PDA

View Full Version : Why don't the Chiefs ever run trick plays?


dirk digler
10-15-2004, 09:41 AM
If I remember correctly they have ran 1 maybe 2 since DV has been here. Is it because DV is just to old school and plays by the book?

I know that DV is having a problem with 4 and short so why not try a fake punt which are usually successful.

I think sometime during the season they should run a hook & ladder with Dante. I remember the Rams ran that play a couple of times with Hakim that scored easy TD's.

Saulbadguy
10-15-2004, 09:45 AM
Its a gamble.

My question is...Why aren't we running SCREENS this year..?!

Skip Towne
10-15-2004, 09:45 AM
I like the triple reverse pass to a tackle eligible.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 09:47 AM
Its a gamble.

My question is...Why aren't we running SCREENS this year..?!


True but sometimes you need to gamble and our O sometimes needs a jump start.

I don't think a fake punt on 4th and 1 or 4th and 2 is much of a gamble. Especially when Baker was punting and netting like 29 yds a punt.

CosmicPal
10-15-2004, 09:54 AM
I haven't seen the Statue of Liberty play in years. Ya know? Man, some of these teams need to bring it back. Have Trent drop back to pass, and before he launches it- Dante grabs it out of his hands and runs for daylight.

The defenses would be baffled.

Molitoth
10-15-2004, 09:56 AM
We don't want to stoop to baltimores level and still pull off a loss.

Saulbadguy
10-15-2004, 09:58 AM
The Annexation of Puerto Rico!

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 09:58 AM
I haven't seen the Statue of Liberty play in years. Ya know? Man, some of these teams need to bring it back. Have Trent drop back to pass, and before he launches it- Dante grabs it out of his hands and runs for daylight.

The defenses would be baffled.

:thumb:

Hell yeah that is what I'm talkin about. I think the players would love to run plays like this especially Dante.

Cormac
10-15-2004, 09:59 AM
I disagree with our need to run trick plays. We have the best O in the league the last 2 years running. What we need to do is execute better. Having Kennison back should give us a huge lift, IMO. I think his contribution to our offense is really underrated by us fans. He's not a great #1 WR, but he's still a big part of our O. Having him back will hopefully open up some other aspects of our regular offense like screens for example.

Offenses that can't get anything going (like Baltimore's) are the ones that need trick plays. If we failed on a fake punt, I bet we'd hear people say "there goes Al Saunders getting too 'cute' again", or, "we should just run Priest on 4th and short. We were killing [insert team] all day up the middle" etc.

I'm not against the occasional trick play, but I we don't run them more often simply because we have the league's highest scoring offense.

JMHO.

Crush
10-15-2004, 10:00 AM
I would settle for a simple flea-flicker.

Molitoth
10-15-2004, 10:00 AM
The Annexation of Puerto Rico!


Hell ya, we need that little nerd, bye bye AL.

Frankie
10-15-2004, 10:00 AM
Trick plays are generally for the less talented teams who try to gain an otherwise lacking edge. That said, I think they are a colorful and entertaining part of the game and we should show a few to even the lesser teams for 3 reasons:

1- The said entertainment value (the weakest of the reasons, admittedly)

2- It helps to create the "killer Instinct" that the Chiefs don't often demonstrate.

3- More worthy oponents, watching our game films, would have more things to worry about and prepare for. The possibility that we might pull one out at any given time could translate into a decisive edge on the field.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 10:06 AM
I disagree with our need to run trick plays. We have the best O in the league the last 2 years running. What we need to do is execute better. Having Kennison back should give us a huge lift, IMO. I think his contribution to our offense is really underrated by us fans. He's not a great #1 WR, but he's still a big part of our O. Having him back will hopefully open up some other aspects of our regular offense like screens for example.

Offenses that can't get anything going (like Baltimore's) are the ones that need trick plays. If we failed on a fake punt, I bet we'd hear people say "there goes Al Saunders getting too 'cute' again", or, "we should just run Priest on 4th and short. We were killing [insert team] all day up the middle" etc.

I'm not against the occasional trick play, but I we don't run them more often simply because we have the league's highest scoring offense.

JMHO.


I am saying run them just to run them IMO Defenses would not be expecting this from us since we never run them.

