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View Full Version : What did everyone think of the Harts/Pile safety tandem?


ILChief
11-29-2004, 08:32 AM
I saw both make some good plays and bad plays. I did see Harts lay some wood on someone. All in all, while not great it was no worse than Woods/Wesley and a whole lot cheaper.

P.S. Did anyone see the hit McCleon laid on one of the Chargers' Receivers? Where has that been all year?

bobbything
11-29-2004, 08:36 AM
What did everyone think of the Harts/Pile safety tandem?
I think Carl Peterson should be inserted at strong safety. I'd renew season tix to see that.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-29-2004, 08:43 AM
I saw both make some good plays and bad plays. I did see Harts lay some wood on someone. All in all, while not great it was no worse than Woods/Wesley and a whole lot cheaper.

P.S. Did anyone see the hit McCleon laid on one of the Chargers' Receivers? Where has that been all year?
Was that big hit by McCleon? I was at the game and couldn't tell and didn't hear who it was.

Toto
11-29-2004, 08:50 AM
Yes it was Dexter laying the wood to Gates...watch Monday Night Countdown on ESPN tonight...and you should see it as Gates gets "Jacked-up".

Dusto
11-29-2004, 08:50 AM
The big hit was from McCleon!

jspchief
11-29-2004, 08:51 AM
They were just as bad as Woods/Wesley, except they actually hit people. I would definately say I didn't see any drop-off. Keep these guys in, maybe by the end of the year they'll improve. If we gave Woods 10 weeks to get better, we can certainly give Harts 5.

Cochise
11-29-2004, 08:53 AM
Greg Wesley is a fine safety. Anyone who doesn't think there is a dropoff from Wesley to Pile is on crack.

the Talking Can
11-29-2004, 08:54 AM
Harts is better than Wods.

Pile looked pretty bad.

They still gave up a career passing day and 31 points.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-29-2004, 09:00 AM
Yes it was Dexter laying the wood to Gates...watch Monday Night Countdown on ESPN tonight...and you should see it as Gates gets "Jacked-up".
Cool...way to go Dex... (surprised look on my face)

My wife and I were yelling "he got JACKED-UP!" after that hit.

:thumb:

Cochise
11-29-2004, 09:01 AM
Woods I think is a good safety, even if he's not playing very well this year. But you can't indict Wesley for what the rest of the D has done. He's got 3 interceptions, 2 forced fumbles, and is second on the team in tackles. And all the time, you'll see Wesley coming all the way across the field to make a tackle on a play where 2 or 3 other people missed the tackle. He's the only person on this defense that I think could start on most teams in the league.

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 09:01 AM
Makes me long for Deron Cherry or Johnny RObinson. Damn.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-29-2004, 09:02 AM
Woods I think is a good safety, even if he's not playing very well this year. But you can't indict Wesley for what the rest of the D has done. He's got 3 interceptions, 2 forced fumbles, and is second on the team in tackles. And all the time, you'll see Wesley coming all the way across the field to make a tackle on a play where 2 or 3 other people missed the tackle. He's the only person on this defense that I think could start on most teams in the league.
I'd have to agree with that.

jcroft
11-29-2004, 09:21 AM
Wesley/Harts next year. This is one of the positions one defense we actually <em>don't</em> need an upgrade at.

Chief Henry
11-29-2004, 09:26 AM
Did anyone see the hit McCleon laid on one of the Chargers' Receivers? Where has that been all year?


I saw the hit and was happy that someone finally stepped up and
BASHED an opponents player. It was still too little too late :harumph:

cdcox
11-29-2004, 09:35 AM
Harts did "fine" in comparison to Woos.
Pile is a decent back-up.
We still need some playmakers somewhere on defense, and none of our current safties really fit that description. We also need an enforcer in the secondary and I haven't seen evidence of that either.

Chiefnj
11-29-2004, 09:37 AM
Harts and Pile are backup material.

jspchief
11-29-2004, 09:54 AM
Harts and Pile are backup material. Then they'll fit in nicely with the rest of our starters....

ChiefsFanatik88
11-29-2004, 10:42 AM
Better performance than Both Woods and Wesley have done all week.

Tuckdaddy
11-29-2004, 10:44 AM
They might as well stay on the field. Harts may have some promise.

Gaz
11-29-2004, 10:49 AM
Harts did okay. Pile was not quite as good.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wishes he could say the same about the MLB & CB positions.

