For the Moment, Mrs. Clinton Looks Like the Candidate to Beat

[Donger]

ROFL

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/nyregion/04hillary.html?ei=5006&en=dfc20f84753541d8&ex=1100235600&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

WASHINGTON, Nov. 3 - The defeat of John Kerry has left Hillary Rodham Clinton as one of the most powerful elected officials in the national Democratic Party - as well as the top prospect for the presidential nomination in 2008, according to party officials and strategists.

Many Democrats have been saying for months that a Kerry victory on Tuesday would have forced Mrs. Clinton to put off any plans she had to run for president in 2008 because Mr. Kerry would, as the incumbent, be in a strong position to win the party's nomination for a second term.

But now, even this soon after Mr. Kerry's loss, many Democrats in and out of Washington are mentioning Mrs. Clinton, the junior senator from New York, as the leading contender for the party's nomination in 2008, citing her immense popularity among Democrats, her fund-raising prowess and her formidable political operation, which was employed, unsuccessfully, in the Kerry presidential bid.

"Hillary now becomes a natural rallying point for the party," said Hank Sheinkopf, a Democratic consultant in New York. "Hillary has a national constituency, a top-tier political organization and shrewd political skills."

"The party will be looking to her," said Chris Lehane, who was a senior adviser to Mr. Kerry early in his campaign. "Hillary is uniquely positioned."

But that said, Democratic officials cautioned that it would be unwise to count out the bench of potential Democratic stars, including Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico, Gov. Tom Vilsack of Iowa and, of course, John Edwards, Mr. Kerry's running mate.

More than that, Mrs. Clinton's advisers privately maintained on Wednesday that she has a far bigger hurdle to surmount before she can seriously contemplate any presidential candidacy: her own re-election back home in New York in 2006. Her aides and other strategists argue that she must win her re-election decisively - not merely eke out a victory - because it would be futile for her to begin a national campaign with a shaky base of support back home.

"She knows that she has to keep her eye on the ball, and the ball is 2006," said one adviser to Mrs. Clinton who spoke on condition of anonymity. "She's methodical and meticulous, and so she is going to focus on what's in front of her right now."

As things stand, Mrs. Clinton has done a notable job enhancing her popularity among New Yorkers in the last four years, with 61 percent supporting her in September, compared with 38 percent in February 2001, according to a recent Quinnipiac University poll.

But at the same time, Mrs. Clinton and her advisers have had to contend with a stark fact of life for her: there are large numbers of voters who simply do not like her, no matter what she does.

Roughly one of three New York voters surveyed have told pollsters for Quinnipiac University that they have an unfavorable opinion of her. (This core of seemingly implacable critics is a major reason that some of her advisers had serious doubts about her presidential prospects this year.)

Mrs. Clinton's unfavorable ratings make her an enticing target for Republicans, who can count on the so-called Hillary haters to give momentum to any campaign they decide to mount against her. Indeed, some Democrats believe that one big-name Republican giving serious thought to challenging her in 2006 is Gov. George E. Pataki, a three-term incumbent who has made inroads among Democratic voters and who is up for re-election that year.

In discussing her viability as a candidate for national office, Mrs. Clinton's advisers note that over the last four years she has been able to turn so-called undecided voters into admirers. The number of people who have told Quinnipiac pollsters, for example, that they are undecided about her has dropped - to 7 percent in September from 33 percent in February 2001 - even as her approval numbers have climbed.

"Look, there's a core of people who are not going to vote for her, no matter what she does," said the Clinton adviser who asked not to be identified. "But in the last few years she has done a remarkable job of winning over swing voters."

Mrs. Clinton may face another obstacle if she decides to seek her party's nomination: The last thing the Democrats may be looking for right now is a politically polarizing Northeastern senator who is regarded as a liberal in many political quarters.

But her aides point out that since arriving in the Senate, Mrs. Clinton has staked out moderate-to-conservative positions on a host of issues, from welfare to the war in Iraq, much to the chagrin of her liberal supporters and the satisfaction of some Republicans.

Democrats say that the role Mrs. Clinton plays in national politics will hinge in large part on what President Bush does over the next four years. As perhaps the best-known Democrat in the Senate, she is naturally poised to become a spokeswoman for the party under a Republican administration that is expected to deal with a host of politically charged issues, like any Bush nominations to the Supreme Court.

