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Bruschi 3:16
11-23-2004, 09:11 AM
In watching last night's game, as a Pats fan, I tend to watch defenses very closely (result of being a Belichick fan). Anyhow, I think the problems KC has on defense are not so much the personnel (although that is a huge part of it), but also the schemes. There were many times when basic defensive plays were breaking down before the play was 3 seconds old. The CB's play soft and they don't give your safeties time to pick them up and it leads to wide open receivers in the middle of the field. KC needs an entire overhaul of defensive philosophies and then needs to find players to fit that philosophy. Until then, you are going to waste that offense of yours.

ChiTown
11-23-2004, 09:14 AM
Great, it took a Pat's fan 1 game to figure out what Carl hasn't been able to assess in 4 years.

Thanks for the take.....

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 09:16 AM
Great, it took a Pat's fan 1 game to figure out what Carl hasn't been able to assess in 4 years.


ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

John_Wayne
11-23-2004, 09:18 AM
In watching last night's game, as a Pats fan, I tend to watch defenses very closely (result of being a Belichick fan). Anyhow, I think the problems KC has on defense are not so much the personnel (although that is a huge part of it), but also the schemes. There were many times when basic defensive plays were breaking down before the play was 3 seconds old. The CB's play soft and they don't give your safeties time to pick them up and it leads to wide open receivers in the middle of the field. KC needs an entire overhaul of defensive philosophies and then needs to find players to fit that philosophy. Until then, you are going to waste that offense of yours.

It's the crappy players more than the schemes in my view. For example: the CB's play soft because they are crappy, untalented CBs.

Count Alex's Wins
11-23-2004, 09:18 AM
Our corners play soft? They certainly aren't playing 10 yards off the ball, if that's what you mean.

Most of the time they play right up in the face of the receiver. Trouble is, most of the time they aren't good enough to do that.

BigRedChief
11-23-2004, 09:19 AM
Jeezzz man we are the friggin chior. Unfortunatly Lamar is the head Preist and King Carl aint goning no where.

Get Pioli over here and we will ship you some really good geniune KC BBQ. Deal?

chiefs4me
11-23-2004, 09:19 AM
In watching last night's game, as a Pats fan, I tend to watch defenses very closely (result of being a Belichick fan). Anyhow, I think the problems KC has on defense are not so much the personnel (although that is a huge part of it), but also the schemes. There were many times when basic defensive plays were breaking down before the play was 3 seconds old. The CB's play soft and they don't give your safeties time to pick them up and it leads to wide open receivers in the middle of the field. KC needs an entire overhaul of defensive philosophies and then needs to find players to fit that philosophy. Until then, you are going to waste that offense of yours.


Hold on I'll get you carls number so you can call him up and tell him you have found the solution,,,,,,:rolleyes:

Coach
11-23-2004, 09:21 AM
It's deftinaly lack of talent and heart. Flags Battle was out there and he got whipped. Wesley didn't even dive for that ball that could had been intercepted. Our safties are too slow and can't tackle worth a f*ck. Our LB's overrun every single f*cking play and can't tackle worth a f*ck. Our DE's are getting sealed off nearly every single f*cking play, and still can't tackle worth a f*ck. Scheme? Naw. Talent and heart? Yeah.

Taco John
11-23-2004, 09:23 AM
I'm with the "it's crappy players more than anything" camp.

Just look at the defensive contracts that have been given out in the last three to five years.

Rain Man
11-23-2004, 09:28 AM
In my opinion, Warfield, Allen, and Dalton comprise the talent on our defense.

I don't know where the heck Fujita went this year - I see someone wearing #51 in the warmups, but then I never see him again. Same with Browning.

After that, you can say that Sims and Wesley have future potential, and even Bartee is looking better each game.

That leaves us with gaping holes at FS, SLB, MLB, and DE, and "areas needing improvement" at SS, RCB, LDT, and WLB. Other than that, the defense is pretty good.

