form of any dead human that it thinks will benefit it in its attempt to escape the island.

First, it used the identity of Jacob's dead brother but after hundreds (maybe thousands) of years, it figures out that the MIB's identity does him no good. So, he hatches a plot (as we saw in Season Five) to where he can take the identity of John Locke, knowing that people trust and will follow him, thus helping the Smoke Monster to get off the island.

I think the writers made it a point to confuse the viewer as to the Smoke Monster's real identity by having the MIB want to leave the island as well.

What consequences of entering the light? Death? Releasing a smoke monster? How do you reconcile the "fate worse than death" comment by the mother?

I just think it's way too simple to just say the MIB is dead, and the smoke monster just happened to emerge from the cave as he died. Personally, I think that scene becomes almost pointless unless the two are tied together.

Why would the writers want to confuse the view as to smokey's real identity? They were already confused prior to this episode, as no origin story had ever been revealed - it was simply an unexplained "monster" that could take the form of dead bodies on the island. Further confusing that story doesn't add anything, IMHO.

noa
05-13-2010, 10:30 AM
More proof that Austin and I are correct ,from an interview with Cuse and Darlton:

"We wanted to explain why the Man in Black had behaved the way that he does, and to show that like a lot of other characters on the show, he's the victim of very bad parenting. To reduce him to just a supernatural force, as opposed to a person, was not our intent. "Across the Sea" was our attempt to say, "Here's why Jacob feels the way he does about people, why the Man in Black feels the way he does about people," and a bit about their childhood. It's as simple as that and as complex as the themes of the show are."

Interesting. Well, I guess if smokey is MIB, that doesn't really change a whole lot from what I thought before this episode. And the fact that MIB's actual body has been dead for a while is ok because real Locke's actual body has been dead, too. Smokey doesn't actually inhabit their dead bodies, he can just recreate them.

I don't think that episode really showed us why Jacob feels the way he does about people. I don't think they had anything in that episode to give Jacob a reason to believe people are good. He finds out "mother" killed his actual mother and has been lying to him. His brother abandons him. His brother tells him that the other people in the island actually are selfish and greedy and malevolent. His brother then kills "mother." Then he kills his brother. What in that storyline explains why Jacob believes in humanity?

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 10:56 AM
More proof that Austin and I are correct ,from an interview with Cuse and Darlton:

"We wanted to explain why the Man in Black had behaved the way that he does, and to show that like a lot of other characters on the show, he's the victim of very bad parenting. To reduce him to just a supernatural force, as opposed to a person, was not our intent. "Across the Sea" was our attempt to say, "Here's why Jacob feels the way he does about people, why the Man in Black feels the way he does about people," and a bit about their childhood. It's as simple as that and as complex as the themes of the show are."
You guys are absolutely right. To me the episode was showing how MIB was robbed of his human body and turned into Smokey. By Jacob.

There may be something to that idea.

John Locke was supposedly told by Jacob to move the island. John never wanted to leave the island, as he loved it and thought he understood it. Once he moved the island, he was sent back to civilization, where Ben Linus killed him. Once dead, the Smoke Monster assumed his identity.

Now, was it the Smoke Monster acting as Jacob that told Locke to move the island, thus condemning him to death so that the Smoke Monster could assume his identity or was it the Smoke Monster himself pretending to be Jacob?

I have a feeling we'll never know.
I personally don't think there's any doubt that Jacob had nothing to do, and Smokey had everything to do with Locke moving the island. That wasn't Jacob at all.

1. Jacob doesn't get involved.
2. Smokey told us he was using Christian's form.
3. Christian tells Locke to turn the wheel.
4. It's Smokey (as Locke) that tells real Locke (through Richard) that he's going to have to die.

The whole Locke moving the island thing was all part of Smokey's plan. It was all part of the "loophole." The way to kill Jacob.

tymania
05-13-2010, 11:03 AM
Interesting. Well, I guess if smokey is MIB, that doesn't really change a whole lot from what I thought before this episode. And the fact that MIB's actual body has been dead for a while is ok because real Locke's actual body has been dead, too. Smokey doesn't actually inhabit their dead bodies, he can just recreate them.

I don't think that episode really showed us why Jacob feels the way he does about people. I don't think they had anything in that episode to give Jacob a reason to believe people are good. He finds out "mother" killed his actual mother and has been lying to him. His brother abandons him. His brother tells him that the other people in the island actually are selfish and greedy and malevolent. His brother then kills "mother." Then he kills his brother. What in that storyline explains why Jacob believes in humanity?

but smokey cant recreate bodies that have been buried, right?

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 11:31 AM
but smokey cant recreate bodies that have been buried, right?
There's never really been a definate answer to this. However, we've never seen Smokey appear as someone who has been buried. Also, there have been characters in the past that have insisted on buring bodies.

I'm of the mind that, no, Smokey can not take the form of someone who's been buried.

Chiefnj2
05-13-2010, 11:43 AM
I don't think that episode really showed us why Jacob feels the way he does about people. I don't think they had anything in that episode to give Jacob a reason to believe people are good. He finds out "mother" killed his actual mother and has been lying to him. His brother abandons him. His brother tells him that the other people in the island actually are selfish and greedy and malevolent. His brother then kills "mother." Then he kills his brother. What in that storyline explains why Jacob believes in humanity?

I agree, Jacob's character development has been horrible. His "mother" lied to him about everything, yet he decided to believe her about the magical power of the light and evil escaping from it.

They obviously didn't think MIB/Jacob through all that clearly. In an episode years ago (maybe the flashback) Jack said the clothes of Adam and Eve were about 50 years old. It ends up it is more like 2000 years old.

tymania
05-13-2010, 11:52 AM
wheres WALT??? my prediction is he is the corner stone to stopping MIB.. if i remember right didnt walt have a knack for kill things? like in earlier episodes in a flashback didnt he kill birds by making them fly into the window? and then his mom died and his step father didnt want him because he thought he was cursed or something.. and that is how michael ended up with him..
Just some food for thought.. and i thought i read somewhere that Walt was making an appearance this season!? hasnt happened yet..

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 12:15 PM
I would LOVE for Walt to show up again. Sorry for the hyperbole, but nothing would make me happier! :)

However, given last night's revelations, it seems like Desmond will have to be the one to destroy Smokey. That is, if Smokey is to be destroyed. Smokey seems born from the light in the cave, which is (as we know) some kind of electromagnetic energy. And only one character on the show has been able to withstand contact with large amounts of EM energy. Desmond.

Jack might be the new protector, but I think Des will be the giant killer (so to speak).

Mile High Mania
05-13-2010, 12:27 PM
I think Walt plays a part in the final...

Don't forget that many times we've been told (mainly by MIB and Jacob) that things keep happening the same way, history keeps repeating itself... no matter what happens.

So, just as power over the island was moved from Jacob's mom to him... something happened prior to that, and something is about to happen again. I see this ending with another cycle beginning.

And, I don't think it's going to be who we all think.. not Jack, not Hurley... I have no idea and I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised for the most part.

Mile High Mania
05-13-2010, 12:28 PM
I would LOVE for Walt to show up again. Sorry for the hyperbole, but nothing would make me happier! :)

However, given last night's revelations, it seems like Desmond will have to be the one to destroy Smokey. That is, if Smokey is to be destroyed. Smokey seems born from the light in the cave, which is (as we know) some kind of electromagnetic energy. And only one character on the show has been able to withstand contact with large amounts of EM energy. Desmond.

Jack might be the new protector, but I think Des will be the giant killer (so to speak).

And, if that happens ... remember that MIB was 'special' before killing his mother and ultimately becoming Smokey... you might see Desmond become the new Smokey with someone like Sawyer becoming the new Jacob.

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 12:36 PM
IF the MIB was able to keep his identity intact after transforming into the The Smoke Monster, the producers have some explaining to do:

1. What is the "Light"?
2. Why is it dangerous?
3. IF the MIB were to escape the island, why would everything "cease to exist"?
4. Does the MIB KNOW that if he escapes, everything will "cease to exist" or is he only thinking of himself without considering the consequences?
5. Can the Smoke Monster be killed?
6. Why is Jacob allowed to freely come and go from the island to the rest of the world?

At one time, I had faith in the producers that they would adequately reveal most of the mysteries of the island and that those mysteries would make logical sense.

Now, I'm not so sure.

This episode felt "tacked on" and in an effort to stay true to the rest of the series by "not revealing too much", I think they opened a can of worms that really displaces the mythology they've created over the past six years.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 01:26 PM
Good questions, Dane. While I certainly don't have any definative answers, here's my take on it:
1. What is the "Light"??
The light is what we've known it to be for a long time. There are pockets of electro-magnetic energy and exotic matter on the island. This matter gives the island strange and fantastic properities. The light is another representation of that energy. Of course, 2000 years ago folks wouldn't know to call it electro-magnetic energy or exotic matter. They wouldn't understand the science of it. Just like we understand cell phones now, but if we dropped one back in time 2000 year it would seem pretty magical, even mystical to them.
2. Why is it dangerous??
We've seen why it's dangerous. We've seen multiple examples of what it can do. Just look at the hatch. And that's only one tiny example.
3. IF the MIB were to escape the island, why would everything "cease to exist"??
The energy needs to be contained. Smokey is a part of that energy, somehow. If the energy escapes, the world ends. I'm not sure exacly how, but I don't see why it matters. I don't understand the electrical wiring in my house, but I know the basic principle, I flip the switch and the light comes on. I accept that and it's good enough for me. How or why isn't as imporant to me as just knowing that it's true. Or perhaps it's like Jenga. You remove the wrong pivotal piece and the tower falls.
4. Does the MIB KNOW that if he escapes, everything will "cease to exist" or is he only thinking of himself without considering the consequences??
I think he still sees himself as a man. I think he believes that he can leave and nothing bad with happen. He thinks all of it is a lie that Jacob and perhaps "Mother" made up to keep him on the island. So, no, I don't think he's considering the consequences. But he doesn't trust the people with the information, so who can really blame him?
5. Can the Smoke Monster be killed??
Yes.
6. Why is Jacob allowed to freely come and go from the island to the rest of the world?
Why not? There's nothing binding him to the island but choice.

So, there you go. I'm not sure if I'm even remotely right about any of that, but... that's how I see things at this point. Maybe a rewatch of ATS and fruther revolations will change my mind.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 01:27 PM
My previous post was 666. Heh.

Fish
05-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Good questions, Dane. While I certainly don't have any definative answers, here's my take on it:

The light is what we've known it to be for a long time. There are pockets of electro-magnetic energy and dark matter on the island. This matter gives the island strange and fantastic properities.

Dark matter? Where did you get that idea?

Chiefnj2
05-13-2010, 01:44 PM
IF the MIB was able to keep his identity intact after transforming into the The Smoke Monster, the producers have some explaining to do:

1. What is the "Light"?
2. Why is it dangerous?
3. IF the MIB were to escape the island, why would everything "cease to exist"?