Right now we are 12th in the league in Total Offense and Scoring. So I hope Eddie can help us jumpstart this offense but heck an occasional trick play is fun.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 10:08 AM
Trick plays are generally for the less talented teams who try to gain an otherwise lacking edge. That said, I think they are a colorful and entertaining part of the game and we should show a few to even the lesser teams for 3 reasons:

1- The said entertainment value (the weakest of the reasons, admittedly)

2- It helps to create the "killer Instinct" that the Chiefs don't often demonstrate.

3- More worthy oponents, watching our game films, would have more things to worry about and prepare for. The possibility that we might pull one out at any given time could translate into a decisive edge on the field.


:thumb: I agree especially with #3. It keeps Defenses honest.

John_Wayne
10-15-2004, 10:09 AM
FLEA FLICKER!!

I called for it all last season and I don't recall us running it. Also, I'd like to see some sort of reverse or throw back play on a KO.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 10:10 AM
Trick plays are nice and all, but there is a lot that can go wrong.

With that being said, I think a flea-flicker every now and then (like, twice a year), would be an excellent call.

As far as a fake punt, again, too much can go wrong. Besides, if Cheek injured himself in practice, I can't imagine they'd want him to try to either throw or run. Snapping it to the up-back may not be horrible, but only in the right situation: 4th and 2 or less and on the opponents 40.

MM
~~:arrow:

ptlyon
10-15-2004, 10:11 AM
"Jimmy you're the bottle cap, Bobby, you're the twig"

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 10:16 AM
Trick plays are nice and all, but there is a lot that can go wrong.

With that being said, I think a flea-flicker every now and then (like, twice a year), would be an excellent call.

As far as a fake punt, again, too much can go wrong. Besides, if Cheek injured himself in practice, I can't imagine they'd want him to try to either throw or run. Snapping it to the up-back may not be horrible, but only in the right situation: 4th and 2 or less and on the opponents 40.

MM
~~:arrow:

I think a fake punt is almost a guaranteed first down on 4 and 2 or less. Buffalo ran one a few weeks back if I remember correctly and they gained like 20-30 yds on it.

I think it would be the perfect call because DV lately has been thinking to much about 4 and short and it is effecting his decision making. Let Gansz Jr make that call.

KC Jones
10-15-2004, 10:18 AM
It depends how you want to define trick plays.

To some extent play action passes, reverses, screens, draws, naked bootlegs, and even counter traps are all trick plays. Your intent is to convince the defense you're doing something different than what you're actually trying to do.

Skip Towne
10-15-2004, 10:19 AM
Trick plays are nice and all, but there is a lot that can go wrong.

With that being said, I think a flea-flicker every now and then (like, twice a year), would be an excellent call.

As far as a fake punt, again, too much can go wrong. Besides, if Cheek injured himself in practice, I can't imagine they'd want him to try to either throw or run. Snapping it to the up-back may not be horrible, but only in the right situation: 4th and 2 or less and on the opponents 40.

MM
~~:arrow:
I read somewhere that Cheek got something like 6 starts at QB in college and did pretty well. Something to think about. A punter who can throw the ball.

bricks
10-15-2004, 10:21 AM
We don't want to stoop to baltimores level and still pull off a loss.

:rolleyes: Just cause ya run a trick play, doesn't mean you're gonna lose dude.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 10:21 AM
I think a fake punt is almost a guaranteed first down on 4 and 2 or less. Buffalo ran one a few weeks back if I remember correctly and they gained like 20-30 yds on it.

I think it would be the perfect call because DV lately has been thinking to much about 4 and short and it is effecting his decision making. Let Gansz Jr make that call.

That depends on the play call ...

If it's a fake where the punter has to run on 4th and 2, then he's actually running 10 yards. Not sure Cheek is that athletic.

If it's a fake where the punter has to throw, again, he's not only got to throw it 10+ yards, someone has to get open (and having Bo out hurts, since he'd be the most reliable receiver on STs).

If it's a fake where the up-back gets a direct snap, then maybe.

The point is, some things have better odds, but nothing is guaranteed.

MM
~~:arrow:

Mark M
10-15-2004, 10:23 AM
I read somewhere that Cheek got something like 6 starts at QB in college and did pretty well. Something to think about. A punter who can throw the ball.

Oh ... well then that changes my previous post.

