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OrlandoChief
10-11-2004, 10:18 PM
13th in the NFL. That's right, ahead of Carolina, Buffalo, Philly, Dallas and of course the Raiders. Kind of suprising but encouraging.....


http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2004/regular?sort_col_1=4

VonneMarie
10-11-2004, 10:26 PM
The D is so good they moved up a spot without playing a game! :clap:

Ari Chi3fs
10-11-2004, 10:28 PM
with a decent game on Sunday, we go into top ten in yards allowed.

However, Points allowed in a whole different story.

Bob Dole
10-11-2004, 10:30 PM
Michael Vick is like having another running back back there.

philfree
10-11-2004, 10:33 PM
Michael Vick is like having another running back back there.

Yeah but he's like not having a QB................. :rolleyes: We play the Jags this week not the Falcons. Or was that a joke?

PhilFree :arrow:

Bob Dole
10-11-2004, 10:35 PM
Yeah but he's like not having a QB................. :rolleyes: We play the Jags this week not the Falcons. Or was that a joke?

PhilFree :arrow:

Dennis Green is really going to get the best out of those Cardinals.

Ari Chi3fs
10-11-2004, 10:36 PM
The Intensity of Ray Lewis is... intense.

Miles
10-11-2004, 10:39 PM
Yeah but he's like not having a QB................. :rolleyes: We play the Jags this week not the Falcons. Or was that a joke?

PhilFree :arrow:

No we have to wait another weak to hear how explosive Vick it.

Skip Towne
10-11-2004, 10:40 PM
with a decent game on Sunday, we go into top ten in yards allowed.

However, Points allowed in a whole different story.
Points allowed is all that counts. Yards allowed means nothing.

Ari Chi3fs
10-11-2004, 10:42 PM
Skip, you are wise man.

philfree
10-11-2004, 10:43 PM
Dennis Green is really going to get the best out of those Cardinals.


And now they need a pass rush. :)

PhilFree :arrow:

Gamblor
10-11-2004, 10:54 PM
Points allowed is all that counts. Yards allowed means nothing.
Not when you're looking ahead to what's most likely for the future. A defense can give up a lot of yards but avoid giving up points thanks to particularly lucky turnovers, getting to work with a long field thanks to well-pinned punts, etc. Eventually, that kind of luck runs out, and a crappy defense that gives up a lot of yards gets exposed on the scoreboard.

As a matter of fact, the '03 Chiefs were a perfect example of this: Thanks mostly to lucky turnovers, especially in the first half of the year, they ended up 19th in points allowed per game, 29th in yards allowed per game. Which do you think is a better measure of how good they were? Point is, you have to look at points AND yards.

whoman69
10-11-2004, 10:59 PM
Dennis Green is really going to get the best out of those Cardinals.
Considering the crap he has to work with.


The defenses that turn my head are Washington and Miami. Their offenses are so bad they have to be leaving their D on the field quite a bit. That they are top 5 with that working against them is amazing.

ARROW2
10-11-2004, 11:03 PM
Again, for the 100th time....The D has given up 16 and 17 points the last two weeks. That's the bad thing about cumulative stats. It takes about 10 weeks for everything to level out some. Yet, we are climbing. I like how everyone is trying to spin the improvement. Look at Green Bay's D, they're horrible. We are NOT the worst D in the league anymore. People need to recognize and eat their words after reaching conclusions after two games.

Bob Dole
10-12-2004, 07:09 AM
Again, for the 100th time....The D has given up 16 and 17 points the last two weeks. That's the bad thing about cumulative stats. It takes about 10 weeks for everything to level out some. Yet, we are climbing. I like how everyone is trying to spin the improvement. Look at Green Bay's D, they're horrible. We are NOT the worst D in the league anymore. People need to recognize and eat their words after reaching conclusions after two games.

That Carolina front four is the best in the business.

Thig Lyfe
10-12-2004, 07:24 AM
Points allowed is all that counts. Yards allowed means nothing.

