PDA

View Full Version : Movies and TV The Official "Lost" the series discussion


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 [26]

Red Brooklyn
08-26-2010, 04:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrGRqDL43AU

It's the LOST epilogue! Quick, watch it before it gets taken down!

The first part is super ****ing condescending. The show's writers have always been insulting in the show itself to people who dare ask questions about plot holes and unresolved plot points. This epilogue is no different, making the two bumbling Dharma warehouse workers surrogates for the question-asking audience. That scene explains a couple of minor tidbits and, unfortunately, retcons plenty of stuff to explain some bigger questions. If only this scene weren't dripping with condescension.

The second part of the epilogue is much cooler. I'd watch a Ben, Hurley & Walt on-the-island spinoff. That'd be fun, just like the scene between the three of them here is fun.
As usual I disagree. :)

But, I didn't see any retcon... what are you refering to?

Reaper16
08-26-2010, 05:09 PM
As usual I disagree. :)

But, I didn't see any retcon... what are you refering to?
You disagree with what?

I'd have to watch it again to see what I felt was being retconned. I seem to recall them explaining away the island's birth problem somehow.

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 08:46 AM
I didn't find it condescending or insulting in any way. I also, as stated, didn't notice any retconning.

Reaper16
08-27-2010, 09:42 AM
I didn't find it condescending or insulting in any way. I also, as stated, didn't notice any retconning.
I don't see how you can even argue that it isn't condescending. All throughout the series a large contingent of LOST fans were speculating about all sorts of unexplained plot points and mysteries. They were asking a lot of questions. This epilogue was made in large part because this contingent of fans felt unsatisfied by the show's final season; they didn't think that enough of the island's mysteries were explained. So we're told there will be an epilogue on the boxed set that explains some things. This is ostensibly meant to appease this question-filled contingent of fans. So the question-filled fans all watch this epilogue and what do they get? Two clueless Dharma employees asking questions about island mysteries. These employees are surrogates for the question-filled fans. The implication is clear: these two dumbshits (they are portrayed as dumbshits) ask silly questions and so the question-filled fans are likewise just dumbshits that ask silly questions. Adding onto that massive amount of condescension that Damon and Carlton have for some of their show's fans is that Ben Linus becomes visibly annoyed at the questions. Linus takes the question answering segment like it is a banal chore. He's dialogue from this epilogue is a de facto rebuke from Damon and Carlton towards the fans that weren't on-board with how they ended the series. That first part of the epilogue takes special care to make fun of a large portion of the show's fanbase.

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 10:06 AM
Well, I didn't see it that way. I think Damon and Carlton have been very gracious in regards to their fans - often times giving them more than they need. Damon and Carton never owed the fanbase anything other than to finish their show. They did that.

And the epilogue was written and filmed during the final season. It wasn't just thrown together after the fact because some fans were pissy. Is it tongue in cheek? Yes. But I don't see it as insulting. It's meant to be fun. Another (thankless) gift.

I love how so much of the fanbase was so angry that characters in the series never just stopped and asked (point blank) the questions that were on all our minds. Now, TPTB have given fans just that - scene where, in fact, characters stop and ask point blank questions, and a character in the know provides a lot of answers. Damned if you do. Damnd if you don't, I suppose. I honestly think though that the polarizing affect S6 (and the epilogue) had on the fan community illustrates how special LOST was/is.

Reaper16
08-27-2010, 11:25 AM
Well, I didn't see it that way. I think Damon and Carlton have been very gracious in regards to their fans - often times giving them more than they need. Damon and Carton never owed the fanbase anything other than to finish their show. They did that.
I agree. Fans weren't owed answers. Damon and Carlton weren't concerned with answering things; they had their vision and they made their show. The fans likewise don't owe them a response that is free of disappointment or even anger just because they made their show.

And the epilogue was written and filmed during the final season. It wasn't just thrown together after the fact because some fans were pissy. Is it tongue in cheek? Yes. But I don't see it as insulting. It's meant to be fun. Another (thankless) gift.

I love how so much of the fanbase was so angry that characters in the series never just stopped and asked (point blank) the questions that were on all our minds. Now, TPTB have given fans just that - scene where, in fact, characters stop and ask point blank questions, and a character in the know provides a lot of answers. Damned if you do. Damnd if you don't, I suppose. I honestly think though that the polarizing affect S6 (and the epilogue) had on the fan community illustrates how special LOST was/is.
I can't believe you don't see the snooty attitude that Linus has when answering questions, or how dumb those two employees look for asking questions. There are precise rhetorical strategies being used here. A scene where people ask point blank questions does not have to be constructed the way that this epilogue was. And the epilogue did it in spots. The Hydra station video was fun and informative. The Hurley & Walt scene was fun and informative. The Ben answering questions part reeked of this attitude that Damn & Carlton used in the series proper on a few occasions, an attitude of "These people are asking questions that don't matter and they deserve to be chastised for it."

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 12:09 PM
Yeah, man, I just didn't see it that way. I found it playful. I didn't see Ben as snooty. The Dharma guys are a little bumbling, but it read as more caught off guard and confused than dumb to me.

Fans all have a right to their own reactions. You're right. They don't owe Darlton allegience or praise or anything of the sort. Especially if they don't genuinely feel it. However most of them (and not you, to your credit) seem to be demanding one for the other. These fans feel they are owed something for their investment. Then again, the show created and fostered that. It made itself available, accessible and open to imagination. There was bound to be disappointment. The polar reaction to S6 does not surprise me. Nor does the luke warm/mixed reception of "The New Man In Charge."

I get it. I just don't agree. I felt it was a great dessert to compliment an excellent meal.

Reaper16
08-27-2010, 12:14 PM
Yeah, man, I just didn't see it that way. I found it playful. I didn't see Ben as snooty. The Dharma guys are a little bumbling, but it read as more caught off guard and confused than dumb to me.

Fans all have a right to their own reactions. You're right. They don't owe Darlton allegience or praise or anything of the sort. Especially if they don't genuinely feel it. However most of them (and not you, to your credit) seem to be demanding one for the other. These fans feel they are owed something for their investment. Then again, the show created and fostered that. It made itself available, accessible and open to imagination. There was bound to be disappointment. The polar reaction to S6 does not surprise me. Nor does the luke warm/mixed reception of "The New Man In Charge."

I get it. I just don't agree. I felt it was a great dessert to compliment an excellent meal.
And, just to clarify, I agree with you wrt Season 6's divisive religious ending contributing to the show's specialness. If there's anything artistically special about LOST it is that it divided the fanbase into two camps that both reflect the show's central theme and one of the larger dialectics in the world itself (science vs faith).

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 12:33 PM
And, just to clarify, I agree with you wrt Season 6's divisive religious ending contributing to the show's specialness. If there's anything artistically special about LOST it is that it divided the fanbase into two camps that both reflect the show's central theme and one of the larger dialectics in the world itself (science vs faith).
You're alright by me, Reaper. You get it.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 12:54 PM
The Ben answering questions part reeked of this attitude that Damn & Carlton used in the series proper on a few occasions, an attitude of "These people are asking questions that don't matter and they deserve to be chastised for it."

I've followed Damon on Twitter since probably March. He's still a condescending dick and constantly mocks the fans in tweets in regards to new films and TV shows.

patteeu
08-27-2010, 01:20 PM
My critical assessment of the critical assessments: Clearly Reaper17 self-identifies with bumbling goofs more strongly than Red Brooklyn does.* ;)



________________
* j/k of course

Baby Lee
08-27-2010, 01:30 PM
Must say, I wouldn't have believed you if you told me a few years, heck A year, back how little I miss Lost.

