Does Anyone Else Find This Disturbing?

[Donger]

For much of Tuesday, campaign workers exuded confidence after surveys of voters leaving the polls showed Mr. Kerry with an edge over Mr. Bush. But as the night wore on, the real results told a different story.

The critical moment came at 12:41 a.m. Wednesday, when, shortly after Florida had been painted red for Mr. Bush, Fox News declared that Ohio - and, very likely, the presidency - was in Republican hands.

Howard Wolfson, a strategist, burst into the "boiler room" in Washington where the brain trust was huddled and said, "we have 30 seconds" to stop the other networks from following suit.

The campaign's pollster, Mark Mellman, and the renowned organizer Michael Whouley quickly dialed ABC, CBS, CNN and NBC - and all but the last refrained from calling the race through the night. Then Mr. Wolfson banged out a simple, two-line statement expressing confidence that Mr. Kerry would win Ohio once the remaining ballots were counted.

[MadProphetMargin]

Why is this disturbing?

[Donger]

Why is this disturbing?

Oh, I don't know. Personally, I find it disturbing that ABC, CBS and CNN did the Kerry campaign's bidding when requested.

[MadProphetMargin]

Oh, I don't know. Personally, I find it disturbing that ABC, CBS and CNN did the Kerry campaign's bidding when requested.


That's not exactly unique, in this election or any other.

Put yourself in the network's shoes. By refusing to call the state, they aren't pissing Bush off...hell, he was pretty certain he won.

Calling it, however, and then having it go to Kerry anyway is a good way to cut yourself off from press passes for 4 years.

For example, ask the Boston Globe how many white house press passes they've gotten since 2000.

[Metrolike]

The whole reason was so they could keep the viewers glued to their seats. If CNN had said that Bush did indeed win, why would people keep watching their station? One of the analysts on CNN panel kept saying that Bush won, but Wolf was like "We don't know that yet... stay wit us to find out".

[SECTION11]

Ratings

[PastorMikH]

The whole reason was so they could keep the viewers glued to their seats. If CNN had said that Bush did indeed win, why would people keep watching their station?




That was my take the other night as well.

[RINGLEADER]

The whole reason was so they could keep the viewers glued to their seats. If CNN had said that Bush did indeed win, why would people keep watching their station? One of the analysts on CNN panel kept saying that Bush won, but Wolf was like "We don't know that yet... stay wit us to find out".

Wolf was pretty even-keeled, but Judy Woodruff was having a meltdown about it...she was pretty much reading from the Dem talking points about outstanding votes (after Cuyahoga and Franklin counties had already been counted) and the provisional ballots totaling more than 250,000 (when there were really only 140,000 - most of which won't end up counting).

Not as bad as Susan Estrich on Fox, but Judy was pretty out there after Fox and NBC called it.

I do think it was funny how NBC and Fox wouldn't call NM or NV after both states had all their ballots in and both showed Bush up more than the provisional ballots that existed. Neither had a problem calling Ohio, but neither wanted to call the race either.

[penchief]

I find it disturbing. As someone that understands surveys and polls somewhat, it is unusual for so many to be so off. Yeah, they hit and miss but exit polls have always been pretty reliable. In fact, we count the votes every year and it's pretty safe to say that if they have ever missed badly before, those who conduct them would know about it even if the public doesn't. I can't explain why it happened but I'd want to be open to any possible scenarios.

I wonder if consolidating the vote collection process and limiting those who conduct exit polling is such a good idea. It could be exploited as another method of limiting sources of information and thereby controlling that information.

[Stinger]

Not as bad as Susan Estrich on Fox,

I would have paid money to be in the room when Fox called Ohio just to see the look on her face would have been priceless. I may have not made out of the room alive but it would have worth it. ROFL

[Stinger]

I find it disturbing. As someone that understands surveys and polls somewhat, it is unusual for so many to be so off. Yeah, they hit and miss but exit polls have always been pretty reliable. In fact, we count the votes every year and it's pretty safe to say that if they have ever missed badly before, those who conduct them would know about it even if the public doesn't. I can't explain why it happened but I'd want to be open to any possible scenarios.

I wonder if consolidating the vote collection process and limiting those who conduct exit polling is such a good idea. It could be exploited as another method of limiting sources of information and thereby controlling that information.

Take it for what it worth :shrug:

According to at least three sources, one inside the Kerry campaign, and two outside of it, but with ties to senior Kerry advisers, some of the "early polling numbers" were in fact direct reports from Kerry campaign or Democratic Party operatives on the ground in such critical states as Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, and Wisconsin. According to a Washington lobbyist with knowledge of the numbers, the numbers were packaged together so as to appear to be exit poll results. They were then scrubbed through several sources to land in the lap of sympathetic bloggers who these operatives believed would put the numbers up with little question.

