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KCWolfman
10-17-2004, 07:44 PM
Good. I certainly hope so.

Kerry Warns of 'January' Surprise (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6267559/)
The Associated Press
Updated: 4:11 p.m. ET Oct. 17, 2004

WASHINGTON - Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry accused President Bush on Sunday of planning a surprise second-term effort to privatize Social Security and forecast a “disaster for America’s middle class.”

Republicans denied the charge as scare tactics with little more than two weeks remaining in a tight election. “It is just flat inaccurate,” said GOP chairman Ed Gillespie.

The clash erupted as the polls made the race for the White House a close one, seemingly tilting Bush’s way despite debates that bolstered his Democratic rival’s standing.

“God, there’s so many polls,” lamented the president’s brother, Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida. “I mean, it’s like you could just be obsessed with focusing on that rather than the reason to support somebody,” he said on ABC’s “This Week.”

After a campaign that has exposed deep differences between the two candidates over the war on terrorism, Iraq, the economy and more, Kerry and Bush hoped not


The president took a day off from campaigning. While his rival was in Ohio and Florida, Bush readied what aides called a major speech on terrorism for Monday in New Jersey, where millions live within sight of the terrorist-scarred lower Manhattan skyline.

With the White House as his campaign backdrop, the president-candidate also was signing a $33 billion measure for homeland security.

Increasingly, Republicans and Democrats alike were focusing on voter mobilization efforts in a dozen or so states that remained competitive.

Not surprisingly, Florida got special emphasis as Democrats sought to avenge the bitterly disputed recount that propelled Bush to the presidency in 2000.

Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards urged members of a black congregation at Greater Friendship Baptist Church in Daytona Beach to take advantage of early voting as soon as it opened on Monday.

“There’s no reason to wait till November the second,” said the North Carolina senator.

Policy shift on Haitian deportation
Gov. Bush said the White House was considering a policy change that could affect the state. The administration is considering a temporary halt in the deportation of Haitians fleeing their country because of recent severe hurricane damage, he said, an issue of importance to the state’s Haitian population. Kerry called for the step to be taken last week.

Kerry talked about Social Security from the pulpit of the Mt. Olivet Baptist Church in Columbus, Ohio, citing a report in The New York Times Magazine that quoted Bush as telling supporters that “privatizing Social Security” would be high on his second-term agenda.

He called it Bush’s “January surprise,” and said it may be good for “the wealthiest people and the well connected in America, but it’s a disaster for America’s middle class.”

Citing estimates from the Congressional Budget Office, Kerry said Bush’s plan would mean “benefit cuts for seniors of between 25 percent and 45 percent. That’s up to $500 less for food, for clothing, for the occasional gift for a grandchild,” he said, and vowed anew not to cut benefits or raise the retirement age if elected.

Bush has long advocated overhauling Social Security to allow younger workers the choice of putting a portion of their payroll taxes into private accounts.

Aides also have said that current Social Security beneficiaries and those approaching the age of eligibility would not be required to accept any changes in the current system.

But implicit in any such modification is the need either to replace or offset the money that will begin flowing to private accounts rather than traditional Social Security. Estimates run into the trillions of dollars over several years.

GOP data: ‘Privatize’ a dirty word
Purely in political terms, Republican survey data long ago discovered that voters recoil at the use of the word “privatize” in connection with either Social Security or Medicare.

With Bush taking a campaign day off, his surrogates leapt to his defense.

Gillespie said the account of Bush’s remarks was a “second-hand report and it is just flat inaccurate.” Appearing on CNN’s “Late Edition,” he also said it was based on “hearsay.” Gillespie said he often attends events such as the one cited, but added he couldn’t be certain whether he had been at the one featured in the story.

Bush’s campaign spokesman was more blunt.

“John Kerry’s misleading senior scare tactics are just another example of a candidate who will say anything to get elected,” said spokesman Steve Schmidt, “no matter how false his accusations or how contradictory they are with his record of repeatedly voting for higher taxes on Social Security.”


George is stating he is not doing so, this is one time I hope he is lying.

unlurking
10-17-2004, 07:50 PM
George is stating he is not doing so, this is one time I hope he is lying.

Agreed. This is the one issue I agree with Bush on. I actually wish he would have done it in his first term. Every year I wait I lose more money.

KCWolfman
10-17-2004, 07:52 PM
Agreed. This is the one issue I agree with Bush on. I actually wish he would have done it in his first term. Every year I wait I lose more money.
Amen, let me take that money and invest it on my own. Hell, even a standard bank account has a better return rate.

2bikemike
10-17-2004, 07:57 PM
Sooner or later some Pol is going to have to take the heat for converting Social Security. The system is going to die a slow agonizing death. I am 43 years old and have no hope of seeing a dime of what I put in. I know my kids are going to be squeezed to death by the burden of trying to keep this program afloat.

Its time to do something about it!

Cochise
10-17-2004, 07:59 PM
This is amusing. sKerry is now attacking Bush for things that haven't even happened yet. And all the while he responds to attacks on himself with "I have a plan..."

wazu
10-17-2004, 08:03 PM
I don't even know any Democrats that are against privatizing social security. I'm sure their out there, but I think Kerry is under the false impression that most Americans will think this is a bad thing.

