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View Full Version : Whitlock wants the Chiefs to trade Gonzalez in order to improve the defense!!!


John_Wayne
11-15-2004, 08:06 PM
To me, that is pure lunacy!!

Yes, I think KC should devote all of it's '05 draft picks and all of it's available salary cap dollars toward defensive players. But trading a future Hall of Famer is crazy. Priest Holmes is the #1 key to our offense. Trent is the #2 key to our offense. But Tony G is a close #3. Without him, there would be a huge hole in our offense. Priest wouldn't get as much running room and the WR wouldn't be open as much.

What do you think?

Cannibal
11-15-2004, 08:13 PM
To me, that is pure lunacy!!

Yes, I think KC should devote all of it's '05 draft picks and all of it's available salary cap dollars toward defensive players. But trading a future Hall of Famer is crazy. Priest Holmes is the #1 key to our offense. Trent is the #2 key to our offense. But Tony G is a close #3. Without him, there would be a huge hole in our offense. Priest wouldn't get as much running room and the WR wouldn't be open as much.

What do you think?

I would prefer to find another way to upgrade the D. They can start by drafting better and making better decisions in free agency. I would say "fire Carl", but we know that is not going to happen. If it hasn't happened after all of the bad drafts and free agency blunders, it's not going to happen now. God damn what a sh!tty GM! I am SOOOO fuggin sick of his act.

I want to see Gonzo finish his career and be enshrined into the HOF as a Chief.

Tuckdaddy
11-15-2004, 08:13 PM
I don't think so. What would get for Gonzo but one player. Maybe even a great player. But one player will not fix our defense next year. Trading Tony would be passing game death for next year.

Dartgod
11-15-2004, 08:15 PM
Hell, package him with Carl Peterson and I'd do it for a sack of day-old donuts.

Cannibal
11-15-2004, 08:16 PM
Hell, package him with Carl Peterson and I'd do it for a sack of day-old donuts.

If losing Gonzo meant we'd also get rid of Carl. I'd have to bite the bullet and say proceed.

cheeeefs
11-15-2004, 08:17 PM
no F'in way we trade Tony G... we get a good WR and with Kris Wilson healthy we could be even more scary on O next year then we are this year (providing the Priest/Blaylock/LJ soap opera doesn't blow up in our face somehow) I think we can clean out the fat on our D, all the worthless overpaid players... take whatever salary hit we will, pick up some young cheap talent... who I guaruntee will be at LEAST as good as the millionaires who fill those positions and go out and pick up the biggest defensive monster on the market come hell or high water so we can have some leadership on our weak side of the ball. I think Jared Allen is the ONLY one on our D with any type of sack, he can stay... to the rest of them "YOUR FIRED"

Saulbadguy
11-15-2004, 08:17 PM
Well, Tony G. is definately part of our offensive system, and not alot of other offenses gameplan their TE as much as we do.

Pitt Gorilla
11-15-2004, 08:31 PM
I would prefer to find another way to upgrade the D. They can start by drafting better and making better decisions in free agency. I would say "fire Carl", but we know that is not going to happen. If it hasn't happened after all of the bad drafts and free agency blunders, it's not going to happen now. God damn what a sh!tty GM! I am SOOOO fuggin sick of his act.

I want to see Gonzo finish his career and be enshrined into the HOF as a Chief.I'm not a big Carl fan, but your post sort of cracked me up. He has made bad decisions, but you do realize who had the foresight to trade up and draft said TE?

Sure-Oz
11-15-2004, 08:42 PM
Don't trade anyone on the O, we need some attitude on the D and get a few playmakers via draft or free agency, once again we just need an AVG D to go far.

Valiant
11-15-2004, 08:45 PM
I'm not a big Carl fan, but your post sort of cracked me up. He has made bad decisions, but you do realize who had the foresight to trade up and draft said TE?


Lynn Stiles???

BigRedChief
11-15-2004, 08:46 PM
We need balance. We are going to have to give up something to get something in return. How about this?

