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View Full Version : Should Carl Peterson stay or leave?


Logical
11-30-2004, 10:04 AM
Survey says?

Discuss your reasons below please.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-30-2004, 10:06 AM
This is too easy.

morphius
11-30-2004, 10:07 AM
I have accepted that he will be here for one more year, so I'm pretty apathetic on the whole subject.

Coach
11-30-2004, 10:07 AM
No. Recently, 1 playoff appearence in 7 seasons. Standing pat, especially on the defensive side (Other than getting Dalton) that needed major improvements from last year.

I want him out.

BigMeatballDave
11-30-2004, 10:08 AM
This is almost like asking, "Should the Sun keep rising and giving us light and life, or just go full-on supernova?"

Brock
11-30-2004, 10:09 AM
Duh.

Rain Man
11-30-2004, 10:16 AM
Yushenko! Yushenko!


The crowds are gathering in the streets.

Logical
11-30-2004, 10:16 AM
Wile_E_Coyote that maverick says stay.

BigRedChief
11-30-2004, 10:17 AM
Shudda, cudda, wouldda :deevee:


16 years of drafting and not on single impact WR, RB or QB.

6 losing seasons out of the last 7 with 3 different head coaches.

2 playoff wins in 16 years.

:hmmm: let me think about it for awhile. Maybe he just needs more time to right the ship.

RNR
11-30-2004, 10:18 AM
This is too easy.
True.........yes he should stay :p

Wile_E_Coyote
11-30-2004, 10:18 AM
Wile_E_Coyote that maverick says stay.

he & Dick will stroll out together...it's gonna happen

Logical
11-30-2004, 10:21 AM
Gaz like Beaker is just unexplainable

Philfree, the ultimate loyal blind homer

RedNeckRaider now this is one vote that makes sense.

RNR
11-30-2004, 10:23 AM
Gaz like Beaker is just unexplainable

Philfree, the ultimate loyal blind homer

RedNeckRaider now this is one vote that makes sense. Sorry, but if I have to deal with Davis it is only fair you guys stay stuck with Carl :harumph: :)

Otter
11-30-2004, 10:29 AM
2 playoff wins in 16 years and 16 years of drafting and not on single impact WR, RB or QB.

I'd be interested in hearing from those who voted he should stay when exactly they believe a change is due.

Logical
11-30-2004, 10:29 AM
Sorry, but if I have to deal with Davis it is only fair you guys stay stuck with Carl :harumph: :)

At least Greasy Al can spot talent, but then he is not smart enough to leave it to the coaches.

Dartgod
11-30-2004, 10:30 AM
Sorry, but if I have to deal with Davis it is only fair you guys stay stuck with Carl :harumph: :)
Well, if the criteria is that Al stays as long as Carl does, then I want to change my vote.

RNR
11-30-2004, 10:32 AM
Well, if the criteria is that Al stays as long as Carl does, then I want to change my vote.
ROFL I served it up :banghead:

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-30-2004, 10:32 AM
Anyone voting stay should be banned.

RNR
11-30-2004, 10:34 AM
Anyone voting stay should be banned.Only after you take a poll to see if that is what everyone wants.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-30-2004, 10:34 AM
Only after you take a poll to see if that is what everyone wants.
oh yea...ok. good.

Dartgod
11-30-2004, 10:35 AM
Anyone voting stay should be banned.
Could a mod please change Duh-nese's vote to "Stay"?

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-30-2004, 10:36 AM
Could a mod please change Duh-nese's vote to "Stay"?
ROFL

Deberg_1990
11-30-2004, 10:44 AM
He should have left in 1998....But honestly, i wouldnt mind him staying if he gave up some of his responsibilities and hire a personell specialist and draft guru. Someone who is an EXPERT and has past sucess judgeing talent.

Logical
11-30-2004, 10:44 AM
OK I have to admit I am shocked about Rausch's vote to stay. Good painkillers maybe?

Coach
11-30-2004, 10:45 AM
OK I have to admit I am shocked about Rausch's vote to stay. Good painkillers maybe?
What's even more interesting to me is, why did Gaz wanted him to stay?

morphius
11-30-2004, 10:54 AM
OK I have to admit I am shocked about Rausch's vote to stay. Good painkillers maybe?
Why should you be? He has been saying that the entire time.

WilliamTheIrish
11-30-2004, 10:58 AM
He's still here?

BigChiefFan
11-30-2004, 11:29 AM
What's even more interesting to me is, why did Gaz wanted him to stay?
Haven't you heard? Gaz doesn't think it's the defenses fault were in this mess.

go bowe
11-30-2004, 11:56 AM
go, he should go...

and soon...

htismaqe
11-30-2004, 12:02 PM
He should have left after 1998.

I've pretty much accepted the fact that he'll be here at least one more year.

Logical
11-30-2004, 01:43 PM
Why should you be? He has been saying that the entire time.

Guess I have not been paying attention.

Rausch
11-30-2004, 03:22 PM
Guess I have not been paying attention.

That's it, I've been neglected for the last time. This relationship is over...

Wile_E_Coyote
11-30-2004, 04:55 PM
this sounds like the line we heard last year before R obinson "resigned"


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_CHIEFS_VERMEIL?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=SPORTS

"I will do as I've done every year for the last 15 years," Peterson said. "At the conclusion of the season I'm going to require everybody to take a deep breath. Then we'll sit down shortly after that and we'll evaluate the entire season and all aspects of it.

"Everything and everyone will be fair game."

That includes what we can and cannot do in the future - dollars, who we want back, coaching, administration, scouting, athletic training, everything. Then we'll make good, objective, unemotional decisions," Peterson said. "This has been a very difficult season, no question about it."

Saulbadguy
11-30-2004, 05:09 PM
Stay. Can't hurt.

2bikemike
11-30-2004, 05:15 PM
I would say its time to step down. I think this team is in need of some fresh blood. Unfortunately I don't have a clue as to who would be available that is worth a damn. I admit I know little about the GM pool.

Logical
11-30-2004, 06:39 PM
Stay. Can't hurt.

I thought this was sarcasm until I checked the voting.

Saulbadguy
11-30-2004, 06:39 PM
I thought this was sarcasm until I checked the voting.
Call me "Margin of error"
ROFL

Coach
11-30-2004, 06:41 PM
I'm not suprised that this poll is a f*cking landslide.

Bwana
11-30-2004, 06:43 PM
Greyhound.............

nychief
11-30-2004, 06:45 PM
I have not taken the time to read this entire thread... so forgive me if i am repeating something others have said - but here goes...

Do I think he SHOULD go? Yes.
Do I think he WILL go? Unless Lamar kicks both he and Dick out... and seeing as Dick has said he expects to be back.... NO way. No way in hell does he walk away on this train wreak. Dick is too proud (and loyal!!!) and Peterson thinks he is a god in K.C. - so, IMO, they will moderately reload, pray that the division sucks, take it to the limit one more time...

