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View Full Version : Our top defensive players and the draft.


Rain Man
11-29-2004, 02:14 PM
Our top defensive players:

1. Jared Allen (4th round)
2. Eric Warfield (7th round)
3. Lional Dalton (Street free agent, both originally and with the Chiefs)
4. Scott Fujita (5th round)


What are the implications of that?

HolmeZz
11-29-2004, 02:16 PM
Our best corner and safety were also later rounders.

Chieficus
11-29-2004, 02:18 PM
What are the implications of that?

We only draft OT's with the 1st round pick, trade #2 & 3 away, and then go hog-wild drafting on D in the later rounds???

tyton75
11-29-2004, 02:20 PM
we can't find impact players in the opening rounds.. thats how it looks too me.. (too obvious?)

jcroft
11-29-2004, 02:22 PM
we can't find impact players in the opening rounds.. thats how it looks too me.. (too obvious?)

I think that <em>is</em> too obvious. There has to be a better explanation than this...

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 02:24 PM
We don't go after football players and go after projects in the early rounds. After looking at your list, gawd our drafting has been putrid in recent years. Damn they could take the dartboard approach and have more luck than that.

Rain Man
11-29-2004, 02:25 PM
One potential answer is that we haven't spent a high pick on a DB since Woods and Tongue in 1996, with the marginal exception of a 3rd rounder for Wesley in 1999 or 2000 (whenever).

As for linebackers, can someone help me out? In the past ten years, we've spent a 2nd on Mitchell and a 3rd on Fox. Anyone else?

We've spent a ton of high draft picks on defensive tackles, but few if any high picks on defensive ends.

Have we really just kind of ignored the defense for a long time, other than the DT position? I'm too lazy to look up the draft lists.

jAZ
11-29-2004, 02:27 PM
We are no Baltimore?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=105228

1996 Jonathan Ogden OT and Ray Lewis LB
1997 Peter Boulware LB
1998 Duane Starks CB
1999 Chris McCallister CB
2000 Jamal Lewis and Travis Taylor
2001 Todd Heap TE
2002 Ed Reed S
2003 Terrell Suggs and Kyle Boller
2004 no draft pick

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 02:28 PM
One potential answer is that we haven't spent a high pick on a DB since Woods and Tongue in 1996, with the marginal exception of a 3rd rounder for Wesley in 1999 or 2000 (whenever).

As for linebackers, can someone help me out? In the past ten years, we've spent a 2nd on Mitchell and a 3rd on Fox. Anyone else?

We've spent a ton of high draft picks on defensive tackles, but few if any high picks on defensive ends.

Have we really just kind of ignored the defense for a long time, other than the DT position? I'm too lazy to look up the draft lists.
Don't forget bartee. He's a :cuss: 2nd rounder. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

jcroft
11-29-2004, 02:29 PM
We don't go after football players and go after projects in the early rounds. After looking at your list, gawd our drafting has been putrid in recent years. Damn they could take the dartboard approach and have more luck than that.

I do think this is part of the issue. Vermeil and Peterson definitely seem to have this idea that drafted players don't start the year theiy're drafted. They're projects, to be developed. Both of the last two years Vermeil has told us that no player they could have drafted in round one would have started on their defense. "We're going for depth," he said. That's absurd. Many teams seem to have no trouble drafting starters in round one, and even in rounds two and three.

Lzen
11-29-2004, 02:29 PM
Hicks - Rookie FA in 98
Bartee - 2nd round in 2000

Lzen
11-29-2004, 02:31 PM
Monty Beisel - 4th round 2001

jspchief
11-29-2004, 02:32 PM
We are no Baltimore?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=105228

1996 Jonathan Ogden OT and Ray Lewis LB
1997 Peter Boulware LB
1998 Duane Starks CB
1999 Chris McCallister CB
2000 Jamal Lewis and Travis Taylor
2001 Todd Heap TE
2002 Ed Reed S
2003 Terrell Suggs and Kyle Boller
2004 no draft pick

Okay, Pioli is locked up, how do we get Ozzie Newsome?

jspchief
11-29-2004, 02:34 PM
I do think this is part of the issue. Vermeil and Peterson definitely seem to have this idea that drafted players don't start the year theiy're drafted. They're projects, to be developed. Both of the last two years Vermeil has told us that no player they could have drafted in round one would have started on their defense. "We're going for depth," he said. That's absurd. Many teams seem to have no trouble drafting starters in round one, and even in rounds two and three.

Hearing those quotes from Vermeil infuriates me. Almost every player that was drafted in the first round this year is contributing to their team. he's a moron if he thinks it can't have an immediate impact.

Frankie
11-29-2004, 02:44 PM
So here's the strategy:

Step A- Trade our 1st for someone's 4 through 7 with them tossing in an extra 4th.

Step B- Trade our 2nd for another team's 4 through 7.

Step C- Trade our 3rd for another team's 5 through 7.

This will give us three 4s, four 5s, four 6s, and four 7s. That's 15 lower round picks.

SUPERBOWL HERE WE COME.....

JimNasium
11-29-2004, 02:48 PM
So here's the strategy:

Step A- Trade our 1st for someone's 4 through 7 with them tossing in an extra 4th.

Step B- Trade our 2nd for another team's 4 through 7.

Step C- Trade our 3rd for another team's 5 through 7.