WilliamTheIrish
10-17-2004, 08:11 PM
Man, I thought this was going to be about a some unseasonably warm weather in January.

RINGLEADER
10-17-2004, 08:16 PM
I don't even know any Democrats that are against privatizing social security. I'm sure their out there, but I think Kerry is under the false impression that most Americans will think this is a bad thing.

Kerry's argument is that Bush is going to cut current social security benefits to allow younger workers to set up private accounts. Kerry's running an ad that uses quotes that a New York Times writer admitted he had not heard (but attributed to Bush anyway) to say that Bush is going to cut benefits.

Of course I'm already on record against Bush just not coming out and saying we'll borrow the money to actually FIX social security (which is what his plan actually does). It's better for the recipient and, in the end, less expensive to just borrow the transition funds (especially now when the rates are historically low).

|Zach|
10-17-2004, 08:16 PM
This is amusing. sKerry is now attacking Bush for things that haven't even happened yet.
Yet another thing that the left does that is lame.

And on another note the right does it...and its still lame.

Cochise
10-17-2004, 08:21 PM
Yet another thing that the left does that is lame.

And on another note the right does it...and its still lame.

Just like the "bush is bringing back the draft" crap.

Just like the run-of-the-mill "bush wants to take insurance away from everyone and steal pills from old ladies".

Just make something up, and then hint that they are going to do it. That's apparently enough substantiation.

|Zach|
10-17-2004, 08:22 PM
Just like the "bush is bringing back the draft" crap.

Just like the run-of-the-mill "bush wants to take insurance away from everyone and steal pills from old ladies".

Just make something up, and then hint that they are going to do it. That's apparently enough substantiation.
I am not disagreeing with any of those points. All I am saying is that it goes down on both sides.

BroWhippendiddle
10-17-2004, 09:00 PM
The basic attack method of Kerry has been to accuse the president of "Planning" to do things that he knows will cause a stir. Why is it that he doesn't have to justify his comments?

|Zach|
10-17-2004, 09:03 PM
The basic attack method of Kerry has been to accuse the president of "Planning" to do things that he knows will cause a stir. Why is it that he doesn't have to justify his comments?
Kerry has done alot of that...and I dont like it. Yet, I dont understand how you folks keep shaping these comments and act like Bush hasn't...

Cochise
10-17-2004, 09:04 PM
Kerry has done alot of that...and I dont like it. Yet, I dont understand how you folks keep shaping these comments and act like Bush hasn't...

Which ones has Bush done?

|Zach|
10-17-2004, 09:15 PM
Which ones has Bush done?
Bush has stated many plans of Kerry's he feels will fail...selling fear...just like Kerry is doing with Bush...I am confused as to how this is not part of the game.

Both guys have plans...both guys are trying to convince the country the others will fail...

Bush said in the debates he doesnt beleve the country will be safer if Kerry is in office...

BroWhippendiddle
10-17-2004, 09:15 PM
Kerry has done alot of that...and I dont like it. Yet, I dont understand how you folks keep shaping these comments and act like Bush hasn't...

Other than mis-speaking can you be more specific.

|Zach|
10-17-2004, 09:17 PM
Other than mis-speaking can you be more specific.
Read below...

Are you trying to tell me Bush has not tried to show the American public that Kerry's plans won't work?

BroWhippendiddle
10-17-2004, 09:18 PM
Bush has stated many plans of Kerry's he feels will fail...selling fear...just like Kerry is doing with Bush...I am confused as to how this is not part of the game.

Both guys have plans...both guys are trying to convince the country the others will fail...

Bush said in the debates he doesnt beleve the country will be safer if Kerry is in office...

Each point you've made is a world apart from making up something. Indicating that you don't think something will work is totally different than saying that Kerry will reinstate the draft if elected or that he will totally disassemble the supreme court if elected.

unlurking
10-17-2004, 10:17 PM
Read below...

Are you trying to tell me Bush has not tried to show the American public that Kerry's plans won't work?
Cheney told Republican supporters at a town hall meeting in Des Moines that they needed to make "the right choice" in the November 2 election.

"If we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again -- that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States," Cheney said.

"And then we'll fall back into the pre-9/11 mindset, if you will, that in fact these terrorist attacks are just criminal acts and that we're not really at war. I think that would be a terrible mistake for us."

But I guess that doesn't count for some reason?

Inspector
10-17-2004, 11:03 PM
Amen, let me take that money and invest it on my own. Hell, even a standard bank account has a better return rate.

Man, you got that right!

When I think of all the $$ I have put into it.........

too depressing to think about.

BroWhippendiddle
10-18-2004, 03:29 AM
Quote: <HR SIZE=1>Cheney told Republican supporters at a town hall meeting in Des Moines that they needed to make "the right choice" in the November 2 election.

"If we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again -- that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States," Cheney said.

"And then we'll fall back into the pre-9/11 mindset, if you will, that in fact these terrorist attacks are just criminal acts and that we're not really at war. I think that would be a terrible mistake for us." <HR SIZE=1>

But I guess that doesn't count for some reason?

Just in case you haven't been paying attention, there is a chance that we will be attacked again regardless of who is elected.

Cheney did not lie about what could happen, he merely focused the results of gathered intelligence towards Kerry. I don't remember him saying that we would not be attacked if Bush were re-elected.