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John_Wayne
10-15-2004, 10:07 AM
Does anyone know where to find the latest polls on this issue? Does it look like it will pass or fail or is it a close race?

Did anyone get in the mail your Think BIG campaign brochure? There were some obscure pictures of what Arrowhead and Kauffman stadium may look like after the improvements. You couldn't really make out much detail, but it did look really nice.

I'm going to vote for it to pass unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 10:13 AM
Right now it seems like a very, VERY close race.

The issue will be JoCo KS voters. They don't want to pay for stadium improvements or an arts center in Missouri.

They have no problems using them or enjoying them, just paying for them. And I can see their point.

MM
~~:)

Brock
10-15-2004, 10:33 AM
Right now it seems like a very, VERY close race.

The issue will be JoCo KS voters. They don't want to pay for stadium improvements or an arts center in Missouri.

They have no problems using them or enjoying them, just paying for them. And I can see their point.

MM
~~:)

I'm all in favor of paying for Arrowhead. But Missouri ain't kicking in a dime for the Kansas Speedway, except for sales tax when they flock over here to go to races.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 10:40 AM
I'm all in favor of paying for Arrowhead. But Missouri ain't kicking in a dime for the Kansas Speedway, except for sales tax when they flock over here to go to races.

That is the issue with a lot of KS folks, and I can completely understand their point.

IMHO, the track, stadiums, a better downtown and increased fine arts helps everyone, no matter which side of State Line they are on ... I'm just not sure enough people will agree.

MM
~~:shrug:

Phobia
10-15-2004, 10:40 AM
I'm voting no because I think it's a horrible proprosal. It's poorly done throughout.

I'm all for upgrading Arrowhead and Kauffman, but they have to come at us with a better proposal than this one. Absolutley pathetic.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 10:49 AM
I'm voting no because I think it's a horrible proprosal. It's poorly done throughout.

I'm all for upgrading Arrowhead and Kauffman, but they have to come at us with a better proposal than this one. Absolutley pathetic.

And that, IMHO, the big problem with this proposal:

They've wrapped up the arts (something that this city sorely needs) with the stadiums. They've got a line-by-line budget for the K and it sounds great. But the Chiefs have totally screwed the pooch by being vague and including a $20 million slush fund. Not sure I like that idea.

I may still vote for it, but each day, as more info comes out, I'm thinking maybe not. The arts are the only reason I'm leaning yes.

MM
~~:hmmm:

KC Jones
10-15-2004, 11:10 AM
And that, IMHO, the big problem with this proposal:

They've wrapped up the arts (something that this city sorely needs) with the stadiums. They've got a line-by-line budget for the K and it sounds great. But the Chiefs have totally screwed the pooch by being vague and including a $20 million slush fund. Not sure I like that idea.

I may still vote for it, but each day, as more info comes out, I'm thinking maybe not. The arts are the only reason I'm leaning yes.

MM
~~:hmmm:

I'm in this exact same boat and leaning no. Someone thought that the more things the tacked on the more 'popular' this would be. They also seemed to think the Chiefs popularity would help carry an arts tax.

:shake:

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 11:12 AM
I'm voting no because both stadium owners have ample funds and corporate contacts to fund their own improvements or underwrite new stadiums...

why should the freakin taxpayers have to foot the bill.

Brock
10-15-2004, 11:13 AM
I'm voting no because both stadium owners have ample funds and corporate contacts to fund their own improvements or underwrite new stadiums...

why should the freakin taxpayers have to foot the bill.

And besides, Rich Gannon doesn't play here anymore.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 11:16 AM
And besides, Rich Gannon doesn't play here anymore.

Don't forget that they're both rich white guys ...

MM
~~;)

Demonpenz
10-15-2004, 11:55 AM
why are we pushing the arts? Is piazza a free agent?

cookster50
10-15-2004, 12:09 PM
I'm voting no because I don't want a never ending sales tax. It has no ending date. I'd give it some thought if it did.