Or if I did believe you, I'd have stopped watching right then.

I'd analogize it to showing the SB, and in the last 5 minutes it's announced that the scores will not count and both teams get a participation medal.

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 01:47 PM
I don't miss it quite as much as I'd expected either. But that's only because I was so completely satisfied with the conclusion. I know I'll revisit the series many, many times. But I'm in no hurry.

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 01:48 PM
My critical assessment of the critical assessments: Clearly Reaper17 self-identifies with bumbling goofs more strongly than Red Brooklyn does.* ;)
LMAO

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 02:23 PM
Must say, I wouldn't have believed you if you told me a few years, heck A year, back how little I miss Lost.

Or if I did believe you, I'd have stopped watching right then.

I'd analogize it to showing the SB, and in the last 5 minutes it's announced that the scores will not count and both teams get a participation medal.

I purchased seasons 1-4 on DVD and watched each several times while riding my exercise bike and working out.

I feel like a fool. Both Cuse & Lindelof deserve to be chained to modified Sybian machine, designed not to give an orgasm, but endless cockpunches.

Reaper16
08-27-2010, 02:38 PM
My critical assessment of the critical assessments: Clearly Reaper17 self-identifies with bumbling goofs more strongly than Red Brooklyn does.* ;)



________________
* j/k of course
LMAO I'm insulted that you had to footnote your joke.

irishjayhawk
08-27-2010, 02:44 PM
Must say, I wouldn't have believed you if you told me a few years, heck A year, back how little I miss Lost.

Or if I did believe you, I'd have stopped watching right then.

I'd analogize it to showing the SB, and in the last 5 minutes it's announced that the scores will not count and both teams get a participation medal.

I'd agree with this.

Baby Lee
08-27-2010, 02:49 PM
And I have the answer for each and every question about Lost. If someone's freaking out asking 'what going on here'

I simply say, 'it's a television show, nothing more nothing less'

But what about xxxx?

'it's part of a television plotline'

But what does it mean about yyyy?

'it means that the creators thought you musing about the effect of xxxx on yyyy would be compelling television.'

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2010, 02:56 PM
And I have the answer for each and every question about Lost. If someone's freaking out asking 'what going on here'

I simply say, 'it's a television show, nothing more nothing less'

But what about xxxx?

'it's part of a television plotline'

But what does it mean about yyyy?

'it means that the creators thought you musing about the effect of xxxx on yyyy would be compelling television.'

And for that, they deserve to spend eternity on the "island" they created being repeatedly assfucked by a tag team of polar bears.

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 03:01 PM
And I have the answer for each and every question about Lost. If someone's freaking out asking 'what going on here'

I simply say, 'it's a television show, nothing more nothing less'

But what about xxxx?

'it's part of a television plotline'

But what does it mean about yyyy?

'it means that the creators thought you musing about the effect of xxxx on yyyy would be compelling television.'

Were people really expecting more? That's all it's ever been. From the beginning to the end.

irishjayhawk
08-27-2010, 03:06 PM
And I have the answer for each and every question about Lost. If someone's freaking out asking 'what going on here'

I simply say, 'it's a television show, nothing more nothing less'

But what about xxxx?

'it's part of a television plotline'

But what does it mean about yyyy?

'it means that the creators thought you musing about the effect of xxxx on yyyy would be compelling television.'

If there was a way to delete the church scene from the finale (or do away with the finale altogether) would you have the same feelings you have now?

Baby Lee
08-27-2010, 03:38 PM
If there was a way to delete the church scene from the finale (or do away with the finale altogether) would you have the same feelings you have now?

The finale was fine, as a finale, the church scene was fine, as a final scene.

The problem is, the mythology of this show, and a great deal of its draw was all these little nuggets of mystery and intrigue, that they assured us; they had a plan for, and wasn't perdition.

So your have the legions of obsessed viewers, combing over scenes and stills for clues and weaving together elaborate theories that, in retrospect were more interesting than anything the creators intended.

And it turns out their plan was to tell us in the end that none of it mattered, and the non-perdition was a decidedly perditiony non-perdition.

So its like you go to the most gripping and enticing murder mystery dinner theater, and just when everyone thinks they have it all figured out, the hosts say 'meh, who cares, dinner's ready.'

Buck
08-27-2010, 04:26 PM
You guys make me sick.

Red Brooklyn
08-27-2010, 04:30 PM
The problem is, the mythology of this show, and a great deal of its draw was all these little nuggets of mystery and intrigue, that they assured us; they had a plan for, and wasn't perdition.
But the mythology and little nugets were intreguing. So the draw of the show was ligitimate. They did have a plan. And It wasn't perdition.
So your have the legions of obsessed viewers, combing over scenes and stills for clues and weaving together elaborate theories that, in retrospect were more interesting than anything the creators intended.
Combing over scenes and stills for clues was a fan created phenomenon. Thanks, in large part, to the advent and proficency of the internet.

Yes, most of the theories fans created were more interesting. But that's almost always the way it goes with serial thrillers. You have time to stop and think and fall in love with pet theories.
And it turns out their plan was to tell us in the end that none of it mattered, and the non-perdition was a decidedly perditiony non-perdition.
It did matter, though. Very much.

Baby Lee
08-27-2010, 05:20 PM
But the mythology and little nugets were intreguing. So the draw of the show was ligitimate. They did have a plan. And It wasn't perdition.

Finding clues to a mystery is a waste of time when there isn't actually a mystery, just the intimation of a mystery to draw viewers

It did matter, though. Very much.

It mattered only inasmuch as 'it all happened,' cold comfort for those who were interested in how and why it happened, which didn't matter at all [to the authors].

I stand behind my summarization of Lost "a TV show that wanted a lot of viewers, nothing more, nothing less."

To put it another way, the driving force behind a vast majority of the dedicated [non-Jate,Skate] viewers, was 'man this is awfully promising, and I sure hope it's worth it when it is all told and the pieces are assembled.' And when the assembled product is 'what you witnessed . . . . happened, oh, and everyone's dead,' it's, like I've said earlier, a mystery dinner theater with no mystery solved, or a SB with no score or winner.

keg in kc
08-27-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm not finding myself missing it at all, but my interest waned with the arrival of each new season.

Guru
08-28-2010, 12:35 AM
This thread is still alive?

Red Brooklyn
08-28-2010, 08:59 AM
But, as we all know, everyone dies. That doesn't mean that the lives lived before were meaningless.

Everything they did on the island mattered. There was a point. There was a how and why. There was a mystery and the show solved that mystery. Why should - continuing the story past the prime protagonist's death -showing that the characters died while presenting a fun little twist on the afterlife detract from everything else that did happen, and did have purpose?

The FS stuff was just a season long epilogue of sorts. LOST was tv show that wanted a lot of viewers. What tv show doesn't? Isn't that part of the point? And it was just a tv show. But it was a damn good tv show that had a tremendous affect on a lot of people. It was bold. It was thoughtful. It was gripping. It was art and entertainment. It was lovely.

Red Brooklyn
08-28-2010, 09:00 AM
This thread is still alive?

Can't keep a good thread down. :D

Reaper16
08-28-2010, 01:04 PM
But, as we all know, everyone dies. That doesn't mean that the lives lived before were meaningless.

