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Third Eye
05-24-2010, 01:07 AM
I thought the episode was fantastic and a fitting end to the series. I guess I don't understand why people are having a hard time with it, seems pretty clear to me.

I do have to admit that something must have gotten in my eye during the Charlie and Claire "remembering."

ChiefJustice
05-24-2010, 01:11 AM
They should have ended it with a close-up into Vincent's eyes with a reflection of the plane overhead.

And,then he barks....

That would have been more interesting.

Buck
05-24-2010, 01:19 AM
So tell me why Penny was in the church if she never died???

That church scene could have taken place 100s to 1000s of years in the future.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 01:22 AM
Everyone that's posted saw a different finale than I did.

JACK WAS JACOB.

The ENTIRE series was in Jack's mind.

Jack touched Rose. And Locke. And Desmond. And so on.

Jack's father died.

Jack was dead. On the island.

He wasn't saved by the island and there was no "purgatory".

Everything happened in the split second that flight 815 crashed.

THAT is why there is no explanation for the crash, EMT, Smoke Monster, etc.

It was all in the mind of Jack, just before he died.

They all died. It was Jack's fantasy.

Buck
05-24-2010, 01:28 AM
Everyone that's posted saw a different finale than I did.

JACK WAS JACOB.

The ENTIRE series was in Jack's mind.

Jack touched Rose. And Locke. And Desmond. And so on.

Jack's father died.

Jack was dead. On the island.

He wasn't saved by the island and there was no "purgatory".

Everything happened in the split second that flight 815 crashed.

THAT is why there is no explanation for the crash, EMT, Smoke Monster, etc.

It was all in the mind of Jack, just before he died.

They all died. It was Jack's fantasy.

No way in hell.

That show wasn't in anyone's head.

Damon and Carlton said no way.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 01:29 AM
No way in hell.

That show wasn't in anyone's head.

Damon and Carlton said no way.

LMAO

It was Jack.

Jack was Jacob. He died. They all died on the plane crash.

His father led him to heaven.

The End.

Buck
05-24-2010, 01:30 AM
LMAO

It was Jack.

Jack was Jacob. He died.

His father led him to heaven.

End of story.

All of the on Island stuff happened, don't care what you think.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 01:33 AM
All of the on Island stuff happened, don't care what you think.

To each his own.

I don't think any of it happened.

Jack died in the same spot he landed on 9/22/04.

Guru
05-24-2010, 01:34 AM
LMAO

It was Jack.

Jack was Jacob. He died. They all died on the plane crash.

His father led him to heaven.

The End.Completely disagree with you on that point.

ChiefJustice
05-24-2010, 01:35 AM
Everyone that's posted saw a different finale than I did.

JACK WAS JACOB.

The ENTIRE series was in Jack's mind.

Jack touched Rose. And Locke. And Desmond. And so on.

Jack's father died.

Jack was dead. On the island.

He wasn't saved by the island and there was no "purgatory".

Everything happened in the split second that flight 815 crashed.

THAT is why there is no explanation for the crash, EMT, Smoke Monster, etc.

It was all in the mind of Jack, just before he died.

They all died. It was Jack's fantasy.


I am leaning more towards this idea....

The island was Jack's snow-globe "Rosebud".

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 01:37 AM
Completely disagree with you on that point.

So, you think it all happened, then wha?

The entire show revolved around Jack. He was the hero.

We found him in the same exact place 6 years later.

Dead.

It was all in his head. Jack is Jacob.

That's why the Smoke Monster was never given a name.

He didn't exist.

Fruit Ninja
05-24-2010, 01:40 AM
Well, i guess it was that they were just lost in life and they found their way.

Guru
05-24-2010, 01:41 AM
So, you think it all happened, then wha?I think everything on the island happened. The sideways flashes were heaven, purgatory, hell, whatever. They all met up when they died just as Christian stated to Jack.

I think Ben and Hurley were the last to move on. Who knows how many years passed. Who really cares?

I'm not saying you are wrong. I am just saying I don't agree with you. I am certain there are probably 500 other theories out there as well.

ChiefJustice
05-24-2010, 01:46 AM
I think everything on the island happened. The sideways flashes were heaven, purgatory, hell, whatever. They all met up when they died just as Christian stated to Jack.

I think Ben and Hurley were the last to move on. Who knows how many years passed. Who really cares?

I'm not saying you are wrong. I am just saying I don't agree with you. I am certain there are probably 500 other theories out there as well.


I bet you are right in what the producers wanted to convey.

I think Dane offers up a more interesting idea of how they could have ended the show.

Buck
05-24-2010, 01:46 AM
So, you think it all happened, then wha?

The entire show revolved around Jack. He was the hero.

We found him in the same exact place 6 years later.

Dead.

It was all in his head. Jack is Jacob.

That's why the Smoke Monster was never given a name.

He didn't exist.

Then why give Jacob a name or Ben Linus, or Juliette Burke, or Richard Alpert, etc.

If Smokie didn't exist, neither did these people according to your thinking.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 01:46 AM
I think everything on the island happened. The sideways flashes were heaven, purgatory, hell, whatever. They all met up when they died just as Christian stated to Jack.

I think Ben and Hurley were the last to move on. Who knows how many years passed. Who really cares?

I'm not saying you are wrong. I am just saying I don't agree with you. I am certain there are probably 500 other theories out there as well.

You're of course, welcome to believe what you'd like.

The simplest explanation is that the show was completely about Jack and in the end, about Jack.

Jack was Jacob.

They all died in the plane crash. It was Jack's "flash forward" before death.

I'm shocked that other people on CP can't see this.

Miles
05-24-2010, 01:46 AM
I am still digesting the ending but can't come up with anything better than Dayne or either it was all just shit they made up along the way and half ass tried to tie it together at the end. Either way, I'm left with a feeling of this all being a big waste of time.

Guru
05-24-2010, 01:46 AM
I bet you are right in what the producers wanted to convey.

I think Dane offers up a more interesting idea of how they could ended the show.Oh, most definitely agreed there. Dane brought up something I would never have considered.

Guru
05-24-2010, 01:48 AM
You're of course, welcome to believe what you'd like.

The simplest explanation is that the show was completely about Jack and in the end, about Jack.

Jack was Jacob.

They all died in the plane crash. It was Jack's "flash forward" before death.

I'm shocked that other people on CP can't see this.Thats OK. I forgive ya. ;)

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 01:50 AM
Thats OK. I forgive ya. ;)

Thanks

LMAO

;)

ChiefJustice
05-24-2010, 01:51 AM
I am still upset that some devious polar bear wasn't the puppet master of all these people.

I would have bet money on it.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 01:53 AM
I am still digesting the ending but can't come up with anything better than Dayne or either it was all just shit they made up along the way and half ass tried to tie it together at the end. Either way, I'm left with a feeling of this all being a big waste of time.

For the record, I think it's an EXTREMELY cheap way out.

Everything that happened was in Jack's mind.

It cheapens the series and the story.

Oh well.

Guru
05-24-2010, 01:58 AM
For the record, I think it's an EXTREMELY cheap way out.

Everything that happened was in Jack's mind.

It cheapens the series and the story.

Oh well.Thats one reason I disagree. It would cheapen the entire thing because none of it would have happened at all.

Miles
05-24-2010, 01:59 AM
For the record, I think it's an EXTREMELY cheap way out.

Everything that happened was in Jack's mind.

It cheapens the series and the story.

Oh well.

I haven't been able to sort out the others of it being purgatory the entire time and they all died in the crash, or the island was real but the alt storyline this year was the purgatory because of the extreme amount of lose ends and conflicting plot lines to either of those.

ChiefJustice
05-24-2010, 02:03 AM
Thats one reason I disagree. It would cheapen the entire thing because none of it would have happened at all.


Didn't St. Elsewhere end like that back in the 80's?

Guru
05-24-2010, 02:06 AM
Didn't St. Elsewhere end like that back in the 80's?I have no idea. Never watched that show.

Miles
05-24-2010, 02:08 AM
Didn't St. Elsewhere end like that back in the 80's?

Yeah, I head that from a friend a few weeks ago when we were talking about how Lost might have a cheap ending.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 02:11 AM
I'm going to bed guys, but all of the signs point to this being all in Jack's mind.

Forget seasons 1-5 and focus on season six, from Jack's "child" to Sawyer being a cop to Hurley being a multimillionaire. Add to the fact about the ambiguous power source to the MIB not having a name to Jack = Jacob and so on. He has no children (hence, Tawaret).

It was a great series and I'm not "mad" about the ending but it is what it is:

A complete fabrication on Jack's part while dying in a jungle immediately after a plane crash.

We saw his pathetic life. Failed marriage, no children, inferiority complex, dead father. He "crash lands" on a island where he's the hero.

He saves the lives of people he "touched" on the plane, he makes strong decisions and becomes a leader: something he could never accomplish or do in real life.

The rest, he assumes. It's all a byproduct of his imagination as he lies dying. A justification for being weak and lame.

His father leads him to the actual light.

End of story.

Buck
05-24-2010, 02:18 AM
I'm going to bed guys, but all of the signs point to this being all in Jack's mind.

Forget seasons 1-5 and focus on season six, from Jack's "child" to Sawyer being a cop to Hurley being a multimillionaire. Add to the fact about the ambiguous power source to the MIB not having a name to Jack = Jacob and so on. He has no children (hence, Tawaret).

It was a great series and I'm not "mad" about the ending but it is what it is:

A complete fabrication on Jack's part while dying in a jungle immediately after a plane crash.

We saw his pathetic life. Failed marriage, no children, inferiority complex, dead father. He "crash lands" on a island where he's the hero.

He saves the lives of people he "touched" on the plane, he makes strong decisions and becomes a leader: something he could never accomplish or do in real life.

The rest, he assumes. It's all a byproduct of his imagination as he lies dying. A justification for being weak and lame.

His father leads him to the actual light.

End of story.

You cant just tell us to forget the first 5 seasons. If anything was in his head it was the flash sideways, but thats it.

ChiefJustice
05-24-2010, 02:18 AM
I'm going to bed guys, but all of the signs point to this being all in Jack's mind.

Forget seasons 1-5 and focus on season six, from Jack's "child" to Sawyer being a cop to Hurley being a multimillionaire. Add to the fact about the ambiguous power source to the MIB not having a name to Jack = Jacob and so on. He has no children (hence, Tawaret).

It was a great series and I'm not "mad" about the ending but it is what it is:

A complete fabrication on Jack's part while dying in a jungle immediately after a plane crash.

We saw his pathetic life. Failed marriage, no children, inferiority complex, dead father. He "crash lands" on a island where he's the hero.

He saves the lives of people he "touched" on the plane, he makes strong decisions and becomes a leader: something he could never accomplish or do in real life.

The rest, he assumes. It's all a byproduct of his imagination as he lies dying. A justification for being weak and lame.

His father leads him to the actual light.

End of story.


I am just going to imagine in my mind that this happened.

Makes it easier.....until the wacky spin-off with the minor characters where they ruin it completely.

Guru
05-24-2010, 02:24 AM
I am just going to imagine in my mind that this happened.

Makes it easier.....until the wacky spin-off with the minor characters ruin it completely.They will call it LOSTer

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 02:46 AM
To each his own.

I don't think any of it happened.

Jack died in the same spot he landed on 9/22/04.

Except, he was wearing different clothes and had a different haircut. And his face was bloodied and he was nursing a stab wound. But aside from that, yeah, it was exactly the same :eek:

The island was real and everything that happened on it was real. Christian Shephard pretty much explains as clear as day what the ending is when he's talking to Jack, so I don't see how you're not getting it - "Some died before you, some died far after you, but they needed you and you needed each and every one of them to move on."

Some died on the island, some died off the island. When they died is irrelevant because ultimately, they met up in alt-verse to be together one last time before they all "moved on."

kysirsoze
05-24-2010, 02:47 AM
It makes no sense to say it was all "in Jack's mind." The whole point was that what is important are the relationships you have with people. The church scene was a reuniting of all of these characters. Why would Jack's big after-life reunion be with a bunch of people he imagined?

IMO, What happened on the island happened. As the various characters died, they entered the afterlife. They were all stuck in a world created collectively and needed the help of each other to move on, the point being that their time on the island was the most important time in their lives. In fact, their time on the island is what gave their lives meaning at all. They needed each other in life, and they needed each other in death.

I agree, from a storytelling standpoint, this was a little strange. It did in a way trivialize the events of the show. But, then again, the events being trivial was sort of the point, I think. There is something more than our daily struggles and what not, no matter how earth shattering they seem. Might be a little cheesy, but no more than anything else in this show. This show is flawed, sure, but I think some of you guys are over simplifying this ending a bit. All things considered, I give it a :thumb:

kysirsoze
05-24-2010, 02:48 AM
Except, he was wearing different clothes and had a different haircut. And his face was bloodied and he was nursing a stab wound. But aside from that, yeah, it was exactly the same :eek:

The island was real and everything that happened on it was real. Christian Shephard pretty much explains as clear as day what the ending is when he's talking to Jack, so I don't see how you're not getting it - "Some died before you, some died far after you, but they needed you and you needed each and every one of them to move on."

Some died on the island, some died off the island. When they died is irrelevant because ultimately, they met up in alt-verse to be together one last time before they all "moved on."

yep

Fruit Ninja
05-24-2010, 03:07 AM
This is how i see it. They went to the island because they were all Lost in life. Their time at the Island, they found their way on what they wanted out of life and found some direction.

Thats it. nothing more, nothing less. Enjoy the ride, i did.

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 04:51 AM
I mentioned on another thread how I came to the epiphany that Lost was the new 'It.' And AVClub goes and encapsulates my thoughts in it's opening sentence.

I was chatting with a fellow TV critic a couple of weeks ago and told her that when it comes to the majority of genre fiction, I like the first four-fifths of any story far more than the finish. I love detective fiction and policiers, but once Harry Bosch or whoever puts all the pieces together and stands gun-to-gun with the bad guy, my eyes tend to glaze. (It’s the same reason I stopped doing Sudoku puzzles after a while; once I did the hard work early on, the rest felt too much like accounting.)

I did enjoy the epiphanies of the characters, but that was acting more than plotting.

Deberg_1990
05-24-2010, 06:03 AM
I'm going to bed guys, but all of the signs point to this being all in Jack's mind.

Forget seasons 1-5 and focus on season six, from Jack's "child" to Sawyer being a cop to Hurley being a multimillionaire. Add to the fact about the ambiguous power source to the MIB not having a name to Jack = Jacob and so on. He has no children (hence, Tawaret).

It was a great series and I'm not "mad" about the ending but it is what it is:

A complete fabrication on Jack's part while dying in a jungle immediately after a plane crash.

We saw his pathetic life. Failed marriage, no children, inferiority complex, dead father. He "crash lands" on a island where he's the hero.

He saves the lives of people he "touched" on the plane, he makes strong decisions and becomes a leader: something he could never accomplish or do in real life.

The rest, he assumes. It's all a byproduct of his imagination as he lies dying. A justification for being weak and lame.

His father leads him to the actual light.

End of story.

Interesting take....

At the least, i wish the creators and writers would come out and actually explain what all this meant.

Dartgod
05-24-2010, 06:24 AM
You're of course, welcome to believe what you'd like.

The simplest explanation is that the show was completely about Jack and in the end, about Jack.

Jack was Jacob.

They all died in the plane crash. It was Jack's "flash forward" before death.

I'm shocked that other people on CP can't see this.
So it was all a dream. Lame.

Buck
05-24-2010, 06:27 AM
So it was all a dream. Lame.

No it wasn't. I am cool with people having their opinions, but to be honest with you, anyone who believes this doesn't really get the show.

Dane, you seem like a cool guy and all, but I think you are 100% wrong here.

I will say though that a lot of people in this thread will just go with whatever you say, at least thats what it seems like.

You are like Jacob in a way...

BigRedChief
05-24-2010, 06:31 AM
For the record, I think it's an EXTREMELY cheap way out.

Everything that happened was in Jack's mind.

It cheapens the series and the story.