John_Wayne
10-15-2004, 01:05 PM
I'm voting no because both stadium owners have ample funds and corporate contacts to fund their own improvements or underwrite new stadiums...

why should the freakin taxpayers have to foot the bill. The owners don't own the stadiums. They lease the staiums from the city / county. The tax payers own the stadiums, so the tax payers need to fix, improve, ignore or sell the complex. If the city / county were to sell the stadiums to the owners, then I could understand your point. I think alot of people assume that Lamar owns Arrowhead. He doesn't.

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 01:15 PM
I'm all in favor of paying for Arrowhead. But Missouri ain't kicking in a dime for the Kansas Speedway, except for sales tax when they flock over here to go to races.
yep...


why is it that everyone keeps wanting kansas to pony up and help Mo ... but it's never the other way around.

besides... i dont trust missery not to screw it up.


i dont like the idea of just "patching" the current stadiums instead of building new ones either.



IMO i would rather approve twice the tax and just build brand new stadiums for the Royals and Chiefs over by the racetrack and make some kind of super sports complex. Build hotels etc around there too.

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:21 PM
Looks like there are some people who silently want a downtown ballpark.

Downtown boosters silent on bistate plan

By KEVIN MURPHY

The Kansas City Star

The bistate tax plan to remodel Kauffman and Arrowhead stadiums is being greeted with silence by many boosters of downtown development.

They would much rather see the Royals play in a new stadium downtown. But they are not trying to defeat the Nov. 2 ballot measure that would keep the Royals eight miles from downtown.

“There is reluctance on the part of most people to get embroiled in the controversy,” said Gib Kerr, vice president of Tower Properties. “No one wants to be blamed for killing the bistate plan.”

The quarter-cent sales tax would raise about $600 million over 12 to 15 years to remodel Kauffman and Arrowhead, including financing costs, and raise the same amount for arts projects.

Residents of Jackson, Johnson, Clay, Platte and Wyandotte counties will vote on the tax, and it must pass in Jackson, Johnson and Clay to take effect.

Kerr and others think a baseball park downtown with 81 home games yearly would trigger office, retail, restaurant and housing development.

But they don't want to run afoul of the Greater Kansas City Chamber of Commerce and other business allies that are campaigning hard for the bistate plan.

Jon Copaken, a developer who is chairman of the Downtown Council, declined to comment on the bistate tax plan except to point out that the council's executive committee had endorsed it last month.

There were some dissenters, including Tower Properties President Buzz Willard.

“I think we can do better than what bistate has to offer for a lot of reasons,” Willard said. But, he added, “We have a commitment to the bistate people that the downtown people would not discuss it.”

Chamber President Pete Levi said he was grateful that downtown interests were not working against the bistate plan. While agreeing that a downtown park would have economic benefits, “we are where we are,” Levi said. “This is the very best proposal we have right now and is the one we are able to fund.”

Levi said he is asked about a downtown stadium one of every three times he speaks to a group on the bistate campaign trail. The subject also comes up a lot on sports radio call-in programs, he said.

“When we explain the issue and why a downtown stadium would not work as part of this vote, people understand,” Levi said.

Bill Blanck Jr., a Brookside resident, said he usually supports tax measures for public improvements but is frustrated that the bistate plan calls for upgrading Kauffman instead of building downtown.

“It's still the wrong location,” Blanck said. “It was a mistake 35 years ago; it's a mistake today. ”

The proposal calls for putting $180 million each into Kauffman and Arrowhead, plus financing costs. Both stadiums would get enlarged concourses, more concessions and more suites. Kauffman would add picnic and party areas.

The cost of bringing Kauffman up to date would cost less than half as much as building a new ballpark downtown, Levi said. The cost of a new stadium for the incoming Washington, D.C., team is estimated at $450 million.

“We are a long way from being able to do that,” Levi said.

City Councilman John Fairfield said a downtown ballpark may not be out of financial reach if the bistate plan fails. Fairfield said if another $180 million sales tax proposal was put on the ballot, it could be added to a ticket surcharge, stadium naming rights, private investment and a contribution from the Royals to raise sufficient funds.