BigRedChief
11-30-2004, 08:29 PM
I have not taken the time to read this entire thread... so forgive me if i am repeating something others have said - but here goes...

Do I think he SHOULD go? Yes.
Do I think he WILL go? Unless Lamar kicks both he and Dick out... and seeing as Dick has said he expects to be back.... NO way. No way in hell does he walk away on this train wreak. Dick is too proud (and loyal!!!) and Peterson thinks he is a god in K.C. - so, IMO, they will moderately reload, pray that the division sucks, take it to the limit one more time...

Lazy poster.:)

nychief
11-30-2004, 08:43 PM
Lazy poster.:)
:thumb:

Taco John
11-30-2004, 08:45 PM
I vote STAY!

suds79
11-30-2004, 08:47 PM
This is a travesty that there are actually 11 votes for him to stay.

That's like choosing hamburger over steak. :shake:

Logical
11-30-2004, 08:49 PM
Interesting somehow MichaelH managed to vote twice and have it register.

1punkyQB (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=447), 2bikemike (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1805), Adam (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1459), alanc (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=4441), ArrowheadHawk (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3058), b643246 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=4672), Bearcat2005 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2691), beavis (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2490), beer me (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3584), Big Chief Homer (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3664), BigChiefDave (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=115), BigChiefFan (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=493), BigRedChief (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3278), Bob_Dole (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=25), Brock Landers (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=190), bunnytrdr (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3084), Bwana (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=41), ChiTown (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=45), Coach (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3712), coryt (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=57), cron912 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=702), DaneMcCloud (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=252), Dartgod (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=126), Digital Takawira (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1203), gblowfish (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1520), go bo (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2285), htismaqe (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=18), IA_Chiefs_fan (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1498), jagchief (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=4331), JimNasium (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=458), KCFalcon59 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1712), KCMiker (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=582), KCN (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2920), kcnut (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=849), kcpriestfan (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3146), kcsportsguy (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3993), lazarus (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=450), LV Tim (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2155), memyselfI (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=769), Michael Michigan (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=91), MichaelH (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2070), MichaelH (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2070), mnchiefsguy (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=3264), NewChief (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=826), OmahaChief (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1526), Otter (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=316), PastorMikH (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2018), PHOG (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1118), Priest_Tony (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=2001), Rain Man (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=662), RedandGold (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=501), Saggysack (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=624), SaintMcManus (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=4118), suds79 (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=273), Sure-Oz (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1056), TEX (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=134), Tribal Warfare (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=1084), Vlad Logicslav (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/member.php?u=42)

BigRedChief
11-30-2004, 08:53 PM
Who voted for him to stay. Out the riff raff.

philfree
11-30-2004, 09:03 PM
Hey I voted stay! For one more year......If Carl goes then everyone else goes and that includes most of the roster. Offense and defense. I'm not ready for that yet. I wanna return with one of the leagues best offenses one more year and see if they can give Gun what he needs to make it right on D. We can start rebuilding the D and still have this offense for one more year.

PhilFree :arrow:

Chiefnj
11-30-2004, 09:03 PM
He can stay if he hires a new staff to control scouting and the draft. That would mean he stays merely to sign players and manage the books. The Chiefs have struck out on too many drafts in recent years to warrant keeping the staff the same.

philfree
11-30-2004, 09:07 PM
Interesting somehow MichaelH managed to vote twice and have it register.

What happened to the silent vote? There needs to be a disclaimer stating that how you vote can be seen by the moderators and later posted to be used agaisnt you. I'm not sure that's cool :hmmm:


PhilFree :arrow:

BigRedChief
11-30-2004, 09:13 PM
What happened to the silent vote? There needs to be a disclaimer stating that how you vote can be seen by the moderators and later posted to be used agaisnt you. I'm not sure that's cool :hmmm:


PhilFree :arrow:

There was a disclaimer at the top of this thread that its a public vote and can be seen by others.

philfree
11-30-2004, 09:16 PM
There was a disclaimer at the top of this thread that its a public vote and can be seen by others.

Where?

PhilFree :arrow:

Logical
11-30-2004, 10:53 PM
Where?

PhilFree :arrow:

Phil before you make your selection the disclaimer appears at the bottom of the poll when it is a public poll.

Logical
11-30-2004, 10:55 PM
Phil before you make your selection the disclaimer appears at the bottom of the poll when it is a public poll.

By the way anyone can see who voted on this poll just click on one of the two vote counts that are underlined.

philfree
11-30-2004, 11:00 PM
Phil before you make your selection the disclaimer appears at the bottom of the poll when it is a public poll.

It don't really matter but couldn't that mean that the results will be posted but not how each individual votes? But like I said it don't really matter....


PhilFree :arrow:

tk13
11-30-2004, 11:17 PM
This is a pretty vague question. Stay in what capacity? I don't know that "leave" is the right answer because I see no reason why he couldn't stay on as President... GM on the other hand could be a different story. In the end it's pointless to torture ourselves over this stuff anyway.

|Zach|
11-30-2004, 11:21 PM
It don't really matter but couldn't that mean that the results will be posted but not how each individual votes? But like I said it don't really matter....


PhilFree :arrow:
Any polls results are posted.

cdcox
11-30-2004, 11:39 PM
I voted for him to go in a regretful kind of way. I would have loved to see him sneer at his doubters with the trophy above his head, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that that day will never arrive. I will always be thankful to Carl and Marty for restoring respectability to KC football. But just as Marty's time came and went, I think we can safely say the same is true for Carl.

I'm willing to take my chances with someone new.

Rausch
12-01-2004, 12:16 AM
I voted for him to go in a regretful kind of way. I would have loved to see him sneer at his doubters with the trophy above his head, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that that day will never arrive. I will always be thankful to Carl and Marty for restoring respectability to KC football. But just as Marty's time came and went, I think we can safely say the same is true for Carl.

I'm willing to take my chances with someone new.

If my choices are between firing Carl and hiring....uh...um....that one guy.

I'll take carl...

cdcox
12-01-2004, 12:19 AM
If my choices are between firing Carl and hiring....uh...um....that one guy.

I'll take carl...

Do you honestly believe that you could do worse at the draft if you tried?

digi2fish
12-01-2004, 04:17 AM
reason?
I don't know
it was my human natural making the vote
ROFL

BigRedChief
12-01-2004, 06:36 AM
If my choices are between firing Carl and hiring....uh...um....that one guy.

I'll take carl...

one guy = Scott Pioli

Bring on Scott! Bring on Scott! Bring on Scott!

KCTitus
12-01-2004, 07:23 AM
one guy = Scott Pioli

Bring on Scott! Bring on Scott! Bring on Scott!

