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View Full Version : Offensive Incompetance - Its a fact!


svuba
11-15-2004, 10:20 AM
I moved this from another Thread, so sorry if you saw it on the Defense thread first.

Chiefs Offensive Performance Yesterday:
511 yards ....... 20 points
178 yards per TD - - Running around in circles?
The field is only 100 Yards long.

The colts Today had 398 Total Yards & 49 Points.
56 yards per TD. - - Efficiency & Execution

The Chiefs are structured similar to the Colts (High Power Offense - Low power Defense.) In order to be successful the Chiefs Must stop squandering Opportunities.

We are not the 85 Bears People....... Expecting the Defense win games for us has once again proven to be a foolish notion. This Defense is Not going to hold many teams Under 20 Points, so the Offense Must score MORE than 20 every game to have a chance to Win.

EXPECTING the Defense to hold teams to 19 Points While the Pro-Bowl Laden Offense Runs around like Girls for 511 yard & scores 20 points is ridiculous.

The offense has squandered WAY too many opportunities this year, and consistently plays DOWN to level of competition.



Just for fun I calculated the "Offensive Efficiency" in Yards Gained per Touchdown for all of the winning teams this week:

NO = 96
Cincinati =130
Arizona = 70
Pittsburg = 87
Baltimore = 91
Jags = 126
Atlanta = 94
STL = 140
Panthers = 67
Chicago = 64
Green Bay = 91
NE = 103

KC = 178

So No team that won this week squandered more opportunities than the Chiefs. Which means regardless of the Defensive performance this week no NFL team was able to throw that many opportunities away & still be victorious.

jspchief
11-15-2004, 10:26 AM
Hrrmmm, I wonder if it had anything to do with us having a pro-bowl RB and our most effective scorer on the bench.

Lzen
11-15-2004, 10:37 AM
Hrrmmm, I wonder if it had anything to do with us having a pro-bowl RB and our most effective scorer on the bench.

I would agree. Although I like Blaylock and he had a monster game, I tend to think Priest would've been much better near the goaline. IMO, he's one of the best ever short yardage and goal situations running backs.

cash1000
11-15-2004, 10:42 AM
Its idiotic to expect the offense to score 30 points a game over the season overall the defense is 80% responsible for the losing and the oggense maybe 20%! Basically you're saying football is won with all offense and no defense with is stupid!

svuba
11-15-2004, 10:52 AM
Basically you're saying football is won with all offense and no defense with is stupid!

No I am saying you simply cannot throw away opportunities again & again & again ... and still expect to win.

This team is unbalanced , and mostly built on Offense - ALL of our probowlers are on Offense, so in the Chiefs case we must expect more from the Unit where all the the money is spent, and all of the PB'er Are. - - Stop making excuses for them, 20 points is not enough

IF this team was built on Defense, with an allpro Defensive line, and Probowlers all over the field on Defense, then we would all expect the Defense to carry the load....

It is Idiotic to expect the Defense to hold the opposition to 19 Points every game if you havent spent any Money on defense.

cash1000
11-15-2004, 10:56 AM
What THE HELL DOES 19 POINTS GAME HAVE TO DO WITH A DEFENSE THAT GIVES UP 30 A GAME??? Proves your logic is screwy!

The Bad Guy
11-15-2004, 10:58 AM
We are 3-6 because our defense can't stop anyone.

Bottom line.

MichaelH
11-15-2004, 11:03 AM
Hrrmmm, I wonder if it had anything to do with us having a pro-bowl RB and our most effective scorer on the bench.

It could be. I think DB had an excellent game, but with Priest in, we could have scored at least 2 more TD's.

The bottom line is because the defense is so awful, the offense has to score 45 points a game to win. It sucks but it's the way it is.

svuba
11-15-2004, 11:04 AM
What THE HELL DOES 19 POINTS GAME HAVE TO DO WITH A DEFENSE THAT GIVES UP 30 A GAME??? Proves your logic is screwy!

Our Offense Scored 20 - So to win we would need to hold them to 19.

We are 3-6 because our defense can't stop anyone.

AND because we throw away multiple scoring opportunities in every game

The Bad Guy
11-15-2004, 11:05 AM
Our Offense Scored 20 - So to win we would need to hold them to 19.



AND because we throw away multiple scoring opportunities in every game

You've gotta be kidding me.

So the offense has to be perfect while the defense can be the worst and get a pass?

That's the reason we are 3-6?

