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tk13
12-01-2004, 01:05 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/10307853.htm

Chiefs follow the market
Final games will help KC choose free-agent shopping list

By IVAN CARTER
The Kansas City Star


Depending on what team you are and which players you sign, unrestricted free agency can either be the solution to everything that ails you or a poorly constructed Band-Aid, eating up salary-cap space and delaying a franchise's inevitable rebuilding process.

The 10-1 Eagles, who hit home runs with the free-agent signings of Terrell Owens and Jevon Kearse last off-season, fit into the first category. The 4-7 Raiders, who signed Ted Washington, Warren Sapp and Ray Buchanan, among others, obviously fit into the second.

At 3-8, the competitive portion of the 2004 season is over for the Chiefs, so the process of preparing for the 2005 season has already begun. The Chiefs will be in a unique position this offseason, because every regular starter and each of the team's nine 2003 Pro Bowlers will be under contract through at least next season.

The team will also hold at least nine picks and possibly more in April's NFL draft, and good salary-cap management has put team president/general manager Carl Peterson in a position where he can do some shopping when the free-agency period opens March 2.

The Chiefs' draft position and specific areas of need heading into the off-season will be determined by what happens in the final five games, but count ESPN analyst and former NFL cornerback Eric Allen among those who believe the Chiefs need a serious upgrade in defensive talent.

“When I look at that defense, I see a real lack of playmaking,” Allen said. “And that's been the case for a few years now. They've shown that they can score points; they have a dangerous return guy in Dante Hall, but they can't stop anybody. Whether it's in the draft or free agency, the Chiefs have to find a way to get a couple of difference-makers on that defense.”

The year's crop of potential unrestricted free agents includes big names such as Jets defensive end John Abraham, who ranks third in the NFL with 9.5 sacks; Raiders corner Charles Woodson, a four-time Pro Bowler; Washington corner Fred Smoot, Steelers linebacker Kendrell Bell, Raiders receiver Jerry Porter, Steelers receiver Plaxico Burress and Colts receiver Marvin Harrison.

However, many of those players and several other top potential free agents are expected to re-sign with their current teams, or in the case of Abraham and Woodson, be slapped with their team's franchise tag.

Assuming that the big names are either retained by their current teams or sign big-money deals elsewhere, the Chiefs would be left looking at a less impressive list of players that could include Saints defensive end Darren Howard, Seahawks defensive end Chike Okeafor, Lions defensive tackle Shaun Rogers, Panthers linebacker Mark Fields, Ravens linebacker Edgerton Hartwell and Ravens corner Gary Baxter.

That would put the Chiefs in a similar position to what they were in following the 2002 season, when they signed defensive end Vonnie Holliday, linebacker Shawn Barber and cornerback Dexter McCleon, all of whom came with solid reputations but were never Pro Bowl-level players.

Last off-season, the Chiefs elected to re-sign their own, including defensive end Eric Hicks, defensive tackle John Browning, cornerback William Bartee and safeties Greg Wesley and Jerome Woods while dipping into free agency only to add defensive tackle Lional Dalton — one of the few Chiefs defenders who has played well this season.

But even if the Chiefs were to temporarily placate their frustrated fan base and make off-season headlines by signing big names, recent NFL history is littered with examples of teams that came to regret major dips into free agency.

The Raiders, for instance, made offseason noise by signing Sapp, Washington, Buchanan, defensive end Bobby Hamilton, linebacker Dwayne Rudd and corner Denard Walker.

Despite those moves and the recent first-round draft selections of corner Philip Buchanon, defensive end Tyler Brayton, linebacker Napoleon Harris and corner Nnamdi Asomugha, the Raiders enter Sunday's game against the Chiefs with a defense ranked last in the NFL in run defense, 26th in total defense and 29th in scoring defense.

That's why the next five weeks will be so key in determining the future direction of the Chiefs, especially on defense.

“Everybody assumes … there just aren't automatically 15 All-Pros that want to come to Kansas City and automatically fit into the Kansas City salary cap, or that go to anybody else's salary cap,” Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil said. “But we will be in a good position to be competitive.

