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tk13
11-28-2004, 01:07 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/10285718.htm

Peterson's KC scouts all must go

JASON WHITLOCK


You might have spent considerable time the last couple of weeks wondering how the Chiefs should dig themselves out of their latest mess. You may even have asked yourself just who should be allowed to grab a shovel this off-season.

Should head coach Dick Vermeil return for a fifth season?

Should president/general manager/CEO Carl Peterson be given a 17th season to implement his five-year plan?

And what about the roster? How do you get rid of all the defensive dead weight?

Those are all good questions. The Chiefs are 3-7 — four games behind today's opponent, the San Diego Chargers, and the Denver Broncos — and beyond giving Larry Johnson a few meaningless carries, there's nothing left to accomplish this season. We might as well look ahead to the off-season.

In my mind, it's foolish to waste time worrying about Vermeil's future. He could retire today and it wouldn't surprise me. He could coach another five years and it wouldn't surprise me. And for those of you fantasizing about Peterson getting canned or stepping aside, take a look at season-ticket sales and Arrowhead Stadium's parking-lot receipts. Peterson's going nowhere.

So that leaves the roster. And I say before you start trying to figure out 2005 NFL free agents and draft prospects, let's take a long, hard look at the men in charge of scouting talent for the Chiefs. That's what separates the Kansas City Chiefs from the New England Patriots and the Pittsburgh Steelers. It's not money. It's not commitment. Lamar Hunt spends enough money to compete for a championship. Peterson wants to win a championship as much as the next general manager.

The Chiefs are a stinking embarrassment this season — and have missed the playoffs six of the last seven seasons — because their player personnel department has failed.

You want to talk 2005 changes? You want to talk roster shake-up? You want to know where to direct your outrage? You want to know who has had a worse season than Jerome Woods, Kawika Mitchell, Dexter McCleon and Ryan Sims put together?

Lynn Stiles, Kansas City's vice president of football operations/player personnel.

I like Stiles. He's a wonderfully nice and polite man. He's always gone out of his way to be respectful toward me, even during the times when Peterson went out of his way to be disrespectful toward me.

But Lynn Stiles should be fired. He oversees the Chiefs' scouting of college and NFL players. Stiles is the man who in 1995 took me into a film room and tried to convince me that Trezelle Jenkins was worthy of a first-round pick. It happened. I was there. He played film of Jenkins flopping around at the University of Michigan and told me that Art Shell would coach all of the bad technique out of Jenkins.

Stiles is also the man who came on my radio show last spring to talk about the NFL draft, and he had no idea that Ben Roethlisberger played Division I football. Roethlisberger's Miami of Ohio squad finished the season ranked in the final Associated Press top 10. Stiles didn't know that. Roethlisberger played in the same Mid-American Conference that produced Randy Moss, Byron Leftwich and Chad Pennington.

Stiles has his current position because he's lifelong friends with Vermeil and Peterson. Some people call it the good-old-boy network. Others call it the Chiefs' front office. Unless Peterson believes you've betrayed his trust (Tim Connolly), it's virtually impossible to lose a Kansas City front-office job. It doesn't matter that Peterson's hand-picked scouting department has botched nearly every draft except the 1996 draft (Jerome Woods, Reggie Tongue, John Browning, Donnie Edwards and Joe Horn).

Chuck Cook has been KC's director of college scouting for eight years. Here's a word-for-word excerpt from his bio in the Chiefs' media guide: “Thanks to the efforts of Cook and his scouting staff, the Chiefs have selected an impressive resume of college performers during his tenure, including recent first-round draft picks such as RB Larry Johnson (2003) and DT Ryan Sims (2002).”

I guess Chuck was too modest to take credit for Mike Cloud and Rashaan Shehee. When your scouting claim to fame is L.J. and Sims, you need to have your resume in heavy circulation at Sprint headquarters.

All of Peterson's scouting underlings should be looking for jobs.

