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tk13
11-15-2004, 01:08 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/10183301.htm

Season's collapse complete

JOE POSNANSKI


NEW ORLEANS — In the moments after the loss, Dick Vermeil walked around the Kansas City Chiefs locker room and hugged every player he could find. Yes, this was it. The big hug. The season was over. And everybody in the place knew it.

The Chiefs' season ended in the Superdome in their ninth game.

“I feel,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said, “like I'm in a bad dream.”

Oh, it's no dream. Dreams don't have this many penalties. The Chiefs came to New Orleans with the season on the line. They faced the first in a long line of must-win games. They decided to beat the Christmas rush and lose immediately.

They did not just lose, either. No, they collapsed in front of a “sellout” crowd that, by my count, numbered about 1,293. The Chiefs committed 12 penalties, they turned over the ball four times, and they seemed to forget that Joe Horn no longer plays for the Chiefs.

They lost to a Saints team that really, really tried to lose the game first.

On the bright side, the gumbo was excellent.

“It's almost like we're finding ways to lose,” Chiefs quarterback Trent Green said.

Almost? No. It is exactly that. These Chiefs find ways to lose. Then, everybody knew the facts. The big question was: Why? Why did this Chiefs season, which began with bold Super Bowl dreams, expire in the Big Easy before Thanksgiving? Nobody had any answers to that riddle in the locker room on Sunday.

No, there were only hugs, a little pent-up frustration, some very fast dressing and an occasional dreamer talking about winning the last seven games to sneak into the playoffs.

Even Vermeil wasn't dreaming that big.

“The playoffs are over,” he said. He tried to qualify it later. But he got it right the first time. The Chiefs are 3-6, and they're not even a good 3-6. They have lost to Carolina, Houston, Tampa Bay and now New Orleans. Playoffs? Not exactly.

So, why did it happen? Well, the way it goes with losing football teams, the reason changes week to week. They lost to Carolina because they couldn't stop a backup running back, and they lost to Houston because of a ridiculous interception at the goal line, and they lost to Jacksonville because they could not pick up a key first down, and they lost to Tampa Bay because of a missed block and bad throw and a defense that made Brian Griese look like his dad.

Yes, it's hard to keep up.

Sunday, everyone expected the key to be how the Chiefs responded without their best player, Priest Holmes. At first glance, it looks as if they responded very well. Holmes' replacement, Derrick Blaylock, ran for 186 yards — a number Holmes has topped only once in his Chiefs career. Blaylock sliced through the Saints defense. The Chiefs racked up 497 yards of offense. That's good. The obvious problems were turnovers, penalties (including three personal fouls) a terrible timeout and poor defense.

“Even Priest, as great a player as he is, couldn't have changed that,” Chiefs fullback Tony Richardson said.

Well, actually, I disagree. I think Holmes' absence was the big factor, and I'll tell you why: The Chiefs scored only 20 points against the worst defense in the NFL. That simply would not have happened with Holmes in the game.

I'll give you an example: In the first quarter, the Chiefs had six chances from inside the Saints 10 — count 'em, six chances — to score a touchdown that would have given Kansas City a 14-0 lead. Score a touchdown there, and the game just might be over. The Chiefs did not score there. They settled for the field goal. The whole game changed.

The Chiefs would have scored the touchdown had Holmes been in the game.

How do I know? Because Priest Holmes is the greatest touchdown scorer in NFL history. For some reason, people take this for granted. To me, his record-setting 27 touchdowns last season should have been covered like the Mark McGwire/Barry Bonds home run chase (or at least Ichiro's hit chase). But, for some reason, nobody cares about touchdown records, and Holmes' incredible achievement was pretty much ignored.

Sunday, you could see why Holmes' ability to score touchdowns (he has 66 of them in the last two and a half seasons) should be cherished. It's hard to score touchdowns, even against bad defenses. The Chiefs only managed two touchdowns Sunday.

Yes, Blaylock was terrific. But it was just a different offense without Holmes. It was an offense that could move up and down the field. But it was not an offense that scored.

Of course, that's just my opinion. If you want a different reason why the Chiefs lost, well, you certainly do not have to go with the Priest Holmes theory. There are dozens of reasons to choose from. You could argue that they lost because every time a quarterback pump-fakes, the Chiefs safeties bite harder than a Greg Norman pitching wedge. You could argue that Johnnie Morton's fumble and pratfall were the big plays. There was that timeout the Chiefs wasted in the fourth quarter when they did not have enough defenders on the field (not that it made a difference; New Orleans scored on the next play even though by then the Chiefs had the full complement of 11).

