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View Full Version : Separate Realities of Bush and Kerry Supporters


DanT
10-23-2004, 05:14 PM
Here's the Press Release from a University of Maryland report on what they call the "separate realities" of Bush and Kerry supporters.

The poll results are available at [url]http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Qnnaire10_21_04.pdf[url]

http://www.pipa.org/

Bush Supporters Still Believe Iraq Had WMD or Major Program,
Supported al Qaeda

Agree with Kerry Supporters Bush Administration Still Saying This is the Case
Agree US Should Not Have Gone to War if No WMD or Support for al Qaeda

Bush Supporters Misperceive World Public as Not Opposed to Iraq War,
Favoring Bush Reelection


Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

These are some of the findings of a new study of the differing perceptions of Bush and Kerry supporters, conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes and Knowledge Networks, based on polls conducted in September and October.

Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, "One of the reasons that Bush supporters have these beliefs is that they perceive the Bush administration confirming them. Interestingly, this is one point on which Bush and Kerry supporters agree." Eighty-two percent of Bush supporters perceive the Bush administration as saying that Iraq had WMD (63%) or that Iraq had a major WMD program (19%). Likewise, 75% say that the Bush administration is saying Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda. Equally large majorities of Kerry supporters hear the Bush administration expressing these views--73% say the Bush administration is saying Iraq had WMD (11% a major program) and 74% that Iraq was substantially supporting al Qaeda.

Steven Kull adds, "Another reason that Bush supporters may hold to these beliefs is that they have not accepted the idea that it does not matter whether Iraq had WMD or supported al Qaeda. Here too they are in agreement with Kerry supporters." Asked whether the US should have gone to war with Iraq if US intelligence had concluded that Iraq was not making WMD or providing support to al Qaeda, 58% of Bush supporters said the US should not have, and 61% assume that in this case the President would not have. Kull continues, "To support the president and to accept that he took the US to war based on mistaken assumptions likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance, and leads Bush supporters to suppress awareness of unsettling information about prewar Iraq."


This tendency of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information extends to other realms as well. Despite an abundance of evidence--including polls conducted by Gallup International in 38 countries, and more recently by a consortium of leading newspapers in 10 major countries--only 31% of Bush supporters recognize that the majority of people in the world oppose the US having gone to war with Iraq. Forty-two percent assume that views are evenly divided, and 26% assume that the majority approves. Among Kerry supporters, 74% assume that the majority of the world is opposed.

Similarly, 57% of Bush supporters assume that the majority of people in the world would favor Bush's reelection; 33% assumed that views are evenly divided and only 9% assumed that Kerry would be preferred. A recent poll by GlobeScan and PIPA of 35 of the major countries around the world found that in 30, a majority or plurality favored Kerry, while in just 3 Bush was favored. On average, Kerry was preferred more than two to one.

Bush supporters also have numerous misperceptions about Bush's international policy positions. Majorities incorrectly assume that Bush supports multilateral approaches to various international issues--the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the treaty banning land mines (72%)--and for addressing the problem of global warming: 51% incorrectly assume he favors US participation in the Kyoto treaty. After he denounced the International Criminal Court in the debates, the perception that he favored it dropped from 66%, but still 53% continue to believe that he favors it. An overwhelming 74% incorrectly assumes that he favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements. In all these cases, majorities of Bush supporters favor the positions they impute to Bush. Kerry supporters are much more accurate in their perceptions of his positions on these issues.

"The roots of the Bush supporters' resistance to information," according to Steven Kull, "very likely lie in the traumatic experience of 9/11 and equally in the near pitch-perfect leadership that President Bush showed in its immediate wake. This appears to have created a powerful bond between Bush and his supporters--and an idealized image of the President that makes it difficult for his supporters to imagine that he could have made incorrect judgments before the war, that world public opinion could be critical of his policies or that the President could hold foreign policy positions that are at odds with his supporters."

