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View Full Version : OK Kris Wilson is the greatest thing since sliced bread... why no I/R for him?


Logical
11-29-2004, 03:25 PM
Seems like we wasted a valuable roster spot all season.

Any opinions?

jcroft
11-29-2004, 03:27 PM
Maybe, but who would you have plugged into his spot that would have helped?

tk13
11-29-2004, 03:28 PM
He was inactive every week wasn't he? It's not like we took up an active roster spot with him.... instead of him being inactive it would've just been Chris Horn or Scanlon or somebody being inactive on gameday in his place for the entire season.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 03:32 PM
It was a DV move thinking he would help us down the stretch... right now I say we are doing a very good job of mucking things up for a top 5 draft pick.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-29-2004, 03:32 PM
Why? The players we have are good enough. Dick said so.

Hoover
11-29-2004, 03:34 PM
well at least we can see what he brings to the table yet this year

KC Kings
11-29-2004, 03:35 PM
Because our wide receivers didn't start catching balls until week 5. Look at what happened with Dunn when we plugged him in the spot reserved for Wilson, and ran some of the plays that were practiced all summer long. If this season was a repeat of last year and Priest had of carried us this far by himself, and we were still in the playoff picture, and Kris Wilson happened to be a rookie that wouldn't miss being out for injury for 4 months, and didn't need anytime to get into "NFL" shape,,,,,, we would be sitting pretty right now.

Logical
11-29-2004, 03:35 PM
He was inactive every week wasn't he? It's not like we took up an active roster spot with him.... instead of him being inactive it would've just been Chris Horn or Scanlon or somebody being inactive on gameday in his place for the entire season.

Still he was taking up one of our very valuable 53 player spots. As bad as this team is there is no one out there that could not have got valuable experience, what about that offensive lineman we released that ended up playing for Indy?

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 03:36 PM
I agree Jim, IR would have been our best route to take.

jcroft
11-29-2004, 03:38 PM
I agree Jim, IR would have been our best route to take.

In hindsight it's easy to say that, but it made sense to most of us at the time. We were looking at competing for a playoff spot, the team was very high on Wilson, and it seemed like a grand idea to be able to add another weapon to the mix right as we hit the stretch run.

Of course it looks stupid now, but hindsight is always 20/20.

jcroft
11-29-2004, 03:39 PM
As bad as this team is...

That's just it -- this team didn't consider themselves to be "bad" when that decision was made. We were supposed to be a Superbowl contender.

That lineman, BTW, was Ryan Lilja.

Logical
11-29-2004, 03:41 PM
That's just it -- this team didn't consider themselves to be "bad" when that decision was made. We were supposed to be a Superbowl contender.

That lineman, BTW, was Ryan Lilja.

Thanks, yes it was Ryan and IMO we would have been much better off letting him have the roster spot while Wilson legitimately ended up on the IR for the year.

jcroft
11-29-2004, 03:42 PM
Thanks, yes it was Ryan and IMO we would have been much better off letting him have the roster spot while Wilson legitimately ended up on the IR for the year.

Probably so. But again, we're looking at it from the perspective of KNOWING that we suck. They were looking at it as "how can we make ourselfs better just before the playoffs" when the decision was made.

Logical
11-29-2004, 03:43 PM
In hindsight it's easy to say that, but it made sense to most of us at the time. We were looking at competing for a playoff spot, the team was very high on Wilson, and it seemed like a grand idea to be able to add another weapon to the mix right as we hit the stretch run.

Of course it looks stupid now, but hindsight is always 20/20.


I suppose the fact that I thought we had blown it in the offseason and did not consider us as a SB contender does not make it hindsight for me. But for many others I guess I can see some merit.

jcroft
11-29-2004, 03:44 PM
I suppose the fact that I thought we had blown it in the offseason and did not consider us as a SB contender does not make it hindsight for me. But for many others I guess I can see some merit.

Yeah, you clearly knew better than most of us. Unfortantley, you didn't get to make the decision. :)

Rausch
11-29-2004, 03:45 PM
I suppose the fact that I thought we had blown it in the offseason and did not consider us as a SB contender does not make it hindsight for me. But for many others I guess I can see some merit.