This will give us three 4s, four 5s, four 6s, and four 7s. That's 15 lower round picks.

SUPERBOWL HERE WE COME.....
That's my thought. Carl is a draft gooroo [sic] and he wouldn't have to spend a 2nd rounder on 4th round talent in the above scenario.

htismaqe
11-29-2004, 02:56 PM
I think the problem here is Vermeil's AGE.

It's not that rookies can't contribute, and it's not necessarily wrong to draft guys that need to be developed.

Vermeil just doesn't WANT to develop new players.

Frankie
11-29-2004, 03:00 PM
That's my thought. Carl is a draft gooroo [sic] and he wouldn't have to spend a 2nd rounder on 4th round talent in the above scenario.

Since Rainman's thread doesn't identify any 6th round successes, here's how I'll modify my idea:

Step D- Trade our four 6s for eight more 7s.

Now we have a total of 19 picks. 12 in the 7th round. Man this plan is becoming more and more diabolical. Next year's Superbowl champship is IN THE BAG. :)

JimNasium
11-29-2004, 03:04 PM
Since Rainman's thread doesn't identify any 6th round successes, here's how I'll modify my idea:

Step D- Trade our four 6s for eight more 7s.

Now we have a total of 19 picks. 12 in the 7th round. Man this plan is becoming more and more diabolical. Next year's Superbowl champship is IN THE BAG. :)
:thumb:

Hoover
11-29-2004, 03:19 PM
We spent the last 4 drafts trying to find that monster DT, and it has hurt the rest of the team and the overall defensive unit. You can't focus just on pne position in the draft like the Chiefs have done under DV. And when he don't pick a DT, he & Carl has taken LJ and Kris Wilson. How about a CB or LB you dumb fu@ks?

Hoover
11-29-2004, 03:20 PM
I think the problem here is Vermeil's AGE.

It's not that rookies can't contribute, and it's not necessarily wrong to draft guys that need to be developed.

Vermeil just doesn't WANT to develop new players.
Plus what FA defensive stud wants to come play for a HC thats pushing 70 and has a hard on for offense. next thing you know, you will be on a rebuilding shit team in trhe mid west, what fun!

ChiefsCountry
11-29-2004, 03:28 PM
How about our top offensive players:

1. Priest Holmes (Street free agent)
2. Tony Gonzalez (1st round)
3. Will Shields (3rd round)
4. Trent Green (8th round)

But look at our receivers both of them were 1st round picks.

Rain Man
11-29-2004, 03:34 PM
How about our top offensive players:

1. Priest Holmes (Street free agent)
2. Tony Gonzalez (1st round)
3. Will Shields (3rd round)
4. Trent Green (8th round)

But look at our receivers both of them were 1st round picks.


It seems like our offensive guys are all either first round picks or street free agents. It seems like our defensive guys are either high-round defensive tackles or non-high-round picks.

Spicy McHaggis
11-29-2004, 03:51 PM
It says what everyone knows. We need new people making decisions in the FO because obviously these people are not bringing the groceries. Honestly I believe that myself and a number of other people on this board could do a better job drafting in the first and second rounds.

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 03:53 PM
It says what everyone knows. We need new people making decisions in the FO because obviously these people are not bringing the groceries. Honestly I believe that myself and a number of other people on this board could do a better job drafting in the first and second rounds.I agree. Hell, the dartboard approach would be more effective that the Chiefs past few drafts.

andoman
11-29-2004, 05:45 PM
How about our top offensive players:

1. Priest Holmes (Street free agent)
2. Tony Gonzalez (1st round)
3. Will Shields (3rd round)
4. Trent Green (8th round)

But look at our receivers both of them were 1st round picks.

Trent was somebody else's 8th round pick (Eggo?). He was our 1st round pick.

Straight, No Chaser
11-29-2004, 07:03 PM
It says what everyone knows. We need new people making decisions in the FO because obviously these people are not bringing the groceries. Honestly I believe that myself and a number of other people on this board could do a better job drafting in the first and second rounds.

At least there's two people that read Whitlock



---->

Cannibal
11-29-2004, 07:17 PM
Our top defensive players:

1. Jared Allen (4th round)
2. Eric Warfield (7th round)
3. Lional Dalton (Street free agent, both originally and with the Chiefs)
4. Scott Fujita (5th round)


What are the implications of that?

I think Allen is going to be a good, not great player. Warfield sucks balls. Dalton has a chance to be pretty good (I could live with him as a starter) and Fujita is one of the better backers on a horrible unit.

Basically what it says to me is that our best players on D are pretty damn mediocre and that the rest of the bunch sucks even worse.

shaneo69
11-29-2004, 07:19 PM
Okay, Pioli is locked up, how do we get Ozzie Newsome?

Well, Lamar would have to target him, and honestly, I don't know if Lamar realizes that Ozzie doesn't play TE for Cleveland anymore.

Mr. Laz
11-29-2004, 08:12 PM
Well, Lamar would have to target him, and honestly, I don't know if Lamar realizes that Ozzie doesn't play TE for Cleveland anymore.

i would laugh if i didnt think that it might be true :sulk:

TEX
11-29-2004, 08:18 PM
At least there's two people that read Whitlock



---->

Count me in as a 3rd.

Frankie
11-30-2004, 06:16 PM
Count me in as a 3rd.

OK, you are a tur.... Oh, you said third!!

(Sorry TEX. Only a joke :) )