Tony G for a shut down corner.

Slap the franchise label on Blaylock and trade him for LB help

We still have Priest and Wilson to take Tony G's place.

Draft a WR and Boricheter should help out

Pick up FA Safety help

chiefs4me
11-15-2004, 08:48 PM
NOOOOOOO,,not TONY G

Ralphy Boy
11-15-2004, 08:49 PM
... to the rest of them "YOUR FIRED"

We need a Donald Trump "YOUR FIRED" smilie.

TEX
11-15-2004, 09:05 PM
no F'in way we trade Tony G... we get a good WR and with Kris Wilson healthy we could be even more scary on O next year then we are this year (providing the Priest/Blaylock/LJ soap opera doesn't blow up in our face somehow) I think we can clean out the fat on our D, all the worthless overpaid players... take whatever salary hit we will, pick up some young cheap talent... who I guaruntee will be at LEAST as good as the millionaires who fill those positions and go out and pick up the biggest defensive monster on the market come hell or high water so we can have some leadership on our weak side of the ball. I think Jared Allen is the ONLY one on our D with any type of sack, he can stay... to the rest of them "YOUR FIRED"

I'm with ya but I'd keep Dalton as he's earned it. NO WAY I trade Gonzo. We could have upgraded the _efense this past off season by (here's a concept) not resigning our CRAPPY players and adding BETTER ones as they were out there. Trading Gonzo would be a MISTAKE to try and cover up past MISTAKES!

ROYC75
11-15-2004, 10:45 PM
Nope, bad deal. You don't trade a player who can change the direction of your offense for 1 player that can change the defense unless you have backup player to take up the slack.

kansas hawk
11-15-2004, 11:09 PM
Whitlock's stupidity never fails to amaze me

chiefsfolife
11-15-2004, 11:13 PM
kris wilson...trade gonzo man

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2004, 11:16 PM
Nope, bad deal. You don't trade a player who can change the direction of your offense for 1 player that can change the defense unless you have backup player to take up the slack.

Kris Wilson.

kansas hawk
11-15-2004, 11:19 PM
so you think it's wise to trade a hall of fame tightend and have a unproven guy take his place? i think CP has some competition

morphius
11-15-2004, 11:24 PM
I will always be against trading away top tier talent, trading a top 15 player is one thing, trading a top 3 talent at a position is just dangerous.

John_Wayne
11-15-2004, 11:26 PM
I would trade LJ in a minute. But we'd get no more than a 4th round pick at the very most. I say we sign Blaylock to be the eventual replacement for Priest and ditch LJ while we can. He's a cancer.

TEX
11-15-2004, 11:28 PM
Kris Wilson.

ROFL Dude's a midget for a TE. He's going to replace T-Rich some day IF he ever plays...

RedandGold
11-15-2004, 11:34 PM
I'd rather trade off Woods, Wesley, and Hicks for 6th and a case of beer.

I don't see the benefit of trading away one of the few bright spots on this team...

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2004, 11:58 PM
ROFL Dude's a midget for a TE. He's going to replace T-Rich some day IF he ever plays...

He's 6'2. Tony is 6'4. Are you telling me that Kris Wilson can't be a good tight end because of 2 inches?

alanm
11-16-2004, 12:50 AM
Whitlock's stupidity never fails to amaze meNot to mention a moron.

tk13
11-16-2004, 12:54 AM
He's 6'2. Tony is 6'4. Are you telling me that Kris Wilson can't be a good tight end because of 2 inches?
Heck, I'm anywhere from 6'2" to 6'4" depending on what doctor's office measures me....

Miles
11-16-2004, 01:33 AM
He's 6'2. Tony is 6'4. Are you telling me that Kris Wilson can't be a good tight end because of 2 inches?

No shit. As long as the 6'2 isnt exagerated its not a big deal at all.

Demonpenz
11-16-2004, 01:59 AM
trade priest, he is just a product of this offensive line anyway

el borracho
11-16-2004, 02:16 AM
Maybe we could merge this thread with the "Should Priest do us a favor and retire?" thread to create the worst thread ever.