Bill Kuharich, Jeffrey Foster, Jim Criner, Bruce Lemmerman, Don Gregory, John Bonaventura, Cornell Gowdy, Matt Littlefield and Greg Olejack, if you'd like to stay in the area, I have connections with upper management at Gates.

I'm sure there are a few men on that list who are actually pretty good at their jobs. That's irrelevant now. It's time to clear the air. Last off-season, Vermeil had to cut ties with his dear friend Greg Robinson. This off-season, Peterson needs to break up his cigar club.

ZootedGranny
11-28-2004, 01:10 AM
Couldn't agree more.

Peterson should still be thrown into a viper's nest though.

Count Zarth
11-28-2004, 01:40 AM
Whitlock nails it again.

Yosef_Malkovitch
11-28-2004, 01:49 AM
He's absolutely right.

Redcoats58
11-28-2004, 02:00 AM
I hate to say it but I agree with the fat bastard.

elvomito
11-28-2004, 02:13 AM
amen brotha

tk13
11-28-2004, 02:14 AM
Bingo was his name-o!



Sorry, just trying to fit in...

Coach
11-28-2004, 02:37 AM
God Damn, Fat-ass is on fire!

go bowe
11-28-2004, 02:40 AM
abso-fuggin-lutely!!

Coach
11-28-2004, 03:02 AM
But Lynn Stiles should be fired. He oversees the Chiefs' scouting of college and NFL players. Stiles is the man who in 1995 took me into a film room and tried to convince me that Trezelle Jenkins was worthy of a first-round pick. It happened. I was there. He played film of Jenkins flopping around at the University of Michigan and told me that Art Shell would coach all of the bad technique out of Jenkins.

Stiles is also the man who came on my radio show last spring to talk about the NFL draft, and he had no idea that Ben Roethlisberger played Division I football. Roethlisberger's Miami of Ohio squad finished the season ranked in the final Associated Press top 10. Stiles didn't know that. Roethlisberger played in the same Mid-American Conference that produced Randy Moss, Byron Leftwich and Chad Pennington.


Anyone find this interesting? Seesh, doesn't even know that Roethlisberger played D-I football, and Stiles is the man that took Trezelle Jenkins? Unbelieveable. :shake:

DaWolf
11-28-2004, 03:21 AM
Bill Kuharich was the Saints GM who traded the entire draft for Ricky Williams.

Why any former employee of the Saints front office is working for us in a chief talent evaluation post is a mystery...

Coach
11-28-2004, 03:33 AM
Bill Kuharich was the Saints GM who traded the entire draft for Ricky Williams.

Why any former employee of the Saints front office is working for us in a chief talent evaluation post is a mystery...

Holy shit.... you're serious?

tk13
11-28-2004, 03:44 AM
Holy shit.... you're serious?
Yeah he was, got fired after that season too I believe. Technically I believe Mike Ditka was the orchestrator of that trade, but obviously Kuharich went along with it. I was just reading about it, I hadn't realized that when the Redskins traded down in the first round that year they got Champ Bailey, then with that extra pick the next year took Lavar Arrington to go along with Chris Samuels in the first round.... man he got swindled.

DaWolf
11-28-2004, 03:48 AM
Holy shit.... you're serious?
Yep. That was his last draft with the Saints. He's an old Peterson buddy from the Philly days...

Chiefs Promote Bill Kuharich to Vice President of Pro Personnel
May 28, 2003, 4:32:00 PM
MAY 28 (afternoon)--Chiefs President Carl Peterson announced on Wednesday that Bill Kuharich has been promoted to Vice President of Pro Personnel effective immediately. Kuharich came to Kansas City as Director of Pro Personnel in 2000 and has served the past three seasons in that capacity. He joined the Chiefs after a 14-year stint with the Saints, serving as President, General Manager and Chief Operating Officer of the New Orleans franchise from ‘97-99.

