So what do ya'll think of this video of arab attitude toward jews?

[Saggysack]

Don't be surprised but it is from our great ally, Saudi Arabia... :rolleyes:

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ClipMediaID=40654&ak=null



I see it on equal ground as Hitler and the Nazis sentiment towards those of jewish ancestry.

[Saulbadguy]

Whoop-dee-doo. You could go to Western Kansas and hear some of the same answers.

[Cochise]

nothing new there. been going on forever.

[Saggysack]

Whoop-dee-doo. You could go to Western Kansas and hear some of the same answers.

See, I disagree. Are those in civilians in Western Kansas waging jihad? Are they bombing terrorists? Are they going to anti-terrorist camps and infiltrating into other countries to fight arab terrorist forces?

[Saggysack]

nothing new there. been going on forever.

I guess I disagree with that as well. There was a time where a american could walk across the ME all the way to Southeast Asia and not have a worry other than scoring some bunk hash. Not too long ago either. Remember the hippy trail?

[KCWolfman]

See, I disagree. Are those in civilians in Western Kansas waging jihad? Are they bombing terrorists? Are they going to anti-terrorist camps and infiltrating into other countries to fight arab terrorist forces?
No, but this is not merely the ME either. Europe, once again, is the biggest offender of them all.

[Cochise]

I guess I disagree with that as well. There was a time where a american could walk across the ME all the way to Southeast Asia and not have a worry other than scoring some bunk hash. Not too long ago either. Remember the hippy trail?

Well, I was under the impression that this bottomless hatred of Jews by Arabs had been going on for hundreds or thousands of years.

[Saggysack]

No, but this is not merely the ME either. Europe, once again, is the biggest offender of them all.

Europe? Which countries IYO?

[Saggysack]

Well, I was under the impression that this bottomless hatred of Jews by Arabs had been going on for hundreds or thousands of years.

Hatred yes, but, turning that hatred into terrorism against Jews has not always happened. When did the change take place? When did the fundamentalists take control?

[Donger]

Hatred yes, but, turning that hatred into terrorism against Jews has not always happened. When did the change take place? When did the fundamentalists take control?

You need to brush up on the history of the Jews, saggy.

[homey]

The sooner we all realize that both sides are guilty the better off this country will be.

[Saggysack]

You need to brush up on the history of the Jews, saggy.

Maybe, maybe not.

Here is a quote from an interesting read.

These new fundamentalists deemphasize the long history of Islamic tolerance of the Jews across centuries and continents, fixating instead upon the early conflict between Muhammad and the Jewish tribes of 7th-century Arabia. The Jews who clashed with Muhammad are presented as archetypes of a universal Jew, treacherous by nature, whose perfidy threatens not only Islam but all humanity.

[Donger]

The sooner we all realize that both sides are guilty the better off this country will be.

Guilty of what?

[Saggysack]

This is from another interesting read...




In contrast to a widespread belief, this polito-religious movement did not come into existence during the 1960's but during the 1930's.

The success of this movement was not inspired by the failure of Nasserism but by the rise of Nazism. Up to 1951, all its campaigns to mobilize the people had not been directed against colonial powers but against Jews. It was the Organization of the Moslem Brotherhood, founded in 1928, which established Islamism as a mass movement. The meaning of this organization for Islamism is comparable to the meaning of the Bolshevik party for Communism in the 20th century: Up to now it is the point of reference in terms of ideology and it is the organizational core, which decisively inspired all following islamist tendencies including the al Qaida network and which is inspiring them to this very day.

It is true that British colonial policy produced Islamism as a resistance movement against "cultural modernity" and triggered the call for a Sharia-based new order. But the Brotherhood did not conduct its jihad primarily against the British; it did not conduct it against the French or against the Egyptian elite who had collaborated with the British. Instead, the jihad movement of the Brotherhood was focused almost exclusively on Zionism and the Jews. In 1936 they had only eight hundred members but in 1938 they had expanded to an amazing two hundred thousand. Between these years, however, only one big campaign took place in Egypt which targeted Zionism and the Jews exclusively.

This campaign was set off by a rebellion in Palestine which the notorious Mufti of Jerusalem, Amin el-Husseini, had initiated. "Down with the Jews!"

"Jews get out of Egypt and Palestine!": these were the slogans of the mass demonstrations which the Brotherhood had organized in Egyptian cities as a result.

Their leaflets called for a boycott of Jewish goods and Jewish shops. In their newspaper al-Nadhir they started a regular column called "The danger of the Jews of Egypt." There they published the names and addresses of Jewish businessmen and the publishers of allegedly Jewish newspapers all over the world, attributing every evil - from communism to brothels - to the "Jewish danger". A lot of patterns of action as well as slogans thus had been borrowed from Nazi Germany. In addition, the Brotherhood made a call to its followers "to be available for the Jihad in defense of the Aqsa-mosque in all parts of Egypt". This call was unusual and completely new within the Moslem world at that time.

For the Moslem Brotherhood has been the organization which firstly created the idea of a belligerent jihad and the longing for death as an Islamic model for modern times. As early as 1938, Hassan al-Banna, the charismatic founder of the Brotherhood, presented his idea of jihad to the public by publishing an article entitled "The industry of death". This headline, however, did not refer to the horror of death but to death as an ideal to long for. Hassan al-Banna wrote: "To a nation that perfects the industry of death and which knows how to die nobly, God gives proud life in this world and eternal grace in the life to come."

