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Phobia
11-28-2004, 03:10 PM
4 games in a row with a sack on 4th down to end the game?

Tune in now.

Deberg_1990
11-28-2004, 03:17 PM
4 games in a row with a sack on 4th down to end the game?

Tune in now.

Uh..NO! Best O-Line in the league my ass!!

Mr. Laz
11-28-2004, 03:17 PM
no sack this time

Coach
11-28-2004, 03:18 PM
No sack. 2 dropped passes.

Phobia
11-28-2004, 03:18 PM
This sucks. I was really pulling for the Chargers defensive line.

FringeNC
11-28-2004, 03:27 PM
Another pathetic performance from our WRs....Those POS have no chance of getting open when we use our max protection packages. They simply aren't playmakers. Cut their asses, and let's see what the young guys can do.

Deberg_1990
11-28-2004, 03:29 PM
IM starting to question whether or Not Green can get the job done as well. The game was tied and he threw a horrible INT again. How many times has he done that this year???? Hes serviceable, but hes not the type of QB that can win the game single handily for you.

morphius
11-28-2004, 03:29 PM
But this does help push your Fire Kenison thread, 4th down, booom drop.

2bikemike
11-28-2004, 03:29 PM
Its a wonder he wasn't sacked we had just about every other element that we have previously experienced.

So I guess its Tony's turn to fumble in the red zone everybody else has.

2bikemike
11-28-2004, 03:31 PM
IM starting to question whether or Not Green can get the job done as well. The game was tied and he threw a horrible INT again. How many times has he done that this year???? Hes serviceable, but hes not the type of QB that can win the game single handily for you.

Thats becuase he is forcing the ball. It would be nice if the receivers would get some seperation. He throws into tight coverage a lot more than I would like.

Redcoats58
11-28-2004, 03:32 PM
IM starting to question whether or Not Green can get the job done as well. The game was tied and he threw a horrible INT again. How many times has he done that this year???? Hes serviceable, but hes not the type of QB that can win the game single handily for you.
I disagree. He has done it before. Why would that change now?

XXXshogunXXX
11-28-2004, 03:32 PM
no

Deberg_1990
11-28-2004, 03:33 PM
Thats becuase he is forcing the ball. It would be nice if the receivers would get some seperation. He throws into tight coverage a lot more than I would like.

Somewhat true, but sometimes he forces when he doesnt have to. In the Monday Night game last week, he should have thrown the ball away instead of forcing the ball into Gonzo and we could have taken the 3 points. We would have been in better position to win the game at the end. His decison making is horrible at times.

FringeNC
11-28-2004, 03:34 PM
IM starting to question whether or Not Green can get the job done as well. The game was tied and he threw a horrible INT again. How many times has he done that this year???? Hes serviceable, but hes not the type of QB that can win the game single handily for you.

Nah, he's fine. He just said WTF, I might as well force it on 3rd down. If we don't convert, we'll punt and lose anyway. I think we sent one WR out on that play. WTF? Our WRs take so long to get open, and our pass protection is average at best. We have to get some playmakers at WR.

Deberg_1990
11-28-2004, 03:35 PM
Nah, he's fine. He just said WTF, I might as well force it on 3rd down. If we don't convert, we'll punt and lose anyway. I think we sent one WR out on that play. WTF? Our WRs take so long to get open, and our pass protection is average at best. We have to get some playmakers at WR.

You might be right?? I honestly dont know???? Im so confused about this team right now. We do need some playmakers at WR though. No doubt about it.

2bikemike
11-28-2004, 03:36 PM
Somewhat true, but sometimes he forces when he doesnt have to. In the Monday Night game last week, he should have thrown the ball away instead of forcing the ball into Gonzo and we could have taken the 3 points. We would have been in better position to win the game at the end. His decison making is horrible at times.

Thats what I mean he forces it when he doesn't have too. He is trying too hard to make something happen. Lately bad shit has been happening.

Mr. Laz
11-28-2004, 03:50 PM
Thats becuase he is forcing the ball. It would be nice if the receivers would get some seperation. He throws into tight coverage a lot more than I would like.

he forces the ball when he doesnt have to


if there are more than 2 guys by the receiver he's throwing to then someone else is man/man, if not wide open.


example- Green throws into quad coverage to johnny morton when we had 2 guys underneath wide open.