KcMizzou
11-16-2004, 02:19 AM
I'd be VERY upset if the Chiefs chose to part ways with Tony G this offseason.

I can't imagine that it'd ever happen anyway.

KcMizzou
11-16-2004, 02:19 AM
Maybe we could merge this thread with the "Should Priest do us a favor and retire?" thread to create the worst thread ever. Amen!

Logical
11-16-2004, 02:21 AM
He's 6'2. Tony is 6'4. Are you telling me that Kris Wilson can't be a good tight end because of 2 inches?

Your boyfriend says your lack of 2 inches keeps him from having a good tight end.

BigMeatballDave
11-16-2004, 02:37 AM
I don't see how you could trade him. Wouldn't there be a huge cap hit?

Demonpenz
11-16-2004, 02:39 AM
they should trade priest, it is obvious blaylock has more burst

J Diddy
11-16-2004, 03:42 AM
Your boyfriend says your lack of 2 inches keeps him from having a good tight end.


ROFL

BigRedChief
11-16-2004, 07:34 AM
It amazes me that this team doesn't really take chances. They go the safe route every time. If you are standing pat in the NFL you are in reality falling behind.

Look at Philly. Been to the NFC championship game 3 straight years. Did they stand pat? NE has won 2 out of the last 3 Super Bowls. Did they stand pat? Denver traded away one of the elite backs in the NFL. San Diego went after McCardell and benched their #1 draft pick with a pile of money to go with who's winning. You see it all over the NFL but not in KC and as long as King Carl is in charge you won't see it in KC.

What does King Carl do 3 times, 3 frigging times during his tenure? 13-3, home field advantage, first round loss at home, stand pat during the off season. Same mistake 3 times. Will he ever learn?

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 07:41 AM
Look at Philly. Been to the NFC championship game 3 straight years. Did they stand pat? NE has won 2 out of the last 3 Super Bowls. Did they stand pat? Denver traded away one of the elite backs in the NFL. San Diego went after McCardell and benched their #1 draft pick with a pile of money to go with who's winning. You see it all over the NFL but not in KC and as long as King Carl is in charge you won't see it in KC.

Philly 'stood pat' 3 years prior to this last offseason. Who did NE get prior to Dillon last year that put them 'over the top'--they've yet to win a SB with Dillon.

What did Carl do in the '03 offseason? Did he stand pat? or did he just not go after the people you wanted?

BigRedChief
11-16-2004, 07:48 AM
Philly 'stood pat' 3 years prior to this last offseason. Who did NE get prior to Dillon last year that put them 'over the top'--they've yet to win a SB with Dillon.

What did Carl do in the '03 offseason? Did he stand pat? or did he just not go after the people you wanted?
I thought we should have went after Ty Law. If we stayed in the same spot drafted Evans the WR but should have moved up in the draft to get corner help. Went after Robaire Smith in FA. Not resigned Hicks and Bartee to "star" contracts. I was in favor of signing Wesley. This was all posted in a thread about what to do this offseason. So I guess I did do a better job than King Carl if I would have been in charge. I'm on record in this thread about what we should do now. Whats your opinion?

morphius
11-16-2004, 07:52 AM
Your boyfriend says your lack of 2 inches keeps him from having a good tight end.
Boy, oh boy. Wouldn't that be his lack of 2" is helping to keep his ass tight, and not the other way around?

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 08:02 AM
Philly 'stood pat' 3 years prior to this last offseason. Who did NE get prior to Dillon last year that put them 'over the top'--they've yet to win a SB with Dillon.

What did Carl do in the '03 offseason? Did he stand pat? or did he just not go after the people you wanted?

You might want to actually answer the post I made.

I dont really give a crap about your armchair GM nonsense because it means nothing. Let's talk about reality.

BigRedChief
11-16-2004, 08:22 AM
You might want to actually answer the post I made.

