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View Full Version : Kerry: "Privatization is an invitation to disaster"


Taco John
10-14-2004, 02:02 AM
THEN COME UP WITH A PLAN TO BRIDGE THE GAP SO YOUNG TAXPAYERS DON'T GET SCREWED!

I realize that Bush doesn't have a plan for this either... But Geez. Neither of these guys gives people in my generation any hope with regards to social security...

I suppose, at least Kerry is planning to get fiscally conservative with a pay as you go... That's at least SOME solace... But young voters deserve better than this uncertainty...

Lomax
10-14-2004, 02:43 AM
There is certainty built into the system. The certainty is that it will fail if it's allowed to continue under its present structure. Some degree of individual choice and accountability is our only hope, IMHO.

Will the system run a deficit in the transition? Yes, I think so and our wonderful political class will have to find a way to fund current promises while we make that transition. But the alternative is a pyramid scheme that is wholly unsustainable.

unlurking
10-14-2004, 09:32 AM
I agree with most of this, but Bush should have modified SS in his first term. He says he'll do it in his second, but I don't have any belief in it happening then either.

Sadly, if reform had occurred in the last four years, I would have been much more willing to overlook some of my concerns in other areas with Bush. I guess this is one of the more important concerns for me.

Here's to looking towards the 2008 election. :(

Amnorix
10-14-2004, 09:40 AM
Social Security is the 1,000 pound gorilla sitting at the dinner table eating with its feet. Nobody likes the situation, but everyone is too scared to do a damn thing about it.

tiptap
10-14-2004, 09:45 AM
There is certainty built into the system. The certainty is that it will fail if it's allowed to continue under its present structure. Some degree of individual choice and accountability is our only hope, IMHO.

Will the system run a deficit in the transition? Yes, I think so and our wonderful political class will have to find a way to fund current promises while we make that transition. But the alternative is a pyramid scheme that is wholly unsustainable.

It was interesting to note that Bush said Kerry voted to tax Social Security benefits. That would have been those people who had good pensions and retirement incomes beyond the Social Security. And I listened hard and even with the promise not to change the benefits of SS, Kerry left open the option of including them in taxes. In addition it is clear with the greater lifespan and longer chance to be productive it would be possible to raise the age requirement for SS. These would be prudent steps. It doesn't reward the boomer's bounty generation, but the boomers themselves overpaid into the system for the WW2 retires well over the monies WW2 crowd put into the system. And these steps I mention would discount the total outlay to the boomers as they enter retirement.

Donger
10-14-2004, 09:45 AM
Kerry: "Privatization is an invitation to disaster"

Translation: The American people are too stupid to plan for their retirement, but please vote for me (you idiots).

2bikemike
10-14-2004, 09:45 AM
Social Security is the 1,000 pound gorilla sitting at the dinner table eating with its feet. Nobody likes the situation, but everyone is too scared to do a damn thing about it.

Exactly, I don't believe too many pols are willing to do anything about it. And until the young voters out number the baby boomers I don't expect anything to happen.

Soupnazi
10-14-2004, 09:46 AM
Social Security is the 1,000 pound gorilla sitting at the dinner table eating with its feet. Nobody likes the situation, but everyone is too scared to do a damn thing about it.

true dat

RINGLEADER
10-14-2004, 10:11 AM
THEN COME UP WITH A PLAN TO BRIDGE THE GAP SO YOUNG TAXPAYERS DON'T GET SCREWED!

I realize that Bush doesn't have a plan for this either... But Geez. Neither of these guys gives people in my generation any hope with regards to social security...

I suppose, at least Kerry is planning to get fiscally conservative with a pay as you go... That's at least SOME solace... But young voters deserve better than this uncertainty...


Bush does have a plan, but he was too much of a chickenshit to say it last night (although he did get closer than I've ever seen him to explaining what he'd do - which is to borrow a trillion dollars of debt to prop up the existing social security recipients while the younger payees take some of the money out of the system to fund their individual accounts).

Look to Galveston, Texas to see how a private system does work. They've had it for decades and they pull out more than twice the money that regular recipients pull out and the system is self-sufficient.

Kerry's position on this and his campaign's insistence on scaring everyone about it is really something to get outraged about. If Kerry is elected we all KNOW he'll remain with the status quo (and his comment about the tax cut for the rich paying for the social security solvency is just stupid - unless you really believe the money that has been pushing the economy along wouldn't have been spent on other government programs...but that's a different rant). If Bush is elected I'd feel as confident as I've ever felt that the government would do something to fix the social security shell game.

RINGLEADER
10-14-2004, 10:13 AM
Social Security is the 1,000 pound gorilla sitting at the dinner table eating with its feet. Nobody likes the situation, but everyone is too scared to do a damn thing about it.