Green had a bad game today

the Talking Can
11-28-2004, 03:54 PM
maybe he just can't score 35 points every week....without Priest....damn him....

I'd say on our list of problems Trent is at the bottom...

ck_IN
11-28-2004, 05:01 PM
Does anyone need any further proof that Holmes MAKES this team and Green is riding the gravy train?

With Holmes out and the game very winnable the team needs Green to step up and make a play. Instead he throws into tripple coverage in a spot where Morton had ZERO chance of catching it.

I'll give Green his due, he's a much better QB than I initially gave him credit for but he's by no means a top tier QB. And without Holmes he may not be a 2nd tier QB.

mikey23545
11-28-2004, 05:07 PM
As much bitching as everyone does about the D, I can't believe no one has noticed how many times this year Green could have won a game with a last minute drive...

We could be 7-4 with this defense....

the Talking Can
11-28-2004, 05:08 PM
anyone think the outcome might be different if the defense didn't give up 31 points a game?

ck_IN
11-28-2004, 05:11 PM
SD has a pretty potent offense I don't think shutting them out is reasonable. And lets face it our secondary is awful and our LB's are almost as bad. I think holding them to 31 isn't a bad day.

What is a bad day is Green and the offense not stepping up. Gonzo was open at will in the first half. LJ was gashing them for yards. What happened in the 2nd half? SD made adjustments and our whizkid coaching staff was baffled.

mikey23545
11-28-2004, 05:12 PM
anyone think the outcome might be different if the defense didn't give up 31 points a game?

Of course it would, just like it would if Trent or the rest of the _ffense had a clutch bone in their bodies...

Skip Towne
11-28-2004, 05:14 PM
This was the 5th time this year we lost a 4th quarter lead and lost.

Baby Lee
11-28-2004, 05:15 PM
maybe he just can't score 35 points every week....without Priest....damn him....

I'd say on our list of problems Trent is at the bottom...
And you'd be wrong. A player that flat out sucks, the decision is easy. Drop his ass. A player that shows your brilliance and dumbassery on consecutive plays, you're stuck in neutral. Can we reform him? Is he beyond help? Let him keep playing and we'll see.

Deberg_1990
11-28-2004, 05:16 PM
SD has a pretty potent offense I don't think shutting them out is reasonable. And lets face it our secondary is awful and our LB's are almost as bad. I think holding them to 31 isn't a bad day.

What is a bad day is Green and the offense not stepping up. Gonzo was open at will in the first half. LJ was gashing them for yards. What happened in the 2nd half? SD made adjustments and our whizkid coaching staff was baffled.


Agreed.....Trent is a problem, no doubt, but its one of many MANY problems on this team. Everywhere you look the team is bad. Horrible defense. Special Teams are bad. Offense can be good but then goes into funks where they cant pick up a simple 1st down at critical times. Untimely Penaties, bad coaching at gametime....just a bad all around team. Despite all of this, we have not been blown out and have been in every game we have lost until the end except for the Denver game. Weird??

Whats sad is, Vermeil and Crew have known how bad the defense was and lack of playmakers at WR's for 4 years now. Guess what, we still have the same problems 4 years later.

Baby Lee
11-28-2004, 05:17 PM
As much bitching as everyone does about the D, I can't believe no one has noticed how many times this year Green could have won a game with a last minute drive...

We could be 7-4 with this defense....
It has been noticed and lamented, many times over.

go bowe
11-28-2004, 05:21 PM
You might be right?? I honestly dont know???? Im so confused about this team right now. We do need some playmakers at WR though. No doubt about it.ok, so our wide outs aren't exactly star material...

but this offense still scored 31 points...

that should be enough to win games...

what we really need, BEFORE any upgrades at wr, are defensive players who can actually play... :deevee::deevee::deevee:

memyselfI
11-28-2004, 05:34 PM
As much bitching as everyone does about the D, I can't believe no one has noticed how many times this year Green could have won a game with a last minute drive...