Everything they did on the island mattered. There was a point. There was a how and why. There was a mystery and the show solved that mystery. Why should - continuing the story past the prime protagonist's death -showing that the characters died while presenting a fun little twist on the afterlife detract from everything else that did happen, and did have purpose?

The FS stuff was just a season long epilogue of sorts. LOST was tv show that wanted a lot of viewers. What tv show doesn't? Isn't that part of the point? And it was just a tv show. But it was a damn good tv show that had a tremendous affect on a lot of people. It was bold. It was thoughtful. It was gripping. It was art and entertainment. It was lovely.
What you call a "fun twist on the afterlife" I call a boring, unnecessary, meaningless slog for an entire season just so it could be all "plot twist; they's dead right now!" at the end.

Red Brooklyn
08-28-2010, 02:17 PM
What you call a "fun twist on the afterlife" I call a boring, unnecessary, meaningless slog for an entire season just so it could be all "plot twist; they's dead right now!" at the end.
I won't hold that against you. ;)

Baby Lee
08-28-2010, 04:16 PM
But, as we all know, everyone dies. That doesn't mean that the lives lived before were meaningless.

Everything they did on the island mattered. There was a point. There was a how and why. There was a mystery and the show solved that mystery. Why should - continuing the story past the prime protagonist's death -showing that the characters died while presenting a fun little twist on the afterlife detract from everything else that did happen, and did have purpose?

The FS stuff was just a season long epilogue of sorts. LOST was tv show that wanted a lot of viewers. What tv show doesn't? Isn't that part of the point? And it was just a tv show. But it was a damn good tv show that had a tremendous affect on a lot of people. It was bold. It was thoughtful. It was gripping. It was art and entertainment. It was lovely.

Let me try another tact, what if, when we come to the end of Stephen Hawking's life we gain the insight [or had at the end of Einstein's], that 'you know that stuff they spent their life pondering, forget it all, what they were studying was in fact a primal magic that needn't concern you, what you should focus on is the story of the person they became as they studied, because that's all that really matters.'

IMO, that's the story of Lost.

Red Brooklyn
08-29-2010, 09:06 AM
I guess our difference is that I don't really have a problem with that. Though, your take is a little over simplified, perhaps, it is not inaccurate. For me the show began and ended with a focus on the story of the person each became as they studied. Because that is all that really matters. That's what the show was about.

keg in kc
07-23-2011, 09:52 AM
Holy crap, they weren't making it all up. Lost season 1 lost scene:

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://c.gigcount.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEzMTE*MzI2NDgwMDEmcHQ9MTMxMTQzMjY1MDk*NSZwPTczMDM3MSZkPUFCQ19TRlBfV2FsdF9FbWJlZF9WRDU1MTM2/Mjg3X*xPU1RhdENvbWljLUNvbjIwMTEtJmc9NCZvPWU3ZjczNGFkOTU*NDQzYWRhZTE*YjVhYzFmODJkNzk*Jm9mPTA=.gif" /><object classid="clsid:D<param name="movie" value="http://a.abc.com/media/_global/swf/embed/2.6.9/SFP_Walt.swf" /><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowNetworking" value="all" /><param name="flashvars" value="configUrl=http://a.abc.com/service/sfp/embedplayerconfig/id/&configId=735609&playlistId=165261&clipId=VD55136287&showId=SH006723620000&gig_lt=1311432648001&gig_pt=1311432650945&gig_g=4" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed src="http://a.abc.com/media/_global/swf/embed/2.6.9/SFP_Walt.swf" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" allowNetworking="all" allowfullscreen="true" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="398" height="244" flashvars="configUrl=http://a.abc.com/service/sfp/embedplayerconfig/id/&configId=735609&playlistId=165261&clipId=VD55136287&showId=SH006723620000&gig_lt=1311432648001&gig_pt=1311432650945&gig_g=4" name="ABCESNWID"></embed></object>

Reaper16
07-23-2011, 01:19 PM
Sure, be all self-deprecating after the fact, showrunners. Nice attempt at saving face. Not.

Also, MIB shouldn't be embarrassed over the name Barry. It's a perfectly good name. Maybe even the best name.

Red Brooklyn
07-23-2011, 02:03 PM
I hate when people have a sense of humor. Drive me crazy!

Buck
07-23-2011, 02:16 PM
I hate when people have a sense of humor. Drive me crazy!

SERIOUSLY I'M FUCKING RAGING RIGHT NOW

Guru
07-23-2011, 02:53 PM
meh

Param
07-23-2011, 03:26 PM
I think the show should've ended after season 5. Season 6 was awful, imo.

Buck
07-23-2011, 03:29 PM
I am currently rewatching it. It should have ended around season 3.

rocknrolla
07-23-2011, 07:51 PM
I am currently rewatching it. It should have ended around season 3.

Bro, I'm all with you. I loved that show. But after season three, it was the most frustrating show to watch and keep up with. I feel I wasted so much time watching episodes over and over. Just to make sense of what was going on.
Posted via Mobile Device

Baby Lee
07-23-2011, 09:05 PM
In a cross thread reference, I love, love, LOVE, that George R. R. Martin's greatest fear that he'll 'pull a Lost' in ending ASoIaF. As evidenced by Lindelof's interview with Kevin Pollack, it cut deep and was kind of inescapable, as Martin is a hero of his.

What we'll never know, but I would love to, is how Abrams would have ended the show.

Param
07-24-2011, 01:00 AM
I am currently rewatching it. It should have ended around season 3.

Bro, I'm all with you. I loved that show. But after season three, it was the most frustrating show to watch and keep up with. I feel I wasted so much time watching episodes over and over. Just to make sense of what was going on.
Posted via Mobile Device

I've heard this multiple times everywhere. Can't remember what happened at the end of season3. will go look.

Deberg_1990
07-24-2011, 02:47 PM
I am currently rewatching it. It should have ended around season 3.

Did season 3 end with Jacks flash forward? That was a cool cliffhanger

Buck
07-24-2011, 02:56 PM
Did season 3 end with Jacks flash forward? That was a cool cliffhanger

Yeah and it's also when Charlie died in the underwater Dharma station and put "Not Penny's Boat" on his hand.

Reaper16
07-24-2011, 03:04 PM
CHAA LEE

Red Brooklyn
07-24-2011, 06:02 PM
Yeah and it's also when Charlie died in the underwater Dharma station and put "Not Penny's Boat" on his hand.
The Season Three finale is one of my personal favorites. Not many shows have had a season finale of that caliber. Just outstanding.

As much as Season Three floundered, it was still above average network television. And it ended really, really strong. I thought Season Four was the best season of the show since the first. The first third (or arguably half) of S3 was a mess, but the show rebounded just fine.

Red Brooklyn
07-24-2011, 06:05 PM
In a cross thread reference, I love, love, LOVE, that George R. R. Martin's greatest fear that he'll 'pull a Lost' in ending ASoIaF. As evidenced by Lindelof's interview with Kevin Pollack, it cut deep and was kind of inescapable, as Martin is a hero of his.

What we'll never know, but I would love to, is how Abrams would have ended the show.
Yeah, except Mr. Martin completely missed the point. And got it all wrong. The only person who misunderstood the finale of LOST more than George RR Martin was Dane McCloud.

durtyrute
07-25-2011, 12:57 PM
When that show came out I was one of it's biggest fans. Watched every episode even though after a while they were all shit. Then, when it comes time for the series finally some bullshit came up and I didn't get to watch it. Then I had a chance a week later and by that time everyone was already saying what happened so I never saw it.

