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Jenson71
11-24-2004, 05:06 PM
Anyone planning on watching this? It's Oliver Stone's near 3 hour epic about Alexander the Great, played by Colin Farrell. Angelina Jolie, Val Kilmer, and Anthony Hopkins also star. I'm going to see it on Friday, although it's being critically ripped apart.

Jenson71
11-24-2004, 05:07 PM
And less than three weeks til Scorsese's The Aviator. :thumb: Will it get him his first Oscar?

FAX
11-24-2004, 05:10 PM
Mr. Jenson71, although I don't know how well the movie will be done, the story of Alexander is very interesting, indeed.

For example, I believe that his parents actually hired Socrates as his tutor.

FAX

Count Zarth
11-24-2004, 05:13 PM
Oliver Stone sucks.

Jenson71
11-24-2004, 05:19 PM
Of Stone movies, I've seen Platoon, JFK, and Any Given Sunday. I was too young to fully understand Platoon. I really liked JFK. Any Given Sunday was average at best. AGS featured the "cool" shaky action camera. If Alexander's battle scenes are made in that style I will snap.

Mr. Laz
11-24-2004, 05:23 PM
if we can find a way to combine the anglina jolie part of this thread with the "topless chick" thread I'm there :thumb:

SNR
11-24-2004, 05:23 PM
Mr. Jenson71, although I don't know how well the movie will be done, the story of Alexander is very interesting, indeed.

For example, I believe that his parents actually hired Socrates as his tutor.

FAXMany thought that he was gay.

(Yes, really)




(Seriously)



(No, I'm not making this up)

FAX
11-24-2004, 05:26 PM
Oliver Stone sucks.

I could not agree more, Mr. UserName. As a filmmaker, he abandons history in favor of his bank account. However, the Alexander story is quite remarkable. Unlike any other in history as his life intersects with many, many other historical legends.

FAX

Count Zarth
11-24-2004, 05:27 PM
If Alexander's battle scenes are made in that style I will snap.

Guess what? They are!

I'm pretty sure the naked dong scene in AGS started me down the dark path to meatpeeking.

KC Jones
11-24-2004, 05:29 PM
I'm sure the History Channels version will be better, although skimpier on the wardrobe, stunt, and epic battle scenes portion of the budget.

jcl-kcfan2
11-24-2004, 06:24 PM
Alexander wasn't blonde...

Count Zarth
11-24-2004, 06:36 PM
Alexander wasn't blonde...

Jesus was a black man, too.

Threader
11-24-2004, 06:41 PM
Alexander was, indeed "gay". Although ideas about sexuality were far different in those times than they are now. It wasn't unusual at all in his time.

Frazod
11-24-2004, 06:43 PM
Stone hasn't made a decent movie in years, and the last two of his that I did see, Natural Born Killers and U-Turn, were absolutely f#cking vile.

I normally go for historical epics in a big way, but this turd gets no more of my money. I'll pass.

DJay23
11-24-2004, 07:39 PM
I saw it already when it was called "Braveheart."

Valiant
11-24-2004, 08:27 PM
Guess what? They are!

I'm pretty sure the naked dong scene in AGS started me down the dark path to meatpeeking.



You must offer these gems up to your god, huh?

Count Zarth
11-24-2004, 08:30 PM
You must offer these gems up to your god, huh?

Now you're just confusing me...

Spicy McHaggis
11-24-2004, 08:46 PM
Val Kilmer still acts? Damn. No matter how good his performance is in Alexander though it can't touch his Oscar worthy portrayal in "Real Genius". Anyone else miss the 80's, cuz I sure as hell don't.

http://cache.eonline.com/Features/Features/Heatwave2002/Tv/Dvds/Images/dvd_genious.jpg

Miles
11-24-2004, 10:16 PM
Oliver Stone has only made 3 really good movies in Salvador, Platoon and Wall-street and they were all made during the same 2-3 yr period. Since then all he has made are bunch of mediocre to horrible films.

I had heard the reviews were bad for the one but Wow I didn’t realize they were this bad:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alexander/

I love this one:

"Oliver Stone doesn't just create trainwrecks. He knocks the train off the rails, sets it on fire, then kills every person onboard. (And takes three hours to do it.)"-- Eric D. Snider

The Pedestrian
11-24-2004, 10:38 PM
Mr. Jenson71, although I don't know how well the movie will be done, the story of Alexander is very interesting, indeed.

For example, I believe that his parents actually hired Socrates as his tutor.

FAX

You were mighty close, FAX. Aristotle was Alexander's tutor.

Oh and to everyone about the controversy surrounding the movie: yes, Alexander had been bi-sexual.

beer bacon
11-24-2004, 10:45 PM
You were mighty close, FAX. Aristotle was Alexander's tutor.

Oh and to everyone about the controversy surrounding the movie: yes, Alexander had been bi-sexual.

His father, King Philip, was killed by a pissed off ex-male lover.

The Pedestrian
11-24-2004, 10:47 PM
His father, King Philip, was killed by a pissed off ex-male lover.

IIRC, King Philip's wife was involved in it, right?

the Talking Can
11-24-2004, 10:53 PM
the USA Today gave it a 1/2 star....and they usually love shitty movies

Jenson71
11-24-2004, 10:57 PM
Ebert gave it two sympathy stars.

Jenson71
11-24-2004, 11:14 PM
Guess what? They are!


That's frustrating, if so. I wonder what brilliant group of guys came up with that in the first place? Was it Braveheart?

Jenson71
11-26-2004, 11:11 PM
Yeah, it wasn't very good, although I guess it didn't feel like 3 hours. So that's a plus. The battle scenes aren't impressive and are capped off by the "in-action" moving camera that I hate so much. The acting and accents aren't convincing. It follows pretty much the same as any old historic sandles and robes film. Some political-land mumbo jumbo here, then a big fight there, and so on.

One shot reflects Gone With the Wind's famous overlook on the wounded and dead Civil War soldiers, and Angelina Jolie gives a line that seems to mock Vito Corleone.

One scene, featuring the elephant vs. horse shot, tries to do way to much style-wise. Scenery turns red, slow motion comes into affect. And the blood looks like ketchup and mustard.

All in all a careless, meaningless bloodfest. I can't wait for The Aviator.

Deberg_1990
11-26-2004, 11:15 PM
Yeah, it wasn't very good, although I guess it didn't feel like 3 hours. So that's a plus. The battle scenes aren't impressive and are capped off by the "in-action" moving camera that I hate so much. The acting and accents aren't convincing. It follows pretty much the same as any old historic sandles and robes film. Some political-land mumbo jumbo here, then a big fight there, and so on.

One shot reflects Gone With the Wind's famous overlook on the wounded and dead Civil War soldiers, and Angelina Jolie gives a line that seems to mock Vito Corleone.

One scene, featuring the elephant vs. horse shot, tries to do way to much style-wise. Scenery turns red, slow motion comes into affect. And the blood looks like ketchup and mustard.

All in all a careless, meaningless bloodfest. I can't wait for The Aviator.

Man that sucks to hear. It appears that Stone was out of his element a little bit with this flick. Its too bad he seems to have gone off the deep end a little bit the past few years. From 1986 to the mid 1990's all of his films were brilliant.

Jenson71
11-26-2004, 11:23 PM
What do you think you'll be seeing this holiday season Deberg?

Ocean's Twelve
The Life Aquatic
The Aviator
Meet the Fockers
Closer - depending on reviews

Jenson71
11-26-2004, 11:25 PM
I really hope one of the two theaters around here get Spacey's Beyond the Sea too. But I doubt it.

Miles
11-26-2004, 11:28 PM
"A Very Long Engagement" is comming out in a few weeks too. I have been looking forward to that one for a while.

Count Zarth
11-26-2004, 11:30 PM
I really hope one of the two theaters around here get Spacey's Beyond the Sea too. But I doubt it.

If it's worth a crap it will be available for download.

Deberg_1990
11-26-2004, 11:31 PM
What do you think you'll be seeing this holiday season Deberg?

Ocean's Twelve
The Life Aquatic
The Aviator
Meet the Fockers
Closer - depending on reviews

Oceans Twelve definately, I loved the first one.

Life Aquatic Definenately, Bill Murry is a god and Wes Anderson is always quirky and interesting.

Aviator probably so, it really doesnt look that good though, but its Scorcese so definately!

Meet the Fockers Yes! First one was hilarious

Closer, probably not. Doesnt look that interesting...

I also want to see Blade 3. Call me an idiot, but i thought the first 2 Blade movies were pretty badass in theor own way.

and Million Dollar Baby, Clint Eastwood's lastest is supposed to be the Oscar Wildcard this year...

Fried Meat Ball!
11-26-2004, 11:33 PM
I'm a full-time film critic and thought it was awful.

My quote for the film would be: "It's another film to add to the list that has become Oliver Stone's mediocrity."

I was really looking forward to this film and was truly disappointed. Overall, it was crap.

Someone mentioned Val Kilmer -- in my opinion, he was the lone shining star. His scenes were great, save one. The one that wasn't outstanding was crap because of the script -- it was out of place.

Miserable dialogue and serviceable acting, not to mention it's about 73 minutes too long, make for a VERY long viewing experience.

If you have any specific questions about this, let me know. I'll answer as best as I can.

I posted this in last week's Night Crew...


I've said before that Stone was good before he became Oliver Stone, the institution. Anything prior to Natural Born Killers was good, IMO. Wallstreet and Platoon are great films... not good, great. But his stuff is just so self-indulgent nowadays that he doesn't seem to care about the audience... it's cinematic masturbation, if you ask me, and it's the only unforgiveable sin in filmmaking.

The guy I saw it with said this: "There were two good things about that film... Rosario Dawson's left breast and Rosario Dawson's right breast."

