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View Full Version : Poll Shows Disapproval of Cheney Daughter Reference


Donger
10-15-2004, 03:53 PM
By Richard Morin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 15, 2004; 5:00 PM

An overwhelming majority of voters believe it was wrong for Democratic nominee John F. Kerry to have mentioned in Wednesday's presidential debate that Vice President Cheney's daughter was a lesbian, according to the latest Washington Post tracking survey.

Nearly two in three likely voters -- 64 percent -- said Kerry's comment was "inappropriate," including more than four in 10 of his own supporters and half of all swing voters. A third -- 33 percent -- thought the remark was appropriate.

SNIP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36114-2004Oct15.html

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:26 PM
If he has just said 'gay' this would not have been an issue...

there is something about the word Lesbian. He might have well said dyke or carpet muncher cuz the indignation might have then been alittle more sincere.

Donger
10-15-2004, 04:29 PM
If he has just said 'gay' this would not have been an issue...

there is something about the word Lesbian. He might have well said dyke or carpet muncher cuz the indignation might have then been alittle more sincere.

I disagree. It was the fact that he brought up Mary Cheney at all that people disapprove of, not that he said "lesbian" and not "gay."

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:30 PM
If he has just said 'gay' this would not have been an issue...

there is something about the word Lesbian. He might have well said dyke or carpet muncher cuz the indignation might have then been alittle more sincere.
Thank you for dropping the whole 'this is a non-issue' line. When you get 4/10 of Kerry's supporters weighing in against it, it's pretty clear he stepped in something people found stinky.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:33 PM
Thank you for dropping the whole 'this is a non-issue' line. When you get 4/10 of Kerry's supporters weighing in against it, it's pretty clear he stepped in something people found stinky.

Oh, it's an issue because they needed to divert from ALOT of other crap going on...

even William Buckley sees right through this and he's no apologist for the Dems.

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 04:33 PM
This is kind of like when a black man uses the N word, it is accepted. When a white guy uses it, WWIII starts.

Any politician that uses personal family information in a debate, even if it is public knowledge, has crossed the ethical line.

Kerry was wrong and needs to make a public apology for his statement. What he has said was akin to "She is a lesbian, not that there is anything wrong with that!!"

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:34 PM
I disagree. It was the fact that he brought up Mary Cheney at all that people disapprove of, not that he said "lesbian" and not "gay."
What I see is a pretty fine point, that a lot of people look to twist or spin out of it's orbit.

The disapproval comes from the presumption of Kerry to raise the sexuality of the VP's daughter, in coarse terms, pausing for effect, thinking that doing do would dispirit the president's strongest supporters.

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 04:34 PM
Oh, it's an issue because they needed to divert from ALOT of other crap going on...

even William Buckley sees right through this and he's no apologist for the Dems.
YOU, my dear meme, ARE WRONG. It is an issue because it was WRONG!

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:35 PM
This is kind of like when a black man uses the N word, it is accepted. When a white guy uses it, WWIII starts.

Any politician that uses personal family information in a debate, even if it is public knowledge, has crossed the ethical line.

Kerry was wrong and needs to make a public apology for his statement. What he has said was akin to "She is a lesbian, not that there is anything wrong with that!!"
I likened it yesterday, in terms of the level of disconcert it raised, to Perot addressing the NAACP with the 'you people' line.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:36 PM
This is kind of like when a black man uses the N word, it is accepted. When a white guy uses it, WWIII starts.

Any politician that uses personal family information in a debate, even if it is public knowledge, has crossed the ethical line.

Kerry was wrong and needs to make a public apology for his statement. What he has said was akin to "She is a lesbian, not that there is anything wrong with that!!"

He should apologize after pigs fly. To apologize would be to accept the projection of the intent of what he said was illicit and tawdry. If it wasn't then he need not say sorry for something he did not do.

redbrian
10-15-2004, 04:36 PM
Thank you for dropping the whole 'this is a non-issue' line. When you get 4/10 of Kerry's supporters weighing in against it, it's pretty clear he stepped in something people found stinky.

The issue plan and simple is he was talking about another manís family without personal familiarity of permission to do so.

Most people find this inappropriate, I understand that mememe does not or will not comprehend this as being a simple fact of civility.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:36 PM
I likened it yesterday, in terms of the level of disconcert it raised, to Perot addressing the NAACP with the 'you people' line.

"you people" is a derogatory term. Lesbian is not.

MonicaLewinski
10-15-2004, 04:38 PM
"you people" is a derogatory term. Lesbian is not.

In YOUR opinion. Neither is offensive to me.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:38 PM
I wonder what the numbers would be if they polled gay folks...

because from what I've read they think the feigned outrage by the Cheney's and the RW is more offensive than the remark itself especially given that the outrage is a concerted attempt to divert from their miserable record regarding gay rights.

As Christie Gephard is on CNN saying as we speak.

MonicaLewinski
10-15-2004, 04:39 PM
I wonder what the numbers would be if they polled gay folks...

because from what I've read they think the feigned outrage by the Cheney's and the RW is more offensive than the remark itself.

Who cares? Queers are voting for sKerry anyway.

Donger
10-15-2004, 04:40 PM
Oh, it's an issue because they needed to divert from ALOT of other crap going on...


Nonsense. It's an issue because what Kerry chose to say was a low blow, and totally unnecessary to his point.

Everyone with the capacity for objective thought can see that, hence the 64% disapproval.

Personally, I worry about the other group.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:41 PM
Who cares? Queers are voting for sKerry anyway.

Because if it not offensive for a gay person to be labeled such then who is anyone else to be offended.

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 04:41 PM
He should apologize after pigs fly. To apologize would be to accept the projection of the intent of what he said was illicit and tawdry. If it wasn't then he need not say sorry for something he did not do.

That is the most pathetic comment I have ever heard. The comment was meant to shift the discussion from Kerry's pro-gay agenda.

Your take is shaded by your beliefs, it seems as if a greater number of people in the United States agree with me, it was WRONG!

He should apologize in an appropriate manner.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 04:42 PM
I find it funny that all these Repubs are now politically correct.

If Kerry's daughter was a dyke, and it was Bush or Cheney that brought her up they would've thought is was a shrewd political maneuver that would help solidify the base.

Plus, most of these Repubs really couldn't give two shits about the rights or feelings of homosexuals. Their just creaming in their jeans about the bad pub for Kerry.

MonicaLewinski
10-15-2004, 04:43 PM
Because if it not offensive for a gay person to be labeled such then who is anyone else to be offended.

Being gay is one thing; being a lesbian is another.

It's the difference between Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'Donnel; you are surprised by the first, but not at all surprised by the second.

the Talking Can
10-15-2004, 04:43 PM
I find it funny that all these Repubs are now politically correct.