Mr. Plow
07-25-2011, 01:09 PM
I've been watching it from the beginning on Netflix for awhile now. Still enjoy it. I'm down to about the last 3-4 episodes.

Urc Burry
07-25-2011, 01:18 PM
I almost hope I never get into a show like I did Lost...I looked forward to one day a week, whether it was Wednesday or Thursday or whenever it was. That's a problem haha

Rausch
07-25-2011, 01:18 PM
Holy crap, they weren't making it all up. Lost season 1 lost scene:

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://c.gigcount.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEzMTE*MzI2NDgwMDEmcHQ9MTMxMTQzMjY1MDk*NSZwPTczMDM3MSZkPUFCQ19TRlBfV2FsdF9FbWJlZF9WRDU1MTM2/Mjg3X*xPU1RhdENvbWljLUNvbjIwMTEtJmc9NCZvPWU3ZjczNGFkOTU*NDQzYWRhZTE*YjVhYzFmODJkNzk*Jm9mPTA=.gif" /><object classid="clsid:D<param name="movie" value="http://a.abc.com/media/_global/swf/embed/2.6.9/SFP_Walt.swf" /><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowNetworking" value="all" /><param name="flashvars" value="configUrl=http://a.abc.com/service/sfp/embedplayerconfig/id/&configId=735609&playlistId=165261&clipId=VD55136287&showId=SH006723620000&gig_lt=1311432648001&gig_pt=1311432650945&gig_g=4" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed src="http://a.abc.com/media/_global/swf/embed/2.6.9/SFP_Walt.swf" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" allowNetworking="all" allowfullscreen="true" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="398" height="244" flashvars="configUrl=http://a.abc.com/service/sfp/embedplayerconfig/id/&configId=735609&playlistId=165261&clipId=VD55136287&showId=SH006723620000&gig_lt=1311432648001&gig_pt=1311432650945&gig_g=4" name="ABCESNWID"></embed></object>

LMAO

Rausch
07-25-2011, 01:20 PM
So, in the end, people are crying because they didn't the the answers they wanted?

How ****ing ironic is that?LMAO

Rausch
07-25-2011, 01:26 PM
The last season was only a let-down because they made such a point of pointing everything out.

Of course, once you encourage the audience to carefully dissect each and every detail by episode they'll be ticked when each and every question isn't answered at the end.

It was an odd contrast. It was the point of every episode but the overall message was meant to be vague and open to interpretation.

It becomes the reason you love it or hate it...

durtyrute
07-25-2011, 01:28 PM
After all that time of, "All of your questions will be answered" ,when it came down to it, I forgot the fucking questions.

Buck
01-01-2012, 03:46 AM
I got random rep for a post in this thread. Person who repped me, are you watching this show now and is that why you were scrolling through it?

Kyle DeLexus
01-01-2012, 04:11 AM
So I started watching this show awhile back first season was good. I got a little into the second season and I've just lost interest.

NJChiefsFan
01-06-2012, 12:42 AM
So I started watching this show awhile back first season was good. I got a little into the second season and I've just lost interest.

Damn I think the second season was my favorite.

Kyle DeLexus
01-09-2012, 11:59 AM
Damn I think the second season was my favorite.

Idk why I said season 2. I meant I just started season 3 and lost interest. Season 2 was very good.

Baby Lee
11-29-2012, 11:11 AM
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8670609/alan-sepinwall-origins-lost

Red Brooklyn
11-29-2012, 02:00 PM
Nice article.

Though most of the information is already known. I want what happens next. We all know how S1 started, developed, changed everything.

I want to hear Cuse & Lindelof talk about everything after that. I want to know more about Mr. Eko's planned arch. I want to know more about what kind of "course correction" took place from S2 to S6.

This was one of the best (if not the absolute best) network dramas in TV history. I never get tired of reading, hearing, talking, thinking about and/or rewatching the show.

Thanks for posting this.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2012, 02:17 PM
Nice article.

Though most of the information is already known. I want what happens next. We all know how S1 started, developed, changed everything.

I want to hear Cuse & Lindelof talk about everything after that. I want to know more about Mr. Eko's planned arch. I want to know more about what kind of "course correction" took place from S2 to S6.

This was one of the best (if not the absolute best) network dramas in TV history. I never get tired of reading, hearing, talking, thinking about and/or rewatching the show.

Thanks for posting this.

And I feel the exact opposite (still!).

What an epic fucking waste of time.

If given the chance, I'd punch Lindelof in the ovaries.

ragedogg69
11-29-2012, 02:29 PM
If given the chance, I'd punch Lindelof in the ovaries.

I dont disagree, but I would punch him for Cowboys vs Aliens and Prometheus than Lost. It seems he has epic ideas, but cannot bring them to any logical substance.

Red Brooklyn
11-29-2012, 02:36 PM
I haven't seen Cowboys & Aliens. But my understanding is that Orci and Kurtzman had a lot more to do with that script than Lindelof did. Maybe that's inaccurate, but that's always what I'd heard/read.

Haven't seen Prometheus either. But I know a lot of people were bummed/upset/bothered/confused by that one. And that one is absolutely on Lindelof.

I'm guessing I'll like it, since I really like Lindelof's writing style and sensibility. And, again, my undying love of LOST and everything about it makes me want to like Lindelof and everything he does. I might be to biased to be totally objective.

Still, I'm looking forward to finally seeing Prometheus one of these days.

Red Brooklyn
11-29-2012, 02:36 PM
And I feel the exact opposite (still!).

What an epic fucking waste of time.

If given the chance, I'd punch Lindelof in the ovaries.

That's alright. We can't all agree on everything. At least you gave the thing a shot. And I'm sorry you hated it so much.

Believe me, I wish everyone could love the thing as much as I do.

Frosty
11-29-2012, 02:45 PM
Cowboys vs Aliens and Prometheus

Meh. I liked both movies. They aren't "the greatest movies ever" or anything but they are reasonable popcorn movies.

I'm usually a sucker for these kind of shows but only made it halfway through Season 3 of "Lost". Watching that show was like having a hot chick whisper in your ear about all of the great things she was going to do with you and then having her go shopping with your mother. It gets you all hot and bothered with no payoff.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2012, 02:47 PM
I dont disagree, but I would punch him for Cowboys vs Aliens and Prometheus than Lost. It seems he has epic ideas, but cannot bring them to any logical substance.

I won't see either of those movies because of him but I've heard both suck anyway.

But at least that's only about 4 hours of your life, whereas LOST was 6 years, 125 episodes or so AND I spent money on DVD seasons 1 through 4.

BigMeatballDave
11-29-2012, 02:48 PM
I won't see either of those movies because of him but I've heard both suck anyway.

But at least that's only about 4 hours of your life, whereas LOST was 6 years, 125 episodes or so AND I spent money on DVD seasons 1 through 4.

Prometheus wasn't bad.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2012, 02:49 PM
That's alright. We can't all agree on everything. At least you gave the thing a shot. And I'm sorry you hated it so much.

Believe me, I wish everyone could love the thing as much as I do.

I hated it because the final season was fucking bullshit. No answers about the mysteries of the island, a goofy ending scene with various religious symbols and other useless horseshit.

