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jspchief
11-23-2004, 11:36 AM
Vermeil's job is done. He's finally removed all semblance of sack from this team.

I just got done watching Gonzo on ESPN, bitching about contact that wasn't called. Of course it's the refs fault, exactly like DV taught you. I was sick of watching Vermeil pass blame 8 weeks ago, now I have to watch our players do it too. At what point does this team stop passing the buck and start taking responsibility? When will Vermeil stop bitching about the roster limits, that the rest of the NFL's coaches have learned to live with? When will he call out a player for a stupid personal foul, instead of justifying it by saying you get away with it half the time? When will the guys that aren't getting the job done get benched instead of hugged? When do we lose a game because we under-performed, instead of the other team outplaying us? When is anyone accountable for failure in the Chiefs organization? The only guys that get blasted are the kicker, the punter, and a guy that's never been given a real chance to prove himself and silence his critics.

This team has no attitude and IMO it's direct reflection of our eunuch head coach. Our D doesn't know how to hit, but they know how to get slapped around and made fools of. Our O won't fight for a reception, but will beg for a flag on every incompletion. They look like a bunch pussies right now, and instead of getting mad, they're rolling over.

Just once I'd like to see some Parcells type disgust directed at a poor performance, instead of a tear, a hug, and a pat on the ass.

Bob Dole
11-23-2004, 11:43 AM
sniff, sniff

Molitoth
11-23-2004, 11:45 AM
That post is $$$$$$$$$$$$$ jsp.


When will the guys that aren't getting the job done get benched instead of hugged?

Biggest problem IMO.

jspchief
11-23-2004, 11:49 AM
sniff, sniff

Oh. You must like watching our players get bitch slapped.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 11:50 AM
The major difference between this years club and last years, aside from the turnovers, is the number of penalties that have been called on KC.

It's obvious that has gotten 'into the mind' of the club...

I have to wonder why KC wasnt flagged last year to the same degree...these ARE the same players on the field.

Ari Chi3fs
11-23-2004, 11:50 AM
i agree, get in their face instead of hugging them. Our boys have become soft as ****.

Bob Dole
11-23-2004, 11:53 AM
Oh. You must like watching our players get bitch slapped.

Not particularly.

sniff sniff.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 11:56 AM
I like DV, but I'll give a few examples of what the Patriots do:

1. A few weeks ago, a special teams specialist player on the Patriots badly whiffed on a tackle on a kickoff return (although he was in good position to make the tackle), and the dude ran it in for a touchdown. We ended up winning the game. On Wednesday after the game, the dude was cut and another player, who has been a ST specialist for us in prior years, and was cut at the end of training camp, was brought back.

2. Last week, our backup running back, who mainly does special teams, whiffed on a tackle (although he was in good position) on a punt return that went for a TD. We won that game 29-6. A couple days ago, that player was cut and another player, Justin Kurpeikis, who mainly does special teams and was cut by us at the end of training camp, was brought in.

3. Earthwind Moreland, a practice squad player who was forced into the starting lineup due to multiple injuries to our CBs, was burnt by you guys for two TDs (the only TDs we allowed). According to today's Boston Herald, even though nobody has any idea who will be manning one CB spot this upcoming Sunday:

"The sticker bearing Moreland's name and number above his locker was ripped off by the time the media entered the room. It was the only sticker removed."

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=55402

For good or for bad, there's one thing the Patriots preach -- accountability for performance.

jspchief
11-23-2004, 11:57 AM
The major difference between this years club and last years, aside from the turnovers, is the number of penalties that have been called on KC.

It's obvious that has gotten 'into the mind' of the club...

I have to wonder why KC wasnt flagged last year to the same degree...these ARE the same players on the field.

I agree that penalties are a huge factor. Unfortunately, all I ever hear from Vermeil about penalties is how we got jobbed by bad officiating.

Trent Green is on ESPN saying "We get a letter from the league every week saying 'sorry, we got that one wrong'". Okay. If you've figured out that they get calls wrong "every week", why don't you learn to accept it as part of the game and stop using it as a crutch to excuse a season that's swirling the drain. Control the ones you can control, get over the ones you can't.

It's just this whole mindset of making excuses and passing the buck.

Mile High Mania
11-23-2004, 11:57 AM
The major difference between this years club and last years, aside from the turnovers, is the number of penalties that have been called on KC.

It's obvious that has gotten 'into the mind' of the club...

I have to wonder why KC wasnt flagged last year to the same degree...these ARE the same players on the field.

Maybe GRob had more focus on the mental part of the game... I dunno.

Mile High Mania
11-23-2004, 11:59 AM
I agree that penalties are a huge factor. Unfortunately, all I ever hear from Vermeil about penalties is how we got jobbed by bad officiating.