"Hillary Clinton is the one who the party, the press and the public will look to to engage and respond to the Bush administration," said Mr. Lehane, the Democratic strategist.

But Mr. Richardson, the governor of New Mexico, says he thinks that the Democratic Party, in seeking to rebuild itself in the next few years, should also be looking outside Washington for its new generation of leaders.

"The power center of the party has to be shared," he said. "It can't be just Congressional Democrats or Senate Democrats. It has to include Democratic governors who are being elected in non-Democratic strongholds like the West and the South."

Finally, Democrats say that a danger for Mrs. Clinton is that if she is seen as the top contender at this point, her Democratic rivals have nearly four years to try to undercut her.

But it is not just Democrats who will look to undermine her if she widely perceived as a leading presidential contender, political analysts say. It is also Republicans, particularly those in New York, who are certainly going to argue during her re-election campaign in 2006 that she is simply using the state as a launching pad for her national ambitions.

"If she runs for re-election in New York, that will bring the inevitable question of whether she will serve out her full term in the Senate," said one person who is close to the Clintons.

[Donger]

Uh, yeah. Please move this sucker.

[Rain Man]

"Look, there's a core of people who are not going to vote for her, no matter what she does," said the Clinton adviser who asked not to be identified.


Count me in. She stands for everything I dislike about politics.

[Lzen]

ROFL, that would all but guarantee a Republican victory in 2008.

[mlyonsd]

Maybe Terry McAuliffe can be her running mate. They're from the same mold.

[Warrior5]

Why does this remind me of one of Voyager's draft prognostications the day after the draft ended?

[Soupnazi]

The candidate to beat?

Just lemme find my Louisville Slugger....

[Garcia Bronco]

I wouldn't vote for her because her husband has already been President. I don't like the fact that we have a son of a former President in the White House.

[Brando]

PLEASE don't let this happen! I'm pimping a ticket of Bill Richardson/Barak Obama for the next four years!

[Frankie]

I think she is quite a capable politician. But after seeing a campaign that 'turned' a war hero into a traitor and an AWOL drunk partier into a great military leader I'm not sure I'd like to give Karl Rove another smear victim. I love and respect Hillary but I think someone like Evan Bayh would be less cotroversial with the bible-clutching believe-everything voters. As a Kerry admirer, I hope he runs again, with this experience under his belt, but I fear he might be considered too old by then.

[Stinger]

I posted in another thread

I have been listening to airamerica for comedic value they were just talking about Hillary and Obama and they said and I quote:

"If middle America didn't vote for the handsome white, war hero. They are going to love the career white NY congress/business women and a black man."

:shake:

If this is the new attitude for the Democratic party you all will be in more trouble than you are now. They just don't get it.

IMO you need some new leadrship, and I expect a power struggle to rear its ugly head in the next year. Ted Kennedy and his faction vs a more moderate faction of the party. It will be intersting to see which they choose.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2062884#post2062884

[go bowe]

I think she is quite a capable politician. But after seeing a campaign that 'turned' a war hero into a traitor and an AWOL drunk partier into a great military leader I'm not sure I'd like to give Karl Rove another smear victim. I love and respect Hillary but I think someone like Evan Bayh would be less cotroversial with the bible-clutching believe-everything voters. As a Kerry admirer, I hope he runs again, with this experience under his belt, but I fear he might be considered too old by then.if the democrats hope to ever regain the white house, they better start fielding good candidates who don't have so much baggage...

personally, i'd like to see obama run (in about 12 or 16 years - he needs more political experience to be effective, imo)...

if he keeps giving voice to the mainstream politics of the democratic party, i think he will become a real force in american politics...

[BIG_DADDY]

I love and respect Hillary.

Moron, if she was shot tomorrow I would buy a bottle to celebrate.

[mmaddog]

I think she is quite a capable politician. But after seeing a campaign that 'turned' a war hero into a traitor and an AWOL drunk partier into a great military leader I'm not sure I'd like to give Karl Rove another smear victim. I love and respect Hillary but I think someone like Evan Bayh would be less cotroversial with the bible-clutching believe-everything voters. As a Kerry admirer, I hope he runs again, with this experience under his belt, but I fear he might be considered too old by then.