Well then, you and Memyslefislamicfundamentalist should make quite a fortune telling tandem...

tk13
11-29-2004, 03:46 PM
Still he was taking up one of our very valuable 53 player spots. As bad as this team is there is no one out there that could not have got valuable experience, what about that offensive lineman we released that ended up playing for Indy?
Eh, I think you're just being really ticky tack. You're using hindsight when considering where this season has gone I think it retrospect it looks actually like a pretty good move. It allows Wilson to be able to take some reps in actual game situations... which for next year I think is more important than making sure a backup RG gets some snaps.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 03:49 PM
In hindsight it's easy to say that, but it made sense to most of us at the time. We were looking at competing for a playoff spot, the team was very high on Wilson, and it seemed like a grand idea to be able to add another weapon to the mix right as we hit the stretch run.

Of course it looks stupid now, but hindsight is always 20/20.

Putting a guy on the roster that's injured for over half the year is bad idea to start with. The guy has talent, but he was unproven. Maybe a guy with superstar talent, but not a rookie.

I said then it was a bad move then, I still feel it was.

Rausch
11-29-2004, 03:52 PM
Putting a guy on the roster that's injured for over half the year is bad idea to start with. The guy has talent, but he was unproven. Maybe a guy with superstar talent, but not a rookie.

I said then it was a bad move then, I still feel it was.

I don't think it matters because A) It isn't like we cut someone who would have made a difference in this year and B) He gets a jump start on next year, and we'll need all the help we can get...

This year is over. It would have been over with Wilson on or off IR. Unless he can play LB or CB...

Logical
11-29-2004, 03:58 PM
I don't think it matters because A) It isn't like we cut someone who would have made a difference in this year and B) He gets a jump start on next year, and we'll need all the help we can get...

This year is over. It would have been over with Wilson on or off IR. Unless he can play LB or CB...

Yeah it is not like Will Shields is almost ready to retire and a young Ryan Lilja might have been able to replace him when he does.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 04:01 PM
I don't think it matters because A) It isn't like we cut someone who would have made a difference in this year and B) He gets a jump start on next year, and we'll need all the help we can get...

This year is over. It would have been over with Wilson on or off IR. Unless he can play LB or CB...

I disagree Brad, we gave up on a DL or a OL position that might up bloosomed in our system with another year. Wilson would have been protected for next year.

Who's to say Ryan, Eric or Eddie might have not flourished with a year/ another year with us ? Pile and Harts spent plenty of time on the practice squad / active squad. Some guys take longer to develope, some never do.

But to take a guy with potential, leave him inactive for 11 weeks, with 9 of those weeks doing nothing is not using your roster to it's fullest .

BTA, IMHO.

jspchief
11-29-2004, 04:04 PM
Yeah it is not like Will Shields is almost ready to retire and a young Ryan Lilja might have been able to replace him when he does.

Drama anyone? If Lilja was that good, he'd have made the roster anyway. Just because he starts for an NFL team now, that doesn't neccessairly mean he's good...we have an entire defense that's living proof of that.

I kind of like the idea that we'll get him back in time to get him 4-5 games of live action experience. That fact that the season's a bust just makes it easier to take more chances/lumps with him.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 04:13 PM
Drama anyone? If Lilja was that good, he'd have made the roster anyway. Just because he starts for an NFL team now, that doesn't neccessairly mean he's good...we have an entire defense that's living proof of that.

I kind of like the idea that we'll get him back in time to get him 4-5 games of live action experience. That fact that the season's a bust just makes it easier to take more chances/lumps with him.

DV liked him alot, spoke highly of him until the bad game he had in Dallas, then it was DV idea to cut and sign him to the PS.

Again, some guys take longer to develope than others, some never do.

Phobia
11-29-2004, 04:18 PM
Putting a guy on the roster that's injured for over half the year is bad idea to start with. The guy has talent, but he was unproven. Maybe a guy with superstar talent, but not a rookie.

I said then it was a bad move then, I still feel it was.

That's an excellent take.

If Tony Gonzalez is injured and destined to miss the first 10-12 games of the season, keep a roster spot open for the guy. You don't keep a roster spot available for a rookie who has never played a snap in the NFL. Especially not when you put another one of your developmental players at risk. That Lilja loss could potentially haunt us for a long time.

Logical
11-29-2004, 04:22 PM
I will say this, now that they have wasted this roster spot for most of the season. I hope he gets a ton of action in the last 4-5 games.

jspchief
11-29-2004, 04:23 PM
So how many games is too many to wait? It seems like Wilson was originally slated to be back in about 8 weeks.

To be honest, I don't give a sh*t what Vermeil said about Lilja. Vermeil still won't admit that woods sucks. Given the choice between having a second round pick available late in the season, or keeping some PS guy that would likely never see the field, I'm inclined to choose the guy that has more potential to have an impact.