Then you could argue that since the Chiefs are the most-penalized team in the conference, since their defense is every bit as bad as it was the last two seasons, since their offense suddenly has turnover problems and Dante Hall has not scored a touchdown and that Kansas City has been outscored 60-20 in the fourth quarter of their six losses, well, you could argue the Chiefs are just not a very good football team.

And maybe that's why the season is already over.

Ari Chi3fs
11-15-2004, 02:15 AM
last year in the first nine games, all the team did was find ways to win... this year... its the exact opposite.

Ultra Peanut
11-15-2004, 04:36 AM
Ohhhhhh no it's not! We can collapse much further than this!

Tribal Warfare
11-15-2004, 05:29 AM
All hail King Carl

Rausch
11-15-2004, 05:31 AM
Ohhhhhh no it's not! We can collapse much further than this!

My biggest fear is that we'll now win out since it doesn't matter...

the Talking Can
11-15-2004, 05:35 AM
My biggest fear is that we'll now win out since it doesn't matter...

let me calm your fears: we won't, we are truly a terrible team

ck_IN
11-15-2004, 09:40 AM
<i>In the moments after the loss, Dick Vermeil walked around the Kansas City Chiefs locker room and hugged every player he could find.</i>

This turns my stomache. In a nutshell this personifies everything I dislike about DV. This team had just choked away what should've been a cakewalk to one of the worst teams in the NFL. DV responds by hugging people!

Asses should've been kicked. Heads should've been taken off. If DV wants to be emotional, fine then at least show the proper emotion; Show some rightous anger. For the love of gawd don't go around hugging these losers like you just actually won something. They embarassed themselves, their team, and their city. Take out that locker room with a flamethrower!!!

But DV hugs them and probably pats them on the head while crying. For those who have never understood, this is the basis for my complete dislike of DV.

HC_Chief
11-15-2004, 09:42 AM
1996, take two.

Rain Man
11-15-2004, 09:44 AM
<i>In the moments after the loss, Dick Vermeil walked around the Kansas City Chiefs locker room and hugged every player he could find.</i>

This turns my stomache. In a nutshell this personifies everything I dislike about DV. This team had just choked away what should've been a cakewalk to one of the worst teams in the NFL. DV responds by hugging people!

Asses should've been kicked. Heads should've been taken off. If DV wants to be emotional, fine then at least show the proper emotion; Show some rightous anger. For the love of gawd don't go around hugging these losers like you just actually won something. They embarassed themselves, their team, and their city. Take out that locker room with a flamethrower!!!

But DV hugs them and probably pats them on the head while crying. For those who have never understood, this is the basis for my complete dislike of DV.


May I humbly offer some rep?

Spicy McHaggis
11-15-2004, 11:47 AM
We're the 2001-02 Bears. 13-3 to the frickin pits the next season. Except we had an O with no D in our previous campaign and they had they opposite. Maybe Jo Po is right. Maybe Priest would have won the game for us. That still doesn't change the fact that the chiefs shouldn't need Priest to beat the Ain'ts.

KCWolfman
11-15-2004, 11:58 AM
All hail King Carl
At the risk of being a Carlpologist, who do you credit for 13-3 last year? If not Carl, why blame him now. If Carl, why cite him for expecting the same results from a slightly improved team?

#1. I understand we sucked in FA this season, I blame Peterson there.

#2. I don't blame Peterson for stupid turnovers, bad field decisions, or horrid coaching mistakes.

This is an issue from the ground up, not a single person.

ck_IN
11-15-2004, 12:23 PM
<i>who do you credit for 13-3 last year?</i>

A good part of it is the league giving us the weakest shedule an NFL fan/coach/player could ask for.

Another part is the fact that the refs handed us at least two games when clipping stopped being a penalty on Hall returns.

Also we flat got lucky and every bounce went our way.

This has been a weak team for some time. It's just bubbling to the surface this year.

Sure-Oz
11-15-2004, 12:35 PM
My biggest fear is that we'll now win out since it doesn't matter...
That would be a miracle in itself, i wouldnt mind seeing it happen cause if we win out we are in i bet.