If Kerry's daughter was a dyke, and it was Bush or Cheney that brought her up they would've thought is was a shrewd political maneuver that would help solidify the base.

Plus, most of these Repubs really couldn't give two shits about the rights or feelings of homosexuals. Their just creaming in their jeans about the bad pub for Kerry.

double-bingo....

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:45 PM
"you people" is a derogatory term. Lesbian is not.
That's why I limited the analogy to level of disconcert.

Perot inadvertantly caused furor by innocently using terminology he didn't know had derogatory connotations to many in his audience.

Kerry caused furor by misreading the reaction Bush's base would have to being reminded of VP Cheney's daughter's sexuality.

redbrian
10-15-2004, 04:45 PM
I wonder what the numbers would be if they polled gay folks...

because from what I've read they think the feigned outrage by the Cheney's and the RW is more offensive than the remark itself especially given that the outrage is a concerted attempt to divert from their miserable record regarding gay rights.

As Christie Gephard is on CNN saying as we speak.

ROFL ROFL Oh shit that is one of the dumbest, funniest things you have spouted in a long time, can we have a link to this, or have you been listening to your imaginary friends again.

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 04:45 PM
I find it funny that all these Repubs are now politically correct.

If Kerry's daughter was a dyke, and it was Bush or Cheney that brought her up they would've thought is was a shrewd political maneuver that would help solidify the base.

Plus, most of these Repubs really couldn't give two shits about the rights or feelings of homosexuals. Their just creaming in their jeans about the bad pub for Kerry.

Your point is not quite correct. President Bush is a more responsible speaker than to dig into his opponents family life. Have you noticed that he has said nothing of the Heinz family record of outsourcing? The family owns 79 manufacturing facilities and 57 of them are off shore.

The comment just shows the lack of ethical behavior of Kerry.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:47 PM
I find it funny that all these Repubs are now politically correct.

If Kerry's daughter was a dyke, and it was Bush or Cheney that brought her up they would've thought is was a shrewd political maneuver that would help solidify the base.

Plus, most of these Repubs really couldn't give two shits about the rights or feelings of homosexuals. Their just creaming in their jeans about the bad pub for Kerry.

Exactly. And when people realize that Cheney himself has talked about her on the campaign trail they tend to see this for what it is...

But Kerry doesn't get a pass here. He HAS to know that the WH is just waiting for him to say STOOOOOOPID shit so they can proceed with their diversion tactics. They know it's a matter of time but not what topic Kerry will saying SOMETHING stooooopid about.

And Kerry doesn't disappoint them. Idiot.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 04:48 PM
Your point is not quite correct. President Bush is a more responsible speaker than to dig into his opponents family life. Have you noticed that he has said nothing of the Heinz family record of outsourcing? The family owns 79 manufacturing facilities and 57 of them are off shore.

The comment just shows the lack of ethical behavior of Kerry.

B fuggin S. Edwards brought up Cheney's daughter in the 2nd debate and no one said a fuggin word.

This is a bunch political horseshit and you know it.

Do you think homosexuals should have equal rights?

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:48 PM
ROFL ROFL Oh shit that is one of the dumbest, funniest things you have spouted in a long time, can we have a link to this, or have you been listening to your imaginary friends again.

www.andrewsullivan.com

You'll have to check CNN for the Gephard interview. It was during Lou Dobbs Tonight.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:49 PM
I find it funny that all these Repubs are now politically correct.
It has nothing to do with politcally incorrect.
It has to do with Kerry thinking his opposition is such a conglomeration of hillbillys that the mere mention of teh ghey would send them back to their shack in the woods, where they'd be polishing their shotgun on Nov2 instead of voting for that datgum gaylovin Bush.

Donger
10-15-2004, 04:50 PM
B fuggin S. Edwards brought up Cheney's daughter in the 2nd debate and no one said a fuggin word.

Precisely.

Now, why is that?

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:52 PM
It has nothing to do with politcally incorrect.
It has to do with Kerry thinking his opposition is such a conglomeration of hillbillys that the mere mention of teh ghey would send them back to their shack in the woods, where they'd be polishing their shotgun on Nov2 instead of voting for that datgum gaylovin Bush.

If Cons think that then they should stop projecting that on Kerry...

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:53 PM
Precisely.

Now, why is that?

Because Edwards did not use the "L" word.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:53 PM
B fuggin S. Edwards brought up Cheney's daughter in the 2nd debate and no one said a fuggin word.
Liar.

Cheney simply responded with a "thank you for the kind remarks," because he's;

a) classy enough to restrain his anger, and
b) smart enough to know that Edwards already looked like an ass. No need to elaborate.

Spinsters after the debate remarked on it early and often. SNL did an entire fugging skit on it.

Further, that first runthough with Edwards ramped up the indignation over Kerry's remarks, as it made it clear that this was a campaign talking point, for whatever reason. Not merely a misstep.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 04:53 PM
It has nothing to do with politcally incorrect.
It has to do with Kerry thinking his opposition is such a conglomeration of hillbillys that the mere mention of teh ghey would send them back to their shack in the woods, where they'd be polishing their shotgun on Nov2 instead of voting for that datgum gaylovin Bush.

You know what, I can't deny that, I also agree that that was Kerry's intention.

But with all of the partisan fire bombs going off this election year, it doesn't suprise me.

But I certainly don't think that the Repubs care any more about the feelings of Cheney's daughter than the Kerry campaign. They are making political hay out this just as much as Kerry was attempting to.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 04:54 PM
Liar.

Cheney simply responded with a "thank you for the kind remarks," because he's;

a) classy enough to restrain his anger, and
b) smart enough to know that Edwards already looked like an ass. No need to elaborate.

Spinsters after the debate remarked on it early and often. SNL did an entire fugging skit on it.

Further, that first runthough with Edwards ramped up the indignation over Kerry's remarks, as it made it clear that this was a campaign talking point, for whatever reason. Not merely a misstep.

There wasn't the outcry that the Kerry remark has caused.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:56 PM
There wasn't the outcry that the Kerry remark has caused.
Because it was the first time around, Edwards delivered it with more tact, and it was in the less watched VP debate.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 04:56 PM
Liar.

Cheney simply responded with a "thank you for the kind remarks," because he's;

a) classy enough to restrain his anger, and
b) smart enough to know that Edwards already looked like an ass. No need to elaborate.

Spinsters after the debate remarked on it early and often. SNL did an entire fugging skit on it.

Further, that first runthough with Edwards ramped up the indignation over Kerry's remarks, as it made it clear that this was a campaign talking point, for whatever reason. Not merely a misstep.

He was not angry. Do you think Cheney with his ass kicking reputation would not have dissected Edwards if he had not crossed the line.