Logical
11-29-2004, 04:43 PM
So how many games is too many to wait? It seems like Wilson was originally slated to be back in about 8 weeks.

To be honest, I don't give a sh*t what Vermeil said about Lilja. Vermeil still won't admit that woods sucks. Given the choice between having a second round pick available late in the season, or keeping some PS guy that would likely never see the field, I'm inclined to choose the guy that has more potential to have an impact.

Being as Lilja as I understand it has actually been getting playing time it would seem that DV was right this time. When Shields is near retirement how can you be so cavalier about a potential replacement?

jspchief
11-29-2004, 04:57 PM
Being as Lilja as I understand it has actually been getting playing time it would seem that DV was right this time. When Shields is near retirement how can you be so cavalier about a potential replacement?

First off, Lilja is getting playing time because Indy's O-line is decimated by injuries. But even so, you're using the hindsight of knowing he's capable of playing to determine we shouldn't have let him go.

And I'm not cavalier at all. I'm just not ignoring the fact that we have other players that the coaches felt are more capable of filling the role should the need arise. It's not like we don't have back-up O-linemen.

If you want to point a finger at the lack of depth on the O-line, look no further than the nine D-linemen we have, many of whom have no business being on an NFL team.

Logical
11-29-2004, 05:10 PM
First off, Lilja is getting playing time because Indy's O-line is decimated by injuries. But even so, you're using the hindsight of knowing he's capable of playing to determine we shouldn't have let him go.

And I'm not cavalier at all. I'm just not ignoring the fact that we have other players that the coaches felt are more capable of filling the role should the need arise. It's not like we don't have back-up O-linemen.

If you want to point a finger at the lack of depth on the O-line, look no further than the nine D-linemen we have, many of whom have no business being on an NFL team.

I disagree, it is not hindsight when DV himself said he made a mistake just a couple of days after Lilja was picked up. Saying he made the mistake of believing he could slip him through on waivers. Personally I have not seen any quality backup young guards on this squad. Who are you referring to when you say that?

nmt1
11-29-2004, 05:14 PM
The bottom line is putting Wilson on IR and keeping Lilja wouldn't have made one bit of a difference. We'd still be 3-8 with Lilja. There isn't anyone on our practice squad or on any other team's practice squad or anyone roaming around out there in free agency right now that would've made us anything other than 3-8.
I'm happy they kept Wilson on the 53 man roster. Maybe he'll get some snaps. I'd rather have Wilson available eventually than have some offensive lineman we don't need sitting there not even dressing because he's buried on the depth chart of the deepest and best unit on the team.

tk13
11-29-2004, 05:20 PM
Wow, I'm surprised this argument has become as big as it has ... there are tons of more legitimate gripes about this team above some 3rd string guard sitting on the inactive list or practice squad.

If Shields were to get hurt or retire, Welbourn would move back to his natural RG position and we'd leave Bober at RT. If one of those guys got hurt we'd have Welbourn at RG and put Kevin Sampson at RT, or Bober at RG and Sampson at RT, or if push came to shove I imagine we'd have the option of sliding Jordan Black over to RG or RT to fill a hole.

Yeah, it sucks to lose a guy who could efficiently play, but I think that speaks to our offensive line depth and Indianapolis' lack thereof... although really the Colts do a great job of making sure whoever they have to put gets it done without fail.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 05:24 PM
The bottom line is putting Wilson on IR and keeping Lilja wouldn't have made one bit of a difference. We'd still be 3-8 with Lilja. There isn't anyone on our practice squad or on any other team's practice squad or anyone roaming around out there in free agency right now that would've made us anything other than 3-8.
I'm happy they kept Wilson on the 53 man roster. Maybe he'll get some snaps. I'd rather have Wilson available eventually than have some offensive lineman we don't need sitting there not even dressing because he's buried on the depth chart of the deepest and best unit on the team.

BTA, could we of found out if Ryan was going to be able to step in for Willie or Will ?

We will never find out now.

Kinda like having guys on the roster we all feel can play or want to see them play but never getting the chance.

When you give up on them before getting or never give them a chance, you don't know what you have.

BTA,how much better could we be next year if Ryan had came alive and developed, or a Downing, maybe Freeman, or somebody else that we cut and a healthy Wilson with all the glitter and hype he brings to the offense. I dunno .....