1-3 were "answered".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mh6JCN6wQE

from 1:45 to the end. It's not a great answer, but I think it's all you're going to get.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 02:03 PM
Dark matter? Where did you get that idea?
Whoops!

My bad. I meant to write "exotic" matter. Chang references exotic matter in regards to the work being done at The Orchid.

I just typed the wrong thing. I was getting ahead of myself and mixed up "exotic matter" with "the darkness."

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 02:08 PM
Good questions, Dane. While I certainly don't have any definative answers, here's my take on it:

The light is what we've known it to be for a long time. There are pockets of electro-magnetic energy and exotic matter on the island. This matter gives the island strange and fantastic properities. The light is another representation of that energy. Of course, 2000 years ago folks wouldn't know to call it electro-magnetic energy or exotic matter. They wouldn't understand the science of it. Just like we understand cell phones now, but if we dropped one back in time 2000 year it would seem pretty magical, even mystical to them.

We've seen why it's dangerous. We've seen multiple examples of what it can do. Just look at the hatch. And that's only one tiny example.

Dude, no, that's not it.

Watch the clip that Chiefnj linked. The Mother clearly states that "a little bit of this light" exists in ALL men. She also states that men will try to take it but if they try, the light could go out everywhere.

We aren't made of electromagnetic energy.

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 02:08 PM
1-3 were "answered".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mh6JCN6wQE

from 1:45 to the end. It's not a great answer, but I think it's all you're going to get.

If that's all we get, I'm going to be hugely disappointed.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Dude, no, that's not it.

Watch the clip that Chiefnj linked. The Mother clearly states that "a little bit of this light" exists in ALL men. She also states that men will try to take it but if they try, the light could go out everywhere.

We aren't made of electromagnetic energy.
Yeah, I know what she said. But that's what I meant by saying she doesn't fully understand the science of it. Perhaps she thinks it's more magical, or atherial, or mystical than it really is.

Perhaps she thinks she knows what it is, that it's part of every man (probably because of her own exposure to/ experience with it), but I don't think she fully understands what it is. It has amazing properties, and it can be manipulated and perverted by men. She fears that men will try to harness it for themselves or use the properties for evil. This is the same thing Ben feared Widmore wanted with the island.

Again, I'm not saying I'm 100% right about this. I was just offering up one way of looking at it. Either way, I think the point is - this "light" is something special, some unique property and unleashing/uncorking it is bad.

Sort of like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters. Who gives a shit why it's bad. Egon said it's bad, so don't fuck around with it! :D

Mile High Mania
05-13-2010, 02:19 PM
Dude, no, that's not it.

Watch the clip that Chiefnj linked. The Mother clearly states that "a little bit of this light" exists in ALL men. She also states that men will try to take it but if they try, the light could go out everywhere.

We aren't made of electromagnetic energy.

So, has anyone thought about the potential tie in here with Pulp Fiction and the soul of Marcellus Wallace?


http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2008/11/04/435695_2.jpg

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 02:21 PM
:)

Awesome, Mile High.

Well played. I saw someone post that on another board and I thought it hilarious. I'm not sure if it's a conscious reference to Pulp Fiction or not. But it's awesome either way.

Mile High Mania
05-13-2010, 02:22 PM
:)

Awesome, Mile High.

Well played. I saw someone post that on another board and I thought it hilarious. I'm not sure if it's a conscious reference to Pulp Fiction or not. But it's awesome either way.

Dammit .... you did? I thought I was having an original thought.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 02:28 PM
Dammit .... you did? I thought I was having an original thought.
Sorry, man. I didn't mean to harsh your buzz.

But technically, it's still your original thought. You didn't read it elsewhere... so... you just had it around the same time as someone else.

And, regardless, it's still awesome.
:D

Mile High Mania
05-13-2010, 02:31 PM
Sorry, man. I didn't mean to harsh your buzz.

But technically, it's still your original thought. You didn't read it elsewhere... so... you just had it around the same time as someone else.

And, regardless, it's still awesome.
:D

ROFL Thanks...

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 02:42 PM
I saw this on another board as well, and thought it was interesting, to say the least:

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

According to myth, she was Adam's first wife. Got kicked out of the garden and had to live in a cave, after Angels chased her to 'the middle of the sea'. In some folklore, including Roman, she's a witch or a demon, but she's since been redeemed as a modern feminist icon, for defying God and Adam. In her more evil incarnations, she steals and/or kills children. She's said to live in a parallel world. in Jewish folklore, she's tasked with preserving God's 'first light', from when He created the Universe."

Deberg_1990
05-13-2010, 02:48 PM
heh..i havent seen this latest episode...but it seems alot of people are pissed off about it. Heres a funny tweet i just read:


We no longer say 'Jumped the shark.' Now we say 'Floated into the cave of urine and turned into smoke.'


ROFL

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 02:55 PM
heh..i havent seen this latest episode...but it seems alot of people are pissed off about it. Heres a funny tweet i just read:


We no longer say 'Jumped the shark.' Now we say 'Floated into the cave of urine and turned into smoke.'


ROFL
ROFL
Fans are a funny lot. I'd say if moving an island by turning a frozen donkey wheel isn't "jumping the shark" then nothing is. At this point, there's nothing they could possibly do to jump the shark. There aren't even sharks in the water at this point.

teedubya
05-13-2010, 02:57 PM
I have a feeling that some dead person is gonna fuck with Hurley and take him to the Light source.

There is some correlation to MIB and Hurley both being able to see/talk to dead people.

So maybe Hurley also becomes a smoke monster or something?

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 03:06 PM
Maybe.

But that would make me sad. I love Hurley. I'd hate to see him reduced to an evil-ish Smoke Monster.

But, yeah, I wouldn't count out that option.

Baby Lee
05-13-2010, 03:08 PM
Dude, no, that's not it.

Watch the clip that Chiefnj linked. The Mother clearly states that "a little bit of this light" exists in ALL men. She also states that men will try to take it but if they try, the light could go out everywhere.

We aren't made of electromagnetic energy.

Don't know what keeps YOUR atoms assembled, but for us mortals, we certainly are made of EM energy.

teedubya
05-13-2010, 03:10 PM
Maybe.

But that would make me sad. I love Hurley. I'd hate to see him reduced to an evil-ish Smoke Monster.

But, yeah, I wouldn't count out that option.

Well, knowing that Hurley and MIB both speak to dead people is some indication of something... something has to come of it.

Chiefnj2
05-13-2010, 03:10 PM
It would be great if Henry Winkler emerged from the cave.

Baby Lee
05-13-2010, 03:13 PM
Dammit .... you did? I thought I was having an original thought.

I can't recall where I saw it, but some comments section was riffing it hard.

'Jacob needs to call Marcellus Wallace to get his light back'

'So Jacob throws MIB into the creek and yells 'What does Marcellus Wallace look like?!?!'

Baby Lee
05-13-2010, 03:14 PM
It would be great if Henry Winkler emerged from the cave.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4jm6B31HKBw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4jm6B31HKBw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Which reminds me, the same comment's board [thinking about it, probably TwoP] has taken to calling Jacob 'Buster Bluth' because he calls Mother Mother and Brother Brother. ROFL ROFL

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 03:26 PM
Don't know what keeps YOUR atoms assembled, but for us mortals, we certainly are made of EM energy.

There are EM fields around our bodies, not IN our bodies.

And if that's what they're referring to, they need to tell us why having more EM per human would destroy everything.

Baby Lee
05-13-2010, 03:30 PM
There are EM fields around our bodies, not IN our bodies.

And if that's what they're referring to, they need to tell us why having more EM per human would destroy everything.

The EM force is what keeps electrons orbiting nuclei and attracts atoms to other atoms. And the electrons that orbit each and every one of the atoms in your body are fungible with the electrons traveling along the copper in your computer.

Shag
05-13-2010, 03:32 PM
The EM force is what keeps electrons orbiting nuclei and attracts atoms to other atoms. And the electrons that orbit each and every one of the atoms in your body are fungible with the electrons traveling along the copper in your computer.

Nice use of "fungible"...

Fish
05-13-2010, 03:32 PM
Tim Tebow is going to emerge from the Cave of Urine and they're going to end the show with him basking in the light...... then fade to black...

Bank it.......

AustinChief
05-13-2010, 04:05 PM
A few spoilers...

#1 the year the last episode took place....

Either 23 or 43 AD

Regarding MIB's death/Smoke Monster (from interview with actor wo plays Jacob)
After I threw the Man in Black in the pit, he's chained there (referencing the island not the pit). He's become incorporeal, and he's in something worse than hell.

Neither is really a spoiler since we were supposed to get that from watching it... don't think they will do anything to clear that up much in future episodes.

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 04:07 PM
A few spoilers...

#1 the year the last episode took place....

Either 23 or 43 AD

Regarding MIB's death/Smoke Monster (from interview with actor wo plays Jacob)
After I threw the Man in Black in the pit, he's chained there (referencing the island not the pit). He's become incorporeal, and he's in something worse than hell.

Neither is really a spoiler since we were supposed to get that from watching it... don't think they will do anything to clear that up much in future episodes.

The second one doesn't make any sense, unless he's referring to his soul.

Why would he do that to his brother? Unless he's actually evil himself. But that wouldn't make sense either because Jacob is allowed to travel to and from the real world.

They had better reveal this mystery.

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 04:08 PM
The EM force is what keeps electrons orbiting nuclei and attracts atoms to other atoms. And the electrons that orbit each and every one of the atoms in your body are fungible with the electrons traveling along the copper in your computer.

Right, I get that but I don't understand how "more" of that energy could destroy the world.

Baby Lee
05-13-2010, 04:19 PM
Right, I get that but I don't understand how "more" of that energy could destroy the world.

My recent EM posts were not about Lost, but EM alone.

You may well 'get that' but you were masking it well saying we're not made of EM and that EM fields are around us but not in us.

AustinChief
05-13-2010, 04:20 PM
The second one doesn't make any sense, unless he's referring to his soul.

Why would he do that to his brother? Unless he's actually evil himself. But that wouldn't make sense either because Jacob is allowed to travel to and from the real world.

They had better reveal this mystery.

He isn't evil himself, but at that time he was rash and vengeful... neither character is meant to be purely good or evil... simply protaganist(Jacob) and antagonist(mib)... doesn't have to make them good vs evil.

The actor's theory on traveling from the island was something about him being the guardian and allowed to leave for specific purposes... kinda weak though.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 04:24 PM
I don't see why it's a big deal that Jacob can travel off the island. I think how is a bigger mystery than why.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 04:38 PM
The EM force is what keeps electrons orbiting nuclei and attracts atoms to other atoms. And the electrons that orbit each and every one of the atoms in your body are fungible with the electrons traveling along the copper in your computer.
Yeah, see, I didn't even know this. I'm sure I studied it at one time or another but... there you go. If this is accurate, (and I trust it is) I'm 100% positive that the "light" is just a physical representation of the same EM energy we've been seeing all along.

Thanks, Baby.

AustinChief
05-13-2010, 04:38 PM
OK, so given that the "mother" had been on the island seemingly a long time... and she speaks Latin to Claudia...