Nearly every major-league baseball ballpark built in the past 15 years has gone downtown using varying public and private resources.

“We should have been provided at the very least with that option,” Fairfield said. “I think we would be better off with a downtown stadium. It would bring more returns to the community.”

Ed Peterson, a Johnson County commissioner who helped put together the bistate plan, said making a downtown stadium an alternative in the tax measure was not practical.

“That just further complicates an already complicated measure,” Peterson said. “It would be impossible to assure the voters what they were getting.”

Peterson said a committee of about 15 Johnson County residents considered a downtown stadium as a ballot option but decided there was not enough time to address issues of exact location, street access and surrounding development.

A downtown location probably would have had majority support on the committee if it had been feasible, Peterson said. But he said people should not vote the bistate plan down in the hopes that a downtown stadium will be on a future ballot.

“I wouldn't make this a reason for deciding yes or no on the bistate,” Peterson said. “There are way too many other issues at stake in bistate, and people ought to focus on those.”

Under the bistate law, if the Nov. 2 measure fails, another vote using bistate as a source for financing a stadium downtown could not be on the ballot until November 2006, although other alternatives could be brought forth sooner.

There has been no serious public debate about where a downtown stadium would be located, but sites mentioned have been north of Crown Center, 17th and Main streets, Eighth Street and Baltimore Avenue or near the River Market.

Mayor Kay Barnes backs the bistate plan and doesn't think a downtown ballpark is feasible, spokesman Steve Glorioso said Thursday. City Manager Wayne Cauthen declined to give his view. Cauthen said last year that he favored a ballpark downtown.

The Downtown Council commissioned a study of a downtown ballpark several months ago but never released it out of concern that it would be seen as undermining the bistate tax proposal, Copaken said.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/9921175.htm?1c

I wouldn't mind seeing a downtown ballpark. I'm also voting NO on Bistate II. I'd rather pay for two new stadiums then slap band-aids on them.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:21 PM
yep...


why is it that everyone keeps wanting kansas to pony up and help Mo ... but it's never the other way around.

Were MO residents in the area asked to help pay for the Speedway?

Seriously ... I don't know if that was ever considered.

MM
~~:shrug:

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 01:23 PM
Were MO residents in the area asked to help pay for the Speedway?

Seriously ... I don't know if that was ever considered.

MM
~~:shrug:

i never heard it brought up

redbrian
10-15-2004, 01:24 PM
yep...


why is it that everyone keeps wanting kansas to pony up and help Mo ... but it's never the other way around.

besides... i dont trust missery not to screw it up.


i dont like the idea of just "patching" the current stadiums instead of building new ones either.



IMO i would rather approve twice the tax and just build brand new stadiums for the Royals and Chiefs over by the racetrack and make some kind of super sports complex. Build hotels etc around there too.

The money also goes to fund projects in Kansas.
This is not a patch job, this is a renovation, the stadiums will be good for another 30 years or more after this renovation.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:27 PM
i never heard it brought up

Neither did I. That's why I was wondering. Hell, if it had been I'd have been all for it.

It's done wonders for Wyandotte county (which was sorely needed), but it's also done a great deal for the entire metro area.

I think the stadiums do the same thing. I just wish they'd have the plans for Arrowhead more specific. At the current time, that's the only thing that has me wavering.

MM
~~:hmmm:

irishjayhawk
10-15-2004, 01:32 PM
yep...
IMO i would rather approve twice the tax and just build brand new stadiums for the Royals and Chiefs over by the racetrack and make some kind of super sports complex. Build hotels etc around there too.

Agreed. Plus, parking would NEVER be an issue. That is, there could be plenty of parking and room for tailgating.

However, the only thing is that if passed, it would keep them here til 2030. Which is a plus. On the other hand, Lamar would be stupid to move the team, even if this doesn't pass, as the fanbase and revenue is too great.

