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View Full Version : "It's Voter Suppression, Period."


RINGLEADER
11-02-2004, 09:21 AM
The Dem talking point appears to be to talk voter suppression in every interview. I've watch three different channels in the past half hour and every single one of the Dem talking heads have accussed the GOP counterpart of trying to suppress the vote (in one case doing it even when the Republican on the show hadn't said anything remotely like what the Dem accussed).

Expect to hear a lot about voter suppression throughout the day. Horrible tales of being made to show identification or complaints that votes at the wrong place should be counted or (if it is close) a lot of talk about how you can't call states with all the provisional ballots that have yet to be counted (most of which won't end up being counted).

KCTitus
11-02-2004, 09:23 AM
It's really a shame that the rhetoric has got to this point and lawyers everywhere constesting everything.

Why do people want to destroy the election system? It seems so nefarious in it's intent.

SBK
11-02-2004, 10:27 AM
It's really a shame that the rhetoric has got to this point and lawyers everywhere constesting everything.

Why do people want to destroy the election system? It seems so nefarious in it's intent.

I won't mention who, but what's good for the country doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is that this particular party has power.

Taco John
11-02-2004, 10:32 AM
Hopefully John Kerry will show the leadership that George Bush refused to, and bring some confidence back into the system.

KCTitus
11-02-2004, 10:38 AM
Hopefully John Kerry will show the leadership that George Bush refused to, and bring some confidence back into the system.

I didnt realize that Bush was responsible for the actions of the DNC...that's an interesting concept.

Bob Dole
11-02-2004, 10:41 AM
Hopefully John Kerry will show the leadership that George Bush refused to, and bring some confidence back into the system.

So he's going to miss his first year in office because he's recovering from his head transplant?

alanm
11-02-2004, 11:06 AM
Hopefully John Kerry will show the leadership that George Bush refused to, and bring some confidence back into the system.Be sure to register early for your French language lessons. :thumb:

Calcountry
11-02-2004, 11:14 AM
My opinion is, if we are going to be accused of being whores, we might as well get dirty.

Hel'n
11-02-2004, 11:18 AM
My opinion is, if we are going to be accused of being whores, we might as well get dirty.

So true...

... people are so willing to put a label on you and expect you to be something you never were...

... so might as well make it come true...

the Talking Can
11-02-2004, 11:43 AM
what else can you call it?


Ohio:

ELECTION BOARD THROWS OUT 976 CHALLENGES BY REPUBLICAN PARTY


GOP Challenger Barbara Miller Could be Indicted on Felony Charges


AKRON, Ohio - The Summit County Board of Elections abruptly threw out 976 challenges of voter eligibility by the Republican Party today after Barbara Miller, the challenger, revealed that she did not have any personal information about the eligibility of any of the challenged voters.

Instead, Miller said that her challenges were based on a list of "undeliverable mail" given to her by the Republican Party. The list was based on a GOP mailing sent to registered voters throughout the state of Ohio.

After Miller presented this as her evidence, Russell Pry, Summit County Election Board member, told her that she could be indicted for signing a sworn challenge without any personal knowledge about the eligibility of the voters. Miller's reaction was to plead the Fifth Amendment.

Catherine Herold, the first voter challenged at the hearing, told the board that she believes that she was on the undeliverable list because she "refused the letter when she saw that it came from the Republican Party." She and many others expressed anger that their eligibility had been challenged - which could force them to vote by provisional ballot on Nov. 2.

"This is an outrage," Herold said. "I feel as if I am being called a liar for claiming to live at my address."

The Summit County Board of Elections has indicated that they plan to call in the Department of Justice to conduct a criminal investigation of the challenges.

Ugly Duck
11-02-2004, 11:57 AM
GOP Challenger Barbara Miller Could be Indicted on Felony Charges

AKRON, Ohio - The Summit County Board of Elections abruptly threw out 976 challenges of voter eligibility by the Republican Party today after Barbara Miller, the challenger, revealed that she did not have any personal information about the eligibility of any of the challenged voters.
It ain't actually voter supression... more like voter annoyance. Here's the way it works in Ohio..... Republican jack-booted thugs (read "challengers") hang out at the heavily Democratic (read "black") polling places and challenge every black person (read "probable Dem"). It slows up the process until very long lines cue out the door and around the block in the freezing Ohio rain. Voters get wet, cold and tired and voluntarily leave. So it ain't actually voter supression.... its just kinda voter discomfort...

