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View Full Version : Chiefs...Have or Have-not?


Holden McGroin
10-28-2004, 09:45 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3115354

DaWolf
10-28-2004, 09:51 AM
All the financial studies I've seen over the years seem to indicate we're somewhere in the middle of the pack, but have been slipping over the years, especially as the newer stadiums come into play.

Lat's just say that if the cap goes away, it would be bad news for teams like the Chiefs, because Snyder and Jones have much more revenue coming in and thus can afford to outspend other teams, and you lose the balance...

htismaqe
10-28-2004, 09:57 AM
The Chiefs will rapidly become a "have-not" without a new stadium (and the naming rights/luxury suites that come with it)...

Bob Dole
10-28-2004, 10:01 AM
The Chiefs will rapidly become a "have-not" without a new stadium (and the naming rights/luxury suites that come with it)...

Bob Dole doesn't understand that reasoning at all. Ignoring that Bob Dole doesn't WANT the name changed to Sprint Field or H&R Bloch Stadium.

Actually, Bob Dole doesn't understand most of the arguments used when talking about improvements to Arrowhead or building a new stadium.

Don't we have something like the 2nd highest seating capacity in the league? Isn't the stadium already paid for, so has a lower overhead than most? What is it that people are going to be spending money on <b>during a football game</b> that isn't there already?

Bob Dole sure as hell isn't going to pass up the tailgating experience to go sit in a restaurant inside the stadium and buy overpriced food. And how much annual revenue will luxury suites bring over the current suites?

KC Dan
10-28-2004, 10:01 AM
Good Lord, you could at least scan the front freakin' page to see if this has already been posted.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=102499

:shake:
He must've missed it while he was holdin' his groin!

Mark M
10-28-2004, 10:03 AM
Bob Dole doesn't understand that reasoning at all. Ignoring that Bob Dole doesn't WANT the name changed to Sprint Field or H&R Bloch Stadium.

Actually, Bob Dole doesn't understand most of the arguments used when talking about improvements to Arrowhead or building a new stadium.

Don't we have something like the 2nd highest seating capacity in the league? Isn't the stadium already paid for, so has a lower overhead than most? What is it that people are going to be spending money on during a football game that isn't there already?

Bob Dole sure as hell isn't going to pass up the tailgating experience to go sit in a restaurant inside the stadium and buy overpriced food.

I believe the thought of adding restaurant and other attractions is to generate revenue when there ISN'T a football game going on.

MM
~~:shrug:

Bob Dole
10-28-2004, 10:04 AM
I believe the thought of adding restaurant and other attractions is to generate revenue when there ISN'T a football game going on.

MM
~~:shrug:

And somehow those will draw people on a Tuesday night better than The Plaza?

Still doesn't make any sense to Bob Dole...

Dartgod
10-28-2004, 10:07 AM
Bob Dole sure as hell isn't going to pass up the tailgating experience to go sit in a restaurant inside the stadium and buy overpriced food. And how much annual revenue will luxury suites bring over the current suites?
It's for the out-of-towners that didn't read the weather report before coming to KC for a game and aren't lucky enough to borrow a muff from someone to keep from freezing their ass (or ears) off during said tailgating experience.

Clear now?

Mark M
10-28-2004, 10:10 AM
And somehow those will draw people on a Tuesday night better than The Plaza?

Still doesn't make any sense to Bob Dole...

Who knows?

I can't see how it will hurt. Any chance to earn more revenue is a good thing IMHO. And modifying Arrowhead is much, much, much cheaper than building new.

MM
~~:shrug:

Mark M
10-28-2004, 10:11 AM
It's for the out-of-towners that didn't read the weather report before coming to KC for a game and aren't lucky enough to borrow a muff from someone to keep from freezing their ass (or ears) off during said tailgating experience.

Clear now?

MM
~~ROFL

Holden McGroin
10-28-2004, 10:43 AM
Sorry about the re-post. I did take a quick look on the front page... did not see it. Not much time at work for surfing...

~~slipping back into lurker mode~~

Bob Dole
10-28-2004, 10:47 AM
It's for the out-of-towners that didn't read the weather report before coming to KC for a game and aren't lucky enough to borrow a muff from someone to keep from freezing their ass (or ears) off during said tailgating experience.