This slogan met with enthusiasm within the "Troops of God" as the Brotherhood referred to itself. Whenever their battalions marched down the boulevards of Cairo in a semi-fascist formation they burst forth into song: "We are not afraid of death, we desire it... Let us die in redemption for Muslims." This idea of jihad was not formulated in modern times until the 1930's; it had been interwoven with the anti-Semitic impulse from the very beginning.

The anti-Semitism of the Brotherhood, therefore, was not only influenced by European ideologies but by Islamic roots as well. Firstly, Islamists considered, and still consider, Palestine as being an Islamic territory ("Dar al-Islam") where Jews are never allowed to run one single village let alone a state. Secondly, this new front line between Muslims and Jews evoked old memories of the early history of Islam. Islamists, for example, try to legitimatize their aspiration to drive out or kill the Jews of Palestine referring to the example of Mohammed who, as the legend goes, succeeded not only in expelling two Jewish tribes from Medina during the 7th century, but killed the entire male population of the third tribe and sold all the women and children into slavery. Thirdly, it was exactly this enmity which seemingly proved right the saying of the Koran that Jews are to be considered the worst enemy of the believers.

It was not until May 8, 1945, however, that the ideological rapproachment between the Muslim Brothers and the Nazis reached a peak. This became obvious as early as November 1945. During this very month the Muslim Brothers committed the most fervent anti-Jewish pogroms in Egypt's history: The center of anti-Semitism was beginning to shift from Germany into the Arab world.

[Donger]

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.

[Cochise]

You need to brush up on the history of the Jews, saggy.

That's what I was thinking.

[Saggysack]

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.


I completely agree.

Do you think their prevailing attitude towards Jews is on par with Nazi's?

[Cochise]

The sooner we all realize that both sides are guilty the better off this country will be.

Oh, damn, I forgot about the last time some Jew got on a bus and blew up a bunch of women and children. Or the last time a Jew abducted some random person and cut their head off. Or the last time some Jews hijacked airplanes and crashed them into buildings. Damn, the sooner we figure out that they are just as big of a threat the better of we'll be.

[Saggysack]

That's what I was thinking.


Thinking causes brain farts.

[Donger]

I completely agree.

Do you think their prevailing attitude towards Jews is on par with Nazi's?

Interesting question, and I'm not sure I have an cogent answer.

[Saggysack]

Interesting question, and I'm not sure I have an cogent answer.

It's a tough question.

[Cochise]

I completely agree.

Do you think their prevailing attitude towards Jews is on par with Nazi's?

Well, somewhat.

I think one difference was that the Nazis were in power over a land that had a lot of jews in the population, so they could execute their will more easily. I dont think there are probably a lot of jews living in Syria, for instance.

Secondly, I think this is the main objective of these types. I don't think the annihilation of the jewish people was the Nazis' main aim, I think they were mostly bent on conquest, but also tried to get rid of some people they didn't like along the way.

[Saggysack]

Well, somewhat.

I think one difference was that the Nazis were in power over a land that had a lot of jews in the population, so they could execute their will more easily. I dont think there are probably a lot of jews living in Syria, for instance.

Secondly, I think this is the main objective of these types. I don't think the annihilation of the jewish people was the Nazis' main aim, I think they were mostly bent on conquest, but also tried to get rid of some people they didn't like along the way.

You think the Nazis efforts against the Jews wasn't an act of genocide? It just happened on their way towards their quest for power? Maybe I'm not understanding you completely.

[Cochise]

You think the Nazis efforts against the Jews wasn't an act of genocide? It just happened on their way towards their quest for power? Maybe I'm not understanding you completely.

No, I don't mean that, I mean that I don't believe they were conquering all these other nations with the principle aim in doing so being to exterminate the jewish populations in them. I think their primary objective was conquest. Whereas, with the Islamic extremists, you have the opposite.

[Saggysack]

No, I don't mean that, I mean that I don't believe they were conquering all these other nations with the principle aim in doing so being to exterminate the jewish populations in them. I think their primary objective was conquest. Whereas, with the Islamic extremists, you have the opposite.

Oh, ok, gotcha.

[Cochise]

Oh, ok, gotcha.

I dunno, maybe you don't see the distinction, or maybe there isn't one. Just something I have thought about.

It's sort of like the difference between if I went to the grocery store only to buy a loaf of bread, or if I went into to store and bought 6 or 7 things, bread being among them.

In the former, you'd said my interest was buying bread, and you'd be right. In the latter, you'd say I wanted bread but you wouldn't say that my motivation was the same as in the previous situation.

[Clint in Wichita]

Arabs hate Jews?

This was breaking news...2000 YEARS AGO.

[Duck Dog]

The sooner we all realize that both sides are guilty the better off this country will be.


What exactly is Israel guilty of? Protecting it's self?

[Duck Dog]

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.


You're a wise man.

[Mr. Kotter]

Arabs hate Jews?

This was breaking news...2000 YEARS AGO.

Actually, it was closer to 4,300 yrs ago.
:p

[Brock]

I guess I disagree with that as well. There was a time where a american could walk across the ME all the way to Southeast Asia and not have a worry other than scoring some bunk hash. Not too long ago either. Remember the hippy trail?

Thus the secret to the rest of the world's hatred of Americans is revealed.

