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Chris Meck
11-15-2004, 01:35 PM
Ok.

I've been wrong; dead wrong about this defense. Unlike some folks, I'll own up.

These players just aren't good enough. Oh, they're fast enough, for the most part; big enough. But they're not SMART enough. They're more aggressive now than under GROB, but in all the dumbest ways.

We need new players. Gunther's a great defensive coordinator, and he's proven that in previous tenures. Gun needs to stay, and we need a talent infusion.

Woods can't run anymore. I've watched him closely the last few weeks, and he'll have the angle only to have the enemy blow right by him.

Wesley can't cover. He gets suckered a lot. Warfield is the only quality starter in that secondary-and he's really best suited as the #2 in a good tandem.

The LB corps is flat out not getting it done. Fujita's the only keeper here. Barber has been a waste, Mitchell's just not catching on, and Beisel is still inconsistent when healthy.

I am ready now to give up on Hicks. He just can't beat his man to the ball. Sims is a bust-he's just a body. NO push, NO rush, NO presence. Dalton is FAR superior, and there's just no way that should be the case. Browning has been a complete non-factor, as has Holliday. Allen is the only bright spot here, and he's still about 20 lbs. away from being an everydown end. Siavii the jury's still out on.

We need a quality #1 corner to pair with Warfield. We need at least one upgrade at safety. We need two quality LB's to pair with Fujita. We need a DE, a stud DT to pair with Dalton, and Allen needs to hit the weight room in the offseason.

The corner will have to come in FA, and he'll have to be paid. A DE will likely have to come there too. At least ONE of the LB's as well. Siavii might be your DT, it's too early to tell.

Just my thoughts.

Chris

Gaz
11-15-2004, 01:39 PM
MLB, CB, WLB, S, DE, DT in that order.

xoxo~
Gaz
Doubts he will get his entire wish list.

Chiefnj
11-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Free agency they have to hope for a MLB, OLB, DT or safety.

DE's and CB's are just too much money for KC to pursue in free agency. The Jets will probably only be able to keep Abraham or Ellis meaning the other guy goes free, but I just don't think the Chiefs will ante up in the bidding war for a key defensive position.

go bowe
11-15-2004, 01:44 PM
MLB, CB, WLB, S, DE, DT in that order.

xoxo~
Gaz
Doubts he will get his entire wish list.
it's possible that we already have next year's "better" players at olb...

caver has been doing surprisingly well and key fox should be coming on after another offseason of adding some bulk and muscle, together with another tc and some more coaching...

Gaz
11-15-2004, 01:48 PM
go bo-

Could be. I have not seen enough of Fox to even have a clue. And I also have not seen much from Caver. I am not saying they suck, just that I am clueless.

The LB position is, IMO, the weakest sector of this team. I concede that the secondary is lame, but if I were King, I would pour my money and efforts into the LB corps.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would be tickled if guys already on the roster turned out to be the answer.

go bowe
11-15-2004, 01:48 PM
Free agency they have to hope for a MLB, OLB, DT or safety.

DE's and CB's are just too much money for KC to pursue in free agency. The Jets will probably only be able to keep Abraham or Ellis meaning the other guy goes free, but I just don't think the Chiefs will ante up in the bidding war for a key defensive position.i'm not so sure that we need another starting-quality dt...

sims hasn't lived up to expectations, but he is at least serviceable as a dt...

dalton seems solid and with another offseason of coaching, siavii might just turn out to be a keeper...

and either browning or a low round draft pick should be able to handle the other back-up dt's duties...

el borracho
11-15-2004, 01:48 PM
Hicks, Holliday, Barber and Woods should go immediately. Everyone else gets until the end of next preseason to earn their job.

Gaz
11-15-2004, 01:49 PM
And perhaps Wilkerson and Allen are the solution at DE as well?

xoxo~
Gaz
Not likely to get that lucky.

Raiderhader
11-15-2004, 01:52 PM
Hicks, Holliday, Barber and Woods should go immediately. Everyone else gets until the end of next preseason to earn their job.


I agree.

I have always liked Woods, but this year he is sucking it up Bartee style. And my team comes before any player.

Coogs
11-15-2004, 01:53 PM
I had to listen to the game on the radio yesterday. I heard once that Hicks was going off on the sidelines on somebody. Anybody know what that was all about?