Oh well.And its been done to death. St. Elsewhere was a mentally challenged childs imagination. Bob Newheart woke up from a dream about owning an Inn. If true, the lack of orginality would be unbelievable for a show that had orginal ideas at one time.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 06:41 AM
And its been done to death. St. Elsewhere was a mentally challenged childs imagination. Bob Newheart woke up from a dream about owning an Inn. If true, the lack of orginality would be unbelievable for a show that had orginal ideas at one time.

I think it's hardly that...

I've had mixed thoughts on the ending, but as I think about it more... I really do think you could interpret about 4-5 solid ways to sum of the meaning of the show. I don't have the time to go through them and at some point, I'll try to wrap my arms around them and type them.

However, I do think that the notion of this just being all in Jack's mind is a bit simplistic... it's too obvious. Remember what Flocke said to Jack when he realized he was the replacement for Jacob? He said something like "You are the one? Don't you think that's a bit too obvious?" Something to that nature... then as we find out, it wasn't Jack after all ... it was Hurley. Jack had to be the 'intermediate replacement' in order for Flocke to become mortal, then Hurley would ultimate take over his role.

So, I think once things settle and I can digest it more... I'll be able to make more sense of it.

Did Ben not go into the church because Danielle and her daughter weren't there - meaning they had not died yet? Where were the kids (Aaron, Sun and Jin's baby, Desmond and Penny's child).

What's the deal with Locke saying to Jack (twice) that he didn't have a son (this was after the surgery). What's the story there? Who was the kid then and how would Locke know?

Same with Walt, he wasn't there because he had not died ... we learned previously that Michael said he was essentially "stuck on the island... part of the whispers". Where was Ecko... was he there with Michael - trapped?

I think it's interesting how the Jacob/Richard roles wound up being Hurley/Ben in the end...

I think "seeing this through Jack's eyes and it's all a dream" is a bit too simplistic. Sure, it's a definite possibility, but I think it's just one of several ways to interpret it.

Moobs
05-24-2010, 06:42 AM
No it wasn't. I am cool with people having their opinions, but to be honest with you, anyone who believes this doesn't really get the show.

Dane, you seem like a cool guy and all, but I think you are 100% wrong here.

I will say though that a lot of people in this thread will just go with whatever you say, at least thats what it seems like.

You are like Jacob in a way...

This x 1000. From everything I have read so far from fans, professional reviewers, blog sites, and this is the only time I've seen the ending interpreted this way.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 06:44 AM
I mean seriously... did some of you really expect one final resolution to all of this? If you did, then you have abandoned what you loved about a show that you devoted 6 years watching... there are never final answers to all of the questions, and when answers are provided... more questions arise.

Buck
05-24-2010, 06:49 AM
I think it's hardly that...

I've had mixed thoughts on the ending, but as I think about it more... I really do think you could interpret about 4-5 solid ways to sum of the meaning of the show. I don't have the time to go through them and at some point, I'll try to wrap my arms around them and type them.

However, I do think that the notion of this just being all in Jack's mind is a bit simplistic... it's too obvious. Remember what Flocke said to Jack when he realized he was the replacement for Jacob? He said something like "You are the one? Don't you think that's a bit too obvious?" Something to that nature... then as we find out, it wasn't Jack after all ... it was Hurley. Jack had to be the 'intermediate replacement' in order for Flocke to become mortal, then Hurley would ultimate take over his role.

So, I think once things settle and I can digest it more... I'll be able to make more sense of it.

Did Ben not go into the church because Danielle and her daughter weren't there - meaning they had not died yet? Where were the kids (Aaron, Sun and Jin's baby, Desmond and Penny's child).

Ben didn't go in because he wasn't ready to move on yet, he wasn't ready to give up on living with Alex and Danielle, which he didn't have enough time to do while he was living. He is already dead in the real timeline by this point, IMO, they all are.

What's the deal with Locke saying to Jack (twice) that he didn't have a son (this was after the surgery). What's the story there? Who was the kid then and how would Locke know?

IMO, Jack created the son in his head because of all the father issues he had, and he wanted to do the right thing and prove to himself he could be a good dad, a better one than he had.

Same with Walt, he wasn't there because he had not died ... we learned previously that Michael said he was essentially "stuck on the island... part of the whispers". Where was Ecko... was he there with Michael - trapped?

Again, I think Walt was dead by this point in time (lets say it was 100 years into the future). I don't think that Walt, Michael, Eko, Mr. Friendly, Mikhail, Nikki, Paulo, etc. were there because they weren't as important to eachother as the rest of them. Like Christian said, they all created this place because they needed eachother, they needed to remember before they could move on. They didn't need those people to do so. I think they could have gotten away with having Walt and Michael there, but it worked just as well without them.
I think it's interesting how the Jacob/Richard roles wound up being Hurley/Ben in the end...


I think "seeing this through Jack's eyes and it's all a dream" is a bit too simplistic. Sure, it's a definite possibility, but I think it's just one of several ways to interpret it.

Yeah, no. The Ending is what it was, and End. The episode was called "The End." It was time for their story to be over, so they (the characters) ended it by finding eachother before passing on. The Alt was basically in the future after they all died. If you remember, Hurley said to Ben, "You were a great #2." (Or something just like that)...This means that Ben was no longer a #2. Hurley had to have died too, everyone there was dead.

BigRedChief
05-24-2010, 06:52 AM
However, I do think that the notion of this just being all in Jack's mind is a bit simplistic... it's too obvious. If it was instaneous and it was all a dream how come Jack had on different clothes and a different haircut and bleeding in different places than when we first saw him?

Buck
05-24-2010, 06:53 AM
I mean seriously... did some of you really expect one final resolution to all of this? If you did, then you have abandoned what you loved about a show that you devoted 6 years watching... there are never final answers to all of the questions, and when answers are provided... more questions arise.

I didn't expect it to be resolved, I knew that it would be open ended, but to sit here and say that the whole series was a dream, give me a break. Give the writers some credibilty, fuck. They had you at the edge of your seat for 6 seasons.

And I'm not arguing with anything you are saying MHM, just to make that clear.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 06:54 AM
If it was instaneous and it was all a dream how come Jack had on different clothes and a different haircut and bleeding in different places than when we first saw him?

I dunno... but the final scenes with the credits were interesting. I'd be interested to see screen shots (and they'll be up soon) to compare those shots with the original wreckage of flight 815.

Was it indeed the same crash scene? Was it the plane that took off in the last episode? I dunno, but I want to see comparisons.

Buck
05-24-2010, 06:56 AM
I dunno... but the final scenes with the credits were interesting. I'd be interested to see screen shots (and they'll be up soon) to compare those shots with the original wreckage of flight 815.

Was it indeed the same crash scene? Was it the plane that took off in the last episode? I dunno, but I want to see comparisons.

What the hell man?

I need to see that because for some reason the Local news decided that it would be a good idea to break in with BREAKING NEWS for an earthquake that was a 4.0 that was in Mexico.

It broke in a minute before it was scheduled to end. I want to see what you are talking about.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 06:56 AM
I didn't expect it to be resolved, I knew that it would be open ended, but to sit here and say that the whole series was a dream, give me a break. Give the writers some credibilty, ****. They had you at the edge of your seat for 6 seasons.

And I'm not arguing with anything you are saying MHM, just to make that clear.

Yeah, I don't think it was a dream either... they're all connected, there is a reason they were all "there" in this world of LOST and why the others from the plane crash were not.

Maybe they all had issues that needed to be resolved before they could 'move on'... so the last 6 years was a look into how these people were all thrown together to 'fix themselves' so they could move on.

It's fun stuff.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 07:00 AM
What the hell man?

I need to see that because for some reason the Local news decided that it would be a good idea to break in with BREAKING NEWS for an earthquake that was a 4.0 that was in Mexico.

It broke in a minute before it was scheduled to end. I want to see what you are talking about.

I'm sure it's out there... you can go to Hulu.com and skip to the end. And in that final scene... I want to know what that is in the middle of the wreckage, looks like someone wearing all black. Could be nothing though.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 07:11 AM
http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/05/end-by-found.html

Good stuff here... I didn't catch the relationship with what Des did with the light and what Juliette said to Sawyer at the vending machine.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 07:15 AM
Why was the island at the bottom of the ocean to start this past season?

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 07:20 AM
Why was the island at the bottom of the ocean to start this past season?

I would imagine it was giving a look at the possible future... had Jack not gone back down to replace the large stone. Flocke's goal was to "put the island on the bottom of the ocean". I guess if Jack never full realized 'his role' and did not go back down, Flocke's goal would have been achieved...

BigMeatballDave
05-24-2010, 07:42 AM
That's how I interpreted it.

And I teared-up about every 10 minutes it seemed like. Every frikkin' time they had one of the couples in the alternate world reconnect. Those were all very well done.Same here. I choked up on more than a few occasions.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 07:45 AM
Same here. I choked up on more than a few occasions.

I didn't choke up, but the scenes were great... now, for whatever reasons, I thought the end scene with the dog crawling up next to Jack was greatness.

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 07:46 AM
What was saddest to me was Aaron being an infant in the afterlife. On a positive note, it's an indication that they all didn't die in the 2004 crash, but did he really never get a chance to grow up? Thought there was a li'l rugrat waiting for Kate and Claire to come back. And it wasn't an embodiment so Jack would recognize him as he raised Aaron for 3+ years himself.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 07:50 AM
We never did hear the real name of MIB...

CosmicPal
05-24-2010, 07:50 AM
I thought it was a good ending. There was redemption, forgiveness, love rediscovered, and the recognition of mortality: Ben apologized to Locke, Richard Alpert discovered his gray hair, Claire and Charlie found each other, as did Rose and Bernard, Jin and Sun, Desmond and Penny, and Sawyer and Juliet. Most importantly, Jack saw his father who told him why it all happened.

The only problems I had with it was the "some people are dead and some people are alive" bit. WTF? Either they should all dead or they are all alive.

The other thing was Ben refusing to go into the church. Is he resorting to his old ways now that everyone found peace? Is he planning on going back to the island to rule it with his old ways of cunning and mischievousness?

I really loved how they had Jack go back to where it all started. Nice ending. And of course, the eye closes...

oldandslow
05-24-2010, 07:54 AM
I really liked the episode and thought it to be a good ending. Desmond pulling the plug and making Flocke mortal being mirrored at the vending machine by Sawyer and Juliette was some pretty nifty writing.

The ALT was obviously purgatory for all religions (note the stained glass window at the Church) - even those that don't believe in purgatory. The island really does represent hell in some ways - there was even a little devil looking thing on the roof when Dez pulled the plug.

Walking through hell, making choices about right and wrong, battles between good and evil - the show represents us - everyman - as we fight our own wars.

Michael lost his soul. Sayid found his (and Shannon). I think that can tell us more about ourselves than anything else. We can do some pretty awful things, but in the end we can overcome them if we so choose....or not.

Juliette and Sawyer's awakening was wonderful...the exchange between Locke and Ben at the church was really intriguing, and Kate is some yummy eye candy.

What's not to like?

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 07:59 AM
After all these years how is it that Aaron wasn't important?

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 08:00 AM
I thought it was a good ending. There was redemption, forgiveness, love rediscovered, and the recognition of mortality: Ben apologized to Locke, Richard Alpert discovered his gray hair, Claire and Charlie found each other, as did Rose and Bernard, Jin and Sun, Desmond and Penny, and Sawyer and Juliet. Most importantly, Jack saw his father who told him why it all happened.

The only problems I had with it was the "some people are dead and some people are alive" bit. WTF? Either they should all dead or they are all alive.

The other thing was Ben refusing to go into the church. Is he resorting to his old ways now that everyone found peace? Is he planning on going back to the island to rule it with his old ways of cunning and mischievousness?

I really loved how they had Jack go back to where it all started. Nice ending. And of course, the eye closes...

The Island wasn't purgatory, the Flash Sideways was. The people who died in the story, died in the story. Those who didn't went on to live lives of different duration in stories not shown. For example, Hurley and Ben went on to protect the island for a period as the show stated [you WERE a great #1, and you WERE a great #2]. Eventually, all of them passed on, and it came to Desmond to round them up in purgatory/sideways, and get them to realize that they'd lived another life and move on to 'elsewhere' on the other side of the church doors.

What's kind of disappointing, though, is that all of those epiphanies, all those happy reunions, were for spectral remains, not people on the verge of a reunited life, rather an reunited afterlife. Who knows if in this world if they ever saw each other again.

Bump
05-24-2010, 08:02 AM
The Island wasn't purgatory, the Flash Sideways was. The people who died in the story, died in the story. Those who didn't went on to live lives of different duration in stories not shown. For example, Hurley and Ben went on to protect the island for a period as the show stated [you WERE a great #1, and you WERE a great #2]. Eventually, all of them passed on, and it came to Desmond to round them up in purgatory/sideways, and get them to realize that they'd lived another life and move on to 'elsewhere' on the other side of the church doors.

What's kind of disappointing, though, is that all of those epiphanies, all those happy reunions, were for spectral remains, not people on the verge of a reunited life, rather a reunited afterlife. Who knows if in this world if they ever saw each other again.

PFYP

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 08:05 AM
Im sEveryone that's posted saw a different finale than I did.

JACK WAS JACOB.

The ENTIRE series was in Jack's mind.

Jack touched Rose. And Locke. And Desmond. And so on.

Jack's father died.

Jack was dead. On the island.

He wasn't saved by the island and there was no "purgatory".

Everything happened in the split second that flight 815 crashed.

THAT is why there is no explanation for the crash, EMT, Smoke Monster, etc.

It was all in the mind of Jack, just before he died.

They all died. It was Jack's fantasy.


This is not the case. Sorry even Darlton said so Another thing did you miss what is father said to him at the end? People dying before him and after him? Darlton gave a hint a awhile back THINK MATRIX

Everything happened on the island was real.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 08:07 AM
After all these years how is it that Aaron wasn't important?

He wasnt The physic was exposed as a fraud. Darlton brought that up recently

patteeu
05-24-2010, 08:09 AM
No it wasn't. I am cool with people having their opinions, but to be honest with you, anyone who believes this doesn't really get the show.

Dane, you seem like a cool guy and all, but I think you are 100% wrong here.

I will say though that a lot of people in this thread will just go with whatever you say, at least thats what it seems like.

You are like Jacob in a way...

LMAO

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 08:11 AM
http://spoilertv.iimmgg.com/image/fdc0191b3e34937982ffa9c3290b6802

tymania
05-24-2010, 08:13 AM
Great ending to LOST. Wasnt what i expected but i was satisfied with it. I think that they were all dead when they "crashed" on the island. And every one of the Losties "died" alone. So the whole island experience and everything was a path they were all destined for, to make connections and get what they were missing out of their lives before they passed on. Even though they were dead, the island was a place where the real world(the living) and the dead could interact and live together. The flash sideways was a world the losties made up, to find each other again before going to the after life. Jack never really had a son, it was made up because of the father issues he had with his father, so in the flash sideways, Jack had a son to be a better father to than his own father was to him. Desmond knew the whole time that the flash sideways wasnt the "real world" and he knew that everyone needed to reconnect to "let go" or "move on"..

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 08:17 AM
He wasnt The physic was exposed as a fraud. Darlton brought that up recently

What about 3 years of not being able to have a baby on the island and the "others" being interested in the baby and Walt and his special powers?

Rausch
05-24-2010, 08:24 AM
The writers/creators of the show make a huge point of saying that "what happened, happened."

The island was real. That happened. The island at the same time WAS a test. Just like my life or your life is a test (if you believe in a God/afterlife.)

Everyone on the island was given a chance at redemption.

Some took it and some didn't.

To me the point was driven home repeatedly. Perception.

We all perceive time differently. It's an experience different and unique to each person. Individual to each but shared by all. So is life.

All went through trials and tribulations on the island that made them different, and more selfless, people...

BigRedChief
05-24-2010, 08:28 AM
What about 3 years of not being able to have a baby on the island and the "others" being interested in the baby and Walt and his special powers?And the numbers?

And whats the point of the light? Is there some other point than to power the island in some way?