[Amnorix]

What exactly is Israel guilty of? Protecting it's self?

Stealing land that (1) is holy to Islam and (2) has been the home of Arabs for several thousand years.

Mind you, I completely disagree with the entire position of the Palestinians, and fully support Israel, but I figured I'd at least present what the other side isn't happy about.

Realize, of course, that Palestine is an area that was fought over for many thousands of years (site of the Crusades, etc.). For a good while, immediately prior to World War II, it was part of the British Empire and populated mostly by, of course, Palestinians. Jews had been relocating to that area for a good while prior to WWII, however. In the aftermath of World War II, a very long quest by Jews to "reclaim" Israel (which had been equally long ignored by world powers) got new impetus and momentum once the full extent of the Holocaust was realized.

Therefore, the world powers, by fiat, declared that Israel belonged to a group of Jewish leaders and their followers. This was, somewhat unsurprisingly, not a welcome decision among Arabs and particularly those that lived there.

[Jenson71]

Pretty interesting when they say "killers of prophets" and they're talking about Jesus -Christians savior, a Jew, and a Muslim prophet. Those three religions are all so alike, all have the same God, but yet there's so much hate.

[Cochise]

Stealing land that (1) is holy to Islam and (2) has been the home of Arabs for several thousand years.

-Is it not also holy to Jews?
-What several thousand years were there when Jews didn't live there?

[Amnorix]

Well, somewhat.

I think one difference was that the Nazis were in power over a land that had a lot of jews in the population, so they could execute their will more easily. I dont think there are probably a lot of jews living in Syria, for instance.

Secondly, I think this is the main objective of these types. I don't think the annihilation of the jewish people was the Nazis' main aim, I think they were mostly bent on conquest, but also tried to get rid of some people they didn't like along the way.

I agree with this. The hatred of the Jews and the Nazi attempts to exterminate them was among Hitler's ambitions, but not foremost. He had many insane notions, and hatred of the Jews was but one of them. It was not a prime motivator for him to go forth and conquer, but it was an aim of the Nazis/Hitler to remove Jews from access to power and ultimately altogether from any areas that they controlled. At first it was Germany, the flight of the Jews, theft of their property, Krystallnacht and then, when WWII began and the shackles of even a modicum of decency were thrown off, the Holocaust, which extended to all areas under their dominion.

Note, also, that Nazi atrocities were not limited to just Jews, but also to other groups they deemed sub-human, including gypsies, those with serious mental or physical illnesses, etc., and included not just extermination but horrendous medical experiments.

[KCWolfman]

Stealing land that (1) is holy to Islam and (2) has been the home of Arabs for several thousand years.

Mind you, I completely disagree with the entire position of the Palestinians, and fully support Israel, but I figured I'd at least present what the other side isn't happy about.

Realize, of course, that Palestine is an area that was fought over for many thousands of years (site of the Crusades, etc.). For a good while, immediately prior to World War II, it was part of the British Empire and populated mostly by, of course, Palestinians. Jews had been relocating to that area for a good while prior to WWII, however. In the aftermath of World War II, a very long quest by Jews to "reclaim" Israel (which had been equally long ignored by world powers) got new impetus and momentum once the full extent of the Holocaust was realized.

Therefore, the world powers, by fiat, declared that Israel belonged to a group of Jewish leaders and their followers. This was, somewhat unsurprisingly, not a welcome decision among Arabs and particularly those that lived there.
You paint a picture with missing parts. Syria, Egypt and other nations expelled the Palestinians from their own lands. They are more culpable than the Allied Group that declared lands won in war as a fair settlement for those opposed - yet no action is ever taken against them by the Arafaterrorists.

[Cochise]

Those three religions are all so alike, all have the same God...

GoJenson drops in for a moment to let us know that he's good at repeating prevailing wisdom without knowing anything about the topic at hand...

[Cochise]

Note, also, that Nazi atrocities were not limited to just Jews, but also to other groups they deemed sub-human, including gypsies, those with serious mental or physical illnesses, etc., and included not just extermination but horrendous medical experiments.

Good point, I forgot to even mention that.

[Amnorix]

-Is it not also holy to Jews?
-What several thousand years were there when Jews didn't live there?

As you know, it is holy to Jews, Christians and Islamics alike, although for different reasons.

I never said *no* Jews lived there, but that area of the world passed from Jewish control or predominancy when, I believe, the Roman empire expanded into that area. Jews were also a minority of the population for about 2,000 years in that region.

Prior to World War I, even, Zionists groups encouraged emigration to what is now Israel as part of a plan to reclaim the holy land that, ultimately and against amazing odds, succeeded with the founding of Israel.

[Amnorix]

You paint a picture with missing parts. Syria, Egypt and other nations expelled the Palestinians from their own lands. They are more culpable than the Allied Group that declared lands won in war as a fair settlement for those opposed - yet no action is ever taken against them by the Arafaterrorists.

I agree the Palestinians were not welcomed in other Arabic areas. I do not assign culpability to the Jewish people for their successfully reclaiming their ancestral homes, nor do I support in any way the actions of the Palestinians since then. I am merely stating their arguments, as someone seemed genuinely uncertain.

I note that the Allies did not "win" Palestine during WWII. I honestly don't know how Palestine came to be part of the British Empire, but it was part of it from prior to the war. The entire area we think of as the Middle East, by and large, was part of the British Empire at one time.