This means either

a)she is from Italy circa 300BC or later
b)she had extensive contact with Romans, enough to learn the language.. which leads to more possibilities as well...
1)other Romans had visited the island within the last few hundred years
2)she had a means to travel or at least view/hear other places
3)she had some "power" that allowed her to know languages

if the answer is b) 2) then I retract my posit that she is also a smokey since being smokey seems to chain you to the island... UNLESS smokey is only chained to the island when a"guardian" won't let him leave... and if she was both guardian and smokey, she could do whatever the hell she wanted... but it's more likely she was powerful or had access to power that manifests in another form.... using THAT to fill holes and burn villages and possibly travel the world (or view via lighthouse or other device) on occasion like Jacob did.

Red Brooklyn
05-13-2010, 04:41 PM
Solid post, AustinChief. I could get on board with that. I think either explanation works. Either she was a Smoke monster or she tapped into the island's properties. Either way works in different ways, and I like both ideas for different reasons.

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 04:52 PM
My recent EM posts were not about Lost, but EM alone.

You may well 'get that' but you were masking it well saying we're not made of EM and that EM fields are around us but not in us.

I'm not "masking" anything, I was trying to resolve outloud as to how The Mother was using the word "inside" as it relates to the Light force being EM.

When people speak to "what we're made of", EM is not often mentioned.

AustinChief
05-13-2010, 05:40 PM
and IF she could pull the view/travel stuff that Jacob later does... then he could have been on the island for an untold number of years... possibly she is egyptian and came with the builders of the statue... which given that the statue is Taweret .. it probably dates her in the range of 2800BC to 1000BC

keg in kc
05-13-2010, 05:45 PM
The last shot of the series will be Kate waking up to find Jack and Sawyer in the shower.

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 06:09 PM
and IF she could pull the view/travel stuff that Jacob later does... then he could have been on the island for an untold number of years... possibly she is egyptian and came with the builders of the statue... which given that the statue is Taweret .. it probably dates her in the range of 2800BC to 1000BC

But how can you reconcile her with the ability to be a "Smoke Monster" AND leave the island without everything "ceasing to exist"?

Furthermore, she was already a murderer and whacked in the head. IF she had the ability to become a Smoke Monster at anytime, why wouldn't she want to make everything "cease to exist"?

AustinChief
05-13-2010, 06:16 PM
But how can you reconcile her with the ability to be a "Smoke Monster" AND leave the island without everything "ceasing to exist"?

Furthermore, she was already a murderer and whacked in the head. IF she had the ability to become a Smoke Monster at anytime, why wouldn't she want to make everything "cease to exist"?

I addressed this a few posts back... if she is smokeylike then the smokeys can't leave because of the guardians... since she would be BOTH, she can do whatever...

Yes she is whacked but clearly whacked in a "killing to save the greater good is a-ok" way...

DaneMcCloud
05-13-2010, 06:37 PM
I addressed this a few posts back... if she is smokeylike then the smokeys can't leave because of the guardians... since she would be BOTH, she can do whatever...

Yes she is whacked but clearly whacked in a "killing to save the greater good is a-ok" way...

Wow, that is a whole lot of supposition.

:eek:

I think she was a person that was somehow bamboozled into becoming the guardian of the Cave, just as Desmond was bamboozled into punching numbers into a computer.

Maybe Desmond has been bamboozled again and will end up as the Island protector.

Mile High Mania
05-13-2010, 06:47 PM
Well, knowing that Hurley and MIB both speak to dead people is some indication of something... something has to come of it.

Yep this is the type of 'shock' that I'm expecting... Hurley the good guy (pretty much the same as young MIB) all of a sudden getting f'ed in the end and becoming Smokey v3.0

Young MIB was a good guy, didn't like being lied to and wanted off the island... appears as if most of the others liked him. Same thing with Hurley.

Mile High Mania
05-13-2010, 07:12 PM
Check out the back stories and similarities of Ben and John... saw a post on DarkUFO that was pretty interesting.

Bottom line... there are about 50 different ways to slice the ending, and most will be good.

Chiefnj2
05-13-2010, 08:35 PM
and IF she could pull the view/travel stuff that Jacob later does... then he could have been on the island for an untold number of years... possibly she is egyptian and came with the builders of the statue... which given that the statue is Taweret .. it probably dates her in the range of 2800BC to 1000BC

Why weren't there signs of Egyptian influence when Jacob and MIB were growing up?

KingPriest2
05-13-2010, 10:19 PM
Why weren't there signs of Egyptian influence when Jacob and MIB were growing up?

They ust didnt show them

Chiefnj2
05-14-2010, 09:06 AM
They ust didnt show them

Meh. When MIB was talking to Jacob he talked about walking the entire island many times and never seeing the cave with light. The least they could have done is have him say - I found temples and other things, but never the light.


In any event, apparently they had a screening of the next episode last night in LA. Descriptions of the entire episode are all over the place. If you lurk elsewhere be careful if you don't want to be spoiled.

mcan
05-14-2010, 11:28 AM
1. About the "light" in all men: its a suedo science fiction way to marry good and evil and philosophy and personality and electro magnatism together. Its not supposed to be a realistic theory about the origin or nature of man. The premise of the show when they started was very likely something like this:

"Hey, what if we had a show where there was this island... on the island will be the source of all human goodness and evil, like the soul of all mankind. The cradle of life. Its the fountain of youth and the garden of eden all rolled into one. It heals and kills and judges and is and forgives. All philosophy and hopes and dreams and fears and love and hate that resides in all of us can be traced back to this one spot. One person, or "god" if you will, is entrusted to protect the light from being put out or abused by ambitious men.

The catch is, nobody really knows how it all started. it just keeps cycling. After awhile, the "god" title gets shared by twins who have two different ideas about the nature of men. One believes in the free will and ultimate goodness of mankind that will eventually bring about a presumably "happy" ending to the cycles. The other believes that men are ultimately ruled by their darknesses and weaknesses, and the cycle is fated to continue forever.

They struggle to prove to each other that THEIR philosophy is correct and play a constant gameof chess with the lives of the humans that find the island. Since the brother of darkness is out to prove that nothing matters, he hatches a plan to kill his brother, finally proving his point and escaping the pointlessness that he believes he is a slave to. But there are rules to this game. Since ultimately, the point is to find whether humans are primarily good, they have to, for the most part only manipulate the pieces. They can't physically make anybody do anything.

Red Brooklyn
05-14-2010, 11:45 AM
Good to see you in the LOST thread, McCann.

But that's what I loved about this last episode. There wasn't always this game. And it's wholey Jacob's game. And it's a game he invented seemigly to cover his own ass.

Smokey isn't playing any kind of game. This isn't chess. I think 'Across The Sea' went a long way in humanizing Jacob and Smokey. They aren't gods or demigods or demons or angels or whatever. They are men who have access to extraordinary power. But they are just as grey as our losties. They weren't born "light" and "dark." Choices have made them who they are, and sometimes not even their own choices. Smokey is such a simpathetic character now.

I'm so thrilled with the information they chose to reveal in this last episode.

Chiefnj2
05-14-2010, 11:48 AM
Good to see you in the LOST thread, McCann.

But that's what I loved about this last episode. There wasn't always this game. And it's wholey Jacob's game. And it's a game he invented seemigly to cover his own ass.

Smokey isn't playing any kind of game. This isn't chess. I think 'Across The Sea' went a long way in humanizing Jacob and Smokey. They aren't gods or demigods or demons or angels or whatever. They are men who have access to extraordinary power. But they are just as grey as our losties. They weren't born "light" and "dark." Choices have made them who they are, and sometimes not even their own choices. Smokey is such a simpathetic character now.

I'm so thrilled with the information they chose to reveal in this last episode.

Why hit us over the head with black and white themes for 6 years if it is all a shade of gray? A light haired baby in a white blanket wearing light colored clothes vs. a dark haired moody baby, in a dark blanket and dark clothes.

mcan
05-14-2010, 11:56 AM
Good to see you in the LOST thread, McCann.

But that's what I loved about this last episode. There wasn't always this game. And it's wholey Jacob's game. And it's a game he invented seemigly to cover his own ass.

Smokey isn't playing any kind of game. This isn't chess. I think 'Across The Sea' went a long way in humanizing Jacob and Smokey. They aren't gods or demigods or demons or angels or whatever. They are men who have access to extraordinary power. But they are just as grey as our losties. They weren't born "light" and "dark." Choices have made them who they are, and sometimes not even their own choices. Smokey is such a simpathetic character now.

I'm so thrilled with the information they chose to reveal in this last episode.

Glad to be here. :) I read a lot, but rarely post from work. I'm supposed to be on the other side of this partition, watching for customers on the lot. Not sitting at my desk and typing about LOST. Which is admittedly a whole lot more fun.


I think he's sympathetic, but ultimately a bad guy. He's trying to destroy everybody else for his own selfish gain. Getting off the island and killing Jacob and proving his point. Winning this game is all he cares about.

Red Brooklyn
05-14-2010, 12:08 PM
I think he's sympathetic, but ultimately a bad guy. He's trying to destroy everybody else for his own selfish gain. Getting off the island and killing Jacob and proving his point. Winning this game is all he cares about.
He's certainly the "bad guy." Or the guy to cheer against. If for no other reason than his getting what he wants puts everyone else in danger. But he wasn't always that way. He wasn't born evil or dangerous. His brother made him that way. Literally.

And I don't think he gives two shits about any games. I think he's over Jacob's little experiement. He wants to leave. That's it. Either he knows his leaving will destroy the world (and he doesn't care because he's seen what humanity is capable of) or he honestly thinks there's no harm in his leaving. If it's the latter, he's an expremely sympathetic villain. It's just not cut and dry and black and white. It's so exciting. All of these characters have levels. And it's beginning to really focus on the larger philosophic themes of the show.
Why hit us over the head with black and white themes for 6 years if it is all a shade of gray? A light haired baby in a white blanket wearing light colored clothes vs. a dark haired moody baby, in a dark blanket and dark clothes.
It's a motif, a running theme. The idea is that each individual has light and dark elements to their personality. Everyone has both inside them. Jacob equates it to a scale that can tip one way or the other. Jacob's hope is that eventually mankind's scale will tip to the light. The light and dark metaphore is still very important to the show, it just isn't a prison for Jacob and Smokey. Those two characters are not one or the other. They are both. Just like the rest of us. But they have made their choices. Their scales have already tipped.

Chiefnj2
05-14-2010, 12:44 PM
I think he's sympathetic, but ultimately a bad guy. He's trying to destroy everybody else for his own selfish gain. Getting off the island and killing Jacob and proving his point. Winning this game is all he cares about.

Can't the same be said for Jacob? He intervenes in their life and brings/draws people to the island, most of whom have perished, all for his gain of no longer having to guard the cave. Finding a replacement is all he cares about.

mcan
05-14-2010, 01:10 PM
Can't the same be said for Jacob? He intervenes in their life and brings/draws people to the island, most of whom have perished, all for his gain of no longer having to guard the cave. Finding a replacement is all he cares about.