LOL...that has about as much chance of happening as KC signing Ty Law, Ray Lewis, Richard Seymour and Champ Bailey this offseason.

milkman
12-01-2004, 07:29 AM
Carl's gotta go, but with the Chargers in the playoff race, A.J Smith will be there for a while I imagine.

If there isn't a job in in SD for Carl after next season, it wouldn't surprise me to see Carl sign another extention when his current contract expires.

If he did, by some miracle, leave, if not Pioli, thne the guy that is an assistent to Floyd Reese in Tennesee, whose name escapes right now, would be someone to take a serious look at.

patteeu
12-01-2004, 07:38 AM
I'd be interested in hearing from those who voted he should stay when exactly they believe a change is due.

He should stay until he decides he's had enough, IMO. As far as I'm concerned, he's earned a lifetime appointment for the postive change he's made in the Chiefs organization. Right now I'm giving him a pass to some extent based on his teams' successes of the 90's, but even his most recent teams have been far better than anything we had around here in the 70's and 80's.

I don't like all the decisions CP makes (e.g. I preferred Jeff George and later Rich Gannon over Elvis Grbac), but I don't think Lamar is likely to find a Pres/GM who always makes decisions I like.

old_geezer
12-01-2004, 07:44 AM
I voted leave with the full realization that Carl and his buddies will be around for at least one more fling.

We've got one more year with the current team, then it's back to rebuilding. I'd just as soon do it with a completely new GM, coach, and scouting organization. Bottom line is the Super Bowl. We haven't won a playoff game in 12 years. It's time to try something else.

BigRedChief
12-01-2004, 01:23 PM
King Carl's complaint department.

Rausch
12-01-2004, 01:38 PM
LOL...that has about as much chance of happening as KC signing Ty Law, Ray Lewis, Richard Seymour and Champ Bailey this offseason.

Exactly. If I had to bet money I'd put it on Denny Thum or another current FO guy taking over GM duties if/when Peterson steps down.

Logical
12-01-2004, 03:02 PM
LOL...that has about as much chance of happening as KC signing Ty Law, Ray Lewis, Richard Seymour and Champ Bailey this offseason.

It is a perfectly valid point you are making and emphasizes how pathetic our franchise has become. Someone with megawatt capability would never consider a place like KC. We have joined the Arizona Cardinals and Cincinatti Bengals in the Franchise Ring of Shame.

Chiefnj
12-01-2004, 03:38 PM
It is a perfectly valid point you are making and emphasizes how pathetic our franchise has become. Someone with megawatt capability would never consider a place like KC. We have joined the Arizona Cardinals and Cincinatti Bengals in the Franchise Ring of Shame.


What do you think is the likelihood that a free agent receiving offers from only KC, Arizona and Cincy says to himself "Maybe my agent should give the Calgary Stampede a call." ?

Logical
12-01-2004, 03:39 PM
What do you think is the likelihood that a free agent receiving offers from only KC, Arizona and Cincy says to himself "Maybe my agent should give the Calgary Stampede a call." ?

Good point.

HC_Chief
12-01-2004, 03:46 PM
No playoff victory in over a decade. ZERO conference championships, ZERO Super Bowl appearances through tenure.

As a GM, he has been a failure.

As a president/CEO, quite successful. This will change however, with his "haven't done squat in over a decade? Raise ticket & parking prices!!" attitude. :4321:

Mr. Kotter
12-01-2004, 05:42 PM
Carl...

bricks
12-02-2004, 09:36 AM
Hey all chieflovers out there,

As much as I want him gone, Carl ain't going anywhere. I'll bet he stays. next year, I have a feeling Chiefs will rebound back and be competitive again. And what will happen, Lamar will reward Carl with a new contract. Increase the ticket prices, and send everybody home disappointed again. That seems to be the moto of this franchise for some strange reason. Keep us interested, increase ticket prices, and send the fans home disappointed. It's seems like Carl is the right fit for that bill. Here's my message to the fans, you want Carl gone, DONT GO TO THE GAMES! It's that simple. Get the message across to Lamar Hunt.

patteeu
12-02-2004, 10:23 AM
It is a perfectly valid point you are making and emphasizes how pathetic our franchise has become. Someone with megawatt capability would never consider a place like KC. We have joined the Arizona Cardinals and Cincinatti Bengals in the Franchise Ring of Shame.

:shake:

BigRedChief
12-02-2004, 06:40 PM
It is a perfectly valid point you are making and emphasizes how pathetic our franchise has become. Someone with megawatt capability would never consider a place like KC. We have joined the Arizona Cardinals and Cincinatti Bengals in the Franchise Ring of Shame.

WTF Vlad you really think we have become Arizona and Cincinati?

go bowe
12-02-2004, 06:57 PM
WTF Vlad you really think we have become Arizona and Cincinati?well, is our defense any better than theirs? :huh: :huh: :huh:

BigRedChief
12-02-2004, 09:16 PM
well, is our defense any better than theirs? :huh: :huh: :huh:

You too go bo? :sulk:

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 09:21 PM
WTF Vlad you really think we have become Arizona and Cincinati?I like the Cardinals draft picks in recent years better than I like the Chiefs draft picks.

philfree
12-02-2004, 09:51 PM
I like the Cardinals draft picks in recent years better than I like the Chiefs draft picks.

Yeah the Cards have a top 10 pick every year and they've done such a better job then Carl..............

PhilFree :arrow:

philfree
12-02-2004, 10:02 PM
It is a perfectly valid point you are making and emphasizes how pathetic our franchise has become.

Didn't look to pathetic last year. After 9 years of winning seasons a fall off was expected. Happens to all teams. Then we turned around and went 13-3 last year. So I guess all it takes to become pathetic is one truly bad season.


PhilFree :arrow:

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 10:10 PM
Yeah the Cards have a top 10 pick every year and they've done such a better job then Carl..............

PhilFree :arrow:You really are a homer aren't you? If you can't give another team credit for doing a better job in the draft, then just wear the blind homer label. Please name me all these impact players Carl has drafted in recent years. He's landed 3 starters in the past 3 years and none of them are exactly setting the world on fire. Yea-he's a stud at drafting.

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 10:13 PM
Didn't look to pathetic last year. After 9 years of winning seasons a fall off was expected. Happens to all teams. Then we turned around and went 13-3 last year. So I guess all it takes to become pathetic is one truly bad season.


PhilFree :arrow:
Where have you been? We've had one playoff apperance in SEVEN years!!!!

PastorMikH
12-02-2004, 10:17 PM
I'm ready for him to leave. I think that he has lost his drive to win games and is more comfortable with seeing success in the ledger rather than the trophy case.

Logical
12-02-2004, 10:17 PM
Didn't look to pathetic last year. After 9 years of winning seasons a fall off was expected. Happens to all teams. Then we turned around and went 13-3 last year. So I guess all it takes to become pathetic is one truly bad season.