Miles
11-26-2004, 11:34 PM
I also want to see Blade 3. Call me an idiot, but i thought the first 2 Blade movies were pretty badass in theor own way.


I cant wait for Life Aquatic. The Anderson - Murry combo is cant miss.

Yeah i liked the Blade movies too. They are great action movies and really enjoyable. The first one was much better than the second but the second was still enjoyable.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-26-2004, 11:35 PM
What do you think you'll be seeing this holiday season Deberg?

Ocean's Twelve
The Life Aquatic
The Aviator
Meet the Fockers
Closer - depending on reviews

I'll be reviewing Closer on Tuesday... I'll try to jump on and give a glimpse before I write my review. In the very least, it has a naked Natalie Portman, and a naked Natalie Portman is ALWAYS a good thing. :thumb:

Deberg_1990
11-26-2004, 11:37 PM
I'll be reviewing Closer on Tuesday... I'll try to jump on and give a glimpse before I write my review. In the very least, it has a naked Natalie Portman, and a naked Natalie Portman is ALWAYS a good thing. :thumb:

Yea i heard that too......shes hot , dont get me wrong, but I'll always remember her as the little girl in the Professional, so its hard to get all hot for her.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-26-2004, 11:39 PM
Yea i heard that too......shes hot , dont get me wrong, but I'll always remember her as the little girl in the Professional, so its hard to get all hot for her.

Dammit! I always think about that, too, when I think too much about Natalie Portman... but usually I stick with Queen Amidala, so that'll cure my ails! I do understand, though, that Nichols (the director) cut her full frontal scene... :cuss: Now THAT'S a disappointment.

Miles
11-26-2004, 11:40 PM
Dammit! I always think about that, too, when I think too much about Natalie Portman... but usually I stick with Queen Amidala, so that'll cure my ails! I do understand, though, that Nichols (the director) cut her full frontal scene... :cuss: Now THAT'S a disappointment.

One can allways hope there will be a directors cut DVD.

Jenson71
11-26-2004, 11:41 PM
A professional film critic eh? I expect good things out of you...:D

Alright, cmon, what's your all-time favorite movie?

Count Zarth
11-26-2004, 11:41 PM
I have no interest in seeing a stripper movie in which the stripper has small tits.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-26-2004, 11:50 PM
A professional film critic eh? I expect good things out of you...:D

Alright, cmon, what's your all-time favorite movie?

Easy, The Godfather. Not BEST film of all time, but favorite. Probably #2 overall best.

Best, gotta go with Citizen Kane. Just watched that again last week with the wife... what a great film.


I have no interest in seeing a stripper movie in which the stripper has small tits.

I have a thing for tits in general... big, small... whatever. They can be flat as a board or up to a large C cup... not into huge tits. Favorites have to be small and perky. To each his own, I guess. :hmmm:

Deberg_1990
11-26-2004, 11:53 PM
Demi Moore in Striptease was quite convincing as a stripper...

Fried Meat Ball!
11-26-2004, 11:53 PM
Demi Moore in Striptease was quite convincing as a stripper...

Demi Moore is quite convincing as a stripper.

Miles
11-27-2004, 12:06 AM
Easy, The Godfather. Not BEST film of all time, but favorite. Probably #2 overall best.

Best, gotta go with Citizen Kane. Just watched that again last week with the wife... what a great film.

Citizen Kane was on TCM last week so i recorded it. Its been a few years since i have seen it so i definitly need to watch it again. I remember the camerawork and lighing were really badass.

However i think i may like The Third Man more than Kane.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 12:16 AM
i think i may like The Third Man more than Kane.

The Third Man is also outstanding, and is definitely up there. I get weird looks when I say this: "2001" is as near to a perfect film as has ever been made. Perfectionist director Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece, IMO.

Count Zarth
11-27-2004, 12:18 AM
Demi Moore is quite convincing as a stripper.

The big tits helped.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 12:22 AM
The big tits helped.

So does the fact that when she did Striptease she actually looked like a stripper... but yes, you're right -- the big, fake tits do help. You got me on that one. :)

Miles
11-27-2004, 12:25 AM
The Third Man is also outstanding, and is definitely up there. I get weird looks when I say this: "2001" is as near to a perfect film as has ever been made. Perfectionist director Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece, IMO.

Nah you shouldnt get weird looks for it, 2001 is amazing. The only possible flaw it has is its slow pacing which can also be seen as one of its strenghts. I love the movie and the last 15-20 minutes are completly brilliant.

What you say about 2001 being a perfect film is how i feel about The Third Man. Another one that i think that about is The Rules of the Game.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 12:29 AM
Nah you shouldnt get weird looks for it, 2001 is amazing. The only possible flaw it has is its slow pacing which can also be seen as one of its strenghts. I love the movie and the last 15-20 minutes are completly brilliant.

What you say about 2001 being a perfect film is how i feel about The Third Man. Another one that i think that about is The Rules of the Game.

I would definitely put 2001's pace as one of its strengths. I did a paper in college about it, and out of curiosity I timed for the first word of dialogue. The first word of dialogue isn't until 29 minutes into the film. That's amazing.

No argument about The Third Man, though. It is great. Never seen The Rules of the Game...

Deberg_1990
11-27-2004, 12:33 AM
I would definitely put 2001's pace as one of its strengths. I did a paper in college about it, and out of curiosity I timed for the first word of dialogue. The first word of dialogue isn't until 29 minutes into the film. That's amazing.

No argument about The Third Man, though. It is great. Never seen The Rules of the Game...

Yea, 2001 could almost work as a silent film, or without dialoge at least.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 12:36 AM
Yea, 2001 could almost work as a silent film, or without dialoge at least.

I'm a HUGE Kubrick fan... hell, I even loved Eyes Wide Shut. I've seen 'em all, and Kubrick is the man. As an aspiring filmmaker, Kubrick is absolutely an inspiration. I study him quite a bit. Him and Tim Burton, Francis Ford Coppola, and, of course, the master of them all, Alfred Hitchcock.

Deberg_1990
11-27-2004, 12:39 AM
I'm a HUGE Kubrick fan... hell, I even loved Eyes Wide Shut. I've seen 'em all, and Kubrick is the man. As an aspiring filmmaker, Kubrick is absolutely an inspiration. I study him quite a bit. Him and Tim Burton, Francis Ford Coppola, and, of course, the master of them all, Alfred Hitchcock.


Yeah, Kubrick is one of my faves as well...Hes just so much different and out there than anyone else.

Miles
11-27-2004, 12:42 AM
I would definitely put 2001's pace as one of its strengths. I did a paper in college about it, and out of curiosity I timed for the first word of dialogue. The first word of dialogue isn't until 29 minutes into the film. That's amazing.

No argument about The Third Man, though. It is great. Never seen The Rules of the Game...

You should definitly try and check out The Rules of the Game. Many of the older film critics put it up there with Citizen Kane. Great use of deep focus shots (pre Kane), social commentary and its also really entertaining. If you use netfix they have it and its a great criterion release.

Miles
11-27-2004, 12:47 AM
I'm a HUGE Kubrick fan... hell, I even loved Eyes Wide Shut. I've seen 'em all, and Kubrick is the man. As an aspiring filmmaker, Kubrick is absolutely an inspiration. I study him quite a bit. Him and Tim Burton, Francis Ford Coppola, and, of course, the master of them all, Alfred Hitchcock.

I love Kubrick's films. In my opinion 2001, Clockwork Orange, The Shining and Paths of Glory are amoung the best films ever made.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 12:51 AM
You should definitly try and check out The Rules of the Game. Many of the older film critics put it up there with Citizen Kane. Great use of deep focus shots (pre Kane), social commentary and its also really entertaining. If you use netfix they have it and its a great criterion release.

I'll check it out... if it's Criterion, I may have to buy it! :) I seem to have a problem with saying "NO" to Criterion disks... love 'em. Actually, truth be told, I seem to have a problem saying "NO" to buying DVDs..... I have WAY too many.

Miles
11-27-2004, 12:57 AM
I'll check it out... if it's Criterion, I may have to buy it! :) I seem to have a problem with saying "NO" to Criterion disks... love 'em. Actually, truth be told, I seem to have a problem saying "NO" to buying DVDs..... I have WAY too many.

Its a nice 2 disc edition too.

I have a weakness for Criterion discs too. I only have a handful of them but i rent em quit a lot. The restoration they do, picture quality and the extras are really badass.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 01:00 AM
Its a nice 2 disc edition too.

I have a weakness for Criterion discs too. I only have a handful of them but i rent em quit a lot. The restoration they do, picture quality and the extras are really badass.

I think I have 40-45 of the Criterions... plus a handful of the Criterion laser disks. I've been a big fan of theirs for some time. The disks are always worth what you pay for them.

Miles
11-27-2004, 01:08 AM
I think I have 40-45 of the Criterions... plus a handful of the Criterion laser disks. I've been a big fan of theirs for some time. The disks are always worth what you pay for them.

Thats an impressive collection. :thumb:

I was sold on them when i rented The Third Man as my local Blocbuster a while back. I was really suprised at how an old movie could look so damn good.

Im always looking for stuff to rent. What are you favorite Criterions?

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 01:18 AM
Thats an impressive collection. :thumb:

I was sold on them when i rented The Third Man as my local Blocbuster a while back. I was really suprised at how an old movie could look so damn good.

Im always looking for stuff to rent. What are you favorite Criterions?

Any of the Kurosawa films (esp. Ikiru, The Seven Samurai, Hidden Fotress, Sanjuro/Yojimbo), the five Hitchcock's are excellent, as well. The transfer for Charade is amazing. The Lady Eve and The Last Temptation of Christ are great ones. If you're in the mood for weird, Man Bites Dog is a good disk, too. The Samurai Trilogy, Straw Dogs, and the Brazil set are amazing. You might recognize a lot of Japanese samurai films -- that's actually thanks to my wife. I'd seen a few, but she grew up with a mother who was obsessed with the Japanese culture, and watched a bunch of Japanese films...