Personally, I can't wait until the day comes when we don't have to hear Hicks and Holliday on the postgame reports trying to find a reason for the suckage we watch every week.

jspchief
11-15-2004, 01:55 PM
We just resigned Hicks, Wesley, and Woods, they aren't going anywhere. We've drafted a MLB and OLB high in the last two drafts, so it seems unlikely that we draft another unless we are able to get a stud MLB in round 1.

What about converting Bartee to safety? He seems to do well in run support. His coverage skills are still a mystery, but they can't be worse than Woods right now.

The scary thing is, we 've got a ton of youth at defensive positions. How many more years can we load up on D players? Sooner or later we're going to need O-linemen and and a FB, not to mention a future QB. If these young D players don't pan out, this team will be screwed. We need guys like Fox, Siavii, Mitchell, Sapp and Battle to evolve into starters. Maybe not stars, but we need to get role players out of some of these guys.

go bowe
11-15-2004, 01:57 PM
go bo-

Could be. I have not seen enough of Fox to even have a clue. And I also have not seen much from Caver. I am not saying they suck, just that I am clueless.

The LB position is, IMO, the weakest sector of this team. I concede that the secondary is lame, but if I were King, I would pour my money and efforts into the LB corps.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would be tickled if guys already on the roster turned out to be the answer.
fox seems like a big hitter with speed, he's just a bit undersized and raw...

weight training and coaching should improve fox to the point that he is adequate (which is better than we seem to have now)...

the other reason we haven't seen that much of fox because dv hates to play rookies...

which makes me wonder whether we have any chance of improving on the d through the draft since dv doesn't play rookies... :(

i thought caver did ok yesterday replacing barber and beisel...

iirc, caver was a second round draft pick of the eagles and he has tons of potential...

hopefully he will get better with more playing time over the rest of the season...

go bowe
11-15-2004, 01:59 PM
And perhaps Wilkerson and Allen are the solution at DE as well?

xoxo~
Gaz
Not likely to get that lucky.
wilkerson was supposedly showing a lot of promise last year under the dc not to be named, but has pretty much disappeared this year...

Coogs
11-15-2004, 02:00 PM
We just resigned Hicks, Wesley, and Woods, they aren't going anywhere.

Depends on the size of the signing bonus. If those were not huge, we could cut them pretty easily. Remember, we have $6.5 million of cap space. :D

go bowe
11-15-2004, 02:01 PM
We just resigned Hicks, Wesley, and Woods, they aren't going anywhere. We've drafted a MLB and OLB high in the last two drafts, so it seems unlikely that we draft another unless we are able to get a stud MLB in round 1.

What about converting Bartee to safety? He seems to do well in run support. His coverage skills are still a mystery, but they can't be worse than Woods right now.

The scary thing is, we 've got a ton of youth at defensive positions. How many more years can we load up on D players? Sooner or later we're going to need O-linemen and and a FB, not to mention a future QB. If these young D players don't pan out, this team will be screwed. We need guys like Fox, Siavii, Mitchell, Sapp and Battle to evolve into starters. Maybe not stars, but we need to get role players out of some of these guys.seems like battle was on the field some yesterday and he didn't get any flags for illegal contact/holding/pass interference, so maybe there's hope for him... i hope...

go bowe
11-15-2004, 02:03 PM
Depends on the size of the signing bonus. If those were not huge, we could cut them pretty easily. Remember, we have $6.5 million of cap space. :Di think i read on one of the other threads that it if we cut somebody now it is too late to apply it to this year's cap...

Raiderhader
11-15-2004, 02:11 PM
seems like battle was on the field some yesterday and he didn't get any flags for illegal contact/holding/pass interference, so maybe there's hope for him... i hope...


He might as well have, everyone else did.

the Talking Can
11-15-2004, 02:13 PM
Hicks signed for almost nothing, we can cut him....Woods is a bigger problem cap wise....Woods/Sims/LJ all need to be shown the door, but because of their salaries they won't....so Blaylock will walk away and we'll still be the same shitty team on defense forever and ever amen....they've had 4 years to figure out how to field a good defense, what makes anyone think the same people will figure it out next year?