“Certainly no one is more deserving of this promotion than Bill Kuharich,” Peterson stated. “Bill has been tremendously influential in our player personnel acquisitions the past three years. Bill’s outstanding background and experience certainly qualifies him to run an NFL franchise with great success and it is my hope that he will once again be afforded that opportunity.”

Entering his 21st season in professional football, Kuharich inaugurated his football career with the USFL’s Stars in ’83 under Peterson and the next year was promoted to Assistant General Manager/Director of Player Personnel. During the USFL’s three-year existence, the Stars compiled a league-best 48-13-1 combined regular season and playoff record, reaching all three USFL Championship Games and winning the final two league titles.

In ’86, Kuharich began his 14-year tenure with the Saints as the club’s Director of Player Personnel, serving in that role until ’93. He was promoted to Vice President of Football Operations, working in that role in ‘94-95 before being named Executive Vice President/General Manager in ’96. Kuharich was then elevated to the post of President/General Manager/Chief Operating Officer of the Saints in ’97, a position he held through the ’99 season.

Kuharich was hired in New Orleans by the late Jim Finks, who was enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in ’95. When Finks and Kuharich arrived in New Orleans in ’86, they inherited a franchise which had never enjoyed a winning season and had never been to the postseason in its 19 previous seasons of existence. By ’87, Finks had constructed a team which went 12-3 and made the franchise’s first playoff berth. With Kuharich’s continued assistance in the personnel area, the Saints would total four postseason appearances from ‘87-92.

A member of a football family, Kuharich also learned about the game at home. His father, the late Joe Kuharich, served as a college head coach at San Francisco (‘48-51) and Notre Dame (‘59-62). The elder Kuharich also served as an NFL head coach with the Chicago Cardinals (’52) and Washington Redskins (‘54-58) in addition to a stint as the head coach/general manager of the Philadelphia Eagles (‘64-68). During the ’55 season with the Redskins, Kuharich was named NFL Coach of the Year. The elder Kuharich also worked with Peterson in Philadelphia when Peterson served as the Eagles Director of Player Personnel and Kuharich worked as a scout for the club which was guided by head coach Dick Vermeil in the late ‘70s.

A graduate of Middlebury College in Vermont with a degree in History, the younger Kuharich began his football career as a graduate assistant coach at Brown in ’76. He then coached the offensive backfield for Hawaii in ’77. The following year, he went to work for the United States Department of Defense, while still serving as a volunteer assistant coach at Georgetown. In ’79, he returned to coaching at St. Lawrence and earned a master’s degree in Education. He spent the ’80 and ’81 seasons as an assistant at Columbia University before embarking on his professional career with Peterson in the USFL.

DaWolf
11-28-2004, 03:55 AM
Yeah he was, got fired after that season too I believe. Technically I believe Mike Ditka was the orchestrator of that trade, but obviously Kuharich went along with it. I was just reading about it, I hadn't realized that when the Redskins traded down in the first round that year they got Champ Bailey, then took Lavar Arrington and Chris Samuels in the first round the next year.... man he got swindled.
Yeah when you are President, General Manager and Chief Operating Officer of a franchise and your coach tells you that he wants to trade his entire draft for a running back, you better tell him to find another job instead of going along with it. Certainly a major factor in his demise. I wouldn't say the Aints during his tenure were ever really anything special, they were a sometimes solid club which never apprached championship caliber (which is really the type of guys who should be in our front office, the guys who have helped build championship winners in the NFL, not old USFL buddies who coincidentally also worked with another "good old boy" friend of Carl's, Jim Mora)...

Coach
11-28-2004, 03:57 AM
Good lord... and he's working for the Chiefs Front Office as we speak??

FloridaChief
11-28-2004, 04:05 AM
Yeah he was, got fired after that season too I believe. Technically I believe Mike Ditka was the orchestrator of that trade, but obviously Kuharich went along with it. I was just reading about it, I hadn't realized that when the Redskins traded down in the first round that year they got Champ Bailey, then with that extra pick the next year took Lavar Arrington to go along with Chris Samuels in the first round.... man he got swindled.