CosmicPal
11-23-2004, 09:29 AM
I sat watching the game at the bar last night and simply amazed a couple of friends of mine by calling every defensive play the Chiefs pulled. It was too easy for me to spot a linebacker blitz or the linebackers to drop in a zone. All one had to do was look at their stance. Once I pointed these things out to my friends, they started calling the plays as well.

If a drunken azz like me can see what the Chiefs D is doing on television with great accuracy- imagine what a pro QB in the NFL can do when hes walking out of the huddle.

Not to mention, they lost this game on poor tackling and pass coverage skills.

Count Alex's Wins
11-23-2004, 09:29 AM
Fujita has 4 sacks.

KCJohnny
11-23-2004, 09:29 AM
We need at LEAST 1 shutdown CB (Sorry Warfield, we thought you could do it...but...) and a dominating MLB. Our LB play is pretty bad.

Iowanian
11-23-2004, 09:31 AM
How Brave to show up after the game....

The Corners appeared to me to be pretty physical in the beginning of the game, but had to back off after 2-3 iffy calls.

I don't think there is a LB on our team that would start for any other team in the NFL.

Lzen
11-23-2004, 09:36 AM
Eh, I don't know what game you're watching but must not have been the Chiefs Pats game. I was at the game. The corners play man up aggressive bump and run most of the time. I did notice on a couple straight plays that Julian Battle was out on the left side all by himself. He tried to bump and the receiver just got by him. Then, he didn't appear to make much of an effort to run fast to get back in position to make a play. Similar plays happened to him a few times on that drive. It's like Brady was just looking over at that side and thinking "I like this matchup". So the next play Battle gets a good bump on the receiver(borderline defensive holding) and Brady goes to someone else over the middle and nobody can tackle him. :banghead:

It's not the scheme. It's guys aren't executing the scheme. On the Pats first TD drive, Vonnie Holliday got sealed inside and allowed the TD. I was wondering what the heck he was doing out there. He was listed 3rd on the depth chart at the right defensive end as of yesterday. The thing about this defense is that they can make one or two good plays and then give up a big play. They can't consistently execute the scheme for some reason.

CHIEF4EVER
11-23-2004, 09:37 AM
About 2/3 of the "Defensive" personnel need to be shitecanned posthaste. That is because about 2/3 of our "Defensive" personnel can't tackle for squat, think angles are something they got an F in Trig class in in HS, and have all the aggressiveness of a tired sloth.

Rain Man
11-23-2004, 09:41 AM
It's not the scheme. It's guys aren't executing the scheme. On the Pats first TD drive, Vonnie Holliday got sealed inside and allowed the TD. I was wondering what the heck he was doing out there. He was listed 3rd on the depth chart at the right defensive end as of yesterday. The thing about this defense is that they can make one or two good plays and then give up a big play. They can't consistently execute the scheme for some reason.

Don't even get me started on Vonnie Holliday. On that one short-yardage play where the Chiefs stopped the Patriots cold and then the whistle didn't blow until Brady had time to get the first down, there was only one player who was getting pushed back. Vonnie Holliday. By a tight end.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 09:44 AM
Don't even get me started on Vonnie Holliday. On that one short-yardage play where the Chiefs stopped the Patriots cold and then the whistle didn't blow until Brady had time to get the first down, there was only one player who was getting pushed back. Vonnie Holliday. By a tight end.

If it was Daniel Graham (#82), let me say that he is a SUPERIOR blocking tight end. Among the best in the NFL.

Count Alex's Wins
11-23-2004, 09:48 AM
Don't even get me started on Vonnie Holliday. On that one short-yardage play where the Chiefs stopped the Patriots cold and then the whistle didn't blow until Brady had time to get the first down, there was only one player who was getting pushed back. Vonnie Holliday. By a tight end.

Holliday sucks. He isn't even going to have his annual "huge sack game" this year!

CHIEF4EVER
11-23-2004, 09:48 AM
If it was Daniel Graham (#82), let me say that he is a SUPERIOR blocking tight end. Among the best in the NFL.

Superior TE or not, that walking waste of space Holliday CANNOT allow himself to be taken out of a play by a friggin TE. NEVER.

Rain Man
11-23-2004, 09:50 AM
If it was Daniel Graham (#82), let me say that he is a SUPERIOR blocking tight end. Among the best in the NFL.


That's just mean.

Bruschi 3:16
11-23-2004, 09:54 AM
It's the crappy players more than the schemes in my view. For example: the CB's play soft because they are crappy, untalented CBs.

You can have outstanding defensive players, but if the scheme is bad, it won't matter. As someone who watches defenses very closely, you could put Ray Lewis, Ty Law, and Champ Bailey on KC and it won't make a huge impact. Cunningham's defensive game plan was so flawed last night it was painful. The simple rule is take away what your opponent does best. I saw none of that last night from KC. They let Brady do what he wanted, let Dillon run for 5 yards a pop late when they knew he'd get the ball, and let receivers run free all night. To me, it looks like the defense exists only to let the KC offense rest and get ready for the next drive. Fix the philosophy first, then get the players and you'll be fine.

Bruschi 3:16
11-23-2004, 09:58 AM
Eh, I don't know what game you're watching but must not have been the Chiefs Pats game. I was at the game. The corners play man up aggressive bump and run most of the time. I did notice on a couple straight plays that Julian Battle was out on the left side all by himself. He tried to bump and the receiver just got by him. Then, he didn't appear to make much of an effort to run fast to get back in position to make a play. Similar plays happened to him a few times on that drive. It's like Brady was just looking over at that side and thinking "I like this matchup". So the next play Battle gets a good bump on the receiver(borderline defensive holding) and Brady goes to someone else over the middle and nobody can tackle him. :banghead:

It's not the scheme. It's guys aren't executing the scheme. On the Pats first TD drive, Vonnie Holliday got sealed inside and allowed the TD. I was wondering what the heck he was doing out there. He was listed 3rd on the depth chart at the right defensive end as of yesterday. The thing about this defense is that they can make one or two good plays and then give up a big play. They can't consistently execute the scheme for some reason.

KC's corners played softer than any corners NE has seen all year. They bumped early, but let the NE receivers do whatever they wanted after that. Trust me on this, it's the scheme. NE won the Super Bowl vs. the Rams, not because they had better defensive players to match STL's offense, they schemed better. This isn't rotisserie/fantasy football, without a sound plan, players won't make a difference in the end.

CHIEF4EVER
11-23-2004, 09:58 AM
You can have outstanding defensive players, but if the scheme is bad, it won't matter. As someone who watches defenses very closely, you could put Ray Lewis, Ty Law, and Champ Bailey on KC and it won't make a huge impact. Cunningham's defensive game plan was so flawed last night it was painful. The simple rule is take away what your opponent does best. I saw none of that last night from KC. They let Brady do what he wanted, let Dillon run for 5 yards a pop late when they knew he'd get the ball, and let receivers run free all night. To me, it looks like the defense exists only to let the KC offense rest and get ready for the next drive. Fix the philosophy first, then get the players and you'll be fine.

I disagree. Give us Ray Ray, Ty and Champ and this D would be a monster.

vckcchiefs04
11-23-2004, 10:01 AM
Let's not try to pick this thing apart...... it is what it is, it sucks! Get Gunther all the players "HE" wants..... and judge him then. Until then they just suck and will continue to suck with these guys. Keep Warfield, Allen, and Dalton..... lose the rest for all I care.

Lzen
11-23-2004, 10:16 AM
KC's corners played softer than any corners NE has seen all year. They bumped early, but let the NE receivers do whatever they wanted after that. Trust me on this, it's the scheme. NE won the Super Bowl vs. the Rams, not because they had better defensive players to match STL's offense, they schemed better. This isn't rotisserie/fantasy football, without a sound plan, players won't make a difference in the end.

I watched the game at the stadium and zeroed in with my binoculars on certain players each play. At times I watched the corners. Other times I watched the defensive line. I will go back and watch the game on tv sometime this week (if I can force myself) to see for sure but, I think you're wrong.