If anything he's following his wife's lead after she saw her husband take a pass after his daughter was supposedly insulted. It was not until she came out smoking did the Dick speak out.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:57 PM
You know what, I can't deny that, I also agree that that was Kerry's intention.
If Cons think that then they should stop projecting that on Kerry...
Sorry Cannibal, you've been outed. :p

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 04:58 PM
Sorry Cannibal, you've been outed. :p

I thought that was Kerry's intention from the start, anyone with half a brain would. Unfortunately, it seems to have backfired.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 04:59 PM
He was not angry. Do you think Cheney with his ass kicking reputation would not have dissected Edwards if he had not crossed the line.
Serious question, did you LISTEN, or WATCH? Because the irritation was there in Cheney's face. And the class and restraint of his response dissected Edwards [soon to be eclipsed] ham-handedness in a way a more direct or passionate attack would have.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 05:01 PM
I thought that was Kerry's intention from the start, anyone with half a brain would. Unfortunately, it seems to have backfired.
Wow!! Now Mememe has been outed. ROFL ROFL

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 05:01 PM
Sorry Cannibal, you've been outed. :p

I'm sorry, I don't believe it was a planned event. How would he even know the question would be asked.I think he just said something without completely thinking through the implication. I think he tried to piggyback Edwards' remarks and did so in a less than diplomatic fashion because he used her complete name AND the "L" word.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 05:02 PM
Serious question, did you LISTEN, or WATCH? Because the irritation was there in Cheney's face. And the class and restraint of his response dissected Edwards [soon to be eclipsed] ham-handedness in a way a more direct or passionate attack would have.

Yes, I've seen it numerous times. I saw him reluctant to address the point because he did not want to get into the discussion because he's at odds with the President's policy BECAUSE of his daughter...

thus he passed. Not because he was so angry he could not speak. :rolleyes:

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:04 PM
I'm sorry, I don't believe it was a planned event. How would he even know the question would be asked.I think he just said something without completely thinking through the implication. I think he tried to piggyback Edwards' remarks and did so in a less than diplomatic fashion because he used her complete name AND the "L" word.

Sorry Denise. I lean more towards the left and will vote for Kerry in this election. But it was a planned event. It was planned for the Edwards and Kerry debate.

Their handlers basically said... if they bring up gay marriage, make sure you bring up Cheney's daughter it will cause some of the extreme right to rethink their position on Bush/Cheney.

As soon as I heard Kerry say it, I knew that that was their intent.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 05:05 PM
Yes, I've seen it numerous times. I saw him reluctant to address the point because he did not want to get into the discussion because he's at odds with the President's policy BECAUSE of his daughter...

thus he passed. Not because he was so angry he could not speak. :rolleyes:
Denise, the face whisperer.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:07 PM
But my original point still stands, that the Repubs really don't give two shits about Cheney's daughter or homosexual rights, their just happy about the bad pub for Kerry.

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 05:07 PM
Do you think homosexuals should have equal rights?

Clarify what you are asking. Equal rights in what respect?

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Clarify what you are asking. Equal rights in what respect?

In all respects.

Cochise
10-15-2004, 05:10 PM
The problem isn't the word that he used, it's that he took a member of a candidate's family and used their private life as political capital. I don't think most people would approve of that.

memyselfI
10-15-2004, 05:11 PM
Sorry Denise. I lean more towards the left and will vote for Kerry in this election. But it was a planned event. It was planned for the Edwards and Kerry debate.

Their handlers basically said... if they bring up gay marriage, make sure you bring up Cheney's daughter it will cause some of the extreme right to rethink their position on Bush/Cheney.

As soon as I heard Kerry say it, I knew that that was their intent.

That's ok. I just don't see that Kerry would risk turning off voters in such a risky fashion. He faced alienating gay people as much if not more than he did right wing nut jobs.

William Buckley and Andrew Sullivan appear to agree with me and neither of them are Kerry folks.

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 05:11 PM
In all respects.

Equal rights for jobs etc., yes. Extending the right to be married, no. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:13 PM
That's ok. I just don't see that Kerry would risk turning off voters in such a risky fashion. He faced alienating gay people as much if not more than he did right wing nut jobs.

William Buckley and Andrew Sullivan appear to agree with me and neither of them are Kerry folks.

I think they took a political gamble and so far it appears they may have lost. In the end, my hope is that it won't amount to jack squat in regards to the final polls. But who knows, maybe it will.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 05:14 PM
But my original point still stands, that the Repubs really don't give two shits about Cheney's daughter or homosexual rights, their just happy about the bad pub for Kerry.
I didn't say it was about homosexual rights at all.
It's about what Kerry thinks of his opponents.

Closest analogy I can conjure is if Bush went to a UAW Union Hall and told someone who worked for a Chevy plant that he'd seen Kerry driving a Ford. And the union member's response is "you think I'm stupid enough to vote against the friend of the union man over something THAT petty? You think that makes a difference to me?"

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 05:15 PM
That's ok. I just don't see that Kerry would risk turning off voters in such a risky fashion. He faced alienating gay people as much if not more than he did right wing nut jobs.

William Buckley and Andrew Sullivan appear to agree with me and neither of them are Kerry folks.

What you believe doesn't make it right.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:16 PM
Equal rights for jobs etc., yes. Extending the right to be married, no. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

Good. While I believe they should have equal rights across the board, I am glad to see you are open minded enough to at least give them the rights we all have regarding everything else. Maybe in the future you'll open your mind a little further.

Thanks.

Baby Lee
10-15-2004, 05:16 PM
Equal rights for jobs etc., yes. Extending the right to be married, no. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
Quick reminder, when it comes to 'equal rights.' Homosexuals have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex that heterosexuals do. Just because it's not as appealing to them, doesn't make it inequitable.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:19 PM
I didn't say it was about homosexual rights at all.
It's about what Kerry thinks of his opponents.

Closest analogy I can conjure is if Bush went to a UAW Union Hall and told someone who worked for a Chevy plant that he'd seen Kerry driving a Ford. And the union member's response is "you think I'm stupid enough to vote against the friend of the union man over something THAT petty? You think that makes a difference to me?"

I am not talking about you in particular. I am talking about this Repub backlash in general.

All these Repubs crying about Cheney's daughter couldn't care less about homosexual rights, or even the fact that he brought her up at all in the debate [except maybe the Log Cabin Repubs]. All they care about is that Kerry is getting a lot of heat and they are creaming all over themselves right about now.

DanT
10-15-2004, 05:21 PM
I didn't say it was about homosexual rights at all.
It's about what Kerry thinks of his opponents.