Didn't somebody post a warning about Kuharich when he was 1st hired on? I seem to remember bing told we'd rue the day...

Coach
11-28-2004, 04:14 AM
Well if Kuharich is going to be involved in the 2005 NFL Draft for the Chiefs, we're f*cked.

old_geezer
11-28-2004, 06:05 AM
Well if Kuharich is going to be involved in the 2005 NFL Draft for the Chiefs, we're f*cked.


Chances are good we could trade our entire draft to Miami for the rights to Rickie Williams................Deja vu all over again. :banghead:

milkman
11-28-2004, 06:28 AM
Well if Kuharich is going to be involved in the 2005 NFL Draft for the Chiefs, we're f*cked.

It doesn't matter.
We've been ****ed since the day that Carl was hired.

the Talking Can
11-28-2004, 07:12 AM
this article is a few years late

Ari Chi3fs
11-28-2004, 07:58 AM
this thread depresses me. Im gonna slit my wrists with a Witherspoon.

bricks
11-28-2004, 08:19 AM
Do any of you think Lamar can grow some balls and fire these guys? does he even care? I can see us being a laughing stock in years to come.

milkman
11-28-2004, 08:25 AM
Do any of you think Lamar can grow some balls and fire these guys? does he even care? I can see us being a laughing stock in years to come.

I don't think so.
He's far too old to grow any balls now.

DaWolf
11-28-2004, 08:49 AM
Do any of you think Lamar can grow some balls and fire these guys? does he even care? I can see us being a laughing stock in years to come.
I think Carl will have to resign on his own. I'm not old enough to profess to be an expert on it, but I know that Jack Steadman and Jim Schaaf became President and GM respectively in 1976, and didn't get replaced until '89. And their reign was not quite as successful as Carl's has been. So Lamar is not one who is quick to get rid of people, he's too loyal...

BigMeatballDave
11-28-2004, 08:52 AM
I have connections with upper management at Gates. ROFL

wazu
11-28-2004, 09:00 AM
HALLELUJAH! Can I get an A-men?!

RedNeckRaider
11-28-2004, 09:10 AM
I think Carl will have to resign on his own. I'm not old enough to profess to be an expert on it, but I know that Jack Steadman and Jim Schaaf became President and GM respectively in 1976, and didn't get replaced until '89. And their reign was not quite as successful as Carl's has been. So Lamar is not one who is quick to get rid of people, he's too loyal...
"Not quite" that is very kind!

Marty Mac Ver 2.0
11-28-2004, 09:14 AM
Jim Mora will be our next head coach if Carl Peterson is still in charge.

wazu
11-28-2004, 09:18 AM
Jim Mora will be our next head coach if Carl Peterson is still in charge.

We could do worse. At least the press conferences would become more interesting.

dirk digler
11-28-2004, 09:20 AM
Whitlock has been on fire lately. I totally agree with this article. Great job Whitlock.

Deberg_1990
11-28-2004, 09:26 AM
Wow, once again Fatlock is dead-on this week! All of these guys are complete tools and need to be shown the door! Id love to see all of them go of course , but its probably a pipe dream to think it will ever happen. Peterson has some hard decisions to make this off-season regarding his old school chums. I hope that Lamar puts some serious heat on Carl to make some changes or else.

jAZ
11-28-2004, 09:54 AM
Here are a few reasons why this will NEVER happen.
Couldn't agree more.
Whitlock nails it again.
He's absolutely right.
I hate to say it but I agree with the fat bastard.
amen brotha
Bingo was his name-o!
God Damn, Fat-ass is on fire!
abso-fuggin-lutely!!
HALLELUJAH! Can I get an A-men?!
Whitlock has been on fire lately. I totally agree with this article. Great job Whitlock.
Wow, once again Fatlock is dead-on this week!
Which is more unlikely... this many people agreeing with Fatlock, or the Chiefs listening to Fatlock, the fans and reason by firing these guys?