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:35 PM
No, keep the teams on the MO side and support them like everyone else.

penguinz
10-15-2004, 01:36 PM
If Lamar and Glass were willing to put more of their own money into it i might favor it. But they are basically offeing the change in their pockets to supplement the tax money. Kaufman ( i think this is the right person) is putting up 100 Million to the 50 Million they are getting for the arts theatre. Glass and Lamar are putting up less than 50 Million each and are gettign almost 200Million from the tax.

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:36 PM
No, keep the teams on the MO side and support them like everyone else.
Or move them downtown...

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 01:39 PM
IMO i would rather approve twice the tax and just build brand new stadiums for the Royals and Chiefs over by the racetrack

F*ck that.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:41 PM
If Lamar and Glass were willing to put more of their own money into it i might favor it. But they are basically offeing the change in their pockets to supplement the tax money. Kaufman ( i think this is the right person) is putting up 100 Million to the 50 Million they are getting for the arts theatre. Glass and Lamar are putting up less than 50 Million each and are gettign almost 200Million from the tax.

While I agree that it would be nice if the owners ponied up more (since they get the revenue), the don't actually own the stadiums. I think that's their reasoning.

Don't necessarily agree with their reasoning, just typing ...

MM
~~:shrug:

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 01:41 PM
Agreed. Plus, parking would NEVER be an issue.

It is now?

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 01:42 PM
If Lamar and Glass were willing to put more of their own money into it i might favor it. But they are basically offeing the change in their pockets to supplement the tax money. Kaufman ( i think this is the right person) is putting up 100 Million to the 50 Million they are getting for the arts theatre. Glass and Lamar are putting up less than 50 Million each and are gettign almost 200Million from the tax.
Lamar has already committed to 50 mil. I don't know what Glass has committed. I believe less.

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:42 PM
There's a huge rumor that Cauthen has a plan for a downtown stadium when bistate fails. I just wonder about Arrowhead in this case...

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 01:42 PM
While I agree that it would be nice if the owners ponied up more (since they get the revenue), the don't actually own the stadiums. I think that's their reasoning.

Don't necessarily agree with their reasoning, just typing ...

MM
~~:shrug:
How much is their lease every year?

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:42 PM
Or move them downtown...

That would be a freaking nightmare.

It would take 20 years of infrastructure work to get downtown ready for 80K+ people. Otherwise, it'd take 20 years to get parked, and another 20 to leave.

Hell, it's difficult enough to get in and out of downtown as it is, and hardly anyone goes there.

MM
~~:shake:

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Lamar has already committed to 50 mil. I don't know what Glass has committed. I believe less.
It's 10-17 mil.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:43 PM
How much is their lease every year?

I honestly have no idea.

A random guess is a few million.

MM
~~:shrug:

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:44 PM
It's 10-17 mil.

Or roughly 60% of the Royal's payroll ...

cheap bastard.

MM
~~:cuss:

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 01:44 PM
I honestly have no idea.

A random guess is a few million.

MM
~~:shrug:
Well, you're just f*cking worthless, aren't you?

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:45 PM
That would be a freaking nightmare.

It would take 20 years of infrastructure work to get downtown ready for 80K+ people. Otherwise, it'd take 20 years to get parked, and another 20 to leave.

Hell, it's difficult enough to get in and out of downtown as it is, and hardly anyone goes there.

MM
~~:shake:
Actually I was talking about the Royals going downtown. 81 home dates would make downtown happenin' not to mention bring all kinds of retail.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:47 PM
Well, you're just f*cking worthless, aren't you?

You're just now figuring this out?

MM
~~:D

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 01:49 PM
You're just now figuring this out?

MM
~~:D
I'm kinda slow.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 01:51 PM
Actually I was talking about the Royals going downtown. 81 home dates would make downtown happenin' not to mention bring all kinds of retail.

Well, I guess since only 12K or so people go to the games anymore, that wouldn't be too bad.

:sulk:

However, what about the other 284 days when there isn't a Royal's game? What then?