Please.

Chiefnj
11-15-2004, 11:07 AM
My last chance to attempt to explain this.

1. It is a fact that the defense isn't that good.
2. It is a fact that there is not much talent on defense.
3. It is a fact that the offense has a lot of talent and can play very well at times.
4. Because of 1-3 (above) the offense must carry the defense.
5. Because of 1-3 (above) the offense must capitalize whenever the defense happens to make good plays.
6. When the offense fumbles the ball inside the red zone, can't punch it in on 6 attempts from inside the 10, goes 3 and out after a nice defensive INT, can't get out of bounds to kick a field goal, throws INTs in the redzone and gives up sacks on 3 man rushes, the TEAM IS NOT GOING TO WIN.

svuba
11-15-2004, 11:15 AM
You've gotta be kidding me.

So the offense has to be perfect while the defense can be the worst and get a pass?

That's the reason we are 3-6?

Please.

Our defense was not "the Worst" they did make stops today, and gave the Offense opportunities to score.

No the Offense does not have to be perfect, But it has to be High powered.

So How many points would you expect a "High powered Offense" to score against a horrible team? - 20? at what point are you willing to admit that this is not good enough?

Yes the Defense Sucks, but the Offense is Not picking up the slack.

Deberg_1990
11-15-2004, 11:27 AM
The Chiefs are structured similar to the Colts (High Power Offense - Low power Defense.) In order to be successful the Chiefs Must stop squandering Opportunities.






This philosphy is flawed....You cant ask your offense to be perfect every week and on every single drive! Its just not gonna happen. Even the best teams make mistakes on offense from time to time. The way this team is structured they have to be perfect on Offense every game. Even Vermeil's 99 Rams team played defense to some extent. At least they could shutdown bad teams....we cant even do that. Bottom line, you cant be a winner in the NFL with a lopsided team.

FringeNC
11-15-2004, 11:32 AM
What was our efficiency in 2002 and 2003? Pretty high, I bet. We're getting no TOs, no big special teams plays, no fumble recoveries. I know no one likes to hear it, but bad luck is major reason why we are 3-6. We were 13-3 last year with smoke-and-mirrors...

We were a 9-7 team last year and we are a 9-7 team this year. (Actually this team is a little better than last year.) We didn't capitalize on our good fortune last year.

Gaz
11-15-2004, 11:45 AM
Very good points.

Understanding and accepting the relative value of the Defense and Offense is not “giving the Defense a pass.” It is acknowledging that we have a bad Defense and that the Offense [where all the talent resides] has to carry the load.

Chiefnj summarized in a logical, reasoned manner in Post #11.

I do not like it. I love Defense and it breaks my heart to see the Chiefs Defense as crappy as it is. However, my dislike does not alter the situation. The Defense stinks this season and the Offense is not playing up to its potential. Hence, our record.

xoxo~
Gaz
Defense Homer near tears.

Clint in Wichita
11-15-2004, 11:53 AM
The defense is still the single largest on-field problem for the Chiefs. To lay blame on the offense is ridiculous.

The defense is so pathetic that if the offense has an average day, KC has virtually no chance of winning...yet people will still blame the offense for not being able to compensate for Gunther's new "Mongoloid Defense".

It would unfair to ask the offenses of the '00 Rams or the '89 49ers to make up such a deficiency. It cannot be done by any offense on a regular basis, and it's even more unlikely in postseason play.

The offense shouldn't be blamed for being unable to carry the defense; the defense should be blamed for wasting the small window of opportunity this team has. Not only has the window been wasted, but it now has drool on it as well.

The players and Cunther deserve little blame, IMO. Cunther has been trying to perform brain surgery with oven mitts on. At least 8 of his 11 defensive starters have no business starting for any NFL team, and you could make a reasonable argument that every single defensive starter should be replaced, save Dalton. Allen has been a nice surprise, but for some reason he hasn't become a full-time player...I guess Cunther is hoping Holliday still has a surprise or two up his sleeve. :rolleyes:

Anyway, you can't blame retards for being retarded, and you can't blame Cunther for being unable to perform a miracle with said retards. The blame for this incredibly obvious lack of talent falls squarely on the front office, namely Peterson.

What's that? Are you bringing up Holliday, Barber, and McCleon again, Carl? Here's a clue: They all suck ass, BIG TIME, and have since BEFORE you brought them to KC. An optimist would've described them as journeymen at best at the time of their signing (well, a reasonable optimist, anyway).