Damn that's a lot of bitterness in one post....the election results hurt you that bad?

Too bad you didn't learn a lesson in being a gracious loser from the man you say that you admire...

mmaddog
*******

[Frankie]

if the democrats hope to ever regain the white house, they better start fielding good candidates who don't have so much baggage...

personally, i'd like to see obama run (in about 12 or 16 years - he needs more political experience to be effective, imo)...

if he keeps giving voice to the mainstream politics of the democratic party, i think he will become a real force in american politics...

I consider John Kerry a man of integrity and a great candidate. The "baggage" was manufactured by the Rove propaganda machine. If they can do this to Kerry, is ANY candidate immune? (Let alone Hillary.)

[HC_Chief]

Holy crap... not only did they dig their own grave, they sat down in it and are now pulling the dirt in on top of themselves. :shake:

[memyselfI]

I don't know one Dem who is pushing for Hillary in 08. Sheesh, I'd support Caroline Kennedy before I'd ever support Hillary. Nancy Pelosi. Barbara Boxer...

lots of other women in the party who would deserve to run more than Hillary.

[Frankie]

I don't know one Dem who is pushing for Hillary in 08. Sheesh, I'd support Caroline Kennedy before I'd ever support Hillary. Nancy Pelosi. Barbara Boxer...

lots of other women in the party who would deserve to run more than Hillary.

Another rare disagreement here, Dennise. I think HC is very capable as a politician.

[Bwana]

I don't know one Dem who is pushing for Hillary in 08. Sheesh, I'd support Caroline Kennedy before I'd ever support Hillary. Nancy Pelosi. Barbara Boxer...

lots of other women in the party who would deserve to run more than Hillary.

I would like to see TED Kennedy run.

[memyselfI]

Another rare disagreement here, Dennise. I think HC is very capable as a politician.


Not so much disagreement...

I agree she is a 'very capable' politician. She is not, however, a winner...

and the Dems cannot afford to lose another election or two trying to figure out how to make/remake her as such.

Sorry, just being pragmatic.

[Stinger]

Damn that's a lot of bitterness in one post....the election results hurt you that bad?

Too bad you didn't learn a lesson in being a gracious loser from the man you say that you admire...

mmaddog
*******

Who are they going to balme this failed election on themselves? In 2000 their mantra was we were robbed of this election and that hatred has festered ever since.

[Demonpenz]

Moron, if she was shot tomorrow I would buy a bottle to celebrate.

she must have kicked a pitbul

[Lzen]

I think she is quite a capable politician. But after seeing a campaign that 'turned' a war hero into a traitor and an AWOL drunk partier into a great military leader I'm not sure I'd like to give Karl Rove another smear victim. I love and respect Hillary but I think someone like Evan Bayh would be less cotroversial with the bible-clutching believe-everything voters. As a Kerry admirer, I hope he runs again, with this experience under his belt, but I fear he might be considered too old by then.

Pathetic.
:rolleyes:
So just because some people believe in God and have certain morals that reflect that, you think they're dumb(believe anything)? You really should live on the east coast. You would fit right in with those elitists.

[ChiefsCountry]

Like it matters, Colin Powell or John McCain will win in 2008.

[Baby Lee]

Like it matters, Colin Powell or John McCain will win in 2008.
Vermiel in '08!!!

[Velvet_Jones]

I don't know about all this stuff but her azz looks like it's been beat with a bag of nickels.

Velvet

[Bob Dole]

I wouldn't vote for her because her husband has already been President. I don't like the fact that we have a son of a former President in the White House.

Yeah. It's hard to take him seriously after watching all those old press shots of little GW playing on the White House lawn.

[penchief]

Yeah. It's hard to take him seriously after watching all those old press shots of little GW playing on the White House lawn.

Word out of Washington is that Hillary Clinton has earned the respect of even her most conservative colleagues in the senate. From all reports, she has proven to just about everyone she works with that she is quite capable and very professional/respectful.

As far as all of your complaints about her go, just what has she done that was so terrible? To listen to some of you she's the reincarnation of Satan herself. Seriously, what has she done to deserve so much hatred?