We could be 7-4 with this defense....

uh, I've noticed it and pointed it out the previous two weeks...

but, I also noticed that the OL has broken down allowing Green to be sacked 3 times prior to this last meltdown. The guy can't do it alone and he is clearly not the only PB player on the offense who is not living up to last years standards. Again, the focus has been the defense (old habits die hard, as does denial) but the offense has stunk up the joint as well.

But, we must also remember that those great numbers and stats last season were put up against many bad teams. Thus, we are seeing the Chiefs were not nearly as good as their great record indicated last year and they are not as bad as their terrible record indicates this year.

They are in between. That would be 8-8. But they'd better get pretty damn hot and soon if they aspire to reach even that mediocre standard.

WilliamTheIrish
11-28-2004, 05:57 PM
uh, I've noticed it and pointed it out the previous two weeks...

but, I also noticed that the OL has broken down allowing Green to be sacked 3 times prior to this last meltdown. The guy can't do it alone and he is clearly not the only PB player on the offense who is not living up to last years standards. Again, the focus has been the defense (old habits die hard, as does denial) but the offense has stunk up the joint as well.

But, we must also remember that those great numbers and stats last season were put up against many bad teams. Thus, we are seeing the Chiefs were not nearly as good as their great record indicated last year and they are not as bad as their terrible record indicates this year.

They are in between. That would be 8-8. But they'd better get pretty damn hot and soon if they aspire to reach even that mediocre standard.

Baloney. This was no meltdown by the offense. You score 31 at home, or on the road, you should win. This is still a winning offense no matter how horrible the WR's are.

It's still the 3rd rated O in the league. Playing a 13-3 division winner's schedule.

Upgrade the D and this team would have rolled.


CP stood pat. End of story.(season.

the Talking Can
11-28-2004, 06:06 PM
And you'd be wrong. A player that flat out sucks, the decision is easy. Drop his ass. A player that shows your brilliance and dumbassery on consecutive plays, you're stuck in neutral. Can we reform him? Is he beyond help? Let him keep playing and we'll see.

uh, Eric Hicks sucks, Woods sucks, Bartee sucks, Sims sucks, Mitchell sucks.....Green doesn't....people seem to assume that a defense giving up 31 points a game is "overcomeable" (my new word)...but it isn't

Yes, we've learned Green is neither perfect nor Montana..but lots of QBs make more mistakes than Green and still win because the rest of thier team picks up the slack...Green has no cushion, if he doesn't direct the offense to 35 points, without Priest, then he's thrown under the bus by super-morons like yourself.

We had the best offense in the league last year and it got us nothing...anyone who thought we'd just score more points this year and be ok wasn't paying attention...if we aren't fixing the defense then we aren't fixing the real problem.

I used to think no one could it more wrong than CP....then I read your post. Congratulations.

Baby Lee
11-28-2004, 06:07 PM
Baloney. This was no meltdown by the offense. You score 31 at home, or on the road, you should win. This is still a winning offense no matter how horrible the WR's are.
You throw an INT in the 4th with the game close and you are a loser.

Baby Lee
11-28-2004, 06:12 PM
uh, Eric Hicks sucks, Woods sucks, Bartee sucks, Sims sucks, Mitchell sucks.....Green doesn't....people seem to assume that a defense giving up 31 points a game is "overcomeable" (my new word)...but it isn't

Yes, we've learned Green is neither perfect nor Montana..but lots of QBs make more mistakes than Green and still win because the rest of thier team picks up the slack...Green has no cushion, if he doesn't direct the offense to 35 points, without Priest, then he's thrown under the bus by super-morons like yourself.

We had the best offense in the league last year and it got us nothing...anyone who thought we'd just score more points this year and be ok wasn't paying attention...if we aren't fixing the defense then we aren't fixing the real problem.

I used to think no one could it more wrong than CP....then I read your post. Congratulations.
GO. . . FVCK. . . YOURSELF, . . . seriously.

I didn't say Green sucks. My position is that he is a loser. He is a more accomplished version of Grbac, if you need it in a vernacular you can understand. Has the skills, but farts them away. Yes the D sucks, but that is a given at this point. So you rely on the capable. Green is capable of A work, but does not deliver.