Demonpenz
11-15-2004, 12:37 PM
We were a WEAK 13-3 last year, one raiders game comes to mind when it took the chiefs converting a th and 4th and 15 to win

Coogs
11-15-2004, 12:49 PM
Personally, I would lay the "not scoring a TD in 6 plays from the 5" blame on AS, not Blaylock. Holmes would not have scored on either of the plays Blaylock ran in those 6 plays. We have seen Holmes not score on the sweep play before too. Sometimes there is just no where to run.

In the fourth quarter, gave it to Blaylock on consecutive plays, and he was in the endzone easy. The way Blaylock was carving up the Saints, he should have carried it all 6 times form the five. Probably would have only taken a couple though.

dilligaf
11-15-2004, 02:52 PM
For those who have never understood, this is the basis for my complete dislike of DV.[/QUOTE]
OHHH. So thats why?

Count Zarth
11-15-2004, 03:03 PM
This comes to mind...

Raiderhader
11-15-2004, 03:04 PM
Personally, I would lay the "not scoring a TD in 6 plays from the 5" blame on AS, not Blaylock. Holmes would not have scored on either of the plays Blaylock ran in those 6 plays. We have seen Holmes not score on the sweep play before too. Sometimes there is just no where to run.

In the fourth quarter, gave it to Blaylock on consecutive plays, and he was in the endzone easy. The way Blaylock was carving up the Saints, he should have carried it all 6 times form the five. Probably would have only taken a couple though.


I agree completely. And I would like to add for JoPo's sake that while Priest can change everything, we have five losses this season with him as a starter. Holmes is amazing, but not even he can over come everything we have faced this year.

Let's be realistic.

Dave Lane
11-15-2004, 10:09 PM
<i>In the moments after the loss, Dick Vermeil walked around the Kansas City Chiefs locker room and hugged every player he could find.</i>

This turns my stomache. In a nutshell this personifies everything I dislike about DV. This team had just choked away what should've been a cakewalk to one of the worst teams in the NFL. DV responds by hugging people!

Asses should've been kicked. Heads should've been taken off. If DV wants to be emotional, fine then at least show the proper emotion; Show some rightous anger. For the love of gawd don't go around hugging these losers like you just actually won something. They embarassed themselves, their team, and their city. Take out that locker room with a flamethrower!!!

But DV hugs them and probably pats them on the head while crying. For those who have never understood, this is the basis for my complete dislike of DV.

Whats the difference? Seasons over adios get a nice try pat on the back and play out the string.

Dave

Dave Lane
11-15-2004, 10:09 PM
1996, take two.

1996 1998 2004

Thats three...

Dave

Logical
11-15-2004, 10:20 PM
Personally, I would lay the "not scoring a TD in 6 plays from the 5" blame on AS, not Blaylock. Holmes would not have scored on either of the plays Blaylock ran in those 6 plays. We have seen Holmes not score on the sweep play before too. Sometimes there is just no where to run.

In the fourth quarter, gave it to Blaylock on consecutive plays, and he was in the endzone easy. The way Blaylock was carving up the Saints, he should have carried it all 6 times form the five. Probably would have only taken a couple though.

Also running him right instead of left was a big error. Once maybe not both times, you want him running to Roaf's side down there.

TRR
11-15-2004, 11:16 PM
In his paragraph about why we "lost" to those several teams he named. There's one word that describes why we lose every game...DEFENSE. It's sad when our defense holds a team to 27 points, and sports writers and KC fans alike think they, "did their job." It's pathetic.

There was even a fan on here that accused the KC offense of losing the Bucs game. Are you serious?? Let the Defense hold the opposing O to 10 maybe 14 points at least a couple of times. Then I will change me tune. As of right now, the offense feels they have to be flawless to win (which is exactly right) and that's when turnovers, and penalties start to happen. When you try to be perfect.

Andoverer
11-15-2004, 11:46 PM
There's something about even numbered years. The Chiefs uncannily are always horrible in even numbered years and this is no exception. How can that be explained??? :banghead:

tk13
11-15-2004, 11:50 PM
There's something about even numbered years. The Chiefs uncannily are always horrible in even numbered years and this is no exception. How can that be explained??? :banghead:
We're just an "odd" organization. Nyuk nyuk.

Chan93lx50
11-16-2004, 06:36 AM
Kind of makes you wonder how bad we will lose Monday night?

What is going to pick this team up to give a good effort against the champs?

I fear we have further to fall folks!