Carl, most of the scouting department, and Dick Vermeil should be fired. DV is now hovering around .500 during his tenure in KC. That's about like Gunther during his tenure, except that Gunther didn't have Holmes, Green, etc. Vermiel has been impressive at building half a team. Great. :rolleyes:


This KC defense over the last 2 years may not have been the absolute worst on paper (maybe), but on the field, it is the worst I have ever seen. Period. This offense, while imperfect like every other offense in history, is among the greatest ever assembled.

If the '85 Bears had lost the Super Bowl 6-3, would you seriously blame their defense for being unable to make up for the poor offense?!

picasso
11-15-2004, 11:55 AM
My last chance to attempt to explain this.

1. It is a fact that the defense isn't that good.
2. It is a fact that there is not much talent on defense.
3. It is a fact that the offense has a lot of talent and can play very well at times.
4. Because of 1-3 (above) the offense must carry the defense.
5. Because of 1-3 (above) the offense must capitalize whenever the defense happens to make good plays.
6. When the offense fumbles the ball inside the red zone, can't punch it in on 6 attempts from inside the 10, goes 3 and out after a nice defensive INT, can't get out of bounds to kick a field goal, throws INTs in the redzone and gives up sacks on 3 man rushes, the TEAM IS NOT GOING TO WIN.

Exactly!! :thumb:

MichaelH
11-15-2004, 11:57 AM
Who's Cunther?

Clint in Wichita
11-15-2004, 11:58 AM
The Chiefs are structured similar to the Colts (High Power Offense - Low power Defense.)

Actually, the Chiefs have very little in common with the Colts, including offensively.

Chiefnj
11-15-2004, 12:02 PM
Whether you agree with it or not, the plan was for the defense to improve a bit and the offense would be able to carry the team the rest of the way. Remember all the talk about how if the Colts just would have punted once the Chiefs would have won?

By bringing in a new DC and resigning the career day folk, the plan for this year was to bring about marginal improvement and let the offense continue to carry the team.

Clint in Wichita
11-15-2004, 12:05 PM
My last chance to attempt to explain this.

1. It is a fact that the defense isn't that good.
2. It is a fact that there is not much talent on defense.
3. It is a fact that the offense has a lot of talent and can play very well at times.
4. Because of 1-3 (above) the offense must carry the defense.
5. Because of 1-3 (above) the offense must capitalize whenever the defense happens to make good plays.
6. When the offense fumbles the ball inside the red zone, can't punch it in on 6 attempts from inside the 10, goes 3 and out after a nice defensive INT, can't get out of bounds to kick a field goal, throws INTs in the redzone and gives up sacks on 3 man rushes, the TEAM IS NOT GOING TO WIN.

Every one of these facts proves that the defense is the problem.

1-3 - Obviously true

4 - True, but also proof the the defense is the problem. No offense or defense should have to carry their counterparts to the extent that the Chiefs' offense is asked to week in, week out.

5 - Once again, true, but no offense should be forced to score after every single "good play", because those good plays are so friggin rare. Ridiculous.

6 - Any decent offense or defense should be able to bail out the team occaisionally. It is a team sport, after all.

How many times in the last 2 years has the defense bailed this team out?

Gaz
11-15-2004, 12:06 PM
Chiefnj-

Yes, that was the plan.

xoxo~
Gaz
Watching another plan come unraveled.

picasso
11-15-2004, 12:07 PM
Actually, the Chiefs have very little in common with the Colts, including offensively.

Peyton calls a lot of his own plays. Trent only is able to do that in a 2 minute offense. Only successful when he is falling down. KC relies on a script (that works mind you) and then after that it seems like they throw it to the wind. Probably because they don't have a defensive script based on scenarios. Hell I don't know. It makes me ill thinking about it.

Clint in Wichita
11-15-2004, 12:07 PM
Whether you agree with it or not, the plan was for the defense to improve a bit and the offense would be able to carry the team the rest of the way. Remember all the talk about how if the Colts just would have punted once the Chiefs would have won?

By bringing in a new DC and resigning the career day folk, the plan for this year was to bring about marginal improvement and let the offense continue to carry the team.


That's a chickenshit plan on Peterson's part. No balls whatsoever.

Every team should aspire to be #1 in every statistical category. Shouldn't GMs always aim high?

It's never a good sign when the GM makes plans for being "middle of the road".