Iowanian
11-02-2004, 12:02 PM
Votes that are NOT completed properly, and Absentee votes that aren't done correctly as directed should NOT count.

Its fraud prevention.

Its noone's fault but their own, if they haven't registered to vote, registered when they've moved to a new county/state, and don't fill out absentee forms correctly.

The stupidity of the common voter should not be suprising to anyone.

Amnorix
11-02-2004, 12:10 PM
Votes that are NOT completed properly, and Absentee votes that aren't done correctly as directed should NOT count.

Its fraud prevention.

Its noone's fault but their own, if they haven't registered to vote, registered when they've moved to a new county/state, and don't fill out absentee forms correctly.

The stupidity of the common voter should not be suprising to anyone.

Let's be clear here.

You're a Florida resident. You're a resident, a citizen, a hard working fellow, and you lived at the same address as four years ago. Therefore, sensibly, you go to a certain polling station, which was the correct one for you four years ago.

Because population growth is BOOMING in Florida, unbeknownst to you, you are in a new precinct, and you have a new polling station. You show up at the old place. They tell you you're at the wrong place. It's 7:30 after work, you haven't eaten. You CAN'T EVEN CAST A VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

Seriously, HTF does that make any sense at all? You went to teh wrong precinct, so maybe you shouldn't be able to vote for the local dogcatcher because it's the wrong precinct, but ANY vote anywhere in Florida should count for any Florida-wide or national candidate, if you're registered in Florida.

Cast a provisional ballot -- check it against the correct precinct records, and if you didn't vote twice, it should count. In a vaccuum, I think we'd all agree that makes sense.

Oh, right, sorry, minorities are more likely to make these kinds of mistakes, especially if there are language barriers involved, so fvck the Democrats. And since Florida has a Republican governor and Republican legislatures, and 27 contentious electoral votes....

KCWolfman
11-02-2004, 12:13 PM
It ain't actually voter supression... more like voter annoyance. Here's the way it works in Ohio..... Republican jack-booted thugs (read "challengers") hang out at the heavily Democratic (read "black") polling places and challenge every black person (read "probable Dem"). It slows up the process until very long lines cue out the door and around the block in the freezing Ohio rain. Voters get wet, cold and tired and voluntarily leave. So it ain't actually voter supression.... its just kinda voter discomfort...
Yeah, they would never put up for such "discomfort" any other time.

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to stand in line for more important things like rides at Six Flags, concerts, and sporting events.

KCWolfman
11-02-2004, 12:14 PM
Let's be clear here.

You're a Florida resident. You're a resident, a citizen, a hard working fellow, and you lived at the same address as four years ago. Therefore, sensibly, you go to a certain polling station, which was the correct one for you four years ago.

Because population growth is BOOMING in Florida, unbeknownst to you, you are in a new precinct, and you have a new polling station. You show up at the old place. They tell you you're at the wrong place. It's 7:30 after work, you haven't eaten. You CAN'T EVEN CAST A VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

Seriously, HTF does that make any sense at all? You went to teh wrong precinct, so maybe you shouldn't be able to vote for the local dogcatcher because it's the wrong precinct, but ANY vote anywhere in Florida should count for any Florida-wide or national candidate, if you're registered in Florida.

Cast a provisional ballot -- check it against the correct precinct records, and if you didn't vote twice, it should count. In a vaccuum, I think we'd all agree that makes sense.

Oh, right, sorry, minorities are more likely to make these kinds of mistakes, especially if there are language barriers involved, so fvck the Democrats. And since Florida has a Republican governor and Republican legislatures, and 27 contentious electoral votes....
Not true. Florida (like Missouri) has a business law allowing you to be late for work without repercussions for voting.

Also note, I find the "language barrier" excuse to be even more lame. You are telling me these people understand the words being spoken by candidates on a daily level so that they have a firm grip to vote for whom will be the best candidate for them, yet they cannot read a simple English document?

Amnorix
11-02-2004, 12:18 PM
Not true. Florida (like Missouri) has a business law allowing you to be late for work without repercussions for voting.