PhilFree :arrow:

You are incorrect. Guns last year we were 7-9, DVs first year we were 6-10, DVs second year we were 8-8. In 1998 we were 7-9. We have not had 9 straight years of winning seasons since 1997. Last year was an abberation and we were not as good a team as our record. Actually our last 6 games and playoff game was a more accurate indication of the talent level of the team.

I liked the winning team but if it meant we would have not been idle in the offseason a 9-7 or 8-8 record would have been better for the team.

Wile_E_Coyote
12-02-2004, 10:18 PM
Carl Peterson stepping away(or dragged for that mater) from a draft as high & plentiful as this

philfree
12-02-2004, 11:17 PM
You are incorrect. Guns last year we were 7-9, DVs first year we were 6-10, DVs second year we were 8-8. In 1998 we were 7-9. We have not had 9 straight years of winning seasons since 1997. Last year was an abberation and we were not as good a team as our record. Actually our last 6 games and playoff game was a more accurate indication of the talent level of the team.

During Marty's tenure we didn't have a losing season till '98. That was what I was refering to. When 7-9 is your worst year in ten then you've been doing something right. In DVs first year we had to fix the cap and ditch some lazy fugs like DW and CM. So in a rebuilding year we went 6-10. Most teams in bad years don't do that well. We improved to 8-8 and then to 13-3. Now with a really tuff schedule we are having our worst season in 15 years. A truly bad year. It sucks major and it's worse because of the expectations. This will be the 2nd time in 15 years that we'll have a chance to draft in the top ten. As far as not being as good as our record last year goes IMO that's BS. This year the theme is you are as good as your record so we aren't a good team at 3-8. With that logic then at 13-3 we were a good team. Of course the double standard here is if the Chiefs go 3-13 they suck. If they go 13-3 they weren't really that good and they suck.


Where have you been? We've had one playoff apperance in SEVEN years!!!!

I agree with what you're saying but my point is that we just haven't had those 3 win seasons or back to back 5 win seasons....I think you can see my train of thought. And for the most part we don't stay down for long. Am I satisfied? NO. I don't think this franchise pathetic.

You really are a homer aren't you? If you can't give another team credit for doing a better job in the draft, then just wear the blind homer label. Please name me all these impact players Carl has drafted in recent years. He's landed 3 starters in the past 3 years and none of them are exactly setting the world on fire. Yea-he's a stud at drafting.

Not as much as you think. If the Cards did such a good job drafting then why do suck year in and year out? And they have had alot of picks toward the top of the draft. Go figure? Really a big reason why I appear to be a homer on the Planet is that when I read all the cry baby, know it all, hindsighted posts I just have to go against that grain. I jsut can't allow myself to behave that way. Also if we didn't have the great players we have on O I would probably say it's time for a change this year. But as it stands IMO the smart thing here is to stick with DV and Co. through next year.

PhilFree :arrow:

Rausch
12-03-2004, 12:00 AM
Peterson isn't going anywhere until after NEXT year, if then...

BigRedChief
12-03-2004, 07:30 AM
During Marty's tenure we didn't have a losing season till '98. That was what I was refering to. When 7-9 is your worst year in ten then you've been doing something right. In DVs first year we had to fix the cap and ditch some lazy fugs like DW and CM. So in a rebuilding year we went 6-10. Most teams in bad years don't do that well. We improved to 8-8 and then to 13-3. Now with a really tuff schedule we are having our worst season in 15 years. A truly bad year. It sucks major and it's worse because of the expectations. This will be the 2nd time in 15 years that we'll have a chance to draft in the top ten. As far as not being as good as our record last year goes IMO that's BS. This year the theme is you are as good as your record so we aren't a good team at 3-8. With that logic then at 13-3 we were a good team. Of course the double standard here is if the Chiefs go 3-13 they suck. If they go 13-3 they weren't really that good and they suck.




I agree with what you're saying but my point is that we just haven't had those 3 win seasons or back to back 5 win seasons....I think you can see my train of thought. And for the most part we don't stay down for long. Am I satisfied? NO. I don't think this franchise pathetic.



Not as much as you think. If the Cards did such a good job drafting then why do suck year in and year out? And they have had alot of picks toward the top of the draft. Go figure? Really a big reason why I appear to be a homer on the Planet is that when I read all the cry baby, know it all, hindsighted posts I just have to go against that grain. I jsut can't allow myself to behave that way. Also if we didn't have the great players we have on O I would probably say it's time for a change this year. But as it stands IMO the smart thing here is to stick with DV and Co. through next year.

PhilFree :arrow:

WTF are you Gretz or Dawes? You work for King Carl?

the Talking Can
12-03-2004, 07:36 AM
we haven't won a playoff game in 12 years....we are the Bengals/Cardinals

greg63
12-03-2004, 07:44 AM
King Carl must go!!!!!! He's sixteen years into his five year plan to get to the Super Bowl. I think he's got Lamar Hunt pretty much snowed, I mean face it the old man has obviously lost his grip on reality.

greg63
12-03-2004, 07:49 AM
I have to finally admit that I was no where near reality last year when I thought the Defensive woe's where due solely to the DC. Now that we have the right DC we have to get some Defensive personnel that donít suck! And KING CARL has to wake up and smell the coffee.

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 08:24 AM
I like the Cardinals draft picks in recent years better than I like the Chiefs draft picks.

That is an absolute JOKE. Call me a homer all you want, at least I'm not so sour on the team that I don't mind making wild statements that make me look like an idiot.

If the Cardinals hadn't have gotten absolutely lucky with Boldin, the 2003 draft would have been one of the worst in NFL history. They had TWO first-round picks and took Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson, for chrissakes...

Look at their drafts over the last 4 years. They drafted Darnell Dockett and Karlos Dansby this season, because Wendell Bryant and Levar Fisher are busts. They drafted Larry Fitzgerald because Johnson is a bust and David Boston was a headcase. Michael Stone? Bust. Kyle Van Den Bosch? Bust. Raynoch Thompson? Bust. Thomas Jones? Bust.

We're not talking about guys taken in the 3rd round. We're talking about top-10 overall picks. We're talking about high 2nd-rounders.

Do I think the Chiefs' drafts have been bad? Absolutely. But being enamored with the drafts of a team like the Cardinals is the height of absurdity.

greg63
12-03-2004, 08:25 AM
True.........yes he should stay :p

Chiefs need to let him go and the Raider organization should pick him up

KCTitus
12-03-2004, 08:26 AM
...at least I'm not so sour on the team that I don't mind making wild statements that make me look like an idiot.

LOL...it's BCF's claim to fame lately.

BigChiefFan
12-03-2004, 08:33 AM
That is an absolute JOKE. Call me a homer all you want, at least I'm not so sour on the team that I don't mind making wild statements that make me look like an idiot.

If the Cardinals hadn't have gotten absolutely lucky with Boldin, the 2003 draft would have been one of the worst in NFL history. They had TWO first-round picks and took Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson, for chrissakes...