NaptownChief
11-16-2004, 06:45 AM
Kind of makes you wonder how bad we will lose Monday night?

What is going to pick this team up to give a good effort against the champs?

I fear we have further to fall folks!


I'm guessing they won't lose...Now that they have nothing to play for other than draft picks I am sure they will F that up too by winning games like this that they shouldn't.


Any other coach and GM would be on the hotseat for a collapse like this but not here in KC....oh no my friend we accept good quality losing like no other.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 06:45 AM
Kind of makes you wonder how bad we will lose Monday night?

What is going to pick this team up to give a good effort against the champs?

I fear we have further to fall folks!

I felt the same way with Atlanta coming into town after the 1-3 start. Do I expect a repeat of that game? No, but you never know.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 06:46 AM
Good to see Nap stop by after losing his KB during last season...

NewChief
11-16-2004, 06:47 AM
Kind of makes you wonder how bad we will lose Monday night?

What is going to pick this team up to give a good effort against the champs?

I fear we have further to fall folks!


No no. I fully expect us to win on Monday. That will then allow the Planet to get its collective hopes raised only to be dashed miserably once again the following week.

Coogs
11-16-2004, 07:44 AM
Also running him right instead of left was a big error. Once maybe not both times, you want him running to Roaf's side down there.

I'd go for that to a degree. when he scored in the forth quarter, he went between Weigman (sp) and Shields. Scored easily. The two runs in the first half were both out in Welbourns territory. :shake:

TEX
11-16-2004, 08:39 AM
[QUOTE=Andoverer]There's something about even numbered years. The Chiefs uncannily are always horrible in even numbered years and this is no exception. How can that be explained??? :banghead:[/QUOTE

The schedule is often tougher after 1st place finishes? :hmmm:

KCJohnny
11-16-2004, 09:10 PM
I call upon all sane minds to compare the Almighty Dick Vermiel with Marty Schottenheimer's first four years in KC. Vermiel inherited a better team, did worse with it, and is hailed as the ANSWER. Marty did not achieve the apex of NFL glory, but his record in his first four years in KC absolutely embarasses DV. A single winning season in four years is not an improvement over the HC who won more games in the 1990s than any team except Dallas and Buffalo.

Iowanian
11-16-2004, 09:16 PM
At least now I won't feel guilty as I hunt deer through the Middle of December and Tape the games.


The Chiefs will always be my Bad Girlfriend. The Tramp isn't happy without my heart aching.

Inspector
11-16-2004, 09:17 PM
I call upon all sane minds to compare the Almighty Dick Vermiel with Marty Schottenheimer's first four years in KC. Vermiel inherited a better team, did worse with it, and is hailed as the ANSWER. Marty did not achieve the apex of NFL glory, but his record in his first four years in KC absolutely embarasses DV. A single winning season in four years is not an improvement over the HC who won more games in the 1990s than any team except Dallas and Buffalo.

So, you like this Marty guy, huh?

KCJohnny
11-16-2004, 09:18 PM
So, you like this Marty guy, huh?
Address the argument, if you dare.

Iowanian
11-16-2004, 09:20 PM
Its alot the Same KCJ.........Only Donnell Bennet is the defense now.



Vermeil obviously should have stopped the Group hugs and Cuddle time for Team bonding, and started Treating this team like they were All Punters.


The Entire Team could use a couple Quarts of Gunther in their arse for the way they've played.


New England is going to absolutely Embarrass the fanbase of KC Monday night.

KCJohnny
11-16-2004, 09:23 PM
Its alot the Same KCJ.........Only Donnell Bennet is the defense now.



Vermeil obviously should have stopped the Group hugs and Cuddle time for Team bonding, and started Treating this team like they were All Punters.

No facts, no W-L records, no stats, only snide remarks about Bennett.

I'm hardly moved by this line of reasoning. The fact is, I am right, its painful, and that meakes you not like me.

Oh well! :)

Inspector
11-16-2004, 09:28 PM
Address the argument, if you dare.

Not into arguments. Not even sure what the argument is.

It's all good. You make good points about Marty.

I was just funnin with ya cause I know you really admire Marty.

Didn't they used to call you SDJohnny before you went to fight a war?

Anyway, it's good to see you posting again. I was a devout lurker back before you went away for awhile.

BTW, welcome back man!!

Iowanian
11-16-2004, 09:28 PM
I said nothing of the kind.