“Personally, I don't think we're that far away from being a better defense.”

“We would have been better (in Sunday's loss to San Diego) if the guys playing just didn't make a technical error and did it the way they're instructed to do it. But they don't yet.”

2bikemike
12-01-2004, 01:17 AM
Personally I think were fugged. It will be tough to get enough help to make a big impact.

J Diddy
12-01-2004, 02:26 AM
Personally I think were fugged. It will be tough to get enough help to make a big impact.

I think, with our offense, if we sign just one probowler on defense, I think some other players will follow.

Fairplay
12-01-2004, 02:52 AM
I think, with our offense, if we sign just one probowler on defense, I think some other players will follow.




I don't understand. Other players will follow?

|Zach|
12-01-2004, 02:57 AM
I don't understand. Other players will follow?
Having good players around you can make you a better player

Fairplay
12-01-2004, 03:12 AM
Having good players around you can make you a better player



Thats a joke. Its going to have to be more then one stud player to make this defense better.
Many people on this board thought that with the addition of Gunther that our defense would come around. Oh really i thought. Well my friend we are currently ranked no.30 in defense overall.
We need an overhaul at defense. Thats right get rid of at least half our players and get new ones. Through the draft, trades, free agents or what have you.

J Diddy
12-01-2004, 03:42 AM
Thats a joke. Its going to have to be more then one stud player to make this defense better.
Many people on this board thought that with the addition of Gunther that our defense would come around. Oh really i thought. Well my friend we are currently ranked no.30 in defense overall.
We need an overhaul at defense. Thats right get rid of at least half our players and get new ones. Through the draft, trades, free agents or what have you.

Here is the question: Would ray lewis come here if he was the only addition? NO

Everyone knows (except peterson, perhaps) that it is going to take more than one player. I don't think the chiefs will get a single probowler in FA.

We, are gonna be stuck in the bengals zone.

J Diddy
12-01-2004, 03:48 AM
Thats a joke. Its going to have to be more then one stud player to make this defense better.
Many people on this board thought that with the addition of Gunther that our defense would come around. Oh really i thought. Well my friend we are currently ranked no.30 in defense overall.
We need an overhaul at defense. Thats right get rid of at least half our players and get new ones. Through the draft, trades, free agents or what have you.

Well, you really got this figured out.

Now, praytell, how do you propose we do this.

A trade for an awesome player is gonna cause a problem long term due to dealing draft picks. So you're gonna trade a stud in his prime for a few years for the right to maybe pick a stud for the long haul.

FA is great, but it is mostly to the highest bidder which will hit the cap, further hitting future development.

The draft is how to get it done. The Chiefs don't do a good job at that. Unless we get new draft gurus we are screwed.

Fairplay
12-01-2004, 04:01 AM
Well, you really got this figured out.

Now, praytell, how do you propose we do this.

A trade for an awesome player is gonna cause a problem long term due to dealing draft picks. So you're gonna trade a stud in his prime for a few years for the right to maybe pick a stud for the long haul.

FA is great, but it is mostly to the highest bidder which will hit the cap, further hitting future development.

The draft is how to get it done. The Chiefs don't do a good job at that. Unless we get new draft gurus we are screwed.



I was replying to the statement that one stud defensive player will make our defense improve in all postions. I disagree. We have too many players that are not NFL caliber. FA is good if you use it in the best judgement of needing the player/postion, a seasoned veteran with some years left in him can help for sure.
The draft is an art form especially 4th round pick on. Yes we need a draft guru to make the best picks in the later rounds. Most any idiot can pick a good player the first three rounds. Its the later rounds to see whose the real genius.

Spicy McHaggis
12-01-2004, 04:03 AM
"Assuming that the big names are either retained by their current teams or sign big-money deals elsewhere, the Chiefs would be left looking at a less impressive list of players that could include Saints defensive end Darren Howard, Seahawks defensive end Chike Okeafor, Lions defensive tackle Shaun Rogers, Panthers linebacker Mark Fields, Ravens linebacker Edgerton Hartwell and Ravens corner Gary Baxter."