Look at their drafts over the last 4 years. They drafted Darnell Dockett and Karlos Dansby this season, because Wendell Bryant and Levar Fisher are busts. They drafted Larry Fitzgerald because Johnson is a bust and David Boston was a headcase. Michael Stone? Bust. Kyle Van Den Bosch? Bust. Raynoch Thompson? Bust. Thomas Jones? Bust.

We're not talking about guys taken in the 3rd round. We're talking about top-10 overall picks. We're talking about high 2nd-rounders.

Do I think the Chiefs' drafts have been bad? Absolutely. But being enamored with the drafts of a team like the Cardinals is the height of absurdity.
Not that I owe you an explanation, but I'd much rather have Boldin and Fitzgerald to anybody we have drafted in the past few years, sorry you can't deal with it.

BigChiefFan
12-03-2004, 08:33 AM
LOL...it's BCF's claim to fame lately.
I'm becoming infamous. Yippee.

Rausch
12-03-2004, 08:35 AM
That is an absolute JOKE. Call me a homer all you want, at least I'm not so sour on the team that I don't mind making wild statements that make me look like an idiot.

If the Cardinals hadn't have gotten absolutely lucky with Boldin, the 2003 draft would have been one of the worst in NFL history. They had TWO first-round picks and took Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson, for chrissakes...

Look at their drafts over the last 4 years. They drafted Darnell Dockett and Karlos Dansby this season, because Wendell Bryant and Levar Fisher are busts. They drafted Larry Fitzgerald because Johnson is a bust and David Boston was a headcase. Michael Stone? Bust. Kyle Van Den Bosch? Bust. Raynoch Thompson? Bust. Thomas Jones? Bust.

We're not talking about guys taken in the 3rd round. We're talking about top-10 overall picks. We're talking about high 2nd-rounders.

Do I think the Chiefs' drafts have been bad? Absolutely. But being enamored with the drafts of a team like the Cardinals is the height of absurdity.

You forgot about when they took 3 straight defensive lineman with 3 straight 1st round picks, and none played more than about 3 or 4 years for them...

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 08:35 AM
Not that I owe you an explanation, but I'd much rather have Boldin and Fitzgerald to anybody we have drafted in the past few years, sorry you can't deal with it.

I never said you owed my an explanation. You're acting like an hysteria-crazed moron over the last few weeks. It requires no explanation.

So you're basing it all on 2 players?

I'm glad you're not in charge of the Chiefs...we'd never win another game.

BigChiefFan
12-03-2004, 08:43 AM
I never said you owed my an explanation. You're acting like an hysteria-crazed moron over the last few weeks. It requires no explanation.

So you're basing it all on 2 players?

I'm glad you're not in charge of the Chiefs...we'd never win another game. Yea, I'm upset with Queen Carla and you act like the Chiefs have done so great in the draft. They haven't. We have alot of question marks with our draft picks or are now going to tell me all the great picks we've had in recent drafts?

Mr. Kotter
12-03-2004, 08:55 AM
It is a perfectly valid point you are making and emphasizes how pathetic our franchise has become. Someone with megawatt capability would never consider a place like KC. We have joined the Arizona Cardinals and Cincinatti Bengals in the Franchise Ring of Shame.

Jim, I love ya man, but.... :rolleyes:

The Cards and Bengals??? :shake:

BigChiefFan
12-03-2004, 09:02 AM
I never said you owed my an explanation. You're acting like an hysteria-crazed moron over the last few weeks. It requires no explanation.

So you're basing it all on 2 players?

I'm glad you're not in charge of the Chiefs...we'd never win another game.
After all we are winning so many games recently, right?

Logical
12-03-2004, 09:04 AM
You forgot about when they took 3 straight defensive lineman with 3 straight 1st round picks, and none played more than about 3 or 4 years for them...And how is that significantly different than the Chiefs taking Riley, Tait, and Trezelle Jenkins and not having any of them play more than 3 or 4 years?

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 09:07 AM
Yea, I'm upset with Queen Carla and you act like the Chiefs have done so great in the draft. They haven't. We have alot of question marks with our draft picks or are now going to tell me all the great picks we've had in recent drafts?

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Calm down, slow down, take a deep breath, and THINK ABOUT IT.

I've never ONCE said that Chiefs have done great in the draft. I've said repeatedly over the last few weeks that we need a new GM, a new head coach, and a massive influx of talent.

I'm NOT disagreeing with you in the slightest. I'm suggesting that the way you are acting -- essentially screaming at the top of your lungs that Carl needs to go on every thread, regardless of the topic -- detracts from your argument.

patteeu
12-03-2004, 09:10 AM
we haven't won a playoff game in 12 years....we are the Bengals/Cardinals

Until we get a top 10 draft pick 3 or 4 years in a row, this comparison must be seen as more of a temper tantrum than a rational statement.

BigChiefFan
12-03-2004, 09:12 AM
That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Calm down, slow down, take a deep breath, and THINK ABOUT IT.

I've never ONCE said that Chiefs have done great in the draft. I've said repeatedly over the last few weeks that we need a new GM, a new head coach, and a massive influx of talent.

I'm NOT disagreeing with you in the slightest. I'm suggesting that the way you are acting -- essentially screaming at the top of your lungs that Carl needs to go on every thread, regardless of the topic -- detracts from your argument.
Your probably right. I think I've finally gotten it out my system. I admit I have been beating the bash Carl drum rather loud lately and probably need to chill. Thanks for not blowing me off during my bash Carl hissy-fit.

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 09:15 AM
Your probably right. I think I've finally gotten it out my system. I admit I have been beating the bash Carl drum rather loud lately and probably need to chill. Thanks for not blowing me off during my bash Carl hissy-fit.

I didn't blow you off because I think your concerns are legitimate. I just am more of an even-keel person.

I've had the same arguments with Logical. He and I were two of a handful of people this last offseason who said this team needed serious talent upgrades and we both thought hiring Gunther was a very bad idea. In essence, we agree, and I've never taken exception with the premise of his argument.

However, I've repeatedly found myself arguing with him because I don't agree with his approach...

Logical
12-03-2004, 09:17 AM
I didn't blow you off because I think your concerns are legitimate. I just am more of an even-keel person.

I've had the same arguments with Logical. He and I were two of a handful of people this last offseason who said this team needed serious talent upgrades and we both thought hiring Gunther was a very bad idea. In essence, we agree, and I've never taken exception with the premise of his argument.

However, I've repeatedly found myself arguing with him because I don't agree with his approach...

You just are not the post whore that some of us are.:D

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 09:34 AM
You just are not the post whore that some of us are.:D

o:-)

greg63
12-03-2004, 12:12 PM
Hereís the Head coaching problem with the Chiefs as I see it. They need a Head coach that pays attention to both sides of the ball. When Marty was coaching we had a great Defensive line and a mediocre offensive line, as a result - no super bowl. With Vermeil we have a great offensive line and a mediocre defensive backfield, the result is the same. New England is SB Champs because they have a head coach that pays attention to both sides of the ball. The year Vermeil won the SB with the Rams - he did so with his offense, not his defense.

philfree
12-03-2004, 12:33 PM
WTF are you Gretz or Dawes? You work for King Carl?