They fucking blew it. And Orci & Kurtzman have completely destroyed the ending to Fringe as well. It should have just ended when Bell disappeared at the end of the last season and not gone all "future" with it.

I'm going to be livid if they fuck up the next Star Trek movies, although since I'm already anticipating a disaster, it'll make it easier to deal with.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2012, 02:54 PM
Prometheus wasn't bad.

I've read the script and it's typical, ridiculous, open-ended, Lindelof nonsense. I have friends I trust that have seen it and said it was an epic disaster.

I'll watch it once it shows up on the premium channels but I'm not expecting much.

I'm glad to hear you halfway enjoyed it.

Red Brooklyn
11-29-2012, 03:01 PM
I hated it because the final season was fucking bullshit. No answers about the mysteries of the island, a goofy ending scene with various religious symbols and other useless horseshit.
I guess I get that. A lot of people feel the same way, obviously. But I'm of the mind that the ending doesn't have to detract from the journey. And it was an amazing journey. At least, it was for me.

But I'd also argue that they answered everything they needed to answer. Whether or not one liked the answers is a different story all together. But I'd argue the answers are there.

The very ending (the reveal in the flash-sideways) was a little weird. But I didn't hate it. And the more I've thought about it/rewatched it, the more it's grown on me. It certainly wasn't what I was expecting or what I would have done, but I didn't hate it.

Everything else in the series, everything else about the ending, I thought, was just fantastic. Great entertainment. Thought provoking. Brilliant character studies. Topical. Philosophical without being too flimsy or talking down to the audience.

ragedogg69
11-29-2012, 04:37 PM
I will defend Lost in its ability to make character development compelling. I never expected to be so involved with the antisocial Korean couple the beginning of the series. Thats great writing.

However, they also made Kate absolutely awful by the end of the series.

Had they come out around season 2 or 3 and immediately said, they will leave some things on the island a mystery, people would not have been so pissed.

That quote at the end of the granland piece is telling. People were pissed at the hatch cliffhanger. How could they not see a problem with ending the series with no payoff?

Buck
11-29-2012, 05:05 PM
And I feel the exact opposite (still!).

What an epic fucking waste of time.

If given the chance, I'd punch Lindelof in the ovaries.

Ever read The Stand?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the novel if you have.

Red Brooklyn
11-29-2012, 05:54 PM
I will defend Lost in its ability to make character development compelling. I never expected to be so involved with the antisocial Korean couple the beginning of the series. Thats great writing.

However, they also made Kate absolutely awful by the end of the series.

Had they come out around season 2 or 3 and immediately said, they will leave some things on the island a mystery, people would not have been so pissed.

That quote at the end of the granland piece is telling. People were pissed at the hatch cliffhanger. How could they not see a problem with ending the series with no payoff?
Again, I suppose it depends on how you're defining "payoff." Because the show does end. The mysteries do get answered. There is a payoff in that sense.

Whether or not it was satisfying is a matter for each individual viewer. But I wouldn't say they ended "the series with no payoff."

And, I think, it's irrational and a little absurd that anyone got angry at a television show for ending it's first season on a cliffhanger like that. I thought it was brilliant in every way. Like Lindelof said, I suppose I can understand a level of disappointment, but anger?

I think that says a lot more about the viewers than it does about the show.

BigMeatballDave
11-29-2012, 07:28 PM
Ever read The Stand?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the novel if you have.

I never read it, but the mini-series was a snoozefest.

BigMeatballDave
11-29-2012, 07:32 PM
I hated it because the final season was fucking bullshit. No answers about the mysteries of the island, a goofy ending scene with various religious symbols and other useless horseshit.

Fucking this! They didn't explain shit.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2012, 10:10 PM
Again, I suppose it depends on how you're defining "payoff." Because the show does end. The mysteries do get answered. There is a payoff in that sense.

No, they do not.

Who was Jacob? Who was his brother? How old were they? How long had they been on the island? Why were there Egyptian symbols and statues everywhere? Why were the "Losties" brought to the island? How could the island move through time? How did Penelope's father know how to travel back and forth?

What happened to Sun & Jin's baby? Why was Walt "special"? What happened to Michael? JFC, I could go on and on and on.

I fully believe the Island was meant to be a metaphor for "Purgatory" but since Howard Stern and many other people immediately said it was purgatory, ABC quickly denied that fact. Then, they had to come up with other bullshit, which they failed to explain.

The producers THEN said that Season SIX was purgatory, which is horseshit.

They may have done a great job with the characters and their backstories but they did a fucking horrific job of explaining WHY they were all on the island and WHAT the Island had to do with their lives and the lives of others.

Plus, why wasn't the island, or at least life on the island, completely devastated when the nuclear warhead was detonated? That was just plain silly.

patteeu
11-29-2012, 10:26 PM
No, they do not.

Who was Jacob? Who was his brother? How old were they? How long had they been on the island? Why were there Egyptian symbols and statues everywhere? Why were the "Losties" brought to the island? How could the island move through time? How did Penelope's father know how to travel back and forth?

What happened to Sun & Jin's baby? Why was Walt "special"? What happened to Michael? JFC, I could go on and on and on.

I fully believe the Island was meant to be a metaphor for "Purgatory" but since Howard Stern and many other people immediately said it was purgatory, ABC quickly denied that fact. Then, they had to come up with other bullshit, which they failed to explain.

The producers THEN said that Season SIX was purgatory, which is horseshit.

They may have done a great job with the characters and their backstories but they did a ****ing horrific job of explaining WHY they were all on the island and WHAT the Island had to do with their lives and the lives of others.

Plus, why wasn't the island, or at least life on the island, completely devastated when the nuclear warhead was detonated? That was just plain silly.

Yeah, it was a pretty great show up until the point where we learned that we were being cheated by a story with no payoff for so many of the things that kept us tuned in.

Buck
11-29-2012, 10:27 PM
To say there was no payoff is ridiculous.

DaneMcCloud
11-29-2012, 10:28 PM
To say there was no payoff is ridiculous.

What was the payoff?

patteeu
11-29-2012, 10:31 PM
To say there was no payoff is ridiculous.

No payoff "for so many of the things that kept us tuned in". That doesn't mean no payoff at all. Read Dane's post for a list of mysteries that went unanswered and that's just skimming the surface.

Reaper16
11-29-2012, 11:55 PM
The show's biggest artistic achievement is to make every viewer realize whether they are a man of science or a man of faith.

Men of faith will accept the show on its own terms, are generally uninterested in having an answer for every little thing.

Men of science see the literally like hundreds of dropped plot threads and unresolved issues and hold those against the show (I am one of these people for the most part).

In the vast, vast majority of cases, one's reaction to LOST is a great predictor of their real-life religious/spiritual beliefs.

lcarus
11-30-2012, 12:38 AM
I've still never seen this show. I mean obviously I've seen little bits and pieces plus promos and commercials from TV, but that's all. How great is this show? I know a lot of people absolutely adore it, and there are some people who loathe it. Just makes me wonder if the people who hate it only hate it because it was popular.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 06:46 AM
The show's biggest artistic achievement is to make every viewer realize whether they are a man of science or a man of faith.

Men of faith will accept the show on its own terms, are generally uninterested in having an answer for every little thing.

Men of science see the literally like hundreds of dropped plot threads and unresolved issues and hold those against the show (I am one of these people for the most part).