The best way to make KC's downtown vital is to:

1. Get people to actually live there. (They are slowly doing this, but it may still not be enough).
2. Have stores for people to shop for groceries, etc. (Those that live near downtown either have to go to Westport or to North KC).
3. Have more restaurants and bars there.
4. Improve the infrastructure (street, highway access, sewer lines -- which are old and often break -- etc.)

Simply putting a stadium downtown won't magically fix downtown's problems. It would be part of it, but it cannot be the only part.

MM
~~:shrug:

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 01:55 PM
Agreed. Plus, parking would NEVER be an issue. That is, there could be plenty of parking and room for tailgating.

However, the only thing is that if passed, it would keep them here til 2030. Which is a plus. On the other hand, Lamar would be stupid to move the team, even if this doesn't pass, as the fanbase and revenue is too great.

if we build both new stadiums over by the racetrack it would keep them around KC for alot longer than 2030. Your talking a 50 year lease then.

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:55 PM
Well, I guess since only 12K or so people go to the games anymore, that wouldn't be too bad.

:sulk:

However, what about the other 284 days when there isn't a Royal's game? What then?

The best way to make KC's downtown vital is to:

1. Get people to actually live there. (They are slowly doing this, but it may still not be enough).
2. Have stores for people to shop for groceries, etc. (Those that live near downtown either have to go to Westport or to North KC).
3. Have more restaurants and bars there.
4. Improve the infrastructure (street, highway access, sewer lines -- which are old and often break -- etc.)

Simply putting a stadium downtown won't magically fix downtown's problems. It would be part of it, but it cannot be the only part.

MM
~~:shrug:

It's a start. Then when the Royals season is over you'll have the arena (maybe a team) P&L district, PAC and some more stuff I can't think off the top of my head.

I'm just tired of having a dead downtown...

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 01:56 PM
F*ck that.

why is that?


better roads, more space ... more chance to develop a big draw area



unless you live in mizzery, then i understand your reluctance

redbrian
10-15-2004, 01:57 PM
That would be a freaking nightmare.

It would take 20 years of infrastructure work to get downtown ready for 80K+ people. Otherwise, it'd take 20 years to get parked, and another 20 to leave.

Hell, it's difficult enough to get in and out of downtown as it is, and hardly anyone goes there.

MM
~~:shake:

I totally agree with you about moving a stadium downtown (either football of baseball), but as far as getting downtown that is not a problem at all. Now this will change when they close the Pesao for renovation work, the traffic will have to move to the Heart of America and the Broadway which could become a bit of a mess.

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 01:59 PM
Why is KS folks so dead set on getting the teams? You have the T-Bones just be happy with that. :rolleyes:

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:05 PM
why is that?

Because driving way the hell over there for a game sounds shitty.


The whole "Kansas is far superior to Missouri" arrogance bit is annoying.

kc rush
10-15-2004, 02:06 PM
I will be voting no for Bi-State II. If I had the money and connections I would start my own campaign called “Think Bigger” because I don’t agree with the distribution of the funds as they stand now. The only way to change the proposal at this point is to kill it and start over to get it placed on 2006 ballots.

I grew up on the MO side and now live in Johnson County. I have no problems sending my tax dollars to KCMO if I feel that they are going toward something that will benefit the entire city, and I know that the funds will be used appropriately.

I love the idea of the performing arts center and think that the design of the building is beautiful. It would be one of those buildings that Monday Night Football likes to show when they do glamour shots of their host city. The problem I have with the arts component (the way I understand it) is that funds are given to an “Arts Council” for each community and funds are distributed at their discretion. It doesn’t seem like there are any checks-and-balances with the program, so it is ripe for fraud.

I agree that Arrowhead needs to have work done to bring it up to the standards of newer stadiums. I agree that suites and amenities should be built which will generate additional revenue, which will help with signing bonuses, but do they really need $200 million? Of the $200 million why is there $30-$40 million miscellaneous expense (slush fund) built in? If there is that kind of a surplus, the Chiefs don’t need $200 million taxpayer dollars.