Man if we signed Hartwell and Rogers I'd piss myself with glee. Both are younger guys with good potential. Part of me wonders how much is Hartwell playing with a great LB corp though. Siavii and Rogers would be simply mammoth in the middle. Couple that with a premier draft pick and we're well on our way to being respectable again.

J Diddy
12-01-2004, 04:05 AM
I was replying to the statement that one stud defensive player will make our defense improve in all postions. I disagree. We have too many players that are not NFL caliber. FA is good if you use it in the best judgement of needing the player/postion, a seasoned veteran with some years left in him can help for sure.
The draft is an art form especially 4th round pick on. Yes we need a draft guru to make the best picks in the later rounds. Most any idiot can pick a good player the first three rounds. Its the later rounds to see whose the real genius.

This is where you are wrong. Truth of the matter the current draft gurus are excellent in getting late round draft production.

They suck in the first 3 rounds.
Look up previous drafts to see.

to give you a few examples of late round draft picks.

Donnie Edwards, Derrick Blaylock, Kevin Sampson

Fairplay
12-01-2004, 04:25 AM
This is where you are wrong. Truth of the matter the current draft gurus are excellent in getting late round draft production.

They suck in the first 3 rounds.
Look up previous drafts to see.

to give you a few examples of late round draft picks.

Donnie Edwards, Derrick Blaylock, Kevin Sampson




I would say this is a general statement. There are always going to be jewels in the rough at later postions as there are always going to be early rounders that don't pan out. You can't say for certain after you draft the players how many will actually work out on any teams draft. No one has a crystal ball that can see all that, not that im aware of.

jspchief
12-01-2004, 06:44 AM
Man if we signed Hartwell and Rogers I'd piss myself with glee. Both are younger guys with good potential. Part of me wonders how much is Hartwell playing with a great LB corp though. Siavii and Rogers would be simply mammoth in the middle. Couple that with a premier draft pick and we're well on our way to being respectable again.

I agree that it would be nice to have Rogers. Unfortunately, we've put so much effort into the DT position in the last few years, I feel it's time to concentrate on other positions. How many years are we going to ignore other positions, simply so we can finally "get it right" at DT?

BigRedChief
12-01-2004, 07:15 AM
I agree that it would be nice to have Rogers. Unfortunately, we've put so much effort into the DT position in the last few years, I feel it's time to concentrate on other positions. How many years are we going to ignore other positions, simply so we can finally "get it right" at DT?

The frigging DT is our "strength" now. :banghead:

Secondary is crappy. LB corp is crappy. Besides Allen's potential we have nothing at DE.

It comes back to King Carl. He has spent several draft picks on the OL and everybody in the league gets their OL through free agency. 2 major first rounders on RT? Coach the bad technique out of Terrell Jenkins? ROFL

milkman
12-01-2004, 07:15 AM
I agree that it would be nice to have Rogers. Unfortunately, we've put so much effort into the DT position in the last few years, I feel it's time to concentrate on other positions. How many years are we going to ignore other positions, simply so we can finally "get it right" at DT?

The problem is that until we get right at DT, and at LB, we can't expect to improve this defense more than marginally.

Good defenses start in the front 7.

New England is still playing solid D because of their front 7, and in spite of the fact that they are having to use Troy Brown and a bunch of scrubs at DB.

It would be great to have a 'shutdown corner', but I'm willing to put that on my future wish list.
I want studs in the front 7.

the Talking Can
12-01-2004, 07:18 AM
The problem is that until we get right at DT, and at LB, we can't expect to improve this defense more than marginally.

Good defenses start in the front 7.

New England is still playing solid D because of their front 7, and in spite of the fact that they are having to use Troy Brown and a bunch of scrubs at DB.

It would be great to have a 'shutdown corner', but I'm willing to put that on my future wish list.
I want studs in the front 7.

yeah, the Patriots make a compelling argument for LBs over CBs....lord knows we need 2 LBs

jspchief
12-01-2004, 07:20 AM
The problem is that until we get right at DT, and at LB, we can't expect to improve this defense more than marginally.

Good defenses start in the front 7.

New England is still playing solid D because of their front 7, and in spite of the fact that they are having to use Troy Brown and a bunch of scrubs at DB.