Yours?

Tribal Warfare
11-27-2004, 01:27 AM
guys don't forget Oliver Stone wrote Scarface

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 01:30 AM
guys don't forget Oliver Stone wrote Scarface

He also wrote Any Given Sunday and Conan The Barbarian...

No real argument, though, the guy can write a helluva script. But he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a camera until he proves he's done making crap. I'm not sure how he can prove that after a decade of garbage, but he must pay.

Miles
11-27-2004, 01:35 AM
Any of the Kurosawa films (esp. Ikiru, The Seven Samurai, Hidden Fotress, Sanjuro/Yojimbo), the five Hitchcock's are excellent, as well. The transfer for Charade is amazing. The Lady Eve and The Last Temptation of Christ are great ones. If you're in the mood for weird, Man Bites Dog is a good disk, too. The Samurai Trilogy, Straw Dogs, and the Brazil set are amazing. You might recognize a lot of Japanese samurai films -- that's actually thanks to my wife. I'd seen a few, but she grew up with a mother who was obsessed with the Japanese culture, and watched a bunch of Japanese films...

Yours?

You listed a buch of my favorites. The Kurosawa films are all great. If you havent seen Stray Dog (came out a few months ago) yet, i highly reccomend it. I have been trying to see as many Kurosawa movies as i can and thankfully IFC shows the non criterion ones every now and then. Though i tend to like is modern setting films more than the Samurai ones.

Brazil is great. I love crazy ass movies like it.

The only Hitchcock releases i have seen are Notorious and Rebecca. Great movies and discs but really need to see the others.

I havent seen Man Bites Dog, Chrarade, Lady Eve or the Last Temptation. I will check those out.

My favorites that we havent mentioned yet are:

Solaris
Grand Illusion
Wild Strawberries (my favotite Bergman film i have seen so far)
The Testament of Dr. Mabuse (great classic Fritz Lang)
Rafiffi
Diabolique
Le Cercle Rouge

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 01:40 AM
You listed a buch of my favorites. The Kurosawa films are all great. If you havent seen Stray Dog (came out a few months ago) yet i highly reccomend it. I have been trying to see as many Kurosawa movies as i can and thankfully IFC shows the non criterion ones every now and then. Though i tend to like is modern setting films more than the Samurai ones.

Brazil is great. I love crazy ass movies like it.

The only Hitchcock releases i have seen are Notorious and Rebecca. Great movies and discs but really need to see the others.

I havent seen Man Bites Dog, Chrarade, Lady Eve or the Last Temptation.

Of the ones you didnt list my favorites are:

Solaris
Grand Illusion
Wild Strawberries (my favotite Bergman film i have seen so far)
The Testament of Dr. Mabuse (great classic Fritz Lang)
Rafiffi
Diabolique

Solaris, Diabolique and Dr. Mabuse are great. Not a big fan of Wild Strawberries... only seen it once, though, so I need to give it another shot. I give EVERY film 2 shots -- I've seen too many films that I didn't like the first time, just because I wasn't in the right mood, or the setting wasn't right, or whatever. So I give everything 2 shots now. Of Bergman's, I love The Seventh Seal. Haven't seen Grand Illusion or Rafiffi.

I would HIGHLY recommend Chrarade, The Lady Eve and The Last Temptation of Christ. Man Bites Dog is weird -- it's about a documentary film crew who follows a serial killer around as he finds potential victims. The longer they're with him, the more he justifies his actions and the line between right and wrong and observer and active participant begin to blur. Interesting film, but there are some pretty brutal scenes. But as a fan of A Clockwork Orange, I doubt you'd be offended or put off by it.

Miles
11-27-2004, 01:53 AM
Solaris, Diabolique and Dr. Mabuse are great. Not a big fan of Wild Strawberries... only seen it once, though, so I need to give it another shot. I give EVERY film 2 shots -- I've seen too many films that I didn't like the first time, just because I wasn't in the right mood, or the setting wasn't right, or whatever. So I give everything 2 shots now. Of Bergman's, I love The Seventh Seal. Haven't seen Grand Illusion or Rafiffi.

I would HIGHLY recommend Chrarade, The Lady Eve and The Last Temptation of Christ. Man Bites Dog is weird -- it's about a documentary film crew who follows a serial killer around as he finds potential victims. The longer they're with him, the more he justifies his actions and the line between right and wrong and observer and active participant begin to blur. Interesting film, but there are some pretty brutal scenes. But as a fan of A Clockwork Orange, I doubt you'd be offended or put off by it.

Grand Illusion is antother Jean Renoir film. Same guy that made The Rules of the Game. Raffifi is a great French Noir/heist movie. The 20 minute heist sceen with no dialog alone is worth it. Another great one that is similar to Raffifi is Le Circle Rouge. Great stuff.

With Wild Strawberries you definitly have to be in the right mood. Like most Bergman films its really depressing and philosophical but i really found it interesting. Actually you probably need to be in the right mood to handle any Bergman film. And yeah Seventh Seal is really great.

I will definitly check out the ones you recommended. Charade sounds particulary interesting. And yeah i doubt i will be put off by Man Bites Dog since i also like Cronenberg's films.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 02:01 AM
And yeah i doubt i will be put off by Man Bites Dog since i also like Cronenberg's films.

Definitely not if you're a Cronenberg fan... me, not so much. Nothing has ever really bugged me or offended me, just don't care for the style.

Charade and The Lady Eve are classics... and The Last Temptation of Christ is interesting if for nothing more than the controversy it spawned by people (Jerry Falwell leading the way) who'd never seen it. It's a look at a realistic Christ, one who was not infalliable and who did struggle to make the decisions he made. Then it goes into if he'd made different decisions... really interesting. Martin Scorscese is the man.

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:03 AM
American beauty.
Swingers
Clerks
Dollers trilogy
Along the waterfront

(demon top 5)

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 02:11 AM
American beauty.
Swingers
Clerks
Dollers trilogy
Along the waterfront

(demon top 5)

American Beauty's a great film... Waterfront, also great. Never seen Swingers, Dollers? don't know, and HATED, repeat, HATED Clerks... no offense. Not a big Kevin Smith fan... loved Dogma, Jay/Silent Bob was alright... the rest, HATE! And I've seen them all, so I do know where I'm coming from. I'm not gonna slam something without actually having seen it. Just can't stand Smith or his style/scripts (generally speaking, of course).

In no particular order, Fire Me Boy!'s Top 10 (favorite):
The Godfather
Citizen Kane
Apocalypse Now (NOT Redux, original theatrical version)
Vertigo
2001
8 1/2
Singin' in the Rain
Lawrence of Arabia
The Graduate
Dr. Strangelove (Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb)

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:12 AM
I was going to say citizen kane, but frankly i don't know if i like it as a movie, or if it is because people hype it up so much.

Dollars trilogy is a fistful of dollars good bad ugly etc.

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:13 AM
i have worked at cockblocker for many years. I know way to much about movies

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:14 AM
much love for david lean

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:16 AM
i wanted to be a critic, but i think I love the photography of a movie sway me to much.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 02:16 AM
I was going to say citizen kane, but frankly i don't know if i like it as a movie, or if it is because people hype it up so much.

Dollars trilogy is a fistful of dollars good bad ugly etc.

AH! OK, you misspelled it and I was mispronouncing it in my head... sorry, now I know what you're talking about.

Those old spaghetti westerns are fun. I love Citizen Kane... but I'm a film nerd. As a filmmaker, it's one of those films I've studied and studied. I would honestly say that if I had to choose 2 movies to watch for the rest of my life, and I'd not be able to watch any others, Citizen Kane and The Godfather would be the two...

Miles
11-27-2004, 02:18 AM
I was going to say citizen kane, but frankly i don't know if i like it as a movie, or if it is because people hype it up so much.

Dollars trilogy is a fistful of dollars good bad ugly etc.

Have you seen Once Upon a Time in the West yet? Same director as the dollars movies and just as badass. Its up there with the Good the Bad and the Ugly just no Eastwood. And i usually dont like westerns either.

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:19 AM
where are you from? fmb?

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:19 AM
sorry about the mispelling. I am trying to huff household cleaners to get a buzz tonight.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 02:21 AM
Have you seen Once Upon a Time in the West yet? Same director as the dollars movies and just as badass. Its up there with the Good the Bad and the Ugly just no Eastwood. And i usually dont like westerns either.

Yeah, Sergio Leone's one of the great, IMO. He also did Once Upon a Time in America, which is brilliant.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 02:22 AM
where are you from? fmb?

Basically KC. I live in Warrensburg. Grew up in Oklahoma and SW Missouri... college in W'burg, then as I was about to leave I met my wife (she wasn't my wife at the time).

Miles
11-27-2004, 02:25 AM
Yeah, Sergio Leone's one of the great, IMO. He also did Once Upon a Time in America, which is brilliant.

Yeah i love Leone's films. Once Upon a Time in America was pretty badass. Him and Ennio Morricone were a hell of a combo. I think Morricone has made some of the best film scores ever.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 02:39 AM
Yeah i love Leone's films. Once Upon a Time in America was pretty badass. Him and Ennio Morricone were a hell of a combo. I think Morricone has made some of the best film scores ever.

How old are you? I see you're a law student, but not sure. If you went from college to law school, you're about my age (I'm 26) and there aren't that many people in this age range that have the knowledge you do... impressive, most impressive. Everyone I know that can carry a conversation like we have here are guys I went to school with that studied film just like me.

You're a cool cat.

Miles
11-27-2004, 02:46 AM
How old are you? I see you're a law student, but not sure. If you went from college to law school, you're about my age (I'm 26) and there aren't that many people in this age range that have the knowledge you do... impressive, most impressive. Everyone I know that can carry a conversation like we have here are guys I went to school with that studied film just like me.