Off topic – why doesn’t Lamar build a soccer only stadium in JOCO with his own money? He paid for a soccer only stadium for his Columbus team. I’m sick of seeing the torn up field and soccer lines ruining Arrowhead.

Back on topic, I would prefer to see some of the surplus Arrowhead dollars combined with the $200 million the Royals are set to receive and have a downtown stadium built. A new stadium will help with all of the renovation and revitalization projects going on downtown. I do believe that a vibrant downtown will bring in additional tourist dollars to the area, but more importantly it will provide a compelling case for businesses to move into KC increasing the area’s tax base. A new stadium will provide a “Wow” factor to help draw more fans (initially), which will provide the Royals with additional revenue (along with revenue from new suites). This will allow the team to bring in or retain higher-caliber players so they will be more competitive and keep fans coming to the ballpark.

The reason this is all happening now is because Jackson County and the sports authority are about to default on the lease they hold with the Chiefs and Royals. They have not been maintaining or renovating the stadiums as stipulated in current agreements, so they are looking for a quick fix to save their butts.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 02:08 PM
I totally agree with you about moving a stadium downtown (either football of baseball), but as far as getting downtown that is not a problem at all.

From my experience it is.

When coming from the east, it's a total clusterf*ck due to the curves and the split as you get close to downtown. Same with the north -- the bridges are always backed up just with regular traffic. And from the south, again, the lanes are reduced and everything gets clogged.

Granted, that also happens at the current location, but for the most part it's much, much better than it would be downtown.

MM
~~:shrug:

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 02:08 PM
Why is KS folks so dead set on getting the teams? You have the T-Bones just be happy with that. :rolleyes:

cause we tired of having to deal with mizzery when it comes to everything having to deal with the teams.

the cry and moan and then ask for help



standard MO SOP


mizzery has teams... card/rams


KCMO,Royals,Chiefs are the stepchildren of the whole state... fug 'em



i say vote no on bi-state ... then make our own plan and steal both teams.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 02:11 PM
It's a start. Then when the Royals season is over you'll have the arena (maybe a team) P&L district, PAC and some more stuff I can't think off the top of my head.

I'm just tired of having a dead downtown...

I agree that having a lame ass downtown sucks.

But a stadium shouldn't be a start -- it should be a middle or an end. Once you get people to already live, shop and go there it's much easier to justify it. Especially when you consider that the stadium only guarantees people down there 1/4 of the year.

There needs to be people down there 365 days of the year (well, okay, maybe 360 with holidays ;) ), not just 81 or even 162.

MM
~~:shrug:

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 02:11 PM
Because driving way the hell over there for a game sounds shitty.


The whole "Kansas is far superior to Missouri" arrogance bit is annoying.
oh... so people from kansan doing the driving is ok?


and listening to mizzery people talk trash about KS every minute of everyday isn't annoying.

fuk mizzery, fuk Bi-state



i hope KS steals both teams

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:12 PM
oh... so people from kansan doing the driving is ok?

No. They should stay home.

Mark M
10-15-2004, 02:12 PM
cause we tired of having to deal with mizzery when it comes to everything having to deal with the teams.

the cry and moan and then ask for help



Or, we could be like people from Kansas who want the benefits of a viable downtown, good sports teams and stadiums, and a culturally alive city ...

they just want someone else to pay for it.

MM
~~:p

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 02:13 PM
Or, we could be like people from Kansas who want the benefits of a viable downtown, good sports teams and stadiums, and a culturally alive city ...

they just want someone else to pay for it.

MM
~~:p


:p



:moon:

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 02:15 PM
Because driving way the hell over there for a game sounds shitty.


The whole "Kansas is far superior to Missouri" arrogance bit is annoying.
If lame ass Kansas was so superior then how come the Chiefs and Royals weren't over their from the get go. (. x. )(. x. )(. x. )(. x. ) Kansas.