Closest analogy I can conjure is if Bush went to a UAW Union Hall and told someone who worked for a Chevy plant that he'd seen Kerry driving a Ford. And the union member's response is "you think I'm stupid enough to vote against the friend of the union man over something THAT petty? You think that makes a difference to me?"

Do you know anyone who works or worked at an auto plant?

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 05:25 PM
Good. While I believe they should have equal rights across the board, I am glad to see you are open minded enough to at least give them the rights we all have regarding everything else. Maybe in the future you'll open your mind a little further.

Thanks.

IN the future I will still believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I do believe that homosexuality is a choice, not an abboration of nature. Marriage is basically spelled out in the bible. There was a punishment for being abborant. Read about Sodom and Gomorrah.

In the future don't try to lump me in with your sexual beliefs. I've worked around gays and lesbians for many years. They are normal people other than their sexual preference. I have a family member that is gay, it doesn't make him any less related.

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 05:27 PM
I am not talking about you in particular. I am talking about this Repub backlash in general.

All these Repubs crying about Cheney's daughter couldn't care less about homosexual rights, or even the fact that he brought her up at all in the debate [except maybe the Log Cabin Repubs]. All they care about is that Kerry is getting a lot of heat and they are creaming all over themselves right about now.

You are just as wrong as your friend meme. What Kerry did was wrong. If Bush said the same thing about Kerry's lesbian daughter it would be as wrong.

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:28 PM
IN the future I will still believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I do believe that homosexuality is a choice, not an abboration of nature. Marriage is basically spelled out in the bible. There was a punishment for being abborant. Read about Sodom and Gomorrah.

In the future don't try to lump me in with your sexual beliefs. I've worked around gays and lesbians for many years. They are normal people other than their sexual preference. I have a family member that is gay, it doesn't make him any less related.

Don't ever quote the bible to me in any way when trying to prove a point. It really doesn't mean shit to me. It's a fuggin fairytale IMO.

If you have other scientific means or other proof, please feel free to share with me. If all you have is the bible... don't bother.

|Zach|
10-15-2004, 05:33 PM
Cheney has referred to her and her situation in the past himself. You would think if it was such off limits then he would choose not to mention her at all. Is turn about not fair play?

Cannibal
10-15-2004, 05:35 PM
Cheney has referred to her and her situation in the past himself. You would think if it was such off limits then he would choose not to mention her at all. Is turn about not fair play?

I agree with you to a point. What the Repubs will say is that it was "Family" that brought her up when Cheney said it, and that it was "political" when Kerry brought her up.

It's political both ways IMO.

MonicaLewinski
10-15-2004, 05:49 PM
Cheney has referred to her and her situation in the past himself. You would think if it was such off limits then he would choose not to mention her at all. Is turn about not fair play?

Context, by whom, and choice of wording matters....

If Manson says to a reporter, "Polanski's wife squealed like a stuck pig when we killed her....I understand his pain. I understand his grief," that would be offensive wouldn't it?

DanT
10-15-2004, 06:31 PM
Here's an interesting interview transcript between Illinois Republican Senatorial Candidate Alan Keyes and the news media:

http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/media/interviews/04_09_01reporters.htm

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 06:35 PM
Don't ever quote the bible to me in any way when trying to prove a point. It really doesn't mean shit to me. It's a fuggin fairytale IMO.

If you have other scientific means or other proof, please feel free to share with me. If all you have is the bible... don't bother.
It bothers me not that you have a problem with the bible. There are many people in the country that believe what it says and live by the standards it sets forth. For those who believe it gives them hope, for those like you, I guess worms gotta eat too.

Just for the sake of sharing what I have, I'll make every effort to find scriptural references when sending a reply to one of your posts.

DanT
10-15-2004, 06:41 PM
It bothers me not that you have a problem with the bible. There are many people in the country that believe what it says and live by the standards it sets forth. For those who believe it gives them hope, for those like you, I guess worms gotta eat too.

Just for the sake of sharing what I have, I'll make every effort to find scriptural references when sending a reply to one of your posts.


www.biblegateway.com is a great resource

BroWhippendiddle
10-15-2004, 06:46 PM
www.biblegateway.com (http://www.biblegateway.com) is a great resource

Thanks, it has more references to other versions than the software I have on my computer.


For Canibal
John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.

memyselfI
10-16-2004, 07:57 AM
Here's an interesting interview transcript between Illinois Republican Senatorial Candidate Alan Keyes and the news media:

http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/media/interviews/04_09_01reporters.htm

ah, cut him some slack...

he agreed she was selfish, a hedonist, a sinner but he didn't go so far and 'out of bounds' as to say that she is a L-E-S-B-I-A-N.


So why should any eyebrows be raised? Especially by her parents... :hmmm:

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 08:15 AM
ah, cut him some slack...

he agreed she was selfish, a hedonist, a sinner but he didn't go so far and 'out of bounds' as to say that she is a L-E-S-B-I-A-N.


So why should any eyebrows be raised? Especially by her parents... :hmmm:
Obviously some people are slower than others.

Keyes was directly ASKED about Mary Cheney. Keyes is not running for any office in which I will be voting.

Kerry deliberately brought up Mary Cheney himself merely as a political tool and Kerry is running for POTUS.

Admit it, it was only a tactic, and it backfired.

memyselfI
10-16-2004, 08:21 AM
Obviously some people are slower than others.

Keyes was directly ASKED about Mary Cheney. Keyes is not running for any office in which I will be voting.

Kerry deliberately brought up Mary Cheney himself merely as a political tool and Kerry is running for POTUS.

Admit it, it was only a tactic, and it backfired.

Sure, after you admit the Cheney's 'outrage' is 'only a tactic.'

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 08:28 AM
Sure, after you admit the Cheney's 'outrage' is 'only a tactic.'
Dick Cheney was outraged?

I know that Lynne Cheney stated "this is not a good man. This is not an honest man" in reference to the situation. I tend to agree with her.

memyselfI
10-16-2004, 08:32 AM
Dick Cheney was outraged?

I know that Lynne Cheney stated "this is not a good man. This is not an honest man" in reference to the situation. I tend to agree with her.

He said he is 'an angry father.' He did not seem to have the same public reaction to Alan Keyes verbal assault on his daughter...only Kerry's complimentary remark. :hmmm:

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 08:36 AM
He said he is 'an angry father.' He did not seem to have the same public reaction to Alan Keyes verbal assault on his daughter...only Kerry's complimentary remark. :hmmm:
I would tend to agree with you. Obviously, he is not running against Keyes, but being of the same party, one would expect better manners.

Seems that both Keyes and Kerry are not above using the bodies of others to step forward. Fortunately, only one of them is running for POTUS

stevieray
10-16-2004, 08:53 AM
Don't ever quote the bible to me in any way when trying to prove a point. It really doesn't mean shit to me. It's a fuggin fairytale IMO.