The Rush Limbaughs and Karl Roves of the world could stir up enough contempt and hatred for the Good Lord, himself among the true believers. Just think what those two could have done with someone like Martin Luther King. Don't think they wouldn't have because they sure as hell would have.

They have already turned three war heroes into pieces of shit and they distorted the truth to do it. To steal another person's reputation through the use of lies is as dishonest as it gets. A common thief is better. People that would do that would do anything. That is what scares me when I look at the clear patterns of behavior exhibited by this administration. They will do anything to get what they want.

[MadProphetMargin]

Hillary won't do shit.

The Dems will run another pack of losers next time around.

FACT.

[penchief]

Word out of Washington is that Hillary Clinton has earned the respect of even her most conservative colleagues in the senate. From all reports, she has proven to just about everyone she works with that she is quite capable and very professional/respectful.

As far as all of your complaints about her go, just what has she done that was so terrible? To listen to some of you she's the reincarnation of Satan herself. Seriously, what has she done to deserve so much hatred?

The Rush Limbaughs and Karl Roves of the world could stir up enough contempt and hatred for the Good Lord, himself among the true believers. Just think what those two could have done with someone like Martin Luther King. Don't think they wouldn't have because they sure as hell would have.

They have already turned three war heroes into pieces of shit and they distorted the truth to do it. To steal another person's reputation through the use of lies is as dishonest as it gets. A common thief is better. People that would do that would do anything. That is what scares me when I look at the clear patterns of behavior exhibited by this administration. They will do anything to get what they want.

Bob_Dole,

I didn't mean to post this as a response to your comments. I thought I was just posting but I must have screwed up and hit "quote."

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole is old enough to remember the hellish health care agenda Billary tried to push. It matters not what she says publicly to try to make herself appear moderate, because her efforts as First Lady made it pretty clear where she stands.

Here's a tip for the Dems:

Stop trying to force Bob Dole to pay for your new social programs and pay more to support the ones that are already in place. Bob Dole pays quite enough tax now, thank you.

Spend your <b>own</b> dollars to support those things you feel are important, leave Bob Dole the ability to do the same, and we'll all be a lot less "divided" and better off as a society.

[penchief]

Bob Dole is old enough to remember the hellish health care agenda Billary tried to push. It matters not what she says publicly to try to make herself appear moderate, because her efforts as First Lady made it pretty clear where she stands.

Here's a tip for the Dems:

Stop trying to force Bob Dole to pay for your new social programs and pay more to support the ones that are already in place. Bob Dole pays quite enough tax now, thank you.

Spend your <b>own</b> dollars to support those things you feel are important, leave Bob Dole the ability to do the same, and we'll all be a lot less "divided" and better off as a society.

Does Bob_Dole believe that he should pay any taxes?

[MadProphetMargin]

Does Bob_Dole believe that he should pay any taxes?

Why should we? Personally, I feel no need to fund a military that is far larger than we need for legitimate defense purposes.

You want legions, pay for them out of your own pocket.

[Bob Dole]

Does Bob_Dole believe that he should pay any taxes?

Of course Bob Dole believes he should pay taxes. But when the tax bill paid each month exceeds Bob Dole's own expenditures for housing and transportation, it's quite enough thank you.

[2bikemike]

Like it matters, Colin Powell or John McCain will win in 2008.

I really find it unlikely that Powell would run. I read something by him a while back about how he thought it would be incredibly unfair to his family to go through the public grinder that is an election.

I also believe that he has lost a lot of his luster has a prime candidate.

[Hydrae]

Why should we? Personally, I feel no need to fund a military that is far larger than we need for legitimate defense purposes.

You want legions, pay for them out of your own pocket.


That argument is one that you have to take up with the powers in Congress, it is a completely Constitutional expenditure of our money.

But there is nothing in the Constitution to allow a lot of the things we do spend tax money on like welfare. There is no way you can convince me that a national health care is any different. I may have wanted Bush out of office but when it comes to fiscal policy I was not thrilled with Kerry by any means. :shake:

[Lbedrock1]

If Mrs Clinton runs and becomes the candidate I will vote republican. Im a conservative dem so the next candidate must be a more conservative person. Thats the reason we lost this time trying to be way to liberal on all things. There is a time for liberalism and a time for conservatism the problem with the left and the right is they think it is either one way or the other and that they never mix.