I really don't think this is the case. Jacob has a different plan, which we don't know yet. "It only ends once, everything else is just progress." Jacob has something up his sleeve. And I don't think its a selfish "I don't want to press this button anymore" kinda thing.

Red Brooklyn
05-14-2010, 01:55 PM
Can't the same be said for Jacob? He intervenes in their life and brings/draws people to the island, most of whom have perished, all for his gain of no longer having to guard the cave. Finding a replacement is all he cares about.
That's actually a really interesting idea.

I think with Jacob it's a little different only because I think he really believes in the island. And I also think Jacob only decided to find a replacement once he realized Smokey would do anything to kill him.

If Jacob didn't really think Smokey would find a way, I think he'd be content to guard the island forever. I'm not sure he was in a big hurry to get out of there. Seems to me the Candidates are only there as an insurance policy.

BigRedChief
05-14-2010, 03:06 PM
And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?

Red Brooklyn
05-14-2010, 03:29 PM
And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?
Amen.

I'd love a formal, official, in-show explanation for the numbers. There's still 3+ hours left, so I won't count it out completely... but it's looking less and less like this is going to happen.

But there's a lot of information in the show. Once it's all over I'm sure we'll be able to piece together a damn good idea of what the answer is.

patteeu
05-14-2010, 03:35 PM
And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?

Yes! This is the top mystery I'd like to see revealed.

Chiefnj2
05-14-2010, 03:38 PM
And I need an explanation of what was up with the numbers?

I think they gave their explanation.

patteeu
05-14-2010, 03:43 PM
I think they gave their explanation.

What was it?

I'm afraid the answer is that those were the last 6 candidates standing but that's extremely unsatisfying. Why 6 instead of 7 or 5. Why were those numbers so commonly repeated long before the candidate list was narrowed to 6 and since they were, why did it take so long for Jacob to figure out who the 6 were?

Huffmeister
05-14-2010, 03:52 PM
What was it?

The numbers are the candidates that were not crossed off. The list started off at over 100 numbers, but kept getting crossed off over time. At some point there were six left, which had some special significance to be "The Six". Then more numbers started being crossed off (like Locke's number). But for some reason, those six numbers were significant enough to be "The Six" that Hurley used, and that we see everywhere, and that add up to 108... and that somehow got sent back through time to the 60s when the guy heard them on patrol and later told Hurley about them in the hospital?

My head hurts.

patteeu
05-14-2010, 03:55 PM
The numbers are the candidates that were not crossed off. The list started off at over 100 numbers, but kept getting crossed off over time. At some point there were six left, which had some special significance to be "The Six". Then more numbers started being crossed off (like Locke's number). But for some reason, those six numbers were significant enough to be "The Six" that Hurley used, and that we see everywhere, and that add up to 108... and that somehow got sent back through time to the 60s when the guy heard them on patrol and later told Hurley about them in the hospital?

My head hurts.

Did all six go back in time? I can't really remember.

Huffmeister
05-14-2010, 03:59 PM
Did all six go back in time? I can't really remember.

I was referencing the numbers themselves, not the candidates. Somehow, the crazy guy in the hospital had to have heard those numbers while on patrol in the south Pacific (probably being broadcast by Widmore's group for some reason). They've never explained why those six numbers are significant. In fact, I think there were only five numbers/candidates left when found out that candidate had a number.

Red Brooklyn
05-14-2010, 04:07 PM
Did all six go back in time? I can't really remember.
Locke was dead and did not go back in time.
Sawyer did.
Jack did.
Hurley did.
Sayid did.

... and one of the Kwons (Jin) did as well. Sun did not. This lead many to beleive that Jin was the Candidate and not Sun.

The numbers seem to have a different significance to all the groups on the island. To Jacob they represented Candidates. Those 6 numbers, I believe, were assigned to those six people because of the lighthouse. The number assigned to them corresponded with the degree on the lighthouse wheel. Turn the wheel 4 degress and you see John Locke. Turn it 23 degrees and you Jack.

The numbers meant something very different to the Dharma Initiative. Though, it's never been mentioned in the show proper there was an explanation for the numbers and how/why the relate to the DI in one of the ARG's that took place during hiatus. If you want to know more about that explanation you can look through this thread, or you can do a wikipedia or lostpedia search for The Valinzetti Equation.

Of course, the show itself hasn't really said this explicitly. Some of it is just speculation. But it's speculation based on information provided from the show. I'm still holding out for a concrete, in-show, explanation.

Red Brooklyn
05-14-2010, 04:14 PM
Also...

in "light" :) of the recent episode, I thought it would be prudent to revisit this snippet of dialogue from the Season Three episode: The Cost Of Living:

LOCKE: So, what exactly did you see back there? I saw it once, you know.

EKO: And what did you see?

LOCKE: I saw a very bright light. It was beautiful.

EKO: That is not what I saw.

patteeu
05-14-2010, 06:46 PM
Locke was dead and did not go back in time.
Sawyer did.
Jack did.
Hurley did.
Sayid did.

... and one of the Kwons (Jin) did as well. Sun did not. This lead many to beleive that Jin was the Candidate and not Sun.

The numbers seem to have a different significance to all the groups on the island. To Jacob they represented Candidates. Those 6 numbers, I believe, were assigned to those six people because of the lighthouse. The number assigned to them corresponded with the degree on the lighthouse wheel. Turn the wheel 4 degress and you see John Locke. Turn it 23 degrees and you Jack.

The numbers meant something very different to the Dharma Initiative. Though, it's never been mentioned in the show proper there was an explanation for the numbers and how/why the relate to the DI in one of the ARG's that took place during hiatus. If you want to know more about that explanation you can look through this thread, or you can do a wikipedia or lostpedia search for The Valinzetti Equation.

Of course, the show itself hasn't really said this explicitly. Some of it is just speculation. But it's speculation based on information provided from the show. I'm still holding out for a concrete, in-show, explanation.

Yeah, I'm interested in an "official" explanation, whether in-show or simply from-writers. I've followed this thread from the beginning so while I may not remember all the speculation, I've been exposed to it. Thanks for the rundown though. :)

Guru
05-15-2010, 01:54 AM
Was looking over the list and found it funny to see LOST as a series that has been canceled.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/fall-tv-schedule-1005618.aspx

Huffmeister
05-15-2010, 11:20 AM
I re-watched this week's episode last night, and here are my thoughts.


The Wheel - They showed us the wheel that we saw Locke (and Ben) turn that transported them off of the island. But it was laying against the wall. Then Mother hits MIB's head against the wall, and fills in the well/cave. How did the wheel get installed? Did MIB's people put one in somewhere else?



Jacob's Brother is dead - At least I think he is. Jacob killed him when he through him in the water. Getting sucked into the light released Smokey, and the body allows Smokey to take Jacob's brothers form. However, I think Smokey has somehow trapped Jacob's brother's soul, and this is the 'fate worse than death'. Towards the beginning of this episode, Mother tells the boys that the other people are bad, that they come, they kill, they corrupt, etc. It was almost EXACTLY what the MIB/Smokey told Jacob at the end of last season. So Jacob's brother HAS to be in there somewhere.

Red Brooklyn
05-15-2010, 12:31 PM
I re-watched this week's episode last night, and here are my thoughts.


The Wheel - They showed us the wheel that we saw Locke (and Ben) turn that transported them off of the island. But it was laying against the wall. Then Mother hits MIB's head against the wall, and fills in the well/cave. How did the wheel get installed? Did MIB's people put one in somewhere else?

Exactly. I can think of two options that seem the most likely:

1. MIB went back and finished installing the wheel after he turned into Smokey.

2. The DI actually finished installing it once they arrived and built the Orchid Station.

Either way, I don't think anyone put the a wheel in a different spot. I believe that what we saw in 'Across The Sea' was the same spot that would become The Orchid Station.


Jacob's Brother is dead - At least I think he is. Jacob killed him when he through him in the water. Getting sucked into the light released Smokey, and the body allows Smokey to take Jacob's brothers form. However, I think Smokey has somehow trapped Jacob's brother's soul, and this is the 'fate worse than death'. Towards the beginning of this episode, Mother tells the boys that the other people are bad, that they come, they kill, they corrupt, etc. It was almost EXACTLY what the MIB/Smokey told Jacob at the end of last season. So Jacob's brother HAS to be in there somewhere.

I actually don't think MIB is dead. I think Jacob knocked him unconscious, but did not kill him in the stream. His body was then sucked into the heart of the island and he was transformed into Smokey. I think this because Mother stated she'd made it so Jacob and MIB couldn't kill each other, and because of the very observation you made above. He has his memories and motivations intact. He's "in there somewhere" because it's him just in a new form. He's a Smoke Monster instead of a human now.

That's my take. But really either way works, I think.

Baby Lee
05-15-2010, 12:36 PM
Has anyone figured out how and why the light was RIGHT BEHIND a wall erected by man [or some form with intelligence and an amenable body].

Red Brooklyn
05-15-2010, 01:51 PM
Has anyone figured out how and why the light was RIGHT BEHIND a wall erected by man [or some form with intelligence and an amenable body].
Nope. I have not. Maybe that'll be part of the final 3+ hours.

The best guess or theory I've read is that perhaps Mother put up the wall long ago to detour man from finding/accessing it.

Red Brooklyn
05-16-2010, 12:36 PM
New, fun little article/interview with Damon and Carlton from The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/16/arts/television/16weblost.html

DaneMcCloud
05-16-2010, 01:37 PM
New, fun little article/interview with Damon and Carlton from The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/16/arts/television/16weblost.html

These guys are masters of saying a lot without actually saying anything.

But for those of you expecting a non-Sopranos type finale, it seems like you'll be disappointed because they've alluded to it in several interviews now.

So either they're setting us up or they're telling the truth.

Red Brooklyn
05-16-2010, 01:48 PM
I think when they allude to The Sopranos, Darlton are talking about their finale being open-ended and more of a think piece, not an obvious, open and shut, definative kind of thing. I don't think they're referring to the extreme cliffhanger, lights out aspect of The Sopranos finale.

I've never seen an episode of The Sopranos, so I can't say for certain, but from what I've read (and from the fans I've talked to), The Sopranos ending was really intellegent, and well thought out. So...

I'll guess we'll know in a week.

DaneMcCloud
05-16-2010, 03:06 PM
I think when they allude to The Sopranos, Darlton are talking about their finale being open-ended and more of a think piece, not an obvious, open and shut, definative kind of thing. I don't think they're referring to the extreme cliffhanger, lights out aspect of The Sopranos finale.

I've never seen an episode of The Sopranos, so I can't say for certain, but from what I've read (and from the fans I've talked to), The Sopranos ending was really intellegent, and well thought out. So...

I'll guess we'll know in a week.

Outside of a few friends on the "business", most people I know hated the Sopranos ending. No one truly knows the fate of Tony Soprano and his family other than David Chase, which is frustrating on many levels. The Sopranos wasn't a show that dealt in mythologies or science fiction. The show was about the life of a Mafia crime boss, his internal and external struggles. While I don't have a problem with the ending, I'd be pissed if Lost just left us out in the cold.

