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View Full Version : What do you pro-abortioners think of this?


SBK
11-30-2004, 03:25 PM
Obviously pro-lifers are going to be very against this, what do you pro-choicers think of of this?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041130/D86MD4DG1.html

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures, which include administering a lethal dose of sedatives. The announcement by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates. In August, the main Dutch doctors' association KNMG urged the Health Ministry to create an independent board to review euthanasia cases for terminally ill people "with no free will," including children, the severely mentally retarded and people left in an irreversible coma after an accident. The Health Ministry is preparing its response, which could come as soon as December, a spokesman said. Three years ago, the Dutch parliament made it legal for doctors to inject a sedative and a lethal dose of muscle relaxant at the request of adult patients suffering great pain with no hope of relief. The Groningen Protocol, as the hospital's guidelines have come to be known, would create a legal framework for permitting doctors to actively end the life of newborns deemed to be in similar pain from incurable disease or extreme deformities. The guideline says euthanasia is acceptable when the child's medical team and independent doctors agree the pain cannot be eased and there is no prospect for improvement, and when parents think it's best. Examples include extremely premature births, where children suffer brain damage from bleeding and convulsions; and diseases where a child could only survive on life support for the rest of its life, such as severe cases of spina bifida and epidermosis bullosa, a rare blistering illness. The hospital revealed last month it carried out four such mercy killings in 2003, and reported all cases to government prosecutors. There have been no legal proceedings against the hospital or the doctors. Roman Catholic organizations and the Vatican have reacted with outrage to the announcement, and U.S. euthanasia opponents contend the proposal shows the Dutch have lost their moral compass. "The slippery slope in the Netherlands has descended already into a vertical cliff," said Wesley J. Smith, a prominent California-based critic, in an e-mail to The Associated Press. Child euthanasia remains illegal everywhere. Experts say doctors outside Holland do not report cases for fear of prosecution. "As things are, people are doing this secretly and that's wrong," said Eduard Verhagen, head of Groningen's children's clinic. "In the Netherlands we want to expose everything, to let everything be subjected to vetting." According to the Justice Ministry, four cases of child euthanasia were reported to prosecutors in 2003. Two were reported in 2002, seven in 2001 and five in 2000. All the cases in 2003 were reported by Groningen, but some of the cases in other years were from other hospitals. Groningen estimated the protocol would be applicable in about 10 cases per year in the Netherlands, a country of 16 million people. Since the introduction of the Dutch law, Belgium has also legalized euthanasia, while in France, legislation to allow doctor-assisted suicide is currently under debate. In the United States, the state of Oregon is alone in allowing physician-assisted suicide, but this is under constant legal challenge. However, experts acknowledge that doctors euthanize routinely in the United States and elsewhere, but that the practice is hidden. "Measures that might marginally extend a child's life by minutes or hours or days or weeks are stopped. This happens routinely, namely, every day," said Lance Stell, professor of medical ethics at Davidson College in Davidson, N.C., and staff ethicist at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte, N.C. "Everybody knows that it happens, but there's a lot of hypocrisy. Instead, people talk about things they're not going to do." More than half of all deaths occur under medical supervision, so it's really about management and method of death, Stell said.

Duck Dog
11-30-2004, 03:36 PM
I'm not sure what to make of the story. But one things fo' sho'; I've gotta get my ass to Amsterdam one day.

And not for the 'two for one' euthanasia deals either.

Bwana
11-30-2004, 06:50 PM
I'm not sure what to make of the story. But one things fo' sho'; I've gotta get my ass to Amsterdam one day.

And not for the 'two for one' euthanasia deals either.

Yes you do. I went there one spring break in college and had a good time. :thumb:

Frankie
11-30-2004, 07:14 PM
What do you pro-abortioners think of this?

Not to change the subject or be picky. But I don't think there really is any "pro-abortioner." That implies abortion at any stage and for no good reason. There are many who are pro-choice. And that, even, entails many parameters.

Taco John
11-30-2004, 08:18 PM
Pro-abortioner?

What a moron. I've met piles of dog crap with more brains than you.

Jenson71
11-30-2004, 08:36 PM
I really think they need to use the 'enter' key more.

Jenson71
11-30-2004, 08:38 PM
Pro-abortioner?

What a moron. I've met piles of dog crap with more brains than you.

And you also had "intelligent conversations" with them, too.

nychief
11-30-2004, 10:30 PM
KILL BABIES!!! HOORAY!!!!


sigh.

snooring sound.

SBK
11-30-2004, 10:58 PM
Pro-abortioner?

What a moron. I've met piles of dog crap with more brains than you.

When you met them did they introduce themselves, or did you have to introduce yourself to the pile of dog crap?

Also, where is a pile of dog craps brain?