That same principle is always ignored when Priest Holmes comes up. His touchdowns are a far more important stat than rushing yards, and yet he's hardly recognized as an MVP candidte.

Crush
10-12-2004, 07:27 AM
Again, for the 100th time....The D has given up 16 and 17 points the last two weeks. That's the bad thing about cumulative stats. It takes about 10 weeks for everything to level out some. Yet, we are climbing. I like how everyone is trying to spin the improvement. Look at Green Bay's D, they're horrible. We are NOT the worst D in the league anymore. People need to recognize and eat their words after reaching conclusions after two games.




Stuart Scott: The Chiefs defense is so bad Peyton just threw another TD! Whoo! Booyah!

Jaworski: STFU!!!! :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

nmt1
10-12-2004, 07:31 AM
Last nights matchup was between the two toughest QB's in teh league. Boy those guys are tough. You could actually see the toughness.

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
10-12-2004, 07:40 AM
Lambeau Field has so much mystique; there is more mystique there than all other stadiums combined. They have the most passionate fans in the NFL, because the city owns the team, don't ya know.

Tribal Warfare
10-12-2004, 07:47 AM
Whoa it's like we're in 1991 but with lesser expectations
:bong:

Crush
10-12-2004, 07:47 AM
Ravens defense is so intense. You show me 20 better defenses.

Tribal Warfare
10-12-2004, 07:53 AM
Lambeau Field has so much mystique; there is more mystique there than all other stadiums combined. They have the most passionate fans in the NFL, because the city owns the team, don't ya know.


bullshit, I've been to Lambeau even walked on the field their, and their fans are so apathetic. I saw them play the bucs in '94 when Farve completed pass to Sharpe for 20 yards I was the only one standing up and cheering. On that same day KC lost to the Rams unfortunately

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
10-12-2004, 08:15 AM
bullshit, I've been to Lambeau even walked on the field their, and their fans are so apathetic. I saw them play the bucs in '94 when Farve completed pass to Sharpe for 20 yards I was the only one standing up and cheering. On that same day KC lost to the Rams unfortunately


*Sarcasm*

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
10-12-2004, 08:16 AM
Ravens defense is so intense. You show me 20 better defenses.

Or twenty offenses that would like to play them.


I can name one at least.

:p :thumb:

R&GHomer
10-12-2004, 08:19 AM
The Intensity of Ray Lewis is... intense.

And when Ray Lewis is intense he sure shows some intensity.

Crush
10-12-2004, 08:26 AM
Or twenty offenses that would like to play them.


I can name one at least.

:p :thumb:



LOOK AT THE PAPERS! DOUBLE TEAM! DOUBLE TEAM! DESPERATE MEN DO DESPERATE THINGS! LOOK AT THE PAPERS!

Skip Towne
10-12-2004, 08:28 AM
Not when you're looking ahead to what's most likely for the future. A defense can give up a lot of yards but avoid giving up points thanks to particularly lucky turnovers, getting to work with a long field thanks to well-pinned punts, etc. Eventually, that kind of luck runs out, and a crappy defense that gives up a lot of yards gets exposed on the scoreboard.

As a matter of fact, the '03 Chiefs were a perfect example of this: Thanks mostly to lucky turnovers, especially in the first half of the year, they ended up 19th in points allowed per game, 29th in yards allowed per game. Which do you think is a better measure of how good they were? Point is, you have to look at points AND yards.
It doesn't matter how many yards a D gives up. It's the points that beat you.

the Talking Can
10-12-2004, 08:35 AM
13th in the NFL. That's right, ahead of Carolina, Buffalo, Philly, Dallas and of course the Raiders. Kind of suprising but encouraging.....


http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2004/regular?sort_col_1=4

we played one less game though

Bob Dole
10-12-2004, 08:50 AM
we played one less game though

That New England defense is impenetrable.

Skip Towne
10-12-2004, 08:56 AM
That New England defense is impenetrable.
Yes but Lambeau has all the mystique.

nmt1
10-12-2004, 08:57 AM
we played one less game though

Bill Belichick is a genious and Ricky Williams.