[Jenson71]

GoJenson drops in for a moment to let us know that he's good at repeating prevailing wisdom without knowing anything about the topic at hand...

What? It's true. I saw it on TV.

Or you saying my claim that they all have the same God is false?

[Amnorix]

Good point, I forgot to even mention that.

Those facts are easily and often forgotten given that the numbers tend to pale in comparison to what was perpetrated against the Jews.

The 6 million Jews (most of them women, children and the elderly) that the Nazis callously killed represent more people than the number of American servicemen who have died in ALL of our wars put together. In fact, the number of Jews killed exceeds the number of American servicemen killed AND wounded COMBINED, in all wars put together. Just fugging amazing.

Source for US service casualties: http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/cwc/other/stats/warcost.htm

[Cochise]

Or you saying my claim that they all have the same God is false?

Yes.

I will assume you just heard it someplace unless you have a good argument which I would like to hear.

[homey]

Seriously, the way you look at the conflict is exactly why terrorists want us dead and you’re cliché comebacks don’t change that. I shouldn’t even have to say no one supports suicide bombers and the tactics the PLO, Hummas and others use. If you see Israel as a loyal friend, you aren’t seeing the whole picture.

[Jenson71]

Yes.

I will assume you just heard it someplace unless you have a good argument which I would like to hear.

Well, that's the way I understand it.

All three religions go back to Abraham.

[Amnorix]

What? It's true. I saw it on TV.

Or you saying my claim that they all have the same God is false?

:shake: :spock: :shake: :banghead:

[Cochise]

Seriously, the way you look at the conflict is exactly why terrorists want us dead and you’re cliché comebacks don’t change that. I shouldn’t even have to say no one supports suicide bombers and the tactics the PLO, Hummas and others use. If you see Israel as a loyal friend, you aren’t seeing the whole picture.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're an idiot.

[Jenson71]

All believe in Jesus Christ, Moses, the angel Gabriel, who visited Mary and Muhammed.

[Cochise]

Well, that's the way I understand it.

All three religions go back to Abraham.

So, because the films Tombstone and Wyatt Earp contain some of the same characters, they were directed by the same director, and are really the exact same movie, right?

[Jenson71]

:shake: :spock: :shake: :banghead:

I think it was the banghead smilie that really convinced me I was wrong.

[Cochise]

All believe in Jesus Christ, Moses, the angel Gabriel, who visited Mary and Muhammed.

Shared beliefs are irrelevant to what you said. You said that they worship the same God.

I might share a belief with Amnorix that running the football is important but that doesn't make us both Patriots fans.

[Jenson71]

So, because the films Tombstone and Wyatt Earp contain some of the same characters, they were directed by the same director, and are really the exact same movie, right?

Hmm...I think you would have had me if I'd said all three religions are the exact same religion...

[Amnorix]

Well, that's the way I understand it.

All three religions go back to Abraham.

:eek:

Seriously -- stop posting and just read this discussion. You're just a wee bit out of your depth here.

[Amnorix]

I think it was the banghead smilie that really convinced me I was wrong.

There have to be some good websites out there comparing the major religions and discussing this.

Suffice to say there is some overlap, but the differences vastly outweigh the similarities. VASTLY.

[Jenson71]

:eek:

Seriously -- stop posting and just read this discussion. You're just a wee bit out of your depth here.

Honest, it's true.

[Jenson71]

Here, while I get most of this stuff from my world religions book, here's a webpage on Abraham.

http://facstaff.uww.edu/rambadtd/globalp/Abraham/legacy.htm

[Jenson71]

There have to be some good websites out there comparing the major religions and discussing this.

Suffice to say there is some overlap, but the differences vastly outweigh the similarities. VASTLY.

Personally, I think they're similar enough that they should think about these similarities, sit down, have a peace agreement and work all this shit out. Stop blowing each other up, man.

But that's just opinion I guess.

[Amnorix]

Here, while I get most of this stuff from my world religions book, here's a webpage on Abraham.

http://facstaff.uww.edu/rambadtd/globalp/Abraham/legacy.htm

I briefly reviewed the website. Suffice to say that just because an actor appears in multiple movies, does not make those movies similar in any meaningful respect.

The Jews generally revere Moses above all others. Jesus, in Christianity, is the Savior, part of the Holy Trinity. I'm less knowledgeable about Islam, but Mohammad is THE Prophet, and revered above all others.

Abraham is, at best, a strong supporting actor in each of these three, very different, movies, if you will.

[Amnorix]

Personally, I think they're similar enough that they should think about these similarities, sit down, have a peace agreement and work all this shit out. Stop blowing each other up, man.

But that's just opinion I guess.

Rationality and logic, on the one hand, and religion (and particularly religious differences) on the other, usually do not mix very well.

Religion is one of the strongest forces known to man, IMHO. Something that can motivate people to tremendous acts of self-sacrifice or noble achievement, or to horrific and unspeakable crimes.

Suffice to say I only wish your opinion could come true.

[Jenson71]

I briefly reviewed the website. Suffice to say that just because an actor appears in multiple movies, does not make those movies similar in any meaningful respect.

The Jews generally revere Moses above all others. Jesus, in Christianity, is the Savior, part of the Holy Trinity. I'm less knowledgeable about Islam, but Mohammad is THE Prophet, and revered above all others.