If you have other scientific means or other proof, please feel free to share with me. If all you have is the bible... don't bother.

I believe you're a dick, if you have means or proof that you aren't, please feel free to share with me. If all you have is your opinion, don't bother.

:p

memyselfI
10-16-2004, 08:59 AM
I would tend to agree with you. Obviously, he is not running against Keyes, but being of the same party, one would expect better manners.

Seems that both Keyes and Kerry are not above using the bodies of others to step forward. Fortunately, only one of them is running for POTUS

The difference being Keyes is condemning Cheney's daughter as being Hell bound whiile Kerry is using her own advocacy to bring attention to her father's administrations treatment of gays...

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 09:12 AM
The difference being Keyes is condemning Cheney's daughter as being Hell bound whiile Kerry is using her own advocacy to bring attention to her father's administrations treatment of gays...
What does the difference matter? Again, is Keyes running for POTUS or anything I am voting for?

Your reasoning simply is not reasonable.

memyselfI
10-16-2004, 09:39 AM
What does the difference matter? Again, is Keyes running for POTUS or anything I am voting for?

Your reasoning simply is not reasonable.

Because the feigned outrage is so utterly and completely dishonest...

Alan Keyes was RECRUITED by the REPUBLICAN PARTY to go up against Barak Obama. He was hand picked as someone who might be able to make a race of it instead of having the seat go to the Dems unchallenged. They needed a strong character that could go toe to toe with the increasingly popular Obama.

For the Republicans to overlook THEIR OWN HANDPICKED CANDIDTATE'S TRASHING of their OWN VICE PRESIDENT'S daughter and then turn around and claim outrage over their opponent's (for President) complimentary words about her is a freakin joke and a political tooling far worse than Kerry could have ever hoped to accomplish even if by design. (which I don't believe was designed to begin with...)

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 09:50 AM
Because the feigned outrage is so utterly and completely dishonest...



The rest of your post is not relevant. Again, this is not about Keyes or Cheney. It is about a politically motivated statement regarding an individual not involved in politics. It was shallow, crass, and assinine.

Your constant deflection back to Cheney instead of focusing on the act itself proves your desperation.

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 09:58 AM
The rest of your post is not relevant. Again, this is not about Keyes or Cheney. It is about a politically motivated statement regarding an individual not involved in politics. It was shallow, crass, and assinine.

Your constant deflection back to Cheney instead of focusing on the act itself proves your desperation.
Darn, I forgot my laughing smiley face.... Ahh, well, you got the jist.

Cannibal
10-16-2004, 10:31 AM
I believe you're a dick, if you have means or proof that you aren't, please feel free to share with me. If all you have is your opinion, don't bother.

:p

I KNOW you're a dick and I don't need you to prove it to me.

:thumb:

Cannibal
10-16-2004, 10:33 AM
It bothers me not that you have a problem with the bible. There are many people in the country that believe what it says and live by the standards it sets forth. For those who believe it gives them hope, for those like you, I guess worms gotta eat too.

Just for the sake of sharing what I have, I'll make every effort to find scriptural references when sending a reply to one of your posts.

Feel free to believe the bible all you want, I have no problem with that. Just don't quote the bible when trying to support your argument. It means nothing to me and doesn't prove anything.

stevieray
10-16-2004, 10:44 AM
I KNOW you're a dick and I don't need you to prove it to me.

:thumb:

Of course you don't....because it means nothing and doesn't prove anything.

Boozer
10-16-2004, 10:54 AM
Darn, I forgot my laughing smiley face.... Ahh, well, you got the jist.

I was going to say...Cheney's daughter not involved in politics? ROFL

DanT
10-16-2004, 10:54 AM
Is lesbian a derogatory word? In college, GALA was the gay and lesbian students association. I always took that to mean that it included homosexual women. Did it mean that G stood for gay people of both genders and L stood for a particular type of homosexual woman?

On the White House website, if you search for "lesbian", you'll pull up a handful of times in press conferences and such where "lesbian" is used in the phrase "gay and lesbian".

Boozer
10-16-2004, 10:57 AM
Is lesbian a derogatory word? In college, GALA was the gay and lesbian students association. I always took that to mean that it included homosexual women. Did it mean that G stood for gay people of both genders and L stood for a particular type of homosexual woman?

On the White House website, if you search for "lesbian", you'll pull up a handful of times in press conferences and such where "lesbian" is used in the phrase "gay and lesbian".

While I agree that Kerry's remark was of at least a questionable nature, it's quite the reach to call it "gay bashing" as some on this board have done.

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 11:24 AM
Is lesbian a derogatory word? In college, GALA was the gay and lesbian students association. I always took that to mean that it included homosexual women. Did it mean that G stood for gay people of both genders and L stood for a particular type of homosexual woman?

On the White House website, if you search for "lesbian", you'll pull up a handful of times in press conferences and such where "lesbian" is used in the phrase "gay and lesbian".
So using your analogy, the Repulicans could reference Wade Edwards during a debate to show that our roads are not safe and the Kerry/Edwards campaign would say (nor should say) anything about it?

After all, being dead is not derogatory, is it?

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 11:24 AM
While I agree that Kerry's remark was of at least a questionable nature, it's quite the reach to call it "gay bashing" as some on this board have done.
I agree.

mlyonsd
10-16-2004, 11:30 AM
I guess if you're a family member in the campaign you're fair game.

If that's the case then Bush should create an ad stating that if elected one of the top health care issues his administration will attack is obesity/eating disorders in the hopes cures can be found to help Mrs. Edwards and Mrs. Kerry.

Naw, I don't think he'd stoop to making an issue out of the personal lives of candidates' family members. That kind of attack is most notably a Democratic tactic.

Baby Lee
10-16-2004, 11:33 AM
While I agree that Kerry's remark was of at least a questionable nature, it's quite the reach to call it "gay bashing" as some on this board have done.
It's not so much bashing gays in a calculated attempt to draw on perceived anti-gay sentiment in Bush's supporters.

BroWhippendiddle
10-16-2004, 01:39 PM
Feel free to believe the bible all you want, I have no problem with that. Just don't quote the bible when trying to support your argument. It means nothing to me and doesn't prove anything.

The bible has been proven time and time again to be a great record of history. The significance of what it says has true meaning in our world and in the upcoming events that will eventually end what we know as the earth.

If you don't believe that I feel sorry for you, when the end comes you will be one calling on the name of Jesus to save your sorry butt. good luck.