I dont really give a crap about your armchair GM nonsense because it means nothing. Let's talk about reality.

I did answer your question. WTF is your reality? Are you saying King Carl is a good talent evaluator? My point is exactly waht I said that even an "armchair GM" can do better than him. I wasn't trying to say I'm smarter than him or a better evaluator. I'm just one of many that were saying the same thing. King Carl is always trying to outsmart the other GM's. He needs to quit trying to prove his superior intelligense and just be smart.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 08:31 AM
I did answer your question. WTF is your reality? Are you saying King Carl is a good talent evaluator? My point is exactly waht I said that even an "armchair GM" can do better than him. I wasn't trying to say I'm smarter than him or a better evaluator. I'm just one of many that were saying the same thing. King Carl is always trying to outsmart the other GM's. He needs to quit trying to prove his superior intelligense and just be smart.

My reality is this...you are not the GM and never will be and second guessing after the fact does not make one 'more qualified' to be a GM. Until you get a job in an NFL front office, forgive me if I dont put much stock in what you would have 'done instead'.

You noted several teams that 'didnt stand pat' and I pointed out that they had and that KC did the exact opposite in 2003...you've ignored this, for very good reason, and have tried this tack. Sorry, the 'Im smarter than the front office' is a non starter with me.

BigRedChief
11-16-2004, 08:41 AM
Let me get this straight. You are saying because I'm not the GM and never will be the GM my opinion in worthless. Is this correct?

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 08:45 AM
Let me get this straight. You are saying because I'm not the GM and never will be the GM my opinion in worthless. Is this correct?

Nope...Im saying that I reserve the right to question your opinion.

You stated in your original post that several teams didnt stand pat, I pointed out they had in the past, yet you continue to ignore that.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-16-2004, 08:49 AM
Whitlock needs listeners to his show so bad, he is willing to have people call him up, just to call him stupid...rather brilliant

alpha_omega
11-16-2004, 09:26 AM
DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN!

TEX
11-16-2004, 09:35 AM
It amazes me that this team doesn't really take chances. They go the safe route every time. If you are standing pat in the NFL you are in reality falling behind.


What does King Carl do 3 times, 3 frigging times during his tenure? 13-3, home field advantage, first round loss at home, stand pat during the off season. Same mistake 3 times. Will he ever learn?

That's not correct - After the '97 13-3 season, Carl signed Chester and Leslie O'Neal. Most wish he would have stood pat back then... :hmmm:

I'm not in favor of the stance the CHIEFS took this offseason as I would not have resigned many of our own _efensive players. My only point was to point out that he did not stand pat after one of our 13-3 seasons. I can't remeber who we got back in '96 after the first 13-3 season.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 09:42 AM
That's not correct - After the '97 13-3 season, Carl signed Chester and Leslie O'Neal. Most wish he would have stood pat back then... :hmmm:

I'm not in favor of the stance the CHIEFS took this offseason as I would not have resigned many of our own _efensive players. My only point was to point out that he did not stand pat after one of our 13-3 seasons. I can't remeber who we got back in '96 after the first 13-3 season.

And Dan Williams.

Logical
11-16-2004, 10:18 AM
Nope...Im saying that I reserve the right to question your opinion.

You stated in your original post that several teams didnt stand pat, I pointed out they had in the past, yet you continue to ignore that.

Neither New England or Philly stood pat the last couple of years. They let people go and replaced them with draft picks that actually had value. New England also picked up two or three decent free agents such as Rodney Harrison and Scott McCready who made key contributions to their SB run. So I would say your stand pat statement is flat out false. The Eagles signed starters Alonzo Ephraim, John Ritichie, Mark Simoneau, Nate Wayne and Dirk Johnson in 2003.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 10:29 AM
Neither New England or Philly stood pat the last couple of years. They let people go and replaced them with draft picks that actually had value. New England also picked up two or three decent free agents such as Rodney Harrison and Scott McCready who made key contributions to their SB run. So I would say your stand pat statement is flat out false. The Eagles signed starters Alonzo Ephraim, John Ritichie, Mark Simoneau, Nate Wayne and Dirk Johnson in 2003.