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 02:19 PM
If lame ass Kansas was so superior then how come the Chiefs and Royals weren't over their from the get go. (. x. )(. x. )(. x. )(. x. ) Kansas.
there ya go... there's the REAL mizzery attitude coming out



b@stiges try to be nice when they get ready to ask for money. But we all know that we dont' like each other.


just like that lame @ss attempt to bribe us by saying we can have first crack at tickets just like the people from jackson county.


fuk jackson county, fuk the people from jackson county



no way im voting to give money to mizzery

Mark M
10-15-2004, 02:21 PM
How in the hell did this turn into a MO vs. KS pissing match?

Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ, people ...

MM
~~:banghead:

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:22 PM
How in the hell did this turn into a MO vs. KS pissing match?

Some Kansas who thinks his shit doesn't stink starting shitting on Missouri. Same as always.

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 02:23 PM
there ya go... there's the REAL mizzery attitude coming out



b@stiges try to be nice when they get ready to ask for money. But we all know that we dont' like each other.


just like that lame @ss attempt to bribe us by saying we can have first crack at tickets just like the people from jackson county.


fuk jackson county, fuk the people from jackson county



no way im voting to give money to mizzery
Well now were on the sam page cuz I'm not voting for it either. And since you wanna go there, fuk you snobby, ass kissing, wanna have your cake and eat it too pieces of shit Johnson Countians! :cuss:

Valiant
10-15-2004, 02:24 PM
There's a huge rumor that Cauthen has a plan for a downtown stadium when bistate fails. I just wonder about Arrowhead in this case...


simple bulldose the K, build the new arrowhead there and bulldose the old one for parking and venues...

kc rush
10-15-2004, 02:26 PM
Downtown boosters silent on bistate plan

By KEVIN MURPHY

The Kansas City Star


The proposal calls for putting $180 million each into Kauffman and Arrowhead, plus financing costs. Both stadiums would get enlarged concourses, more concessions and more suites. Kauffman would add picnic and party areas.

The cost of bringing Kauffman up to date would cost less than half as much as building a new ballpark downtown, Levi said. The cost of a new stadium for the incoming Washington, D.C., team is estimated at $450 million.



That is a nice spin. A large part of the cost goes to purchasing land. Land in the DC area is significantly higher than that in KC. There is no way that a new stadium would cost $450 million in KC unless the team went overboard with the luxuries.

KCN
10-15-2004, 02:26 PM
:banghead: :#

This KS/MO shit needs to stop.

We are ONE metro. Overland Park, Olathe, KCK are SUBURBS of KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI. As much as some people like to think the KS/MO sides are somehow twin cities in different states, they are not. Johnson County is a suburb and nothing more.

This is what drives me crazy the most about being from KC. No other city has this heated division within it, and we wonder why we can never get anything done?

Stadiums belong where they are, or downtown. Period. They were put there in the 70s when suburbia became the new trend. A trend that dealt a serious blow to KCMO (and other core cities across the nation). All across the country, including here in KC, this trend is beginning to be reversed with emphasis placed back on core cities. If KC were to put a brand new stadium in suburbs now, the country would laugh at us.

http://www.thinkonekc.com/images_home/banner.gif

[/rant]

I still have not decided on BSII. The best points for and against the vote have already been stated here. Basically for me it comes down to, if we vote this down, are we doubly screwed? Is it better to vote for a bad plan than no plan at all?

I'm not so sure.

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:26 PM
I'm not going to get into some discussion about what is or isn't a "classic stadium", but I do think that Kauffman and Arrowhead are too good to just throw away. A Lambeau style renovation would be awesome. Course, it could end up like Soldier Field, too.... :shudder:

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 02:27 PM
Well now were on the sam page cuz I'm not voting for it either. And since you wanna go there, fuk you snobby, ass kissing, wanna have your cake and eat it too pieces of shit Johnson Countians! :cuss:
now were on the same page then!! :clap:


your a crybaby,trailer park trash mizzerian and im a snobby, @ss kissing johnson countian.



let the kin feud continue :cuss:




lazarus
~back in his comfort zone :p ~

Mark M
10-15-2004, 02:27 PM
Some Kansas who thinks his shit doesn't stink starting shitting on Missouri. Same as always.
Oh ... well ... okay, then.