Mr. Laz
11-28-2004, 09:56 AM
Whitlock nails it again.

yep... if we can wade through his attention needy bullchit, there are usually accurate points in his articles.


Many just dont wanna hear it.

Michael Michigan
11-28-2004, 10:00 AM
Whitlock:

I like Stiles. He's always gone out of his way to be respectful toward me...

Reason enough to can him...

Straight, No Chaser
11-28-2004, 10:02 AM
Do any of you think Lamar can grow some balls and fire these guys?

Do you happen know Lamar's age?

FYI: Puberty is when the physical transformation of testes in males begin to develop.



---->

Michael Michigan
11-28-2004, 10:31 AM
Do you happen know Lamar's age?



116

htismaqe
11-28-2004, 12:00 PM
Jim Mora will be our next head coach if Carl Peterson is still in charge.

That's a bannable offense mister.

:cuss:

Chief Henry
11-28-2004, 04:50 PM
abso-fuggin-lutely!!

ditto....

ChiefsCountry
11-28-2004, 05:28 PM
Whitlock must be reading the Planet cause we say this all the freaking time. I'm glad the media catches on so slowly.

Also about Jim Mora, think about this. Instead of this :deevee: we get :cuss: . ROFL

Lzen
11-28-2004, 06:22 PM
Wow, sometimes Whit lock is way out there and just plain full of crap. But this time, he hit the bullseye. I agree with this article. Nice job, Jason. :thumb:

Cochise
11-28-2004, 06:30 PM
I would be somewhat optimistic because Carl helped build a championship calliber defense once before. But learning all this doesn't make things any easier.

Rausch
11-28-2004, 06:44 PM
Jim Mora will be our next head coach if Carl Peterson is still in charge.

That happens and I'll be on the fire Peterson bandwagon...

Deberg_1990
11-28-2004, 06:47 PM
That happens and I'll be on the fire Peterson bandwagon...


I wouldnt be surpised. They are friends from back in the USFL days.

mississippichiefan
11-28-2004, 06:51 PM
Bill Kuharich was the Saints GM who traded the entire draft for Ricky Williams.

Why any former employee of the Saints front office is working for us in a chief talent evaluation post is a mystery...

I didn't realize this until two weeks ago when I went to the Saints game and their radion station was saying no wonder the Chiefs haven't done good in the draft since we had this guy . They were really talking bad about him .

BigRedChief
11-29-2004, 07:06 AM
I hate to say it but I agree with the fat bastard.

He was right on about Pinkel.

Changing the name at Mizzou's arena.

and now this...WTF am I going to do. I think like Whilock. :banghead:

Doomed I tell ya. Doomed! Fatlock

jspchief
11-29-2004, 07:14 AM
Excellent strategy by Sh*tlock. If you bitch about a team for enough years in a row, you'll eventually get lucky and have a team that actually sucks.A broken clock is right twice a day

Tuckdaddy
11-29-2004, 07:25 AM
Hard to argue with that article.

Mr. Kotter
11-29-2004, 09:30 AM
Excellent strategy by Sh*tlock. If you bitch about a team for enough years in a row, you'll eventually get lucky and have a team that actually sucks.A broken clock is right twice a day

You know, jsp....I don't care for Whitlock either, generally.

However, how can you disagree with what he says in this article? :hmmm:

Seriously? :(

jspchief
11-29-2004, 09:41 AM
You know, jsp....I don't care for Whitlock either, generally.

However, how can you disagree with what he says in this article? :hmmm:

Seriously? :(

Where did I say I disagree with what he said? I think he's dead on.

I'm just not ready to start a parade for him finally getting something right. He's been crying wolf over the Chiefs for years. The fact that a wolf finally wandered in doesn't make him a genius.

Mr. Kotter
11-29-2004, 09:57 AM
Where did I say I disagree with what he said? I think he's dead on.