I will understand if the Lindelof & Cuse don't answer absolutely every question onscreen, but they'd better not let the bigger mysteries go unanswered, or the fate of the characters.

Red Brooklyn
05-16-2010, 03:20 PM
I will understand if the Lindelof & Cuse don't answer absolutely every question onscreen, but they'd better not let the bigger mysteries go unanswered, or the fate of the characters.
Absolutely agree. They claim they wrote a character based show. If they don't resolve the major character issues, I'll call the finale a failure.

Red Brooklyn
05-17-2010, 12:09 PM
Also...

I was just reading through the latest EW: Lost Finale issue. Damon (or Carlton, can't remember which) described the finale as "emotionally satisfying and open to interpretation."

This, to me, is what LOST has always been. It's what LOST does best. So... if they can pull it off, I'll be thrilled.

DaneMcCloud
05-17-2010, 02:10 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-05-16-lostgraphic_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

This should be interesting to LOST fans. It also confirms that Jacob & the MIB were born in 23 AD.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-05-17-column17_ST1_N.htm

This is interesting as well. There are several other links to video with Cuse & Lindelof and more.

Param
05-17-2010, 02:21 PM
Gotta love how the smoke monster, after all these seasons of wondering wtf it is, is explained in 10 minutes coming from the bright light. Total fail. Last week episode sucked arse.

tymania
05-17-2010, 02:57 PM
Gotta love how the smoke monster, after all these seasons of wondering wtf it is, is explained in 10 minutes coming from the bright light. Total fail. Last week episode sucked arse.

Sucked arse!? Have you watched LOST from the beginning? Do you like good television? Or do you just watch those two dimensional tv shows!?

DaneMcCloud
05-17-2010, 03:05 PM
Gotta love how the smoke monster, after all these seasons of wondering wtf it is, is explained in 10 minutes coming from the bright light. Total fail. Last week episode sucked arse.

wut

Red Brooklyn
05-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Gotta love how the smoke monster, after all these seasons of wondering wtf it is, is explained in 10 minutes coming from the bright light. Total fail. Last week episode sucked arse.
Yeah, I respectfully disagree.

arrowheadnation
05-17-2010, 04:35 PM
Here is the schedule for the week if anyone is interested:

<img src=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/S_ELxiAsZ6I/AAAAAAAARew/Y6yJwkAMvnU/s640/lost+finale+week+tv+guide2.jpg>

Red Brooklyn
05-17-2010, 04:39 PM
Is that episode of Dinner Impossible on Wednesday LOST related?

Param
05-17-2010, 04:48 PM
Sucked arse!? Have you watched LOST from the beginning? Do you like good television? Or do you just watch those two dimensional tv shows!?

oh yah, huge fan. I just couldn't believe that was the explanation of smokey. I will add, there are more episodes left. But, I thought that episode stunk.

arrowheadnation
05-17-2010, 07:23 PM
Is that episode of Dinner Impossible on Wednesday LOST related?

Yes, I think he has to cater a meal for the cast and crew.

Red Brooklyn
05-18-2010, 11:56 AM
Yes, I think he has to cater a meal for the cast and crew.
That's kind of awesome. Usually, that show annoys the shit out of me, but I might actually tune in for that.

Thanks.

Chiefnj2
05-18-2010, 09:16 PM
At least it's moving quickly to an end.

I didn't like Ben's continual change of nature. 2 weeks ago wasn't he reborn when Ilana gave him a 2nd chance? Now he's evil Ben again.

No real further answers from Jacob,and telling Kate her name can be uncrossed is pretty lame.

What happened to the "rules" between Ben and Widmore about not being able to kill each other?

SithCeNtZ
05-18-2010, 09:56 PM
At least it's moving quickly to an end.

I didn't like Ben's continual change of nature. 2 weeks ago wasn't he reborn when Ilana gave him a 2nd chance? Now he's evil Ben again.

No real further answers from Jacob,and telling Kate her name can be uncrossed is pretty lame.

What happened to the "rules" between Ben and Widmore about not being able to kill each other?

Agree. You also forgot building Richard as a mystery character for six seasons for.....nothing? I'm just not sure how anyone with a straight face can say this has been planned from the beginning after that.

Chiefnj2
05-18-2010, 10:09 PM
Agree. You also forgot building Richard as a mystery character for six seasons for.....nothing? I'm just not sure how anyone with a straight face can say this has been planned from the beginning after that.

Even killing off Widmore was weak. For years he and Ben had some type of James Bond-esq relationship. Widmore wanted to harness the island's powers for his own evil use. Ben was using Sayid to kill off Widmore's people around the world, etc. All we get is "Jacob visited me and told me I was wrong." What?

That's like Michael Meyers showing up at Jamie Lee Curtis' door and saying that bald headed shrink spoke to me and resolved all of my anger issues, sorry about stalking you all these years.

Guru
05-18-2010, 10:51 PM
You know, that stuff didn't bother me until you guys posted it. Thanks a lot. LMAO

tymania
05-19-2010, 08:02 AM
Agree. You also forgot building Richard as a mystery character for six seasons for.....nothing? I'm just not sure how anyone with a straight face can say this has been planned from the beginning after that.

Even killing off Widmore was weak. For years he and Ben had some type of James Bond-esq relationship. Widmore wanted to harness the island's powers for his own evil use. Ben was using Sayid to kill off Widmore's people around the world, etc. All we get is "Jacob visited me and told me I was wrong." What?

That's like Michael Meyers showing up at Jamie Lee Curtis' door and saying that bald headed shrink spoke to me and resolved all of my anger issues, sorry about stalking you all these years.

I didn’t mind how Widmore died.. it was well deserved and Ben should have been the one to do it. After all Widmore was the reason Alex died, if he would have never sent those guys to the island to find Ben then Alex would still be living. Richard’s death was kind of weird, but I guess do we know he is dead!? Not really.. I would not be surprised to see him show up in the finale at some point…and Richard can’t die, can he!? Because he was “touched” by Jacob.

Chiefnj2
05-19-2010, 08:18 AM
I didn’t mind how Widmore died.. it was well deserved and Ben should have been the one to do it. After all Widmore was the reason Alex died, if he would have never sent those guys to the island to find Ben then Alex would still be living. Richard’s death was kind of weird, but I guess do we know he is dead!? Not really.. I would not be surprised to see him show up in the finale at some point…and Richard can’t die, can he!? Because he was “touched” by Jacob.

It was deserved that the "old" Ben kill him. What about the "new" Ben who acquired redemption 3 weeks ago (or 2-3 days island time)? Although part of me thinks Ben is conning MIB.

tymania
05-19-2010, 08:31 AM
It was deserved that the "old" Ben kill him. What about the "new" Ben who acquired redemption 3 weeks ago (or 2-3 days island time)? Although part of me thinks Ben is conning MIB.

What is he going to do though, he just saw what MIB did to Richard.. And obviously Ben wants to live, so of course he is going to do what MIB wants, but i think you are right. Ben is playing some sort on angle on all this, he will flip on MIB when the time is right.
To me it seems that MIB ALWAYS needs someone on his side, to tell what to do and what not.. And I was somewhat surprised to hear that Jacob didn’t know if or how MIB could be killed. But my guess is it has something to do with the light of the island. The light has to play a role in killing MIB aka smoke monster.
And Jack replacing Jacob as the islands protector was pretty obvious. I think we all had a pretty good idea that was going to happen. But I was surprised on how very little information was passed on from Jacob to Jack. Cant wait for the final 2 and half hours, hopefully it will all come to end without too many “shortcuts”

PhillyChiefFan
05-19-2010, 08:48 AM
At least it's moving quickly to an end.

I didn't like Ben's continual change of nature. 2 weeks ago wasn't he reborn when Ilana gave him a 2nd chance? Now he's evil Ben again.


I thought that maybe the gun was loaded with blanks. I don't think he had enough time to get everyone out, so he improved. That's why Ben wanted to go in the closet with him.

Zoe, however, isn't going to make it to the finale.

I don't know, just speculation. Either that or Ben is just a coward :D

PhillyChiefFan
05-19-2010, 08:52 AM
But I was surprised on how very little information was passed on from Jacob to Jack. Cant wait for the final 2 and half hours, hopefully it will all come to end without too many “shortcuts”

I think the information he needed was passed to him when he drank from the cup.

I noticed Jack's eyes kind of widen after he drank from it, maybe Jacob didn't need to tell him, Jack knew as soon as he was done drinking.

Cause if I were Jack, the first question out of my mouth would be "well how the hell am I suppose to stop smokey from doing whatever he wants."

tymania
05-19-2010, 08:58 AM
I think the information he needed was passed to him when he drank from the cup.

I noticed Jack's eyes kind of widen after he drank from it, maybe Jacob didn't need to tell him, Jack knew as soon as he was done drinking.

Cause if I were Jack, the first question out of my mouth would be "well how the hell am I suppose to stop smokey from doing whatever he wants."

I guess i was assuming Jack got that feeling, that something was different about him, and thats why his eyes widened. Same thing happened to Jacob after he drank what his "mother" gave him. But you could be right, maybe there was some kind of knowledge passed on with the drink.

tymania
05-19-2010, 09:00 AM
I think the information he needed was passed to him when he drank from the cup.

I noticed Jack's eyes kind of widen after he drank from it, maybe Jacob didn't need to tell him, Jack knew as soon as he was done drinking.

Cause if I were Jack, the first question out of my mouth would be "well how the hell am I suppose to stop smokey from doing whatever he wants."

And didn’t Jacob say he didn’t know how to stop MIB?! Or didn’t know if he could be killed? But said he hopes they figure some way how to stop him, otherwise everyone is dead.

BigRedChief
05-19-2010, 09:06 AM
No real further answers from Jacob,and telling Kate her name can be uncrossed is pretty lame.
As was why they were selected, thats BS. There are probably a Billion people in the world that match his criteria.
What happened to the "rules" between Ben and Widmore about not being able to kill each other?Thats right, so I think it has to be a setup and Widmore isn't dead and Ben is still good Ben.

BigRedChief
05-19-2010, 09:09 AM
And didn’t Jacob say he didn’t know how to stop MIB?! Or didn’t know if he could be killed? But said he hopes they figure some way how to stop him, otherwise everyone is dead.Smokie's death or imprisonment back in the light has to have something to do with the light, the electromagetism and Desmond.

Huffmeister
05-19-2010, 09:12 AM
Thats right, so I think it has to be a setup and Widmore isn't dead and Ben is still good Ben.
Yeah, because at first the deal was that Ben could have the island when MIB leaves. Then MIB tells him that he's going to destroy the island, and Ben doesn't even give a "Whoa, hold on there, smokey!"

Chiefnj2
05-19-2010, 09:16 AM
Ben killing Widmore would have been a little more fulfilling if Miles spoke to the dead Alex and conveyed a message to Ben.

arrowheadnation
05-19-2010, 11:51 AM
Miles is still alive for a reason. My guess is so he can communicate with Widmore to explain what he was whispering to FLocke.