You're a cool cat.

Im 24 and havent taken any film classes but im really into movies. I occasionally run into movie fans our age but its not too often. At least many of my friends in law school have at least seen a few random ass foreign movies.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 02:50 AM
Im 24 and havent taken any film classes but im really into movies. I occasionally run into movie fans our age but its not too often. At least many of my friends in law school have at least seen a few random ass foreign movies.

My brother fancies himself a movie buff (and coincidentally went to law school for a while), but we'll get to talking about movies and he just decides I'm a freak. He won't watch foreign films (just like my parents). They say, "I don't go to the theater to read."

:banghead: :cuss:

Miles
11-27-2004, 02:54 AM
My brother fancies himself a movie buff (and coincidentally went to law school for a while), but we'll get to talking about movies and he just decides I'm a freak. He won't watch foreign films (just like my parents). They say, "I don't go to the theater to read."

:banghead: :cuss:

Yeah i hate that response against foreign movies. Once you get used to the subtitles, for me at least, its like im processing the reading of the dialog as they are saying it. I dont even notice that im reading subs at all.

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:58 AM
I took film classes. It's amazing how much you learn how editing goes into the films. If the cuts aren't to your liking you really get bored. I actually like long cuts though.

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 02:59 AM
when reading the subs, you can figure out ususally half of what they are saying with the body english

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 03:03 AM
I took film classes. It's amazing how much you learn how editing goes into the films. If the cuts aren't to your liking you really get bored. I actually like long cuts though.

I shot and edited a feature film for my production company... I'm a BIG fan of long shots -- at 2.5 hours, the film, White Shoe, Left, has a half-dozen 8-minute or longer shots.... love 'em. They're a pain in the ass to choreograph and shoot, but once you nail it it's there. Lots of fun. Editing is my forte. I love directing and cinematography, but a passion is editing. I think it's a power trip, really.

Brian DePalma is the long shot man... great stuff.

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 03:05 AM
have you ever seen the movie the player?

Miles
11-27-2004, 03:07 AM
have you ever seen the movie the player?

I have been meaning to see that for a while since i like Robert Altman but havent gotten around to it yet. Any good?

Fried Meat Ball!
11-27-2004, 03:10 AM
I have been meaning to see that for a while since i like Robert Altman but havent gotten around to it yet. Any good?

The Player is incredible... great movie. Definitely check it out.

Are you a sci-fi fan? There was an independent called Free Enterprise, really features Star Trek references, but it chalk full of sci-fi references. Great watch.

Demonpenz
11-27-2004, 03:12 AM
The player is an underated film i think. Plus it has an opening cut of like 18 minutes. It is a crazy shot.

Miles
11-27-2004, 03:17 AM
The Player is incredible... great movie. Definitely check it out.

Are you a sci-fi fan? There was an independent called Free Enterprise, really features Star Trek references, but it chalk full of sci-fi references. Great watch.

Yeah i definitly like sci-fi but i havnt seen it yet though I have heard of it. They had it on some movie channel quite a while back but i never got around to it.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-27-2004, 04:01 AM
movie theaters are the new gay bath houses/roadside restrooms

Jenson71
11-27-2004, 05:28 PM
This is by far my best thread ever.

Criterions are cool, but too expensive for me. I still have 4 though. And they're often a risky buy for me. For instance, I had $35 in Best Buy bonuses so I picked up Bergman's (who I'd consider myself a fan of) Scenes From a Marriage only to discover I didn't like it much at all.

Jenson71
11-27-2004, 05:39 PM
BTW, the greatest movie ever is City Lights.

the Talking Can
11-27-2004, 05:47 PM
BTW, the greatest movie ever is City Lights.

sometimes honesty is a bad choice....

ENDelt260
11-27-2004, 05:48 PM
If I ever have a son named Alexander, I wanna call him Xander instead of Alex. I just think that's cooler.

Miles
11-27-2004, 05:49 PM
This is by far my best thread ever.

Criterions are cool, but too expensive for me. I still have 4 though. And they're often a risky buy for me. For instance, I had $35 in Best Buy bonuses so I picked up Bergman's (who I'd consider myself a fan of) Scenes From a Marriage only to discover I didn't like it much at all.

I agree Buying criterions before you have seen them is way too risky. You could probably sell it on ebay for $25 or so and at least get something back.

Also you badly need a netfix account. They have all of the cirterion discs.

Count Zarth
11-27-2004, 05:57 PM
If I ever have a son named Alexander, I wanna call him Xander instead of Alex. I just think that's cooler.

Calling anyone Xander is really nerdy, so I approve.

ENDelt260
11-27-2004, 05:59 PM
Calling anyone Xander is really nerdy, so I approve.
Gah. There goes that idea.

Jenson71
11-27-2004, 06:10 PM
sometimes honesty is a bad choice....

Whatchu talkin bout? It's true, and it's the right choice. Yeah, City Lights with Casablanca close behind.

Ari Chi3fs
11-27-2004, 06:42 PM
I love Citizen Kane... but I'm a film nerd. As a filmmaker, it's one of those films I've studied and studied. I would honestly say that if I had to choose 2 movies to watch for the rest of my life, and I'd not be able to watch any others, Citizen Kane and The Godfather would be the two...

Yeah Citizen Kane is classic... however, if I had to pick two DVDs to watch for the rest of my life... one would be Beatles Anthology... the other would be Jenna Jameson and Felicia doing some fun stuff.

Sure-Oz
11-27-2004, 06:51 PM
I went and saw The Incredibles instead, i heard Alexander wasn't that good.

KcMizzou
11-27-2004, 07:50 PM
If I ever have a son named Alexander, I wanna call him Xander instead of Alex. I just think that's cooler.That's my sons name. He goes by Alex, but I call him Xander now and then. (Usually when I'm givin' him a hard time.)

Raiderhader
11-27-2004, 08:43 PM
Whatchu talkin bout? It's true, and it's the right choice. Yeah, City Lights with Casablanca close behind.


Good grief. All of these self proclaimed movie lovers and critics, and it takes nigh a 100 posts and a kid to mention Casablanca as one of the best of all time. :shake:

At least someone has some common sense around here (did I just say that about Jenson?).

Frazod
11-27-2004, 10:37 PM
Good grief. All of these self proclaimed movie lovers and critics, and it takes nigh a 100 posts and a kid to mention Casablanca as one of the best of all time. :shake:

At least someone has some common sense around here (did I just say that about Jenson?).

Screw "one of the best." It IS the best.

Jenson71
11-27-2004, 10:49 PM
Good grief. All of these self proclaimed movie lovers and critics, and it takes nigh a 100 posts and a kid to mention Casablanca as one of the best of all time. :shake:

At least someone has some common sense around here (did I just say that about Jenson?).

This post was great, but you should have added "here's looking at you, kid" somewhere.

Raiderhader
11-27-2004, 11:23 PM
Screw "one of the best." It IS the best.


I am certainly hard pressed to disagree with that. I was merely taking into account personal preferences other people may have. I can understand it being some where in the top 5 (more like top 3), but I have witnessed in this thread a top 5 and a top 10 list from self-proclaimed movie afficionados with out it being listed. Jenson at least had the common sense to put it at number 2.

Raiderhader
11-27-2004, 11:26 PM
This post was great, but you should have added "here's looking at you, kid" somewhere.


You're right, I should have. So I just added it to your rep.

Jenson71
11-27-2004, 11:32 PM
Well, when dealing in terms of techinical merits, Casablanca doesn't offer anything new, bold, or exciting. It's not a groundbreaking film the way a The Birth of a Nation, Citizen Kane, or a Battleship of Potemkin is. What it has is a whole lot of heart (very similar to City Lights), the coolest character in film history, and a touching love story easy to relate to and set against one of the most historically important events ever. AFI just annouced it will rank the 100 greatest film quotes ever this summer, and it's no surprise Casablanca leads the way.

Frazod
11-27-2004, 11:35 PM
I've seen Citizen Kane. While it's obviously a great film, I was a bit dissappointed. I was expecting it to be as good as Casablanca, and it simply wasn't. It's certainly better than Gone With the Wind, though.

Miles
11-27-2004, 11:43 PM
I've seen Citizen Kane. While it's obviously a great film, I was a bit dissappointed. I was expecting it to be as good as Casablanca, and it simply wasn't. It's certainly better than Gone With the Wind, though.

Yeah thats pretty much what i though of Citizen Kane too. Its a technical masterpiece but its not the most entertaining movie i have ever seen. Its near the top of the best movies i have seen but not necessarly among my top favorites.

Casablanca is definitly a brilliant movie but for some reason i didnt get as much out of it as everyone else did. It probably had a lot to do with unreasonble expectations from it since it is so highly praised. I definitly need to watch it again. I actually prefer Maltese Falcon over it as my favorite Bogart movie.

Frankie
11-28-2004, 12:03 AM
I saw it already when it was called "Braveheart."

And I saw "Braveheart" when it was called "Spartacus."

Frankie
11-28-2004, 12:11 AM
Yeah, it wasn't very good, although I guess it didn't feel like 3 hours. So that's a plus. The battle scenes aren't impressive and are capped off by the "in-action" moving camera that I hate so much. The acting and accents aren't convincing. It follows pretty much the same as any old historic sandles and robes film. Some political-land mumbo jumbo here, then a big fight there, and so on.

One shot reflects Gone With the Wind's famous overlook on the wounded and dead Civil War soldiers, and Angelina Jolie gives a line that seems to mock Vito Corleone.

One scene, featuring the elephant vs. horse shot, tries to do way to much style-wise. Scenery turns red, slow motion comes into affect. And the blood looks like ketchup and mustard.

All in all a careless, meaningless bloodfest. I can't wait for The Aviator.