Clear now?

Bastard.

Bob Dole
10-28-2004, 10:50 AM
Who knows?

I can't see how it will hurt. Any chance to earn more revenue is a good thing IMHO. And modifying Arrowhead is much, much, much cheaper than building new.

MM
~~:shrug:

So what's the ROI period for the proposed renovations? That's more or less Bob Dole's point.

Someone mentioned a 25% revenue increase for the baseball stadium. Bob Dole calls shenanigans. Does having these things available suddenly mean that attendees have more disposable income?

Bob Dole doesn't give a shit what is added, Bob Dole isn't going to spend any more money at the game than he already does. Bob Dole would be willing to bet he's not alone.

Hydrae
10-28-2004, 11:15 AM
Sorry about the re-post. I did take a quick look on the front page... did not see it. Not much time at work for surfing...

~~slipping back into lurker mode~~


Don't go too far into lurker mode. And don't let the bullies get to you! ;) Besides, it must not have been too bad to have a second thread on the same topic, this one is getting it's own responses. I know that this is the first thread I have seen with this article (although I will go look for the other thread in a minute).

Anyway, I say thanks for the link! :thumb:

cdcox
10-28-2004, 11:20 AM
So what's the ROI period for the proposed renovations? That's more or less Bob Dole's point.

Someone mentioned a 25% revenue increase for the baseball stadium. Bob Dole calls shenanigans. Does having these things available suddenly mean that attendees have more disposable income?

Bob Dole doesn't give a shit what is added, Bob Dole isn't going to spend any more money at the game than he already does. Bob Dole would be willing to bet he's not alone.

It's not about getting another $20 out of Bob Dole. It's about getting the big bucks out of the people who lease the luxury boxes. Although no doubt, ticket prices will go up with the justification of the improvements made to the stadium, so maybe it is about getting another $20 out of Bob Dole.

Bob Dole
10-28-2004, 11:26 AM
It's not about getting another $20 out of Bob Dole. It's about getting the big bucks out of the people who lease the luxury boxes. Although no doubt, ticket prices will go up with the justification of the improvements made to the stadium, so maybe it is about getting another $20 out of Bob Dole.

Bob Dole understands that, and still doesn't see any way it justifies the expenditure.

Has anyone seen the figures for the additional number of suites and the price increase associated with the current ones?

cdcox
10-28-2004, 11:42 AM
Bob Dole understands that, and still doesn't see any way it justifies the expenditure.

Has anyone seen the figures for the additional number of suites and the price increase associated with the current ones?

Found this with a quick Google.

http://www.unc.edu/courses/2003fall/econ/006e/003/panthers/pantrev.htm

$30M (increasing 10 to 20% per year) is a good bit of change. I have no idea what the current boxes at Arrowhead generate. But I'm not sure the normal economics apply here since the initial expense is footed by tax payers and the owners collect all the profit. Of course Hunt and the Chiefs organization will be in favor of it.

That said, I do believe that the extra income does allow a team to make larger signing bonus offers since the business cash flow is better. Most owners, no matter how rich, aren't going to dig into their own pockets to field a winning team. These guys didn't get rich making bad business decisions.

Mark M
10-28-2004, 11:52 AM
Bob Dole doesn't give a shit what is added, Bob Dole isn't going to spend any more money at the game than he already does. Bob Dole would be willing to bet he's not alone.

Bob Dole is missing the point -- it's not about people at the game spending more money while there. It's about people spending time and money at the stadium when there isn't a game going on, much like Green Bay.

Or am I missing someting? :shrug:

Besides, you live in Northernbumblef*ck Texas ... you don't get to vote.

MM
~~:p

Dartgod
10-28-2004, 11:53 AM
Found this with a quick Google.

http://www.unc.edu/courses/2003fall/econ/006e/003/panthers/pantrev.htm

$30M (increasing 10 to 20% per year) is a good bit of change. I have no idea what the current boxes at Arrowhead generate. But I'm not sure the normal economics apply here since the initial expense is footed by tax payers and the owners collect all the profit. Of course Hunt and the Chiefs organization will be in favor of it.