No I'm PhilFree. After my long post(long for me) that's your response? You obviously are suffering from a lack of reading comprehension or maybe you just lack the ability to reason.

PhilFree :arrow:

go bowe
12-03-2004, 12:39 PM
Hereís the Head coaching problem with the Chiefs as I see it. They need a Head coach that pays attention to both sides of the ball. When Marty was coaching we had a great Defensive line and a mediocre offensive line, as a result - no super bowl. With Vermeil we have a great offensive line and a mediocre defensive backfield, the result is the same. New England is SB Champs because they have a head coach that pays attention to both sides of the ball. The year Vermeil won the SB with the Rams - he did so with his offense, not his defense.isn't that what he's been trying to do here?

all the real money has gone into a galaxy of stars on the offense, including the o-line...

there just isn't enough money under the salary cap for teams to have lots of stars on both sides of the ball...

but, considering that the games we have lost have been relatively close, we might not need as much help on d as many seem to believe...

with improved secondary and lb play, gunther's schemes may generate enough pass rush that we don't have to invest in a big name (expensive) player for the d-line...

allen should be better and siavii should be lots better with the extra coaching...

then we could try for a lb or two and a cb in fa and/or the draft...

Wile_E_Coyote
12-03-2004, 12:58 PM
http://www.chargertom.com/gannondown3.jpg

~oops wrong thread

philfree
12-03-2004, 01:03 PM
isn't that what he's been trying to do here?

all the real money has gone into a galaxy of stars on the offense, including the o-line...

there just isn't enough money under the salary cap for teams to have lots of stars on both sides of the ball...

but, considering that the games we have lost have been relatively close, we might not need as much help on d as many seem to believe...

with improved secondary and lb play, gunther's schemes may generate enough pass rush that we don't have to invest in a big name (expensive) player for the d-line...

allen should be better and siavii should be lots better with the extra coaching...

then we could try for a lb or two and a cb in fa and/or the draft...

I agree with alot of this but but I really don't think the intent was to put all our cap dollars on one side of the ball. When Green came in he didn't have a huge contract. Same for Holmes and Roaf. Shields was a FA a few years back and if we were gonna keep him it was gonna cost. Same for Gonzo. The difference between the O and D IMO is that we've tried to build our D throught the draft with exception of 3 middle of the road FAs we signed in 2003 and Dalton this year.. When building by the draft if takes longer to get it going because the young guys have to get experience and learn. To go along with that the draft is a crap shoot anyway. For all teams. If any of the players on our D would earn it they would get the money. But they haven't. Of just as they start to improve they backslide.

I do like Gunthers scheme and with an improved secondary and one stud LB this D should get much better. FWIW in the last 9 games we've held the other teams to less then 100 yards per game. 99.7 per I think. Gun said we would stop the run and it's coming to bare. Things like that are why I'm still on board with DV and CO.

PhilFree :arrow:

BigRedChief
12-03-2004, 01:29 PM
No I'm PhilFree. After my long post(long for me) that's your response? You obviously are suffering from a lack of reading comprehension or maybe you just lack the ability to reason.

PhilFree :arrow:

Its an opinion. I don't have to have the ability to reason to spout an opinion. I was dropped on my head as a baby. I did volumes of drugs in the past.:p Chit happens. Its a BB, don't take chit personal. We are all Chief fans. We all want the same thing. Se disagree on the proper course to get there. So what? Myself and you have no say in the matter anyway.

But that doesnt effect King Carls job performance does it? I can't see any facts or reason for an informed Chief fan to develop an opinion that King Carl has done a good job in evaluating football talent. Where are the facts to support that opinion?

philfree
12-03-2004, 01:42 PM
But that doesnt effect King Carls job performance does it? I can't see any facts or reason for an informed Chief fan to develop an opinion that King Carl has done a good job in evaluating football talent. Where are the facts to support that opinion?


I never said that Carl was Aces when it comes to evaluating talent. Every year though I sit and watch the draft and then listen to what teams did such a good job. Then the season rolls around and those teams don't get it done. Of course the consensus is the Chiefs draft sucked but somehow we've only had 3 losing seasons in 15 years.

PhilFree :arrow:

Logical
12-03-2004, 01:59 PM
... When building by the draft if takes longer to get it going because the young guys have to get experience and learn. To go along with that the draft is a crap shoot anyway. ...
PhilFree :arrow:


It will never happen when you have a shitty scouting department. Especially when you have CP to screw-up the draft because he wants to take nothing but project player so if one of them ever pans out he can claim he was a genius. CP needs to get a good scouting staff and starting drafting player that actually project out by the majority of organizations as NFL level talent.

BigRedChief
12-03-2004, 02:00 PM
Of course the consensus is the Chiefs draft sucked but somehow we've only had 3 losing seasons in 15 years.

PhilFree :arrow:

HUH? you want to use field performance as a measuring stick on King Carls job performance.

Losing* 6 out of the last 7 seasons with 3 different coaches.

2 playoff wins in 16 years

Losing= Not winning or tied

philfree
12-03-2004, 02:12 PM
Losing= Not winning or tied

I guess we should change the definition of words to make our point.

We've had three losing seasons and one .500 season beginning in '98.


PhilFree :arrow:

BigRedChief
12-03-2004, 02:15 PM
16 years of drafting and not one, not one single frigging impact WR, RB or QB has been drafted by King Carl.

Pure luck gets you better odds than that. He's trying to prove hes smarter than everyone else and he's not smarter than all the other GM's.

KCTitus
12-03-2004, 02:20 PM
Joe Horn doesnt count?

philfree
12-03-2004, 03:18 PM
16 years of drafting and not one, not one single frigging impact WR, RB or QB has been drafted by King Carl.

So that means we should give up one of the best offense in the league? I'm not really trying to defend Carl. What I'm saying is that if he goes we start from scratch. On offense and defense. Since we have one of the best Os in the league I think we should stick with it for one more year and see if we can't get the D to come around. If it doesn't then as DV retires it will be the perfect time to make a change at the top. Until then all the crying about Carl is a waste.

PhilFree :arrow:

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 03:43 PM
The year Vermeil won the SB with the Rams - he did so with his offense, not his defense.

Complete and utter bullshit.