In the vast, vast majority of cases, one's reaction to LOST is a great predictor of their real-life religious/spiritual beliefs.
I don't disagree with this post,but I will say that I'm an atheist.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 06:56 AM
No, they do not.

Who was Jacob? Who was his brother? How old were they? How long had they been on the island? Why were there Egyptian symbols and statues everywhere? Why were the "Losties" brought to the island? How could the island move through time? How did Penelope's father know how to travel back and forth?

What happened to Sun & Jin's baby? Why was Walt "special"? What happened to Michael? JFC, I could go on and on and on.
Fair enough. Not every single, little, tiny, thing was answered. But they answered all the important questions. I'm not sure how the questions you're asking here have much barring. Jacob was old. He was there a long time. Since before Egyptians. Why does it matter exactly how old; exactly how long? That has nothing to do with the story being told - the story of the survivors of Flight 815.

If these are the kinds of questions you are angry about being left unanswered, I can see why you hate it so much. And I imagine there is no way to answer any other questions you have in a satisfactory way.

They explained how Widmore traveled back and forth from the island. And Michael died. We saw it happen.

The island wasn't destroyed by a nuclear blast because... well.... probably because that's just suspension of disbelief. It's a TV show. The writers would probably tell you the special properties of the island had an affect.

Buck
11-30-2012, 01:10 PM
What was the payoff?

You know how excited it made you feel to watch it every week (even if it was only the first 4 or 5 seasons)?

I don't know about you, but every Wednesday (or Thursday for that one season) I was so happy because it was coming on.

Not only that but they did answer a shit load of stuff. Things changed along the way that didn't allow them to do what they wanted, and that accounts for some of the things.

Sure they didn't answer everything, but who cares? It was entertaining as all hell, you can't deny that.

durtyrute
11-30-2012, 01:32 PM
I was sucked in like everyone else. I managed to watch every fucking episode of that show only to miss the very last one. I was pissed off to the point of no return. Then, I realized that they probably didn't answer anything anyway, so I said fuck it. Maybe I should go and try to watch the last one just for closure.

patteeu
11-30-2012, 01:47 PM
I was sucked in like everyone else. I managed to watch every ****ing episode of that show only to miss the very last one. I was pissed off to the point of no return. Then, I realized that they probably didn't answer anything anyway, so I said **** it. Maybe I should go and try to watch the last one just for closure.

You should. The show didn't answer all the questions many of us wanted answered, but at least it was an ending.

On a related note, I watched every episode of the first season of 24 and then had a commitment I couldn't avoid for the final episode. That was a bummer. (I eventually saw it in reruns, but I'd already been exposed to spoilers so it wasn't really the same).

durtyrute
11-30-2012, 02:02 PM
You should. The show didn't answer all the questions many of us wanted answered, but at least it was an ending.

On a related note, I watched every episode of the first season of 24 and then had a commitment I couldn't avoid for the final episode. That was a bummer. (I eventually saw it in reruns, but I'd already been exposed to spoilers so it wasn't really the same).

Yea, I've had people tell me what happened, but I don't really remember now. It's amazing how something can piss you off so much time and time again, yet you keep coming back for more.



Kinda like being a Chiefs fan






















or being married.

BigMeatballDave
11-30-2012, 05:17 PM
You know how excited it made you feel to watch it every week (even if it was only the first 4 or 5 seasons)?

I don't know about you, but every Wednesday (or Thursday for that one season) I was so happy because it was coming on.

Not only that but they did answer a shit load of stuff. Things changed along the way that didn't allow them to do what they wanted, and that accounts for some of the things.

Sure they didn't answer everything, but who cares? It was entertaining as all hell, you can't deny that.

Entertaining? Sure. A ton of WTF moments.

It would have been SO much more entertaining had they explained everything.

It's like masturbating and getting close then stopping without ejaculating.

What was the point?

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 05:40 PM
Entertaining? Sure. A ton of WTF moments.

It would have been SO much more entertaining had they explained everything.

It's like masturbating and getting close then stopping without ejaculating.

What was the point?
What wasn't explained that left you wanting? Just curious.

JASONSAUTO
11-30-2012, 05:59 PM
You should. The show didn't answer all the questions many of us wanted answered, but at least it was an ending.

On a related note, I watched every episode of the first season of 24 and then had a commitment I couldn't avoid for the final episode. That was a bummer. (I eventually saw it in reruns, but I'd already been exposed to spoilers so it wasn't really the same).
What happened? I missed the last episode too.

Only one I missed. Fml
Posted via Mobile Device

patteeu
11-30-2012, 06:03 PM
What happened? I missed the last episode too.

Only one I missed. Fml
Posted via Mobile Device

Here's a pretty extensive synopsis from IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1467635/synopsis). Needless to say, it's full of spoilers.

Guru
11-30-2012, 06:53 PM
That show had no payoff at all. I felt like I had just wasted the last 6 years of my life after that finale.

JASONSAUTO
11-30-2012, 08:13 PM
Here's a pretty extensive synopsis from IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1467635/synopsis). Needless to say, it's full of spoilers.

Thank you
Posted via Mobile Device

Baby Lee
11-30-2012, 08:36 PM
What wasn't explained that left you wanting? Just curious.

EVERYTHING was explained as a fever dream of a dead man. But along the way there were TONS and TONS of intriguing mysteries that were floated and subsequently ignored. Were I of the notion, I could catalog PAGES and PAGES of plot points, visual anomalies, hinted conspiracies, shadowy characters referenced, backstories hinted at, etc. etc. that Carlton and Cuse were more than satisfied to introduce as tantalizing mysteries to by subsequently explained with no intention whatsoever to do so.

It's like if you took Watergate, the Kennedy assassinations, the Patraeus scandal, the Teapot DOme, the Bay of Pigs, and the popularity of 2 1/2 Men, promised to establish how they were all linked to one common conspiracy, only to awake the next morning attributing everything to a bit of heartburn from a too rich piece of carrot cake. eaten last night.

If you want to answer your own question, start on page one of this thread and catalog each question contained therein, then justify how each was answered.

BigRedChief
11-30-2012, 08:38 PM
I've still never seen this show. I mean obviously I've seen little bits and pieces plus promos and commercials from TV, but that's all. How great is this show? I know a lot of people absolutely adore it, and there are some people who loathe it. Just makes me wonder if the people who hate it only hate it because it was popular.I watched every episode. Talked about them and debated where the storyline was going etc. All of it was a dying mans dream? BS

I wanted to know the same answers that Dane mentioned. There was no payoff. The writers fucked us and still don't come clean why they decided to do that to its viewers.

BigRedChief
11-30-2012, 08:42 PM
I was sucked in like everyone else. I managed to watch every fucking episode of that show only to miss the very last one. I was pissed off to the point of no return. Then, I realized that they probably didn't answer anything anyway, so I said fuck it. Maybe I should go and try to watch the last one just for closure.It's all on Netflix.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 08:49 PM
EVERYTHING was explained as a fever dream of a dead man. But along the way there were TONS and TONS of intriguing mysteries that were floated and subsequently ignored. Were I of the notion, I could catalog PAGES and PAGES of plot points, visual anomalies, hinted conspiracies, shadowy characters referenced, backstories hinted at, etc. etc. that Carlton and Cuse were more than satisfied to introduce as tantalizing mysteries to by subsequently explained with no intention whatsoever to do so.