That said, I do believe that the extra income does allow a team to make larger signing bonus offers since the business cash flow is better. Most owners, no matter how rich, aren't going to dig into their own pockets to field a winning team. These guys didn't get rich making bad business decisions.
Arrowhead currently has 80 luxury suites.
http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/afc/ArrowheadStadium.htm

I don't know how many they plan to increase it to, but say they double the number to 160 and increase the cost to lease them from $200G to $220G per year = approx. $20 Mill. increase in revenue.

I know these numbers are probably not very accurate, but you kind of get an idea of how substantially the dollars increase which could be used, as previously mentioned, as signing bonus money.

htismaqe
10-28-2004, 12:48 PM
Senator,

This article was written in 1998...can you imagine what it's like now?

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/1998/11/23/story3.html

The Chiefs have roughly 80 luxury boxes. If they generate $3.5M per year, that's about $437,500 per game. They have 79,000 seats IIRC. Let's assume $60 per seat per game. That's $4,740,000 per game in additional revenue.

Reliant Stadium has only 69500 seats, so at the same $60 per game, they'd be pulling down $300,000 less per game than the Chiefs on ticket sales. However, they have 221 luxury boxes. If they charge the same $5500 per game per suite as the Chiefs, they're pulling down a whopping $1,215,000 per game.

In essence, they're netting almost half a million dollars more, PER GAME, even though the have 10,000 less seats for "common folk".

htismaqe
10-28-2004, 12:56 PM
So what's the ROI period for the proposed renovations? That's more or less Bob Dole's point.

Someone mentioned a 25% revenue increase for the baseball stadium. Bob Dole calls shenanigans. Does having these things available suddenly mean that attendees have more disposable income?

Bob Dole doesn't give a shit what is added, Bob Dole isn't going to spend any more money at the game than he already does. Bob Dole would be willing to bet he's not alone.

I've said this a thousand times -- unfortunately John Q. Public (me and you) matters very little in the grand scheme of things.

To REALLY make money on a stadium, they want to get Joe Corporate and his cronies to fill up suites every weekend.

KCTitus
10-28-2004, 12:59 PM
Senator,

This article was written in 1998...can you imagine what it's like now?

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/1998/11/23/story3.html

The Chiefs have roughly 80 luxury boxes. If they generate $3.5M per year, that's about $437,500 per game. They have 79,000 seats IIRC. Let's assume $60 per seat per game. That's $4,740,000 per game in additional revenue.

Reliant Stadium has only 69500 seats, so at the same $60 per game, they'd be pulling down $300,000 less per game than the Chiefs on ticket sales. However, they have 221 luxury boxes. If they charge the same $5500 per game per suite as the Chiefs, they're pulling down a whopping $1,215,000 per game.

In essence, they're netting almost half a million dollars more, PER GAME, even though the have 10,000 less seats for "common folk".


The visiting team gets a percentage of the 'gate' at the stadiums, but the owner does not count the luxury boxes as part of the gate as I recall.

htismaqe
10-28-2004, 01:03 PM
The visiting team gets a percentage of the 'gate' at the stadiums, but the owner does not count the luxury boxes as part of the gate as I recall.

So the disparity is even greater.

It's not hard for me to see -- if we want to be able to compete in the modern game of football, we need money for signing bonuses. That money comes from luxury boxes.

KCTitus
10-28-2004, 01:29 PM
So the disparity is even greater.

It's not hard for me to see -- if we want to be able to compete in the modern game of football, we need money for signing bonuses. That money comes from luxury boxes.

Washington's luxury boxes total 280...

The cheapest one is $220,000 @ year.

Logical
10-28-2004, 08:35 PM
The Chiefs will rapidly become a "have-not" without a new stadium (and the naming rights/luxury suites that come with it)...
Actually with the econonics of the KC area even with a new stadium/more luxury suites and naming rights I do not see KC competing. In fact I do not see a viable ownership possibility in KC if when Lamar dies his son does not want to keep the team.

htismaqe
10-29-2004, 07:09 AM
Actually with the econonics of the KC area even with a new stadium/more luxury suites and naming rights I do not see KC competing.

That's quite possible. KC doesn't have near the number of "Joe Corporate's" as some other markets.

In fact I do not see a viable ownership possibility in KC if when Lamar dies his son does not want to keep the team.

Clark doesn't want to keep the team? I've never heard that before.