Re-read my example, as your "not true" has NO applicability whatsoever to anything I said. Whether there is a law that allows you to be late to work has no impact on my example.

Also note, I find the "language barrier" excuse to be even more lame. You are telling me these people understand the words being spoken by candidates on a daily level so that they have a firm grip to vote for whom will be the best candidate for them, yet they cannot read a simple English document?

You're avoiding the main point of the debate in favor of a red herring. Please riddle me this -- is the result to the example I posed equitable, fair or sensible? Why?

Iowanian
11-02-2004, 12:19 PM
AMX.

Do you want laws in place to protect and attempt to prevent election fraud?

Do you believe in personal accountability and responsibility?

If they haven't moved, they're going to be able to vote.

Its the people who move, don't register and now want to vote who are mad............

I can't say much more on the topic right now.

Polls are open for 14hrs in most states..........Absentee ballot requests have gone out by the millions and are downloadable from multiple websites on the net and available at local election official offices.......

Its 730, you're hungry................Polls are open another Hour and a half, it takes 3 minutes to get through a fast food drivethrough and you can eat in line.

NO ONE has a reason to NOT be able to vote.

I'm having a hard time sympathising with the poor, poor American voters who "can't vote" or don't want to wait in line a half hour, or wait an hour while being hungry...............In other countries, people walk miles to wait in line for hours, risking being shot or chopped up with machettes to vote.

Cry me a river.

Baby Lee
11-02-2004, 12:20 PM
Because population growth is BOOMING in Florida, unbeknownst to you, you are in a new precinct, and you have a new polling station. You show up at the old place. They tell you you're at the wrong place. It's 7:30 after work, you haven't eaten. You CAN'T EVEN CAST A VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
1. My polling place changed since the last time.
2. The new polling place was listed on the election notice.
3. I went there, instead of stupidly going to the old polling place.

It was difficult [.4 miles, versus .35 miles], but I managed.

KCWolfman
11-02-2004, 12:23 PM
Re-read my example, as your "not true" has NO applicability whatsoever to anything I said. Whether there is a law that allows you to be late to work has no impact on my example.



You're avoiding the main point of the debate in favor of a red herring. Please riddle me this -- is the result to the example I posed equitable, fair or sensible? Why?
If you can be late to work, you can go to the correct precinct and vote anyway.

The less scrutiny by humans of whether a ballot is valid or not, the better. Yes, the provisional ballot makes sense, but so does getting out of the polling station you are not to be voting in and going to the right one.

Amnorix
11-02-2004, 12:24 PM
AMX.

Do you want laws in place to protect and attempt to prevent election fraud?

Do you believe in personal accountability and responsibility?

If they haven't moved, they're going to be able to vote.

Its the people who move, don't register and now want to vote who are mad............

I can't say much more on the topic right now.

1. Yes. I'd be in favor of a national registration program and national mandated voting ballots for federal elections. State and local election ballots would be on whatever forms THEY chose.

But the voting MECHANISM method (whatever it is) should be federally mandated (and paid for). Chump change for voting integrity.

2. Yes.

3. If they haven't moved, and go to the wrong polling place, then their votes WILL BE THROWN OUT if they vote at the wrong precinct, even if they hand in provisional ballots. They MUST go over to the other precinct (and to the back of the line over there) to have their vote counted. So sayeth whatever the name of the Republican who replaced Katherine Harris.

4. You're wrong. My example was spot on accurate. It's the unfair result that you don't like to think about accepting, and well you should not.

Florida isn't Iowa. Some polling places have been destroyed/damaged by 4 huge hurricanes a few months ago. Tremendous population expansion has shifted precinct boundaries around all over the place, meaning many who voted at X in 2000 or '02 now must vote at Y in '04. There are NO mailings to tell people this.

Welcome to reality in 2004. It's not pretty.

Iowanian
11-02-2004, 12:24 PM
most provisional ballots are being cast because people didn't follow directions or did something STUPID.

Iowanian
11-02-2004, 12:25 PM
You have NO idea the difficulty in preparation of local ballots, let alone a "national" registry.

If people would just take care of their business, this wouldn't be an issue.

Amnorix
11-02-2004, 12:26 PM
1. My polling place changed since the last time.
2. The new polling place was listed on the election notice.
3. I went there, instead of stupidly going to the old polling place.