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 10:52 AM
Harts did okay. Pile was not quite as good.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wishes he could say the same about the MLB & CB positions.


Watching our LB's get pushed around is almost too much to bear. I was getting really tired of watching Fuji get tossed around like a rag doll yesterday. Either this guy isn't the answer at SLB or he needs more around him to get his talent sufficiently displayed.

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 10:55 AM
Harts has played better than Woods IMO. At least he will hit hard, where Woods pusses out with contact. Woods is a seasoned vet and he still misses assignments, that's pathetic and shows that Woods' head isn't in the game. Woods is just going through the motions.

Pile struggled but still seemed willing to hit. He didn't look that great, but considering he hasn't played much, I think he has potential.

the Talking Can
11-29-2004, 10:56 AM
Watch the Patriots LBs and then watch ours....it is not possible that both are considered professional

ours are dumb, weak, and lazy....when a Patriots LB hits you, you go down...period

Gaz
11-29-2004, 10:56 AM
From the couch at Rancho Gaz, I cannot tell if Fujita has regressed in Guntherís scheme or whether Mitchell/Caver is dragging him down.

I had high hopes for Mitchell, but he seems to be consistently out of position. Is that affecting Fujita?

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees LB as the core weakness in the D [commence CB howling now].

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 10:57 AM
Watching our LB's get pushed around is almost too much to bear. I was getting really tired of watching Fuji get tossed around like a rag doll yesterday. Either this guy isn't the answer at SLB or he needs more around him to get his talent sufficiently displayed.
Fujita is so over-rated. We need to replace him because he is average at best. He's a FA after this season and nothing better than a back-up, IMO. Our team as a whole is just soft. Nobody wants to hit and the try and arm tackle, Fujita included.

the Talking Can
11-29-2004, 10:59 AM
From the couch at Rancho Gaz, I cannot tell if Fujita has regressed in Guntherís scheme or whether Mitchell/Caver is dragging him down.

I had high hopes for Mitchell, but he seems to be consistently out of position. Is that affecting Fujita?

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees LB as the core weakness in the D [commence CB howling now].


no one can look good when people are blowing assignments so bad...Fujita and Wesley are the only redeemable parts of our back 7....Fujita can be a good (not great) LB with better talent around him, but if he is your best LB well...you've got problems

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 11:01 AM
From the couch at Rancho Gaz, I cannot tell if Fujita has regressed in Guntherís scheme or whether Mitchell/Caver is dragging him down.

I had high hopes for Mitchell, but he seems to be consistently out of position. Is that affecting Fujita?

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees LB as the core weakness in the D [commence CB howling now].


My rose colored glasses theory suggests that Fuji is overcompensating to make up for weak WLB and MLB positions. But, I see him miss so many head on tackles that I'm beginning to wonder if he lacks the LB tude needed to be effective.

I think DB and LB positions are equally poor. It's hard to distinguish what looks worse when it's a train wreck.......

Chief Henry
11-29-2004, 11:06 AM
Fujita is so over-rated. We need to replace him because he is average at best. He's a FA after this season and nothing better than a back-up, IMO. Our team as a whole is just soft. Nobody wants to hit and the try and arm tackle, Fujita included.


But, but, he was cheaper than resigning Donnie Edwards.

Just another brilliant move by Carl Peterson :banghead:

Rain Man
11-29-2004, 11:09 AM
I'm mystified at Fujita's disappearance this year. It wasn't just homerism last year, as one of those NFL talking head columnists had him listed among their rising stars. He's big and strong and fast and smart. He just disappeared this year.

Chiefnj
11-29-2004, 11:12 AM
But, but, he was cheaper than resigning Donnie Edwards.

Just another brilliant move by Carl Peterson :banghead:

Barber eventually replaced Edwards.

Fujita came in because of the failed Lew Bush experiment.

jspchief
11-29-2004, 11:12 AM
Fujita made a hell of a play chasing down that reverse that was on the opposite side of the field. I watched him run down a WR from behind in the same game that I watched a TE outrun Warfield.

I do think he gets knocked off a lot of tackles. Maybe he's weak, but considering the way the enitre team tackles, I'm more inclined to blame it on fundamantals and coaching.

He's easily the best LB on the team though. At least he makes it to the play, even if he doesn't always drop the guy. Beats the hell out of watching Mitchell and his inability to understand how to fill a gap.