What about smokey getting off the island? How would that have killed all the losties?

patteeu
05-24-2010, 08:31 AM
Great ending to LOST. Wasnt what i expected but i was satisfied with it. I think that they were all dead when they "crashed" on the island. And every one of the Losties "died" alone. So the whole island experience and everything was a path they were all destined for, to make connections and get what they were missing out of their lives before they passed on. Even though they were dead, the island was a place where the real world(the living) and the dead could interact and live together. The flash sideways was a world the losties made up, to find each other again before going to the after life. Jack never really had a son, it was made up because of the father issues he had with his father, so in the flash sideways, Jack had a son to be a better father to than his own father was to him. Desmond knew the whole time that the flash sideways wasnt the "real world" and he knew that everyone needed to reconnect to "let go" or "move on"..

Desmond didn't know flash sideways wasn't real until Charlie caused his car to crash into the water.

The Rick
05-24-2010, 08:32 AM
The Island wasn't purgatory, the Flash Sideways was. The people who died in the story, died in the story. Those who didn't went on to live lives of different duration in stories not shown. For example, Hurley and Ben went on to protect the island for a period as the show stated [you WERE a great #1, and you WERE a great #2]. Eventually, all of them passed on, and it came to Desmond to round them up in purgatory/sideways, and get them to realize that they'd lived another life and move on to 'elsewhere' on the other side of the church doors.

What's kind of disappointing, though, is that all of those epiphanies, all those happy reunions, were for spectral remains, not people on the verge of a reunited life, rather an reunited afterlife. Who knows if in this world if they ever saw each other again.
Hence Desmond's signature line:

"I'll see you in another life, brother"

Moobs
05-24-2010, 08:35 AM
Jack has a tender conversation with the man he had clashed with so often before.

"I don't understand," says Jack. "You died."

"Yes, I did."

"Then how are you here right now?"

"How are YOU here?" his father (John Terry) replies.

"I died, too," says Jack, beginning to weep.

"That's OK, son."

And yet it's all real, his father assures him.

"Everything that's ever happened to you is real. All those people in the church, they're all real, too."

"They're all dead?" Jack asks.

"Everyone dies sometime, kiddo," his father replies gently.

Reaper16
05-24-2010, 08:42 AM
While I disagree with Dane's interpretation, it is my understanding that the camera focusing on Jack's eye lends credence to that idea.

Im s


This is not the case. Sorry even Darlton said so Another thing did you miss what is father said to him at the end? People dying before him and after him? Darlton gave a hint a awhile back THINK MATRIX

Everything happened on the island was real.
Well, except that a lot of Matrix fans think that the "real world" portions of the trilogy were actually in a second Matrix because of things like Neo seeing in code in "reality."

Rausch
05-24-2010, 08:46 AM
And the numbers?

Everything is connected.

Repeating patterns. The numbers were connected. The people were connected. All those numbers represented people and all those people needed each other (like all the numbers being together to win the lottery) to move on.

And whats the point of the light? Is there some other point than to power the island in some way?

Goodness.

God.

The light is always what allows you to fight off the darkness. Pick the symbolism you like best.

What about smokey getting off the island? How would that have killed all the losties?

The MIB was invulnerable, could mimic the look of anyone, and could turn into smoke and fuck $#it up at a whim.

Why WOULDN'T that be a bad thing to loose upon the world?...

Rausch
05-24-2010, 08:53 AM
While I disagree with Dane's interpretation, it is my understanding that the camera focusing on Jack's eye lends credence to that idea.

The opening eye was always an allusion to perception.

His change/understanding/final outlook on his perceptions were complete. He was done.

BigRedChief
05-24-2010, 09:21 AM
The opening eye was always an allusion to perception.

His change/understanding/final outlook on his perceptions were complete. He was done.Not to be a stickler for details but when people die their eyes don't close.

Frazod
05-24-2010, 09:23 AM
One thing I'm a bit confused about is the significance (or non-significance, if you will) of Jack's son. He only existed in the "purgatory" realm, and Juliet was his mother, and Juliet and Jack seemed happily married, and then BOOM there's Sawyer and Juliet making out by the candy machine and the kid's just gone.

Was the kid just a reflection of Jack's desire to have a normal life? Or Juliet's? While watching I wondered if the kid would end up being an older version of Aaron, but that didn't happen.

I'm so confused.

:banghead:

Great ending, though.

Mr. Plow
05-24-2010, 09:28 AM
Rumor is the Eko was supposed to be in the finale, but wanted 5x what they were offering him....


http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2010/05/eko-turned-down-finale-guest-spot.html


Ahh hell, it's not a spoiler anymore.....



Why didn't Mr. Eko come back?

It's one of the most asked questions about Lost's final season. After all, everyone else returned! So what gives?

Sources tell me exclusively:

Lost's Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje--who played the iconic Mr. Eko--was offered a guest spot in last night's Lost series finale, but he...wait for it...turned it down.

According to ABC and Lost insiders, Adewale was offered a hearty sum to do one scene in the last hurrah, but the actor wanted five times the amount that was offered. It didn't work out.

How and where would Adewale have popped up in the finale? I guess we'll never know, but he was definitely loved by many fans before his character's demise.

Eko (a warlord who pretended to be a priest in order to smuggle drugs) was the fifth character to die on Lost, after facing the Smoke Monster for a second time and getting attacked, and then telling Locke, "I saw the devil."

Producers have said their original plan was for Mr. Eko to stay on the show four seasons, but they released Adewale from his contract after only one season because he wanted off the Island.

PhillyChiefFan
05-24-2010, 09:30 AM
One thing I'm a bit confused about is the significance (or non-significance, if you will) of Jack's son. He only existed in the "purgatory" realm, and Juliet was his mother, and Juliet and Jack seemed happily married, and then BOOM there's Sawyer and Juliet making out by the candy machine and the kid's just gone.

Was the kid just a reflection of Jack's desire to have a normal life? Or Juliet's? While watching I wondered if the kid would end up being an older version of Aaron, but that didn't happen.

I'm so confused.

:banghead:

Great ending, though.

I don't think the point to that was Juliette, I believe it was Jack's desire to have a good relationship with a son, like he never had with his father. The whole Juliette and Jack part was irrelevant. He loved Kate, so he and Julliette , though father and mother to the son, wasn't relevant to the point.

Just my thought.

Frazod
05-24-2010, 09:33 AM
I guess in the end this show was sort of like the movie The Others, just set on an island instead of in a creepy old mansion.

patteeu
05-24-2010, 09:43 AM
One thing I'm a bit confused about is the significance (or non-significance, if you will) of Jack's son. He only existed in the "purgatory" realm, and Juliet was his mother, and Juliet and Jack seemed happily married, and then BOOM there's Sawyer and Juliet making out by the candy machine and the kid's just gone.

Was the kid just a reflection of Jack's desire to have a normal life? Or Juliet's? While watching I wondered if the kid would end up being an older version of Aaron, but that didn't happen.

I'm so confused.

:banghead:

Great ending, though.

Jack and Juliet were divorced/separated in the flash sideways world.

Huffmeister
05-24-2010, 09:45 AM
I wrote this somewhere else about the "unsolved mysteries":

And in a way, it was almost like the writers telling us that the unanswered questions didn't matter. All we need to know is that there really is a struggle between good and evil, and that the choices we make during our lives really DO MATTER. But when we die, those choices ultimately don't matter, and that there is a chance for redemption for everyone if we are able to work through it, accept it, and let go. Everything else - all of the unanswered questions, the fates of everyone else - don't really matter. They're just baggage that we, as viewers, need to let go in order to move on. So, in a way, it was a cop-out for not explaining everything. But it was about the best cop-out that they could have come up with, and the more I think about it, the more I really, REALLY like it. Because the show is ultimately about the characters and not the mysteries.

And I think you're 100% wrong if you think Jack didn't survive the Oceanic 815 crash.

EDIT: What happened, HAPPENED. (Except for the sideways flashes this season, which was purgatory.)

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:56 AM
You guys can tell me I'm "wrong" all you want.

It won't make any of you right.

The entire show, from the second Jack found himself in the jungle to the second he saw him lying in the jungle at the end, was all about Jack.

Jack was Jacob.

The MIB didn't have a name because he represented every obstacle Jack faced in his life. Jack was a "fixer" and in his mind, the entire show was a way to "fix" everyone's lives. There was no electromagnetism. The "Light" was Heaven (or the equivalent).

The reason the island was at the bottom of the sea was that it was the only way in Jack's mind that the plane would be safe and everyone could live their in happiness because in reality, the plane crashed and they were all dead.

I haven't read anyone elses interpretation of the show and regardless of what they say, this is the way that I interpret it.

And in the end, after all six seasons played out in Jack's head, he walked into the Light with his father.

Frazod
05-24-2010, 09:57 AM
Jack and Juliet were divorced/separated in the flash sideways world.

Oh shit, that's right. Duh.

Huffmeister
05-24-2010, 09:59 AM
I haven't read anyone elses interpretation of the show and regardless of what they say, this is the way that I interpret it.
And you are wrong ;)

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 10:01 AM
When did the lostees decide on creating the alt-timeline to meet each other and go into the afterlife together?

Reaper16
05-24-2010, 10:03 AM
When did the lostees decide on creating the alt-timeline to meet each other and go into the afterlife together?
Because people need other people and love and stuff and blah blah new age psuedo-spiritual intellectually bankrupt message of the show

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:06 AM
And you are wrong ;)

No, I'm not.

And the person that said I was wrong because he was wearing different clothes, I'll ask you this:

When you dream at night, do you always wear the same clothes as you wore that day?

He imagined it all.

You can chose to believe whatever you chose about the ending, which is why the producers left it ambiguous.

Considering the entire philosophical journey that we were taken on for 6 years, I hardly think the ending was meant to be literal.

But believe whatever you must.

Huffmeister
05-24-2010, 10:09 AM
Because people need other people and love and stuff and blah blah new age psuedo-spiritual intellectually bankrupt message of the show

Despite the fact that you admit to have only watched part of the first and last seasons, I had a feeling it wouldn't prevent you from turning your nose up at it. :)

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 10:13 AM
No, I'm not.

And the person that said I was wrong because he was wearing different clothes, I'll ask you this:

When you dream at night, do you always wear the same clothes as you wore that day?

He imagined it all.

You can chose to believe whatever you chose about the ending, which is why the producers left it ambiguous.

Considering the entire philosophical journey that we were taken on for 6 years, I hardly think the ending was meant to be literal.

But believe whatever you must.

Here's my grand theory, the entire 6 years is nothing more than a television show filmed for a channel called ABC which airs it along with commercials for pecuniary gain.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 10:14 AM
No, I'm not.

And the person that said I was wrong because he was wearing different clothes, I'll ask you this:

When you dream at night, do you always wear the same clothes as you wore that day?

He imagined it all.

You can chose to believe whatever you chose about the ending, which is why the producers left it ambiguous.

Considering the entire philosophical journey that we were taken on for 6 years, I hardly think the ending was meant to be literal.

But believe whatever you must.

I'm not sure you are completely wrong. I think the "candidates" all imagined it at the same time when the plane crashed. None of them were ready to accept death and they all created this universe together to help each other move on. The focus was on Jack though.

"This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you."

Huffmeister
05-24-2010, 10:18 AM
And the person that said I was wrong because he was wearing different clothes, I'll ask you this:

When you dream at night, do you always wear the same clothes as you wore that day?

He imagined it all.

You can chose to believe whatever you chose about the ending, which is why the producers left it ambiguous.
That's cool that you interpreted it the way you did, I just didn't get your comment that you didn't understand why other CPers couldn't see it, too. You implied that you were right and everyone else was wrong (and an idiot for not seeing your truth). I'm just disagreeing.

And if it was all in Jack's mind, based on your theory, it could have all been in Vincent's mind. I think there's a lot of clues and evidence that you're glossing over.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:22 AM
That's cool that you interpreted it the way you did, I just didn't get your comment that you didn't understand why other CPers couldn't see it, too. You implied that you were right and everyone else was wrong (and an idiot for not seeing your truth). I'm just disagreeing.

And if it was all in Jack's mind, based on your theory, it could have all been in Vincent's mind. I think there's a lot of clues and evidence that you're glossing over.

I didn't make that comment as an insult. I made the comment because to me, it was as clear as the nose on Jack's face.

I apologize if I offended.

PhillyChiefFan
05-24-2010, 10:22 AM
I thought it was a fitting ending, didn't answer all the questions but it did bring home the point to the show, relationships and redemption, good and evil anything you care to draw from it.

Personally, I believe they survived the crash. The numbers drew them to the island to redeem themselves for the things they had done in life. One by one, they died on the island Jack was the last to have his epiphany, and they were all in the flashsideways waiting for Jack. When Jack began to die his two story lines crossed, hence his bleeding neck.

He woke John Locke up after surgery, and right before surgery he said to Locke "If I can fix you Mr. Locke, then I can be at peace." And he did, waking Locke up in the process, that's why Locke said you don't have a son, and I hope someone does for you what you did for me. Meaning Jack woke him up to the truth, and he knew right then where he was, but Jack didn't. The same realization that Sun and Jin came to in the hospital.

As for the smoke monster, I think the reason he had no name was because he represented all the people who were trapped in between life and death and couldn't move on. Which is why you can see faces in the smoke monster and hear voices in the jungle before he strikes. Jacob was the gatekeeper to the afterlife

Hurley and Ben were Jacob/Richard Alpert for the island for maybe YEARS after Jack died, but when they died or found someone to replace them, they learned of their purgatory before Jack did, hence why they were waiting for Jack. That's also why Christian said "they're (purgatory or whatever he called it) could last a nanosecond or could last centuries." Jack's just took longer.

Ben began to understand the moment Rosseau told him that Alex looked at him like a father, he started to cry right then, because IMO he understood that was his epiphany. And wanted to wait for Alex and Rosseau before moving on, also I believe there is a part of him that felt he wasn't deservant to cross with them. Lepedis, Miles, Charlotte, Daniel Whidmore, everyone else, wasn't ready to cross over.

Just my thoughts, for what it's worth I really enjoyed the whole fate element to everyone showing up to the concert and how all their paths met again, very similar to what brought them all together in the first place leading up to the plane crash.

Huffmeister
05-24-2010, 10:26 AM
I didn't make that comment as an insult. I made the comment because to me, it was as clear as the nose on Jack's face.

I apologize if I offended.

Nah, it's all good. I thought you were entering the arrogance-zone and was just flipping you some crap. We'll just agree to disagree about what the "reality" of Lost was (which, ultimately, no one can know for sure).

teedubya
05-24-2010, 10:29 AM
I wonder what this show would have been like if J.J. Abrams hadn't left the show....

Also, if the island were just a dream, The Oceanic 6 wouldn't have left the island, right?

teedubya
05-24-2010, 10:32 AM
I didn't make that comment as an insult. I made the comment because to me, it was as clear as the nose on Jack's face.

I apologize if I offended.

The actor who played Jack Shepard, didn't think your theory was correct during the Jimmy Kimmell interview.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:36 AM
The actor who played Jack Shepard, didn't think your theory was correct during the Jimmy Kimmell interview.

I didn't watch it but I think the writers left the ending open to interpretation for a reason. And that reason is that that everyone would be talking about it for years on end.

If they wrapped it up all in a nice little package with a bow on top, it would have been in direct contradiction to the past 122 or whatever episodes.

Moobs
05-24-2010, 10:36 AM
The actor who played Jack Shepard, didn't think your theory was correct during the Jimmy Kimmell interview.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RCXlLNWRULo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RCXlLNWRULo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

You beat me to it. They start talking about 'what is real' at the 1:00 minute mark.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 10:38 AM
The actor who played Jack Shepard, didn't think your theory was correct during the Jimmy Kimmell interview.

I thought he agreed with Kimmel that he "died" when the plane hit turbulence?

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 10:42 AM
I thought he agreed with Kimmel that he "died" when the plane hit turbulence?

He agreed that it was a possibility.

But remember, as this is the sideways [however you wish to term it], there isn't a 'when' the plane hit turbulence, as time is immaterial. I take it as the spot where Jack entered the sideways, WHEN in our time he died on the island. All of those on the plane may or may not enter the sideways at that point whenever it is that they die.

Rausch
05-24-2010, 10:47 AM
I thought he agreed with Kimmel that he "died" when the plane hit turbulence?

He was dead when that happened.

The whole flash sideways started the "afterlife."

The whole series also tends to lean heavily on "The Last Temptation Of Christ" as much as that will piss people off...