As I've said repeatedly, it's like the show "Life Goes On." One kid is a hard working, bright student and the other is retarded. The retarded kid, your happy if you don't have to wash the shit out of his bed sheets. That doesn't excuse the bright kid for bringing home straight Cs.

On the issue of 31 points being 'overcomeable.' To say that the D gave up 31 is simplistic. And it's irrelevant when the details reveal that in this game the D had the game tied and the ball in TrINT's hands, whereupon he threw an INT. After holding the OPP to 8 yards and a FG, they gave the ball back to TrINT, who sh!t away 4 downs to give the OPP the ball and the win.

stevieray
11-28-2004, 06:19 PM
Dogging Trent Green is BS.

tk13
11-28-2004, 06:30 PM
GO. . . FVCK. . . YOURSELF, . . . seriously.

I didn't say Green sucks. My position is that he is a loser. He is a more accomplished version of Grbac, if you need it in a vernacular you can understand. Has the skills, but farts them away. Yes the D sucks, but that is a given at this point. So you rely on the capable. Green is capable of A work, but does not deliver.

As I've said repeatedly, it's like the show "Life Goes On." One kid is a hard working, bright student and the other is retarded. The retarded kid, your happy if you don't have to wash the shit out of his bed sheets. That doesn't excuse the bright kid for bringing home straight Cs.

On the issue of 31 points being 'overcomeable.' To say that the D gave up 31 is simplistic. And it's irrelevant when the details reveal that in this game the D had the game tied and the ball in TrINT's hands, whereupon he threw an INT. After holding the OPP to 8 yards and a FG, they gave the ball back to TrINT, who sh!t away 4 downs to give the OPP the ball and the win.
Trent Green for his career has played on teams with a combined defensive PPG average somewhere in the neighborhood of 26 I believe... that doesn't absolve him from mistakes he's made this year, but to simply label him a career "loser" is quite frankly, absurd. Last year's Chiefs defense was the best defense Trent Green has ever played with. THE best, he's ever played with.... if that doesn't tell you what he's been up against his entire career I don't know what does. Last year he was money in saving the day, this year he hasn't been, you just simply aren't going to win them all when you're forced to put everything on one guy every week. That's what we're doing here, we're asking Trent Green to win the games every single week, that's the only hope.... no QB in that situation is going to have a 100% success rate.

WilliamTheIrish
11-28-2004, 06:37 PM
GO. . . FVCK. . . YOURSELF, . . . seriously.

I didn't say Green sucks. My position is that he is a loser. He is a more accomplished version of Grbac, if you need it in a vernacular you can understand. Has the skills, but farts them away. Yes the D sucks, but that is a given at this point. So you rely on the capable. Green is capable of A work, but does not deliver.

As I've said repeatedly, it's like the show "Life Goes On." One kid is a hard working, bright student and the other is retarded. The retarded kid, your happy if you don't have to wash the shit out of his bed sheets. That doesn't excuse the bright kid for bringing home straight Cs.

On the issue of 31 points being 'overcomeable.' To say that the D gave up 31 is simplistic. And it's irrelevant when the details reveal that in this game the D had the game tied and the ball in TrINT's hands, whereupon he threw an INT. After holding the OPP to 8 yards and a FG, they gave the ball back to TrINT, who sh!t away 4 downs to give the OPP the ball and the win.

2nd and 22. After the D had been handed a lead by the ST's.

2nd and 22. 65 yard Brees to some nobody who was 3 yards ahead of Warfield with no SS in sight.

This D is not a winning D in any way BL. The O (minus Priest, and with WR's that make me cringe to new lows on a weekly basis) is still a winning O.

Had we made an attempt to fix the D, the season would be brighter.

CP stood pat.

Baby Lee
11-28-2004, 07:54 PM
2nd and 22. After the D had been handed a lead by the ST's.

2nd and 22. 65 yard Brees to some nobody who was 3 yards ahead of Warfield with no SS in sight.

This D is not a winning D in any way BL. The O (minus Priest, and with WR's that make me cringe to new lows on a weekly basis) is still a winning O.

Had we made an attempt to fix the D, the season would be brighter.

CP stood pat.
Where have I EVER even HINTED that this D was a winning D? Do you have a different conception of "retard who shits his own bed" than I do? Because that's my current characterization of the D.