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 05:26 PM
I disagree, it is not hindsight when DV himself said he made a mistake just a couple of days after Lilja was picked up. Saying he made the mistake of believing he could slip him through on waivers. Personally I have not seen any quality backup young guards on this squad. Who are you referring to when you say that?

DV did say this and he wasn't happy in losing him, it's a #'s game and he lost out.

tk13
11-29-2004, 05:28 PM
Personally I have not seen any quality backup young guards on this squad. Who are you referring to when you say that?
How about in the Baltimore game when Jordan Black "double teamed" Super Ray-Ray Lewis all by himself?...

Logical
11-29-2004, 05:30 PM
Wow, I'm surprised this argument has become as big as it has ... there are tons of more legitimate gripes about this team above some 3rd string guard sitting on the inactive list or practice squad.

If Shields were to get hurt or retire, Welbourn would move back to his natural RG position and we'd leave Bober at RT. If one of those guys got hurt we'd have Welbourn at RG and put Kevin Sampson at RT, or Bober at RG and Sampson at RT, or if push came to shove I imagine we'd have the option of sliding Jordan Black over to RG or RT to fill a hole.

Yeah, it sucks to lose a guy who could efficiently play, but I think that speaks to our offensive line depth and Indianapolis' lack thereof... although really the Colts do a great job of making sure whoever they have to put gets it done without fail.

I think the amount of responses to this thread possibly speaks to Wilson having been an unpopular choice unneccesarily taking up roster space when he could have logically went on the IR. It is just one more example of poor management by the coaching staff and front office.

This is not an actual reflection on Wilson who might be the greatest thing since sliced bread and hell may even teach Larry Johnson how to block.

Logical
11-29-2004, 05:32 PM
How about in the Baltimore game when Jordan Black "double teamed" Super Ray-Ray Lewis all by himself?...I like Jordan Black but I am hoping he is the replacement for the other Will(ie).

j/k

jspchief
11-29-2004, 05:38 PM
I think the amount of responses to this thread possibly speaks to Wilson having been an unpopular choice unneccesarily taking up roster space when he could have logically went on the IR. It is just one more example of poor management by the coaching staff and front office.

This is not an actual reflection on Wilson who might be the greatest thing since sliced bread and hell may even teach Larry Johnson how to block.

If you want to talk about how stupid it was to take a TE with that pick, I'm sure we'll be typing ditto in response to each other a lot.

When we made the decision to pu Lilja on waivers, it was with the idea that we want guys on our roster that will help us win now (as in this season). With that line of thinking, we made the right choice so far. For it to have been the wrong choice, we not only needed Shield to go down, we also needed a Lilja to pass Black on the depth chart. Maybe that would have happened, I don't know. What I do know is, if we were in the middle of a play-off season, most of us would be pleased with the prospect ofgetting another weapon in our arsenal just in time for the play-offs.

Phobia
11-29-2004, 06:19 PM
Wow, I'm surprised this argument has become as big as it has ... there are tons of more legitimate gripes about this team above some 3rd string guard sitting on the inactive list or practice squad.

But this one is a fresh take, not having appeared in some column or a dittohead's radio show. This is actually a very cool topic.

If Shields were to get hurt or retire, Welbourn would move back to his natural RG position and we'd leave Bober at RT.

What now that Welbourne is on IR and potentially through forever?

Logical
11-29-2004, 08:11 PM
But this one is a fresh take, not having appeared in some column or a dittohead's radio show. This is actually a very cool topic.



What now that Welbourne is on IR and potentially through forever?

I guess I did not know that Welbourne had a potential career ending injury. Shows what a 3-6 now 3-7 record will do to the attention I pay to details.

Phobia
11-29-2004, 08:16 PM
I guess I did not know that Welbourne had a potential career ending injury. Shows what a 3-6 now 3-7 record will do to the attention I pay to details.

It's pure conjecture. He's had back to back season ending injuries to the same knee. I guess there's potential there, huh?

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 08:41 PM
It's pure conjecture. He's had back to back season ending injuries to the same knee. I guess there's potential there, huh?

The official DV spin is, ( not exact, but close it as I recall )it's a little sore and lose, but it doesn't need surgery. We decided to rest him the remainder of the year and let it heal on it's own.


So for the FWIW department, take over ........

Rausch
11-29-2004, 09:54 PM
It's pure conjecture. He's had back to back season ending injuries to the same knee. I guess there's potential there, huh?

I can't say I see any potential in the guy...