NewChief
11-15-2004, 02:13 PM
iirc, caver was a second round draft pick of the eagles and he has tons of potential...

hopefully he will get better with more playing time over the rest of the season...

Being from Arkansas, I'm a big fan of Caver. He's a big, strong guy from all appearances. He does, however, look a little slow. Last week against Tampa, he got smoked by Pittman going to the outside when Caver had a definite angle on him. Pittman just accelerated and easily turned the corner on him. Not sure if that's a testament to Pittman or if it means Caver is a little slow. He did, however, bat down a pass, and he looked impressively tall when he did that.

the Talking Can
11-15-2004, 02:15 PM
carver is a career special teams guy, if he is our hope for the future, well....ughh....

Chiefnj
11-15-2004, 02:18 PM
"The six-year deal for Woods, who had made it clear his preference was to return to the Chiefs, is worth more than $3 million annually. The combined value of the initial signing bonus and a second-tier option bonus is $5 million, the same as Wesley's contract."

I think Hicks had a 3 mil bonus.

Mr. Laz
11-15-2004, 02:24 PM
:harumph:

LiL stumppy
11-15-2004, 03:28 PM
We just resigned Hicks, Wesley, and Woods, they aren't going anywhere. We've drafted a MLB and OLB high in the last two drafts, so it seems unlikely that we draft another unless we are able to get a stud MLB in round 1.

What about converting Bartee to safety? He seems to do well in run support. His coverage skills are still a mystery, but they can't be worse than Woods right now.

The scary thing is, we 've got a ton of youth at defensive positions. How many more years can we load up on D players? Sooner or later we're going to need O-linemen and and a FB, not to mention a future QB. If these young D players don't pan out, this team will be screwed. We need guys like Fox, Siavii, Mitchell, Sapp and Battle to evolve into starters. Maybe not stars, but we need to get role players out of some of these guys.


I was thinking we shoukd try LJ at full back.He has the size.

Bob Dole
11-15-2004, 03:31 PM
I was thinking we shoukd try LJ at full back.He has the size.


Too bad his weakest skill is blocking, eh?

BigChiefFan
11-15-2004, 03:35 PM
I was thinking we shoukd try LJ at full back.He has the size. If LJ ends up as a FB and we spent a 1st round pick on him, the shit will hit the fan.

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2004, 04:13 PM
I think the original post nailed it.

Almost everyone on this defense is not football smart. The only exceptions, IMO, are Warfield and Fujita.

Hicks - too slow
Browning - too slow, no push
Holliday - yikes :shake:
Barber - has the speed, but gets blocked too easily, and is dumb
Same for the other LBs, except Fujita

The Bad Guy
11-15-2004, 04:43 PM
MLB, CB, WLB, S, DE, DT in that order.

xoxo~
Gaz
Doubts he will get his entire wish list.


DE should be right behind cornerback for the top.

CB, DE, MLB, WLB, S in that order.

We can't cover anyone deep, and we have no true pass rushers. Allen could be one, but we have nothing on the other side.

Mr. Laz
11-15-2004, 05:00 PM
DE should be right behind cornerback for the top.

CB, DE, MLB, WLB, S in that order.

We can't cover anyone deep, and we have no true pass rushers. Allen could be one, but we have nothing on the other side.
you know i used to get verbally gang "bashed" daily for posting such blasphemus, negative nellie type stuff.




you need to stop immediately young man or you will be sent to your room withouth supper.

Swanman
11-15-2004, 05:00 PM
Too bad his weakest skill is blocking, eh?

That's along the lines of "if you take out the fact that he has trouble catching the ball, he's a great receiver".

wolfpack0735
11-15-2004, 05:19 PM
people say we need this we need that and we do. the trouble we need about 7 or 8 new guys on defense and a true number one wideout on offense. the trouble is more than likely there isnt enough cap room next year.lamar hunt, yes it all starts and stops with him, is too cheap to open his check book for top players. queen carl may be sitting on 6 mil now but hunt knows this also, and dosnt do anything about it. but why should he?, we fill the stadium, buy chief things and fill his pocket book. :banghead:

FAX
11-15-2004, 05:25 PM
DV says that they just need hugs and they will do better.