The polls were conducted October 12-18 and September 3-7 and 8-12 with samples of 968, 798 and 959 respondents, respectively. Margins of error were 3.2 to 4% in the first and third surveys and 3.5% on September 3-7. The poll was fielded by Knowledge Networks using its nationwide panel, which is randomly selected from the entire adult population and subsequently provided internet access. For more information about this methodology, go to www.knowledgenetworks.com/ganp.


Funding for this research was provided by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.

MadProphetMargin
10-23-2004, 05:20 PM
You know how dumb the average person is?

By definition, half of them are dumber than THAT.

Ugly Duck
10-23-2004, 05:26 PM
72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD

75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda

63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found.

63% of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts,

55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission.

75% say that the Bush administration is saying Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.

This tendency of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information extends to other realms as well.

"The roots of the Bush supporters' resistance to information," according to Steven Kull, "very likely lie in the traumatic experience of 9/11 Can't we just take their voting licenses away if the Bush supporters cannot distinguish fantasy from reality? There must be some kinda clinical term for people that still continue to believe what BushCo says...

MadProphetMargin
10-23-2004, 05:28 PM
There must be some kinda clinical term for people that still continue to believe what BushCo says...

"Pre-rich" ROFL

Ugly Duck
10-23-2004, 05:31 PM
You know how dumb the average person is?

By definition, half of them are dumber than THAT.Wow.... now that is scary....

MadProphetMargin
10-23-2004, 05:33 PM
Wow.... now that is scary....

Welcome to the post-American century.

jettio
10-23-2004, 05:41 PM
Is it really news if the supporters of a politician believe the exact same things that he does? :hmmm:

memyselfI
10-23-2004, 05:54 PM
Can't we just take their voting licenses away if the Bush supporters cannot distinguish fantasy from reality? There must be some kinda clinical term for people that still continue to believe what BushCo says...


Hum, well this explains why yesterday Rush Limbaugh was doing his best dummy down and blasting 'intellectuals' and Kerry for being one of them...

all under the guise of condemning an article written by a man who's premise was Kerry was too intelligent to be elected. (an argument I've made before...)

Calcountry
10-23-2004, 05:56 PM
Here is my take on "separate" realities.

Republican bumps his head, "screams dammit, WTF"

Kerry supporter bumps his head, "Chit, pass the bong, i need to make the pain go away"

MadProphetMargin
10-23-2004, 05:57 PM
Hum, well this explains why yesterday Rush Limbaugh was doing his best dummy down and blasting 'intellectuals' and Kerry for being one of them...




Maybe he was spontaneously channelling William Jennings Bryant? ROFL

MadProphetMargin
10-23-2004, 05:59 PM
Here is my take on "separate" realities.

Republican bumps his head, "screams dammit, WTF"

Kerry supporter bumps his head, "Chit, pass the bong, i need to make the pain go away"

Democrat bumps his head: "We will now pass a law that will stop people from bumping their heads. With proper education, and a few generous grants to Berkeley, this scourge of the working man will be eliminated."

Republican bumps his head: "DAMN THAT CLINTON!"

the Talking Can
10-23-2004, 07:52 PM
Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.
--------------------------------------

now I understand....people really are that stupid

OldTownChief
10-23-2004, 08:02 PM
Democrat bumps his head: "We will now pass a law that will stop people from bumping their heads. With proper education, and a few generous grants to Berkeley, this scourge of the working man will be eliminated."

Republican bumps his head: "DAMN THAT CLINTON!"


ROFL

BIG_DADDY
10-23-2004, 08:26 PM
Can't we just take their voting licenses away if the Bush supporters cannot distinguish fantasy from reality? There must be some kinda clinical term for people that still continue to believe what BushCo says...

Too bad the Dems are incappable of offering us a real candidate. I would rather vote for Satan's Spawn than vote for Kerry. No I won't be voting for Bush either.

BIG_DADDY
10-23-2004, 08:26 PM
Democrat bumps his head: "We will now pass a law that will stop people from bumping their heads. With proper education, and a few generous grants to Berkeley, this scourge of the working man will be eliminated."

Republican bumps his head: "DAMN THAT CLINTON!"