[Frankie]

Word out of Washington is that Hillary Clinton has earned the respect of even her most conservative colleagues in the senate. From all reports, she has proven to just about everyone she works with that she is quite capable and very professional/respectful.

As far as all of your complaints about her go, just what has she done that was so terrible? To listen to some of you she's the reincarnation of Satan herself. Seriously, what has she done to deserve so much hatred?

The Rush Limbaughs and Karl Roves of the world could stir up enough contempt and hatred for the Good Lord, himself among the true believers. Just think what those two could have done with someone like Martin Luther King. Don't think they wouldn't have because they sure as hell would have.

They have already turned three war heroes into pieces of shit and they distorted the truth to do it. To steal another person's reputation through the use of lies is as dishonest as it gets. A common thief is better. People that would do that would do anything. That is what scares me when I look at the clear patterns of behavior exhibited by this administration. They will do anything to get what they want.

ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT POST.... REP.
Your indictment of the Hillary-haters is exactly the thought I've always had. I bet 9 out of 10 of them don't know why they 'hate' Hillary.

[Baby Lee]

Word out of Washington is that Hillary Clinton has earned the respect of even her most conservative colleagues in the senate. From all reports, she has proven to just about everyone she works with that she is quite capable and very professional/respectful.

As far as all of your complaints about her go, just what has she done that was so terrible? To listen to some of you she's the reincarnation of Satan herself. Seriously, what has she done to deserve so much hatred?

The Rush Limbaughs and Karl Roves of the world could stir up enough contempt and hatred for the Good Lord, himself among the true believers. Just think what those two could have done with someone like Martin Luther King. Don't think they wouldn't have because they sure as hell would have.

They have already turned three war heroes into pieces of shit and they distorted the truth to do it. To steal another person's reputation through the use of lies is as dishonest as it gets. A common thief is better. People that would do that would do anything. That is what scares me when I look at the clear patterns of behavior exhibited by this administration. They will do anything to get what they want.
May I be so bold as to point out that you, on one hand;
cite some supposed good words some conservatives said about Hillary as proof that she is a great person,

and on the other;
cite less than flattering comments from some conservatives as proof that conservatives are psychotic liars.

If you want to pin 'Hillary hatred' to a few 'reasons,' I'd list;

taking her husband's non-majority election as an opportunity to try to steamroll a very liberal, widely unpopular universal healthcare initiative through,

telling [and in this case I'm subjectivizing the message] parents that 'the village' should be raising their kids.

blaming the troubles they'd brought by their actions on 'a vast right wing conspiracy'

and

throughout these developments speaking in a tone that embodied the disdain for the 'red state America' whose turnout cost Gore and Kerry the WH.

But then, maybe I'm just the 1 in 10. ;)

[whoman69]

It would be a grave mistake for the democrats for them to nominate someone who will mobilize the conservative votes against them.
I believe that Kerry had good ideas, but was terrible in presenting them. He allowed the Republican machine to present his agenda to America in their own slanted image, and left stupid statements out there that could be taken out of context. For example, he clearly won the first debate, but the longest memory of that debate was the global test remark.

[Frankie]

... and left stupid statements out there that could be taken out of context. For example, he clearly won the first debate, but the longest memory of that debate was the global test remark.
There was nothing, nothing, that any other candidate would have said that was not subject to shameful bastardization by the Rove propaganda machine. That machine was absolutely vicious, well oiled, well staffed and well financed by the militant evangelical right and the rest of the lobbies who wanted Bush to win 'at any cost.' During the course of a long campaign any candidate would have been grossly misquoted many times.

[mlyonsd]

There was nothing, nothing, that any other candidate would have said that was not subject to shameful bastardization by the Rove propaganda machine. That machine was absolutely vicious, well oiled, well staffed and the well financed by the militant evangelical right and the rest of the lobbies who wanted Bush to win 'at any cost.' During the course of a long campaign any candidate would have been grossly misquoted many times.

whoman is right, Kerry's bring terrorism back to the nuisance level cost him some votes without Rove even opening his mouth.