I also think ultimately Sawyer will be the island protector. he'll do something heroic to take Jacks spot so he can be with kate (and maybe he can be on the island with Juliet's ghost).

Also....We're going to find out who alternate timeline Jack's baby momma is....I'd bet my left nut that it's Juliet. She's the only one we haven't seen yet.

tymania
05-19-2010, 12:16 PM
a couple of you have probably seen this already.. but here is a pretty good recap article. Kinda long but good.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20386359,00.html

Baby Lee
05-19-2010, 01:19 PM
I think the information he needed was passed to him when he drank from the cup.

I noticed Jack's eyes kind of widen after he drank from it, maybe Jacob didn't need to tell him, Jack knew as soon as he was done drinking.

Cause if I were Jack, the first question out of my mouth would be "well how the hell am I suppose to stop smokey from doing whatever he wants."

ABC preview for next week has Sawyer asking if anything was different for Jack and Jack replying 'Nothing's Different.'

Baby Lee
05-19-2010, 01:26 PM
Also....We're going to find out who alternate timeline Jack's baby momma is....I'd bet my left nut that it's Juliet. She's the only one we haven't seen yet.
Remember, Modern Family filmed in Hawaii recently. ;)

I know, I know, Julie Bowen was not called in

KingPriest2
05-19-2010, 02:59 PM
Remember, Modern Family filmed in Hawaii recently. ;)

p know, I know, Julie Bowen was not called in[/spoiler]

it's already public knowlegde so it's not a spoiler

KingPriest2
05-19-2010, 03:08 PM
a couple of you have probably seen this already.. but here is a pretty good recap article. Kinda long but good.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20386359,00.html

That's Doc Jensen. That guy is the best reviewer out there. He's been there since the beggining.

Rausch
05-19-2010, 03:19 PM
And Jack replacing Jacob as the islands protector was pretty obvious. I think we all had a pretty good idea that was going to happen. But I was surprised on how very little information was passed on from Jacob to Jack. Cant wait for the final 2 and half hours, hopefully it will all come to end without too many “shortcuts”

I figured Sawyer.

I'd LMAO if Jack died and Jacob was like "Fuck. Ok, who's next?..."

tymania
05-19-2010, 03:33 PM
That's Doc Jensen. That guy is the best reviewer out there. He's been there since the beggining.

yeah i figured that after my post... Where the hell have i been? i dont know why i never caught whiff of this before

tymania
05-19-2010, 03:51 PM
this kinda cracked me up..(it will make sense to those Heros watchers)

Save The Cheerful Scotsman, Save The World!

Chiefnj2
05-19-2010, 05:27 PM
That's Doc Jensen. That guy is the best reviewer out there. He's been there since the beggining.

His review was longer than the actual show.

DaneMcCloud
05-19-2010, 10:37 PM
At least it's moving quickly to an end.

I didn't like Ben's continual change of nature. 2 weeks ago wasn't he reborn when Ilana gave him a 2nd chance? Now he's evil Ben again.

No real further answers from Jacob,and telling Kate her name can be uncrossed is pretty lame.

What happened to the "rules" between Ben and Widmore about not being able to kill each other?

I think Ben has only been out for his survival own on the island. He's a chameleon, willing to do anything and everything to stay alive at this point. He seems to have no fear.

Alex's grave only served as a reminder to him as to how much he hated Widmore.

I don't think Widmore's killing was out of nature whatsoever for Ben and would have been more surprised if he didn't kill him.

DaneMcCloud
05-19-2010, 10:38 PM
Agree. You also forgot building Richard as a mystery character for six seasons for.....nothing? I'm just not sure how anyone with a straight face can say this has been planned from the beginning after that.

I don't believe that Richard is dead.

We'll find out next week, but it wasn't "clear" that the Smoke Monster killed him, just picked him up and moved him out of the way.

DaneMcCloud
05-19-2010, 10:40 PM
Even killing off Widmore was weak. For years he and Ben had some type of James Bond-esq relationship. Widmore wanted to harness the island's powers for his own evil use. Ben was using Sayid to kill off Widmore's people around the world, etc. All we get is "Jacob visited me and told me I was wrong." What?

That's like Michael Meyers showing up at Jamie Lee Curtis' door and saying that bald headed shrink spoke to me and resolved all of my anger issues, sorry about stalking you all these years.

I disagree.

I thought it was a perfect end to Widmore. Ben betrayed his trust.

He'll never forget that Widmore killed Alex and wanted revenge.

DaneMcCloud
05-19-2010, 10:42 PM
I think the information he needed was passed to him when he drank from the cup.

I noticed Jack's eyes kind of widen after he drank from it, maybe Jacob didn't need to tell him, Jack knew as soon as he was done drinking.

Cause if I were Jack, the first question out of my mouth would be "well how the hell am I suppose to stop smokey from doing whatever he wants."

I guess i was assuming Jack got that feeling, that something was different about him, and thats why his eyes widened. Same thing happened to Jacob after he drank what his "mother" gave him. But you could be right, maybe there was some kind of knowledge passed on with the drink.

I think it was the same type of knowledge that was given to Desmond. At that point, Jack understood everything and knew exactly what had to be done to protect the Island.

DaneMcCloud
05-19-2010, 10:46 PM
As was why they were selected, thats BS. There are probably a Billion people in the world that match his criteria.
Thats right, so I think it has to be a setup and Widmore isn't dead and Ben is still good Ben.

I didn't think it was BS. I thought it was quite awesome how Jacob revealed why he choose them and even further, shut Sawyer down when he tried to refute it.

There might be "billions" of people in the world that fit that description but how many of them would sacrifice their lives to protect an island?

Hurley apparently isn't one of them, although it could be foreshadowing.

And I believe Widmore to be dead. There's only 110 minutes or so of screen time left and it would be too convoluted to show Widmore in bed with Ben at this point in time.

They storytellers have much bigger fish to fry, IMO.

DaneMcCloud
05-19-2010, 10:47 PM
Smokie's death or imprisonment back in the light has to have something to do with the light, the electromagetism and Desmond.

The MIB wants to possess whatever the light holds. His becoming the "Smoke Monster" was result of his mother ("I've made it so you can't kill each other").

Baby Lee
05-20-2010, 06:54 AM
it's already public knowlegde so it's not a spoiler

Spoilers are things about future shows that aren't revealed ON THE SHOW. Some sites even include the previews immediately after the show as spoilers.

The internet is public, therefore ALL spoilers on the internet are public knowledge.

Chiefnj2
05-20-2010, 08:23 AM
I think Ben has only been out for his survival own on the island. He's a chameleon, willing to do anything and everything to stay alive at this point. He seems to have no fear.

Alex's grave only served as a reminder to him as to how much he hated Widmore.

I don't think Widmore's killing was out of nature whatsoever for Ben and would have been more surprised if he didn't kill him.

It wouldn't have been out of nature if they never had the episode Dr. Linus earlier this year where Ben "saw the light" and was redeemed.

The writing and character development has been awful this season.

keg in kc
05-20-2010, 08:28 AM
Much better episode than the week before. I will forever wish they hadn't spent a whole hour on the Jacob/smoke backstory.

KingPriest2
05-20-2010, 09:07 AM
Spoilers are things about future shows that aren't revealed ON THE SHOW. Some sites even include the previews immediately after the show as spoilers.

The internet is public, therefore ALL spoilers on the internet are public knowledge.

It was on tv and in magazines You missed the soiler talk awhile back So in this case its not a spoiler

Fish
05-20-2010, 09:12 AM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2okthKTqx1qzzta5o1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1274448457&Signature=vx356kpnlnsyU3t2FrgWXTOzeag%3D

CosmicPal
05-20-2010, 09:43 AM
Top Ten Lost Spoiler Alerts

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TYOJK6C4ijY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TYOJK6C4ijY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

arrowheadnation
05-20-2010, 10:36 AM
This should get you pumped up!!!!

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rz1yHmUW05Y&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rz1yHmUW05Y&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Mr. Plow
05-20-2010, 10:38 AM
LMAO

"I have to go to Target.....to get socks."

Mr. Plow
05-20-2010, 01:33 PM
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/fb-ati-hl.jpg?w=500&h=324

PhillyChiefFan
05-20-2010, 05:47 PM
LMAO

"I have to go to Target.....to get socks."

LOL, I cracked up at that too LMAO

Chiefnj2
05-21-2010, 03:03 PM
Last night I was reading an interview with the actress who played Illana. She said the original story was for her to be Jacob's daughter, but the writers changed their mind midway through.

Dartgod
05-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Last night I was reading an interview with the actress who played Illana. She said the original story was for her to be Jacob's daughter, but the writers changed their mind midway through.
USE SPOILER TAGS DAMMIT!!!

tymania
05-21-2010, 03:36 PM
USE SPOILER TAGS DAMMIT!!!

how is that a spoiler!?

Guru
05-21-2010, 04:42 PM
how is that a spoiler!?I think it was meant as a joke.

Baby Lee
05-23-2010, 05:57 AM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Buck
05-23-2010, 06:25 AM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

YES!

LMAO

Dartgod
05-23-2010, 07:57 AM
I think it was meant as a joke.:D

Red Brooklyn
05-23-2010, 09:31 AM
Too early to start getting FUCKING PUMPED?!!

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 10:04 AM
Pumped.

teedubya
05-23-2010, 10:27 AM
Yeah... we watched the Pilot episode last night... this is gonna be a fun ride tonight.

Red Brooklyn
05-23-2010, 12:13 PM
I.

Can't.

Wait.

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2010, 02:29 PM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>LMAO That was hilarious...I fucked your sons dog...ROFL

Deberg_1990
05-23-2010, 07:25 PM
I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens.

I look like a prophet and a visionary.. :)

Miles
05-23-2010, 07:30 PM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/di3w1yV4Ehg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Outstanding LMAO

Guru
05-23-2010, 08:45 PM
I'm getting a kick out of these Target commercials.

Reaper16
05-23-2010, 08:55 PM
Is this shit making any sense? To someone who hasn't seen an epi since season 1 it feels like fan service.

Guru
05-23-2010, 08:56 PM
Is this shit making any sense? To someone who hasn't seen an epi since season 1 it feels like fan service.
Why are you wasting your time watching this ep if you haven't seen anything since season 1?

Of course none of this will make sense to you.

cookster50
05-23-2010, 10:30 PM
WTH

Moobs
05-23-2010, 10:31 PM
I'm speechless.

That was amazing.

arrowheadnation
05-23-2010, 10:34 PM
What a send off. What a ride.

Brainiac
05-23-2010, 10:34 PM
They all wound up in the Nexus where time has no meaning.

Stanley Nickels
05-23-2010, 10:36 PM
The very final scene (with the credits) pretty well wrapped it up..

keg in kc
05-23-2010, 10:38 PM
That was pretty fantastic.

Chiefnj2
05-23-2010, 10:39 PM
I've watched every year and it didn't make any sense. Purgatory the whole time?