You're talking about "had we fixed the D." Well, we didn't. And there's no way to fix that. The only choice is to overcome it. The O is capable of overcoming it. And they've been granted a tie or the lead in the 4th quarter in EVERY GAME. And they've had many consecutive games where they could score and win the game. And they have failed.

At this point, I am placing more responsibility on the capable who fail, than the incapable who fail.

Rausch
11-28-2004, 08:01 PM
Thats what I mean he forces it when he doesn't have too. He is trying too hard to make something happen. Lately bad shit has been happening.

When he played like $#it before it was because he was forcing throws thinking he had to make a play.

Our defense (really, our secondary) is playing like $#it as well.

I'm amazed that we could contain Tomlinson, score 31 pts, have Dante return one for a TD, and still manage to $#it down our leg...

WilliamTheIrish
11-28-2004, 08:05 PM
Where have I EVER even HINTED that this D was a winning D? Do you have a different conception of "retard who shits his own bed" than I do? Because that's my current characterization of the D.

You're talking about "had we fixed the D." Well, we didn't. And there's no way to fix that. The only choice is to overcome it. The O is capable of overcoming it. And they've been granted a tie or the lead in the 4th quarter in EVERY GAME. And they've had many consecutive games where they could score and win the game. And they have failed.

At this point, I am placing more responsibility on the capable who fail, than the incapable who fail.


F*ck it.

I'm not Sysiphus. This rock is heavy, and I don't feel like pushing it uphill any more.

We'll have to disagree.

Straight, No Chaser
11-28-2004, 10:08 PM
...
With Holmes out and the game very winnable the team needs Green to step up and make a play. Instead he throws into tripple coverage in a spot where Morton had ZERO chance of catching it.

I'll give Green his due, he's a much better QB than I initially gave him credit for but he's by no means a top tier QB. And without Holmes he may not be a 2nd tier QB.

I'd like to go as far as top 10, but :cuss: if Green throwing badly, into coverage, for a game ending INT has become so :cuss: predictable.

Funny how after the Patriots game he complained publicly about the way the game was officiated as well as calling out players mid-week. This is starting to get ugly.


---->

memyselfI
11-29-2004, 08:06 AM
Baloney. This was no meltdown by the offense. You score 31 at home, or on the road, you should win. This is still a winning offense no matter how horrible the WR's are.

It's still the 3rd rated O in the league. Playing a 13-3 division winner's schedule.

Upgrade the D and this team would have rolled.


CP stood pat. End of story.(season.

Look, all facets of their game, not to mention coaching, have stunk at one point throughout the season. To continue to blame the D is the epitome of a drunken stupor or deep denial.

Raiderhader
11-29-2004, 08:49 AM
Look, all facets of their game, not to mention coaching, have stunk at one point throughout the season. To continue to blame the D is the epitome of a drunken stupor or deep denial.


Ms. Denial accussing others of being in denial. Can you say "irony"?

jspchief
11-29-2004, 09:17 AM
As I've said repeatedly, it's like the show "Life Goes On." One kid is a hard working, bright student and the other is retarded. The retarded kid, your happy if you don't have to wash the shit out of his bed sheets. That doesn't excuse the bright kid for bringing home straight Cs.

Our "A student" is missing a big part of his brain right now (Holmes). And you're bitching about "C's" when he's bringing home B+'s most games. It's one thing to expect good grades, but you're expecting him to bring home the nobel prize for inventing bed-sheets that make retard-shit disappear.

Trent Green is in the top ten in nearly every QB stat there is. He has a lot of INTs, but he also has more attempts than all but two QBs in the league. There's no doubt that the timing of his picks have been dreadful, but it's not his fault that he's put in those come behind situations.

You don't lose 4th qtr leads by not scoring , you lose them by letting other teams score. If our D did anything at all, we'd be running the ball and burning clock after scoring 30+ points.

He's not a great QB, or a HOFer. He's just a guy that gets it right more than he gets it wrong, and does it better than 90% of the QBs in the league. He's also better than any QB KC has had since Dawson.

ptlyon
11-29-2004, 09:35 AM
I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread, especially when I scrolled up and remembered how it all started.

A quarterback that plays for KC will never get any credit, Period.