Hmm...Mohammad is the Seal of the Prophets, the last one...mostly because he delievered the Qu'ran. And yes, revered above all others.

Islam religion considers Jesus a prophet, just as the Jews do. Muslims also believe that on the Day of Judgement, Jesus will come down to Earth.

But they all start somewhere, and scientifically that's with Abraham. Actually, Muslims believe in Adam and Eve too, although there is no scienific proof that those two ever lived, so that's a whole other topic.

The history of the three religions are the same. However, when it gets to Jesus, things start to be different. Abraham only took one set of orders from one God. They all believe in that one God, although they might call him someother name, Yahweh, Allah, Father, God, etc.

[Amnorix]

Hmm...Mohammad is the Seal of the Prophets, the last one...mostly because he delievered the Qu'ran. And yes, revered above all others.

Islam religion considers Jesus a prophet, just as the Jews do. Muslims also believe that on the Day of Judgement, Jesus will come down to Earth.

But they all start somewhere, and scientifically that's with Abraham. Actually, Muslims believe in Adam and Eve too, although there is no scienific proof that those two ever lived, so that's a whole other topic.

The history of the three religions are the same. However, when it gets to Jesus, things start to be different. Abraham only took one set of orders from one God. They all believe in that one God, although they might call him someother name, Yahweh, Allah, Father, God, etc.

None of this is news to me.

All three religions believe, generally, in the Old Testament, Genesis, etc.

[Jenson71]

None of this is news to me.

All three religions believe, generally, in the Old Testament, Genesis, etc.

Well, you sure seemed a bit shock when I said all three religions trace back to Abraham.

[Rukdafaidas]

Personally, I think they're similar enough that they should think about these similarities, sit down, have a peace agreement and work all this shit out. Stop blowing each other up, man.

But that's just opinion I guess.
What about the fighting between the Catholics and Protestants?
Hell, what about the Crips and Bloods? :)

[Amnorix]

Well, you sure seemed a bit shock when I said all three religions trace back to Abraham.

Mainly, it's fairly meaningless to point out. But congrats, you've killed this thread at least...

[Jenson71]

Mainly, it's fairly meaningless to point out. But congrats, you've killed this thread at least...

Oh well. You and Cochise quickly jumped on questioning my claim, I give you some facts, and later you say you 'already knew this'. Not my problem you started an arguement with me over something you knew I was right on.

[Cochise]

Jenson, do some research and come up with what mainstream adherents of each of the 3 religions consider to be the 'essentials', and let us know why you think that none of the three are exclusive of the other. Or, how one entity could embody all the traits that all three religions assign to it.

And also, I would ask you that if for example the Christian and Muslim gods are one and the same, why did he write in the Koran that he was one and has no son, but in the Bible that he does have a son? Can God contradict himself?

[Amnorix]

Jenson, do some research and come up with what mainstream adherents of each of the 3 religions consider to be the 'essentials', and let us know why you think that none of the three are exclusive of the other. Or, how one entity could embody all the traits that all three religions assign to it.

And also, I would ask you that if for example the Christian and Muslim gods are one and the same, why did he write in the Koran that he was one and has no son, but in the Bible that he does have a son? Can God contradict himself?

Well, Abraham is where they all started, so they're all the same...






:shake:

[Jenson71]

Your first paragraph makes my head hurt. Plez dumb down 4 stewpid ked.

Second, I would say that God did not write the Bible. Christians wrote it, the new testament. And Christians believe God has a son. Kind of like how Muslims believe that Allah is genderless, while Christians see God as male - our Father.

[Amnorix]

Your first paragraph makes my head hurt. Plez dumb down 4 stewpid ked.

Second, I would say that God did not write the Bible. Christians wrote it, the new testament. And Christians believe God has a son. Kind of like how Muslims believe that Allah is genderless, while Christians see God as male - our Father.

Can I ask you a very simple question? Review your posts and tell me what the point of your various statements are. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to figure out where you're going with all this... In other words, what is the ultimate point of your various statements, because I don't know if you're trying to argue some particular point or what.

[MOhillbilly]

The world needs jews to cook the books and the arabs to cook the oil.

[Jenson71]

Well, Abraham is where they all started, so they're all the same...


I really bothered you, huh? Sorry, but you were just a wee bit out of your depth there. I've been a Catholic all my life. Gone to Catholic schools the whole way through. I've taken classes on Hebrew scriptures, the history of Jews and Christians, and I've spent the last 4 weeks studying Islam and Judaism in world religions. I've read a thing or two. Abraham is where they all started, you've even said yourself after realizing I was right. No where have I said they're all the same.

[Jenson71]

Can I ask you a very simple question? Review your posts and tell me what the point of your various statements are. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to figure out where you're going with all this... In other words, what is the ultimate point of your various statements, because I don't know if you're trying to argue some particular point or what.

As threatening as my first post in this thread is, I suggest you read it again. The topic is about how many Arabs hate Jews. I expressed in my original post that there was obviously no need for the hate, and that the religions are actually very similar.

I used a quote from the video provided in the topic starter. "Murderers of prophets..."

[Amnorix]

I really bothered you, huh? Sorry, but you were just a wee bit out of your depth there. I've been a Catholic all my life. Gone to Catholic schools the whole way through. I've taken classes on Hebrew scriptures, the history of Jews and Christians, and I've spent the last 4 weeks studying Islam and Judaism in world religions. I've read a thing or two. Abraham is where they all started, you've even said yourself after realizing I was right. No where have I said they're all the same.