Joe Seahawk
10-16-2004, 02:01 PM
Maybe Bush should come out and say about obesity:

"Well I'm sure if you asked John Edwards wife about obesity, she would feel she was born with the urge to inhale wendy's triple bacon burgers"

I'm sure that would go over real well.. :rolleyes:

Boozer
10-16-2004, 02:08 PM
The bible has been proven time and time again to be a great record of history. The significance of what it says has true meaning in our world and in the upcoming events that will eventually end what we know as the earth.

If you don't believe that I feel sorry for you, when the end comes you will be one calling on the name of Jesus to save your sorry butt. good luck.

You know, I don't think "vindictiveness" is a quality Christians should embrace.

Boozer
10-16-2004, 02:08 PM
Maybe Bush should come out and say about obesity:

"Well I'm sure if you asked John Edwards wife about obesity, she would feel she was born with the urge to inhale wendy's triple bacon burgers"

I'm sure that would go over real well.. :rolleyes:

The difference is, there's nothing wrong with being a lesbian.

Baby Lee
10-16-2004, 02:10 PM
The bible has been proven time and time again to be a great record of history. The significance of what it says has true meaning in our world and in the upcoming events that will eventually end what we know as the earth.

If you don't believe that I feel sorry for you, when the end comes you will be one calling on the name of Jesus to save your sorry butt. good luck.
He told you he didn't believe. Ecumenical efforts are fruitless. Let it go.

Baby Lee
10-16-2004, 02:11 PM
The difference is, there's nothing wrong with being a lesbian.
And there is something wrong with Edward's wife being fat?

Boozer
10-16-2004, 02:23 PM
And there is something wrong with Edward's wife being fat?

Being overweight is a personal failing. I should know.

Joe Seahawk
10-16-2004, 02:27 PM
If Bush was asked about whether or not you're born Obese, and he referred to Edwards wife. That is the analogy I was attempting..

Kerry could have answered the question without mentioning Cheney's daughter.

Raiderhader
10-16-2004, 02:28 PM
Is lesbian a derogatory word? In college, GALA was the gay and lesbian students association. I always took that to mean that it included homosexual women. Did it mean that G stood for gay people of both genders and L stood for a particular type of homosexual woman?

On the White House website, if you search for "lesbian", you'll pull up a handful of times in press conferences and such where "lesbian" is used in the phrase "gay and lesbian".


No. Denise is the only one suggesting that it is in an attempt to make her ridiculous argument.

Lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian. No one is offended by the word. It is purely the use of a non-candidate in politically calculated statement to emphasize the difference of opinion between Bush and Cheney, and to try and hurt Bush with his base that has people upset.

Kerry was engaging in gay baiting, pure and simple.

Raiderhader
10-16-2004, 02:29 PM
Being overweight is a personal failing. I should know.


There are probably some offensive and defensive linemen who would disagree with you....

Baby Lee
10-16-2004, 03:15 PM
And if there remains anyone who questions the basis for my take on this exchange, I submit the following.

http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=121

what about the book she doesn't mention? What about her out of print book "Sisters" ?

This book, published 23 years ago, before her husband became one of the nation's most influential spokesmen for family values, has pages filled with fornication/adultery (the heroine with her sister's husband), incest (half brother knocks up half sister), adultery (the heroine, with her first husband's friend), contraception (by the wed and the unwed) and lesbian couplings (the heroine's sister and an older woman). Throw in a few lynchings, dog killings, a little cattle theft and a sprinkling of robber-baronism and you have a real page turner.

We can be sure a book like this would never find its way into any library under the control of Laura Bush. . . .

The book is set as a frontier novel like none you have ever read. It is set in the 19th century and it is hot, it's sexy and now that the word is out, it's also out of print. . .

As humorous as this sounds, what would the Christian Right say about the lesbianism, the adultery, the contraception that fill the pages of Lynne Cheney's book? Would they be offended? Would they call it smut?

It is certain this book would offend some, if not many Bush voters. The book is frank, and it is uncensorious feminism that is astonishing to most Democrats, let alone the faith based Republican party.

In her book, Cheney's women do what has to be done, and we wonder how close to real life it actually is?

There is the lesbian coupling (the heroine's sister and an older woman). Is there a parallel in Lynne Cheney's life?

And there is the fornication/adultery (the heroine with her sister's husband). What parallel is hidden in this part of the book.

Or, was it written out of sheer frustration?

Creative juices, as they are, come from somewhere within the creator. What, or who, got Mrs. Cheney's juices flowing twenty some odd years ago so that the book "Sisters" was written? And now that Mrs. Cheney is at her zenith, why is she refusing to have it back in print?
Though this is fringe, and decidedly not a Kerry campaign missive, it is indicative of the undercurrents on the left of feigning forward thinking whilst nudging a whisper campaign that is decidedly prudish.

DanT
10-16-2004, 04:56 PM
So using your analogy, the Repulicans could reference Wade Edwards during a debate to show that our roads are not safe and the Kerry/Edwards campaign would say (nor should say) anything about it?

After all, being dead is not derogatory, is it?

What analogy?

I only asked whether or not lesbian is now considered a derogatory word.

DanT
10-16-2004, 04:57 PM
No. Denise is the only one suggesting that it is in an attempt to make her ridiculous argument.

Lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian lesbian. No one is offended by the word. It is purely the use of a non-candidate in politically calculated statement to emphasize the difference of opinion between Bush and Cheney, and to try and hurt Bush with his base that has people upset.

Kerry was engaging in gay baiting, pure and simple.

Thanks, raiderhader.

memyselfI
10-16-2004, 05:09 PM
Maybe Bush should come out and say about obesity:

"Well I'm sure if you asked John Edwards wife about obesity, she would feel she was born with the urge to inhale wendy's triple bacon burgers"

I'm sure that would go over real well.. :rolleyes:

Actually this is a good point made in a horrible fashion...

what if one of the Edwards daughter had battled cancer and was an advocate and campaigned publically discussing her plight? Do you think that John Edwards would go hysterical if his daughter's very public activism was commended and used in an example in an argument about health care? :hmmm:

memyselfI
10-16-2004, 05:11 PM
So using your analogy, the Repulicans could reference Wade Edwards during a debate to show that our roads are not safe and the Kerry/Edwards campaign would say (nor should say) anything about it?

After all, being dead is not derogatory, is it?

Well, you would risk exploiting their personal tragedy...

are you insinuating that Mary Cheney lesbianism is a personal tragedy for the Cheneys? :hmmm:

6 Iron
10-16-2004, 05:15 PM
The difference is, there's nothing wrong with being a lesbian.


I am intrigued by comments like these. I suspect that if the vast majority of those reading here were to find out tomorrow that one of their children was gay, there would be a wide range of reactions from pain, disappointment, or worry to at least a strong concern about the difficulties and prejudices that the child will face. But to pretend this is simply like saying one prefers chocolate to strawberry ice cream is to ignore reality. And to ignore why this issue is not "fair game".