I'm just not ready to start a parade for him finally getting something right. He's been crying wolf over the Chiefs for years. The fact that a wolf finally wandered in doesn't make him a genius.

Sorry....guess I misread your comments, dude. :thumb:

You've just seemed quick to pounce on anyone who is critical of the Chiefs, or anyone who suggests they should have done things differently.

Of course, I guess I just haven't read anything to idicate otherwise from you...I probably just missed it.
:shrug:

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 10:03 AM
Somebody needs to be held accountable for our crappy drafts. Our drafts are average at best and most of them are real stinkers. Some heads should roll, but they won't because the money is the bottomeline and that's still flowing like wine.

BigRedChief
11-29-2004, 10:03 AM
Sorry....guess I misread your comments, dude. :thumb:

You've just seemed quick to pounce on anyone who is critical of the Chiefs, or anyone who suggests they should have done things differently.

Of course, I guess I just haven't read anything to idicate otherwise from you...I probably just missed it.
:shrug:

You learn that sarcasm at the game yesterday? :p

Mr. Kotter
11-29-2004, 10:05 AM
You learn that sarcasm at the game yesterday? :p

Damn, I didn't think it was that transparent.
ROFL

jspchief
11-29-2004, 10:24 AM
Sorry....guess I misread your comments, dude. :thumb:

You've just seemed quick to pounce on anyone who is critical of the Chiefs, or anyone who suggests they should have done things differently.

Of course, I guess I just haven't read anything to idicate otherwise from you...I probably just missed it.
:shrug:
You must miss more of my posts than you read. I'm constantly critical of this team. I hate Peterson. I hate Vermeil. I hate Al Saunders. And I think Gunther is over-rated because he had the luxury of great players. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

As far as pouncing on people that are critical, you have a grudge from a few weeks back when I jumped your ass for spamming the front page with "protest Arrowhead" posts. You don't understand that I'm not in disagreement with what you were saying, I just didn't like your approach. Either way, it was weeks ago and you probably just need to let it go.

In regards to this thread, I think it's absurd to be applauding Whitlock. It's the equivalent of applauding Carl Peterson for drafting Tony Gonzalez. He finally got an easy one right, but that doesn't excuse that way he's crapped himself on 90% of his drafts. Whitlock comes out every year proclaiming "this sucks" and "that sucks" and he's dead wrong 99% of the time. He finally said something that people on the Planet have been saying for years. I'm unimpressed.

Mr. Kotter
11-29-2004, 10:30 AM
You must miss more of my posts than you read. I'm constantly critical of this team. I hate Peterson. I hate Vermeil. I hate Al Saunders. And I think Gunther is over-rated because he had the luxury of great players. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

As far as pouncing on people that are critical, you have a grudge from a few weeks back when I jumped your ass for spamming the front page with "protest Arrowhead" posts. You don't understand that I'm not in disagreement with what you were saying, I just didn't like your approach. Either way, it was weeks ago and you probably just need to let it go.

In regards to this thread, I think it's absurd to be applauding Whitlock. It's the equivalent of applauding Carl Peterson for drafting Tony Gonzalez. He finally got an easy one right, but that doesn't excuse that way he's crapped himself on 90% of his drafts. Whitlock comes out every year proclaiming "this sucks" and "that sucks" and he's dead wrong 99% of the time. He finally said something that people on the Planet have been saying for years. I'm unimpressed.

Guess I need to read more of your stuff then.

FWIW, I like sarcasm and humor; that's my way to deal. Different people deal with disappointment differently. To each his own, I say. As far as "spamming" goes---I posted one thread; there were others, but I though my idea had some merit.....then I posted a spoof thread. I'd hardly call that "spamming."

Whatever works, I guess. As I said earlier, I'm no Whitlock fan; but I recognize his "role" as resident sh*t-stirrer, and when he does nail it.

No harm, no foul. No worries. Just curious.

Tribal Warfare
11-29-2004, 03:28 PM
Whitlock got it right with this article


I still say Carl should be fired