Rausch
05-24-2010, 10:48 AM
Oh, and if anyone can post links to the alternate endings that would me much appreciated.

I had to leave for work the second the show ended...

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 10:50 AM
I didn't make that comment as an insult. I made the comment because to me, it was as clear as the nose on Jack's face.

I apologize if I offended.


Darlton said that everything that happened on the island was real. So with your belief you are wrong. They said the sideways was think matrix.

If you say is true why would he have all those people with him if he never met them before?

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 10:52 AM
Oh, and if anyone can post links to the alternate endings that would me much appreciated.

I had to leave for work the second the show ended...

Best I can do is the whole show. Alternate clips are in the next to last section [denoted by the bands where commercials are inserted.

Must say it's not mind-blowing

Just basically remakes of other finales with Lost cast

http://abc.go.com/watch/jimmy-kimmel-live/93521/262014/aloha-to-lost?cid=fullepisodeaccess

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 10:56 AM
He agreed that it was a possibility.

But remember, as this is the sideways [however you wish to term it], there isn't a 'when' the plane hit turbulence, as time is immaterial. I take it as the spot where Jack entered the sideways, WHEN in our time he died on the island. All of those on the plane may or may not enter the sideways at that point whenever it is that they die.

Was it sideways or flashback?

Rausch
05-24-2010, 10:58 AM
Best I can do is the whole show. Alternate clips are in the next to last section [denoted by the bands where commercials are inserted.

Must say it's not mind-blowing

Just basically remakes of other finales with Lost cast

http://abc.go.com/watch/jimmy-kimmel-live/93521/262014/aloha-to-lost?cid=fullepisodeaccess

I can't get it to load after the "presented with limited commercials" intro.

Not sure WTF is up...

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 10:59 AM
Was it sideways or flashback?

Sideways, this season's season premiere, picking up in storytelling timeline immediately after Juliet 'sploded the bomb.

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 11:02 AM
I can't get it to load after the "presented with limited commercials" intro.

Not sure WTF is up...

Maybe it's getting blasted. I watched there because my DVR didn't record despite me setting it up. But I watched in the wee morning hours.

I will say, when it goes to commercial it shows that there's xx seconds before they return to the show. If nothing's happening look in the upper left corner and see if there's a countdown going.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 11:16 AM
I'm not convinced the island was "real". IMO, the plane crashed and the survivors all entered (I won't call it purgatory) a new world where they must meet their own "tests" and "challenges" before they are willing to move on again toward the light.

Mr. Plow
05-24-2010, 11:17 AM
The MIB didn't have a name because he represented every obstacle Jack faced in his life.

Not sure how accurate, but......

Insiders tell me that the Man in Black did have a name in the script, but the Powers that Be decided not to spill it. It was Samuel.

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 11:27 AM
No, I'm not.

And the person that said I was wrong because he was wearing different clothes, I'll ask you this:

When you dream at night, do you always wear the same clothes as you wore that day?

What? What does this even mean? If your contention is that he dreamed it all from the minute he was laying on the ground after the crash, he would have to be wearing the same clothes at the end of the show. Not only that, but how do you explain the haircut, neck, stab wound, blood? You can't, but I'd love to see you try.

You can chose to believe whatever you chose about the ending, which is why the producers left it ambiguous.

Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".

With that, Hurley telling Ben he was a "great number 2" (because I assume they lived out the rest of their lives on the island) and Kate telling Jack how much she missed him (probably lived a long life without him) they basically did everything but put up a subtitle at the end of the show that read "HEY GUYS SEE IT WAS ALL REAL, NOT A DREAM!"

Rausch
05-24-2010, 11:33 AM
Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".

No.

The whole show was about having or not having faith and what that means.

The characters even stated over and over that "I believe in you." Locke and Jack struggled with faith the whole series. Locke stated "I wish you would have believed/trusted me." ETC.

What you have faith in is unimportant, it's the idea that you believe things will work out for the best in the end.

Once they do whatever meaning you place on that is up to you...

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 11:39 AM
No.

The whole show was about having or not having faith and what that means.

The characters even stated over and over that "I believe in you." Locke and Jack struggled with faith the whole series. Locke stated "I wish you would have believed/trusted me." ETC.

What you have faith in is unimportant, it's the idea that you believe things will work out for the best in the end.

Once they do whatever meaning you place on that is up to you...

Uh..OK. Why did you say NO? How does that disprove what I said? What does it even have to do with what I said?

For the record, I agree with you - Jack had to become a different person to help save the Island (and the world, ultimately), a person like John Locke, a person of faith. It's called a character arc, just like everyone else in the show had. Everyone in the show became a different/better person before they died.. and then once they died, they met up together in that "inbetween" world to move on together. What's so hard to understand about this?

Rausch
05-24-2010, 11:48 AM
For the record, I agree with you - Jack had to become a different person to help save the Island (and the world, ultimately), a person like John Locke, a person of faith. It's called a character arc, just like everyone else in the show had. Everyone in the show became a different/better person before they died.. and then once they died, they met up together in that "inbetween" world to move on together. What's so hard to understand about this?

Nothing.

I'm just saying that they did leave it ambiguous, and on purpose.

Was it just Jack's elaborate fever dream before death, his life/imagination flashing before him in his final moments?

Did they all really do everything, all seek and get redemption, and then all really meet up after death in a better place?

To me it really doesn't matter. The message is the same...

The Rick
05-24-2010, 11:50 AM
Quoted from an article in the USA Today. I think they sum up what happened nicely:
As it turns out, those now-beloved characters weren't just lost in the real world of the island. They were also lost in what many had assumed was an alternate "sideways" universe triggered by last season's atom bomb but was actually a gathering place for the dead as they wait to move on.

In many ways, the finale was designed to reaffirm what producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse have told us for years: The island exists; what happens there matters. If the light (which looked far less cheesy this week than last) had stayed out, the world would have ended.

But they also were reminding us that ultimately, for individuals, saving the world only delays the inevitable. We all die.

So in some ways the 2½-hour finale was two journeys, both centered on Jack, each illustrating the themes of individual redemption and group responsibility. On our world, he saved the island, handed the guardian job to Hurley, and died. (For the record, Kate, Sawyer, Claire, Miles, Richard, Lapidus and Desmond eventually left the island; Hurley and Ben stayed.) In the other world, the post-life purgatory where "now" does not exist, he was the final piece that reunited the characters and allowed all to leave — a reawakening of memories, theirs and ours, any fan had to cherish.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/reviews/2010-05-24-lostreview24_ST_N.htm?csp=hf

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 11:57 AM
Nothing.

I'm just saying that they did leave it ambiguous, and on purpose.

Was it just Jack's elaborate fever dream before death, his life/imagination flashing before him in his final moments?

Did they all really do everything, all seek and get redemption, and then all really meet up after death in a better place?

To me it really doesn't matter. The message is the same...

But they didnt. Certainly, the show was about faith, finding faith and what it means, etc. The END, again, is spelled out clear as day with all the things I stated earlier. Cuse/Lindelof basically did everything in that finale they could to purposely get across the point that it WASN'T all a dream and that everything on the Island was real and happened for a reason. Basically, to help them overcome whatever they needed to overcome and get them into that church at the end.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 12:03 PM
What? What does this even mean? If your contention is that he dreamed it all from the minute he was laying on the ground after the crash, he would have to be wearing the same clothes at the end of the show. Not only that, but how do you explain the haircut, neck, stab wound, blood? You can't, but I'd love to see you try.

Love to see me try? What's your problem?

First off, the reason that Jack has had blood on his neck inexplicably throughout this season is because he's actually been dead this entire time. As for the clothes, I explained this earlier: When you dream, are you wearing the same clothes you wore that day?

Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".

With that, Hurley telling Ben he was a "great number 2" (because I assume they lived out the rest of their lives on the island) and Kate telling Jack how much she missed him (probably lived a long life without him) they basically did everything but put up a subtitle at the end of the show that read "HEY GUYS SEE IT WAS ALL REAL, NOT A DREAM!"

That's YOUR interpretation, not mine.

This entire show was about one man's journey. His personal struggle with science versus faith. He was not going to "heaven" until he found faith. Everything else was created in his mind as a way to get there.

As I stated earlier, believe what you want to believe. I'm not here to change anyone's mind.

patteeu
05-24-2010, 12:05 PM
What? What does this even mean? If your contention is that he dreamed it all from the minute he was laying on the ground after the crash, he would have to be wearing the same clothes at the end of the show. Not only that, but how do you explain the haircut, neck, stab wound, blood? You can't, but I'd love to see you try.



Except, they really didn't leave it ambiguous at all. In fact, they pretty much spelled out exactly what happened in the Jack-Christian conversation, lest anyone believe something dumb like "OMG it was all a dream!" when Christian told Jack that "it was all real" and that "they all died at different times".

With that, Hurley telling Ben he was a "great number 2" (because I assume they lived out the rest of their lives on the island) and Kate telling Jack how much she missed him (probably lived a long life without him) they basically did everything but put up a subtitle at the end of the show that read "HEY GUYS SEE IT WAS ALL REAL, NOT A DREAM!"

FTR, I interpreted it pretty much the way you did, but I'll point out that if it was all Jack's dream, it's completely possible for Jack to dream he's a changed person at the end (complete with different haircut and different clothes) and for him to dream that his father told him it was all real.

Rausch
05-24-2010, 12:05 PM
But they didnt. Certainly, the show was about faith, finding faith and what it means, etc. The END, again, is spelled out clear as day with all the things I stated earlier. Cuse/Lindelof basically did everything in that finale they could to purposely get across the point that it WASN'T all a dream and that everything on the Island was real and happened for a reason. Basically, to help them overcome whatever they needed to overcome and get them into that church at the end.

I agree with you on the ending, BTW.

It is linear when you think about it. And I think the writers did a great job blending faith and science.

Religion: Man's attempt to understand why God does what he does.

Science: Man's attempt to understand how God does it...

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 12:09 PM
FTR, I interpreted it pretty much the way you did, but I'll point out that if it was all Jack's dream, it's completely possible for Jack to dream he's a changed person at the end (complete with different haircut and different clothes) and for him to dream that his father told him it was all real.


Sure, if it was all a dream - but to believe that you'd have to stubbornly read way too deeply between the lines and believe that everything the show told you in this episode was a lie. There's virtually here that lends credence to it being Jack's dream. To think that it was is nothing less than foolish.

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 12:11 PM
That's YOUR interpretation, not mine.

This entire show was about one man's journey. His personal struggle with science versus faith. He was not going to "heaven" until he found faith. Everything else was created in his mind as a way to get there.

As I stated earlier, believe what you want to believe. I'm not here to change anyone's mind.

So your interpretation is that when Christian tells Jack (and the audience) that it was real, he's really lying? And that when he tells Jack that the characters all died at different times, but ended up here to be together, that he's just spewing BS because those people are all figments of Jack's imagination? And that when Hurley tells Ben he was a "great number 2" in a scene that had nothing to do with Jack, that is uh...what? Something in Jack's head too? I think you had this grand scheme of how you thought it would end and are having trouble reconciling that with the reality of what actually happened in this episode.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 12:15 PM
Sure, if it was all a dream - but to believe that you'd have to stubbornly read way too deeply between the lines and believe that everything the show told you in this episode was a lie. There's virtually here that lends credence to it being Jack's dream. To think that it was is nothing less than foolish.

I think you've missed the point of the entire series:

This whole show, from beginning to end, was Jack's journey from being a Man of Science to becoming a Man of Faith. Once he was able to have faith, he was able to move on in death.

The rest of the characters and backstory were flesh out in the past 6 years to make it more "real" but in the end, it was all about Jack.

Also, staying away from "the light" was just a plot device. Jack wasn't ready to enter the light until he had successfully battled all of his demons and became a man of faith.

But again, you can believe whatever you choose to believe.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 12:16 PM
So your interpretation is that when Christian tells Jack (and the audience) that it was real, he's really lying? And that when he tells Jack that the characters all died at different times, but ended up here to be together, that he's just spewing BS because those people are all figments of Jack's imagination? And that when Hurley tells Ben he was a "great number 2" in a scene that had nothing to do with Jack, that is uh...what? Something in Jack's head too? I think you had this grand scheme of how you thought it would end and are having trouble reconciling that with the reality of what actually happened in this episode.

Actually, I think you're the type of person that needs a straight line explanation and are unable to think outside of the "box".

I'm happy for you but we'll just agree to disagree, okay?

teedubya
05-24-2010, 12:20 PM
Well, if it was Jack's dream, he should have PIITB of Kate numerous times during the six seasons... cuz if it was MY dream, I'd of done it every episode.

Rausch
05-24-2010, 12:21 PM
I think you've missed the point of the entire series:

This whole show, from beginning to end, was Jack's journey from being a Man of Science to becoming a Man of Faith. Once he was able to have faith, he was able to move on in death.

The rest of the characters and backstory were flesh out in the past 6 years to make it more "real" but in the end, it was all about Jack.

Also, staying away from "the light" was just a plot device. Jack wasn't ready to enter the light until he had successfully battled all of his demons and became a man of faith.

But again, you can believe whatever you choose to believe.

He was clearly the main character.

He was Luke Skywalker.

That doesn't make him the whole story...

Rausch
05-24-2010, 12:21 PM
Well, if it was Jack's dream, he should have PIITB of Kate numerous times during the six seasons... cuz if it was MY dream, I'd of done it every episode.

I know I did...

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 12:22 PM
I think you've missed the point of the entire series:

This whole show, from beginning to end, was Jack's journey from being a Man of Science to becoming a Man of Faith. Once he was able to have faith, he was able to move on in death.

The rest of the characters and backstory were flesh out in the past 6 years to make it more "real" but in the end, it was all about Jack.

Also, staying away from "the light" was just a plot device. Jack wasn't ready to enter the light until he had successfully battled all of his demons and became a man of faith.

But again, you can believe whatever you choose to believe.

No, the show was about everyone's journey. Jack was the star of the show, but it's an ensemble piece. Everyone had a journey. Example: Sayid was a bad person most of his life, but ultimately dies a hero, sacrificing himself to save everyone else on the sub. Pretty much everyone had a character arc and became a better person in the end. Once again, Jack's was the most centralized because he was the star of the show, but he wasn't the WHOLE show.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 12:22 PM
He was clearly the main character.

He was Luke Skywalker.

That doesn't make him the whole story...

Exactly

Jim Jones
05-24-2010, 12:25 PM
Actually, I think you're the type of person that needs a straight line explanation and are unable to think outside of the "box".

I'm happy for you but we'll just agree to disagree, okay?

I find it ironic that I'd be told I can't think outside the box when I'm following a show that involves people with magic powers, a mystical island and a light that controls the lives of everyone in the world. Yeah, I totally can't think outside the box.

The problem is, you're trying to think too far outside the box, and maybe the show has trained you this way. However, I think the writers warned against stuff like this in "Across the Sea" when Jacob tells Kate that the names in the cave were just "Lines of chalk on a wall" - after all the bickering and back-and-forth and analyzing screencaps that people did, that scene was basically them saying, "Look, half the shit you guys obsess over doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme. Stop reading between the lines on everything."

Rausch
05-24-2010, 12:26 PM
The problem is, you're trying to think too far outside the box, and maybe the show has trained you this way. However, I think the writers warned against stuff like this in "Across the Sea" when Jacob tells Kate that the names in the cave were just "Lines of chalk on a wall" - after all the bickering and back-and-forth and analyzing screencaps that people did, that scene was basically them saying, "Look, half the shit you guys obsess over doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme. Stop reading between the lines on everything."

I took it to mean "YOU are all making your own individual choices here, not me.

I'M not choosing $3it..."

teedubya
05-24-2010, 12:28 PM
On the Jimmy Kimmell show, Matthew Fox mentioned that he figured that he knew what the final scene of him would be... since the series opened with him opening his eyes... the series would close with him closing his eyes.

Can't believe that I didn't think of that.

Rausch
05-24-2010, 12:30 PM
On the Jimmy Kimmell show, Matthew Fox mentioned that he figured that he knew what the final scene of him would be... since the series opened with him opening his eyes... the series would close with him closing his eyes.

Can't believe that I didn't think of that.

Life and death.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 12:32 PM
If it wasn't a "dream" then why did Jack have to die in the exact same spot as the beginning of the story?