Scott who? Sorry, I live next door to a Pats fan and talk pats football with him all the time and Ive never once heard the name 'Scott McCready'--I checked NFL.com and couldnt find him either.

Ephriam has yet to start a game for the Eagles, Fullbacks are allways the key to an offense, so I have to give this one to you. Simoneau and Wayne are defensive players, and that's great that they have been productive, but Philly's weakness was offense not the defense--these would be the equivalent of KC signing Welbourne last offseason. Dirk Johnson is a punter.

Following your logic or at least your examples from Philly, You are saying that KC didnt stand pat last year either.

Logical
11-16-2004, 10:35 AM
Scott who? Sorry, I live next door to a Pats fan and talk pats football with him all the time and Ive never once heard the name 'Scott McCready'--I checked NFL.com and couldnt find him either.

Ephriam has yet to start a game for the Eagles, Fullbacks are allways the key to an offense, so I have to give this one to you. Simoneau and Wayne are defensive players, and that's great that they have been productive, but Philly's weakness was offense not the defense--these would be the equivalent of KC signing Welbourne last offseason. Dirk Johnson is a punter.

Following your logic or at least your examples from Philly, You are saying that KC didnt stand pat last year either.
We signed one player and traded for one player both at positions that should not have been need positions. Then they signed one d-line guy who has worked out. They did not address their dire needs at CB and LB in a year chock full of free agents at those positions. Their play certainly shows it as well. On offense they needed a decent WR and chose not to address that need. On top of that they left 6 million of cap space unused. I believe Philly and NE both maxed out their cap money in 2003.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 10:40 AM
We signed one player and traded for one player both at positions that should not have been need positions. Then they signed one d-line guy who has worked out. They did not address their dire needs at CB and LB in a year chock full of free agents at those positions. Their play certainly shows it as well. On offense they needed a decent WR and chose not to address that need. On top of that they left 6 million of cap space unused. I believe Philly and NE both maxed out their cap money in 2003.

What you praise Philly for, you are critical about KC, using your prior post.

Philly needed WR's for 3 years, this last offseason they finally made the move after 3 straight NFC Championship failures. That's called not addressing their needs...your player transactions notwithstanding, which had nothing to do with filling their needs.

The cap space issue has been hashed out so many times, it's a canard. If Lamar says 'no cash', there's no cash. You can thrash and wail all you want, but it's not going to change anything.

But I do appreciate the deflection from the original point that 'every other team' doesnt 'stand pat' only KC does which BigRedChief has totally abandoned as well.

Logical
11-16-2004, 10:49 AM
What you praise Philly for, you are critical about KC, using your prior post.

Philly needed WR's for 3 years, this last offseason they finally made the move after 3 straight NFC Championship failures. That's called not addressing their needs...your player transactions notwithstanding, which had nothing to do with filling their needs.

The cap space issue has been hashed out so many times, it's a canard. If Lamar says 'no cash', there's no cash. You can thrash and wail all you want, but it's not going to change anything.

But I do appreciate the deflection from the original point that 'every other team' doesnt 'stand pat' only KC does which BigRedChief has totally abandoned as well.
My argument is simply that you were wrong in saying that NE and Philly stood pat. Clearly you were wrong. To top it off they did not waste cap space.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 10:52 AM
My argument is simply that you were wrong in saying that NE and Philly stood pat. Clearly you were wrong.

LOL...actually, I didnt define 'stood pat', that was BigRedChief. You and I are actually arguing the same thing. KC didnt 'stand pat', they just didnt sign what you or BRC wanted...which was my whole point all along.

htismaqe
11-16-2004, 10:53 AM
What you praise Philly for, you are critical about KC, using your prior post.

Philly needed WR's for 3 years, this last offseason they finally made the move after 3 straight NFC Championship failures. That's called not addressing their needs...your player transactions notwithstanding, which had nothing to do with filling their needs.