It would be great to have a 'shutdown corner', but I'm willing to put that on my future wish list.
I want studs in the front 7.

I don't disagree. I just think that we need to hope Sims, Dalton, and Siavii can give us what we need. We've probably seen enough to know that Sims won't work out, but Dalton has looked pretty decent this year. Siavii was our top pick last year, IMO we need to give him a chance to develop. It's a luxury to quit on Siavii, when we have so many other glaring weaknesses. We took this guy for a reason, now let's expect something of him.

Mr. Laz
12-01-2004, 09:28 AM
yeah, the Patriots make a compelling argument for LBs over CBs....lord knows we need 2 LBs
or is it that Troy Brown is actually a better cornerback than any of ours?


we've been trying this "front 7" first routine for years now and it hasn't gotten us zip. Maybe we should actually try and grab a real cover corner for once instead of converting another safety.

milkman
12-01-2004, 09:34 AM
or is it that Troy Brown is actually a better cornerback than any of ours?


we've been trying this "front 7" first routine for years now and it hasn't gotten us zip. Maybe we should actually try and grab a real cover corner for once instead of converting another safety.

The key word here is 'trying'.
However, trying doesn't equate success.

And with these guys in charge, I don't we'd see any better results in the secondary.

More likely to be worse, actually.

Mr. Laz
12-01-2004, 09:35 AM
The key word here is 'trying'.
However, trying doesn't equate success.

And with these guys in chjarge, I don't we'd see any better results in the secondary.

More likely to be worse, actually.

true :huh:

KCTitus
12-01-2004, 09:35 AM
Im a firm believer that NE is allowed more contact on the WR's than other teams. Having watched several of their games lately, stuff that they dont get called for, would have drawn a flag on KC.

Sure-Oz
12-01-2004, 09:41 AM
Who wouldn't want to come here and have a high powered offense like ours?? I think good players would have us on their list, we are a SB contender with an avg defense.

Baby Lee
12-01-2004, 09:47 AM
we are a SB contender with an avg defense.
Someone stick a fork in my eye. :cuss:

Hoover
12-01-2004, 09:49 AM
We don't need pro bowlers, heck isn't that what we have in Jermoe Woods?

We need solid guys with heart who can tackel

philfree
12-01-2004, 09:50 AM
We need to improve the pass rush and the coverage on 3rd down. Any way we can.....

PhilFree :arrow:

Calcountry
12-01-2004, 10:36 AM
Thats a joke. Its going to have to be more then one stud player to make this defense better.
Many people on this board thought that with the addition of Gunther that our defense would come around. Oh really i thought. Well my friend we are currently ranked no.30 in defense overall.
We need an overhaul at defense. Thats right get rid of at least half our players and get new ones. Through the draft, trades, free agents or what have you.
Thats right! Fug em all. Let them try to get another job in the NFL, with their rep it would be hard for most of themt o make practice squads.

Hey KC D, take a long last look at that field of dreams. You might as well be seniors on about 98% of the HS football teams playing out their last year.

Every pick in the Draft should be D except for WR. Those #2 and #3 in depth ought to be told to step up, this is their chance.

The only keepers that I can think of right now are Dalton, Allen, Wesley, and Warfield. Wesley and Warfield on the thinest of ice though.

The rest can get fooked.

ck_IN
12-01-2004, 10:38 AM
Very good article and on the money. As much as I like to bash CP and DV I really don't fault them much for the FA in the offseason. There simply wasn't that much out there and what was there was signed by whatever team they visited first. CB was particualrly thin.

Then again I'm not a big fan of FA anyway. A few teams have had success but you usually wind up with an Oakland or Washington. The draft is where you build your team and this is precisly where CP and DV have screwed us over. By now our starting D should have a good sampling of draft picks from DV's 1st and 2nd draft. Where are they? Minnis (I know offense) is out of the league. Downing is no longer with the team. Freeman is no longer with the team. Harts is playing for Woods but playing almost as badly. Fujita is the 'star' of our defense. Mitchell is hopless at MLB. Battle is even more hopless then Mitchell. Layne (again offense) is in Atlanta. Sims is a world class bust. The whizkids have ruined this team with their pathetic drafts. Trying to play catchup in FA is a fools errand IMO.