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Exactly

First need to clarify this star wars was about Anakin from begining to end. Lucas even said so

I do agree it was all about Jack

But I asked this twice I think you are afraid to answer because you know your theory is wrong so I'm going to ask again

If Darlton said the island was real and everything that hsppened there really happened and mattered why not believe that? Darlton said every event that hsppened on the island was real it actually happened

Rausch
05-24-2010, 12:43 PM
First need to clarify this star wars was about Anakin from begining to end. Lucas even said so


Once he decided to make 3 more flicks and include Anakin as his main character.

And, not the right thread for this argument...

PhillyChiefFan
05-24-2010, 12:47 PM
I find it ironic that I'd be told I can't think outside the box when I'm following a show that involves people with magic powers, a mystical island and a light that controls the lives of everyone in the world. Yeah, I totally can't think outside the box.

The problem is, you're trying to think too far outside the box, and maybe the show has trained you this way. However, I think the writers warned against stuff like this in "Across the Sea" when Jacob tells Kate that the names in the cave were just "Lines of chalk on a wall" - after all the bickering and back-and-forth and analyzing screencaps that people did, that scene was basically them saying, "Look, half the shit you guys obsess over doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme. Stop reading between the lines on everything."

I took it that way when Jacob told the group that they were just names on a wall, and that Kate's name could be put back up there if she wished.

I took that like the writers were saying stop overthinking it and just enjoy the ride. And it kind of worked on me, I really enjoyed the ending. It made sense and though all the questions weren't answered it fit.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 12:48 PM
Once he decided to make 3 more flicks and include Anakin as his main character.

And, not the right thread for this argument...

It was always about Anakin I just had to clarify. Even from the initial stages when developing the story. Lucas said

also lots of star wars references in lost

Frazod
05-24-2010, 12:55 PM
It was always about Anakin I just had to clarify. Even from the initial stages when developing the story. Lucas said

also lots of star wars references in lost

I thought about that when Hurley said "I've got a bad feeling about this" last night. :D

Baby Lee
05-24-2010, 12:56 PM
Actually, I think you're the type of person that needs a straight line explanation and are unable to think outside of the "box".

I'm happy for you but we'll just agree to disagree, okay?

I don't know why you think your interpretation is 'thinking outside the box.' Honestly, I don't know how your interpretation is all that different than my 'theory' that this was a show about nothing more than being a show on ABC from 2004-2010. If it's all in Jack's mind, then it's all just a story, something to be told episodically on prime time television. No one else means jack or squat, all their character arcs are just stories dreamed up about strangers. 'What they died for' means jack squat. Whatever shortcomings the series has in retrospect, it's exponentially more satisfying than the story you're telling.

Moobs
05-24-2010, 01:00 PM
Now that I've digested the finale a bit, I think I'm happy all of Lost's mysteries were either not answered, or left to interpretation. I certainly knew coming in that this would most likely be the case, but I'm surprised that so many people expected differently.

If they had a two and a half finale of all answers, I a) don't think it would have been a good show and b) taken some of the fun away of what Lost has been this whole time.

It was a very thought provoking series, that existed outside of its time slot, on the internet, water cooler, etc. It's going to be fun to rewatch the series and let the imagination flow again.

kysirsoze
05-24-2010, 01:09 PM
I'm not convinced the island was "real". IMO, the plane crashed and the survivors all entered (I won't call it purgatory) a new world where they must meet their own "tests" and "challenges" before they are willing to move on again toward the light.

Obviously you're free to believe what you want, but "they're all dead" is the one outcome that the creators ruled out almost from the beginning and continue to deny.

kysirsoze
05-24-2010, 01:09 PM
If it wasn't a "dream" then why did Jack have to die in the exact same spot as the beginning of the story?

He didn't have to. It was just a cool bookend image for the show.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 01:23 PM
Obviously you're free to believe what you want, but "they're all dead" is the one outcome that the creators ruled out almost from the beginning and continue to deny.

They also ruled out time travel one time.

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 02:01 PM
People are seriously advancing it was Jack's dream?

Mr Luzcious
05-24-2010, 02:09 PM
People are seriously advancing it was Jack's dream?

Some people are really, really over-thinking this.

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 02:12 PM
Some people are really, really over-thinking this.

That and a reliance on zero evidence.

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 02:16 PM
My quick takes:


Alt timeline being a psuedo-heaven really killed the amazing potential and climactic nature of Dez's mission. In fact, I thought his mission would make a great entire season.
Superb character moments. I really enjoyed all of the flashes.
Giachinno's score was fantastic, as usual.
Last five minutes are the only question mark within the finale.
I still think the show had a good season left in its tank. This season opened up some awesome possibilities but only half baked them. (Dez mission, for one)
The cyclical set up (Hurley = Jacob, Jack = MIB, Ben = Richard) was fitting.
LAPIDUS!

Dez needs his own show.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 02:17 PM
That and a reliance on zero evidence.

Here is theory from the Dark UFO website. Call it a dream, Narnia, Oz, whatever you want:

Anyway, my immediate reaction to the ending of the episode was, "Oh, this has a lot in common with The Chronicles of Narnia. I wonder if the writers are conscious of that?" They did name Charlotte after C.S. Lewis, the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, so it seemed likely. But after only about three seconds of browsing on Lostpedia, I found this little interview with Darlton where they said the following: "So much of LOST is based on our shared love for the great stories of our childhood (Narnia for Carlton, Oz for Damon)." And the events and themes of Oz really line up with Lost's ending, too.

Concerning, C.S. Lewis's work, Narnia is a magical world that acts as a sort of escape for many different people from our world. Narnia is often in need of protection from these people, but it also teaches them much about themselves and offers them second chances to grow as individuals. The point, though, is that the version of Narnia that the characters visit is not the definitive Narnia. There is in fact a more perfect Narnia beyond it. And beyond that, it's implied that there exists an even more wonderful Narnia. As they continued to move in, each world is bigger and more beautiful than the one before it.

Oz echoes the same theme, though a little more simply. While in the movie, Dorothy comes back to Kansas, in the books, she eventually goes back to Oz along with Uncle Henry and Aunt Em, and they reside there permanently. In both cases, the characters could be said to have "died" and moved on to the next world, but whether they actually did die or not is sort of unimportant. They've traveled from one reality to the next - call it death, or whatever you wish.

This is exactly what happened on Lost, and has been happening since the beginning. The first world that we were shown was the characters' lives before the crash. They were weighed down by many struggles and disappointments and issues. Then the crash happens and they move to the next world. Some will say that the vehicle of this transportation was death - they all died in the plane crash, and were moved to the next world, a sort of Purgatory Step One, or something. But it doesn't really matter whether they actually all died in the crash or not, because they next world - the island - is real to them, alive or dead.

The island is a more perfect world than their previous one. Note: it's not perfect, it's more perfect. Their lives are for the most part better. They gain a sense of place and community. Many apply the skills and personalities from the former world while letting going of the baggage that weighed them down. They do this by first remembering the other world. What do you think the flashbacks that we were shown all of seasons 1, 2and 3 actually were? We were watching the characters reflect on their previous lives and let go of the bad parts in order to move forward with the good parts, just as they did in the flash-sideways last night.

I would like to suggest that the island is "magical" in order to facilitate a more perfect world. There is an energy on the island. The science people, like the Dharma folk, will explain it as electromagnetic anomalies, the mythological or religious will explain it as the heart of the island, etc., but its fulfills a role. It heals John Locke's paralysis. It allows Jin and Sun to have a baby. It gives Jack something worth protecting, saving and fixing.

I think the finale makes the argument that at some point, every character is ready for the next world. Some take longer than others. Some may even regress to a worse world, now and then (as I believe may have been what happened to the Oceanic 6 when they left the island). Some may be forced to repeat a world in a different role (as I believe could be a more proper explanation for the whispers - they are people who aren't quite ready for the next world, and will only let go of the necessary baggage by aiding and guiding others to the next world). But eventually, everyone gets there.

The flash-sideways timeline (that name doesn't really fit anymore, but I'll use it for convenience) does, I think, fit my definition of a more perfect world than the island reality. The characters are for the most part happier and more well-rounded. I know what you're thinking, "But how can the flash-sideways be more special than a magical island?" To which I answer, "the flash-sideways is absolutely magical, too." And I'm not just saying that because it's inhabited by dead people. This reality has been breaking the rules of a normal universe all season. At least a week elapses for John Locke, Desmond, Kate, Sawyer, Claire and Hurley between 815 landing and the concert happening. Sayid, Jin and Sun, though, only go through one or two days. Sun and Jin are apprehended by Keamy the morning after arriving in Los Angeles. That same day, Sun is accidentally shot. She arrives at the hospital at the same time as John Locke, who was run over by Desmond at least a week after getting back from the flight (John couldn't have been fired, gone to the temp agency, been placed as a substitute teacher and substituted for a variety of classes all within 24 hours of getting back to LA).

Also, when John agrees to the surgery it is already the day of the concert. There is no way he could have gone through all the prep work and actually undergone the surgery that same night. Remember how long Jack prepared for his surgery on the Italian Guy in the flashbacks of "The Hunting Party"? I'm not trying to point out continuity errors, I'm just arguing that the flash-sideways has a magical timelessness to it that makes it special.

Maybe the flash-sideways wasn't a proper next world. Maybe it was more of a waiting room of sorts. But in order to progress through it, the characters had to do basically the same thing that they did on the island: have flashbacks to the previous world. And then, once they've used these memories to correct the flaws that made them unworthy and unready for the next world, it's time to move on.

We don't know what the next world is like. Or any of the worlds after, for that matter. What we've seen was just progress - a process of perfecting flaws, growing closer together, and moving into a better and better life.

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 02:20 PM
Well, at least that views both timelines as separate worlds, as it were.

I disagree, but it is a good take.

kysirsoze
05-24-2010, 02:30 PM
I like that take, but I would maintain that the island was still a part of the living world. Otherwise I don't see how they could go back ala the flash forwards. I suppose that could be a world closer resembling hell, but I don't buy it. Mainly because it was in that world that Kate found her purpose and the thing that took her out of Jacob's candidacy. Motherhood.

Reaper16
05-24-2010, 02:39 PM
Maybe the flash-sideways wasn't a proper next world. Maybe it was more of a waiting room of sorts. But in order to progress through it, the characters had to do basically the same thing that they did on the island: have flashbacks to the previous world. And then, once they've used these memories to correct the flaws that made them unworthy and unready for the next world, it's time to move on.

We don't know what the next world is like. Or any of the worlds after, for that matter. What we've seen was just progress - a process of perfecting flaws, growing closer together, and moving into a better and better life.

I was having similar thoughts (and I know very little about the show) until the explanation of it all from Jack's dad. I felt like there could be a next world, perhaps any number of additional alt-timelines, in which things would play out differently but end pretty much the same. It alluded to reincarnation, yes, but more strongly to Nietzche's notion of the Eternal Recurrence.

I spoke that thought out loud last night, at which point my friend Nalla told me "Stop it. The minute you try and bring legitimate philosophy into this is the minute that the show's creators win." Then we went on to making jokes about how the Lost writers didn't really have a good idea of what they show meant. Then we watched Breaking Bad, a decidedly non-spiritual show that consequently has things to say about the world (a non-spiritual one) that real humans live in.

I plan on watching all of LOST right after I finish playing through Super Mario Galaxy 2 just to see how off I am about my impressions.

Buck
05-24-2010, 05:05 PM
I was having similar thoughts (and I know very little about the show) until the explanation of it all from Jack's dad. I felt like there could be a next world, perhaps any number of additional alt-timelines, in which things would play out differently but end pretty much the same. It alluded to reincarnation, yes, but more strongly to Nietzche's notion of the Eternal Recurrence.

I spoke that thought out loud last night, at which point my friend Nalla told me "Stop it. The minute you try and bring legitimate philosophy into this is the minute that the show's creators win." Then we went on to making jokes about how the Lost writers didn't really have a good idea of what they show meant. Then we watched Breaking Bad, a decidedly non-spiritual show that consequently has things to say about the world (a non-spiritual one) that real humans live in.

I plan on watching all of LOST right after I finish playing through Super Mario Galaxy 2 just to see how off I am about my impressions.

I wish you hadn't watched the finale, but there will still be some good stuff. Also SMG2 ftw.
Posted via Mobile Device

Guru
05-24-2010, 05:07 PM
I don't know why you think your interpretation is 'thinking outside the box.' Honestly, I don't know how your interpretation is all that different than my 'theory' that this was a show about nothing more than being a show on ABC from 2004-2010. If it's all in Jack's mind, then it's all just a story, something to be told episodically on prime time television. No one else means jack or squat, all their character arcs are just stories dreamed up about strangers. 'What they died for' means jack squat. Whatever shortcomings the series has in retrospect, it's exponentially more satisfying than the story you're telling.

sorry, but I am not interested in seeing jack squat.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 05:17 PM
I don't know why you think your interpretation is 'thinking outside the box.' Honestly, I don't know how your interpretation is all that different than my 'theory' that this was a show about nothing more than being a show on ABC from 2004-2010. If it's all in Jack's mind, then it's all just a story, something to be told episodically on prime time television. No one else means jack or squat, all their character arcs are just stories dreamed up about strangers. 'What they died for' means jack squat. Whatever shortcomings the series has in retrospect, it's exponentially more satisfying than the story you're telling.

That may be true. But it doesn't mean that I'm incorrect.

The show runners made the show about Jack and his journey for "redemption". They've stated on several occasions that they knew exactly how the show would end, they just needed to know how much time they'd have to flesh out the back stories of the other characters.

Now, that doesn't mean that as a TV show, the other characters were meaningless because in the bigger picture, Jack needed those people to grow and move on to the next world. But in the end, it was Jack's story. If the show had ended after season three, it would have ended the same exact way for Jack.

And despite what some people are suggesting, all of the passengers on flight 815 were dead.

The end credits where they show the wreckage with absolutely no sign of life prove it.

Buck
05-24-2010, 05:21 PM
That may be true. But it doesn't mean that I'm incorrect.

The show runners made the show about Jack and his journey for "redemption". They've stated on several occasions that they knew exactly how the show would end, they just needed to know how much time they'd have to flesh out the back stories of the other characters.

Now, that doesn't mean that as a TV show, the other characters were meaningless because in the bigger picture, Jack needed those people to grow and move on to the next world. But in the end, it was Jack's story. If the show had ended after season three, it would have ended the same exact way for Jack.

And despite what some people are suggesting, all of the passengers on flight 815 were dead.

The end credits where they show the wreckage with absolutely no sign of life prove it.

Dane, whats sort of pissing me off is your "I'm right and I'm not even going to give anyone elses theory a chance" attitude.

I gave your theory a read, but just the way that you put it, almost insulting our intelligence for not seeing it the same way as you, that was off-putting.

If you had mentioned it, I would have said I respectfully disagree with you, but you pretty much flamed everyone out of the gates.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 05:23 PM
Dane, whats sort of pissing me off is your "I'm right and I'm not even going to give anyone elses theory a chance" attitude.

I gave your theory a read, but just the way that you put it, almost insulting our intelligence for not seeing it the same way as you, that was off-putting.

If you had mentioned it, I would have said I respectfully disagree with you, but you pretty much flamed everyone out of the gates.

Where did I say that anyone else was wrong? All I've said is that someone else may have a different idea or opinion, but that doesn't make me incorrect.

There is a difference.

Buck
05-24-2010, 05:29 PM
Where did I say that anyone else was wrong? All I've said is that someone else may have a different idea or opinion, but that doesn't make me incorrect.

There is a difference.

Maybe I am misinterpreting what you are trying to say, but at the end of your posts you say "The End." or "End of Story."

Also, I think you are a pretty smart guy, you seem that way, I just don't get how you could think the way you are thinking.

Then again they left it open for interpretation, so maybe I'm being the dick here.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 05:33 PM
Dane, whats sort of pissing me off is your "I'm right and I'm not even going to give anyone elses theory a chance" attitude.

I gave your theory a read, but just the way that you put it, almost insulting our intelligence for not seeing it the same way as you, that was off-putting.

If you had mentioned it, I would have said I respectfully disagree with you, but you pretty much flamed everyone out of the gates.