Rain Man
11-29-2004, 11:17 AM
I agree that he has made a couple of good chasedown plays in the last couple of games. I was just expecting him to develop into a leaguewide-recognized good player this year, and I don't think he has.

the Talking Can
11-29-2004, 11:20 AM
the real question is why has everyone except Dalton regressed under Gunther?

and where did all the turnovers go?

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 11:21 AM
I agree that he has made a couple of good chasedown plays in the last couple of games. I was just expecting him to develop into a leaguewide-recognized good player this year, and I don't think he has.

Running down players is great, especially (and only) if the guy hadn't already gone past you once. However, he's been rotten taking guys straight up (blockers or ball carriers). I saw a lot of this last year as well, and was chastised whenever I doubted the "future" of our LB corp.

HC_Chief
11-29-2004, 11:23 AM
There isn't a SINGLE player on _efense I wouldn't mind replacing.

The entire roster should be on notice.... you're playing for your job now, kiddo.

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 11:26 AM
the real question is why has everyone except Dalton regressed under Gunther?

and where did all the turnovers go?

Good question. Dalton just continues to impress. Is there anyone on this bb that actually thought this was a good pickup at the beg. of the year?

htismaqe
11-29-2004, 11:34 AM
Harts was MUCH better than Woods...

Rausch
11-29-2004, 11:46 AM
the real question is why has everyone except Dalton regressed under Gunther?

and where did all the turnovers go?

I thought our front 7 looked pretty good for the most part. We were starting our 3rd string MLB, our 2nd String OLB, BOTH of our second string safeties, and still shut down Tomlinson.

Harts looked solid in run support and ok in the passing game, but everyone else in the secondary can't seem to play with any consistency...

HC_Chief
11-29-2004, 11:47 AM
Harts looked solid in run support and ok in the passing game, but everyone else in the secondary can't seem to play with any consistency...

Guinta needs to pack his bags...

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 11:48 AM
Guinta needs to pack his bags...

and take the entire secondary with him.......Honestly, how much worse could we be if we had to start all over?

beavis
11-29-2004, 11:52 AM
Harts was MUCH better than Woods...
I'm starting to jump on that bandwagon too. It appears Woods is on the downward slide. Sucks, I've always liked him.

Gaz
11-29-2004, 11:54 AM
and take the entire secondary with him.......Honestly, how much worse could we be if we had to start all over?

Warfield, Wesley & Harts are keepers.

xoxo~
Gaz
Still forlornly holding out hope for Battle & Bartee.

beavis
11-29-2004, 11:59 AM
Still forlornly holding out hope for Battle & Bartee.

I don't see how anyone could hold out any hope at all for Bartee.

Unless you are needing someone new to work your drive through window.

Chief Faithful
11-29-2004, 12:04 PM
Yes it was Dexter laying the wood to Gates...watch Monday Night Countdown on ESPN tonight...and you should see it as Gates gets "Jacked-up".

Maybe the Chiefs should try McCleon at Safety.

Chiefnj
11-29-2004, 12:04 PM
Harts seems to do much better against the run than the pass. I think he is better suited to be a backup strong safety.

Gaz
11-29-2004, 12:05 PM
I don't see how anyone could hold out any hope at all for Bartee...

Gunther wanted Bartee. That indicates that he thought Bartee was a good fit for Guntherís style of Defense. And Bartee showed signs of life earlier.

Thus, my continued hopes for Bartee.

xoxo~
Gaz
Assuming that Gunther saw something the rest of us have not seen yet.

jspchief
11-29-2004, 12:06 PM
I'm a little suprised at the support for Wesley. He's done little to garner my support. It's not the obvious gaffs like Woods, but he's been pretty invisible in most games this year. I just expect safeties to be in on a lot of plays.

Rausch
11-29-2004, 12:08 PM
I'm starting to jump on that bandwagon too. It appears Woods is on the downward slide. Sucks, I've always liked him.

Ditto. He's my favorite defensive player, one of the few productive holdouts from the glory days (along with Browning.) But he's obviously on the downward slide, and probably even a weakness at this point... :(

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 12:10 PM
I just expect safeties to be in on a lot of plays.

Hell, our S's aren't even close in coverage. I've been amazed at how ineffective our S's have been. They get sucked into the wrong coverage 70% of the time.

jspchief
11-29-2004, 12:14 PM
Hell, our S's aren't even close in coverage. I've been amazed at how ineffective our S's have been. They get sucked into the wrong coverage 70% of the time.