Team Offense
|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL
CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD
343 530 4580 8.64 42 15 431 2059 4.78 13 6639
NFL rank ---> 5 19 1 1 1 7 15 5 2 11 1

Team Defense
|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL
CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD
319 596 3867 6.49 19 29 338 1189 3.52 4 5056
NFL rank ---> 20 29 24 7 9 2 1 1 6 1 7

Wile_E_Coyote
12-03-2004, 03:55 PM
Joe Horn doesnt count?
One day on his show, Grunny said of all the cancers that he has played with, Joe Horn was the worst. Grunny would now about locker room cancers. Horn is a good WR though

greg63
12-03-2004, 10:48 PM
isn't that what he's been trying to do here?

all the real money has gone into a galaxy of stars on the offense, including the o-line...

there just isn't enough money under the salary cap for teams to have lots of stars on both sides of the ball...

but, considering that the games we have lost have been relatively close, we might not need as much help on d as many seem to believe...

with improved secondary and lb play, gunther's schemes may generate enough pass rush that we don't have to invest in a big name (expensive) player for the d-line...

allen should be better and siavii should be lots better with the extra coaching...

then we could try for a lb or two and a cb in fa and/or the draft...

I agree, that is more than likely what Vermeil is attempting here in KC because that is his M. O. I think the difference between now and his SB championship with the Rams is that much like last year they had somewhat a light schedule, they were, for the most part, healthy and they were simply able to outscore their opposition, who where more often then not beat up. This simply wasn't the case for the Chiefs last year in the play-offs. But you make a good point, one I don't mind conceding because I think you guys are probably a bit more knowledgeable than I am about these matters.
Thanks for the insight.

philfree
12-03-2004, 10:59 PM
I agree, that is more than likely what Vermeil is attempting here in KC because that is his M. O.

IMO DV thought our D was alot better when he took the job. Then he ditched Chester and Dan.

I posted this earlier.

I agree with alot of this but but I really don't think the intent was to put all our cap dollars on one side of the ball. When Green came in he didn't have a huge contract. Same for Holmes and Roaf. Shields was a FA a few years back and if we were gonna keep him it was gonna cost. Same for Gonzo.

Which one of those guys should we not of re-signed?

PhilFree :arrow:

BigChiefFan
12-03-2004, 10:59 PM
86%-that's an overwhelming amount of disapproval.

greg63
12-03-2004, 10:59 PM
I agree with alot of this but but I really don't think the intent was to put all our cap dollars on one side of the ball. When Green came in he didn't have a huge contract. Same for Homes and Roaf. Shields was a FA a few years back and if we were gonna keep him it was gonna cost. Same for Gonzo. The difference between the O and D IMO is that we've tried to build our D throught the draft with exception of 3 middle of the road FAs we signed in 2003 and Dalton this year.. When building by the draft if takes longer to get it going because the young guys have to get experience and learn. To go along with that the draft is a crap shoot anyway. For all teams. If any of the players on our D would earn it they would get the money. But they haven't. Of just as they start to improve they backslide.

I do like Gunthers scheme and with an improved secondary and one stud LB this D should get much better. FWIW in the last 9 games we've held the other teams to less then 100 yards per game. 99.7 per I think. Gun said we would stop the run and it's coming to bare. Things like that are why I'm still on board with DV and CO.

PhilFree :arrow:

Ditto, didn't mean to sound as if I was calling for Vermeil's resignation, and I too like Gun's D schemes. I guess I just wish as much attention was given to the defensive side of the ball as the offensive. I understand that there are salary cap issues, but somewhere we need to find more of a balance, instead of the scales always tipping to one side or the other. I think that our d-line is solid and getting better. It is the secondary that concerns me. However, you make a good point, thanks for the insight.

BigRedChief
12-03-2004, 11:19 PM
IMO DV thought our D was alot better when he took the job. Then he ditched Chester and Dan.

I posted this earlier.



Which one of those guys should we not of re-signed?

PhilFree :arrow:

He really screwed up this last off season. In any other town this would have been a lose your job year.

The vast majority of the Planet didn't want Bartee and Hicks resigned. Why resign bartee who has never done anything for you? Why give a one year wonder a long term deal?

philfree
12-03-2004, 11:42 PM
He really screwed up this last off season. In any other town this would have been a lose your job year.

The vast majority of the Planet didn't want Bartee and Hicks resigned. Why resign bartee who has never done anything for you? Why give a one year wonder a long term deal?

I don't think any of the guys we re-signed got a deal that was nothing more then cap freindly. Hicks also shined under Gun so that might have been involved in that thinking. I also think (and it's just my rusty cogs) that perhaps part of the stand pat plan was to re-sign our guys economically and give them a chance under Gun and at the same time give a Gun a chance to see what this D really needs for him to make it work.

PhilFree :arrow:

patteeu
12-04-2004, 09:00 AM
I think philfree's vote should carry extra weight in the poll because his posts make the most sense in this thread. Good job philfree.

Logical
12-04-2004, 12:36 PM
I think philfree's vote should carry extra weight in the poll because his posts make the most sense in this thread. Good job philfree.

Sucking up to Phil? LOL

patteeu
12-04-2004, 01:03 PM
Sucking up to Phil? LOL

Call it whatever you want.

BigChiefFan
12-04-2004, 01:20 PM
I don't think any of the guys we re-signed got a deal that was nothing more then cap freindly. Hicks also shined under Gun so that might have been involved in that thinking. I also think (and it's just my rusty cogs) that perhaps part of the stand pat plan was to re-sign our guys economically and give them a chance under Gun and at the same time give a Gun a chance to see what this D really needs for him to make it work.

PhilFree :arrow:
That would make sense if we hadn't signed them all long term. However we did so...I think that negates that theory.

Rausch
12-04-2004, 01:23 PM
That would make sense if we hadn't signed them all long term. However we did so...I think that negates that theory.

Yes, but a great deal of those contracts can be terminated with little cap hit...

BigChiefFan
12-04-2004, 01:27 PM
Yes, but a great deal of those contracts can be terminated with little cap hit...
Some of them can, but not all(like you said). Woods would be a fairly signifigant cap hit and I just don't recall the others contracts. I just remember them being fairly lengthy contracts.

philfree
12-04-2004, 03:50 PM
I just remember them being fairly lengthy contracts.


It's not the length of the contract it's the amount of signing bonus that will become retroactive and count against the cap when the player is cut. If he's cut after June 1st then it gets spread over two years.

PhilFree :arrow:

Straight, No Chaser
12-04-2004, 09:40 PM
I agree with a lot of this but but I really don't think the intent was to put all our cap dollars on one side of the ball. When Green came in he didn't have a huge contract. Same for Holmes and Roaf. Shields was a FA a few years back and if we were gonna keep him it was gonna cost. Same for Gonzo. The difference between the O and D IMO is that we've tried to build our D throughout the draft with exception of 3 middle of the road FAs we signed in 2003 and Dalton this year.. When building by the draft if takes longer to get it going because the young guys have to get experience and learn. To go along with that the draft is a crap shoot anyway. For all teams. If any of the players on our D would earn it they would get the money. But they haven't. Of just as they start to improve they backslide.