There are two ways to look at this, IMO:

1. Take the show at face value. The Smoke Monster, the Egyptians, Jacob, his mother, flash backs, flash forwards, flash sideways - all of it. Each character is earning his or her redemption, allowing them to pass on to the next world but they're all waiting until Jack's journey is completed. Once that's happened, they all move on to heaven, Nirvana, etc.

2. Everyone died on Flight 815. Jack has a flash just before death, in which he creates this entire epic world in which he's the hero and goes from a man of science to a man of faith. Once that journey's complete in his mind, he dies and goes to heaven.

Personally, I see it as Number Two but as I've said repeatedly throughout this thread (and personally apologizing for offending anyone), that's MY interpretation only.

I'm not trying to convince anyone.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 05:33 PM
Maybe I am misinterpreting what you are trying to say, but at the end of your posts you say "The End." or "End of Story."

Also, I think you are a pretty smart guy, you seem that way, I just don't get how you could think the way you are thinking.

Then again they left it open for interpretation, so maybe I'm being the dick here.

Nah dude, it's all good and I apologize to you for offending you or your sensibilities.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 06:09 PM
And despite what some people are suggesting, all of the passengers on flight 815 were dead.

The end credits where they show the wreckage with absolutely no sign of life prove it.

I don't have the time to look for it, but I read that during the end credits you can see Jack's makeshift blue tarp medical tent in one of the photos. I don't know if it is true or not, I'm just throwing it out there.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 06:14 PM
I don't have the time to look for it, but I read that during the end credits you can see Jack's makeshift blue tarp medical tent in one of the photos. I don't know if it is true or not, I'm just throwing it out there.

During the second shot of the airplane remains on the beach, there is a blue towel that's blowing in the wind because it's pinned down by some debris.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 06:31 PM
During the second shot of the airplane remains on the beach, there is a blue towel that's blowing in the wind because it's pinned down by some debris.

That makes better sense then.

One thing I noticed - when Kate was with Jack leaving the party, she was sporting the killer black dress. When she spoke with Jack in the car, she was wearing the same thing. Moments later, when he rejoins the lostaways in the farewell, she's got a lame blue top and slacks.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 06:40 PM
Dane, whats sort of pissing me off is your "I'm right and I'm not even going to give anyone elses theory a chance" attitude.

I gave your theory a read, but just the way that you put it, almost insulting our intelligence for not seeing it the same way as you, that was off-putting.

If you had mentioned it, I would have said I respectfully disagree with you, but you pretty much flamed everyone out of the gates.


I agree with you. Hes afraid to answer my question I have asked him 3 times now

So Dane for the FOURTH time Darlton said that everything that happened on the island was real What happened happened. Why not believe them?

Huffmeister
05-24-2010, 06:47 PM
The end credits where they show the wreckage with absolutely no sign of life prove it.
So the footprints in the sand and piles of clothes were not signs of life? And where were the bodies of the other people on the plane? If they were showing a plane crash where everyone died, you'd think they would have, oh I don't know, shown some dead people.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 06:55 PM
Screen caps of the final scenes...

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=145404&fullsize=1

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=145267&fullsize=1

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=145603&fullsize=1

In that last one, part of me says "Hmmm, is that a person in the middle wearing black?"

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 06:57 PM
I would like someone to really dig into a comparison of the Oceanic 815 wreckage and that from the final credits footage... is it the same?

Huffmeister
05-24-2010, 07:06 PM
Best line from the finale: "I don't believe in a lot of things, but I do believe in duct tape."

Mr. Plow
05-24-2010, 07:32 PM
Just watched it a 2nd time. It's was almost better this time around.

My question to Dane, since he seems to feel fairly strongly about the "Everyone died during the crash" theory. I'll say, initially, I had the same thought. Mainly because of Jack essentially dieing in the same place and the same way that he woke up on the island. My question is, if this was all a dream, why the need for Ben to apologize to John at the end for what he had done to him? Just seems to me that if this were a dream by Jack, scenes like that wouldn't be necessary. Probably a dumb question, but wanted to see what you thought.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 07:42 PM
Just watched it a 2nd time. It's was almost better this time around.

My question to Dane, since he seems to feel fairly strongly about the "Everyone died during the crash" theory. I'll say, initially, I had the same thought. Mainly because of Jack essentially dieing in the same place and the same way that he woke up on the island. My question is, if this was all a dream, why the need for Ben to apologize to John at the end for what he had done to him? Just seems to me that if this were a dream by Jack, scenes like that wouldn't be necessary. Probably a dumb question, but wanted to see what you thought.

ON top of that Darlton said that everything that happened on the island was real that it happened Whatever happened happened.

So with that being stated for the 5th time IT WAS NOT A DREAM

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 07:52 PM
I agree with you. Hes afraid to answer my question I have asked him 3 times now

So Dane for the FOURTH time Darlton said that everything that happened on the island was real What happened happened. Why not believe them?

I'm not afraid to answer anything. WTH?

There is absolutely NO reason to believe any information given by Carlton Cuse or Damon Lindelof. None, whatsoever.

1. The Island isn't purgatory (Well, yes it was).
2. Walt is important (no, he wasn't).
3. Aaron is important (no, he wasn't).
4. The Island is actually an island (no it wasn't).

And on and on and on.

You're free to believe whatever you so choose.

Silock
05-24-2010, 07:53 PM
And despite what some people are suggesting, all of the passengers on flight 815 were dead.

The end credits where they show the wreckage with absolutely no sign of life prove it.

That might *support* the theory, but I don't think it *proves it*.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 07:54 PM
ON top of that Darlton said that everything that happened on the island was real that it happened Whatever happened happened.

So with that being stated for the 5th time IT WAS NOT A DREAM

Who said anything about a dream? JFC, chill the fuck out.

There are two ways to look at this, IMO:

1. Take the show at face value. The Smoke Monster, the Egyptians, Jacob, his mother, flash backs, flash forwards, flash sideways - all of it. Each character is earning his or her redemption, allowing them to pass on to the next world but they're all waiting until Jack's journey is completed. Once that's happened, they all move on to heaven, Nirvana, etc.

2. Everyone died on Flight 815. Jack has a flash just before death, in which he creates this entire epic world in which he's the hero and goes from a man of science to a man of faith. Once that journey's complete in his mind, he dies and goes to heaven.

Personally, I see it as Number Two but as I've said repeatedly throughout this thread (and personally apologizing for offending anyone), that's MY interpretation only.

I'm not trying to convince anyone.

Silock
05-24-2010, 07:59 PM
Oh, and I just now got to watch it. I'm disappointed. I get it that they wanted it to be a character-driven show, and it was. That's fine with me. But what pisses me off is that you don't bring up all of these questions about Dharma, the numbers, fertility, polar bears, etc., make them the focus of the show for 2-3 seasons, and then ultimately say "It doesn't matter; spend time with your loved ones." That's lame and it's a cop-out.

They KNEW that what was driving a lot of people to watch wasn't ONLY the characters. People were ALWAYS asking questions about what all the science-shit meant, and to just leave it all unanswered is lazy writing. If you're ultimately going to dismiss the questions, you should never bring them up in the first place. But then, they, as writers, knew that they wouldn't have been able to keep people watching without weaving these elaborate time-travelling questions into the storyline because it wasn't strong enough on a pure-character basis.

It was a good episode, and I liked it from the character standpoint, but leaving huge, gaping holes in the storyline sucks. Many of the questions were central to the development of some of the characters, like Juliet and why all the women on the island died during childbirth, or Ben and moving the island with a giant wheel and ending up in the desert. Good episode, bad finale.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 08:02 PM
I'm not afraid to answer anything. WTH?

There is absolutely NO reason to believe any information given by Carlton Cuse or Damon Lindelof. None, whatsoever.

1. The Island isn't purgatory (Well, yes it was).
2. Walt is important (no, he wasn't).
3. Aaron is important (no, he wasn't).
4. The Island is actually an island (no it wasn't).

And on and on and on.

You're free to believe whatever you so choose.

They are still saying it was real

1 The island is not purgatory never was because it was real

2. He was important

3. He was part of the story made Kate a "mom"

4. Yes it is island

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 08:12 PM
They are still saying it was real

1 The island is not purgatory never was because it was real

2. He was important

3. He was part of the story made Kate a "mom"

4. Yes it is island

I'm sorry, but I fully disagree.

Kate was a "never" a mom because Aaron was never born. Neither was Sun & Jin's baby.

The Dead can't procreate.

You're not taking into account every facet of the show, from beginning to end. You're basing your conclusions on a few things said in the final few episodes.

You can either choose to dig deeper and re-examine your beliefs. Or not.

Either way, it's of no consequence to me.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 08:13 PM
That might *support* the theory, but I don't think it *proves it*.

The fact that the children weren't included in the final scene is also telling.

As I stated in the previous post, the Dead can't procreate or have children.

Silock
05-24-2010, 08:14 PM
So, what about the footprints around the plane?

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 08:15 PM
So the footprints in the sand and piles of clothes were not signs of life? And where were the bodies of the other people on the plane? If they were showing a plane crash where everyone died, you'd think they would have, oh I don't know, shown some dead people.

No.

The plane broke up over the Indian Ocean. Everyone was strapped in. There would be no survivors to wash upon a shore, anyway.

They'd all be dead at the bottom of the ocean.

And those footprints weren't necessarily human footprints and there are absolutely no signs of life around the engine debris.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 08:16 PM
So, what about the footprints around the plane?

I don't think they were human. Animal or whatnot.

I think the final scene was to illustrate that the plane did indeed crash and there were no survivors.

tk13
05-24-2010, 08:27 PM
I think the final scene was to illustrate that the plane did indeed crash and there were no survivors.

I have to admit, that's how I originally interpreted it. But I don't watch the show nearly enough to have an educated opinion. :)

Guru
05-24-2010, 08:29 PM
I can't wait to see how long this thread is kept alive now. I bet it never dies. LMAO

KcMizzou
05-24-2010, 08:31 PM
So, the series is all wrapped up, and still... nobody really knows WTF was going on...

I'm not trying to be a troll, I know it's a very entertaining (intriguing) show. I was hooked for two seasons or so.

But in the end, nobody's sure what they spent six seasons watching?

patteeu
05-24-2010, 08:35 PM
Nah dude, it's all good and I apologize to you for offending you or your sensibilities.

I'm offended now that you're getting all squishy and apologetic. :p

KcMizzou
05-24-2010, 08:37 PM
I can't wait to see how long this thread is kept alive now. I bet it never dies. LMAOAbrams is great at what he does.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 08:38 PM
So, the series is all wrapped up, and still... nobody really knows WTF was going on...

I'm not trying to be a troll, I know it's a very entertaining (intriguing) show. I was hooked for two seasons or so.

But in the end, nobody's sure what they spent six seasons watching?

Well, I for one, know exactly what we were watching:

A hero's journey, with his very soul hanging in the balance.

In the end, the Hero was redeemed, which in turn, allowed those who followed him to be redeemed as well.

It was an excellent six seasons and an excellent finale.

Some just interpret it different than others.

Chief Chief
05-24-2010, 08:39 PM
Oh, and I just now got to watch it. I'm disappointed. I get it that they wanted it to be a character-driven show, and it was. That's fine with me. But what pisses me off is that you don't bring up all of these questions about Dharma, the numbers, fertility, polar bears, etc., make them the focus of the show for 2-3 seasons, and then ultimately say "It doesn't matter; spend time with your loved ones." That's lame and it's a cop-out.

They KNEW that what was driving a lot of people to watch wasn't ONLY the characters. People were ALWAYS asking questions about what all the science-shit meant, and to just leave it all unanswered is lazy writing. If you're ultimately going to dismiss the questions, you should never bring them up in the first place. But then, they, as writers, knew that they wouldn't have been able to keep people watching without weaving these elaborate time-travelling questions into the storyline because it wasn't strong enough on a pure-character basis.

It was a good episode, and I liked it from the character standpoint, but leaving huge, gaping holes in the storyline sucks. Many of the questions were central to the development of some of the characters, like Juliet and why all the women on the island died during childbirth, or Ben and moving the island with a giant wheel and ending up in the desert. Good episode, bad finale.

THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU!!!

I'm LMFAO at all you LOST LOONIES who got SUCKED IN BIG-TIME to this series when I knew all along the writers continually created up crap just to keep you morons watching it week after week. This is the biggest TV farce since the dream episode of Dallas. I hope those unanswered questions remain active in your minds until you die in a plane crash!! In the meantime, maybe you can answer this question: Why did the dumphuk say "I dunno --why?"?

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 08:40 PM
I'm offended now that you're getting all squishy and apologetic. :p

Oh and Pat, I'm going to go back and look at episode one of this series, just for you.

Because despite what Jacob said (IMO, Jack speaking), the numbers were nothing more than their seat assignments, with 15-16 being Sun and Jin.

Silock
05-24-2010, 08:41 PM
I don't think they were human. Animal or whatnot.

I think the final scene was to illustrate that the plane did indeed crash and there were no survivors.

What animals, though? The only animals we ever saw were warthogs and polar bears. Oh, and a horse.

Silock
05-24-2010, 08:42 PM
I can't wait to see how long this thread is kept alive now. I bet it never dies. LMAO

No, this thread is purgatory, but everyone in it is absolutely real and this discussion DID happen.

patteeu
05-24-2010, 08:42 PM
Oh and Pat, I'm going to go back and look at episode one of this series, just for you.

Because despite what Jacob said (IMO, Jack speaking), the numbers were nothing more than their seat assignments, with 15-16 being Sun and Jin.

That would be interesting. :thumb:

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 08:43 PM
What animals, though? The only animals we ever saw were warthogs and polar bears. Oh, and a horse.

Well, when I checked earlier on my 46" LCD, not only did it NOT look like footprints, the "person" that MHM "thought" he might of seen was an illusion created by reducing the resolution and a single frame.

Silock
05-24-2010, 08:45 PM
Well, when I checked earlier on my 46" LCD, not only did it NOT look like footprints, the "person" that MHM "thought" he might of seen was an illusion created by reducing the resolution and a single frame.

Interesting. I'll have to re-watch it sometime. But first, I'm going to watch every episode from the very beginning just to see if I'm REALLY missing a bunch of shit, or if they just made it all up as they went along. Or, third option -- I'm far dumber than I think I am, which is ENTIRELY probable.

Silock
05-24-2010, 08:46 PM
For what it's worth:

From Doc Jensen of EW.com, if anyone would know, he would. His source is probably Damon or Carlton.

Quote:
The plane wreckage over Lost credits: not part of the story, say reliable sources. Meant to evoke mood. No Ajira crash, no time loops.

Guru
05-24-2010, 08:52 PM
No, this thread is purgatory, but everyone in it is absolutely real and this discussion DID happen.

You are wrong sir. The thread is actually Dane's flash. The flash just hasn't concluded yet.:D

Silock
05-24-2010, 08:53 PM
You are wrong sir. The thread is actually Dane's flash. The flash just hasn't concluded yet.:D

So he is LITERALLY a legend in his own mind! It all makes sense now!

(Sorry, Dane... it was RIGHT THERE! Had to take it.)

Jenson71
05-24-2010, 08:53 PM
I'm not a LOST audience member. I thought it became silly during the second season and I gave up. I have no desire to view it. But I have found this discussion on the interpretations very interesting, so well done to our members here for all their contributions.

Guru
05-24-2010, 09:00 PM
So he is LITERALLY a legend in his own mind! It all makes sense now!

(Sorry, Dane... it was RIGHT THERE! Had to take it.)

:eek: None of us are real. HOLY SHIT!!!!:eek:

Deberg_1990
05-24-2010, 09:05 PM
Oh, and I just now got to watch it. I'm disappointed. I get it that they wanted it to be a character-driven show, and it was. That's fine with me. But what pisses me off is that you don't bring up all of these questions about Dharma, the numbers, fertility, polar bears, etc., make them the focus of the show for 2-3 seasons, and then ultimately say "It doesn't matter; spend time with your loved ones." That's lame and it's a cop-out.

They KNEW that what was driving a lot of people to watch wasn't ONLY the characters. People were ALWAYS asking questions about what all the science-shit meant, and to just leave it all unanswered is lazy writing. If you're ultimately going to dismiss the questions, you should never bring them up in the first place. But then, they, as writers, knew that they wouldn't have been able to keep people watching without weaving these elaborate time-travelling questions into the storyline because it wasn't strong enough on a pure-character basis.