Moobs
05-23-2010, 10:41 PM
SPOILER ALERT FOR WEST COASTERS:

So what do we make of all this? Was the Island really a purgatory? Were they really all dead to begin with, having to atone for things they had done, to move on? Michael mentioned in an earlier episode he was one of the people stuck there.

Some of this may be way off but I'm just trying wrapping my head around everything right now.

Deberg_1990
05-23-2010, 10:44 PM
I didnt see Mr. Eko and Ana Lucia in the church....where were they?

keg in kc
05-23-2010, 10:44 PM
My interpretation was that the 'alternate' world introduced this season was purgatory, and that the island was a separate place which was never explained. Although I'm still going with axis mundi.

Stanley Nickels
05-23-2010, 10:45 PM
I've watched every year and it didn't make any sense. Purgatory the whole time?

That's what I'm thinking: a drawn-out purgatory with challenges of ethics and morals, right and wrong, good and evil. Life is a constant game between gooD and evil...

Reaper16
05-23-2010, 10:45 PM
I've watched every year and it didn't make any sense. Purgatory the whole time?

SPOILER ALERT FOR WEST COASTERS:

So what do we make of all this? Was the Island really a purgatory? Were they really all dead to begin with, having to atone for things they had done, to move on? Michael mentioned in an earlier episode he was one of the people stuck there.

Some of this may be way off but I'm just trying wrapping my head around everything right now.
That's what it seemed like to me, though I've only seen like 4 episodes ever. And I only saw like 45 minutes of the finale.

Shag
05-23-2010, 10:46 PM
SPOILER ALERT FOR WEST COASTERS:

So what do we make of all this? Was the Island really a purgatory? Were they really all dead to begin with, having to atone for things they had done, to move on? Michael mentioned in an earlier episode he was one of the people stuck there.

Some of this may be way off but I'm just trying wrapping my head around everything right now.

I think the island went unexplained. The sideways flash was their creation so that they could all find each other in the afterlife. Time was meaningless there, so they all made it there whenever they died...

Stanley Nickels
05-23-2010, 10:47 PM
I didnt see Mr. Eko and Ana Lucia in the church....where were they?

Hell, duh! But seriously, you bring up a good point.. Did anyone who was killed by the smoke monster end up in that church?

Chiefnj2
05-23-2010, 10:49 PM
I kind of like the idea of jack going back to the bamboo and closing his eye, but I still don't get it. Seems like purgatory to me, but the creators have said for years it wasn't. Maybe they lied.

Moobs
05-23-2010, 10:49 PM
Also, let's be honest, anyone get a little dirt in there eye at any point tonight? ;)

Dartgod
05-23-2010, 10:49 PM
What a waste of 6 years.

Guru
05-23-2010, 10:51 PM
Good ep but I don't care for the ending. I really wanted it to be anything but that.

Chiefnj2
05-23-2010, 10:51 PM
Also, let's be honest, anyone get a little dirt in there eye at any point tonight? ;)

Not close.

Stanley Nickels
05-23-2010, 10:51 PM
Also, let's be honest, anyone get a little dirt in there eye at any point tonight? ;)

I went total onions when I realized the big "shocker" (even though it wasn't really a total shocker), but mostly because it made me think about my family and friends

Guru
05-23-2010, 10:52 PM
Also, let's be honest, anyone get a little dirt in there eye at any point tonight? ;)Not even close. It's TV for crying out loud.

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 10:53 PM
All I can say is WOW! I fully expected "The End" wouldn't meet my preconceived expectations - but it not only met them, it blew by them. Excellent Excellent Ending to the show.

Moobs
05-23-2010, 10:53 PM
I went total onions when I realized the big "shocker" (even though it wasn't really a total shocker), but mostly because it made me think about my family and friends

The exact same for me.

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 10:54 PM
I kind of like the idea of jack going back to the bamboo and closing his eye, but I still don't get it. Seems like purgatory to me, but the creators have said for years it wasn't. Maybe they lied.

Honestly, if they admit that in season 2 when the question of "Is it purgatory" started popping up - it pretty much makes the final 3 1/2 - 4 seasons pointless to even do. Of course they couldn't admit that then.

Moobs
05-23-2010, 10:54 PM
What a waste of 6 years.

ROFL Some pretty lofty expectations for television you have. The core audience of Jersey Shore probably agrees with you though.

Chiefnj2
05-23-2010, 10:54 PM
All I can say is WOW! I fully expected "The End" wouldn't meet my preconceived expectations - but it not only met them, it blew by them. Excellent Excellent Ending to the show.

What show were you watching?

Deberg_1990
05-23-2010, 10:54 PM
What a waste of 6 years.

Well i wouldnt say that.....but it was a little disappointing.

Seemed like a ton of exposition, red herrings, and backstory for such a simple explanation.

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 10:55 PM
What show were you watching?

I knew you'd be one of the 1st to come on and bitch about it. I loved it from beginning to end. Great ending.

Shag
05-23-2010, 10:56 PM
I kind of like the idea of jack going back to the bamboo and closing his eye, but I still don't get it. Seems like purgatory to me, but the creators have said for years it wasn't. Maybe they lied.

I think it was pretty clear the island itself wasn't Purgatory.

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 10:56 PM
Also, let's be honest, anyone get a little dirt in there eye at any point tonight? ;)

More than I'd like to admit.

Dartgod
05-23-2010, 10:56 PM
They could of just as easily had them all wake up and realize the whole thing had been a dream.

Disappointing.

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 10:57 PM
If anything was purgatory, it was the flash sideways in this season. All the stuff that happened on the island happened in regular old reality. The flash sideways reality was where the LOSTies got their shit together before they headed into the afterlife.

Sawyer, Richard, Kate and the others really got off the island in the plane. Hurley and Ben really stayed on the island afterward. Jack really died at the end.

Guru
05-23-2010, 10:58 PM
I bolted as soon as the light went out on Jack. What happened in the credits?

BigRedChief
05-23-2010, 10:58 PM
So it was purgatory all along. The Island was......??????

I like all the couples over the years getting back together. That was cool. But, purgatory? Come on thats too easy.

PhillyChiefFan
05-23-2010, 10:58 PM
I bolted as soon as the light went out on Jack. What happened in the credits?

They showed the wreckage of the plane and silence except for the waves. Thought it brought home the point pretty well.

Deberg_1990
05-23-2010, 11:00 PM
If anything was purgatory, it was the flash sideways in this season. All the stuff that happened on the island happened in regular old reality. The flash sideways reality was where the LOSTies got their shit together before they headed into the afterlife.

Sawyer, Richard, Kate and the others really got off the island in the plane. Hurley and Ben really stayed on the island afterward. Jack really died at the end.

This....

They all died at different times, but then they met up later in the afterlife in some church they created to wait for each other.

keg in kc
05-23-2010, 11:01 PM
If anything was purgatory, it was the flash sideways in this season. All the stuff that happened on the island happened in regular old reality. The flash sideways reality was where the LOSTies got their shit together before they headed into the afterlife.

Sawyer, Richard, Kate and the others really got off the island in the plane. Hurley and Ben really stayed on the island afterward. Jack really died at the end.That's how I interpreted it.

And I teared-up about every 10 minutes it seemed like. Every frikkin' time they had one of the couples in the alternate world reconnect. Those were all very well done.

Mr Luzcious
05-23-2010, 11:01 PM
Well the ending made some of the stuff that happened earlier in the show seem totally irrelevant, but I still liked it. Now to see about those supposed alternate endings..

Chiefnj2
05-23-2010, 11:01 PM
This....

They all died at different times, but then they met up later in the afterlife in some church they created to wait for each other.

Didn't Jack die before Sawyer and Kate (since they took off on the plane)? Why were they waiting for him?

Guru
05-23-2010, 11:01 PM
Well the ending made some of the stuff that happened earlier in the show seem totally irrelevant, but I still liked it. Now to see about those supposed alternate endings..yep

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:02 PM
Well the ending made some of the stuff that happened earlier in the show seem totally irrelevant, but I still liked it. Now to see about those supposed alternate endings..

How did it make anything irrelevant? If you believe in heaven that does that make your life irrelevant?

BigRedChief
05-23-2010, 11:03 PM
This....

They all died at different times, but then they met up later in the afterlife in some church they created to wait for each other.So they didn't all die on the airplane? what was real on the island and what wasn't? Too many questions unanswered.

KCFalcon59
05-23-2010, 11:03 PM
So tell me why Penny was in the church if she never died???

Chiefnj2
05-23-2010, 11:03 PM
What was with the island being underwater at the beginning of episode 1 this past season?

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 11:04 PM
So they didn't all die on the airplane? what was real on the island and what wasn't? Too many questions unanswered.

I think that was their intent though. They've said through a ton of interviews that not everything would be answered.

OmahaChief
05-23-2010, 11:05 PM
Overall too predictable to me. Was disappointed.

Mr Luzcious
05-23-2010, 11:05 PM
How did it make anything irrelevant? If you believe in heaven that does that make your life irrelevant?

e.g. Michael and Walt (although they were already pretty irrelevant). Not so much talking about anything in the "afterlife."

keg in kc
05-23-2010, 11:06 PM
So they didn't all die on the airplane? what was real on the island and what wasn't? Too many questions unanswered.Seemed to me like everything was real on the island. The events on the island are separate and unrelated to the events in purgatory (well, related in that they met and connected on the island, but the island itself had nothing to do with purgatory).

I kind of like that they left so many questions unanswered. Gives me things to contemplate.

BigRedChief
05-23-2010, 11:06 PM
I think that was their intent though. They've said through a ton of interviews that not everything would be answered.But, too leave this much unanswered? Not cool at all. :shake:

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:07 PM
So tell me why Penny was in the church if she never died???

They flat out stated at the end that the flash sideways reality existed outside of time as we know. Everyone dies eventually, and this is where all the LOSTies met up before they moved on. For example, Kate, Sawyer, Ben, Hurley, Miles, Richard, and Claire were not dead at the end of the show, but we still saw all of them in the church. Well, I don't remember if I saw Richard.

Mr Luzcious
05-23-2010, 11:07 PM
So tell me why Penny was in the church if she never died???

Some of them were implied deaths, just assumed to have happened some time in the "future" of the normal timeline.

Brainiac
05-23-2010, 11:08 PM
Didn't Jack die before Sawyer and Kate (since they took off on the plane)? Why were they waiting for him?

So tell me why Penny was in the church if she never died???

Jack's dad said pretty clearly that time has no meaning there and that everybody dies sometime, which also means that the island was NOT purgatory. The island was reality.

keg in kc
05-23-2010, 11:08 PM
They flat out stated at the end that the flash sideways reality existed outside of time as we know. Everyone dies eventually, and this is where all the LOSTies met up before they moved on. For example, Kate, Sawyer, Ben, Hurley, Miles, Richard, and Claire were not dead at the end of the show, but we still saw all of them in the church. Well, I don't remember if I saw Richard.I don't remember seeing Richard or Libby (felt sorry for Hurley). Although we know Libby was in that world (why not in the church?)