It's like if you took Watergate, the Kennedy assassinations, the Patraeus scandal, the Teapot DOme, the Bay of Pigs, and the popularity of 2 1/2 Men, promised to establish how they were all linked to one common conspiracy, only to awake the next morning attributing everything to a bit of heartburn from a too rich piece of carrot cake. eaten last night.

If you want to answer your own question, start on page one of this thread and catalog each question contained therein, then justify how each was answered.
I'm perfectly happy with the answers the show provided. I don't need to go fishing for questions others felt went unanswered.

Of course there were some red herrings along the way. Some by design and some just an unfortunate casualty of the process (ABC dragging their feet on an end date, for example). And some viewers latched on to things that were less important and made them very important in their own minds. Can't fault the creators for that.

And fever dream? Really? I'd recommend going back and watching again if that's really what you took away from it.

I'm not trying to stir up old shit. People that hated it, hated it, and I get that. I'm not here to change minds. I'm just curious, if there's a common thread among people who felt there was no payoff. I'm wondering if lots of people are citing the same mysteries as "unsolved" or "unexplained." Just curious if there's a consensus.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 08:51 PM
I watched every episode. Talked about them and debated where the storyline was going etc. All of it was a dying mans dream? BS

I wanted to know the same answers that Dane mentioned. There was no payoff. The writers fucked us and still don't come clean why they decided to do that to its viewers.
Again, it wasn't a dying man's dream.

Whatever happened, happened. It's one of the major themes of the show.

I'd be livid too if that's really what the show boiled down to.

Baby Lee
11-30-2012, 08:57 PM
Again, it wasn't a dying man's dream.

Whatever happened, happened. It's one of the major themes of the show.

I'd be livid too if that's really what the show boiled down to.

Just a small [minute?] example, but I recall pondering a picture of Michael Emerson's childhood sweetheart as a child, ostensibly from the 70s, with a book published in the 2000's featured prominently on the bookshelf behind her.

Could just be lazy set design, but, contrary to your assertion above that red herrings were'n't the showrunners' fault, this was in a period of the show where C&C REVELED in viewers cueiing into the 'subtle' visual cues that they so meticulously planted.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:01 PM
Just a small [minute?] example, but I recall pondering a picture of Michael Emerson's childhood sweetheart as a child, ostensibly from the 70s, with a book published in the 2000's featured prominently on the bookshelf behind her.

Could just be lazy set design, but, contrary to your assertion above that red herrings were'n't the showrunners' fault, this was in a period of the show where C&C REVELED in viewers cueiing into the 'subtle' visual cues that they so meticulously planted.
Actually, I said some were by design. A good example is Walt on the milk carton. But that's also an example of an easter egg just for the fans that had nothing to do with the content of the show.

There are also several examples of mistakes in the show that the audience latched onto and insisted were clues. One example is when one of the show's crew members was caught in frame ducking behind a crate. Everyone watching thought it was some big clue - who is this person? Why are they hiding? Was that Charlotte? She had red hair, I think that was Charlotte!

But the show runners admitted it was just a film flub. A crew member was in the frame and they didn't have another take.

So, yes, some of those things are intentional. Some are just jokes for the viewers that don't amount to more than just good natured fun. And some are just mistakes.

I don't recall the exact situation you're referring to. But I'd bet my bottom dollar it was just an overlooked prop.

The Iron Chief
11-30-2012, 09:05 PM
No, they do not.

Who was Jacob? Who was his brother? How old were they? How long had they been on the island? Why were there Egyptian symbols and statues everywhere? Why were the "Losties" brought to the island? How could the island move through time? How did Penelope's father know how to travel back and forth?

What happened to Sun & Jin's baby? Why was Walt "special"? What happened to Michael? JFC, I could go on and on and on.



This^
I enjoyed the show every week and couldnt wait for the questions to be answered.
Like many movies or even books I'd be ok with a couple slipping by..but there has to be 50 Big questions that were never answered in the least.

There was no pay out for the build up.

The last episode..their all DEAD?!?! .. no sh1t I knew that after I saw the first trailer on tv Before the series even aired.
I wanted to hear the story tellers thoughts on what had transpired, were they in purgatory..and all those infinite questions none of which were answered.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:06 PM
If LOST had one major problem it was that the show was so universal, so gripping, that people made it there own. The audience felt ownership of it. And, I think, that's where so much of the letdown came from.

The other problem is that the show came about during the internet age. People discussed the show like crazy. The show runners took advantage of that, and sometimes it backfired. You want to blame somebody? Blame that asshole who posted the screenshot of the fake polar bear from the first run of ads for the pilot episode.

If that person hadn't done that, Lindelof & Co might not have worried so much about the minute attention people were paying to their show.

JASONSAUTO
11-30-2012, 09:06 PM
So that synapsis ends halfway through it in my phone.


Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Who was supposedly dreaming?
Posted via Mobile Device

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:07 PM
This^
I enjoyed the show every week and couldnt wait for the questions to be answered.
Like many movies or even books I'd be ok with a couple slipping by..but there has to be 50 Big questions that were never answered in the least.

There was no pay out for the build up.

The last episode..their all DEAD?!?! .. no sh1t I knew that after I saw the first trailer on tv Before the series even aired.
I wanted to hear the story tellers thoughts on what had transpired, were they in purgatory..and all those infinite questions none of which were answered.
They're only dead in the flash-sides sequences in S6. The rest of the time they are very much alive.

JASONSAUTO
11-30-2012, 09:07 PM
So everyone was dead?
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
11-30-2012, 09:07 PM
So everyone died at some point?

Then they were alive at the end?
Posted via Mobile Device

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:08 PM
So that synapsis ends halfway through it in my phone.


Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Who was supposedly dreaming?
Posted via Mobile Device
People often misinterpret the ending as "the whole thing was Jack's dream."

This was not the case.

JASONSAUTO
11-30-2012, 09:08 PM
People often misinterpret the ending as "the whole thing was Jack's dream."

This was not the case.

Jack died then?
Posted via Mobile Device

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:15 PM
So everyone died at some point?

Then they were alive at the end?
Posted via Mobile Device
It's hard to explain without watching it. Every season had a "flash" gimmick. For seasons 1-3 it was a "flashback." We saw the castaways present on the island, and we saw flashbacks to their lives before the crash.

Season 6 initiated what was called the "flash-sideways." We saw their present lives on the island, and we saw flashes of their lives off the island. These flashes were different than before. Things had changed in each person's life. Jack had a kid, for example, in the flash-sideways. He never had a kid in the real flashbacks.

Everyone speculated on the reality of the flash-sideways. Many thought it was an alternate reality created by the bomb going off at the end of S5. The idea was that by blowing up the bomb, all the castaways would get a reset. They would erase their original pasts and have new lives, free of their original choices and the island.

It was revealed that the flash-sideways was actually an afterlife. It was metaphysical world created for the survivors as a meeting place.

Eventually, everyone on the show did die. As all human beings do, of course. But they all died at different times. The only one (IIRC) that actually dies in the finale is Jack. We see him close his eyes and die on screen.

This lead many to speculate that the whole show had been some sort of dream, or that the whole thing was a purgatory or afterlife. In fact, all the action on the island happened. It's all real. Not a dream. Not purgatory.