It was a good episode, and I liked it from the character standpoint, but leaving huge, gaping holes in the storyline sucks. Many of the questions were central to the development of some of the characters, like Juliet and why all the women on the island died during childbirth, or Ben and moving the island with a giant wheel and ending up in the desert. Good episode, bad finale.


Pretty much my feelings as well.

Probably one of the most well made series ever, but in the end, being extremely hollow.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:07 PM
Interesting. I'll have to re-watch it sometime. But first, I'm going to watch every episode from the very beginning just to see if I'm REALLY missing a bunch of shit, or if they just made it all up as they went along. Or, third option -- I'm far dumber than I think I am, which is ENTIRELY probable.

Here's the deal: From a story standpoint (and TV series) it was a simple concept. Even though most people thought that the writers were making it up as they went along, the most important part of the show, The Theme, never changed.

I'm sure the pitch went something like this:

We have a show about a Hero and his journey. His very soul lies in the balance. His journey is one of redemption. If he can redeem himself, he'll save his soul and the souls of his followers. If he can't, they'll all end up soulless and in a Hell.

Sounds sorta interesting, but nothing really new and exciting, right?

So then they add this:

What separates this Hero's journey and our story is that it follows a group of people that were in a devastating plane crash that end up on a lush tropical island. But the island really isn't a tropical island. There are polar bears, unexplained electromagnetic power, several groups allied against our survivors and a game being played that could decide the fate of everyone on the island.

Now, there were many failed plot devices including Aaron, Walt, Jack's tattoos, Mr. Eko and more. The show was able to rebound but they never fully explained those devices and instead, decided to cover it up by stating the show was really about redemption. Not about EM, Dharma, Egyptian statues, etc.

If you re-watch all of the episodes, I'm sure that the finale will have more meaning and you may have an epiphany as to what really happened in the end.

Or not.

:D

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 09:10 PM
Bottom line... I don't think they ever intended to wrap it up in a nice li'l bow for everyone at the end. If you weren't a fan of the show, well I've got nothing for you. If you were a fan of the show, you likely were drawn in by all the mystery and the new things that were always presented.

It ended with a number of credible interpretations of what happened... that's the deal, that was their goal. If you don't appreciate it that and you were really expecting one 'matter of fact' finality of it all... well, I think that was crazy to expect.

I thought it was a great ending to a great show... lots of questions still remain, but I think that's the point... after six years of devoting a great deal of time to this show... we're still a bit lost and that's the way it should be with this one.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 09:11 PM
I'm sorry, but I fully disagree.

Kate was a "never" a mom because Aaron was never born. Neither was Sun & Jin's baby.

The Dead can't procreate.

You're not taking into account every facet of the show, from beginning to end. You're basing your conclusions on a few things said in the final few episodes.

You can either choose to dig deeper and re-examine your beliefs. Or not.

Either way, it's of no consequence to me.

Aaron was born because it actually happened Darlton stated so

Dude I watched from the beg I am not taken it from the last few episodes.

The plane did not crash Darlton stated so

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:14 PM
Aaron was born because it actually happened Darlton stated so

Dude I watched from the beg I am not taken it from the last few episodes.

The plane did not crash Darlton stated so

Where are you getting this information? And if Aaron was born, where was he in the finale?

Again, I think you're taking all of this far too literally, but that's your prerogative.

And if the plane did not crash, what was the final scene?

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 09:16 PM
The dead can't procreate - true. And, that's why women couldn't get/stay pregnant and actually birth a child.

I'm not 100% convinced though that everyone died on the 815 crash. I think all of that did happen... they did make their way off the island once and return... that's where Aaron and Sun's baby are, they're in the real world before they returned. However, the flash sideways was not real.

The characters from their time on the island appeared in the flash sideways when they died, and once they 'remembered or awakened', they were able to move to the other side. Some were unable to remember (Charlotte) and some remembered (Ben), but were not ready to move on ... maybe because he was waiting for Danielle and Alex.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 09:18 PM
Love to see me try? What's your problem?

First off, the reason that Jack has had blood on his neck inexplicably throughout this season is because he's actually been dead this entire time. As for the clothes, I explained this earlier: When you dream, are you wearing the same clothes you wore that day?



That's YOUR interpretation, not mine.

This entire show was about one man's journey. His personal struggle with science versus faith. He was not going to "heaven" until he found faith. Everything else was created in his mind as a way to get there.

As I stated earlier, believe what you want to believe. I'm not here to change anyone's mind.


Didnt you mention DREAM here?

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 09:19 PM
I think Dharma found the island and truly did set up shop to study it's scientific properties... they brought the animals (don't forget the shark with the Dharma logo from the season when they showed the underwater station).

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:20 PM
Didnt you mention DREAM here?

You're kind of an annoying, nitpicky bitch. Did you know that?

I'd like for YOU to answer a question for once, instead acting like the Grand Inquisitor.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 09:21 PM
Where are you getting this information? And if Aaron was born, where was he in the finale?

Again, I think you're taking all of this far too literally, but that's your prerogative.

And if the plane did not crash, what was the final scene?


I agree with you in regards about the Hero and being redeemed We do agree about that. You described it well

I m getting my info from hearing it directly from Darlton.

Aaron wasn't in the finale because its the same as Walt. They probably had other people more important then the survivors. Also Aaron was a infant-toddler So he wouldn't really be connected emotionally with them.

The final scene was how Doc Jenson explained it

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 09:23 PM
You're kind of an annoying, nitpicky bitch. Did you know that?

I'd like for YOU to answer a question for once, instead acting like the Grand Inquisitor.

LOL We both can be.

To be honest I was looking for your reaction to the finale since last night because I do think you do put thought into it. We both agree on everything except for the plane crashing.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 09:24 PM
I agree with you in regards about the Hero and being redeemed We do agree about that. You described it well

I m getting my info from hearing it directly from Darlton.

Aaron wasn't in the finale because its the same as Walt. They probably had other people more important then the survivors. Also Aaron was a infant-toddler So he wouldn't really be connected emotionally with them.

The final scene was how Doc Jenson explained it

Maybe they just weren't dead yet....

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:24 PM
The dead can't procreate - true. And, that's why women couldn't get/stay pregnant and actually birth a child.

I'm not 100% convinced though that everyone died on the 815 crash. I think all of that did happen... they did make their way off the island once and return... that's where Aaron and Sun's baby are, they're in the real world before they returned. However, the flash sideways was not real.

The characters from their time on the island appeared in the flash sideways when they died, and once they 'remembered or awakened', they were able to move to the other side. Some were unable to remember (Charlotte) and some remembered (Ben), but were not ready to move on ... maybe because he was waiting for Danielle and Alex.

I disagree and I feel (IMO) that some people are hypothesizing and looking in the wrong places.

Everyone on the island was dead. No one went back to the real world and no children were born. It was all a plot device so that Jack would conclude his journey to redeem his soul and the souls of the other Losties.

The Flash Sideways was once again, a plot device to show that once Jack redeemed himself, the others would be redeemed as well. Plus, people like a happy ending.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 09:25 PM
I disagree and I feel (IMO) that some people are hypothesizing and looking in the wrong places.

Everyone on the island was dead. No one went back to the real world and no children were born. It was all a plot device so that Jack would conclude his journey to redeem his soul and the souls of the other Losties.

The Flash Sideways was once again, a plot device to show that once Jack redeemed himself, the others would be redeemed as well. Plus, people like a happy ending.

I don't know who's right, but I like all the different theories... I think a strong argument can be made for several ways to wrap this one up.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:26 PM
I m getting my info from hearing it directly from Darlton.


Where? I've got them on Twitter and have seen nothing of the sort. I've read and listened to every interview I could find (save for last night's because it was far too late - I'll watch it tonight) and heard nothing remotely like you're describing.

My wife went to the Paly festival in March and my question (through my wife) was the first question addressed by the panel, which included the actors, Cuse, Bender & Lindelof.

Mile High Mania
05-24-2010, 09:26 PM
Also, I don't need 100% closure on this one... I like all the mystery and the mystery involved.

I do think the final scenes during the credit say a lot.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:28 PM
I don't know who's right, but I like all the different theories... I think a strong argument can be made for several ways to wrap this one up.

I've got two and mentioned them both earlier.

Either you believe that everything that happened on the show literally happened, or you believe that Jack had an epiphany just as he died with regards on how to find redemption.

Either way, the outcome is exactly the same.

Deberg_1990
05-24-2010, 09:36 PM
Here's the deal: From a story standpoint (and TV series) it was a simple concept. Even though most people thought that the writers were making it up as they went along, the most important part of the show, The Theme, never changed.

I'm sure the pitch went something like this:

We have a show about a Hero and his journey. His very soul lies in the balance. His journey is one of redemption. If he can redeem himself, he'll save his soul and the souls of his followers. If he can't, they'll all end up soulless and in a Hell.

Sounds sorta interesting, but nothing really new and exciting, right?

So then they add this:

What separates this Hero's journey and our story is that it follows a group of people that were in a devastating plane crash that end up on a lush tropical island. But the island really isn't a tropical island. There are polar bears, unexplained electromagnetic power, several groups allied against our survivors and a game being played that could decide the fate of everyone on the island.

Now, there were many failed plot devices including Aaron, Walt, Jack's tattoos, Mr. Eko and more. The show was able to rebound but they never fully explained those devices and instead, decided to cover it up by stating the show was really about redemption. Not about EM, Dharma, Egyptian statues, etc.

If you re-watch all of the episodes, I'm sure that the finale will have more meaning and you may have an epiphany as to what really happened in the end.

Or not.

:D


Sounds good...i want to believe you....

But it seems like the series started off more Sci-Fi......that was the orginal hook anyways......Guess i was just disappointed they strayed from that.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 09:43 PM
Where? I've got them on Twitter and have seen nothing of the sort. I've read and listened to every interview I could find (save for last night's because it was far too late - I'll watch it tonight) and heard nothing remotely like you're describing.

My wife went to the Paly festival in March and my question (through my wife) was the first question addressed by the panel, which included the actors, Cuse, Bender & Lindelof.

The podcasts and the interviews on Dark UFO

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:45 PM
The podcasts and the interviews on Dark UFO

If I do a search on Cuse and/or Lindelof, very little comes up.

Chiefnj2
05-24-2010, 09:48 PM
I'm not sure why people would take Darlton for their word. They've bent the truth before, many times. I find it kind of funny that they are now taking the position that it "has always been about the characters". Oh, really? For years and years I remember everything focusing on the hatch, the numbers, the others, conception issues, time travel, etc. Not to mention the introduction of characters only to kill them off a few weeks later without any real character development - tail section anyone?

I honestly believe they originally had about two seasons worth of material and it focussed primarily on Jack and his series of tests and faith. When the show became wildly popular they fed into the minutia without any idea how they would actually provide answers to all the mysteries they created - Walt - who? Oh yeah, the kid the others wanted really bad, the kid who had mysterious powers and was locked in room 23 - forget he ever existed. The rabbits with numbers who would magically recreate, what happened to them? Fertility quesions? Aaron?? The numbers - "Jacob has a thing for numbers". That's an answer?

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 09:51 PM
I was having similar thoughts (and I know very little about the show) until the explanation of it all from Jack's dad. I felt like there could be a next world, perhaps any number of additional alt-timelines, in which things would play out differently but end pretty much the same. It alluded to reincarnation, yes, but more strongly to Nietzche's notion of the Eternal Recurrence.

I spoke that thought out loud last night, at which point my friend Nalla told me "Stop it. The minute you try and bring legitimate philosophy into this is the minute that the show's creators win." Then we went on to making jokes about how the Lost writers didn't really have a good idea of what they show meant. Then we watched Breaking Bad, a decidedly non-spiritual show that consequently has things to say about the world (a non-spiritual one) that real humans live in.

I plan on watching all of LOST right after I finish playing through Super Mario Galaxy 2 just to see how off I am about my impressions.

When LOST is on, it rivals Breaking Bad in terms of quality and entertainment. The difference is that BB maintains it's plateau where LOST doesn't.

That may be true. But it doesn't mean that I'm incorrect.

The show runners made the show about Jack and his journey for "redemption". They've stated on several occasions that they knew exactly how the show would end, they just needed to know how much time they'd have to flesh out the back stories of the other characters.

Now, that doesn't mean that as a TV show, the other characters were meaningless because in the bigger picture, Jack needed those people to grow and move on to the next world. But in the end, it was Jack's story. If the show had ended after season three, it would have ended the same exact way for Jack.

And despite what some people are suggesting, all of the passengers on flight 815 were dead.

The end credits where they show the wreckage with absolutely no sign of life prove it.

I took those as set photos. They didn't even look like part of the episode.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 09:57 PM
I took those as set photos. They didn't even look like part of the episode.

They weren't photos because a blue blanket was waiving in the wind.

Furthermore, if they were just stills, why not show more than three?

Brock
05-24-2010, 09:59 PM
Great show from beginning to end. Whether it was pointless or not, it entertained me for a long time. Sorry it had to end.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:00 PM
I'm not sure why people would take Darlton for their word. They've bent the truth before, many times. I find it kind of funny that they are now taking the position that it "has always been about the characters". Oh, really? For years and years I remember everything focusing on the hatch, the numbers, the others, conception issues, time travel, etc. Not to mention the introduction of characters only to kill them off a few weeks later without any real character development - tail section anyone?

I honestly believe they originally had about two seasons worth of material and it focussed primarily on Jack and his series of tests and faith. When the show became wildly popular they fed into the minutia without any idea how they would actually provide answers to all the mysteries they created - Walt - who? Oh yeah, the kid the others wanted really bad, the kid who had mysterious powers and was locked in room 23 - forget he ever existed. The rabbits with numbers who would magically recreate, what happened to them? Fertility quesions? Aaron?? The numbers - "Jacob has a thing for numbers". That's an answer?

Furthermore, you're given six years to very important questions (fertility, the fate of Walt & Aaron, etc.) but those questions are answered off screen?

I don't buy it.

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 10:03 PM
They weren't photos because a blue blanket was waiving in the wind.

Furthermore, if they were just stills, why not show more than three?

I thought it was more "look where we started", we just ended with what you saw.


I didn't think it had any story bearing.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:04 PM
I thought it was more "look where we started", we just ended with what you saw.


I didn't think it had any story bearing.

That would be a first.

Obviously, I don't agree with your assumption but to each his own.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 10:04 PM
Furthermore, you're given six years to very important questions (fertility, the fate of Walt & Aaron, etc.) but those questions are answered off screen?

I don't buy it.

They are going to address Walt in the DVD

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:05 PM
They are going to address Walt in the DVD

If true, that's weak. I'd prefer they don't address it all because it cheapens the series.

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 10:06 PM
That would be a first.

Obviously, I don't agree with your assumption but to each his own.

What makes you think it was relevant?

It went to black for a good 5 seconds and then faded up. That to me signals a credits style look back kinda thing.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:07 PM
What makes you think it was relevant?

It went to black for a good 5 seconds and then faded up. That to me signals a credits style look back kinda thing.

No, I don't think it was irrelevant at all.

I think that it proves the notion that the Losties died when the plane broke in half and that the "island" wasn't really an island afterall.

DaneMcCloud
05-24-2010, 10:11 PM
Oh, and I thought it was rather weak that they had Shannon and Sayid together at the end (and to a lesser extent, Libby with Hurley) because it had been long established that Nadia was Sayid's one true love.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 10:14 PM
Oh, and I thought it was rather weak that they had Shannon and Sayid together at the end (and to a lesser extent, Libby with Hurley) because it had been long established that Nadia was Sayid's one true love.

I do agree with yo some there

Silock
05-24-2010, 10:19 PM
The show was able to rebound but they never fully explained those devices and instead, decided to cover it up by stating the show was really about redemption.

That's what bothers me, because really, a series is about MUCH more than just one or two episodes (like a pilot or a finale). They made those plot devices such a GIGANTIC portion of the story that it's a complete disservice to the entire series to just not answer them.

irishjayhawk
05-24-2010, 10:23 PM
Oh, and I thought it was rather weak that they had Shannon and Sayid together at the end (and to a lesser extent, Libby with Hurley) because it had been long established that Nadia was Sayid's one true love.