Trent Green is on ESPN saying "We get a letter from the league every week saying 'sorry, we got that one wrong'". Okay. If you've figured out that they get calls wrong "every week", why don't you learn to accept it as part of the game and stop using it as a crutch to excuse a season that's swirling the drain. Control the ones you can control, get over the ones you can't.

It's just this whole mindset of making excuses and passing the buck.

I imagine that most teams get letters weekly ... officiating sucks for all teams. KC is just not a focused team.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 11:59 AM
Maybe GRob had more focus on the mental part of the game... I dunno.

You might be right...and you might want to don a flame retardant suit as well.

Mile High Mania
11-23-2004, 12:00 PM
You might be right...and you might want to don a flame retardant suit as well.

I was saying that as more of a "jab to the ribs".

Ari Chi3fs
11-23-2004, 12:00 PM
I like DV, but I'll give a few examples of what the Patriots do:

1. A few weeks ago, a special teams specialist player on the Patriots badly whiffed on a tackle on a kickoff return (although he was in good position to make the tackle), and the dude ran it in for a touchdown. We ended up winning the game. On Wednesday after the game, the dude was cut and another player, who has been a ST specialist for us in prior years, and was cut at the end of training camp, was brought back.

2. Last week, our backup running back, who mainly does special teams, whiffed on a tackle (although he was in good position) on a punt return that went for a TD. We won that game 29-6. A couple days ago, that player was cut and another player, Justin Kurpeikis, who mainly does special teams and was cut by us at the end of training camp, was brought in.

3. Earthwind Moreland, a practice squad player who was forced into the starting lineup due to multiple injuries to our CBs, was burnt by you guys for two TDs (the only TDs we allowed). According to today's Boston Herald, even though nobody has any idea who will be manning one CB spot this upcoming Sunday:

"The sticker bearing Moreland's name and number above his locker was ripped off by the time the media entered the room. It was the only sticker removed."

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=55402

For good or for bad, there's one thing the Patriots preach -- accountability for performance.


this is the precise reason you are on track for 3rd SB in 4 years.

Donger
11-23-2004, 12:02 PM
"The sticker bearing Moreland's name and number above his locker was ripped off by the time the media entered the room. It was the only sticker removed."

But that's, like, so mean!

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:02 PM
I agree that penalties are a huge factor. Unfortunately, all I ever hear from Vermeil about penalties is how we got jobbed by bad officiating.

Trent Green is on ESPN saying "We get a letter from the league every week saying 'sorry, we got that one wrong'". Okay. If you've figured out that they get calls wrong "every week", why don't you learn to accept it as part of the game and stop using it as a crutch to excuse a season that's swirling the drain. Control the ones you can control, get over the ones you can't.

It's just this whole mindset of making excuses and passing the buck.

A crutch? Im not seeing it...Im a firm believer that no team can beat the NFL referees no matter how hard they try to overcome it.

What the team can control is the turnovers...I wasnt too enamored with the whining about the no call against TG, the pass was a friggen bad pass. TG forced the ball.

BUT, when they're getting flagged for ticky tack calls and not getting the same in return, it's frustrating, and from what I can see, it has totally distracted the focus of this team to the point that the season has spiraled out of control.

PHOG
11-23-2004, 12:02 PM
this is the precise reason you are on track for 3rd SB in 4 years.

Yeah, but hell, three fourths of the lockers would be empty if the Chiefs did this.... :hmmm: :banghead:

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:04 PM
I was saying that as more of a "jab to the ribs".

Well, it tickled, because I laughed and wished I would have thought of that.

InChiefsHell
11-23-2004, 12:04 PM
I like DV, but I'll give a few examples of what the Patriots do:

1. A few weeks ago, a special teams specialist player on the Patriots badly whiffed on a tackle on a kickoff return (although he was in good position to make the tackle), and the dude ran it in for a touchdown. We ended up winning the game. On Wednesday after the game, the dude was cut and another player, who has been a ST specialist for us in prior years, and was cut at the end of training camp, was brought back.

2. Last week, our backup running back, who mainly does special teams, whiffed on a tackle (although he was in good position) on a punt return that went for a TD. We won that game 29-6. A couple days ago, that player was cut and another player, Justin Kurpeikis, who mainly does special teams and was cut by us at the end of training camp, was brought in.

3. Earthwind Moreland, a practice squad player who was forced into the starting lineup due to multiple injuries to our CBs, was burnt by you guys for two TDs (the only TDs we allowed). According to today's Boston Herald, even though nobody has any idea who will be manning one CB spot this upcoming Sunday:

"The sticker bearing Moreland's name and number above his locker was ripped off by the time the media entered the room. It was the only sticker removed."