Wouldn't mind seeing them try it in a blowout, but in a close game I'd still rather them play smart, rather than tricky. (Cue RUN-DMC ... )

MM
~~:D

bricks
10-15-2004, 10:26 AM
I've always enjoyed watching the reverse run to Dante. Well, I don't know if it's really a trick play, but, most of the time it gets the defenses off-balance. I don't know guys, do you think that could be considered a trick play? :hmmm:

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 10:39 AM
I've always enjoyed watching the reverse run to Dante. Well, I don't know if it's really a trick play, but, most of the time it gets the defenses off-balance. I don't know guys, do you think that could be considered a trick play? :hmmm:


Not really reverses are pretty standard play call anymore. I think most teams run one every game it seems like.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 10:42 AM
That depends on the play call ...

If it's a fake where the punter has to run on 4th and 2, then he's actually running 10 yards. Not sure Cheek is that athletic.

If it's a fake where the punter has to throw, again, he's not only got to throw it 10+ yards, someone has to get open (and having Bo out hurts, since he'd be the most reliable receiver on STs).

If it's a fake where the up-back gets a direct snap, then maybe.

The point is, some things have better odds, but nothing is guaranteed.

MM
~~:arrow:


I agree but I think that because we never have run it teams wouldn't be expecting it. IMO we are way to conservative on ST's.

bricks
10-15-2004, 10:53 AM
I've seen this trick play often in the NFL, and it works more often than not. It's where the RB get a pitch from the QB, then the RB hands it off to the WR who is running a reverse pattern. So the WR has the ball, the defenses THINK, he is going to run a reverse play, instead the WR elects to throw the ball downfield, and boom there you have it. He finds a wide open WR running a streak route for a TD!

Frankie
10-15-2004, 10:56 AM
Trick plays are nice and all, but there is a lot that can go wrong.

With that being said, I think a flea-flicker every now and then (like, twice a year), would be an excellent call.

As far as a fake punt, again, too much can go wrong. Besides, if Cheek injured himself in practice, I can't imagine they'd want him to try to either throw or run. Snapping it to the up-back may not be horrible, but only in the right situation: 4th and 2 or less and on the opponents 40.

MM
~~:arrow:

Good post. But there are trick plays and there are trick plays. I think we need to stay the hell away from the riskier ones. Some though, seem to have decidedly more upside than downside. Like your example of flea-flicker. Those are the ones we should have in our book.

Braincase
10-15-2004, 10:59 AM
I once saw Lin Elliott fake three field goals in a playoff game.

Frankie
10-15-2004, 10:59 AM
I read somewhere that Cheek got something like 6 starts at QB in college and did pretty well. Something to think about. A punter who can throw the ball.
If that's true, should the Chiefs give him some off-season reps at QB to see if he could be QB3 on the roster next year? :hmmm:

Frankie
10-15-2004, 11:01 AM
I once saw Lin Elliott fake three field goals in a playoff game.
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Molitoth
10-15-2004, 11:01 AM
Just cause ya run a trick play, doesn't mean you're gonna lose dude.


Just saying that flea flickers are usually considered "cheap" in a lot of peoples eyes. It was funny that Baltimore used it on us and still lost the game. Embarrasing for them imo. I don't think the chiefs need to mess with it, although im sure I wouldn't bitch if we used it, I know I wouldn't talk sh1t.

John_Wayne
10-15-2004, 11:02 AM
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL Honestly, that's NOT funny. :banghead: :cuss: :mad:

Frankie
10-15-2004, 11:06 AM
Honestly, that's NOT funny. :banghead: :cuss: :mad:

Ya mean I repped the guy for nothing?!:shrug:
But honestly, if you remember that crucial playoff game, it was funny.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 11:09 AM
I once saw Lin Elliott fake three field goals in a playoff game.


ROFL Thanks for bringing that up now I am going to have nightmares.

Skip Towne
10-15-2004, 11:13 AM
Is the fumblerooski still legal? Best trick play I've seen.

bricks
10-15-2004, 11:20 AM
Is the fumblerooski still legal? Best trick play I've seen.

What's that? Never seen it, or heard of it?

Skip Towne
10-15-2004, 11:32 AM
What's that? Never seen it, or heard of it?
It's also called the Bumerooskie after Bum Phillips. Instead of taking the snap the QB lets the ball hit his hands and fall at the center's feet. A guard picks it up and rumbles around the end. Works every time.