ROFL

Baby Lee
10-23-2004, 09:23 PM
It's ironic, in light of it's apparent interest in in depth analysis and intelligence, that this report tackles a vast sea of issues with a fish tank skimmer.

Mr. Kotter
10-23-2004, 09:33 PM
It's ironic, in light of it's apparent interest in in depth analysis and intelligence, that this report tackles a vast sea of issues with a fish tank skimmer.

That's true...but damn DEEP for a Saturday night.... :banghead:

StcChief
10-23-2004, 10:32 PM
It's really the Sept. 10thers (sKerry and Dems)
why can't it be the way it was let's not stuff up the terrorist maybe they will leave us alone.

Sept 11thers (Bush and Reps)
accepting the world for what it is now. that the Terrorists really want to bring down Freedom and America.

Michael Michigan
10-24-2004, 12:15 AM
Funding for this research was provided by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund

You really didn't need to post anything other than this.

BIG_DADDY
10-24-2004, 01:25 AM
You really didn't need to post anything other than this.
ROFL :thumb: TRUE!!!

Taco John
10-24-2004, 02:08 AM
It's really the Sept. 10thers (sKerry and Dems)
why can't it be the way it was let's not stuff up the terrorist maybe they will leave us alone.

Sept 11thers (Bush and Reps)
accepting the world for what it is now. that the Terrorists really want to bring down Freedom and America.



That's beautiful... I love the seperation of American's here by not only party lines, but by national tradedy lines as well. "If you don't think Bush is a good President, then you can't have 9/11."

Go **** yourself.

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 02:42 AM
That's beautiful... I love the seperation of American's here by not only party lines, but by national tradedy lines as well. "If you don't think Bush is a good President, then you can't have 9/11."

Go **** yourself.
Maybe if you invited him to your neighbor's yard, you could change his mind?

Taco John
10-24-2004, 02:48 AM
Maybe if you invited him to your neighbor's yard, you could change his mind?



I'm going to need help with that one... I don't get it.

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 02:50 AM
I'm going to need help with that one... I don't get it.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101659&page=1

Taco John
10-24-2004, 02:53 AM
Yeah... hmmm... invited him over to the neighbors yard.... might change his mind... hmmm...

Nope. Still doesn't make sense. Doesn't make his shameless hoarding of a national tradgedy seem funny or any less abhorrent.

A valiant effort though.

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 02:57 AM
Yeah... hmmm... invited him over to the neighbors yard.... might change his mind... hmmm...

Nope. Still doesn't make sense. Doesn't make his shameless hoarding of a national tradgedy seem funny or any less abhorrent.

A valiant effort though.
Sorry, I forgot your sense of humor.


"He's taller so I am voting for him" - now that was classic :rolleyes:

Taco John
10-24-2004, 02:59 AM
"He's taller so I am voting for him" - now that was classic :rolleyes:


Who said that? Another swing and a miss?

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 03:03 AM
Who said that? Another swing and a miss?
I'll let you do your own search. Obviously your short term memory is severely impaired this evening.

Taco John
10-24-2004, 03:08 AM
I'll let you do your own search. Obviously your short term memory is severely impaired this evening.


Nah. Just my lie detector on. I never once made this quote:

"He's taller so I am voting for him"


I know what your drunk ass is trying to reference. But in typical fashion, you've mangled the truth into something that fits your twisted reality. It's a perfect example of what this thread is highlighting.

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 03:10 AM
Nah. Just my lie detector on. I never once made this quote:

"He's taller so I am voting for him"


I know what your drunk ass is trying to reference. But in typical fashion, you've mangled the truth into something that fits your twisted reality. It's a perfect example of what this thread is highlighting.
Hilarious. First of all I am not drunk, secondly, I never stated you made the statement. I stated for some reason you found the statement to be funny.

Now you add to the hilarity by blaming someone for lying when you can't even read with comprehension.

TJ, you honestly are a PR shoelicking jackass. If you are going to call someone a liar, at least have the proof to back it.