Crush
10-12-2004, 08:57 AM
And when Ray Lewis is intense he sure shows some intensity.


That's pretty intense.

nmt1
10-12-2004, 08:59 AM
That's pretty intense.

Intensity mic'd up.

Gaz
10-12-2004, 08:59 AM
Last season, a 13th ranked Defense would have meant a Super Bowl.

Where are the Offense and Special Teams ranked?

xoxo~
Gaz
Careful what he wishes for.

Lzen
10-12-2004, 09:02 AM
Can,
Those stats reflect average yards given up per game. Not total yards from all games. ;)

Lzen
10-12-2004, 09:06 AM
It doesn't matter how many yards a D gives up. It's the points that beat you.

Yes, in the end all that matters is points. But I do think Gamblor brings up some interesting things to consider. Now, I don't agree that our defense last year got "lucky" turnovers. They forced most of those. But once the turnovers stopped coming, the defense ended up giving up a lot of points. I think the Chiefs defense is giving up fewer yards and that will eventually correlate directly to points. In other words, if they keep improving on defense like they have, they will be one of the better defenses in the league by season's end in points allowed as well as yardage allowed. ;)

the Talking Can
10-12-2004, 09:07 AM
Can,
Those stats reflect average yards given up per game. Not total yards from all games. ;)

ok, but we've still played one less game...that affects the numbers, or do i just need some coffee?

Gaz
10-12-2004, 09:20 AM
ok, but we've still played one less game...that affects the numbers, or do i just need some coffee?

Number of games is theoretically immaterial to the average, except for the fact that a larger sample size renders data that better maps reality.

An additional game can move the average, but the increment is dampened by the other data points. As the sample size increases, it is harder to move the average with a single game.

xoxo~
Gaz
Splitting hairs.

the Talking Can
10-12-2004, 09:26 AM
Number of games is theoretically immaterial to the average, except for the fact that a larger sample size renders data that better maps reality.

An additional game can move the average, but the increment is dampened by the other data points. As the sample size increases, it is harder to move the average with a single game.

xoxo~
Gaz
Splitting hairs.


hmmm...I do need coffee, but I get it, thanks....we're clearly becoming a better D than last year...now, if we could find another career for Holliday
:thumb:

Wile_E_Coyote
10-12-2004, 09:29 AM
Two games with a punter who should be taken out behind Arrowhead & shot in the head, does not show in the stats

bricks
10-12-2004, 10:09 AM
Yes, in the end all that matters is points. But I do think Gamblor brings up some interesting things to consider. Now, I don't agree that our defense last year got "lucky" turnovers. They forced most of those. But once the turnovers stopped coming, the defense ended up giving up a lot of points. I think the Chiefs defense is giving up fewer yards and that will eventually correlate directly to points. In other words, if they keep improving on defense like they have, they will be one of the better defenses in the league by season's end in points allowed as well as yardage allowed. ;)

Exactly :thumb: Good point. If the defense is giving up fewer yards allowed per game, then the points allowed will eventually take care of itself. My 2 cents, I think it's still too early to ride the defense, they've only played 4 games, and yes they are improving. It can all change though from week to week. I'm more concerned seeing how we play week to week than following up on statistics. i think the real test is how our defense plays against real good offenses, like Indy. I have a bad feeling about that game, but, if we can manage to give Peyton Manning a hard time, I will be impressed.

PastorMikH
10-12-2004, 10:18 AM
Who'd have thought that 4 games into the season our D would be ranked one spot behind our offense?


Moving up from 29th to 13th in 4 games. No, GR wasn't the problem.

yakkyakk
10-12-2004, 10:32 AM
Come on now playing one of the worst offenses in football helped the rating. Exclude Kyle Boller and the ranks near the bottom. They'll get tested by Jacksonville though with Leftwich and Fred Taylor. There's a lot of crappy offenses in the NFL right now that'll make a mediocre defense look good.

Garcia Bronco
10-12-2004, 10:38 AM
13th on 4 games LOL. What's your scoring defense?