Boozer
10-16-2004, 05:16 PM
I am intrigued by comments like these. I suspect that if the vast majority of those reading here were to find out tomorrow that one of their children was gay, there would be a wide range of reactions from pain, disappointment, or worry to at least a strong concern about the difficulties and prejudices that the child will face. But to pretend this is simply like saying one prefers chocolate to strawberry ice cream is to ignore reality. And to ignore why this issue is not "fair game".

So, you think there's something wrong with Mary Cheney being a lesbian?

6 Iron
10-16-2004, 05:23 PM
So, you think there's something wrong with Mary Cheney being a lesbian?

I think what I said. It is not a simple issue.

2bikemike
10-16-2004, 05:25 PM
And there is something wrong with Edward's wife being fat?

Only if he tries to sue McDonalds or some other fast food chain for her obesity.

Raiderhader
10-16-2004, 05:28 PM
Thanks, raiderhader.


I live to serve.

BroWhippendiddle
10-16-2004, 05:35 PM
You know, I don't think "vindictiveness" is a quality Christians should embrace.

Probably not, but I've never claimed to be perfect. I can be forgiven.

BroWhippendiddle
10-16-2004, 05:37 PM
He told you he didn't believe. Ecumenical efforts are fruitless. Let it go.

Naw, too much fun getting him pissed. Maybe something will stick and he will eventually have an experience that will move him to believe.

Raiderhader
10-16-2004, 05:40 PM
Naw, too much fun getting him pissed. Maybe something will stick and he will eventually have an experience that will move him to believe.


Pissing someone off is rarely a smart tactic to employ when you are trying to win them over.

I'm with BL, let it go.

BroWhippendiddle
10-16-2004, 05:59 PM
Pissing someone off is rarely a smart tactic to employ when you are trying to win them over.

I'm with BL, let it go.

Sorry, I can try to do what I can. I'm not really trying to piss him off, just get him to open his eyes a bit.

After all, I didn't start calling him names. Just started puting up what he says he doesn't "give a shit" (his words) about.

DanT
10-16-2004, 06:07 PM
More on the actual Lynn Cheney novel can be found on the spoof website, www.whitehouse.org :


Here's their tribute to it:
http://www.whitehouse.org/administration/sisters.asp

Brock
10-16-2004, 06:10 PM
Is Tom Cash back?

penchief
10-16-2004, 06:21 PM
I haven't read all of these posts but I have to say that this is the most bogus issue when all things are considered. Granted, I disapproved of Kerry citing Cheney's daughter. I understand why he did it but I still feel it was in bad taste. Having said that, Liz Cheney's response is so obviously a political ploy completely in line with how the GOP operates.

"Dear Lord, let us deflect attention away from the real issues and focus on something that can be distorted to play on America's sensibilities."

It has been a tried and true method even though it reflects poorly on the American public. To be so obviously manipulated by the Bush/Rove Method in order to malign Kerry as a human being instead of focusing on how the GOP has used gay marriage as a divisive issue to appeal to the prejudices of middle America is not only offensive to gays but to Middle America as well. Then, to fiegn outrage for political gain is even more disgusting. It is pure politics. If they don't want thier daughter in the spotlight then they should shut up and let the controversy die. But they want to intentionally drag it out because they are dishonestly making political hay about something that is irrelevent.

I admit that Kerry's comment was pure politics, as well. I did not approve of it and I squirmed when he invoked her name. But, I understand that he was simply trying to illlustrate the hypocricy and the inhumanity of the GOP's efforts to marginalize a segment of society for political opportunism.

For those on the right who want to make this an issue, shame on you. We have citizens in harms way in Iraq and Afghanistan. Every day life has become so much more difficult for the average American in the past four years that it is not even funny. The libertarian views that inspired our Founding Fathers are under assault since this administration has been in office and we have half the population saying that is okay!

C'mon people! Wake up!

ZepSinger
10-16-2004, 06:40 PM
The bible has been proven time and time again to be a great record of history. The significance of what it says has true meaning in our world and in the upcoming events that will eventually end what we know as the earth.

If you don't believe that I feel sorry for you, when the end comes you will be one calling on the name of Jesus to save your sorry butt. good luck.

I'm with you, Bro.
:clap:

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 08:29 PM
The difference is, there's nothing wrong with being a lesbian.
There's nothign wrong with being ugly or fat either.

KCWolfman
10-16-2004, 08:30 PM
Actually this is a good point made in a horrible fashion...

what if one of the Edwards daughter had battled cancer and was an advocate and campaigned publically discussing her plight? Do you think that John Edwards would go hysterical if his daughter's very public activism was commended and used in an example in an argument about health care? :hmmm:
I don't know, let's ask the fetus he communicated with regarding its horrible plight.

Baby Lee
10-17-2004, 07:09 AM
I admit that Kerry's comment was pure politics, as well. I did not approve of it and I squirmed when he invoked her name.
For those on the right who want to make this an issue, shame on you. We have citizens in harms way in Iraq and Afghanistan. Every day life has become so much more difficult for the average American in the past four years that it is not even funny. The libertarian views that inspired our Founding Fathers are under assault since this administration has been in office and we have half the population saying that is okay!
I see that it made you squirm, but it looks to me like, if other's comment on how it made THEM squirm, they're being unamerican???

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 07:44 AM
The bible has been proven time and time again to be a great record of history. The significance of what it says has true meaning in our world and in the upcoming events that will eventually end what we know as the earth.

If you don't believe that I feel sorry for you, when the end comes you will be one calling on the name of Jesus to save your sorry butt. good luck.

You sound like those crazy people holding up signs downtown.

The end is near... the end is near! Get right in the name of Jesus!!!

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

HAHAHA!!!!

You're the type that gives Christians a bad name.

stevieray
10-17-2004, 08:05 AM
You sound like those crazy people holding up signs downtown.

The end is near... the end is near! Get right in the name of Jesus!!!

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

HAHAHA!!!!

You're the type that gives Christians a bad name.

for something you don't believe in, it sure seems to get your attention pretty easily, the fact that you want to make fun of it doesn't make sense.

It's not your fault, some people just aren't chosen by God.

Besides, your last line sounds like a contradiction in terms. If you don't believe, how can you say it gives them a bad name? IYO, it's a fairy tale, so how can you think your opinion on something you don't believe is even valid?

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:10 AM
for something you don't believe in, it sure seems to get your attention pretty easily, the fact that you want to make fun of it doesn't make sense.

It's not your fault, some people just aren't chosen by God.

Besides, your last line sounds like a contradiction in terms. If you don't believe, how can you say it gives them a bad name? IYO, it's a fairy tale, so how can you think your opinion on something you don't believe is even valid?