FAX

Braincase
11-15-2004, 05:28 PM
Scrw what the CHiefs need. I need a beer. And maybe a bolus of pure Afghan opiates.

ChiefsCountry
11-15-2004, 05:48 PM
We signed the wrong guys last off season. We should have signed Takeo Spikes instead of Barber, Dre Bly who was actually a starter in STL not McCleon, Holiday was a waste but Hugh Douglas was too so I don't know about there. Instead of LJ we should have drafted Boss Bailey. And instead of Mitchell I dont know who but somebody could have been better.

FAX
11-15-2004, 05:49 PM
Scrw what the CHiefs need. I need a beer. And maybe a bolus of pure Afghan opiates.

You're a dipshit.

FAX THE BOB_DOLE FAN

Mr. Laz
11-15-2004, 05:51 PM
We signed the wrong guys last off season. We should have signed Takeo Spikes instead of Barber, Dre Bly who was actually a starter in STL not McCleon, Holiday was a waste but Hugh Douglas was too so I don't know about there. Instead of LJ we should have drafted Boss Bailey. And instead of Mitchell I dont know who but somebody could have been better.
which is what some people have been screaming about for years.


and in return they get blasted as being bashers and not being "true fans"


it's funny as hell to see some of the "rah rah" people parroting some of the same they attacked in the past.

ROFL ROFL




you can bet your @ss they they will do it again in the future too :banghead:

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2004, 05:57 PM
You're a dipshit.

FAX THE BOB_DOLE FAN

God damn you are greatness.

GOCHIEFS THE AMUSED

RedandGold
11-15-2004, 06:03 PM
Even though our front seven aren't as dominant as I would like, our biggest weakness is our secondary. We have shown that we can control the run and provide some level of pressure on the QB, but we keep getting roasted on the deep pass.

In play action, our safetys over-commit on the run, which leaves our CBs as a single point of failure. We simply don't have the talent at the CB position to be successful under these circumstances.

My replacement list in order of importance:

CB (legitimate #1 guy - keep Warfield as a #2)
S (Woods and Wesley both need to go)
MLB (we desperately need a leader on defense)
DE (replace both Hicks and Holliday)
OLB (replace Barber)

TEX
11-15-2004, 07:32 PM
We signed the wrong guys last off season. We should have signed Takeo Spikes instead of Barber, Dre Bly who was actually a starter in STL not McCleon, Holiday was a waste but Hugh Douglas was too so I don't know about there. Instead of LJ we should have drafted Boss Bailey. And instead of Mitchell I dont know who but somebody could have been better.

Um..Pierce instead of Mitchell would have been absolutely fine with me.

TEX
11-15-2004, 07:42 PM
IMO, the interior D-line is okay, we do need upgrades at BOTH END positions, but maybe Allen can get the job done at one when he bulks up?

Maybe some of our converted Safeties who now play CB should be moved to Safety? :hmmm: I'm not sold on replacing Wesley, but Woods has been KILLING us all year. He's seems to be out of position much too often and he has lost way more than a step. :shake:

Our LB's are very weak and we need major upgrades there. I'm NOT sold on any of them but I would keep Fuj and Mitchell could back up the new starting ML and Beisel could be a back-up as well.

The problem with staying pat is when you do decide to make some moves, it's nearly impossible to get all that you need because you didn't make any previous ones. What makes matters worse for the CHIEFS is that they signed all thier $HITTY players so there's gonna be cap hits if they do what needs to be done. :banghead:

Ralphy Boy
11-15-2004, 07:58 PM
The problem with staying pat is when you do decide to make some moves, it's nearly impossible to get all that you need because you didn't make any previous ones. What makes matters worse for the CHIEFS is that they signed all thier $HITTY players so there's gonna be cap hits if they do what needs to be done. :banghead:


Ding ding ding ding!!!!!! We have a winner.

I honestly don't know where to start on defense, we are horrible.

Also, somebody said "Warfield" and "smarts" in the same sentence and that just seems funny and sad to me all at once.

They might go higher, but at this point I can dream and given our record, we might be in position to get the the following in the draft and hope for the best:
1st Round
Antrel Rolle
CB, Miami (FL)

Strengths: Is a prototype NFL cornerback. Possesses excellent speed, and is athletic enough to make quick cuts on the run. Recovers smoothly from any mistake. Is at his best in bump-and-run coverage, using his strength and size to push receivers off routes. Relishes contact against the run, and is an unyielding tackler.