The cap space issue has been hashed out so many times, it's a canard. If Lamar says 'no cash', there's no cash. You can thrash and wail all you want, but it's not going to change anything.

But I do appreciate the deflection from the original point that 'every other team' doesnt 'stand pat' only KC does which BigRedChief has totally abandoned as well.

Soren Petro said yesterday that anybody that thinks the Chiefs are more than $1M, or $2M, at most under the cap are DEAD WRONG.

Rausch
11-16-2004, 11:09 AM
Soren Petro said yesterday that anybody that thinks the Chiefs are more than $1M, or $2M, at most under the cap are DEAD WRONG.

Any basis for this statment?

htismaqe
11-16-2004, 11:10 AM
Any basis for this statment?

He said something about nobody takes into account the incentive bonuses and that TRich had an easy-to-earn incentive bonus that will count against the cap...

Rausch
11-16-2004, 11:15 AM
He said something about nobody takes into account the incentive bonuses and that TRich had an easy-to-earn incentive bonus that will count against the cap...

So after incentives (I'm guessing from everyone's contracts) we're looking at only being 2-3 million over?...

So, we really weren't sitting on this 6 or 7 million cushion? Carl really did spend the money?

Oh, the planet will not be pleased...

htismaqe
11-16-2004, 11:20 AM
So after incentives (I'm guessing from everyone's contracts) we're looking at only being 2-3 million over?...

So, we really weren't sitting on this 6 or 7 million cushion? Carl really did spend the money?

Oh, the planet will not be pleased...

He said that with the way contracts are structured nowadays there is "no way" the Chiefs are more than $2M over the cap.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 11:21 AM
"under"

Logical
11-16-2004, 11:21 AM
LOL...actually, I didnt define 'stood pat', that was BigRedChief. You and I are actually arguing the same thing. KC didnt 'stand pat', they just didnt sign what you or BRC wanted...which was my whole point all along.

OK I must have misread your respone post to BRC.

Logical
11-16-2004, 11:25 AM
Soren Petro said yesterday that anybody that thinks the Chiefs are more than $1M, or $2M, at most under the cap are DEAD WRONG.

That is definitely in dispute. The last national story on the subject had them 11 mil under with 5 mil needing to cover bonuses like TRich's and dead cap money from players not on the roster.

Calcountry
11-16-2004, 11:48 AM
Hell, package him with Carl Peterson and I'd do it for a sack of day-old donuts.
Make it day old Krispy Kremes' and you got yourself a deal. :thumb:

Calcountry
11-16-2004, 11:49 AM
I'm not a big Carl fan, but your post sort of cracked me up. He has made bad decisions, but you do realize who had the foresight to trade up and draft said TE?
Heck, trade him to the Dolphins for their Number one pick next year.

Cannibal
11-16-2004, 11:55 AM
I'm not a big Carl fan, but your post sort of cracked me up. He has made bad decisions, but you do realize who had the foresight to trade up and draft said TE?

That's true and I thought about it when I wrote it. But it was only one of a handful of good moves Carl has made. He needs to be shown the door.

Ghostof
11-16-2004, 11:58 AM
To me, that is pure lunacy!!

Yes, I think KC should devote all of it's '05 draft picks and all of it's available salary cap dollars toward defensive players. But trading a future Hall of Famer is crazy. Priest Holmes is the #1 key to our offense. Trent is the #2 key to our offense. But Tony G is a close #3. Without him, there would be a huge hole in our offense. Priest wouldn't get as much running room and the WR wouldn't be open as much.

What do you think?



Priest's injury is clouded yet again and worse then what the coach says it is. He's done for this year and he may have a career ending injury.

BigRedChief
11-16-2004, 12:04 PM
Priest's injury is clouded yet again and worse then what the coach says it is. He's done for this year and he may have a career ending injury.

And you get this information from where? Link please.

KCTitus
11-16-2004, 12:05 PM
profootballtalk.com would be my guess...