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=55402

For good or for bad, there's one thing the Patriots preach -- accountability for performance.

Daaaaamn!! Billy boy don't play games does he...

...say, maybe we should pick up some of the guys y'all cut...DV'll make em feel good about themselves, guaranteed...

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:05 PM
this is the precise reason you are on track for 3rd SB in 4 years.

Possible, but I'm going to stick with finding Tom Brady as the reason.

Garcia Bronco
11-23-2004, 12:06 PM
What the team can control is the turnovers...I wasnt too enamored with the whining about the no call against TG, the pass was a friggen bad pass. TG forced the ball.

.


Thank you. Geeze..the bitching about that "No Call" is ridiculous.

StcChief
11-23-2004, 12:08 PM
Sounds like the Pats have the right idea. Put the fear of God in a player, that know position is secure.

Total pay for performance is the next step.

Iowanian
11-23-2004, 12:10 PM
The pussification started, when the Tacklin drills stopped.


the only hugs that should be seen near Arrowhead(asside from fans) is the displaced flubber shaping itself around the new Steal Toed Doc Martins the Coach is kicking them with.......

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:10 PM
...Total pay for performance is the next step.

That's a great idea...if this were in practice today, Lamar would be pocketing about 30M from the cap I would guess.

jspchief
11-23-2004, 12:17 PM
...Im a firm believer that no team can beat the NFL referees no matter how hard they try to overcome it.

Which is all the more reason to not blast them in the media every week. Making enemies of the refs can't help.

...What the team can control is the turnovers...I wasnt too enamored with the whining about the no call against TG, the pass was a friggen bad pass. TG forced the ball.


Yea, I can watch Dillon own up to his mistake, and Green blame the refs instead of his underthrown pass into double coverage, all in the same segment. It's like a diorama of the difference in mindest between winners and losers.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:20 PM
Which is all the more reason to not blast them in the media every week. Making enemies of the refs can't help.

No, it only exacerbates the problem...it's what I believe to be a major symptom of the current club's problem. I think they've lost focus, totally, at this point.

Calcountry
11-23-2004, 12:22 PM
Vermeil's job is done. He's finally removed all semblance of sack from this team.

I just got done watching Gonzo on ESPN, bitching about contact that wasn't called. Of course it's the refs fault, exactly like DV taught you. I was sick of watching Vermeil pass blame 8 weeks ago, now I have to watch our players do it too. At what point does this team stop passing the buck and start taking responsibility? When will Vermeil stop bitching about the roster limits, that the rest of the NFL's coaches have learned to live with? When will he call out a player for a stupid personal foul, instead of justifying it by saying you get away with it half the time? When will the guys that aren't getting the job done get benched instead of hugged? When do we lose a game because we under-performed, instead of the other team outplaying us? When is anyone accountable for failure in the Chiefs organization? The only guys that get blasted are the kicker, the punter, and a guy that's never been given a real chance to prove himself and silence his critics.

This team has no attitude and IMO it's direct reflection of our eunuch head coach. Our D doesn't know how to hit, but they know how to get slapped around and made fools of. Our O won't fight for a reception, but will beg for a flag on every incompletion. They look like a bunch pussies right now, and instead of getting mad, they're rolling over.

Just once I'd like to see some Parcells type disgust directed at a poor performance, instead of a tear, a hug, and a pat on the ass.
Hey, Parcells is 3-7 too. :p

Ari Chi3fs
11-23-2004, 12:23 PM
Yeah, but hell, three fourths of the lockers would be empty if the Chiefs did this.... :hmmm: :banghead:

yeah if they did this all at once... players on Chiefs are too complacent... if they were held accountable... then only a few would get cut and the rest would have got their shit together.

dirk digler
11-23-2004, 12:24 PM
Vermeil's job is done. He's finally removed all semblance of sack from this team.

I just got done watching Gonzo on ESPN, bitching about contact that wasn't called. Of course it's the refs fault, exactly like DV taught you. I was sick of watching Vermeil pass blame 8 weeks ago, now I have to watch our players do it too. At what point does this team stop passing the buck and start taking responsibility? When will Vermeil stop bitching about the roster limits, that the rest of the NFL's coaches have learned to live with? When will he call out a player for a stupid personal foul, instead of justifying it by saying you get away with it half the time? When will the guys that aren't getting the job done get benched instead of hugged? When do we lose a game because we under-performed, instead of the other team outplaying us? When is anyone accountable for failure in the Chiefs organization? The only guys that get blasted are the kicker, the punter, and a guy that's never been given a real chance to prove himself and silence his critics.

This team has no attitude and IMO it's direct reflection of our eunuch head coach. Our D doesn't know how to hit, but they know how to get slapped around and made fools of. Our O won't fight for a reception, but will beg for a flag on every incompletion. They look like a bunch pussies right now, and instead of getting mad, they're rolling over.

