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View Full Version : Bi-State II tax. Why should we vote yes or no?


BigRedChief
10-28-2004, 08:21 AM
I don't think this is going to pass. I've heard this on the local radio shows lately.
From the mayor of Overland Park. 63% of the money will come from Kansas counties but they will have no representation on the board that oversees the money. taxation without representaion... :hmmm: isn't this one of the reasons this country even exsists.

Jackson County Sports Commission has mishandled the money form the 1990's tax increase to fund the stadiums. Supposely in 2 years the fund will be broke and thereby the lease broken and the teams free to move if they so chose.

KC Royals are not against it but if this is the best they can do, they will take it. Wouldn't a downtown ball park be really cool?
I know KK is a shrill sometimes but he had an idea thaty I thought had some merit.
Why not take the money from this and build a state of the are downtown baseball stadium and give the Truman Sports Complex to Lamar Hunt. Lamar locks in for 25-30 years. He owns it and can do any renovations he so choses to do with the complex. Royals get a new downtown stadium full of suites. What do you guys think?

There would be another vote of some kind to keep the Royals or Chiefs from leaving if it should come to that. I think if we in the KC Metro area could spend our 1.3 billion better than this way. I'm in the no column. But will go to the yes column if its to keep the Chiefs or Royals in long term leases.

wutamess
10-28-2004, 08:39 AM
I'm thinking we're already ok in the arts areas. I don't want to be taxed to have another KC Art Institure or art museum or what ever.

Now if this was soley for the Chiefs/Royals I'd be for it but I don't care about our arts especially when we have Westport and and Plaza that are so rich in art tradition.

kc rush
10-28-2004, 08:52 AM
The problem with the arts component is that it doesn't spell out who will get the money (outside of construction costs for the Performing Arts Center). "Art Committees" in each community have the discretion to dole out the dollars as they see fit. I see that part of it as nothing but a giant slush fund.

I was already against Bi-State II, then I heard Mayor Eilert say that the five counties outside of Jackson County would be responsible for 60% of the total bill but would have no representation on how the money is spent on the sports complex. This was a poorly written plan and it needs to go back to the drawing board.

Phobia
10-28-2004, 10:02 AM
This was a poorly written plan and it needs to go back to the drawing board.

You're being far too kind. It's a HORRIBLE plan. It could easily be the worst plan in any stated not named California. It's certainly the worst prop for which I've ever voted.

Not only "no", but "HELL NO!!!!"

BigRedChief
10-28-2004, 10:39 AM
Holy chit batman. Phobia's on the "no" bandwagon. Train Wreck on the horizon?

morphius
10-28-2004, 10:48 AM
Holy chit batman. Phobia's on the "no" bandwagon. Train Wreck on the horizon?
Well, it has a hell of a slush fund added in, excessive administration costs and doesn't seem like there is an end date to the tax.

Cochise
10-28-2004, 10:52 AM
I could go either way. I know very little about it. Someone give me a concise, reasoned argument as to why I should vote for it or against it.

To give you a starting point, I am generally conservative and also am not big on public financing for sports, arts, etc. So I would lean 'no' to begin with.

Supporters, why should I vote for it? Detractors? Any specifics?

BigRedChief
10-28-2004, 10:55 AM
Well, it has a hell of a slush fund added in, excessive administration costs and doesn't seem like there is an end date to the tax.

How many taxes have been voted on and approved by voters that had an end date but when it came time to end the tax it continued anyway? more than I care to think about...:banghead:

Dr. Facebook Fever
10-28-2004, 11:03 AM
Bob Gretz says a "no" vote is a vote to make Kansas City into a minor league city instead of a major league city. Does he have a point? Is he full of shit? I don't live in KC so I don't really know the ins and outs of the issue.

memyselfI
10-28-2004, 11:04 AM
I don't think this is going to pass. I've heard this on the local radio shows lately.
From the mayor of Overland Park. 63% of the money will come from Kansas counties but they will have no representation on the board that oversees the money. taxation without representaion... :hmmm: isn't this one of the reasons this country even exsists.

Jackson County Sports Commission has mishandled the money form the 1990's tax increase to fund the stadiums. Supposely in 2 years the fund will be broke and thereby the lease broken and the teams free to move if they so chose.

KC Royals are not against it but if this is the best they can do, they will take it. Wouldn't a downtown ball park be really cool?
I know KK is a shrill sometimes but he had an idea thaty I thought had some merit.
Why not take the money from this and build a state of the are downtown baseball stadium and give the Truman Sports Complex to Lamar Hunt. Lamar locks in for 25-30 years. He owns it and can do any renovations he so choses to do with the complex. Royals get a new downtown stadium full of suites. What do you guys think?

There would be another vote of some kind to keep the Royals or Chiefs from leaving if it should come to that. I think if we in the KC Metro area could spend our 1.3 billion better than this way. I'm in the no column. But will go to the yes column if its to keep the Chiefs or Royals in long term leases.

Voted No and of the belief I'll be in the majority.

Cochise
10-28-2004, 11:09 AM
Voted No

That is a pretty strong argument for the "Yes" side.

Anyone from the "No" side have a rebuttal?

KHinz57
10-28-2004, 11:28 AM
Whatever will piss more people off is which way I'll vote. I'm assuming "No"?

ENDelt260
10-28-2004, 11:45 AM
If you vote against BS2, you're not a "real fan".