Watching the second half of the Indy game is when it sunk in for me. Manning was play-faking almost every snap, and our safeties bit every time. The Colts didn't run once in the second half, yet our safeties were just terrified that they would. At what point do you tell your players, "f*ck it, let them run at us, just stop the deep passes"?

The worst part is,they give entirely too mush respect to the run fake, but when teams actually do run, they're never in position anyway.

Chief Faithful
11-29-2004, 12:17 PM
My rose colored glasses theory suggests that Fuji is overcompensating to make up for weak WLB and MLB positions. But, I see him miss so many head on tackles that I'm beginning to wonder if he lacks the LB tude needed to be effective.

I think DB and LB positions are equally poor. It's hard to distinguish what looks worse when it's a train wreck.......

The Tude has been gone since Maz went down. What this defense needs are playmakers one in the front 7 and another in the back 7. I think Sims, Saivii, Jelly, and Allen are the only ones playing like they deserve an invite back. IMHO the biggest need is CB.

Mitchell is developing, but much too slow. Maybe its time to play Scalan, Fox, and Jones to see if they are worth keeping. The season is lost so play all the young guys to see if any are work saving. I would like to see Battle and Fox move into starting positions for the remainder of the season just to see what they have.

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 12:21 PM
Watching the second half of the Indy game is when it sunk in for me. Manning was play-faking almost every snap, and our safeties bit every time. The Colts didn't run once in the second half, yet our safeties were just terrified that they would. At what point do you tell your players, "f*ck it, let them run at us, just stop the deep passes"?

The worst part is,they give entirely too mush respect to the run fake, but when teams actually do run, they're never in position anyway.

How effective was Brees in the play action fake. Geez, we made him look like an All Pro RB on the fake qb keeper's.

All I ask for, from this rotten, stinky-assed _efense, is that they learn how to contain.

ChiTown
11-29-2004, 12:24 PM
The Tude has been gone since Maz went down. What this defense needs are playmakers one in the front 7 and another in the back 7. I think Sims, Saivii, Jelly, and Allen are the only ones playing like they deserve an invite back. IMHO the biggest need is CB.

Mitchell is developing, but much too slow. Maybe its time to play Scalan, Fox, and Jones to see if they are worth keeping. The season is lost so play all the young guys to see if any are work saving. I would like to see Battle and Fox move into starting positions for the remainder of the season just to see what they have.

Scanlan and Jones are not NFL caliber players. Fred Jones is a ST's player that's playing b/c of injuries. Scanlon may someday be a good ST's player. Beyond that, neither one of these guys is NFL caliber. Fox? Who knows. He's been available the last couple weeks but hasn't played LB (just ST's).

Spicy McHaggis
11-29-2004, 02:20 PM
In all fairness Pile was a 7th rounder who wasn't even on the active list last year IIRC. Woods was a Pro-Bowler last year. The fact that we can even compare these guys is sad. That said my tandem for now would have to be Wesley and Harts. Harts at least is showing he has the huevos to freakin hit somebody.

beavis
11-29-2004, 02:58 PM
They get sucked into the wrong coverage 70% of the time.
Which bugs me, because I know Woods is a better player than that.

BIG_DADDY
11-29-2004, 03:00 PM
I like Wesley but Woods is definately not playing at the level he has in the past.

HC_Chief
11-29-2004, 03:03 PM
Which bugs me, because I know Woods is a better player than that.

Perhaps this is how they show a vote of no confidence for their position coach: Peter Giunta? :hmmm:

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 03:09 PM
Perhaps this is how they show a vote of no confidence for their position coach: Peter Giunta? :hmmm:Guinta sucks, but at some point, Woods has to get it and play like it. Woods is just going through the motions and plays like a puss. He's afraid to hit and is out of position the majority of the time. Woods mailed it in and just collects his paycheck now.

tk13
11-29-2004, 03:16 PM
After seeing that hit he laid on Gates I wonder if we can see McCleon moved to safety... he played there toward the end of his stint in St. Louis I believe.

HC_Chief
11-29-2004, 03:19 PM
After seeing that hit he laid on Gates I wonder if we can see McCleon moved to safety... he played there toward the end of his stint in St. Louis I believe.

Free Safety would probably be a good fit for him. I have no problem w/ corners converting to safety. It's the opposite that bugs me!