Skip Towne
10-12-2004, 10:44 AM
Yes, in the end all that matters is points. But I do think Gamblor brings up some interesting things to consider. Now, I don't agree that our defense last year got "lucky" turnovers. They forced most of those. But once the turnovers stopped coming, the defense ended up giving up a lot of points. I think the Chiefs defense is giving up fewer yards and that will eventually correlate directly to points. In other words, if they keep improving on defense like they have, they will be one of the better defenses in the league by season's end in points allowed as well as yardage allowed. ;)
Team A can give up 500 yds and no points while Team B is giving up 50 yds and 28 points. They don't necessarily correlate. That's why I ignore yards. Points win or lose games, not yards.

Garcia Bronco
10-12-2004, 10:47 AM
Number of games is theoretically immaterial to the average, except for the fact that a larger sample size renders data that better maps reality.

An additional game can move the average, but the increment is dampened by the other data points. As the sample size increases, it is harder to move the average with a single game.

xoxo~
Gaz
Splitting hairs.

True...but two 400 yard games and you're back to 26th.

In fact, if you sort by games played and yards....you guys come in at 24th. Scoring...the KC defense is 31st. Which seems odd because I haven't seen KC get blown up this season. I think they've been in every game they've played.

OldTownChief
10-12-2004, 10:56 AM
When the Bus is held under 5 yards, he scores 3 TD's.

Lzen
10-12-2004, 10:58 AM
Just for fun, I looked up the AFC defense and how they rank in yards per game and points per game.

AFC teams PPG allowed per game ranking
1. Denver
2. New England
3. Baltimore
4. Jacksonville
5. Miami
6. Buffalo
7. NY Jets
8. Pittsburgh
9. Cleveland
10. Indianapolis
11. San Diego
12. Tennessee
13. Cincinnati
14. Oakland
15. Houston
16. Kansas City

AFC teams YPG allowed per game ranking
1. Denver
2. Miami
3. Pittsburgh
4. Baltimore
5. NY Jets
6. New England
7. Jacksonville
8. Kansas City
9. Oakland
10. Buffalo
11. Tennessee
12. Cincinnati
13. Cleveland
14. San Diego
15. Houston
16. Indianapolis

Rausch
10-12-2004, 11:02 AM
I know this will fall on deaf ears but DV, Peterson, and Gun all said this would be a slow but steady process of improvement. Injuries have slowed this process even further, but progress is being made.

This defense, by the end of the year, will be good. Not great, not fearsome, but good.

Lzen
10-12-2004, 11:03 AM
So, I would say that with the exception of a couple anamolies(KC and Indianapolois), the PPG and YPG do in fact relate to each other.

I suppose one might throw Oakland and Pittsburgh into the anamolies category, too. But KC and Indy are the obvious ones.

Lzen
10-12-2004, 11:04 AM
Team A can give up 500 yds and no points while Team B is giving up 50 yds and 28 points. They don't necessarily correlate. That's why I ignore yards. Points win or lose games, not yards.

When has something like this ever happened?

Rausch
10-12-2004, 11:08 AM
So, I would say that with the exception of a couple anamolies(KC and Indianapolois), the PPG and YPG do in fact relate to each other.

I suppose one might throw Oakland and Pittsburgh into the anamolies category, too. But KC and Indy are the obvious ones.

One of the reasons KC's pts allowed and Yards allowed don't look right is because one game 7 pts came from a Green INT and one game 7 pts came from special teams.

Our defense isn't responsible for either of those.

Skip Towne
10-12-2004, 11:13 AM
When the Bus is held under 5 yards, he scores 3 TD's.
My point exactly. :thumb:

Lzen
10-12-2004, 11:21 AM
One of the reasons KC's pts allowed and Yards allowed don't look right is because one game 7 pts came from a Green INT and one game 7 pts came from special teams.

Our defense isn't responsible for either of those.

Good point. But that would only move KC up one spot to 14th, ahead of Houston. We also don't know how many INTs were returned for TDs by other teams. Like the anamolous KC defense of last year that was ranked 19th in PPG but 29th(or something like that) in total yards. But this year its the opposite. IMO, that will start to even out as the season goes on and the PPG will go down a lot.

Lzen
10-12-2004, 11:24 AM
True...but two 400 yard games and you're back to 26th.

In fact, if you sort by games played and yards....you guys come in at 24th. Scoring...the KC defense is 31st. Which seems odd because I haven't seen KC get blown up this season. I think they've been in every game they've played.

I don't know where you're getting those numbers. Here, try NFL.com for the real stats. The stats I posted are points per game allowed and yards per game allowed. So, they do reflect accurately the actual defenses. Albeit, this is only a small sample since we are only one fourth the way through the season.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/AFC/DEF-SCORING/2004/regular

Lzen
10-12-2004, 11:32 AM
Come on now playing one of the worst offenses in football helped the rating. Exclude Kyle Boller and the ranks near the bottom. They'll get tested by Jacksonville though with Leftwich and Fred Taylor. There's a lot of crappy offenses in the NFL right now that'll make a mediocre defense look good.

The offenses KC has played so far rank:

Denver - PPG 14 - YPG 10
Carolina - PPG 23 - YPG 22
Houston - PPG 7 - YPG 7
Baltimore - PPG 18 - YPG 29

Not sure what to make of these stats but they are definitely intruiging.

Raiderhader
10-12-2004, 11:34 AM
we played one less game though


Carolina has already had their bye, as has Dallas. I think Philly has, but I'm not positive about that. I have no idea about Buffalo and Oakland.

Garcia Bronco
10-12-2004, 11:36 AM
I don't know where you're getting those numbers. Here, try NFL.com for the real stats. The stats I posted are points per game allowed and yards per game allowed. So, they do reflect accurately the actual defenses. Albeit, this is only a small sample since we are only one fourth the way through the season.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/AFC/DEF-SCORING/2004/regular

nfl.com is where I got those stats....

Lzen
10-12-2004, 11:37 AM
nfl.com is where I got those stats....

Then I'm not sure how you're figuring. I clicked on POINTS PER GAME ALLOWED and YARDS PER GAME ALLOWED.

Skip Towne
10-12-2004, 01:24 PM
The offenses KC has played so far rank:

Denver - PPG 14 - YPG 10
Carolina - PPG 23 - YPG 22
Houston - PPG 7 - YPG 7
Baltimore - PPG 18 - YPG 29

Not sure what to make of these stats but they are definitely intruiging.
I take this to mean that after the Houston game, we were 7th in both PPG and YPG. Then after The Ravens game it was 18th & 29th. Quite a wild swing. It's because yards are not a good indicator of points. It is simply unreliable and therefore useless.

Gaz
10-12-2004, 01:36 PM
With a sample size of [4], you can get some pretty wild swings. You should never give credence to “average” values. Unless the statistician has analyzed the standard deviation, the “average” is meaningless. And even the standard deviation is worthless without a substantially larger sample size.

xoxo~
Gaz
Illustrating why stats are meaningless.

ptlyon
10-12-2004, 01:38 PM
With a sample size of [4], you can get some pretty wild swings. You should never give credence to “average” values. Unless the statistician has analyzed the standard deviation, the “average” is meaningless. And even the standard deviation is worthless without a substantially larger sample size.


That's what she said

Tribal Warfare
10-12-2004, 03:44 PM
*Sarcasm*


Dead serious man it was alumni day, and on the same day met Ray Nitchke(sp?). My famliy moved to GB for six months during this period

FRCDFED
10-12-2004, 09:28 PM
We will make light work out of the Jags! And the Falcons are a bunch of puzzies!

(relieving testosterone buildup :D )

Bowser
10-12-2004, 09:39 PM
True...but two 400 yard games and you're back to 26th.

In fact, if you sort by games played and yards....you guys come in at 24th. Scoring...the KC defense is 31st. Which seems odd because I haven't seen KC get blown up this season. I think they've been in every game they've played.

Obviously, the Packers-Titans game has not been factored in yet!