:spock:

Although, I really just don't get it.

I've lived on both sides of the state line. And that's taught me two things:
Most people in Kansas are complete f***ing idiots.
Most people in Missouri are complete f***ing idiots.

Geography has absolutely nothing to do with it.

MM
~~nlm

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:28 PM
We are ONE metro. Overland Park, Olathe, KCK are SUBURBS of KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI. As much as some people like to think the KS/MO sides are somehow twin cities in different states, they are not. Johnson County is a suburb and nothing more.

What he said.

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:30 PM
Oh ... well ... okay, then.

:spock:

Although, I really just don't get it.

I've lived on both sides of the state line. And that's taught me two things:
Most people in Kansas are complete f***ing idiots.
Most people in Missouri are complete f***ing idiots.

Geography has absolutely nothing to do with it.

MM
~~nlm
If for some reason I found myself moving back to KC, I'd look at the Kansas side, too.

The only real difference for me is jerkoffs with attitudes like lazarus' would see me rolling my eyes at them in person.

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 02:31 PM
The solution is covering both states with kansas city... so that they merge into one united kansas city state?

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 02:31 PM
now were on the same page then!! :clap:


your a crybaby,trailer park trash mizzerian and im a snobby, @ss kissing johnson countian.



let the kin feud continue :cuss:




lazarus
~back in his comfort zone :p ~
ROFL

Let's shoot down this bistate together. You snobby ass kissing Johnson Countian. :)

kc rush
10-15-2004, 02:31 PM
I'm not going to get into some discussion about what is or isn't a "classic stadium", but I do think that Kauffman and Arrowhead are too good to just throw away. A Lambeau style renovation would be awesome. Course, it could end up like Soldier Field, too.... :shudder:

I say you move the two things that make Kaufman unique, the fountains and the jumbotron, to a new stadium with all of the modern conveniences.

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:33 PM
I say you move the two things that make Kaufman unique, the fountains and the jumbotron, to a new stadium with all of the modern conveniences.
How the hell does the jumbotron make it unique? Every stadium in the country has a giant video screen.

Did you mean to say the original scoreboard?

VonneMarie
10-15-2004, 02:33 PM
:banghead: :#

This KS/MO shit needs to stop.

We are ONE metro. Overland Park, Olathe, KCK are SUBURBS of KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI. As much as some people like to think the KS/MO sides are somehow twin cities in different states, they are not. Johnson County is a suburb and nothing more.

This is what drives me crazy the most about being from KC. No other city has this heated division within it, and we wonder why we can never get anything done?

Stadiums belong where they are, or downtown. Period. They were put there in the 70s when suburbia became the new trend. A trend that dealt a serious blow to KCMO (and other core cities across the nation). All across the country, including here in KC, this trend is beginning to be reversed with emphasis placed back on core cities. If KC were to put a brand new stadium in suburbs now, the country would laugh at us.

http://www.thinkonekc.com/images_home/banner.gif

[/rant]

I still have not decided on BSII. The best points for and against the vote have already been stated here. Basically for me it comes down to, if we vote this down, are we doubly screwed? Is it better to vote for a bad plan than no plan at all?

I'm not so sure.

Well tell them peeps on the Ks side they are not superior and then maybe we can all get along.

Mr. Laz
10-15-2004, 02:33 PM
If for some reason I found myself moving back to KC, I'd look at the Kansas side, too.

The only real difference for me is jerkoffs with attitudes like lazarus' would see me rolling my eyes at them in person.
ENDelt making a crack about someone else's attitude?!?!




Brilliant!!!




ROFL ROFL

ENDelt260
10-15-2004, 02:34 PM
I have a great f*cking attitude.

Nightfyre
10-15-2004, 02:35 PM
I have a great f*cking attitude.
Fornication brings out the best in people.... or something....

kc rush
10-15-2004, 02:37 PM
How the hell does the jumbotron make it unique? Every stadium in the country has a giant video screen.

Did you mean to say the original scoreboard?


Yeah. Sorry brain fart.