We gotta another one over here!

Shouldn't you be in Church on a Sunday morning instead of judging people on an internet BB?

stevieray
10-17-2004, 08:23 AM
We gotta another one over here!

Shouldn't you be in Church on a Sunday morning instead of judging people on an internet BB?
You make a great victim.

I'm not judging you, I said what you are doing doesn't make sense, please don't project your guilt onto me.

Got another one? another what?

In church? My relationship is personal. interesting that you are "judging" me for not being somewhere you don't belierve is valid.

It'll be okay.

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:25 AM
You make a great victim.

I'm not judging you, I said what you are doing doesn't make sense, please don't project your guilt onto me.

Got another one? another what?

Oh, I have ZERO guilt about this. I am an Athiest [obviously]. I was just pointing out your religious hypocrisy.

stevieray
10-17-2004, 08:28 AM
Oh, I have ZERO guilt about this. I am an Athiest [obviously]. I was just pointing out your religious hypocrisy.

I'm not being hypocritical. you are. You're judging, then projecting it onto me.

I can't be hypocritical to something that doesn't exist, now can I? Seems to me you are playing both sides of the fence.

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:29 AM
I'm not being hypocritical. you are. You're judging, then projecting it onto me.

I can't be hypocritical to something that doesn't exist, now can I? Seems to me you are playing both sides of the fence.

In YOUR eyes it exists and you are judging me, so you ARE a hyprocite.

stevieray
10-17-2004, 08:32 AM
In YOUR eyes it exists and you are judging me, so you ARE a hyprocite.

:deevee:

All I said is you are contadicting yourself.

I your eyes it doesn't, so any opinion you have is moot.

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:34 AM
:deevee:

All I said is you are contadicting yourself.

Get a sack.

Maybe one of these days you'll learn to realize your religious hyprocisy. It something for you to think about. Especially on this holy day of yours.

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:36 AM
I must be getting you flustered because you keep replying to my posts and then changing them.

Step back, take a deep breath and relax.

stevieray
10-17-2004, 08:40 AM
Maybe one of these days you'll learn to realize your religious hyprocisy. It something for you to think about. Especially on this holy day of yours.

Well Cannibal you deflect back to me,while address points you've attempted to make.

yup.moot.

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:44 AM
Well Cannibal you deflect back to me,while address points you've attempted to make.

yup.moot.

Sorry but the "judging" standard doesn't apply to me because I am not following your religious tenants. See, I can judge you, and not be ruled a hypocrite because I don't follow your religion. It doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, it just means that I make no bones about it. You on the other hand, according to YOUR religion are not supposed to do that. It is a sin. So if you are judging people, especially on a Sunday morning when you should be in church, it makes you a hypocrite.

Understand now?

Baby Lee
10-17-2004, 08:49 AM
http://www.southpark.dsl.pipex.com/images/epiimgs/epi503/503-2.gif

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:50 AM
http://www.southpark.dsl.pipex.com/images/epiimgs/epi503/503-2.gif

I don't how that relates to this conversation, but it's pretty damn funny. ROFL

Baby Lee
10-17-2004, 08:52 AM
I don't how that relates to this conversation, but it's pretty damn funny. ROFL
This discussion has descended to . . .

Cripple Fight!!!

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:53 AM
This discussion has descended to . . .

Cripple Fight!!!

I guess if I have to be one of the "cripples", I am the one in the chair getting ready to run down the one on the crutches.

You ahole!

ROFL

Baby Lee
10-17-2004, 08:58 AM
I guess if I have to be one of the "cripples", I am the one in the chair getting ready to run down the one on the crutches.

You ahole!

ROFL
Poor choice. Everybody knows Jimmy pwns Timmy. ROFL ROFL

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 08:59 AM
Poor choice. Everybody knows Jimmy pwns Timmy. ROFL ROFL

Not in that pic, which it what I was referring to. ROFL

Baby Lee
10-17-2004, 09:00 AM
Not in that pic, which it what I was referring to. ROFL
Ohh, much to learn Cannibal-san. Jimmy's just drawin' him in.

Cannibal
10-17-2004, 09:01 AM
Ohh, much to learn Cannibal-san. Jimmy's just drawin' him in.

Touche' ROFL

unlurking
10-17-2004, 09:46 AM
Timmaaaayyyyyyy!!!!

Timmy and the Lords of the underworld ROCK!!!

KCWolfman
10-17-2004, 03:35 PM
Maybe one of these days you'll learn to realize your religious hyprocisy. It something for you to think about. Especially on this holy day of yours.
Why are Sundays holy?

KCWolfman
10-17-2004, 03:37 PM
Sorry but the "judging" standard doesn't apply to me because I am not following your religious tenants. See, I can judge you, and not be ruled a hypocrite because I don't follow your religion. It doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, it just means that I make no bones about it. You on the other hand, according to YOUR religion are not supposed to do that. It is a sin. So if you are judging people, especially on a Sunday morning when you should be in church, it makes you a hypocrite.

Understand now?
No.

#1. First of all, I (and a great many other people) attend Church at various times. There is no Christian tenant stating Sunday is THE day of worship.

#2. There is no "law" preventing "judging". If there were, then no Christian would support a law of any kind, would they? That is merely the twisted argument of the uninformed on a single quote from the New Testament. If you are going to use such ammunition, at least know what you are talking about.

Cochise
10-17-2004, 03:41 PM
No.

#1. First of all, I (and a great many other people) attend Church at various times. There is no Christian tenant stating Sunday is THE day of worship.

#2. There is no "law" preventing "judging". If there were, then no Christian would support a law of any kind, would they? That is merely the twisted argument of the uninformed on a single quote from the New Testament. If you are going to use such ammunition, at least know what you are talking about.

Ooops, he opened his mouth and removed all doubt.

Baby Lee
10-17-2004, 03:54 PM
#2. There is no "law" preventing "judging". If there were, then no Christian would support a law of any kind, would they? That is merely the twisted argument of the uninformed on a single quote from the New Testament. If you are going to use such ammunition, at least know what you are talking about.
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom .38 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how canst thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Cochise
10-17-2004, 04:02 PM
...

Darn, there is that inconvenient detail of context.

KCWolfman
10-17-2004, 04:05 PM
.
As Blee has shown the quote demonstrates that those who will judge, will be judged, not that they cannot.

And of course, according to Christian tenants, ALL will be judged.

Baby Lee
10-17-2004, 04:23 PM
As Blee has shown the quote demonstrates that those who will judge, will be judged, not that they cannot.

And of course, according to Christian tenants, ALL will be judged.
But the act of judging adds to your own judgment. It's a sinful act.
God doesn't say we can't kill either. Agency is funny that way.