SBK
11-30-2004, 10:58 PM
Seriously, what do all the pro choice types think of basically abortion out of the womb? Yet to get any replies here cept for Taco and his introducing himself to dog crap stories.

jAZ
11-30-2004, 11:49 PM
This issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with abortion (pro-life or pro-choise), but that fact aside...

If we have enough morality and dignity to put suffering animals out of their misery, I never understood how anyone could object to freeing someone of similar misery through euthanasia.

I'm not excited about it, but I'm less excited about forcing a life of pain and misery on a terminally ill patient of any age.

Phobia
12-01-2004, 01:19 AM
If we have enough morality and dignity to put suffering animals out of their misery,


Give PETA a couple decades, that will be a felony before my grandchildren are born.

MonroeChief
12-01-2004, 01:29 AM
Pro-abortioner?

What a moron. I've met piles of dog crap with more brains than you.


You are a pile of dog crap, so it goes without saying that you know more piles of dog crap than the average CP member.

MonroeChief
12-01-2004, 01:31 AM
This issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with abortion (pro-life or pro-choise), but that fact aside...

If we have enough morality and dignity to put suffering animals out of their misery, I never understood how anyone could object to freeing someone of similar misery through euthanasia.

I'm not excited about it, but I'm less excited about forcing a life of pain and misery on a terminally ill patient of any age.

So you are saying that if your parents would have put you down when you were born we wouldn't have had to suffer through your rants and raves during the election......there is some food for thought.

jAZ
12-01-2004, 07:52 AM
So you are saying that if your parents would have put you down when you were born we wouldn't have had to suffer through your rants and raves during the election......there is some food for thought.
What's the "we" shit Mr. 40-posts-and-just-joined-2-weeks-before-the-election?

Saulbadguy
12-01-2004, 08:03 AM
Seriously, what do all the pro choice types think of basically abortion out of the womb? Yet to get any replies here cept for Taco and his introducing himself to dog crap stories.
I've met many 20+ year olds that should be aborted, well out of the womb.

Donger
12-01-2004, 08:50 AM
I never understood how anyone could object to freeing someone of similar misery through euthanasia.

Euthanizing newborns is somewhat different than euthanizing an adult.

mlyonsd
12-01-2004, 08:52 AM
Euthanizing newborns is somewhat different than euthanizing an adult.

I agree, I have no problem with it if the adult is the one asking for it to be done.

Euthanizing a newborn is just plain murder.

Clint in Wichita
12-01-2004, 11:06 AM
I find it odd that, even though most pro-lifers are Christians, they are not content to keep their noses out of other peoples' business and let their all-powerful God deal with the "murderer" when they die.

Hell, if God really cared that much, he'd step in and stop abortion himself.

jAZ
12-01-2004, 11:13 AM
Euthanizing newborns is somewhat different than euthanizing an adult.
Can you explain what you mean? Or why you feel that way?

Clint in Wichita
12-01-2004, 11:14 AM
Euthanizing newborns is somewhat different than euthanizing an adult.


Well, you can use a smaller knife, that's for sure.

Patriot 21
12-01-2004, 11:35 AM
I've met many 20+ year olds that should be aborted, well out of the womb.

I've also heard it said that when you point a finger @ someone else, there are three pointing back at yourself. :hmmm:

Soupnazi
12-01-2004, 11:35 AM
Well, you can use a smaller knife, that's for sure.

OMG! You're going to hell wearing gasoline underwear for that one.

Duck Dog
12-01-2004, 11:50 AM
Give PETA a couple decades, that will be a felony before my grandchildren are born.


Not as long as we still own guns. ;)

Duck Dog
12-01-2004, 11:52 AM
Well, you can use a smaller knife, that's for sure.


funny...but sick, man.

tyton75
12-01-2004, 03:55 PM
... do they load the truck using little coffins... or pitchforks?

MadProphetMargin
12-01-2004, 06:36 PM
Obviously pro-lifers are going to be very against this, what do you pro-choicers think of of this?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041130/D86MD4DG1.html

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures, which include administering a lethal dose of sedatives. The announcement by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives

1. Once a person is born, they are protected by law. The above practice is heinous, especially the part bolded out.

2. There is no contradiction, because I do not view a fetus as a human. with all the inherent rights, etc.

BigVE
12-01-2004, 06:48 PM
Pro-abortioner?

What a moron. I've met piles of dog crap with more brains than you.

AH yes....the Faiders were in town last week.

MonroeChief
12-01-2004, 08:00 PM
What's the "we" shit Mr. 40-posts-and-just-joined-2-weeks-before-the-election?

What's your point? I have the ability to read and have seen your actions witnessed by your own posts.

What does when I joined have to do with anything? I hit the nail on the head, must have you are whining.