What's the take on DV's line about 'if they'd just do it like we teach them' line? Personally I find that to be a very petty remark. These are DV's players with a few exceptions. If they don't do it the way they're taught, then maybe DV should look in the mirror and ask why.

bringbackmarty
12-01-2004, 11:05 AM
I think the answer to our defense with regard to player acquisitions is fairly straightforward. I don't feel like we need 8-10 new players on d - I think we should get at least four, with three projected to start. If we end up with a top five pick and Rolle, or Derrick Johnson is on the board, take one of them. If not target Mike Williams. After that anyone really, we have need all over the team except at HB and Tight end. We could go quarterback, LT, OG, WR, CB, S., DE, DT, OLB, MLB. they all would be justifiable picks on this team for a first round probably non impact pick. Assuming we get rolle, here's my list.
Hartwell
Burress
Abraham
If we get Johnson, swap Hartwell for Smoot, or woodson for the right deal. He does seem injured a lot, but he does have a ring. I have doubts if AL would ever let him go to a rival, but we got Marcus Allen didn't we? We could probably start all four of those players by the playoffs next year. The key is Abraham. Hicks is soft, and we need a true leader on that line. Someone to get in sims' face and show him how to do it right, someone to kick siavii in the ass a little too. Same thing with the LB's Johnson would cause some havoc, so would hartwell, although it could be suggs, boulware and lewis propping him up.

TEX
12-01-2004, 11:15 AM
I think the answer to our defense with regard to player acquisitions is fairly straightforward. I don't feel like we need 8-10 new players on d - I think we should get at least four, with three projected to start. If we end up with a top five pick and Rolle, or Derrick Johnson is on the board, take one of them. If not target Mike Williams. After that anyone really, we have need all over the team except at HB and Tight end. We could go quarterback, LT, OG, WR, CB, S., DE, DT, OLB, MLB. they all would be justifiable picks on this team for a first round probably non impact pick. Assuming we get rolle, here's my list.
Hartwell
Burress
Abraham
If we get Johnson, swap Hartwell for Smoot, or woodson for the right deal. He does seem injured a lot, but he does have a ring. I have doubts if AL would ever let him go to a rival, but we got Marcus Allen didn't we? We could probably start all four of those players by the playoffs next year. The key is Abraham. Hicks is soft, and we need a true leader on that line. Someone to get in sims' face and show him how to do it right, someone to kick siavii in the ass a little too. Same thing with the LB's Johnson would cause some havoc, so would hartwell, although it could be suggs, boulware and lewis propping him up.

The Jets already signed Abraham. When did Woodsen get a ring? :hmmm:

Johnson IS THE GUY to draft...
I'd go after Baxter at CB via FA.

|Zach|
12-01-2004, 11:17 AM
Thats a joke. Its going to have to be more then one stud player to make this defense better.
Many people on this board thought that with the addition of Gunther that our defense would come around. Oh really i thought. Well my friend we are currently ranked no.30 in defense overall.
We need an overhaul at defense. Thats right get rid of at least half our players and get new ones. Through the draft, trades, free agents or what have you.
I don't think it will take just one player to turn this thing around...btu I don't see hwo you can disagree with the idea that having good players makes the players around them better.

TEX
12-01-2004, 11:20 AM
Very good article and on the money. As much as I like to bash CP and DV I really don't fault them much for the FA in the offseason. There simply wasn't that much out there and what was there was signed by whatever team they visited first. CB was particualrly thin.


What are you talking about???? There were more good FA CB's available last off season than any off season in recent memory! Problem was that by the time the CHIEFS went looking, all but a few were left. Fact is, they BLEW last off season the same way they blew thier recent draft picks. I've never seen an organization not have a clue both ways as much as the CHIEFS last off season. Pathetic is to good of a word... :cuss:

ck_IN
12-01-2004, 12:11 PM
Sorry Tex but I just don't remember there being that many good CB's. I remember one though his name escapes me and he was signed by the first team he visited. If you have a list I'd be happy to see it.