[penchief]

May I be so bold as to point out that you, on one hand;
cite some supposed good words some conservatives said about Hillary as proof that she is a great person,

and on the other;
cite less than flattering comments from some conservatives as proof that conservatives are psychotic liars.

If you want to pin 'Hillary hatred' to a few 'reasons,' I'd list;

taking her husband's non-majority election as an opportunity to try to steamroll a very liberal, widely unpopular universal healthcare initiative through,

telling [and in this case I'm subjectivizing the message] parents that 'the village' should be raising their kids.

blaming the troubles they'd brought by their actions on 'a vast right wing conspiracy'

and

throughout these developments speaking in a tone that embodied the disdain for the 'red state America' whose turnout cost Gore and Kerry the WH.

But then, maybe I'm just the 1 in 10. ;)

Excuse me but the "vast right-wing conspiricy" appears to have actually existed. Why else would an eight year witch hunt produce absolutely nothing but a lie that took place six years into the witch hunt?

Highly financed and extremely partisan, the witch hunt was real and it displayed so little respect for the office of the presidency that if I were a bona fide conservative I would feel shame for that behavior.

Please don't take this as my condoning Clinton's behavior because Clinton did more to harm the progressive movement and help the regressive movement by giving the hounds of hell the ammo to turn the tide of history, regardless of how pertinent that ammunition really was to effective governance and future prosperity.

I find it hard to condemn someone for wanting to help the less fortunate with access to better and more affordable health care. To me, that kind of mistake is more forgivable than the belief of this administration that corporate welfare is the lifeblood of American prosperity.

Also, a society that doesn't take an interest in the welfare of its youth is a lost society, IMO.

[Calcountry]

I think she is quite a capable politician. But after seeing a campaign that 'turned' a war hero into a traitor and an AWOL drunk partier into a great military leader I'm not sure I'd like to give Karl Rove another smear victim. I love and respect Hillary but I think someone like Evan Bayh would be less cotroversial with the bible-clutching believe-everything voters. As a Kerry admirer, I hope he runs again, with this experience under his belt, but I fear he might be considered too old by then.
W won't be on the ticket, so I am baffled by your references to Rove?

Plus, when are you going to learn that a Senator is automatically weak based on all the votes they have to take.

The only way Hillary is viable is if she resigns her Senate seat or runs for Governor of NY, or Massachusetts or something in the Blue zone.

Hey, she will run wherever she is the most viable, which is a reason why the bitch shouldn't run nationwide, the country is conservative.

[MadProphetMargin]

I don't see Hillary running in '08. Call it a hunch.

Maybe Russ Feingold.

[Loki]

There was nothing, nothing, that any other candidate would have said that was not subject to shameful bastardization by the Rove propaganda machine. That machine was absolutely vicious, well oiled, well staffed and well financed by the militant evangelical right and the rest of the lobbies who wanted Bush to win 'at any cost.' During the course of a long campaign any candidate would have been grossly misquoted many times.

jealous or something?

[Loki]

Mr. T. in '08 FOOL!

[MadProphetMargin]

Mr. T. in '08 FOOL!

http://www.studiomark.com/march-2003-images/mr-t-full-200-2.jpg
"I PITY THE FOOL THAT WANTS REGRESSIVE TAXATION!"

[BIG_DADDY]

I would actually pound the pavement for anyone running against her.


Let's see, Satan or Hillary? :hmmm: I'll take Satan please.

[Calcountry]

I would actually pound the pavement for anyone running against her.


Let's see, Satan or Hillary? :hmmm: I'll take Satan please.
Then you would vote for Hillary becuase that Bitch IS Satan incarnate.

ROFL

[mlyonsd]

Every night before going to sleep Karl Rove kneels next to his bed, clasps his hands together and prays, "Please, oh please, oh please let Hillary run in '08".

[Loki]

I would like to see TED Kennedy run.

errr ahhh...

i can't run, but i can swim.

[Calcountry]

Every night before going to sleep Karl Rove kneels next to his bed, clasps his hands together and prays, "Please, oh please, oh please let Hillary run in '08".
Do you think Rove would work for Hillary?

[Calcountry]

errr ahhh...

i can't run, but i can swim.
Chap a QUIT IT!!! ROFL