I'm glad for your faith, your discoveries and your education in religious matters. I still have no idea what relevance any of your statements are to this thread.

The three faiths we're discussing here have some common roots, of that there is no doubt. In nearly every meaningful way, however, they are different. You're fascinated with Abraham, and that's fine, but ultimately it doesn't make a lick of difference to anything going on in Israel or anywhere else in the world today.

[Amnorix]

As threatening as my first post in this thread is, I suggest you read it again. The topic is about how many Arabs hate Jews. I expressed in my original post that there was obviously no need for the hate, and that the religions are actually very similar.

I used a quote from the video provided in the topic starter. "Murderers of prophets..."

The religions are really NOT all that similar. They have some common roots, but to say they are "very similar" is going just a bit far.

[Jenson71]

The religions are really NOT all that similar. They have some common roots, but to say they are "very similar" is going just a bit far.

Really? I should think so, considering they have the exact same roots. Starting with Abraham, and [gasp] God. Which was my original claim that caused this whole thing.

[Cochise]

I really bothered you, huh? Sorry, but you were just a wee bit out of your depth there. I've been a Catholic all my life. Gone to Catholic schools the whole way through. I've taken classes on Hebrew scriptures, the history of Jews and Christians, and I've spent the last 4 weeks studying Islam and Judaism in world religions. I've read a thing or two. Abraham is where they all started, you've even said yourself after realizing I was right. No where have I said they're all the same.

So, let me make sure I have my facts straight.

You claim to be a Catholic, yet in a previous post you denied one of the essentials of Christian doctrine which is that scripture is divine rather than human in origin?

The fact that some similarities can be pointed out between the two faiths, does not make them essentially similar.

Look at it from this standpoint. Christians would have a number of 'essentials' to their faith, as would Muslims. Find out what these essentials are and see if they are compatible between the two faiths.

I gave you one example, Christianity holds the Trinity to be an essential, and Islam denies the trinity as an essential. Ask your priest if you can deny the trinity (thus denying the diety of Jesus) and still be a Christian or Catholic?

How can you reconcile the two faiths then, and claim that they have the same God, when it is logically impossible for one being to posess the attributes both assign to it?

[Amnorix]

Really? I should think so, considering they have the exact same roots.

And yet they have very little in common. The sabbath, sacraments, and fundamental beliefs of the three religions all differ in significant ways.

Look, nobody is saying that the Judaism, Christianity and Islam have less in common than, say, Christianity does with Buddhism, but honestly, they are very different in nearly all material respects.

Think of it this way -- religion ultimately is a set of beliefs, right? The BELIEFS of the three religions are VERY different.

1. when is sabbath?
2. what are the high holy days?
3. how do you celebrate the holy days?
4. what/who "is" God?
5. how should you to pray?
6. what are the sacraments?
7. how do you show your devotion to God?
8. Who were God's prophets?

All 3 differ, to a lesser or greater degree, in ALL of these areas. How in the hell can you claim they are very similar when they can't (1) pick the same day to (2) worship the same thing, (3) in the same way.

[Cochise]

The religions are really NOT all that similar. They have some common roots, but to say they are "very similar" is going just a bit far.

I think that with the Abrahamic lineage, and the fact that they recognize in name some of the same people, we've pretty much discussed all the major similarities.

[Jenson71]

Both of you have veered off into directions I never even implied in my original post. Too bad you've both wasted your time thinking of long drawn-out posts to try in some way to "prove me wrong". I'm not going there..."When's their sabbath? See! They're different!" Are you kidding me? I'm not discussing those because I never even brought those up. Feel free to talk about my original post, but none of you can deny that I was right in it, so you'd rather forget about that one, wouldn't you?

[Jenson71]

I think that with the Abrahamic lineage, and the fact that they recognize in name some of the same people, we've pretty much discussed all the major similarities.

Good. You see it my way. Next time, don't make it so hard on yourself and say that right away.

[Fairplay]

Well, you sure seemed a bit shock when I said all three religions trace back to Abraham.




I think hes right.

[Cochise]

Both of you have veered off into directions I never even implied in my original post. Too bad you've both wasted your time thinking of long drawn-out posts to try in some way to "prove me wrong". I'm not going there..."When's their sabbath? See! They're different!" Are you kidding me? I'm not discussing those because I never even brought those up. Feel free to talk about my original post, but none of you can deny that I was right in it, so you'd rather forget about that one, wouldn't you?

You said all 3 worship the same god, that is what I was taking issue with.

You still have not attempted to explain the one example I offered. How can one being simultaneously have all the attributes that these 3 religions assign to it?

[Fairplay]

So, let me make sure I have my facts straight.

You claim to be a Catholic, yet in a previous post you denied one of the essentials of Christian doctrine which is that scripture is divine rather than human in origin?

The fact that some similarities can be pointed out between the two faiths, does not make them essentially similar.

Look at it from this standpoint. Christians would have a number of 'essentials' to their faith, as would Muslims. Find out what these essentials are and see if they are compatible between the two faiths.

I gave you one example, Christianity holds the Trinity to be an essential, and Islam denies the trinity as an essential. Ask your priest if you can deny the trinity (thus denying the diety of Jesus) and still be a Christian or Catholic?

How can you reconcile the two faiths then, and claim that they have the same God, when it is logically impossible for one being to posess the attributes both assign to it?




I think hes right.

[Fairplay]

You said all 3 worship the same god, that is what I was taking issue with.

You still have not attempted to explain the one example I offered. How can one being simultaneously have all the attributes that these 3 religions assign to it?




I think hes right.

[homey]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're an idiot.

And this attitude is exactly why we will never win the war on terror. In order to fix a problem, you must understand it.

[Fairplay]

All believe in Jesus Christ, Moses, the angel Gabriel, who visited Mary and Muhammed.




It was during visiting hours.

[Fairplay]

And this attitude is exactly why we will never win the war on terror. In order to fix a problem, you must understand it.




That or say, f*ck em, get the nukes out.

[Cochise]

And this attitude is exactly why we will never win the war on terror. In order to fix a problem, you must understand it.

You still dodge the basic truth that it is only Muslims that are perpetrating the violence.

[Amnorix]

Both of you have veered off into directions I never even implied in my original post. Too bad you've both wasted your time thinking of long drawn-out posts to try in some way to "prove me wrong". I'm not going there..."When's their sabbath? See! They're different!" Are you kidding me? I'm not discussing those because I never even brought those up. Feel free to talk about my original post, but none of you can deny that I was right in it, so you'd rather forget about that one, wouldn't you?

Kindly pause in your self-righteousness. Your FIRST post on this thread was this:

Pretty interesting when they say "killers of prophets" and they're talking about Jesus -Christians savior, a Jew, and a Muslim prophet. Those three religions are all so alike, all have the same God, but yet there's so much hate.

And yet you are wrong, they are not "so alike", nor (as Cochise is arguing) have the "same God".

In another post, you stated:

All believe in Jesus Christ...

And to say they all "believe" in Jesus Christ is quite misleading, since one group thinks he's DIVINE and another does NOT. That's hardly the same BELIEF, and belief structures are what *define* a religion.

[Fairplay]

Arabs hate Jews?

This was breaking news...2000 YEARS AGO.




Longer ago then that.

[homey]

Israel stole their land kid. You think these people are strapping bombs to themselves and killing Israelis for nothing? No, they took their land. Again, got to beat a dead horse to get a point across to you all, that doesn’t justify suicide bombings. Listen to Usama and his henchmen’s tapes, they all reference our pro-Israeli stance. We should act as a moderator, not choosing sides because neither side is innocent.

[Amnorix]

Israel stole their land kid. You think these people are strapping bombs to themselves and killing Israelis for nothing? No, they took their land. Again, got to beat a dead horse to get a point across to you all, that doesn’t justify suicide bombings. Listen to Usama and his henchmen’s tapes, they all reference our pro-Israeli stance. We should act as a moderator, not choosing sides because neither side is innocent.

1. See my prior post regarding this.

2. Please note that there is no legal justification for the Palestinian's claims under internation (or other) law. Their actions since the 1940s have certainly undermined any moral claims they have on it.

3. Israel didn't "steal" their land any more than Americans stole America from the Indians, or the Rome stole Israel from the Jews, and then had it eventually stolen from them by the Arabs, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

4. We undertook an obligation to support Israel more than 60 years ago now.

[Mr. Kotter]

Israel stole their land kid. You think these people are strapping bombs to themselves and killing Israelis for nothing? No, they took their land. Again, got to beat a dead horse to get a point across to you all, that doesn’t justify suicide bombings. Listen to Usama and his henchmen’s tapes, they all reference our pro-Israeli stance. We should act as a moderator, not choosing sides because neither side is innocent.

No, no...the Arabs got their azzes kicked, by the British; then by the Israelis.

Britian and the UN sceded the land to the Israeli's after WWII. An international agreement. The Israelis won the rest of the land from the Arabs once those stupid idiots attacked them...

[beavis]

Do you think their prevailing attitude towards Jews is on par with Nazi's?
This is the first thing that popped in my head, but I'm not sure I can say yes. It's different in so many ways. Interesting question.

[Brock]

Israel stole their land kid. You think these people are strapping bombs to themselves and killing Israelis for nothing? No, they took their land.

You are living on land that used to "belong" to someone else, you hypocrite. Do you think you deserve to be blown up?

[Amnorix]

No, no...the Arabs got their azzes kicked, by the British; then by the Israelis.

Britian and the UN sceded the land to the Israeli's after WWII. An international agreement. The Israelis won the rest of the land from the Arabs once those stupid idiots attacked them...

Note well who attacked who. As SD correctly notes, the Arabs launched a war on Israel and lost. In case you missed it, parts of the United States became ours ONLY by virtue of similar historical events.

Or, Homey, should we return most of the southwest to Mexico?

[Cochise]

Israel stole their land kid. You think these people are strapping bombs to themselves and killing Israelis for nothing? No, they took their land. Again, got to beat a dead horse to get a point across to you all, that doesn’t justify suicide bombings. Listen to Usama and his henchmen’s tapes, they all reference our pro-Israeli stance. We should act as a moderator, not choosing sides because neither side is innocent.

So if you feel that the Arabs have some claim to this land, as you do, that then justifies the murder of civilians?

Are you suggesting there is a moral equivalency between a Jew simply existing in Israel and an Arab machine-gunning an elementary school class or blowing up a city bus?