Don't get me wrong I'm not cutting CP and DV overall slack. I'm just cutting them some for FA. Dv's last draft was as awful has all the rest he's conducted. Siavii may save that last draft but almost every pick had me saying 'huh?'.

Cochise
12-01-2004, 12:14 PM
If we could draft D. Johnson, pick up Smooth and/or Bell through free agency, and maybe add one more playmaker on the D-line, I think that would make a world of difference.

Cochise
12-01-2004, 12:16 PM
There were more good FA CB's available last off season than any off season in recent memory!

Like who? Troy Vincent is the only one I can think of, and if I'm not mistaken he's played in 3 games this year.

Brock
12-01-2004, 12:17 PM
Sorry Tex but I just don't remember there being that many good CB's. I remember one though his name escapes me and he was signed by the first team he visited. If you have a list I'd be happy to see it.

Don't get me wrong I'm not cutting CP and DV overall slack. I'm just cutting them some for FA. Dv's last draft was as awful has all the rest he's conducted. Siavii may save that last draft but almost every pick had me saying 'huh?'.

I'm guessing Antoine Winfield, who the Chiefs should have thrown money at.

Rausch
12-01-2004, 12:20 PM
I'm guessing Antoine Winfield, who the Chiefs should have thrown money at.

I was wanting Bobby Taylor, but would have settled for Vincent if his price wasn't so high...Winfield is a great tackler (which we need) but he gets abused by bigger WR's...

shaneo69
12-01-2004, 12:32 PM
Like who? Troy Vincent is the only one I can think of, and if I'm not mistaken he's played in 3 games this year.

Antoine Winfield
Bobby Taylor
Ahmed Plummer
Shawn Springs
Jason Webster
and my personal favorite, David Barrett

Chris McAlister and Charles Woodson were franchised

Champ Bailey and Mike McKenzie were available in trades

MOhillbilly
12-01-2004, 12:37 PM
Give KC a MLB that can put his nose on the ball is all i can ask for.




Thinkin' im the only vato loco in town still wearing Chiefs gear.

ck_IN
12-01-2004, 12:39 PM
Thanks, Vincent is the guy I was thinking of but couldn't name.

Winfield is ok but I think he'd have major problems with some of the taller WR's we seem to have in the West.

I think Taylor is on the downhill side so I don't miss him.

A healthy Springs would be interesting but how often is he healthy?

Plummer is about the same level as Warfield IMO so I don't see him as worth the money.

I still contend that FA CB's were thin this offseason. But the real reason we're screwed defensively is due to the fact that CP/DV have blown their respective drafts.

MOhillbilly
12-01-2004, 12:43 PM
Winfield is ok but I think he'd have major problems with some of the taller WR's we seem to have in the West.




He can tackle but they had dick for ints in buffalo last year and has hands of stone.
Id like him for an attack style D,but he has a great cast of defensive players to cover his mistakes.

Id pass on em'.JMO.

Cochise
12-01-2004, 12:49 PM
Antoine Winfield
Bobby Taylor
Ahmed Plummer
Shawn Springs
Jason Webster
and my personal favorite, David Barrett

Chris McAlister and Charles Woodson were franchised

Champ Bailey and Mike McKenzie were available in trades

Taylor, Springs, Plummer, etc., all suffer from the same criticisms as Vincent and McCleon before them, that they are on the down side of their careers and would only be a band-aid solution.

Bobby Taylor, by the way, has 0 interceptions this year and 2 defenses, William Bartee-like numbers.

Ahmed Plummer resigned with the 49ers, and also has 0 interceptions this year. Plus he's got neck and disc problems that usually don't go away once they set in.

Springs is a legitimate beef, but I don't think there is any way we were going to outbid Snyder for a guy he was determined to get.

And if I'm not mistaken, hasn't Webster been plagued by injuries as well? He's missed 5 games this year and from what I can find only started 5 games the year before that.

BigChiefFan
12-01-2004, 12:56 PM
They better do more than just follow the market. They better get involved in the market. Carl's got his work cut out for him.