:D

KCTitus
10-28-2004, 11:54 AM
If you vote against BS2, you're not a "real fan".

:D


'true' fan, it's 'true' fan.

ENDelt260
10-28-2004, 11:55 AM
'true' fan, it's 'true' fan.
Bah

penguinz
10-28-2004, 11:55 AM
I'm thinking we're already ok in the arts areas. I don't want to be taxed to have another KC Art Institure or art museum or what ever.

Now if this was soley for the Chiefs/Royals I'd be for it but I don't care about our arts especially when we have Westport and and Plaza that are so rich in art tradition.

WTF? Do you live in a hole? KC's Arts areas are non-existent.

Lightning Rod
10-28-2004, 01:31 PM
Why do Kaufman Stadium and Arrowhead need exactly the same amount of money? Why do the Arts (what ever they are going to be) need exactly the same amount as the two stadiums combined? Though I have some issues of taking my tax money and sending it to another state, I could get behind something for the stadiums if it was a good plan. I don’t feel this qualifies as a good plan.
On a similar subject the racetrack could use more seats, anyone on the Missouri side wanna help pay for that?

Phobia
10-28-2004, 01:35 PM
I could go either way. I know very little about it. Someone give me a concise, reasoned argument as to why I should vote for it or against it.

To give you a starting point, I am generally conservative and also am not big on public financing for sports, arts, etc. So I would lean 'no' to begin with.

Supporters, why should I vote for it? Detractors? Any specifics?

The post above yours is as concise as it could possibly be.....

Morph did a good job of summing up my major concerns.

|Zach|
10-28-2004, 01:40 PM
I voted yes...

KingPriest2
10-28-2004, 01:51 PM
County Question 1
Arts | Sports


Half of the revenue from the cultural tax will be dedicated to a metropolitan arts and cultural fund. These funds will be expended in two categories.

• First is a $50 million contribution during the first four years of the tax to the construction of a world class performing arts center downtown. This will be matched by $254 million in other contributions, mostly from the private sector.

• The balance will be placed in a fund that is dispersed through competitive grants to local and regional arts organizations. No single institution or program is guaranteed money from this fund and each will be required to outline what the money is for, who will benefit from it and then be accountable for how it is spent.

• This fund will be divided into two parts, one that is available for organizations that serve the region, such as, the Carlsen Center, Starlight Theatre and the
Nelson-Atkins Museum; organizations and institutions that serve everyone in the
metropolitan area.


• The other half will be spent in each of the counties that have approved the cultural tax, based upon how much each has contributed. Included in the county portion is $50 million that will be dedicated to capital projects for arts facilities, half in Missouri and half in Kansas.

The process for awarding funds is open and accountable. All grant proposals will be reviewed by a citizen's advisory committee in each of the counties and by a regional citizen's advisory committee. The Kansas and Missouri Metropolitan Cultural District Commission, which is constituted under Missouri and Kansas laws and includes members from both states, will make the final funding decisions.
Download Recommended Arts Guidelines

KingPriest2
10-28-2004, 01:52 PM
County Question 1
Arts | Sports

Fifty percent of the revenue from this cultural tax, approximately $360 million, will be used exclusively to modernize Kauffman and Arrowhead stadiums at the Truman Sports Complex. The stadiums are publicly owned and like any other facilities that are 32 years old, major improvements to plumbing, electrical and mechanical systems are needed. The concourses must be expanded to meet today's safety and security needs; restrooms and concession stands need to be added. Some cities, like St. Louis, are tearing down their old stadiums and building new ones, but our conservative approach is more economical, yet still effective in bringing the facilities up to date. This will ensure that our teams stay here and as a result, that our city remains competitive.


The economic impact of organized sports in our community is tremendous. It generates well over $300 million every year, supporting more than 4,000 jobs in communities throughout the metropolitan area. But the stadiums mean more to our city. They are venues for other events as well. In fact, the biggest event in our city's history happens in October when the Billy Graham Crusade comes to Arrowhead Stadium. Well over 200,000 people are expected to attend this four day crusade.
As part of this modernization of the sports complex, our tenants, the Chiefs and Royals, will contribute an additional $65million to the project for improvements that include all costs to update the corporate suites in each stadium. The teams will also be liable for any construction cost overruns, and will extend their leases to the year 2030.
A Metropolitan Stadium Improvements Board, comprised of citizens from both states, will oversee funding of the stadium improvements.


Paid for by Think BIG Committee, Jack Craft, Pete Levi, Treasurers

KingPriest2
10-28-2004, 01:54 PM
Arts info 17 pages

http://www.votebig.org/pdf/guidelines.pdf

KingPriest2
10-28-2004, 01:55 PM
http://www.votebig.org/pdf/artshandout.pdf

KingPriest2
10-28-2004, 01:56 PM
http://www.votebig.org/pdf/sportsflyer.pdf

BigRedChief
10-30-2004, 07:34 AM
I think this is going down in flames. Press Releases that we may get a Super Bowl? Give me a break. Not a chance with out a roof. Lamar Hunt or not. Ain't gonna happen. Just another pr move by King Carl.

Sig Kauffman
10-30-2004, 10:20 AM
if you haven't already, take a look at the "how will you vote on the stadium issue" poll. I bumped it back to the top. Right now the YES people are leading...45-29 percent last I looked.