[Cochise]

You are living on land that used to "belong" to someone else, you hypocrite. Do you think you deserve to be blown up?

Hey, if an indian walked into homey's house tonight and beheaded him, you can't really blame the Indian. It's half homey's fault.

[beavis]

Hey, if an indian walked into homey's house tonight and beheaded him, you can't really blame the Indian. It's half homey's fault.
pnwed

[homey]

So if you feel that the Arabs have some claim to this land, as you do, that then justifies the murder of civilians?


This is a joke, right? Or can you not read? The simple fact that you all retort like this after I pointed out numerous times how it is not the case displays the intelligence I'm dealing with here.

So, you all don't feel bad for Indians? You don't feel we did them wrong? I'd like to give you all a little more credit and believe people can't be bigoted like this. Just act tough over the internet because you get to say this that you'd never have the balls to say in real life.


Pnwed?

Sorry, I don’t speak nerd.

[beavis]

Sorry, I don’t speak nerd.
But I see that you are fluent in the language of dumbass.

[Cochise]

But I see that you are fluent in the language of dumbass.

I like how anytime you refute his talking points with an example or ask him to answer something, he comes back with 'you're a bigot' or some reply about how you're hopeless and he won't even bother with you.

[beavis]

I like how anytime you refute his talking points with an example or ask him to answer something, he comes back with 'you're a bigot' or some reply about how you're hopeless and he won't even bother with you.
Well obviously we are all but insignificant in comparison to the greatness that is homey.

[Mr. Kotter]

...So, you all don't feel bad for Indians? You don't feel we did them wrong? I'd like to give you all a little more credit and believe people can't be bigoted like this. Just act tough over the internet because you get to say this that you'd never have the balls to say in real life...

Of course, most of "feel bad" about how the Indians were treated (and slaves and Palestineans for that matter,) but WTF does that have to do with policy NOW.

I "feel" for each of those groups; so what? Are we gonna give land back to the Indians? Are we gonna pay slaves reparations? Should Israel give land back they WON in a war? Hell fuggin' NO.....what planet do you live on?

Indians lost. Blacks were freed. Palestineans and Arabs got their azzes kicked. Let's move on.

Should we forfeit Superbowl Four to the Vikings, now, because we as Chief fans "feel bad" we kicked their azzes in 1970? Of course not.

As Don Henley said once, "Get Over It." :rolleyes:

:shake:

[Cochise]

I "feel" for each of those groups; so what? Are we gonna give land back to the Indians? Are we gonna pay slaves reparations? Should Israel give land back they WON in a war? Hell fuggin' NO.....what planet do you live on?


Here you see the liberal mindset at work. Present-day actions should be governed by guilt and self-loathing. To make amends for past injustices, people not responsible should be punished, and people who were not victims rewarded.

[Soupnazi]

I find it ironic that Palestinians claim "It's our land" when there were jews and christians living there before Mohammed was even born.

As soon as the arab countries make reparations for the murder, rape and theft committed during the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, then we'll discuss how they've been wronged.

[Mr. Kotter]

Here you see the liberal mindset at work. Present-day actions should be governed by guilt and self-loathing. To make amends for past injustices, people not responsible should be punished, and people who were not victims rewarded.

Hey, I said I "feel" for them....I don't propose any real action, because that is lunacy--I agree.

I'm on YOUR side. Just demonstrating a bit of empathy.

[Mr. Kotter]

I find it ironic that Palestinians claim "It's our land" when there were jews and christians living there before Mohammed was even born.

As soon as the arab countries make reparations for the murder, rape and theft committed during the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, then we'll discuss how they've been wronged.

Exactly.

Same with the Indians, when the Sioux compensate the Comanches, and when the Comanches compensate the Kiowa, and when the Kiowa compensate the Anasazi....

THEN we can talk.

[Duck Dog]

This is a joke, right? Or can you not read? The simple fact that you all retort like this after I pointed out numerous times how it is not the case displays the intelligence I'm dealing with here.

So, you all don't feel bad for Indians? You don't feel we did them wrong? I'd like to give you all a little more credit and believe people can't be bigoted like this. Just act tough over the internet because you get to say this that you'd never have the balls to say in real life.

Of course our ancestors did the Indians wrong. I feel bad for the Indians who had to suffer through it. I don't feel guilty, I didn't do it. I don't feel bad for the Indians of today because they weren't put through it. And FWII, Indians have been granted their own land. They have also given casinos that are making some of them extremely wealthy.

[Radar Chief]

This is a joke, right? Or can you not read? The simple fact that you all retort like this after I pointed out numerous times how it is not the case displays the intelligence I'm dealing with here.

So, you all don't feel bad for Indians? You don't feel we did them wrong? I'd like to give you all a little more credit and believe people can't be bigoted like this. Just act tough over the internet because you get to say this that you'd never have the balls to say in real life.



Sorry, I don’t speak nerd.

Says the keyboard tough guy calling everyone else names. :rolleyes:

[Fairplay]

As soon as the arab countries make reparations for the murder, rape and theft committed during the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, then we'll discuss how they've been wronged.




Don't even get this started. We have a group of citizens in this country that want reparations for what happened to their forefathers over 150 years ago. That you or i had nothing to do with.

[Loki]

So what do ya'll think of this video of arab attitude toward jews?

i don't think it comes as much of a surprise... do you?