I do like Gunthers scheme and with an improved secondary and one stud LB this D should get much better. FWIW in the last 9 games we've held the other teams to less then 100 yards per game. 99.7 per I think. Gun said we would stop the run and it's coming to bare. Things like that are why I'm still on board with DV and CO.

PhilFree :arrow:

Finally, after reading a hour's worth of Carl is the Devil I find a post that finds a silver lining :thumb:

A poll like this is analogous to polling the American public on whether we should go to war a day after Pearl Harbor. Same poll 365 days ago and you'd have to flip the percentages. Fickle Planet.



---->

Logical
12-04-2004, 09:42 PM
Finally, after reading a hour's worth of Carl is the Devil I find a post that finds a silver lining :thumb:

A poll like this is analagous to polling the American public on wheteher we should go to war a day after Pearl Harbor. Same poll 365 days ago and you'd have to flip the percentages. Fickle Planet.



---->I doubt if you are correct. I would say this poll last year would have been 55% to have Carl leave. He is well and long hated on this BB, I should know back in 2000 I was one of the Carl defenders.

Deberg_1990
12-04-2004, 09:43 PM
I doubt if you are correct. I would say this poll last year would have been 55% to have Carl leave. He is well and long hated on this BB, I should know back in 2000 I was one of the Carl defenders.

so what changed your opinion of Carl then? Just curious??

BigChiefFan
12-04-2004, 09:45 PM
It's not the length of the contract it's the amount of signing bonus that will become retroactive and count against the cap when the player is cut. If he's cut after June 1st then it gets spread over two years.

PhilFree :arrow:I know. Like I said I just don't remember the details of the contracts including the bonuses.

FloridaChief
12-04-2004, 09:49 PM
Carl Peterson is The Beast. Or at least the next-door neighbor of The Beast.

Straight, No Chaser
12-04-2004, 09:49 PM
I doubt if you are correct. I would say this poll last year would have been 55% to have Carl leave. He is well and long hated on this BB, I should know back in 2000 I was one of the Carl defenders.

Ya know...
I don't really feel like making an issue out of it. Since you'd have a hard time reversing the Earth's orbit 365 times we'll never really know will we?

Just a small nudge, so sorry.



---->

PastorMikH
12-04-2004, 09:52 PM
so what changed your opinion of Carl then? Just curious??



I was estatic to hear we were getting DV. What has turned my mind to thinking it is time to leave has to do with several things. First, his loyalties, I feel, have hurt the team from time to time. Also, his lack of desire to fix the problems on D. I do not have any proof, but my gut tells me that Carl is the one that arranged the change at DC. However, we keep the same players and the only change we make at all on D outside of the draft is Dalton. And, I don't think DV is getting the team we have now ready to go on game day. Basically, I've lost confidence in him as our HC.

Logical
12-04-2004, 09:59 PM
so what changed your opinion of Carl then? Just curious??

The failure pattern of the 90s repeating itself by him not forcing Greg Robinson out before 2003 then doing nothing in the offseason this year.

Logical
12-04-2004, 10:01 PM
I was estatic to hear we were getting DV. What has turned my mind to thinking it is time to leave has to do with several things. First, his loyalties, I feel, have hurt the team from time to time. Also, his lack of desire to fix the problems on D. I do not have any proof, but my gut tells me that Carl is the one that arranged the change at DC. However, we keep the same players and the only change we make at all on D outside of the draft is Dalton. And, I don't think DV is getting the team we have now ready to go on game day. Basically, I've lost confidence in him as our HC.

I must admit I am beginning to reach this conclusion as well. Getting rid of Carl fixes both problems because if Carl goes DV is gone.

PastorMikH
12-04-2004, 10:04 PM
I must admit I am beginning to reach this conclusion as well. Getting rid of Carl fixes both problems because if Carl goes DV is gone.



I agree on Carl. Carl stays and we have more of the same, just different names. Even IF Carl brought in a new coach, which he won't unless DV quits, he's not going to replace everyone that needs to be replaced. He'll look for a coach that will accept a lot of the present staff. Which means no real change at all.

RedandGold
12-04-2004, 10:06 PM
I believe that Carl pushed for the Gunther signing, but I also believe that Gunther was the reason why retained the players that we did.

I seriously doubt that any other DC would have pushed for retaining Bartee, Hicks, and Woods after their lack of performance over the three previous years.

With this being said, we don't know how all of those contracts were structured, so they might be basically one-year deals to give Gunther enough time to see whether or not his former players were still able to perform in his system.

Regardless of who's GM after this season, I have a feeling that there's going to be some serious house cleaning on the defensive side of the ball.

BigChiefFan
12-04-2004, 10:08 PM
I agree on Carl. Carl stays and we have more of the same, just different names. Even IF Carl brought in a new coach, which he won't unless DV quits, he's not going to replace everyone that needs to be replaced. He'll look for a coach that will accept a lot of the present staff. Which means no real change at all.
That is what was so frustrating this past offseason. We keep the same personel with the exception of Pagac and we only went after him because Joe Vitt went to the Rams. That was putting a band-aid on the problem and the only reason I believe they did that was because the others were already under contract. Add to that the off-season plan of doing very little and we had a recipe for disaster.

BigChiefFan
12-04-2004, 10:10 PM
I believe that Carl pushed for the Gunther signing, but I also believe that Gunther was the reason why retained the players that we did.

I seriously doubt that any other DC would have pushed for retaining Bartee, Hicks, and Woods after their lack of performance over the three previous years.

With this being said, we don't know how all of those contracts were structured, so they might be basically one-year deals to give Gunther enough time to see whether or not his former players were still able to perform in his system.

Regardless of who's GM after this season, I have a feeling that there's going to be some serious house cleaning on the defensive side of the ball.There better be, however, I think it will be more of the same and that's why I have very little hope with CP at the helm.

greg63
12-08-2004, 09:28 PM
Complete and utter bullshit.


Team Offense
|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL
CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD
343 530 4580 8.64 42 15 431 2059 4.78 13 6639
NFL rank ---> 5 19 1 1 1 7 15 5 2 11 1

Team Defense
|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL
CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD
319 596 3867 6.49 19 29 338 1189 3.52 4 5056
NFL rank ---> 20 29 24 7 9 2 1 1 6 1 7


Where did ya get the stats?

Rausch
12-08-2004, 09:41 PM
The failure pattern of the 90s repeating itself by him not forcing Greg Robinson out before 2003 then doing nothing in the offseason this year.

Elway failed for 16 years before winning...

philfree
12-08-2004, 09:52 PM
I've posted it before be I'm gonna post it again. If Carl goes then so does DV and the offense. DV has one year left and we still have one of the best Os in the league so IMO we need give this crew one more year to fix the D. That's our best chance at a Championship. I think Lamar indicated that Carl ain't going no where anyways so.......


PhilFree :arrow: