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View Full Version : OK, let's talk a little D here......


ROYC75
11-29-2004, 06:45 PM
Rollouts, sweeps, cutbacks and end arounds are killing us. What's up with that ? Really, how hard is it to teach a DE or LB containment instead of crashing the ball all of the time ?

Really, how hard is it, somebody answer this. I mean I'm not a professional but in high school it was easy, it basically boils down to discipline. Maybe that's it, we are so undiscipline this year .

Somebody, anybody, if you can answer this, either I'm missing this or is it the Chiefs players. :hmmm:

Baby Lee
11-29-2004, 06:48 PM
Disciplined and fast LBs. Ray Lewis alone could've halved the yards those cutback artists got against us this year.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 06:52 PM
The MLB must delay his reaction just a second to read the actual play but yet have the speed needed to cover the hole or the POA needed. Mitchell reacts quickly, thus leaving himself out of place many times.

The OLB has to take the similar approach, but all of them must do there work in the film rooms to reconize the plays as they develope in front of them.

The DE's are doing the same, they react and crash to the ball on the sanp, leaving them open to the end arounds and cutbacks.

Tribal Warfare
11-29-2004, 06:55 PM
That's exactly why I'm on the Derrick Johnson and/or Ahmad Brooks bandwagon for the 2005 draft

Saulbadguy
11-29-2004, 06:56 PM
Teamwork. Our defense does not operate as a unit, period. Individual breakdowns are much more costly when there are more of them. DE get caught up in a bootleg? No problem..the LB should be in coverage, not reacting towards the WRONG way. So..the LB reacts to the wrong direction..no problem, the guy will make the catch now, but a cornerback should make the tackle. CB misses the tackle? Well, one of the safeties will be there. Safety misses it..whoops, touchdown.

jspchief
11-29-2004, 07:03 PM
It takes discipline. The same kind of discipline that makes you use your arms when you tackle, the kind that makes you secure the football when you're running with it, the kind that tells you when to just throw it away instead of forcing it into double coverage, the kind that keeps penalties to a minimum.

The teams lacks discipline in every part of the game. Our coaches need to answer for this.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 07:06 PM
A play is designed to work if all players work it the same way. If one gets out of position, usually you can recover. If 2 or more lose site of what their assignment is, you have a major breakdown.

Containment is not hard to play, but you do have to have the strenght to maintain your position.

With Gun, he wants a more attacking scheme to take place, thus creating players who crash the ball. Now you have players in motion that must have the ability to react but still contain if needed.

Are our guys smart enough to pull this off or just dumb enough to continue to be out of place ?

Wile_E_Coyote
11-29-2004, 07:07 PM
let's give them Monday off after a loss

Demonpenz
11-29-2004, 07:12 PM
not only do you have to play "smart" but we don't have DE or Linebackers with NFL talent. On those rollouts most DE's close 2 times as fast as the chiefs DE's It may look out of position, but it is ususally because they are so slow, it looks like they are out of position

TEX
11-29-2004, 07:27 PM
Disciplined and fast LBs. Ray Lewis alone could've halved the yards those cutback artists got against us this year.

Yep. I know we have tons of issues on _efense, but I've felt for 3 seasons now (ever since they played MAZ at OLB ROFL ) that our LB's have been the weakest part of our _efense. IMO only Fuj could start for some NFL teams, though his play this year would suggest otherwise, and NONE could start on any team with an average defense. :shake:

BigChiefFan
11-29-2004, 07:27 PM
The DEs are biting on the play-action and the LBers can't tackle when the DEs bite to make up for it. We have Fujita, Mitchell, and Caver starting, it's no wonder our defense sucks so bad.

MadMax
11-29-2004, 07:42 PM
It takes discipline. The same kind of discipline that makes you use your arms when you tackle, the kind that makes you secure the football when you're running with it, the kind that tells you when to just throw it away instead of forcing it into double coverage, the kind that keeps penalties to a minimum.

The teams lacks discipline in every part of the game. Our coaches need to answer for this.

I agree with that analysis.I also agree we need ( sweeping) changes in coaches. I will give Gun a pass since I believe he tried but didn't succeed in turning chicken shit into chicken sald.... Bottom line, we need some freakin talent on D...These clowns have had EVERY opportinity (sp?) and has allowed EVERY team in the league to have CAREER days on us....I also agree with Whitlock, Carl's talent evaluators need to get the F*CK outa KC... ;-)

ChiefsCountry
11-29-2004, 07:45 PM
Derrick Johnson. :p as our MLB.

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 09:51 PM
Derrick Johnson. :p as our MLB.

Kid has a world of talent, if he has it upstairs to learn the MLB spot, I'm OK with it, if not he will be a monster on the OLB position.

Tribal Warfare
11-29-2004, 09:56 PM
the other monster is Ahmad Brooks , and he's a true MLB

ROYC75
11-29-2004, 10:48 PM
the other monster is Ahmad Brooks , and he's a true MLB

He has had a solid year, shows good batural ability to shed blockers and tackles well.

Wonder if he would fall to the 2nd round ?

DV and CP need to address as much help as we can in FA, we need playmakers now, then fill in with the draft.

Gaz
11-30-2004, 06:39 AM
I wonder if that is not a result of Guntherís strategy to stop the run first.

BTW, I agree that our LB corps is a real problem.

xoxo~
Gaz
Pensive this morning.

BigRedChief
11-30-2004, 08:27 AM
DV said at his press conference that they have the defensive players in place that the issue is coaching. Doesn't see a need to make major changes on the defense. Swear to god. Hear it from his own mouth. About choked to death on my leftover turkey.

DaWolf
11-30-2004, 08:53 AM
DV said at his press conference that they have the defensive players in place that the issue is coaching. Doesn't see a need to make major changes on the defense. Swear to god. Hear it from his own mouth. About choked to death on my leftover turkey.

I think a lot of it is still the coaching. Gunther is a good coordinator when he's got his type of players playing for him, but he isn't one to adjust or innovate to the talent he has. He knows one way to play D, and that is to attack and create turnovers. His D has always taken chances and given up big plays. It was offset by getting big plays of their own, and more often. But it's not something that is gonna work if you don't have playmakers, and it's not something that's gonna be able to mask talent that isn't the greatest, like a Bellichik could probably do. Now I know that we all feel we have a lack of talent at D, but as the old NFL saying goes, "Every team has talent, it just comes down to how you use the talent." San Diego's D was rated right about where ours was last year. They bring in Wade Phillips, make a few changes, he changes to a 3-4, and viola, they are now a good defense that can stop the run.

This is not to say that we don't need to upgrade the talent, only a blind man and Carl Peterson would think that. We need IMO a huge upgrade at linebacker (I've been saying that since we idiotically handed the MLB job to Mike MaSLOWski) and we've gotta find someone who can rush the passer, otherwise QB's can just do whatever the heck they want out there (and we need better corners, but what else is new). Gun can be successful if he can bring in more of his types of players. But I still think this group of players, if coached better and coached differently, could perform at a better level than they are today. Not top 10 level, but a better level. The assistants, Gun, the front office, they all deserve some of the blame. The players deserve most of it. It has been a poorly coached defense, and the players have played undisciplined football.

But it is not a problem that can't be fixed in one offseason, IMO. A few player additions and lineup changes, an impact draft pick, a couple of assistant coaching changes on the staff, and an offseason focus on fundamentals and discipline and our D could be having a similar turnaround to what San Diego's or Atlanta's has done...