Another ATG epic was all ready to be filmed starring Leonardo Di Caprio. I heard a few days ago that they have scrapped it due to having lost the race to be on the screen first. Maybe they should reconsider. I still kinda like the old Richard Burton version.

FloridaChief
11-28-2004, 12:13 AM
Screw "one of the best." It IS the best.

I have to disagree. I think Casablanca is a great movie; one of the best ever made. But in terms of pure cinematic enjoyment, two films leap to mind that are superior: Maltese Falcon and The Godfather, Part II...

Frazod
11-28-2004, 12:18 AM
I have to disagree. I think Casablanca is a great movie; one of the best ever made. But in terms of pure cinematic enjoyment, two films leap to mind that are superior: Maltese Falcoln and The Godfather, Part II...

Godfather Part II? It's not even as good as the original Godfather.

FWIW, I think Godfather is the best movie ever made, and one of a handful I would consider to be as near perfection as humanly possible. But to me, Casablanca just has an intangible quality about it that makes it the greatest movie - more than a sum of its parts.

Frankie
11-28-2004, 12:20 AM
Someone mentioned Val Kilmer -- in my opinion, he was the lone shining star. His scenes were great, save one. The one that wasn't outstanding was crap because of the script -- it was out of place....

Kilmer said he was pushing Stone to do this movie a decade ago so he could play Alexander.

He probably would have been a better choice for the role than CF.

FloridaChief
11-28-2004, 12:29 AM
Godfather Part II? It's not even as good as the original Godfather.

Actually, it's better... :)

Seriously, I vacillate between I & II on a weekly basis. But all in all, GFII has, I believe, a slightly richer texture than I, esp the flashback scenes. The only thing II lacks is Brando...

Frankie
11-28-2004, 12:32 AM
How old are you? I see you're a law student, but not sure. If you went from college to law school, you're about my age (I'm 26) and there aren't that many people in this age range that have the knowledge you do... impressive, most impressive. Everyone I know that can carry a conversation like we have here are guys I went to school with that studied film just like me.

You're a cool cat.

He stayed at the Holiday-Inn last night.

Frankie
11-28-2004, 12:35 AM
My brother fancies himself a movie buff (and coincidentally went to law school for a while), but we'll get to talking about movies and he just decides I'm a freak. He won't watch foreign films (just like my parents). They say, "I don't go to the theater to read."

Have you seen any of Majidi's works? Like "Children Of Heaven?"

Frankie
11-28-2004, 12:37 AM
This is by far my best thread ever.

Criterions are cool, but too expensive for me. I still have 4 though. And they're often a risky buy for me. For instance, I had $35 in Best Buy bonuses so I picked up Bergman's (who I'd consider myself a fan of) Scenes From a Marriage only to discover I didn't like it much at all.

Bergman is an aquired taste. I don't care for his stuff either.

FloridaChief
11-28-2004, 12:42 AM
BTW, if we're discussing best films of all time, The Bicycle Thief must be entered into the conversation. You foreign film-haters can disagree, but talk about a richly textured movie...

Frankie
11-28-2004, 12:43 AM
Screw "one of the best." It IS the best.
Hard to disagree with that. I can never pick one flick as my No.1 though. I say both "Casablanca" and "The Godfather" are definitely included in the list of my top movies.

Miles
11-28-2004, 12:44 AM
BTW, if we're discussing best films of all time, The Bicycle Thief must be entered into the conversation. You foreign film-haters can disagree, but talk about a richly textured movie...

That ones very high on my list of ones to see. It always seems to turn up as one of the must see foreign classics.

FloridaChief
11-28-2004, 12:51 AM
That ones very high on my list of ones to see. It always seems to turn up as one of the must see foreign classics.

I highly recommend it. You won't be disappointed...


http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.10.98/gifs/bicyclethief-9849.jpg

Jenson71
11-28-2004, 01:23 AM
The Godfather I/II are the closest thing to perfection ever put on film. And I'm sure most know, my all-time, neverchaning favorites without a doubt.

Okay, I've said City Lights is the greatest film ever, with Casablanca coming second. The Godfathers are perfect films and my favorites - the two movies I "couldn't live without ever seeing again".

The ending to City Lights is one of the most touching scenes ever acted. The ending to GFII is the greatest and most moving cinematic spectacle to me.

I hope that makes sense.

Jenson71
11-28-2004, 01:24 AM
Bergman is an aquired taste. I don't care for his stuff either.

I liked Wild Strawberries (even own the Criterion) and liked The Seventh Seal. But I say no to Scenes From a Marriage.

Jenson71
11-28-2004, 01:31 AM
Actually, it's better... :)

Seriously, I vacillate between I & II on a weekly basis. But all in all, GFII has, I believe, a slightly richer texture than I, esp the flashback scenes. The only thing II lacks is Brando...

I always say, if anything II is better. De Niro and Gazzo more than make up any lack of returning characters.

I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

Jenson71
11-28-2004, 01:32 AM
I once heard some sports writer on Around the Horn say The Godfather II was the worst sequel ever.

Miles
11-28-2004, 01:38 AM
I liked Wild Strawberries (even own the Criterion) and liked The Seventh Seal. But I say no to Scenes From a Marriage.

Did you ever get around to seeing Persona? Its not my favorite of his but its probably is most F#cked up film.

Just an observation but more than any director i can think of you have to be in the right mood when watching his movies. They are some of the most emotional movies i have seen and many of them are really depressing.

Jenson71
11-28-2004, 01:43 AM
I've seen Citizen Kane. While it's obviously a great film, I was a bit dissappointed. I was expecting it to be as good as Casablanca, and it simply wasn't. It's certainly better than Gone With the Wind, though.

First time I saw GWTW, I hated it. It was on TCM this Friday though, and I wanted to watch it. I never realized the first time how nice that score is. They're not playing it again til Feb. though, so that's a wait.

Miles, no I haven't seen Persona yet. Hollywood Video does have the tape though, so as soon as I pay my debt to them....

:banghead:

FloridaChief
11-28-2004, 02:01 AM
I always say, if anything II is better. De Niro and Gazzo more than make up any lack of returning characters.

I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

Something I recently noted is that I like the deleted scenes from II better than I as well. The scene where Michael's niece and her fiancee come to ask his permission to marry is a standout and reveals yet another facet of MC's character. Having watched it several times, the only reason I can imagine for cutting it had to be the overall length of the film. I think it's fantastic and should have survived the final cut.

ENDelt260
11-28-2004, 03:24 AM
I once heard some sports writer on Around the Horn say The Godfather II was the worst sequel ever.
He's clearly never seen Police Academy 4.

FloridaChief
11-29-2004, 08:09 PM
Nope, this thread's too good to be buried on a boring night...

Jenson71
11-29-2004, 08:38 PM
Something I recently noted is that I like the deleted scenes from II better than I as well. The scene where Michael's niece and her fiancee come to ask his permission to marry is a standout and reveals yet another facet of MC's character. Having watched it several times, the only reason I can imagine for cutting it had to be the overall length of the film. I think it's fantastic and should have survived the final cut.

It has been a while since I've seen the deleted scenes. Yes that scene is great. It's one of Michael's very few 'Godfather-like' times. Although it's rarely shown, Michael still has a little Vito in him. Great scene.

I haven't seen the deleted scenes in a while though. Christmas vacation is coming up...

Hey have you read Godfather Returns yet?

EDIT - My posts are extremely redundant. Sorry.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-29-2004, 10:02 PM
Good grief. All of these self proclaimed movie lovers and critics, and it takes nigh a 100 posts and a kid to mention Casablanca as one of the best of all time. :shake:

At least someone has some common sense around here (did I just say that about Jenson?).

Perhaps it wasn't listed in the top 5 or 10 is because it doesn't belong... while Casablanca is a terrific film (and probably within my top 20), it doesn't merit a top 10 spot. The acting is first rate, and as love stories go, it's unparalleled, but as a story alone, love story or not, it doesn't rank. And as you already stated, it's technically efficient, that's all. To each his own, I suppose.

Have you seen any of Majidi's works? Like "Children Of Heaven?"
Children of Heaven is a great film. I'm also a fan of The Father.
He stayed at the Holiday-Inn last night.
Who? Me? Sorry, no.

Kilmer said he was pushing Stone to do this movie a decade ago so he could play Alexander.

He probably would have been a better choice for the role than CF.
I knew this was a film Stone's been trying to get done for quite some time. And usually I'm quite a Colin Farrell fan -- have been since Ordinary Descent Criminal... he's a phenomenal actor, it's just that Stone sucks... didn't use to, but does not (IMHO).

...two films leap to mind that are superior: Maltese Falcon and The Godfather, Part II...
The Maltese Falcon is quite enjoyable, and probably my favorite Bogart film, as well. But The Godfather, Part II is simply not better than the original. It is truly an amazing film, yes, no argument whatsoever. And the young cast featured in the film's flashback moments are first rate. But the film's heart and soul belong to the original...

**All of these opinions are just that... opinions. To each his own, as I already said once.

And for what it's worth, from someone who's seen a lot of Bergman's films -- absolutely an acquired taste. And even if you like his brand of film, you STILL have to be in the right mood.

In any case, MOVIES ROCK! :thumb:

Frankie
11-30-2004, 06:36 PM
Children of Heaven is a great film. I'm also a fan of The Father.

I loved the irony at the end of COH. Thought it was very original. Also the race with no music background was pretty exciting. Music would have cheapened it. Two very nice touches to an excellent movie.

Where did you see "The Father?" I haven't seen it! Is it on DVD?

FloridaChief
11-30-2004, 06:45 PM
Hey have you read Godfather Returns yet?


No I haven't, but the few reviews I've read are praising the book, which is kinda a load off my mind--my biggest fear was this was gonna be some sort of explotative rip-off--and that doesn't appear to be the case, so far.