Just once I'd like to see some Parcells type disgust directed at a poor performance, instead of a tear, a hug, and a pat on the ass.


Great post jsp. :thumb:

There is absolutely no accountability within the Chiefs organization except for the punter and the kicker. DV doesn't mind calling out those guys but won't call out or punish or bench any of his other players. The players aren't scared to lose their jobs and are very complacent and they play that way.
I find it funny that the Patriots cut Earthwind Moreland after giving 2 TD's yet we can't bench 1 single starter on the worst defense in the league. Pathetic.

BigRedChief
11-23-2004, 12:26 PM
For a team playing like their season/respectability is on the line I didn't see a lot of passion. They didn't roll over or quit but in the NFL if you want to be successfull you have to get in peoples grills and get game on. Mano Mano. Aint no room for pussy's in the NFL. And the Chiefs look baby powder soft.

PHOG
11-23-2004, 12:26 PM
yeah if they did this all at once... players on Chiefs are too complacent... if they were held accountable... then only a few would get cut and the rest would have got their shit together.

Oh...don't get me wrong, I agree with the concept of accountability...I just think three fourths of the _efense has no shit to get together.

Straight, No Chaser
11-23-2004, 12:27 PM
I like DV, but I'll give a few examples of what the Patriots do:


Gawd, I'm getting tired of everything being compared to "what the Patriots do" by this guy.
Can't you get a consultants job somewhere?
Maybe you should call JAWS and give him your Blueprint.


3. Earthwind Moreland, a practice squad player who was forced into the starting lineup due to multiple injuries to our CBs, was burnt by you guys for two TDs (the only TDs we allowed). According to today's Boston Herald, even though nobody has any idea who will be manning one CB spot this upcoming Sunday:

"The sticker bearing Moreland's name and number above his locker was ripped off by the time the media entered the room. It was the only sticker removed."


OK, STFW? There are more warm bodies on the street in NE than KC. I saw that guy crouched over after he got hammered. He's probably in the hospital. He looked like a stick-figured 4A high schooler in need of steriods. Eventually, your team will fall off the high wire act you got going.


--->

Garcia Bronco
11-23-2004, 12:32 PM
Gawd, I'm getting tired of everything being compared to "what the Patriots do" by this guy.
Can't you get a consultants job somewhere?
Maybe you should call JAWS and give him your Blueprint.



OK, STFW? There are more warm bodies on the street in NE than KC. I saw that guy crouched over after he got hammered. He's probably in the hospital. He looked like a stick-figured 4A high schooler in need of steriods. Eventually, your team will fall off the high wire act you got going.


--->

I hope it's the Broncos, because we can beat those guys. #7 owned the Pats 16-0 lifetime....and we can beat them. Since then...it's about .500.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 12:40 PM
Gawd, I'm getting tired of everything being compared to "what the Patriots do" by this guy.
Can't you get a consultants job somewhere?
Maybe you should call JAWS and give him your Blueprint.



OK, STFW? There are more warm bodies on the street in NE than KC. I saw that guy crouched over after he got hammered. He's probably in the hospital. He looked like a stick-figured 4A high schooler in need of steriods. Eventually, your team will fall off the high wire act you got going.


--->

:deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:



:):p

The Bad Guy
11-23-2004, 12:42 PM
There is zero accountability with the Chiefs.

None. You screw up, the ass-kissing, whining head coach will make up some lame excuse for it.

To paraphrase.."If we went out and got another player, could he handle being 2-4 like Eric Hicks?"

I don't want players on this team that can handle being 2-4. I don't want players on this team that talk trash when they are losing and then gets immediately burnt.

Vermeil is one contradiction after another. He fires the DC after saying he's bringing him back but offers the new DC no help.

If you wanted to keep Robinson then that says that you need new players right?

To people with common sense it did.

Vermeil's legacy is overrated. He can take teams to the SB 3-4 years into his "program" because he has a lot of factors in his favor. 1) A last place schedule, 2) 1 out of 4 years you're bound to get lucky.

Look at his career record. If Vermeil was an asshole coach then he wouldn't get 1/5th of the praise he gets.

Yeah, he knows how to treat people. He knows how to find that stud offensive player, but the guy has NO clue how to run, pick players, or coach up a defense.

If he stays this year, he needs to stay out of EVERY defensive free agent and draft meeting. Every player that he's wanted has been a complete bust. Barber, Sims, Mitchell, Holliday.

The Chiefs also treat their draft picks as expendable. How many teams do you know that cut their 2nd round pick just 2 seasons after you drafted them?

Lamar Hunt needs to turn the team over to his kids because maybe they will have enough balls to hold the scouting department accountable for the god awful draft picks that this team has made. They are by far the worst drafting team in the NFL.

My rant is over. From the top this organization is run like shit. The end result reflects that.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 12:42 PM
I hope it's the Broncos * (* Violated the salary cap during their championship seasons), because we can beat those guys. #7 owned the Pats 16-0 lifetime....and we can beat them. Since then...it's about .500.

Good luck with that. You'll need to get through the wild card round again before you can get to the divisional round, assuming things hold up (and considering the Pats and Steelers schedules for the rest of the season (i.e. soft and softer), it's hard to see either of them giving up the strangleholds they have on the bye week).

Wile_E_Coyote
11-23-2004, 12:42 PM
in the history of ESPN, they have never had clips of players of the losing team crying about officiating...those dirty bastages

The Bad Guy
11-23-2004, 12:43 PM
Gawd, I'm getting tired of everything being compared to "what the Patriots do" by this guy.
Can't you get a consultants job somewhere?
Maybe you should call JAWS and give him your Blueprint.



OK, STFW? There are more warm bodies on the street in NE than KC. I saw that guy crouched over after he got hammered. He's probably in the hospital. He looked like a stick-figured 4A high schooler in need of steriods. Eventually, your team will fall off the high wire act you got going.


--->

Obviously the Patriots are doing something right. 2 Super Bowls in 3 years and a 9-1 record this year using offensive guys on defense and vice versa?

If this was the Chiefs, you would love the attention.

But sadly, the Chiefs aren't smart enough to pull off 1/100th of what the Pats do.

Scaga
11-23-2004, 12:44 PM
Vermeil's job is done. He's finally removed all semblance of sack from this team.

I just got done watching Gonzo on ESPN, bitching about contact that wasn't called. Of course it's the refs fault, exactly like DV taught you. I was sick of watching Vermeil pass blame 8 weeks ago, now I have to watch our players do it too. At what point does this team stop passing the buck and start taking responsibility? When will Vermeil stop bitching about the roster limits, that the rest of the NFL's coaches have learned to live with? When will he call out a player for a stupid personal foul, instead of justifying it by saying you get away with it half the time? When will the guys that aren't getting the job done get benched instead of hugged? When do we lose a game because we under-performed, instead of the other team outplaying us? When is anyone accountable for failure in the Chiefs organization? The only guys that get blasted are the kicker, the punter, and a guy that's never been given a real chance to prove himself and silence his critics.

This team has no attitude and IMO it's direct reflection of our eunuch head coach. Our D doesn't know how to hit, but they know how to get slapped around and made fools of. Our O won't fight for a reception, but will beg for a flag on every incompletion. They look like a bunch pussies right now, and instead of getting mad, they're rolling over.

Just once I'd like to see some Parcells type disgust directed at a poor performance, instead of a tear, a hug, and a pat on the ass.


100% agree....

Tampons for everyone of these pussies. :sulk:

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:45 PM
I don't want players on this team that can handle being 2-4.

I think you have them...I think this team never recovered from the 1-3 start and has spiraled out of control at this point.

This team cant handle the adversity and it's showing.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 12:46 PM
Obviously the Patriots are doing something right. 2 Super Bowls in 3 years and a 9-1 record this year using offensive guys on defense and vice versa?

If this was the Chiefs, you would love the attention.

But sadly, the Chiefs aren't smart enough to pull off 1/100th of what the Pats do.

You mean hit the lottery with a 6th round pick? I defy anyone to try to convince me that with Drew Bledsoe this team wins a single SB championship.

jspchief
11-23-2004, 12:49 PM
in the history of ESPN, they have never had clips of players of the losing team crying about officiating...those dirty bastages

Great point. Since other teams have looked like pusses in the past, it's OK for this team to do it.:rolleyes:

jspchief
11-23-2004, 12:51 PM
You mean hit the lottery with a 6th round pick? I defy anyone to try to convince me that with Drew Bledsoe this team wins a single SB championship.

Not everyone is going to win the jackpot, but we can't even win a free ticket.

The Bad Guy
11-23-2004, 12:52 PM
You mean hit the lottery with a 6th round pick? I defy anyone to try to convince me that with Drew Bledsoe this team wins a single SB championship.

How many 6th round picks have the Chiefs hit the lottery with.

Obviously, Brady wouldn't come in and do this for any team. They have the perfect system for his talents and have coached him to the player he is.

I'm talking about winning with injuries, putting offensive players on defense and not having a huge fallout. Getting guys like Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole and having them make a huge defensive impact.

Look at their offensive line, there's not one superstar, but they protect just as well as any line in the league.

Their receivers get the job done despite not being superstars.. Givens was a 6th rounder, Branch a 2nd rounder, Troy Brown has been around forever, David Patten was cast off 3 other teams.

Garcia Bronco
11-23-2004, 12:54 PM
Good luck with that. You'll need to get through the wild card round again before you can get to the divisional round, assuming things hold up (and considering the Pats and Steelers schedules for the rest of the season (i.e. soft and softer), it's hard to see either of them giving up the strangleholds they have on the bye week).

Like I said...if we get the chance...I think we'll match up well with you.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-23-2004, 12:54 PM
"Great point. Since other teams have looked like pusses in the past, it's OK for this team to do it.:rolleyes: "

ESPN has a formula also

Straight, No Chaser
11-23-2004, 12:55 PM
Obviously the Patriots are doing something right. 2 Super Bowls in 3 years and a 9-1 record this year using offensive guys on defense and vice versa?

If this was the Chiefs, you would love the attention.

But sadly, the Chiefs aren't smart enough to pull off 1/100th of what the Pats do.

:) Yea, you could be right, but there's no chance I'll find out this year.

The Pats are a good team and damn good org. right now. I told Amniocentesis that I would consider them a "great" team when they win another SB. After last night they are one step closer (I guess). Amnio has a great run going; evangelizing (?) the masses on the Pats "Blueprint". IMO, they are walking a tightrope with all the coaching moves and player injuries, etc. They are bound to fall off. Better for them if it happens before the playoffs. I see them and Pittsburgh getting into it for the AFC title.


---->

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 01:00 PM
How many 6th round picks have the Chiefs hit the lottery with.

Obviously, Brady wouldn't come in and do this for any team. They have the perfect system for his talents and have coached him to the player he is.

I'm talking about winning with injuries, putting offensive players on defense and not having a huge fallout. Getting guys like Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole and having them make a huge defensive impact.

Look at their offensive line, there's not one superstar, but they protect just as well as any line in the league.

Their receivers get the job done despite not being superstars.. Givens was a 6th rounder, Branch a 2nd rounder, Troy Brown has been around forever, David Patten was cast off 3 other teams.

I wasnt comparing KC to NE, I was speaking to getting lucky with a 6th rounder. I dont know really WTF that has to do with how many 'KC has hit the lottery with'--I wasnt really trying to make that point.

Two things... Let's not forget that before that season started, NE signed Bledsoe to the, then, largest contract in the NFL and NE started that season 1-3 when Brady came in everything changed.

Im glad for them, but I also realize that save for that injury to Bledsoe, they were nothing more than the average NFL team.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 01:10 PM
You mean hit the lottery with a 6th round pick? I defy anyone to try to convince me that with Drew Bledsoe this team wins a single SB championship.

I'd agree that we wouldn't have won a SB with Bledsoe.

I also agree that the Brady pick was partly luck, as in we didn't know how good he could be for us. But obviously, it's not like we just picked his name out of a hat when we picked him. We scouted two guys hard for that draft -- Brady and Rattay of the Niners, and we decided we wanted Brady.

Note well that the Patriots rarely strike out on high picks, and do very well for themselves with low round picks, draft day manuevering, undrafted free agents, etc.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 01:16 PM
...But obviously, it's not like we just picked his name out of a hat when we picked him.

Obviously...I would say every team in the NFL uses the same 'educated guess' approach to low round picks and hopes they pan out. This is nothing unique to the Patriots. Contrary to the conventional wisdom on this BB, even KC uses the same approach.

Im glad it worked out...it transformed a strong defense, shaky offense into a dynasty in a parity driven league.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 01:17 PM
Two things... Let's not forget that before that season started, NE signed Bledsoe to the, then, largest contract in the NFL and NE started that season 1-3 when Brady came in everything changed.

Im glad for them, but I also realize that save for that injury to Bledsoe, they were nothing more than the average NFL team.

You have enough knowledge to be dangerous, so let me fill in the gaps:

1. The Bledsoe signing/extension was as much a restructuring as anything else. It was THAT element that allowed us to trade him to Buffalo the next offseason without crushing our cap. Also, I'm sure you know as well as I that the "X years at Y dollars" is always inflated to assume every incentive is met, etc. If it was really those numbers, he would've been untradeable due to the salary cap hit (read: Peyton Manning).

2. Without the injury to Bledsoe, we would not have won the SB in '01. I will point out, however, that Belichick was getting ready to pull the trigger on Bledsoe for Brady (remember Kosar for Testaverde), although it would've gone on long enough to guarantee us a lost season in '01. It was already clear at the end of training camp that Brady had passed Damon Huard (former starter for Miami) on the depth chart, and was pushing Drew.