Christian outright said something along the lines that some of the people there had died long before Jack, and some long after.

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:10 PM
I don't remember seeing Richard or Libby (felt sorry for Hurley).

Christian outright said something along the lines that some of the people there had died long before Jack, and some long after.

Yeah, Christian said that.

Libby was there in the church with Hurley. I don't remember seeing Richard or Lepidus, but I wasn't looking for them.

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 11:10 PM
It could possibly be that they all died when the bomb went off and everything before that point actually happened. I can't remember, but when everyone "connected", were there any scenes from AFTER the bomb going off?

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:11 PM
I was really happy when Lepidus turned up alive. They glossed over him getting smashed by the door when the sub went down, and it was starting to tick me off.

BigRedChief
05-23-2010, 11:11 PM
Where was walt and micheal?

keg in kc
05-23-2010, 11:11 PM
It could possibly be that they all died when the bomb went off and everything before that point actually happened. I can't remember, but when everyone "connected", were there any scenes from AFTER the bomb going off?Jin and Sun saw their death scene on the sub. Jack saw himself kiss Kate. I'd assume there was more.

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 11:12 PM
Jin and Sun saw their death scene on the sub. Jack saw himself kiss Kate. I'd assume there was more.

That's right. Forgot all about Jin/Sun. Scratch that one then.

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:13 PM
This is copy and pasted from another forum:



The island was real.

When people died, on the island or just in life, they ended up in the alt. The alt was therefore heaven or some kind of afterlife, which is why everyone kind of knew each other all along but just needed to be remmbered of it. Because it's an afterlife, it's timeless, so the people who died, died when they died but everyone is there all the time, regardless of when they died, as Shepard said.

basicly, just listen to what Christian says, and there you go, that's the finale to lost.

The island stuff happened. Boone died when he died, and when he died, everyone was there just like Jack. the afterlife has no time. it's just there in the ether. The point of the time travel and all? to stop the man in black from taking over the world I guess. which they did.

LOST.

Brainiac
05-23-2010, 11:13 PM
In the season 5 finale they really made it seem that Jacob and the MIB were practically deities conducting some sort of test. They totally backed away from that. I think that's too bad, because I liked that idea a lot more than what they wound up doing with Jacob and the MIB.

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:13 PM
Where was walt and micheal?

ABC/LOST hates black people. None of them got to go to heaven.

Wait, Rose got to go. I have to find another reason. Ecko didn't get to go either.

KCFalcon59
05-23-2010, 11:14 PM
Jack's dad said pretty clearly that time has no meaning there and that everybody dies sometime, which also means that the island was NOT purgatory. The island was reality.

Yeah, I heard that but it must have flew over my head while I was wondering what was going on. It makes more sense. Thanks.

keg in kc
05-23-2010, 11:14 PM
ABC/LOST hates black people. None of them got to go to heaven.One got to go to heaven.

Brainiac
05-23-2010, 11:16 PM
I was just glad they had Juliet in the finale, since we didn't see her all season after they killed her off.

http://actionflickchick.com/superaction/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/AP-ON-TV-LOST-ELIZABETH-MITCHELL.JPG

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:16 PM
One got to go to heaven.

Yeah, Rose got to go. It seems like it would be something as simple as not being able to get the actors back on the show, but Michael was just on a few episodes earlier.

Brainiac
05-23-2010, 11:17 PM
One got to go to heaven.

Token?

Mr Luzcious
05-23-2010, 11:18 PM
Not sure what the significance of Ben, Daniel, and Charlotte (and probably others, just listed the three that came to mind) staying outside of the Church was... come to think of it.

BigRedChief
05-23-2010, 11:18 PM
Where Richard, The french lady rambo? The daughter? Widmore, Widmore jr? Charolette?

Mr. Plow
05-23-2010, 11:19 PM
Token?

ROFL

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:23 PM
Not sure what the significance of Ben, Daniel, and Charlotte (and probably others, just listed the three that came to mind) staying outside of the Church was... come to think of it.

I guess with Ben it is probably that he just isn't able to move on yet. He did some pretty horrible stuff. I don't know why the others would have stayed behind.

Guru
05-23-2010, 11:34 PM
So tell me why Penny was in the church if she never died???To me, she was the key. That is what told me everything on the island was real life and everyone died in their own time. The flash sideways was their life after death which was instantaneous for everyone.

bh13
05-23-2010, 11:34 PM
Not sure what the significance of Ben, Daniel, and Charlotte (and probably others, just listed the three that came to mind) staying outside of the Church was... come to think of it.

With Ben, I'd assume he doesn't feel he deserves to move on yet, he made some comment about having more thinking to do.

Faraday, my best guess is he'll be there until his mom is ready to move on, given the scene between her and Desmond.

Charlotte, Richard, Rousseau, etc...I have no clue.

Shag
05-23-2010, 11:36 PM
With Ben, I'd assume he doesn't feel he deserves to move on yet, he made some comment about having more thinking to do.

Faraday, my best guess is he'll be there until his mom is ready to move on, given the scene between her and Desmond.

Charlotte, Richard, Rousseau, etc...I have no clue.

I think Faraday is waiting for Charlotte - she hadn't "remembered" yet...

Guru
05-23-2010, 11:36 PM
I don't remember seeing Richard or Libby (felt sorry for Hurley). Although we know Libby was in that world (why not in the church?)

Christian outright said something along the lines that some of the people there had died long before Jack, and some long after.Libby was there.

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:40 PM
When did Ben remember?

bh13
05-23-2010, 11:43 PM
When did Ben remember?

When Desmond was beating him up the second time he went to see Locke.

KingPriest2
05-23-2010, 11:43 PM
Wow Im just amazed by these reactios Open your minds

Well think Matrix people Just imagine Desmond as Morphieius Darlton did mention this aa a key earlier

First Libby was in the church

The reason why you didnt see the others was they werent ready to be awakened yet.

Remember in Matrix people just go thru there "normal lives" until like Meo are awaken

Im satisfied in how it ended

beer bacon
05-23-2010, 11:51 PM
When Desmond was beating him up the second time he went to see Locke.

Poor guy.

KevB
05-24-2010, 12:00 AM
Can I just add that Kate never looked better than the little black dress and high heels.....wow

arrowheadnation
05-24-2010, 12:01 AM
This is the best explanation I've seen...

We all have our mixed opinions now on what the island was, is and what this ending was about. The island was real. Yes Jack died right then and there on the ground in the bamboo next to Vincent. And Ben, Hurley and the rest of the Losties that remained on the island, stayed there until they passed hence Ben and Hurley calling each other good #1’s and #2’s. And Kate, Sawyer and the Losties that left the island on the plane lived out their lives until they died (or perhaps the plane didn’t make it and they died in a crash...only Damon and Carlton know). The alternate timeline was purgatory and the church was the pearly gates. When you die, time ceases to exist. Everyone in the alternate timeline died at some point. It does not matter when, because time is not a factor. Time is a concept made up by human beings. When you die, not only will you be in an afterlife with your ancestors, but also your children, your grandchildren, even your great-great-great-great-great grandchildren. As soon as you die time ceases to exist. This was the biggest event in each one of their lives and it meant so much to them so God wanted them to enter Heaven together as one.

To elaborate a little more (in my own words)...

In heaven, the great beyond, the next life, however your religion may perceive it, there is no such thing as time. LOST was basically the story of how Jack Shepard got to this great beyond. If it would have been the story of how Shannon got to the afterlife, we would have saw her story up to her getting shot, then we would have seen her arrival at the church with everybody (including Jack) already being there. If it would have been the story of Sawyer, we would have saw all the events up to him dying as an old man, getting hit by a bus, having a heart attack on the mainland. And in the alternate timeline, he would then show up at the church.....and of course everyone would already be there. You just have to tell your mind to let go of events happening in a certain order or timeline.

Reaper16
05-24-2010, 12:31 AM
Two questions:

1.) Why did the show -- a largely premise-driven show despite its ending -- focus so much on sci-fi and fantasy storytelling only to give the audience that watched for those bits nothing but dozens of red herrings, MacGuffins and abandoned threads?

2.) The ending clearly wants to showcase the show as a character-driven one, that it is about the characters much more than it is about anything else. Does that hold up? Were the characters good enough to be the focus of the show?

Guru
05-24-2010, 12:37 AM
Can I just add that Kate never looked better than the little black dress and high heels.....wowI don't know. That court outfit she had on a couple years back when she lost Aaron in the supermarket was pretty damn nice.

keg in kc
05-24-2010, 12:50 AM
2.) The ending clearly wants to showcase the show as a character-driven one, that it is about the characters much more than it is about anything else. Does that hold up? Were the characters good enough to be the focus of the show?I've seen it as a character-driven show from the start. The "mysteries of the island" were fun little side-tracks to lose some time bullshitting about, but in the end it's always been about the cast. Hard not to be when they spend so much time filling in backstory and developing post-crash relationships (romantic and otherwise).

Reaper16
05-24-2010, 01:01 AM
I've seen it as a character-driven show from the start. The "mysteries of the island" were fun little side-tracks to lose some time bullshitting about, but in the end it's always been about the cast. Hard not to be when they spend so much time filling in backstory and developing post-crash relationships (romantic and otherwise).
OK - but answer the question that follows from the assertion: if LOST is about its characters then was the show good? Where those characters good? Were their arcs satisfying?

bh13
05-24-2010, 01:11 AM
I've seen it as a character-driven show from the start. The "mysteries of the island" were fun little side-tracks to lose some time bullshitting about, but in the end it's always been about the cast. Hard not to be when they spend so much time filling in backstory and developing post-crash relationships (romantic and otherwise).

Agreed. I'm interested in the mysteries of the island somewhat yes, but it's the characters I tuned in for each week more than anything.


OK - but answer the question that follows from the assertion: if LOST is about its characters then was the show good? Where those characters good? Were their arcs satisfying?

To me, yes. I loved it.

teedubya
05-24-2010, 01:37 AM
If the island wasn't real, then why would Jack have only these people at his funeral? It had to be real to some point, especially since they were able to get rescued from it once.

I want to know WHY the island was sunk at the beginning of season 6.

teedubya
05-24-2010, 01:45 AM
Interesting, nonetheless. This story seems to me, to basically be about redemption for Jack... the arc of his life, his struggles, his choices... and inevitably finds that We Live Together... Die Together. Not alone.

All of the rest of it is filler. Jack fulfilled his "duty" whether it was real or imagined... it was a test, and he passed.

Jamie
05-24-2010, 01:48 AM
Where was walt and micheal?

Michael pretty much told Hurley that his spirit is stuck on the island earlier in the season. Walt probably grew up and had a life, and in the grand scheme of things these people weren't that important to him.

Guru
05-24-2010, 01:50 AM
If the island wasn't real, then why would Jack have only these people at his funeral? It had to be real to some point, especially since they were able to get rescued from it once.

I want to know WHY the island was sunk at the beginning of season 6.That one still bugs me as well. was it just to show one of the many possible endings or was it to indicate that the blast actually did blow up the island in the " now perceived" alternate timeline.