I'll probably grab a copy during the holidays.

Raiderhader
11-30-2004, 07:15 PM
Perhaps it wasn't listed in the top 5 or 10 is because it doesn't belong... while Casablanca is a terrific film (and probably within my top 20), it doesn't merit a top 10 spot. The acting is first rate, and as love stories go, it's unparalleled, but as a story alone, love story or not, it doesn't rank. And as you already stated, it's technically efficient, that's all. To each his own, I suppose.

Actually, I did not state that.

When a film does not have the staying power that Casablanca has, then you can make an argument (legitimate one that is) for it not deserving a top 5 rating. There is obviously something very special about the film, something intangible as Tim put it.

Frankie
11-30-2004, 07:28 PM
Hey have you read Godfather Returns yet?


Huh? What's THAT about? :shrug:

Jenson71
11-30-2004, 08:32 PM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400061016/qid=1101871860/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-7104957-0973712?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

THE MISSING YEARS FROM THE GREATEST CRIME SAGA OF ALL TIME

Thirty-five years ago, Mario Puzo’s great American tale, The Godfather, was published, and popular culture was indelibly changed. Now, in The Godfather Returns, acclaimed novelist Mark Winegardner continues the story–the years not covered in Puzo’s bestselling book or in Francis Ford Coppola’s classic films.

It is 1955. Michael Corleone has won a bloody victory in the war among New York’s crime families. Now he wants to consolidate his power, save his marriage, and take his family into legitimate businesses. To do so, he must confront his most dangerous adversary yet, Nick Geraci, a former boxer who worked his way through law school as a Corleone street enforcer, and who is every bit as deadly and cunning as Michael. Their personal cold war will run from 1955 to 1962, exerting immense influence on the lives of America’s most powerful criminals and their loved ones, including

Tom Hagen, the Corleone Family’s lawyer and consigliere, who embarks on a political career in Nevada while trying to protect his brother;

Francesca Corleone, daughter of Michael’s late brother Sonny, who is suddenly learning her family’s true history and faces a difficult choice;

Don Louie Russo, head of the Chicago mob, who plays dumb but has wily ambitions for muscling in on the Corleones’ territory;

Peter Clemenza, the stalwart Corleone underboss, who knows more Family secrets than almost anyone;

Ambassador M. Corbett Shea, a former Prohibition-era bootlegger and business ally of the Corleones’, who wants to get his son elected to the presidency–and needs some help from his old friends;

Johnny Fontane, the world’s greatest saloon singer, who ascends to new heights as a recording artist, cozying up to Washington’s power elite and maintaining a precarious relationship with notorious underworld figures;

Kay Adams Corleone, who finally discovers the truth about her husband, Michael–and must decide what it means for their marriage and their children and

Fredo Corleone, whose death has never been fully explained until now, and whose betrayal of the Family was part of a larger and more sinister chain of events.

Sweeping from New York and Washington to Las Vegas and Cuba, The Godfather Returns is the spellbinding story of America’s criminal underworld at mid-century and its intersection with the political, legal, and entertainment empires. Mark Winegardner brings an original voice and vision to Mario Puzo’s mythic characters while creating several equally unforgettable characters of his own. The Godfather Returns stands on its own as a triumph–in a tale about what we love, yearn for, and sometimes have reason to fear . . . family.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-30-2004, 09:59 PM
I loved the irony at the end of COH. Thought it was very original. Also the race with no music background was pretty exciting. Music would have cheapened it. Two very nice touches to an excellent movie.

Where did you see "The Father?" I haven't seen it! Is it on DVD?
I saw The Father a year or two ago on some film channel my parents had on their satellite. Was down for Christmas one year and it was on. Some kind of a supplemental showing with coverage from the Toronto Film Fest, I think. Can't really remember. To my knowledge it's not on DVD, yet. You might be able to find a bootleg on eBay, though.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-30-2004, 10:09 PM
Actually, I did not state that.

When a film does not have the staying power that Casablanca has, then you can make an argument (legitimate one that is) for it not deserving a top 5 rating. There is obviously something very special about the film, something intangible as Tim put it.

Sorry, it was Jenson71 that stated "Well, when dealing in terms of techinical merits, Casablanca doesn't offer anything new, bold, or exciting. It's not a groundbreaking film the way a The Birth of a Nation, Citizen Kane, or a Battleship of Potemkin is."

And like I said, Casablanca is efficient. Nothing flashy, brilliant, or even memorable about the technical aspects of the film... it's just there. It's not bad, but not outstanding. It's good, but not great.

As a love story, I would be hard pressed to find any that's better. But as a story it wouldn't be that hard to beat. But you are absolutely right, it has stood the test of time. And for that, I would put it in my top 20. Just not the top 10.

Anyway, just defending my stance, since I was one of the lists you saw from a self-proclaimed film buff that didn't list the film. Just so you know, it wasn't an oversight. It's there on my list, just further down that you'd like it.

On another note... just got back from a press-only screening "Closer." I'll give a better review when I'm more awake, but initial thoughts -- really f__ked up. AND, we don't get to see Natalie Portman's boobies like I was told we would... that was a disappointment. However, you do get several REALLY nice shots of her ass in a thong... and that ALMOST makes up for not getting to see her tits. But the film, seriously messed up. Like I said, I'll give a better look tomorrow sometime.

Fried Meat Ball!
11-30-2004, 10:11 PM
I saw The Father a year or two ago on some film channel my parents had on their satellite. Was down for Christmas one year and it was on. Some kind of a supplemental showing with coverage from the Toronto Film Fest, I think. Can't really remember. To my knowledge it's not on DVD, yet. You might be able to find a bootleg on eBay, though.

Just found it here, if you want.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=617&item=6345547912&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Frazod
11-30-2004, 10:19 PM
No I haven't, but the few reviews I've read are praising the book, which is kinda a load off my mind--my biggest fear was this was gonna be some sort of explotative rip-off--and that doesn't appear to be the case, so far.

I'll probably grab a copy during the holidays.

I'm about 60 pages into it. Very entertaining thus far.

It starts with Tessio getting whacked by Geraci, one of his own men. Geraci doing the killing himself is a test of his loyalty to the Corleones.

big nasty kcnut
12-01-2004, 12:01 AM
Ok here my take free enterprise and office space and silverado are some the best movie i have seen.

Frankie
12-01-2004, 07:25 AM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400061016/qid=1101871860/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-7104957-0973712?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

THE MISSING YEARS FROM THE GREATEST CRIME SAGA OF ALL TIME

Thirty-five years ago, Mario Puzo’s great American tale, The Godfather, was published, and popular culture was indelibly changed. Now, in The Godfather Returns, acclaimed novelist Mark Winegardner continues the story–the years not covered in Puzo’s bestselling book or in Francis Ford Coppola’s classic films.

It is 1955. Michael Corleone has won a bloody victory in the war among New York’s crime families. Now he wants to consolidate his power, save his marriage, and take his family into legitimate businesses. To do so, he must confront his most dangerous adversary yet, Nick Geraci, a former boxer who worked his way through law school as a Corleone street enforcer, and who is every bit as deadly and cunning as Michael. Their personal cold war will run from 1955 to 1962, exerting immense influence on the lives of America’s most powerful criminals and their loved ones, including

Tom Hagen, the Corleone Family’s lawyer and consigliere, who embarks on a political career in Nevada while trying to protect his brother;

Francesca Corleone, daughter of Michael’s late brother Sonny, who is suddenly learning her family’s true history and faces a difficult choice;

Don Louie Russo, head of the Chicago mob, who plays dumb but has wily ambitions for muscling in on the Corleones’ territory;

Peter Clemenza, the stalwart Corleone underboss, who knows more Family secrets than almost anyone;

Ambassador M. Corbett Shea, a former Prohibition-era bootlegger and business ally of the Corleones’, who wants to get his son elected to the presidency–and needs some help from his old friends;

Johnny Fontane, the world’s greatest saloon singer, who ascends to new heights as a recording artist, cozying up to Washington’s power elite and maintaining a precarious relationship with notorious underworld figures;

Kay Adams Corleone, who finally discovers the truth about her husband, Michael–and must decide what it means for their marriage and their children and

Fredo Corleone, whose death has never been fully explained until now, and whose betrayal of the Family was part of a larger and more sinister chain of events.

Sweeping from New York and Washington to Las Vegas and Cuba, The Godfather Returns is the spellbinding story of America’s criminal underworld at mid-century and its intersection with the political, legal, and entertainment empires. Mark Winegardner brings an original voice and vision to Mario Puzo’s mythic characters while creating several equally unforgettable characters of his own. The Godfather Returns stands on its own as a triumph–in a tale about what we love, yearn for, and sometimes have reason to fear . . . family.

That sounds interesting. Too bad the movie version cannot be made with the old cast. :( Plus I think Coppola has said HE won't make anymore GF films.

BTW, as disappointing as GF3 was I wish Coppola would have made a GF4 continuing with 'Vinnie' Mancini-Corleone (Andy Garcia) as the new boss. Vinnie's persona could have made for an interesting direction in the Corleone saga.

Fried Meat Ball!
12-01-2004, 08:04 AM
That sounds interesting. Too bad the movie version cannot be made with the old cast. :( Plus I think Coppola has said HE won't make anymore GF films.

BTW, as disappointing as GF3 was I wish Coppola would have made a GF4 continuing with 'Vinnie' Mancini-Corleone (Andy Garcia) as the new boss. Vinnie's persona could have made for an interesting direction in the Corleone saga.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think there will EVER be another Godfather film -- I believe Coppola owns the rights to the saga and he has said there won't be anymore, not without Puzo writing them. And with Puzo dead and all, that makes it a LOT more difficult.