Records? Its really a tossup, with an advantage to Marty. Both Squandered 13-3 seasons, with superstars on one side of the ball, and scrubs on the other.

KCJohnny
11-16-2004, 09:34 PM
OK, everybody run for cover.
Marty inherited a 4-12 team, had them in the playoffs in his second season, went to the playoffs at least twice in his first four seasons.
DV inherited a 7-9 team that he reduced to 6-10. After 4 years, barring the greatest comeback in sports history, DV will miss the playoffs 3 times in 4 years after inheriting a team that wom more games in the 90s than all but 2 teams.

KCJ = stupid Martyball supporter with more Ws than DV.

That's for all you Planeteers who repeated the mantra of "how many super bowls has Marty won" to me over the past 5 years.

Where's DV's Super Bowl? And ONE playoff appearance in FOUR years????? :rolleyes:

morphius
11-16-2004, 09:46 PM
OK, everybody run for cover.
Marty inherited a 4-12 team, had them in the playoffs in his second season, went to the playoffs at least twice in his first four seasons.
DV inherited a 7-9 team that he reduced to 6-10. After 4 years, barring the greatest comeback in sports history, DV will miss the playoffs 3 times in 4 years after inheriting a team that wom more games in the 90s than all but 2 teams.

KCJ = stupid Martyball supporter with more Ws than DV.

That's for all you Planeteers who repeated the mantra of "how many super bowls has Marty won" to me over the past 5 years.

Where's DV's Super Bowl? And ONE playoff appearance in FOUR years????? :rolleyes:
How many playoff's has Marty had in the last few tries? Didn't he have the NUMBER ONE pick in the league last year, that means he had the worst team in the NFL last year. But maybe I'm missing his genious after he picked a QB in the first round, only to tradce him for a QB that he expected to start and ended up on the bench. The early 90's were a different time, the league wasn't as close as it is now.

Plus I believe you admitted to being wrong about DV last year, so do we believe you were wrong then, or wrong again now?

alanm
11-16-2004, 11:28 PM
1996, take two.1998 Take 3:banghead::cuss:

KCJohnny
11-17-2004, 03:21 AM
How many playoff's has Marty had in the last few tries? Didn't he have the NUMBER ONE pick in the league last year, that means he had the worst team in the NFL last year. But maybe I'm missing his genious after he picked a QB in the first round, only to tradce him for a QB that he expected to start and ended up on the bench. The early 90's were a different time, the league wasn't as close as it is now.

Plus I believe you admitted to being wrong about DV last year, so do we believe you were wrong then, or wrong again now?

DV is an outstanding career coach. He is not an improvement over Schottenheimer or even Cunningham by the W-L record. His own quote is in my sig line. Have a nice day. :)

KCTitus
11-17-2004, 06:11 AM
OK, everybody run for cover.
Marty inherited a 4-12 team, had them in the playoffs in his second season, went to the playoffs at least twice in his first four seasons.
DV inherited a 7-9 team that he reduced to 6-10. After 4 years, barring the greatest comeback in sports history, DV will miss the playoffs 3 times in 4 years after inheriting a team that wom more games in the 90s than all but 2 teams.

KCJ = stupid Martyball supporter with more Ws than DV.

That's for all you Planeteers who repeated the mantra of "how many super bowls has Marty won" to me over the past 5 years.

Where's DV's Super Bowl? And ONE playoff appearance in FOUR years????? :rolleyes:

It's good to see Proctor find his KB...Oddly, he wasnt around last year when KC started out 9-0.

Weak.

KCJohnny
11-17-2004, 10:08 AM
It's good to see Proctor find his KB...Oddly, he wasnt around last year when KC started out 9-0.

Weak.

Proctor was in Baghdad last fall fighting insurgents with the 82nd Airborne.

KCTitus
11-17-2004, 10:10 AM
Proctor was in Baghdad last fall fighting insurgents with the 82nd Airborne.

I was under the impression that you returned sometime during the season. Fortunately, the search function is disabled.

It's good to have the gang of geniouses (chiefsplanet spelling) back at any rate.

Raiderhader
11-17-2004, 10:42 AM
Johnny, really now, how long are you going to continue to make this argument? Its done with, over, finished. Marty left the Chiefs of his own accord. Why continue to rehash a pointless argument the way Denise and some others did over Gannon? Let it go, move on, quit living in the past. Let's contrate on the here and now.