Some of the numbers claimed to be exit polling data that showed Kerry with a 8-1 voter ratio. As soon as the numbers hit the Internet, panic set in.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7346

[Donger]

That's not exactly unique, in this election or any other.

Put yourself in the network's shoes. By refusing to call the state, they aren't pissing Bush off...hell, he was pretty certain he won.

Calling it, however, and then having it go to Kerry anyway is a good way to cut yourself off from press passes for 4 years.

For example, ask the Boston Globe how many white house press passes they've gotten since 2000.

I know that, at least historically, some ADMINISTRATIONS have called the press and requested that they keep their mouths shut about certain issues.

But, this was not an administration. This was a campaign.

The fact that CBS and CNN obeyed a directive from the Kerry campaign just adds fuel to the fire that certain parts of the MSM have become a willing mouthpiece for the Democrats. Can you imagine if the situation were reversed?

[Garcia Bronco]

Wolf was pretty even-keeled, but Judy Woodruff was having a meltdown about it...she was pretty much reading from the Dem talking points about outstanding votes (after Cuyahoga and Franklin counties had already been counted) and the provisional ballots totaling more than 250,000 (when there were really only 140,000 - most of which won't end up counting).

Not as bad as Susan Estrich on Fox, but Judy was pretty out there after Fox and NBC called it.

I do think it was funny how NBC and Fox wouldn't call NM or NV after both states had all their ballots in and both showed Bush up more than the provisional ballots that existed. Neither had a problem calling Ohio, but neither wanted to call the race either.


You can look at the Keep doubting george bush thread to see about what time each network called what...I kept track about all night. ABC got a bit screwed up at the end...but it's there.

[Taco John]

Oh, I don't know. Personally, I find it disturbing that ABC, CBS and CNN did the Kerry campaign's bidding when requested.



I think you, like most Americans, don't understand a thing about what goes on behind the scenes in news rooms... This was plain good PR. In the end it didn't matter, but given that there were still votes being counted, and the last race was so tight, the networks did what they ultimately thought was best for their own bottom line... Not anybody else's "bidding."

[Metrolike]

I know that, at least historically, some ADMINISTRATIONS have called the press and requested that they keep their mouths shut about certain issues.

But, this was not an administration. This was a campaign.

The fact that CBS and CNN obeyed a directive from the Kerry campaign just adds fuel to the fire that certain parts of the MSM have become a willing mouthpiece for the Democrats. Can you imagine if the situation were reversed?

As in Fox News?

[memyselfI]

No more disturbing than the rumor floating around that in OH and a few other states the electronic voting machines kept defaulting to George W. Bush when trying to exit out of the voting process regardless of whether you voted for him or not...

apparently a recount drive is being organized based on this allegation.

Not sure I think it's worth the hassle...but if they have proof then it might be. :hmmm:

[BushGaveMeApplePie]

Oh, I don't know. Personally, I find it disturbing that ABC, CBS and CNN did the Kerry campaign's bidding when requested.
You mean they refrained from calling the election prematurely just as Fox did this time and in 2000? Shame on the other networks for not jumping to conclusions!

[Donger]

You mean they refrained from calling the election prematurely just as Fox did this time and in 2000? Shame on the other networks for not jumping to conclusions!

Prematurely? You are aware that Bush won Ohio, right? You are aware that any objective person could look at the returns form Ohio and see that it was going to go for Bush, right?

[Donger]

As in Fox News?

Absolutely.

[ChiTown]

No more disturbing than the rumor floating around that in OH and a few other states the electronic voting machines kept defaulting to George W. Bush when trying to exit out of the voting process regardless of whether you voted for him or not...

apparently a recount drive is being organized based on this allegation.

Not sure I think it's worth the hassle...but if they have proof then it might be. :hmmm:


LET........................IT.................................GO!

geezushchristonapopsicklestick :rolleyes:

[Cochise]

Early exit polls are worthless. The samples are female-heavy and heavy in a number of other demographics. Working people often vote later in the day, as well.

I also found Estrich's twittering about the provisional ballots to be funny.

There ended up being about half of the number she said there was, not enough to change the outcome unless they went like 80% Kerry, and no one seemed to mention that what percent of them actually count... 20% or so?

[homey]

Or you could look at exit polls like the 2-bit right winged wonder boy Ron Silver. He said people were ashamed to admit they voted for Bush.

[Garcia Bronco]

I don't think Ohio had that many eVoting machines....most were paper ballots....with chads...according to Dan Rather and CNN...and NBC.

[htismaqe]

I don't think Ohio had that many eVoting machines....most where paper ballots....with chads...

But, but, but...they CHEATED!

[Cochise]

Or you could look at exit polls like the 2-bit right winged wonder boy Ron Silver. He said people were ashamed to admit they voted for Bush.

Too bad the exit polls aren't what really counts, huh?

Sorry you can't find a standard that shows your side winning.