Lzen
11-23-2004, 10:18 AM
Another thing, we know Gunther's scheme works. He had the top defense in the NFL in 2 seasons with the Chiefs in the mid 90s.

badgirl
11-23-2004, 11:39 AM
In watching last night's game, as a Pats fan, I tend to watch defenses very closely (result of being a Belichick fan). Anyhow, I think the problems KC has on defense are not so much the personnel (although that is a huge part of it), but also the schemes. There were many times when basic defensive plays were breaking down before the play was 3 seconds old. The CB's play soft and they don't give your safeties time to pick them up and it leads to wide open receivers in the middle of the field. KC needs an entire overhaul of defensive philosophies and then needs to find players to fit that philosophy. Until then, you are going to waste that offense of yours.From all this insightful knowledge where do you coach? Oh you don't sorry nlm

WilliamTheIrish
11-23-2004, 12:30 PM
You can have outstanding defensive players, but if the scheme is bad, it won't matter. As someone who watches defenses very closely, you could put Ray Lewis, Ty Law, and Champ Bailey on KC and it won't make a huge impact. Cunningham's defensive game plan was so flawed last night it was painful. The simple rule is take away what your opponent does best. I saw none of that last night from KC. They let Brady do what he wanted, let Dillon run for 5 yards a pop late when they knew he'd get the ball, and let receivers run free all night. To me, it looks like the defense exists only to let the KC offense rest and get ready for the next drive. Fix the philosophy first, then get the players and you'll be fine.


Uh huh. Sure.

I'm stupified by this defensive 'watching' genious. (CP spelling)

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:41 PM
Uh huh. Sure.
I'm stupified by this defensive 'watching' genious. (CP spelling)

:thumb:

tk13
11-23-2004, 01:33 PM
If you think that was "soft", you should've seen us last year....

Lzen
11-23-2004, 02:04 PM
Uh huh. Sure.

I'm stupified by this defensive 'watching' genious. (CP spelling)

:LOL:

No kidding. :shake:

Toad
11-23-2004, 08:43 PM
I don't think there is a LB on our team that would start for any other team in the NFL.

Exactly right!

Raiderhader
11-23-2004, 08:50 PM
In watching last night's game, as a Pats fan, I tend to watch defenses very closely (result of being a Belichick fan). Anyhow, I think the problems KC has on defense are not so much the personnel (although that is a huge part of it), but also the schemes. There were many times when basic defensive plays were breaking down before the play was 3 seconds old. The CB's play soft and they don't give your safeties time to pick them up and it leads to wide open receivers in the middle of the field. KC needs an entire overhaul of defensive philosophies and then needs to find players to fit that philosophy. Until then, you are going to waste that offense of yours.


What offense?

Raiderhader
11-23-2004, 08:50 PM
I watched the game at the stadium and zeroed in with my binoculars on certain players each play. At times I watched the corners. Other times I watched the defensive line. I will go back and watch the game on tv sometime this week (if I can force myself) to see for sure but, I think you're wrong.


Sadist.

Count Alex's Wins
11-23-2004, 08:52 PM
I think Fujita could start for a few teams.

Raiderhader
11-23-2004, 08:54 PM
I think Fujita could start for a few teams.


He has the potential to do so. Wether he would right now would depend soley upon the team (like us).

Hydrae
11-23-2004, 09:02 PM
Although I hear where you are coming from Bruschi, you will get nowhere trying to convince Chiefs fans that Gun is the problem. That is why he is here, because of the horrid schemes of the unnamed former DC.

The thing that has been driving me absolutely nuts is the lack of solid tackling all season. I get so tired of watching guys who are so concerned about trying to strip the ball that the ball carrier gets another 5-10 yards. The number one priority is to get that man on the ground. Period!

Count Alex's Wins
11-23-2004, 09:08 PM
He has the potential to do so. Wether he would right now would depend soley upon the team (like us).

Yeah, pretty much. I still would like to see him tried at MLB.