Remember when congress raised the taxes and reduced the benefits in (I think) 1993? I was living in Chicago at the time and I remember Dan Rostenkowski's limo being surrounded by grannies hitting it with cains and laying on his hood.

tiptap
10-14-2004, 10:57 AM
Bush does have a plan, but he was too much of a chickenshit to say it last night (although he did get closer than I've ever seen him to explaining what he'd do - which is to borrow a trillion dollars of debt to prop up the existing social security recipients while the younger payees take some of the money out of the system to fund their individual accounts).

Look to Galveston, Texas to see how a private system does work. They've had it for decades and they pull out more than twice the money that regular recipients pull out and the system is self-sufficient.

Kerry's position on this and his campaign's insistence on scaring everyone about it is really something to get outraged about. If Kerry is elected we all KNOW he'll remain with the status quo (and his comment about the tax cut for the rich paying for the social security solvency is just stupid - unless you really believe the money that has been pushing the economy along wouldn't have been spent on other government programs...but that's a different rant). If Bush is elected I'd feel as confident as I've ever felt that the government would do something to fix the social security shell game.

I have no doubt that Galveston has been successful in private retirement system. In a market that has been bullish up until 2000. And with good advice in getting out of the market the Galveston crowd could still show well. Here is the problem for me, if EVERYONE goes into the market, it inflates the quote vs value for the investment. It is too easy when the cash is going in to oversaturate the market to be able to make good choices in utilizing that money. I am not saying one can't, I am saying it doesn't insure that value will be there when it comes time to retire. It will still depends upon producing the supply at a good value at the time of decreasing productivity. The existing work force still has to produce those goods at that time for consumption of those retirees.

You have to be careful in assuming the market action in the present situation will be duplicated with a change that could be so dramatic.

Iowanian
10-14-2004, 11:06 AM
I guess I see it this way.

I'm already assuming that the money I'm paying into SS is to help my parents and grandparents. I'm assuming that when its my time in the rocking chair(on my bass boat)....I won't have this money to depend on.

I'm no financial guru of any sort, but I have an existing retirement plan with my current employer that would be decent if I were to stay. I invested into Mutual funds in the late 90's and got slammed. I still have those accounts, but haven't added to them..............I actually brought the documents to work today, and am going to transfer the funds, take advantage of the pre-tax deduction option for savings, and putting it into another retirement fund...maybe a "grant" or Benjamin a month....

I'm considering investing my limited funds now into a rental property or two and some land............try to make some deals, that will pay for themselves now, and bring in money/value later in life.

I'm basically doing exactly what Bush is proposing, and have been for at least 5 years.

I'm far from "wealthy"....and I do enjoy my current Tax cuts.

Taco John
10-14-2004, 11:11 AM
Bush does have a plan, but he was too much of a chickenshit to say it last night (although he did get closer than I've ever seen him to explaining what he'd do - which is to borrow a trillion dollars of debt to prop up the existing social security recipients while the younger payees take some of the money out of the system to fund their individual accounts).


I just don't understand Bush's debt mentality. The thing that Kerry talked about last night that really resonates with Libertarians is "Pay as you go." There's plenty he did to make us cring. But "Pay as you go" is music to my ears.

Logical
10-14-2004, 11:14 AM
I just don't understand Bush's debt mentality. The thing that Kerry talked about last night that really resonates with Libertarians is "Pay as you go." There's plenty he did to make us cring. But "Pay as you go" is music to my ears.
You do realize that at the rate they payout SS funds that by the time I reach retireement age in 2012 the average American will have to pay 50% of their income to pay as you go with all the baby boomers in the retirement pool.

Taco John
10-14-2004, 11:16 AM
I guess I see it this way.

I'm already assuming that the money I'm paying into SS is to help my parents and grandparents. I'm assuming that when its my time in the rocking chair(on my bass boat)....I won't have this money to depend on.

I'm no financial guru of any sort, but I have an existing retirement plan with my current employer that would be decent if I were to stay. I invested into Mutual funds in the late 90's and got slammed. I still have those accounts, but haven't added to them..............I actually brought the documents to work today, and am going to transfer the funds, take advantage of the pre-tax deduction option for savings, and putting it into another retirement fund...maybe a "grant" or Benjamin a month....

I'm considering investing my limited funds now into a rental property or two and some land............try to make some deals, that will pay for themselves now, and bring in money/value later in life.

I'm basically doing exactly what Bush is proposing, and have been for at least 5 years.

I'm far from "wealthy"....and I do enjoy my current Tax cuts.



It's a good way to do it... and pretty similar to the course of action that I'm taking. But I'm not nearly as permissive with my money as you as to just accept and dismiss the fact that my portion of social security is going to someone who isn't me.