The flash-sideways was a sort of purgatory, but that's it. I get why that pissed people off, too. Because they sort of wasted a good chunk of season six making us thing what happened in the flashes mattered. It mattered in a spiritual sense, but not in a plot sense.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:16 PM
Jack died then?
Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, Jack died in the finale. But he wasn't dead the whole time. Nor was he dreaming.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:25 PM
I like things that are open to interpretation, too. Normally, I don't like to tell people they're wrong when it comes to their art or whatever. I like when people have different view points and different takes on things. But this is something that the creators have addressed time and time again. It's hard not to comment on the whole "dream" and/or "purgatory" thing.

But, whatever. Take from the show what you will. I'm not Damon or Carlton or JJ. I'm just an asshole who loved the show and has internet access.

Sorry if anything I've posted reads as preachy or like I'm talking down to anyone. That really isn't what I'm trying to do. I just like discussing the show and I'm passionate about it.

BigRedChief
11-30-2012, 09:28 PM
Jack died then?
Posted via Mobile DeviceHe doesn;t know anymore than anyone else. He is just interpreting what he thinks the writers were thinking. Since the writers decided to not be clear, this is what we are left with.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:30 PM
He doesn;t know anymore than anyone else. He is just interpreting what he thinks the writers were thinking. Since the writers decided to not be clear, this is what we are left with.
It's pretty clear. Jack dies.

Red Brooklyn
11-30-2012, 09:40 PM
He doesn;t know anymore than anyone else. He is just interpreting what he thinks the writers were thinking. Since the writers decided to not be clear, this is what we are left with.

http://collider.com/lost-ending-damon-lindelof-explains/167981/

It's a long interview. But jump to the 6:25 mark.

From the horse's mouth.

Reaper16
12-01-2012, 10:02 AM
I thought the show made itself pretty damn clear in the finale that the flash sideways was a sort of purgatory -- a holding pattern in which souls of the dead, connected by some strong life experience, could remember what it was that they did on Earth in order to be able to accept it and move on to the afterlife. There wasn't any of this Jack dreaming business.

Red Brooklyn
12-01-2012, 10:08 AM
I thought the show made itself pretty damn clear in the finale that the flash sideways was a sort of purgatory -- a holding pattern in which souls of the dead, connected by some strong life experience, could remember what it was that they did on Earth in order to be able to accept it and move on to the afterlife. There wasn't any of this Jack dreaming business.
Exactly.

It's all explicitly stated in the finale.

Huffmeister
12-01-2012, 11:06 PM
I thought the show made itself pretty damn clear in the finale that the flash sideways was a sort of purgatory -- a holding pattern in which souls of the dead, connected by some strong life experience, could remember what it was that they did on Earth in order to be able to accept it and move on to the afterlife. There wasn't any of this Jack dreaming business.
Exactly. As Red Brooklyn pointed out earlier, "whatever happened, happened". The only part of the entire series that was a figment of anyone's imagination was the flash sideways of the last season, and that was a figment of everyone's imagination. It was the purgatory that they created together so that as they died at different times, they could help each other find their way to what lies beyond.

Jack did not die in the plane crash. He died from the wounds he received while fighting the Man In Black. What happened, happened.

DaneMcCloud
12-01-2012, 11:29 PM
Exactly. As Red Brooklyn pointed out earlier, "whatever happened, happened".

That made for an awesome cinematic experience.

:rolleyes:

Fuck Lindelof, Fuck Cuse, Fuck all of them.

This was a six year waste of fucking time.

You won't see another serialized SciFi drama for at least a decade. Viewer trust has been broken and its unlikely to be repaired for a long, long, long time.

Red Brooklyn
12-02-2012, 10:24 AM
You won't see another serialized SciFi drama for at least a decade. Viewer trust has been broken and its unlikely to be repaired for a long, long, long time.

Revolution is doing well.

L.A. Chieffan
12-02-2012, 10:52 AM
I wouldn't have had a problem with the open to interpretation part (I am one of the few people that liked the sopranos ending) however with this show they realized they backed themselves into a corner and I think they just fucked up.

WoodDraw
12-02-2012, 11:09 AM
The problem with Lost was that early on they created this amazing world, but there was never any planned story to tell. Lindelof kept promising everyone that it was all under control and they were following some grand plan. Until the last season...which was basically an "oops, we have to end this and have no fucking clue how to."

I saw an interview with Lindelof where he went on about ambiguity and its importance in story telling. And I do think ambiguity can work (see: inception). But it can't be used as a crutch to wipe away all the story telling you've done because you never had an answer in the first place.

DaneMcCloud
12-02-2012, 02:48 PM
Revolution is doing well.

No, it is not. It started out well but as of the last airing, it dropped to a 2.4 rating (about 7 million viewers). Alcatrazz, which was cancelled by Fox after its first season, had similar numbers (1.8 when cancelled).

It's also going on hiatus until March, which is never a good sign.

DaneMcCloud
12-02-2012, 02:48 PM
And I do think ambiguity can work (see: inception). But it can't be used as a crutch to wipe away all the story telling you've done because you never had an answer in the first place.

I've never found Inception to be ambiguous.

WoodDraw
12-02-2012, 03:52 PM
I've never found Inception to be ambiguous.

Hm, I'm not sure. TBH, it came to my head because of an interview he gave. That interview and Lindelof's have always stuck in my head as contrasts.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/11/pl_inception_nolan/all/

BigMeatballDave
12-02-2012, 05:45 PM
I've never found Inception to be ambiguous.

Agreed. I thought it was pretty cut and dried.

BigRedChief
12-02-2012, 06:58 PM
Revolution is doing well.but, they learned the lesson from Lost. They are not dragging out mystery's.

patteeu
12-02-2012, 07:01 PM
but, they learned the lesson from Lost. They are not dragging out mystery's.

It's a shame that that's the lesson from Lost. A better lesson would be that you can drag out mysteries as long as you tie them up in satisfying ways in the end. Of course, Lost may have damaged the ability of future shows to do that by failing to deliver and making it less likely that viewers will trust shows with complex, ongoing mysteries.

BigRedChief
12-02-2012, 09:50 PM
Of course, Lost may have damaged the ability of future shows to do that by failing to deliver and making it less likely that viewers will trust shows with complex, ongoing mysteries.I won't trust another show for longer than a year thats for sure.

Huffmeister
12-03-2012, 12:36 PM
That made for an awesome cinematic experience.

Yup, I'm glad you agree! :thumb:

Red Brooklyn
12-03-2012, 12:47 PM
No, it is not. It started out well but as of the last airing, it dropped to a 2.4 rating (about 7 million viewers). Alcatrazz, which was cancelled by Fox after its first season, had similar numbers (1.8 when cancelled).

It's also going on hiatus until March, which is never a good sign.

I don't know the show. I'm certainly not an expert. But I keep seeing articles all over the internet talking about how well the show is doing. Such as this article http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/revolution-ratings-hit-problems_b_2002248.html which calls the show a "ratings hit."

Again, I don't know. I'm not watching. But I was under the impression it was doing fine.

I'm not sure the hiatus is a sign of trouble. I thought it had always been a planned hiatus. My understanding is that it's to finish up post production and to create a little suspense, much like Lost used to do.

EDIT: I did just see that ratings for the most recent episode were way. So, you're right about the most recent numbers. It'll be interesting to see if it can rebound a bit once it comes back. I don't care either way. The show doesn't look that engaging to me. I figured I'd wait to see if it can make it out of S1 before I start trying to get into it.

DaneMcCloud
12-03-2012, 01:38 PM
Yup, I'm glad you agree! :thumb:

I hope you understand that I was joking