Taco John
10-24-2004, 03:17 AM
Hilarious. First of all I am not drunk, secondly, I never stated you made the statement. I stated for some reason you found the statement to be funny.

Now you add to the hilarity by blaming someone for lying when you can't even read with comprehension.

TJ, you honestly are a PR shoelicking jackass. If you are going to call someone a liar, at least have the proof to back it.



Well, that's the other problem... I never laughed at anyone who ever made that statement... Once again, that was your mangled interpretation of the statement.

You are a liar. Here's the proof (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=100235).

I asked him why [he would vote for Kerry], and he replied, "Because, I can tell if they were both captured by terrorists Kerry would keep telling them to go f*** themselves, and Bush would cry like a baby and tell them anything they wanted to know".


You are a TJ ball licking jackass. Thanks for that.

KCWolfman
10-24-2004, 03:20 AM
Well, that's the other problem... I never laughed at anyone who ever made that statement... Once again, that was your mangled interpretation of the statement.

You are a liar. Here's the proof (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=100235).






Hmmm, evidently you DID remember, contrary to your earlier post.

Here you go


Not only that... But he needs to confirm that the tall dude is Kerry, and that the other dude, the President, isn't...


Yeah, it's bullshit... But still kinda funny...

Taco John
10-24-2004, 03:24 AM
So now that we've both proved you wrong...

Taco John
10-24-2004, 03:27 AM
"He's taller so I am voting for him"

But seriously... Thanks for proving the point of this seperate reality thread. You sure you haven't been boozing a bit?

the Talking Can
10-24-2004, 06:43 AM
this explains things:

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW10-06-04.jpg

jcl-kcfan2
10-24-2004, 07:03 AM
That was a ball of raiders article.

Taco John
10-24-2004, 09:37 PM
this explains things:

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW10-06-04.jpg



Wow...

the Talking Can
10-24-2004, 09:55 PM
takes your breath away, doesn't it....

Boozer
10-25-2004, 05:33 AM
takes your breath away, doesn't it....

Yep, so far we've had a slam at TJ, a slam on the group funding it, and one criticism of the author for his superficial analysis of the poll results in his 900-word article.

patteeu
10-25-2004, 08:39 AM
Democrat bumps his head: "We will now pass a law that will stop people from bumping their heads. With proper education, and a few generous grants to Berkeley, this scourge of the working man will be eliminated."

Republican bumps his head: "DAMN THAT CLINTON!"

LMAO

Frankie
10-25-2004, 09:08 AM
I can't open
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/P...//www.pipa.org/

Does anyone else have problem with this link?

Mr. Kotter
10-25-2004, 09:19 AM
I can't open
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/P...//www.pipa.org/

Does anyone else have problem with this link?

Doesn't work for me either.

Mr. Kotter
10-25-2004, 09:21 AM
I can't open
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/P...//www.pipa.org/

Does anyone else have problem with this link?

Try this one instead:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Qnnaire10_21_04.pdf

Ugly Duck
10-25-2004, 03:05 PM
http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW10-06-04.jpgThey may be a buncha lying, incompetant, bumbling fools.... but at least they won't admit it! I think thats the BushCo campaign slogan....

Chief Henry
10-25-2004, 03:17 PM
Democrat bumps his head: "We will now pass a law that will stop people from bumping their heads. With proper education, and a few generous grants to Berkeley, this scourge of the working man will be eliminated."

Republican bumps his head: "DAMN THAT CLINTON!"



That was funny MPM... :clap:

KC Jones
10-25-2004, 03:21 PM
"The roots of the Bush supporters' resistance to information," according to Steven Kull, "very likely lie in the traumatic experience of 9/11 and equally in the near pitch-perfect leadership that President Bush showed in its immediate wake. This appears to have created a powerful bond between Bush and his supporters--and an idealized image of the President that makes it difficult for his supporters to imagine that he could have made incorrect judgments before the war, that world public opinion could be critical of his policies or that the President could hold foreign policy positions that are at odds with his supporters."

... or they are die hard republicans who will answer a poll in a way they think favors their choice for president.