Gaz
11-15-2004, 12:10 PM
Clint-

You are starting from what could have been in some alternate universe.

Chiefnj, Svuba and I are talking about what actually is.

Yes, in a better world, we would have a good Defense and the Offense would not be expected to carry the load. But this is not that better world. This is the real world where the Chiefs Defense stinks and the onus to win games is squarely on the Offense.

You don’t like it. I don’t like it. But there it is.

xoxo~
Gaz
Regularly abused by the real world.

svuba
11-15-2004, 12:10 PM
To sum up the season:

I Hoped for more from the Defense.

I Expected more from the Offense.

Tuckdaddy
11-15-2004, 12:13 PM
The offense has done it's job in every game for the most part. Yes there have been fumbles and a few int's but still we have gotten in the end zone alot. The defense done very liitle to help win games except give the offense a little rest. They did not help in Denver, Carolina, Texans, Tampa, NO, and got ran over in Jax the last 2 minutes. They helped some in the Colts game,at least for a half of it, but thye offense played damn near perfect that game. Balt and Atlanta was the only game they helped if you ask me.

Gaz
11-15-2004, 12:14 PM
To sum up the season:

I Hoped for more from the Defense.

I Expected more from the Offense.

An accurate summation of my situation as well.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes to grow back his hair, expects to end up bald.

KingPriest2
11-15-2004, 12:15 PM
I moved this from another Thread, so sorry if you saw it on the Defense thread first.

Chiefs Offensive Performance Yesterday:
511 yards ....... 20 points
178 yards per TD - - Running around in circles?
The field is only 100 Yards long.

The colts Today had 398 Total Yards & 49 Points.
56 yards per TD. - - Efficiency & Execution

The Chiefs are structured similar to the Colts (High Power Offense - Low power Defense.) In order to be successful the Chiefs Must stop squandering Opportunities.

We are not the 85 Bears People....... Expecting the Defense win games for us has once again proven to be a foolish notion. This Defense is Not going to hold many teams Under 20 Points, so the Offense Must score MORE than 20 every game to have a chance to Win.

EXPECTING the Defense to hold teams to 19 Points While the Pro-Bowl Laden Offense Runs around like Girls for 511 yard & scores 20 points is ridiculous.

The offense has squandered WAY too many opportunities this year, and consistently plays DOWN to level of competition.



Just for fun I calculated the "Offensive Efficiency" in Yards Gained per Touchdown for all of the winning teams this week:

NO = 96
Cincinati =130
Arizona = 70
Pittsburg = 87
Baltimore = 91
Jags = 126
Atlanta = 94
STL = 140
Panthers = 67
Chicago = 64
Green Bay = 91
NE = 103

KC = 178

So No team that won this week squandered more opportunities than the Chiefs. Which means regardless of the Defensive performance this week no NFL team was able to throw that many opportunities away & still be victorious.

Actually the Colts O scored 35 points not 49. Their D scored 14.

Also in your stats are you counting in Int returns, KR and Pr returns?

stevieray
11-15-2004, 12:16 PM
Third down conversion yesterday was 2/8?

Fourth qtr scoring.

Turnovers.

bringbackmarty
11-15-2004, 12:52 PM
We'll all this offense\defense who is to blame shit certainly begs the question. How do we get better?

The Bad Guy
11-15-2004, 01:24 PM
Third down conversion yesterday was 2/8?

Fourth qtr scoring.

Turnovers.

The Saints getting 374 yards on 54 plays.

The Saints getting 5.8 yards per rush.

The Saints scoring 27 points in 24 minutes.

Make sure you include all of this in your one-sided reason that we lost yesterday.

It's great. Some people realistically expect the offense to score everytime, but the defense can get a pass.

If we had 25 other NFL defenses paired with this offense we would have 1 loss this season.

stevieray
11-15-2004, 03:39 PM
The Saints getting 374 yards on 54 plays.

The Saints getting 5.8 yards per rush.

The Saints scoring 27 points in 24 minutes.

Make sure you include all of this in your one-sided reason that we lost yesterday.

It's great. Some people realistically expect the offense to score everytime, but the defense can get a pass.

If we had 25 other NFL defenses paired with this offense we would have 1 loss this season.
Stop putting words in my mouth, we are talking about the offense in this thread.


I, unlike a lot here, realize it is a team sport, and already have stated that the offense and defense are both responsible for this loss.

If the offense is leaving points on the field, they've failed. If the defense is givng up points, they've failed.