I should get some measure of control... some reasonable assurance that the money I am putting in will benefit me down the road.

Taco John
10-14-2004, 11:20 AM
You do realize that at the rate they payout SS funds that by the time I reach retireement age in 2012 the average American will have to pay 50% of their income to pay as you go with all the baby boomers in the retirement pool.


Yes, I realize that. but further enriching China and Japan by taking a trillion dollar loan to "fix" it isn't the answer, IMO.

Logical
10-14-2004, 11:25 AM
Yes, I realize that. but further enriching China and Japan by taking a trillion dollar loan to "fix" it isn't the answer, IMO.

Unless the proposal is just to someday end it, some sort of sacrifice is going to be required to eventually fix it. I just do not believe pay as you go will ever fix it.

Brock
10-14-2004, 11:32 AM
Yes, I realize that.

Apparently you don't, or you would be appropriately appalled at the prospect.

redbrian
10-14-2004, 11:36 AM
The reason Kerry and like minded folks do not want to see the system privatized is that it would remove money being spent by the federal government. Remember the whole thing about “the lock box”, well that’s as bogus as a $3 bill. All excess money (not paid out) is put into T-bills. T-bills pay the lowest rate out there and the American people have to pay the interest on these bills, in essence paying the social security tax twice.

The pay as you go scheme is nothing more than a ponsie (sp?) scheme which would be deemed illegal if run by a private industry.

A balanced portfolio based on a determined index would be the correct place to place the excess Social Security money collected. Not only would it build wealth for the Social Security system but it also would provide a means of pumping funds into the economy

Cochise
10-14-2004, 11:40 AM
This is the new version of Al Gore's "risky scheme" line I guess

Iowanian
10-14-2004, 11:52 AM
I'm not "permissive"...I just realize HOW many baby boomers are going to be on SS soon..........and I realize how many loafing stoners my age aren't working and paying(no offense to working loafing stoners of coarse)........

I'd like to get that money back when I'm old, but I just don't expect the system to be working that way in 40 years............Unless I'm killed, and the money would go to my bride to help support any chil'rens until they're 18. I've paid SS every year since I was 14, so I've earned that safety net for them. I just feel better about it, if I assume that MY SS money is going to people I know, now.

I'd like to count on it being available, but I'm going to be the ANT instead of the Grasshopper if I can.............I've paid off my Student Loans( in 2 months I guess....4 years early) and I plan on taking that money and reducing debt, building some savings, and adding to retirement fundage.

I don't plan on ever being wealthy, but one doesn't have to be, to earn their own way and save a little money, if they are financially responsible.

Cochise
10-14-2004, 11:54 AM
I would gladly write off every penny I've ever given to social security and any claim I would ever have to benefits, if they would just stop taking it now.

Taco John
10-14-2004, 12:00 PM
Unless the proposal is just to someday end it, some sort of sacrifice is going to be required to eventually fix it. I just do not believe pay as you go will ever fix it.


I'm not proposing it will... Pay as you go is sound fiscal policy for government (or private citizens) in general. But in my estimation, neither guy has a viable plan for SS right now.

Iowanian
10-14-2004, 12:04 PM
In truth...........There ARE alot of Americans, who aren't responsible enough to plan for themselves..............would blow the SS money aloted them, and be begging a handout down the road anyway.

jcl-kcfan2
10-14-2004, 12:15 PM
I have no doubt that Galveston has been successful in private retirement system. In a market that has been bullish up until 2000. And with good advice in getting out of the market the Galveston crowd could still show well. Here is the problem for me, if EVERYONE goes into the market, it inflates the quote vs value for the investment. It is too easy when the cash is going in to oversaturate the market to be able to make good choices in utilizing that money. I am not saying one can't, I am saying it doesn't insure that value will be there when it comes time to retire. It will still depends upon producing the supply at a good value at the time of decreasing productivity. The existing work force still has to produce those goods at that time for consumption of those retirees.

You have to be careful in assuming the market action in the present situation will be duplicated with a change that could be so dramatic.

At least our congressmen and senators aren't spending it.
That would account for a whole heckuvalot of money.

6 Iron
10-14-2004, 12:22 PM
I'd like to get that money back when I'm old, but I just don't expect the system to be working that way in 40 years.............

I'd like to count on it being available, but I'm going to be the ANT instead of the Grasshopper if I can.............I've paid off my Student Loans( in 2 months I guess....4 years early) and I plan on taking that money and reducing debt, building some savings, and adding to retirement fundage.

I don't plan on ever being wealthy, but one doesn't have to be, to earn their own way and save a little money, if they are financially responsible.

I agree. Anybody under the age of 50 that is counting on SS for a significant portion of their retirement is doing themselves a grave disservice.