Well, some part of me agrees and the other part says it makes sense in the context of the show.

If you buy that the people meant a lot to each other and had to move on as a group, it makes sense that Sayid would be attached to Shannon more than Nadia.

I think about it as you can have a super hard crush for your whole life on a girl who you never get with yet simultaneously love your wife.

Silock
05-24-2010, 10:24 PM
If true, that's weak. I'd prefer they don't address it all because it cheapens the series.

IMO, it's a little late to be concerned with that, considering how much cheaper the series got when they decided to forget about explaining all the things they brought up to begin with.

Silock
05-24-2010, 10:25 PM
I'm not sure why people would take Darlton for their word. They've bent the truth before, many times. I find it kind of funny that they are now taking the position that it "has always been about the characters". Oh, really? For years and years I remember everything focusing on the hatch, the numbers, the others, conception issues, time travel, etc. Not to mention the introduction of characters only to kill them off a few weeks later without any real character development - tail section anyone?

I honestly believe they originally had about two seasons worth of material and it focussed primarily on Jack and his series of tests and faith. When the show became wildly popular they fed into the minutia without any idea how they would actually provide answers to all the mysteries they created - Walt - who? Oh yeah, the kid the others wanted really bad, the kid who had mysterious powers and was locked in room 23 - forget he ever existed. The rabbits with numbers who would magically recreate, what happened to them? Fertility quesions? Aaron?? The numbers - "Jacob has a thing for numbers". That's an answer?

Unfortunately, I agree.

CosmicPal
05-24-2010, 10:27 PM
What killed me most about the final episode was when Lapidus backed the airplane in reverse in sand. This is a virtually impossible maneuver. Some commercial jets can go into reverse throttle, but to do so would require an enormous amount of fuel, is extremely hard on the engines, and is very dangerous.

The other screw up in the final episode was Kate's attire. When she was sitting in the jeep with Jack, she was dressed in a black formal gown. She left the jeep and walked to the church after telling Jack that she'd meet him inside. When Jack meets everyone in the church, Kate is wearing an awful silk blouse and striped pants.

For a show so tight on getting things right, I found it interesting that they had two major f*ck ups in the same show. Or were they meant to be "unreal?"

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 10:41 PM
…we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.

What is your opionion of this comment?

Guru
05-24-2010, 10:45 PM
…we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.

What is your opionion of this comment?Well, obviously one of them was NOT real.

Dayze
05-24-2010, 10:49 PM
THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU!!!

I'm LMFAO at all you LOST LOONIES who got SUCKED IN BIG-TIME to this series when I knew all along the writers continually created up crap just to keep you morons watching it week after week. This is the biggest TV farce since the dream episode of Dallas. I hope those unanswered questions remain active in your minds until you die in a plane crash!! In the meantime, maybe you can answer this question: Why did the dumphuk say "I dunno --why?"?

so, those who watched Lost are/were Morons?
:rolleyes:

admit it, you watch American Chopper.

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 11:17 PM
Lost Redux: See You In Another Life, Brotha
Today 2:14 AM PDT by Kristin Dos Santos


ABC/Mario Perez
Never before has a TV breakup hurt so much...and left us blubbering like such babies.

Tonight we Lost fans lost our "Constant"—the show we connected with on such a soul-grippingly deep level for six years, it feels as if we've lost not just a TV series, but a true friend.

So did the series finale live up to expectations? And what did it all mean? Let's dig in...

One glance at Twitter, Facebook etc. tonight and you'll see that the fans are a bit divided on Lost's final episode. Some loved it, some hated it, and some are still trying to figure out what the bejeezus happened. I'm most definitely in the first camp: LOVED IT, as tonight's finale was perhaps the most emotionally gratifying series ender in the history of television. Damon and Carlton gave us exactly what they promised—resolution on the things that mattered most to the characters.

Jack, Kate, Locke, Desmond, Sawyer, Juliet, Claire, etc. all ended up in a happy place...but what exactly was that place?

WHAT WE LEARNED

The Sideways World Was a Passage to "The Light": Charlie's (Dominic Monaghan) iconic question from the very first episode—"Guys, where are we?"—came full circle tonight, as Jack Shephard (Matthew Fox) asked that very Q of his father, Christian Shephard, in Lost's epic final scene.

Jack: Where are we?
Christian: This is a place you all made together so you could find one another...Nobody does it all alone. You needed them and they needed you.
Jack: For what?
Christian: To remember and to let go.

Obviously, precisely "where" these characters were going will be long debated, but for what it's worth, here's my take: Damon and Carlton told the truth when they said the Island was not purgatory. It wasn't, and what happened there happened, and everyone was alive.

However, the Sideways world was a postdeath place of limbo where Jack was waiting until he was ready to "let go" and cross over to the Light, which is basically Lost's form of heaven. The Losties who appeared in the church at the end all died at different times in different places (some much later on) but came together in that space to help Jack move on.

But it wasn't only about helping Jack. The Losties all gathered in the church to cross over to the Light because Jack saved that very Light when he rescued the Island. As we were told this season, if the Light "goes out here, it goes out everywhere" and "everyone you love would simply cease to be." If the Light had gone out, the Losties could never have reconnected with their loved ones again. But because Jack saved it, they all get to live blissfully ever after. The (brilliant) end.

And something you probably caught, but just in case: Throughout the season, the blood that appeared on Jack's neck was an indication that Jack was already dead/dying and on his way to "another life, brotha." (A little Sixth Sense-ish. And spine-tinglingly cool.)


ABC/Mario Perez
So What Is Lost's "Heaven?" It's "Light"...and That Other "L Word": Lesbians! (I keed.) Boss Damon Lindelof told me several weeks back that Lost is, at its very core, a love story: "Always has been. Always will be." And tonight, as each set of Constants reconnected and moved toward the Light—Sun and Jin, Charlie and Claire, Jack and Kate, Juliet and Sawyer--we saw that heaven is, indeed, being with the one(s) you love. It made for some of the most awe-inspiring, romantic scenes ever seen on television. I'm sure I'm not alone when I tell you I sobbed so hard at times, I found it hard to breathe. Everyone obviously will react differently to this finale but to me personally, it was the most cathartic TV viewing experHope This Helps: I'm seeing a lot of confusion on this out there, so want to point it out that I firmly believe the Losties did not all die in the plane crash or on the island. They were alive on the island. They all died at different times and in different places (some on the island; some off). This final season was about them being in a holding pattern (the Sideways world) after they died, and Desmond showing them all that they are in fact dead and it's time to move forward with the ones they love. They needed each other to ience I have ever had. And no one can debate that away.

"Remember and to move on."

Jack died on the island. Kate, Claire, Lapidus, Sawyer, Miles and Richard all left the island and lived out their lives. (Jack saw their plane taking off safely as he died.) When Kate saw Jack in the church, on their way to the afterlife (The Light), she told him how much she had missed him, because she probably lived on many years once she got off the island.

When Hurley and Ben meet up, they reference that Hurley "was a great number one" and Ben was a "great number two." That's because they lived on the island after Jack died to protect it, presumably for many years. Ben says he's not yet ready to move on because he doesn't feel he's ready to cross over (or doesn't yet deserve to).

The more I think about all this, the more I love it. I hope you do, too.

Jack Was Supposed to Die—from the Very Beginning: "There was an early version of the script in which my character was killed off in the first or second act," Matthew Fox told me way back at Lost's first premiere party. Jack was to be a guest role played by someone such as—can you picture this?—Michael Keaton. So instead they let us invest for six seasons only to find out that it was all about Jack's death after all?! Gaaaah! Of course, we should have seen it coming the second Rose told Jack in the season opener: "It's OK. You can let go."

On Kimmel tonight, Matthew Fox backed up Jimmy's theory that Jack's Island experience was real, and really happened (Christian Shephard also told him so), but the final season (and the Sideways world) was Jack's "test" to determine whether he would go toward the light.

"There's room for interpretation based on your spiritual beliefs," Matthew said. That would explain the stained-glass window in the church with all of the major religions of the world represented--and what looks like the frozen donkey wheel (though I'm told now that's actually a Buddhist symbol called the Dharmachakra). We gotcha, Darlton! Very on the nose.

"I knew that the final image would be [Jack's] eye," Matthew told Kimmel. "And I knew that he would die."

But did you know that Vincent would lie down next to Jack to keep him company while he passed over? 'Cause Jesus that was a tearjerker. So well done.


ABC/Mario Perez
Hurley Got to Be the New Jacob! Yes, Jack fulfilled his destiny by drinking the wine, replugging the cork down in the light cave and saving the Island (and everyone we love), but it was Hurley who ended up as the next protector of the Island. Anyone else choke up as Hurley asked Ben to stick around and help him, finally giving Ben what he wanted all along: a real purpose? A chance to be special?

Of course, we should have seen that it would be Hurley, as he is the one true, pure spirit who never once lied to anyone, and carried a simple but sizable heart...just like Jacob. To quote that awesome West Wing woman C.J. Craig: "It was always you. I see that now."

And by the way, that scene with Jack down at the replugged cork, sobbing as the water and the light started rushing back in over him is arguably Matthew Fox's finest work to date.


ABC/MARIO PEREZ
Even Claire Got a Happy Ending. Kate convincing Claire to get on the plane, and that "no one knows how to be a mother at first, but I'll show you," was certainly one of the most satisfying moments of the finale—at least for this mom. After so much heartbreak—and the recent abandonment of Ji Yeon—Claire got to go home and be a mother to Aaron, whom we were told long ago should not be raised by another. And Kate got to stay close to the boy she raised for three years. Beautiful.

WHAT LIES AHEAD

Damon Lindelof just tweeted what he has said will be his last words about Lost: "Remember. Let go. Move on. I will miss it more than I can ever say."

Clearly, it's the message the producers would like us to carry from tonight. And though the debates will rage on over what Lost was about, why Kate ended up with Jack and not Sawyer, and why Josh Holloway runs like a girl (kidding...sorta), I think we all can agree that Lost was groundbreaking television unlike anything we've seen before--or will probably ever see again.

Lost, you will be sorely missed. Thanks for one hell of a ride. I'll see you on the other side cause you will always be my TV love.

Please check back later to see my answers to lingering questions such as the Man in Black's name (yes, he had one), what happened to Walt and more, plus reactions from me and the fans—straight from my Lost finale party tonight.


Read more: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b182506_lost_redux_see_you_in_another_life.html?sid=aolpop_news&utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=aolpop&utm_campaign=aolpop_news#ixzz0ouo3h13s

KingPriest2
05-24-2010, 11:21 PM
Oh, and I thought it was rather weak that they had Shannon and Sayid together at the end (and to a lesser extent, Libby with Hurley) because it had been long established that Nadia was Sayid's one true love.

Another reason why everything happened happened and was real is All the people with connections to Darlton People that talk to them even state it was Real Hence Kristin fronm E! and Doc Jensen. Both f these people talk to Darlton They even state that it was real

kysirsoze
05-25-2010, 12:43 AM
I'm not sure why people would take Darlton for their word. They've bent the truth before, many times. I find it kind of funny that they are now taking the position that it "has always been about the characters". Oh, really? For years and years I remember everything focusing on the hatch, the numbers, the others, conception issues, time travel, etc. Not to mention the introduction of characters only to kill them off a few weeks later without any real character development - tail section anyone?

I honestly believe they originally had about two seasons worth of material and it focussed primarily on Jack and his series of tests and faith. When the show became wildly popular they fed into the minutia without any idea how they would actually provide answers to all the mysteries they created - Walt - who? Oh yeah, the kid the others wanted really bad, the kid who had mysterious powers and was locked in room 23 - forget he ever existed. The rabbits with numbers who would magically recreate, what happened to them? Fertility quesions? Aaron?? The numbers - "Jacob has a thing for numbers". That's an answer?

I disagree about the show's focus. I think it was always focused on the characters. It's the fans that focused on the numbers, hatches, etc. Sure the characters were trying to figure this stuff out, but IMO it was more about their struggle. That may sound like revisionist history but there it is.

I agree that the show was at least a season or two too long. I enjoyed it along the way, but they could have seriously trimmed the fat and made an even more amazing 4 season show.

Guru
05-25-2010, 12:57 AM
Agreed on that. If they could have known after the first one or two seasons, how many they would need I don't think we would have had as many holes.

Silock
05-25-2010, 01:00 AM
I disagree about the show's focus. I think it was always focused on the characters. It's the fans that focused on the numbers, hatches, etc. Sure the characters were trying to figure this stuff out, but IMO it was more about their struggle. That may sound like revisionist history but there it is.

I agree that the show was at least a season or two too long. I enjoyed it along the way, but they could have seriously trimmed the fat and made an even more amazing 4 season show.

The fans were trying to figure it out because it was constantly being brought up as part of the characters' experiences. I still don't understand completely understand many characters, like Charles Widmore, for instance. His character was completely wrapped up in the numbers and puzzles of the island, yet nothing was explained. The lead Dharma scientist was at the concert at the end, yet . . . what was he doing there? Eloise and her different roles. Danielle Rousseau and the science teams... the list goes on and on.

kysirsoze
05-25-2010, 01:56 AM
The fans were trying to figure it out because it was constantly being brought up as part of the characters' experiences. I still don't understand completely understand many characters, like Charles Widmore, for instance. His character was completely wrapped up in the numbers and puzzles of the island, yet nothing was explained. The lead Dharma scientist was at the concert at the end, yet . . . what was he doing there? Eloise and her different roles. Danielle Rousseau and the science teams... the list goes on and on.

I'm with you on the Widmore thing. He could have used a slightly clearer motivation. Eloise as well. Her connection to the same time/space bending power that Jacob seemed to have was a little difficult to explain. Overall, though, I expected to be left with questions.

Back to the focus of the show, in that way I think the fans were taken on the same ride as the LOSTies. We all got wrapped up in the mystery of the island but along the way we became deeply invested in these characters and their lives. Finally we find out that was the point all along, just as the characters did. It didn't feel like a cop-out to me because they had invested so much time in developing these characters. I really cared about how they ended up and I was glad that was the focus rather than trying to explain every little oddity on the island.

Silock
05-25-2010, 02:34 AM
I'm with you on the Widmore thing. He could have used a slightly clearer motivation. Eloise as well. Her connection to the same time/space bending power that Jacob seemed to have was a little difficult to explain. Overall, though, I expected to be left with questions.

Back to the focus of the show, in that way I think the fans were taken on the same ride as the LOSTies. We all got wrapped up in the mystery of the island but along the way we became deeply invested in these characters and their lives. Finally we find out that was the point all along, just as the characters did. It didn't feel like a cop-out to me because they had invested so much time in developing these characters. I really cared about how they ended up and I was glad that was the focus rather than trying to explain every little oddity on the island.
I am glad they did, too... I just would have preferred both.

Baby Lee
05-25-2010, 03:18 AM
Kiddies, Dane has dropped in to demonstrate a textbook case of Begging the Question, that's Begging the Question, write it down, it'll be on the final.

PhillyChiefFan
05-25-2010, 06:54 AM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion mine is this:

If they ALL died when the plane crashed, then Jack had ONE HELL of an imagination, to imagine all the people, the relationships, friendships, emotions, and memories that everyone else on the island had.

In my mind, if it had been JUST about Jack, why the backstories of everyone else on the island? Why dedicate entire episodes to other people on the island? I believe they had been dead all season, only part of the island sank (you can see portions of it falling off and into the ocean in the finale.) I loved the finale, I think they did the best they could with what they had.

Maybe this was the case maybe not, but it doesn't make sense to me. Not saying the opposing opinion is wrong, just different from mine. I think in the end, it was a question posed to the audience, are you a person of faith or a person of science.

Can you look at the show for the value of faith vs. your tendency for needing concrete facts and evidence, or can you just believe and let go? That's what I took from it, and that's why I loved it.

Mile High Mania
05-25-2010, 06:58 AM
I think in the end, it was a question posed to the audience, are you a person of faith or a person of science.

Can you look at the show for the value of faith vs. your tendency for needing concrete facts and evidence, or can you just believe and let go? That's what I took from it, and that's why I loved it.

Nice.