Don't make the mistake for a second of assuming that absent Mo Lewis (praise be his name!) nailing Bledsoe, he'd still be the Patriots' starter today. That is definitely not correct.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 01:18 PM
Obviously...I would say every team in the NFL uses the same 'educated guess' approach to low round picks and hopes they pan out. This is nothing unique to the Patriots. Contrary to the conventional wisdom on this BB, even KC uses the same approach.

Im glad it worked out...it transformed a strong defense, shaky offense into a dynasty in a parity driven league.

All draft picks at all positions and all rounds of the draft are "educated guesses".

Some organizations are better at educating themselves than others...

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 01:21 PM
You have enough knowledge to be dangerous, so let me fill in the gaps:

1. The Bledsoe signing/extension was as much a restructuring as anything else. It was THAT element that allowed us to trade him to Buffalo the next offseason without crushing our cap. Also, I'm sure you know as well as I that the "X years at Y dollars" is always inflated to assume every incentive is met, etc. If it was really those numbers, he would've been untradeable due to the salary cap hit (read: Peyton Manning).

2. Without the injury to Bledsoe, we would not have won the SB in '01. I will point out, however, that Belichick was getting ready to pull the trigger on Bledsoe for Brady (remember Kosar for Testaverde), although it would've gone on long enough to guarantee us a lost season in '01. It was already clear at the end of training camp that Brady had passed Damon Huard (former starter for Miami) on the depth chart, and was pushing Drew.

Don't make the mistake for a second of assuming that absent Mo Lewis (praise be his name!) nailing Bledsoe, he'd still be the Patriots' starter today. That is definitely not correct.

That's parsing...Since Im not a fan of the NE Pats, Im not going to pretend to know the 'inner workings' of the personnel decisions prior to that change. I can tell you what I saw as an observer from a disinterested position.

The above doesnt change my position that Brady is the key to a lion's share of NE's success.

jspchief
11-23-2004, 01:21 PM
Didn't Bledsoe come in and jumpstart a stagnant offense to win one of your play-off games? I don't really have a point other than that without Bledsoe, you probably wouldn't have that first Superbowl.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 01:22 PM
All draft picks at all positions and all rounds of the draft are "educated guesses".

Some organizations are better at educating themselves than others...

Preaching to the choir.

Baby Lee
11-23-2004, 01:22 PM
DV is paralyzed by the success of sticking with his ingredients to cook up a SB stew with the Rams. He is convinced that playing together and cohering will eventually result in greater success than having his players in constant fear of being cut and the roster becoming a revolving door. I told you guys from jump street that was his approach. I also said that it working once is no guarantee here.

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 01:25 PM
Didn't Bledsoe come in and jumpstart a stagnant offense to win one of your play-off games? I don't really have a point other than that without Bledsoe, you probably wouldn't have that first Superbowl.

He came in at the end of the first half of the Steelers AFC Championship game and threw a TD. It was our only offensive TD that game (we had 1 or 2 on Special Teams as well).

He gets a share of credit for it, but there's no way of knowing what would have happened in the 2nd half with Brady in there (Bledsoe was mediocre in the 2nd half).

Amnorix
11-23-2004, 01:27 PM
The above doesnt change my position that Brady is the key to a lion's share of NE's success.

I understand what you're saying, but all successful franchises have very good or great QBs under center, and it's hardly true that all of them were highly touted draft picks.

Only exception to this I can think of is the Gibbs' Redskins teams.

Brock
11-23-2004, 01:30 PM
DV is paralyzed by the success of sticking with his ingredients to cook up a SB stew with the Rams. He is convinced that playing together and cohering will eventually result in greater success than having his players in constant fear of being cut and the roster becoming a revolving door. I told you guys from jump street that was his approach. I also said that it working once is no guarantee here.

I tiresome I told you so? You're better than that.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 01:31 PM
I understand what you're saying, but all successful franchises have very good or great QBs under center, and it's hardly true that all of them were highly touted draft picks.

Only exception to this I can think of is the Gibbs' Redskins teams.

Again, it's not the point Im trying to make...Joe Montana wasnt a highly touted pick either. What Im trying to point out is that Brady coming onto the scene put the club over the hump as it were--kind of like what happened with Warner and the Rams.

That change was the catalyst to the success that NE is seeing to this day.

So, I guess, if KC were to follow NE's success, they need to get lucky and find a monster MLB or shutdown DB of the next Derrick Thomas in the 6th round...

Problem is, KC's not that lucky.

Baby Lee
11-23-2004, 01:34 PM
I tiresome I told you so? You're better than that.
OK. How about I told you and told you and told you, and people still haven't figured it out?

Gee, why does DV stick with these guys? If CP forcing it on him? Does he have no ability to assess talent? Is Lamar refusing to loosen the pursestrings? Has just recently went senile? It's got to be something other than the bedrock fact that this is his approach. Always has been, always will be.