David.
10-15-2004, 11:34 AM
It's also called the Bumerooskie after Bum Phillips. Instead of taking the snap the QB lets the ball hit his hands and fall at the center's feet. A guard picks it up and rumbles around the end. Works every time*.

*never

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 11:43 AM
It's also called the Bumerooskie after Bum Phillips. Instead of taking the snap the QB lets the ball hit his hands and fall at the center's feet. A guard picks it up and rumbles around the end. Works every time.


That would be a very good play for Waters. He is very athletic for a lineman.

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 11:47 AM
I read somewhere that Cheek got something like 6 starts at QB in college and did pretty well. Something to think about. A punter who can throw the ball.
You still need a reciever who can catch the ball.....

EDIT--We dont run trick plays because we are never in a situation in which they would be useful enough to burn.

Look:
At this point we can run a trick play and get away with it because we never do them.
But:
We are always either getting our arse kicked or kicking the crap out of someone, so why waste that one trick play?

Of course I am against the use of trick plays because when they are botched, its usually a pretty big one.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 11:57 AM
EDIT--We dont run trick plays because we are never in a situation in which they would be useful enough to burn.



I disagree. We have had many 4 and short situations this year which you could use a trick play like a fake punt for example.

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 12:03 PM
I disagree. We have had many 4 and short situations this year which you could use a trick play like a fake punt for example.
Sorry, I should have clarified. I wasnt refering to fake punts and the like. But I will say the fake punt definitely has a chance of failure and that definitely means a lot of field position (unless Baker is your punter.)

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 12:06 PM
Sorry, I should have clarified. I wasnt refering to fake punts and the like. But I will say the fake punt definitely has a chance of failure and that definitely means a lot of field position (unless Baker is your punter.)

I agree that it is a risk but if you are on your own 40 yd line you should think about trying it in a 4th and short situation.

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 12:09 PM
I agree that it is a risk but if you are on your own 40 yd line you should think about trying it in a 4th and short situation.
It would also depend on the effectiveness of your running game. If you are running the ball well, Id rather you line up and power for the first down.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 12:11 PM
It would also depend on the effectiveness of your running game. If you are running the ball well, Id rather you line up and power for the first down.

I agree especially with Priest back there but I know if we were on our own 40 early in the game DV would punt it instead of going for it and I think that would be a great time to try a fake punt.

Dartgod
10-15-2004, 12:17 PM
He finds a wide open WR running a streak route for a TD!
Hehe. You used "wide open" and "WR" in the same sentence when talking about the Chiefs.

Dumbass...

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 12:18 PM
I agree especially with Priest back there but I know if we were on our own 40 early in the game DV would punt it instead of going for it and I think that would be a great time to try a fake punt.
Of course, I am an old west coast kinda guy... Wish we'd run it more often. Like we did against the Ravens. Dominate the play clock, keep the defense tired.

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 12:21 PM
Of course, I am an old west coast kinda guy... Wish we'd run it more often. Like we did against the Ravens. Dominate the play clock, keep the defense tired.

You miss Marty don't you?

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 12:23 PM
You miss Marty don't you?
Ummmm.... No. Marty is a choke artist and Im not THAT west coast. (But just think what he could have done with a priest holmes.... If we only had a DEFENSE.)

Mark M
10-15-2004, 12:24 PM
I agree that it is a risk but if you are on your own 40 yd line you should think about trying it in a 4th and short situation.

Running a fake on KC's OWN 40 is just plain stupid.

Doing it on the other team's 40 is not a horrible idea.

MM
~~:p

dirk digler
10-15-2004, 12:25 PM
Ummmm.... No. Marty is a choke artist and Im not THAT west coast. (But just think what he could have done with a priest holmes.... If we only had a DEFENSE.)


The D is coming around and I think what you see in San Diego now is what Marty would have done here with Priest.

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 12:30 PM
The D is coming around and I think what you see in San Diego now is what Marty would have done here with Priest.
Yeah probably... It's just hard to pick your weapons when you have a vast arsenal.

bricks
10-15-2004, 12:56 PM
Hehe. You used "wide open" and "WR" in the same sentence when talking about the Chiefs.

Dumbass...

Well, there you have it. me trying to explain a trick play with a tricky sentence.
;)