:)

Raiderhader
12-01-2004, 10:57 AM
Sorry, it was Jenson71 that stated "Well, when dealing in terms of techinical merits, Casablanca doesn't offer anything new, bold, or exciting. It's not a groundbreaking film the way a The Birth of a Nation, Citizen Kane, or a Battleship of Potemkin is."

And like I said, Casablanca is efficient. Nothing flashy, brilliant, or even memorable about the technical aspects of the film... it's just there. It's not bad, but not outstanding. It's good, but not great.

As a love story, I would be hard pressed to find any that's better. But as a story it wouldn't be that hard to beat. But you are absolutely right, it has stood the test of time. And for that, I would put it in my top 20. Just not the top 10.

Anyway, just defending my stance, since I was one of the lists you saw from a self-proclaimed film buff that didn't list the film. Just so you know, it wasn't an oversight. It's there on my list, just further down that you'd like it.

On another note... just got back from a press-only screening "Closer." I'll give a better review when I'm more awake, but initial thoughts -- really f__ked up. AND, we don't get to see Natalie Portman's boobies like I was told we would... that was a disappointment. However, you do get several REALLY nice shots of her ass in a thong... and that ALMOST makes up for not getting to see her tits. But the film, seriously messed up. Like I said, I'll give a better look tomorrow sometime.


I understand that we all have different tastes and our opinions will vary. And it is my opinion that you are hampered due to being a movie critic when it comes to appreciating a great movie. :) You keep talking about the technical aspect of Casablanca, and how it brought nothing new to the table as far as films go. I guess I say, big deal. I look at all the technical advances film making has undergone since the time of Casablanca, and they are impressive to be sure, but even with all of that, how many of those films have even come close to accomplishing what Casablanca has over the decades? Not very many.

You don't have to be technicaly advanced in the art of film making to produce a good movie. All you need is a good story with solid characters and talented actors to bring both to life. Casablanca does that. You have a story that people can identify with in one aspect or another, and it is centered around interesting characters. And lastly it has the talented actors that pull of the performance sucking you even deeper into the story as they make it come alive.

That is all that is needed. And the fact that Casablanca has stood the test of time, and is considered the greatest movie ever by so many sans great technical aspects, makes all that much more impressive, IMNSHO. But of course, you are free to disagree, if you want to be wrong. :p

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 12:22 PM
BTW, as disappointing as GF3 was I wish Coppola would have made a GF4 continuing with 'Vinnie' Mancini-Corleone (Andy Garcia) as the new boss. Vinnie's persona could have made for an interesting direction in the Corleone saga.

Ugh... :Lin:

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 12:28 PM
I think Raiderhader has the definite edge in this arguement. The American Film Institute and it's "more than 1500 leaders of the American movie community" named it the 2nd greatest film ever made. (American)

Raiderhader
12-01-2004, 12:31 PM
I think Raiderhader has the definite edge in this arguement. The American Film Institute and it's "more than 1500 leaders of the American movie community" named it the 2nd greatest film ever made. (American)


Of course I have the edge. :) But even at that, I could never win the arguement beyond a shadow of a doubt. Because in the end, it all comes down to personal taste.

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 12:38 PM
Amen.

Frankie
12-01-2004, 12:39 PM
Ugh... :Lin:

Why?! :shrug:

Raiderhader
12-01-2004, 12:40 PM
And the fact that a few people simply choose to go through life being obstinate and refusing to admit to reality.


:D

ENDelt260
12-01-2004, 12:46 PM
And the fact that a few people simply choose to go through life being obstinate and refusing to admit to reality.


:D
Hey, it works for me.

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 12:46 PM
Why?! :shrug:

Because The Godfather Trilogy is about Michael Corleone, and his Family, in both meanings of the word.

In The Godfather, we see his entrance into the family, he tells his father "he's with him now" and we see him take over. In the second one, we see him expand the Family while destroying his own. And in the third one, he reconciles, gives up the family, and clearly dies. It's not about Vincent Mancini and that direction would be a horrible scar in the legacy of these films. Godfather III wasn't horrible, but it should have been better. I wouldn't trust Coppola to make another, and without Puzo and other crew members who have either died or haven't been working for years, mostly because of age - like Gordon Willis.

There's no need especially without Michael/Pacino

Raiderhader
12-01-2004, 12:49 PM
Hey, it works for me.


The great irony of my post is that I typically fit in that catagory. :)

Frankie
12-01-2004, 01:11 PM
Because The Godfather Trilogy is about Michael Corleone, and his Family, in both meanings of the word.

In The Godfather, we see his entrance into the family, he tells his father "he's with him now" and we see him take over. In the second one, we see him expand the Family while destroying his own. And in the third one, he reconciles, gives up the family, and clearly dies. It's not about Vincent Mancini and that direction would be a horrible scar in the legacy of these films.

Your point is very viable here. But this is one of those arguments where a couple of points can hold equally true. The story could be just as easily viewed as the Corleone family's story. Not just Michael's. From that point of view, the story could be continued into contemporary times. Say around 1990 when a volatile Vinnie Corleone has to deal with the decline of the old fashioned Mafia families. What would be wrong with that?

Godfather III wasn't horrible, but it should have been better. I wouldn't trust Coppola to make another, and without Puzo and other crew members who have either died or haven't been working for years, mostly because of age - like Gordon Willis.

There's no need especially without Michael/Pacino

For one thing, I really really missed Tom Hagen (Robert Duvall) in GF3. George Hamilton's character was a very pale and forgetable replacement. I think Duvall's inclusion would have greatly improved the story.

As for Coppola, I disagree with you. Coppola had a big hand in the writing for GF1&2. Collaborating with Puzzo on equal basis. If anyone could be in Puzzo's head it was Coppola. I think he could write a good one for a GF4. There are a few of today's actors I'd like to see in a GF picture. Not to mention the strangely awol Joe Pesci.

Fried Meat Ball!
12-01-2004, 01:15 PM
I understand that we all have different tastes and our opinions will vary. And it is my opinion that you are hampered due to being a movie critic when it comes to appreciating a great movie. :) You keep talking about the technical aspect of Casablanca, and how it brought nothing new to the table as far as films go. I guess I say, big deal. I look at all the technical advances film making has undergone since the time of Casablanca, and they are impressive to be sure, but even with all of that, how many of those films have even come close to accomplishing what Casablanca has over the decades? Not very many.

You don't have to be technicaly advanced in the art of film making to produce a good movie. All you need is a good story with solid characters and talented actors to bring both to life. Casablanca does that. You have a story that people can identify with in one aspect or another, and it is centered around interesting characters. And lastly it has the talented actors that pull of the performance sucking you even deeper into the story as they make it come alive.

That is all that is needed. And the fact that Casablanca has stood the test of time, and is considered the greatest movie ever by so many sans great technical aspects, makes all that much more impressive, IMNSHO. But of course, you are free to disagree, if you want to be wrong. :p

Nowhere in my post did I say Casablanca is not an outstanding film. Nowhere. I believe it is a great film, up there with the best of them. But without the technical aspects of Citizen Kane, 2001, or a dozen others, or even matching the story of The Godfather, Casablanca doesn't match up. It's just my opinion, but Casablanca is great... top 10, no. That's all.

As far as my being hampered due to the fact that I'm a critic (and filmmaker, too, by the way) -- when talking about the greatest films of all time, technical quality MUST come into the equation. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. That's part of filmmaking. And Casablanca is as solid as they come, but not above and beyond its competition.

Someone else said your argument was backed up by the fact that the AFI said it was #2 overall. Great. We're talking, as you said raiderhader, about personal opinion. All of this came about because someone asked me, as a critic, my Top 10. I gave it, then defended my not putting Casablanca on the list. There was a reason, as I've indicated in my defense -- it wasn't an oversight on my part. It was intentionally not there because I do not believe it belongs.

But you're right... it's all personal opinion. You're welcome to have yours, even though you're wrong (to steal a line from you).

:p

Frazod
12-01-2004, 01:19 PM
Because The Godfather Trilogy is about Michael Corleone, and his Family, in both meanings of the word.

In The Godfather, we see his entrance into the family, he tells his father "he's with him now" and we see him take over. In the second one, we see him expand the Family while destroying his own. And in the third one, he reconciles, gives up the family, and clearly dies. It's not about Vincent Mancini and that direction would be a horrible scar in the legacy of these films. Godfather III wasn't horrible, but it should have been better. I wouldn't trust Coppola to make another, and without Puzo and other crew members who have either died or haven't been working for years, mostly because of age - like Gordon Willis.

There's no need especially without Michael/Pacino

Godfather III was basically ruined by Coppola casting his wretched ugly-ass hack of a daughter in the role of Michael's daughter. She RUINED every scene she was in - one of the single worst performances in motion picture history, and probably THE WORST ever for such a key role in movie of that caliber. She sucks so bad that Ed Wood probably wouldn't have hired her. WHAT WAS COPPOLA THINKING? I'd say he easily cost himself a third set of Oscars by casting his kid in the part. He should have just bought the bitch a pony (or acting lessons, or perhaps a visit to a plastic surgeon to have that Karl Malden beak trimmed down).

I've heard or read somewhere that originally Winona Rider was supposed to get that part, but something happened. Had that been the case, I think people would remember III much more fondly (although it still wouldn't have been on par with the first two).

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 01:26 PM
Your point is very viable here. But this is one of those arguments where a couple of points can hold equally true. The story could be just as easily viewed as the Corleone family's story. Not just Michael's. From that point of view, the story could be continued into contemporary times. Say around 1990 when a volatile Vinnie Corleone has to deal with the decline of the old fashioned Mafia families. What would be wrong with that?

For one thing, I really really missed Tom Hagen (Robert Duvall) in GF3. George Hamilton's character was a very pale and forgetable replacement. I think Duvall's inclusion would have greatly improved the story.