Garcia Bronco
11-23-2004, 01:35 PM
Didn't Bledsoe come in and jumpstart a stagnant offense to win one of your play-off games? I don't really have a point other than that without Bledsoe, you probably wouldn't have that first Superbowl.
Yeah...he threw a TD pass to PAtten that he never caught. The ball hit the ground as he rolled and the Refs called it a TD.

KCTitus
11-23-2004, 01:36 PM
Gee, why does DV stick with these guys? If CP forcing it on him? Does he have no ability to assess talent? Is Lamar refusing to loosen the pursestrings? Has just recently went senile? It's got to be something other than the bedrock fact that this is his approach. Always has been, always will be.

I thought he switched approaches while in STL...he used to run hard, grueling practices and the team damn near mutinied and he went to the softer gentler approach.

Garcia Bronco
11-23-2004, 01:37 PM
He came in at the end of the first half of the Steelers AFC Championship game and threw a TD. It was our only offensive TD that game (we had 1 or 2 on Special Teams as well).

He gets a share of credit for it, but there's no way of knowing what would have happened in the 2nd half with Brady in there (Bledsoe was mediocre in the 2nd half).
A TD pass that was never caught. Check the tape.

Straight, No Chaser
11-23-2004, 01:41 PM
I understand what you're saying, but all successful franchises have very good or great QBs under center, and it's hardly true that all of them were highly touted draft picks.

Only exception to this I can think of is the Gibbs' Redskins teams.


Remember that Dilfer?

Baby Lee
11-23-2004, 01:43 PM
Problem is, KC's not that lucky.
Deron Cherry
Kevin Ross
Todd McNair
Dave Szott

No Bradys, true. But a couple of gems in there.

Baby Lee
11-23-2004, 01:46 PM
I thought he switched approaches while in STL...he used to run hard, grueling practices and the team damn near mutinied and he went to the softer gentler approach.
Approach yes, but only after he was convinced that the personnel were gelling and all fit the 'profile.'

memyselfI
11-23-2004, 07:00 PM
Vermeil's job is done. He's finally removed all semblance of sack from this team.

I just got done watching Gonzo on ESPN, bitching about contact that wasn't called. Of course it's the refs fault, exactly like DV taught you. I was sick of watching Vermeil pass blame 8 weeks ago, now I have to watch our players do it too. At what point does this team stop passing the buck and start taking responsibility? When will Vermeil stop bitching about the roster limits, that the rest of the NFL's coaches have learned to live with? When will he call out a player for a stupid personal foul, instead of justifying it by saying you get away with it half the time? When will the guys that aren't getting the job done get benched instead of hugged? When do we lose a game because we under-performed, instead of the other team outplaying us? When is anyone accountable for failure in the Chiefs organization? The only guys that get blasted are the kicker, the punter, and a guy that's never been given a real chance to prove himself and silence his critics.

This team has no attitude and IMO it's direct reflection of our eunuch head coach. Our D doesn't know how to hit, but they know how to get slapped around and made fools of. Our O won't fight for a reception, but will beg for a flag on every incompletion. They look like a bunch pussies right now, and instead of getting mad, they're rolling over.

Just once I'd like to see some Parcells type disgust directed at a poor performance, instead of a tear, hug, and a pat on the ass.

Sorry, but when you un-retire a weepy Grandma and hand him keys to the shop the contents will resemble said emotionally loopy old lady...

that being said. You guys are hysterically negative in your comments on this board about puzzy...unless it's in front of you. ROFL I can't believe something so universally adored could end up being such the insult... :hmmm:

BIG_DADDY
11-23-2004, 07:08 PM
Sorry, but when you unretire a weepy Grandma and hand him keys to the shop the contents will resemble said emotionally loopy old lady...

:

Everything isn't about you, he was talking about Dick Vermeil.

shaneo69
11-23-2004, 07:10 PM
You guys are hystically negative in your comments on this board about puzzy...unless it's in front of you. ROFL I can't believe something so universally adored could end up being such the insult... :hmmm:

WTH does "hystically" mean?

memyselfI
11-23-2004, 07:13 PM
WTH does "hystically" mean?

It means I hate typing on this freakin laptop keyboard...

hysterically!!!! ROFL

I'll fix.

Nelson Muntz
11-23-2004, 08:15 PM
Yeah...he threw a TD pass to PAtten that he never caught. The ball hit the ground as he rolled and the Refs called it a TD.



A TD pass that was never caught. Check the tape.


But I thought it was bad to whine about bad calls. I thought we were just supposed to accept them as part of the game? I could have sworn thats what you and taco juanita told us.