It was difficult [.4 miles, versus .35 miles], but I managed.

And, as I recall, you have approximately 19 years of education. English is your primary language, and you've received advanced training in reading every word of everything you get that looks remotely important. Congratulations, you are part of a subset of maybe 1% of the population.

I didn't even receive ANY election notice in any kind of formal sense.

Iowanian
11-02-2004, 12:28 PM
One can find out exactly where to vote with a simple phone call. period.

KCWolfman
11-02-2004, 12:31 PM
And, as I recall, you have approximately 19 years of education. English is your primary language, and you've received advanced training in reading every word of everything you get that looks remotely important. Congratulations, you are part of a subset of maybe 1% of the population.

I didn't even receive ANY election notice in any kind of formal sense.
Why is it a "red herring" when I point out major flaws in your Poor Foreigner can't read issue, yet you brandish it like some kind of protectant sword?

Baby Lee
11-02-2004, 12:34 PM
And, as I recall, you have approximately 19 years of education. English is your primary language, and you've received advanced training in reading every word of everything you get that looks remotely important. Congratulations, you are part of a subset of maybe 1% of the population.

I didn't even receive ANY election notice in any kind of formal sense.
I live in a definitively blue collar area, due south of Tower Grove Park, for those who are familar with the area [love my house, love my neighbors, love the miniscule house payment]. And despite the change in polling places, the place was packed with Bosnians, East Africans, urban youth, union carpenters, . . . and me at 6:00 am, sharp.

Duck Dog
11-02-2004, 12:42 PM
My voting place changed from 4 years ago. I guess I'm in that elite class of voter, that was smart enough to find out ahead of time where I was suppose to be to cast my vote.

If you have waited until today or until 7:30 tonight to find out where you are suppose to vote and are told too bad, your too late....well....then too bad. Don't blame it on others...errr...don't blame it on Republicans.

Ari Chi3fs
11-02-2004, 12:44 PM
quite frankly... you really dont need voter suppression... they dont use these tactics much anymore... dont need to. Diebold is in the house.

Amnorix
11-02-2004, 12:52 PM
most provisional ballots are being cast because people didn't follow directions or did something STUPID.
Be that as it may, if a registered voter of state X goes to a polling place in state X and wishes to vote on an official State X ballot for President A or B, I think anything the prevents that vote from counting is just procedural BS.

Duck Dog
11-02-2004, 12:53 PM
Be that as it may, if a registered voter of state X goes to a polling place in state X and wishes to vote on an official State X ballot for President A or B, I think anything the prevents that vote from counting is just procedural BS.


Like filling out your registration correctly and finding out ahead of time exactly where it is you are suppose to vote?

Amnorix
11-02-2004, 12:54 PM
Why is it a "red herring" when I point out major flaws in your Poor Foreigner can't read issue, yet you brandish it like some kind of protectant sword?

The language thing was a throw-away line. Assume the guy is white with English as his first language. Hell, he has a college degree.

Kindly answer the questions posed rather than pursuing my throw away line. Forget I even said it, if that's your preference, as it's tangential to my main statement.

Baby Lee
11-02-2004, 12:55 PM
Be that as it may, if a registered voter of state X goes to a polling place in state X and wishes to vote on an official State X ballot for President A or B, I think anything the prevents that vote from counting is just procedural BS.
I voted for my state rep, sheriff, and a couple of council persons on my ballot. Seems like X and Y might have different choices there. What, are you gonna have a "I'm just voting for President" affidavit?

KCWolfman
11-02-2004, 12:58 PM
The language thing was a throw-away line. Assume the guy is white with English as his first language. Hell, he has a college degree.

Kindly answer the questions posed rather than pursuing my throw away line. Forget I even said it, if that's your preference, as it's tangential to my main statement.
I did answer. Get off your lazy ass and go to the right polling station.

Iowanian
11-02-2004, 01:08 PM
Be that as it may, if a registered voter of state X goes to a polling place in state X and wishes to vote on an official State X ballot for President A or B, I think anything the prevents that vote from counting is just procedural BS.

...and I think anyone bitching about their vote not counting, when they've failed to take care of fundamental proceedure to prevent voter fraud is just partisan BS.

This is the exact attitude that makes me Positive I'll never be a democrat.