1. It just wouldn't be the same or necessary without Michael. And both sequels have connections to the original, too. Basically, with that plot and timeline, alot of connections with the original are not there. I, personally, also did not find anything interesting in Vincent either.

2. It's extremely saddening when you think how there was no Tom Hagen purely because Paramount did not want to pay him as much as he was asking for. :shake:

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 01:29 PM
Godfather III was basically ruined by Coppola casting his wretched ugly-ass hack of a daughter in the role of Michael's daughter. She RUINED every scene she was in - one of the single worst performances in motion picture history, and probably THE WORST ever for such a key role in movie of that caliber. She sucks so bad that Ed Wood probably wouldn't have hired her. WHAT WAS COPPOLA THINKING? I'd say he easily cost himself a third set of Oscars by casting his kid in the part. He should have just bought the bitch a pony (or acting lessons, or perhaps a visit to a plastic surgeon to have that Karl Malden beak trimmed down).

I've heard or read somewhere that originally Winona Rider was supposed to get that part, but something happened. Had that been the case, I think people would remember III much more fondly (although it still wouldn't have been on par with the first two).

Yeah, she alone is a big part of the problem, but not the only one.

So pathetic when she and Michael and Anthony are walking around Sicily and Michael tells her shes not to see Vincent anymore. She semi-yells, in a "I don't really care" way "No, Dad!" and then runs off like she's 4 years old. I hated her on the rooftop scene too.

beavis
12-01-2004, 01:30 PM
Godfather III was basically ruined by Coppola casting his wretched ugly-ass hack of a daughter in the role of Michael's daughter. She RUINED every scene she was in - one of the single worst performances in motion picture history, and probably THE WORST ever for such a key role in movie of that caliber. She sucks so bad that Ed Wood probably wouldn't have hired her. WHAT WAS COPPOLA THINKING? I'd say he easily cost himself a third set of Oscars by casting his kid in the part. He should have just bought the bitch a pony (or acting lessons, or perhaps a visit to a plastic surgeon to have that Karl Malden beak trimmed down).
After having just watched part III a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't agree with you more! She couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. I've never seen a more monotone, emotionless performance, ever!

Fried Meat Ball!
12-01-2004, 01:32 PM
Godfather III was basically ruined by Coppola casting his wretched ugly-ass hack of a daughter in the role of Michael's daughter. She RUINED every scene she was in - one of the single worst performances in motion picture history, and probably THE WORST ever for such a key role in movie of that caliber. She sucks so bad that Ed Wood probably wouldn't have hired her. WHAT WAS COPPOLA THINKING? I'd say he easily cost himself a third set of Oscars by casting his kid in the part. He should have just bought the bitch a pony (or acting lessons, or perhaps a visit to a plastic surgeon to have that Karl Malden beak trimmed down).

I've heard or read somewhere that originally Winona Rider was supposed to get that part, but something happened. Had that been the case, I think people would remember III much more fondly (although it still wouldn't have been on par with the first two).

I think you're right -- I remember Rider was up for it. As for Sofia Coppola, she's a MUCH better director than she is an actor, but as for her beak -- I think she's grown into it. Then, VERY ugly, now, not so bad. Still not great, but not butt ugly.

On casting, there were others up for the original roles that would have changed the film considerably. Robert Redford was originally up for the role of Michael Corleone. That would have been disastrous. And I even like Redford, but he's no Michael.

Frankie
12-01-2004, 01:37 PM
Godfather III was basically ruined by Coppola casting his wretched ugly-ass hack of a daughter in the role of Michael's daughter. She RUINED every scene she was in - one of the single worst performances in motion picture history, and probably THE WORST ever for such a key role in movie of that caliber. She sucks so bad that Ed Wood probably wouldn't have hired her. WHAT WAS COPPOLA THINKING? I'd say he easily cost himself a third set of Oscars by casting his kid in the part. He should have just bought the bitch a pony (or acting lessons, or perhaps a visit to a plastic surgeon to have that Karl Malden beak trimmed down).

I've heard or read somewhere that originally Winona Rider was supposed to get that part, but something happened. Had that been the case, I think people would remember III much more fondly (although it still wouldn't have been on par with the first two).

Winona Rider WAS originally cast. But she came down with some illness just as shooting was starting. Coppola may have had no other choice at the time. Ironically his daughter could have been the daughter of Sonny and the Mancini woman from GF1's sex against the wall scene. She looked more like that woman than any combination of Pacino and Diane Keaton. And Garcia looked too much like a young Pacino to pass for the Sonny/Mancini offspring. Not a big thing but the irony distracted me.

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 01:40 PM
The story with Ryder is after shooting a movie, she wasn't feeling well and a doctor diagnosed her with exhaustion and she was told to rest. Coppola took a risk, and...it turned out to be a mistake.

I don't know much about Ryder to say she would have been good as Mary. But I do know that she couldn't have been as bad as Sofia.

Frazod
12-01-2004, 01:43 PM
We should start a new thread about otherwise good movies ruined by one bad acting performance.

Off the top of my head, these come to mind:

Marielle Hemmingway in Creator
Robin Curtis in Star Trek III
The one-two punch of Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best (the voice of Jar Jar) in Phantom Menace

Frankie
12-01-2004, 01:43 PM
It's extremely saddening when you think how there was no Tom Hagen purely because Paramount did not want to pay him as much as he was asking for. :shake:

Don't you agree that Duvall's Tom Hagen would have commanded a much stronger coucilieri (sp) and therefore a much stronger character? I really do think Paramount's cheapness cost them a lot of money and oscar glory.

Miles
12-01-2004, 01:44 PM
The story with Ryder is after shooting a movie, she wasn't feeling well and a doctor diagnosed her with exhaustion and she was told to rest. Coppola took a risk, and...it turned out to be a mistake.

I don't know much about Ryder to say she would have been good as Mary. But I do know that she couldn't have been as bad as Sofia.

They could have hired an actress that stars in a bunch of late night soft porn and gotten a better performance.

Frankie
12-01-2004, 01:51 PM
We should start a new thread about otherwise good movies ruined by one bad acting performance.
Starting, evidently, with the topic of this very thread. Farrel is sooo wrong for this role. Someone mentioned earlier that he was a CF fan. Not me. Though I concede he was very good in Tigerland.

Jenson71
12-01-2004, 01:52 PM
Don't you agree that Duvall's Tom Hagen would have commanded a much stronger coucilieri (sp) and therefore a much stronger character? I really do think Paramount's cheapness cost them a lot of money and oscar glory.

Definitely. They actually had a script with Tom in it. Then he's gone, now a rewrite is needed, and the new small, forgettable character is quickly written in. One of the "other" reasons Godfather III is not as good as it should have been.

Tom, another connecting point. But unlike GFII, new and exciting characters aren't brought into the equation. John Savage is given a high billing and then has probably less than 2 minutes of screen time as Hagen's son who's a priest. And we don't really care about him. Same as Bridget Fonda.

beavis
12-01-2004, 01:53 PM
The story with Ryder is after shooting a movie, she wasn't feeling well and a doctor diagnosed her with exhaustion and she was told to rest. Coppola took a risk, and...it turned out to be a mistake.

I don't know much about Ryder to say she would have been good as Mary. But I do know that she couldn't have been as bad as Sofia.
I read somewhere (it may have been here) that she faked the illness to get out of her contract to do a movie with Johnny Depp, or something along those lines.

Jenson71
12-10-2004, 08:45 PM
Here's my review I posted on the movie board I'm always wasting time at...

Closer *
(2004/Nichols)

The lows and even lowers of the relationships among 4 different people in London

Closer is heavy, drugged up Bergmanesque soap opera. I know you never hear that word used as a negative, but it reminded me of a tasteless update of Bergman's Scenes From a Marriage, a film I can't call myself a real fan of anyway.

Here are four characters who meet eachother and then instantly fall in love with eachother. A week later, they might be screwing somebody else. If it's sunny, it might be there current mate. If it's rainy, well, it might be the other. They declare their love for eachother but when their partner comes back in the room, they actually lied and now the truth is they don't love their partner.

These lives are supposed to be passed off as interesting and emotional. Yet the only emotion I felt in the theater was my own awkwardness as I watched the frustrating, pathetic lives of these four people.

On again, off again, "we're in love", "we hate each other" stories can work when it's a sitcom on NBC or a Woody Allen type romantic comedy. But this film takes itself too seriously, and in the end, it was just one big joke.

Miles
12-10-2004, 08:56 PM
Hey Jenson, whats the name of the movie BBS you are refering to? I usually get most of my info at DVDTalk but dont post there.

Jenson71
12-10-2004, 09:03 PM
Hey Jenson, whats the name of the movie BBS you are refering to? I usually get most of my info at DVDTalk but dont post there.
http://moviefan.proboards20.com/index.cgi

I find it great cause the people that post there most are my age...

Jenson71
12-10-2004, 09:04 PM
The problem is it's not a top quality board, like chiefsplanet. So that's the reason for the low amount of activity...

Deberg_1990
12-10-2004, 09:06 PM
http://moviefan.proboards20.com/index.cgi

I find it great cause the people that post there most are my age...

Hey Jensen, are you going to go see Oceans 12 this weekend? IM gonna go check it out with the wife on Sunday. Most of the reviews I have read have been mixed on it. Ive seen raves and ive seen pans. Most people seem pretty torn over it.

Jenson71
12-10-2004, 09:09 PM
I'll probably see it Christmas break if at all. My plan was to see that after Closer tonight, but didn't really feel like it. Now I have no money though. Ebert gave it ***

badgirl
12-11-2004, 05:11 PM
I talked to a man who was in Viet nam and he said Platoon was the most accurate movie he has saw. Platoon really bothered me when I watched it, especially where that guy beat that retarded boy in the head with the butt of his rifle while the mother watched. I feel sorry for our vets for many reasons, but thats another thread altogether.