Weaknesses: Relies too much on instincts at times, and must improve route-recognition skills. Tends to bite at play-action fakes. Sometimes misses bumps against smaller, speed receivers and thus gets out of position. Has some character issues; recently was charged with a felony count of battery on a police officer.

Bottom line: Rolle is a surefire top-10 pick in the '05 draft. His combination of size, strength, speed and athleticism is essential to any elite NFL cornerback. Although the uncertain status of his legal situation could impact his senior season, Rolle looks like a good bet to be the first cornerback drafted regardless.

2nd Round
James Butler
S, Georgia Tech

Strengths: Is most comfortable in coverage. Shows great leaping ability. Excels at reading quarterbacks' eyes. Height allows him to match up against taller receivers. Is a consistent big-play threat. Shines in run support with great open-field tackling skills. Is a true student-athlete. Has a tireless work ethic both in the film room and the classroom. Is a leader with great intangibles both on and off the field.

Weaknesses: Has only one season of starting experience. Needs to improve technique and awareness. Has decent speed, but it's not enough for him to stay with the fastest of receivers. Must bulk up and get stronger to become more effective at the line of scrimmage.

Bottom line: Butler, an All-Academic ACC performer, is limited by his lack of top-end speed and bulk. But his instincts, intangibles and intelligence and another excellent year for the Yellow Jackets will secure him a first- or second-round selection.

3rd Round
Lance Mitchell
ILB, Oklahoma

Strengths: Is a fiery competitor who relishes contact. Has good speed and has improved coverage skills. Tackles solidly and can play sideline-to-sideline. Is adept against the run with enough strength to regularly shed blockers. Shows superb athleticism with size, strength, agility and toughness.

Weaknesses: Lost almost his entire 2003 season to a torn ACL. The major concern is if he can recover and play as well as he did before he suffered the injury. Sometimes can be overaggressive; jumps at too many play-fakes.

Bottom line: Mitchell’s draft status rests almost solely on whether he can come back as the same player he was before the knee injury. If he shows that he is healthy and continues his production, Mitchell may be a great find in Round 2.

nascher
11-15-2004, 08:14 PM
We need more and better LB's

Take a look at New Englands Roster.

Inspector
11-15-2004, 09:45 PM
They just need to grow beards.

Gaz
11-16-2004, 06:42 AM
DT is serviceable [Sims, Siavii, Dalton, Browning]
We have [1] hole at DE [not Allen]
We have [2] holes at LB [not Fujita]
We have [1] hole at CB [not Warfield]
We have [1] hole at S [not Wesley]

Free agent CBs & DEs generally cost a ton o’ money. Not an option. We will have to draft and throw a rookie into the fire. Scary. Of the two, I would put CB a higher priority, given the players on the roster.

MLB, WLB, S. Of these, I would consider MLB the most critical need. I had high hopes for Mitchell, and he may yet pan out. He has made some good plays, but has also been pretty awful at times. I am trying to be patient with the rookie blues, but MLB concerns me. I think that Beisel is not the answer. He is backup material and I would be content to have him in that position.

WLB could be Caver or Fox. As I said, I have not seen enough of either to form a considered opinion. And there is perennial favorite Scanlon.

S is another spot where we have an option. I would replace Woods with Harts. I think part of the problem at S [as has been mentioned before] is that they are heavy into run support because our LB corps is so weak. Upgrade the LBs and the S position should get better.

Of course, the Offense Homers will demand a WR or two, and our OLine is not getting any younger…

xoxo~
Gaz
Needs a lot of “potential” to pan out.

DaWolf
11-16-2004, 07:25 AM
If you have a smart personnel guy running things, it s not that hard to fix a defense. It has been done many times before. Carolina went in one year from like the 32nd defense to the 2nd defense in the league a few years back. St Louis revamped their horrible 2000 D and was back in the Super Bowl the next year. Atlanta sucked last year, but barring a few games, are much improved this year. Oakland in 1997 had the NFL's worst D and I believe came back and became top 10 the next year.

We've only got two problems: first, Carl is running our front office. Second, Gunther is no great defensive coordinator...