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View Full Version : ARE YOU BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE FOUR YEARS AGO?


KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 09:11 PM
In 2000, we were 7-9 with many close games lost by a thin margin. Our offense was rated #8 in the NFL (#4 in passing), our defense # 18. We had a very inexeperienced HC learning the game from the top who held steady at .500 after ZERO years as a HC.

In 2004, we are 3-8, out of the post season, sickeningly bad on defense, high in O (yards) but bad in record. We have a coach who has guided 2 teams to the SB. He is 30-28 after four years, barely above .500 (sure to sink below this season) which is where Gunther Cunningham was after 2 seasons and NO previous HCing experience.

President Reagan once asked our country this storied question; I ask you now, are you better off now than you were four years ago?

David.
12-01-2004, 09:11 PM
yeah I was shorter back then.

tk13
12-01-2004, 09:14 PM
Yeah I was about 15 pounds lighter, I was in 10 times better shape then. Now I'm an out of shape old man.

tk13
12-01-2004, 09:14 PM
You know, I really don't like having the same avatar as David, when I post right after him I always think I accidently double-posted...

David.
12-01-2004, 09:15 PM
How the Chiefs make the playoffs:
Make Ken Jennings the General Manager.

ROFL, full. blown. obsession.

KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 09:16 PM
Yeah I was about 15 pounds lighter, I was in 10 times better shape then. Now I'm an out of shape old man.

Its your own fault!
;)

tk13
12-01-2004, 09:17 PM
ROFL, full. blown. obsession.
What? He's got nothing better to do now.

Logical
12-01-2004, 09:19 PM
You know, I really don't like having the same avatar as David, when I post right after him I always think I accidently double-posted...

If you would photoshop some blood all over those animals it would give you a distinctive avy that I would find funny and Rep worthy.:thumb:

David.
12-01-2004, 09:19 PM
You know, I really don't like having the same avatar as David, when I post right after him I always think I accidently double-posted...

me too =/

Rausch
12-01-2004, 09:21 PM
Don't worry, after Gun turns our defense around next season he'll be a HC somewhere...

suds79
12-01-2004, 09:21 PM
Worse. That's for sure.

I don't think people realize just how close we are to becoming an NFL bottom feeder for quite a few years.

We have a defense that has exactly 0 bigtime playmakers & and offense that's about 2 years away from having nearly every single member ready for retirement. Worse yet, even if it isn't certain memember's time yet to hang it up, certainly their play will have dropped off by then so it won't matter.

A coach who's ready to hang it up after leading us to 1 winning season in 4 years so our HCing situation is up in the air.

And just to top it off, we have a GM who we have absolutely no faith in drafting top level talent. None. Furthermore, this GM has more job security than anyone could possibly imagine.

Basically our only hope for him to be gone is to await for our aiging owner to pass on... Nice huh? :shrug:

Dave Lane
12-01-2004, 09:23 PM
Yes we are better off. This team is 3 playmakers from major contention. You add a quality MLB, DE and CB and this team would rock. I'd see another 13-3 (heaven forbid) or 12-4 team next year. Jerry Porter or another quality WR would make us even better.

Get over it.

Dave

Dartgod
12-01-2004, 09:23 PM
Here we go again... :rolleyes:

KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 09:25 PM
Yes we are better off. This team is 3 playmakers from major contention. You add a quality MLB, DE and CB and this team would rock. I'd see another 13-3 (heaven forbid) or 12-4 team next year. Jerry Porter or another quality WR would make us even better.

Get over it.

Dave

Yawn...in 2000, we were a TB, CB and NT away from "major contention" (read: playoff appearance, something we had plenty of in the Marty years). This team is NO CLOSER than the 2000 Chiefs, say what you will.

Wile_E_Coyote
12-01-2004, 09:25 PM
shampoo

Logical
12-01-2004, 09:28 PM
shampoo

I get it

Rinse and Repeat

KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 09:29 PM
I get it

Rinse and Repeat
Good thing you get it, DV is the master hair dresser in KC... :shake:

Wile_E_Coyote
12-01-2004, 09:29 PM
I get it

Rinse and Repeat

I learned it here

Logical
12-01-2004, 09:35 PM
I learned it hereI am trying to give Proctor a break with this stupid shit since he has so honorably served our country in Iraq. But this type of nonsense was exactly the source of his problems on this BB before. I hope he gives it ups and just goes for straight up criticism or praise soon.:harumph:

Dartgod
12-01-2004, 09:37 PM
I am trying to give Proctor a break with this stupid shit since he has so honorably served our country in Iraq. But this type of nonsense was exactly the source of his problems on this BB before. I hope he gives it ups and just goes for straight up criticism or praise soon.:harumph:
Really. His obsession with Gunther rivals KC Gannon Stalker...er, I mean Duh-nese.

KC Gunther Stalker? :hmmm:


BTW, Proctor's service to our country and the dumbassery he posts here are two completely different things.

Dave Lane
12-01-2004, 09:38 PM
Yawn...in 2000, we were a TB, CB and NT away from "major contention" (read: playoff appearance, something we had plenty of in the Marty years). This team is NO CLOSER than the 2000 Chiefs, say what you will.

No we sucked! We had idiots for coaches IE the three stooges, RBBC, an moron for a QB, no character anywhere, and a porous defense that showed up when it wanted to. That team blew chunks. Other than you I can't think of a person that would trade this team for that team Gaack!

Anyone who would even consider it is getting addled or playing revisionist history. I think DV has faults but this season has been 5-6 plays from being 8-3. If you can't see that you are a bigger dolt than even I can imagine.

You are a broken record, but given your profession I guess thats what we should expect. Why don't you just shut the hell up? I'm really really tired of this nonsense. I hear the Bolts have an opening for a chaplain, say hi to Marty for me.

Dave

~doesn't like getting pissed like this but ENOUGH already.

Logical
12-01-2004, 09:39 PM
Really. His obsession with Gunther rivals KC Gannon Stalker...er, I mean Duh-nese.

KC Gunther Stalker? :hmmm:Appropriate

Logical
12-01-2004, 09:40 PM
No we sucked! We had idiots for coaches IE the three stooges, RBBC, an moron for a QB, no character anywhere, and a porous defense that showed up when it wanted to. That team blew chunks. Other than you I can't think of a person that would trade this team for that team Gaack!

Anyone who would even consider it is getting addled or playing revisionist history. I think DV has faults but this season has been 5-6 plays from being 8-3. If you can't see that you are a bigger dolt than even I can imagine.

You are a broken record, but given your profession I guess thats what we should expect. Why don't you just shut the hell up? I'm really really tired of this nonsense. I hear the Bolts have an opening for a chaplain, say hi to Marty for me.

Dave

~doesn't like getting pissed like this but ENOUGH already.

Believe it or not I agree with you completely this time Dave. Suprising huh?

Wilson
12-01-2004, 09:42 PM
John,

Allow me to offer you some advice:

You're a broken record and you're making a fool of yourself.

What has happened with the Chiefs has happend and the people who you preach this to over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.... have no more say in the outcome than you do.

Put your wishes in your little wish box like Cody did with Corey Dillion and let it go.

Stop living in the past and deal with the present.

Dave Lane
12-01-2004, 09:47 PM
Believe it or not I agree with you completely this time Dave. Suprising huh?

Hey I was Vlad 1b on Larry Johnson. I screamed almost as loud as you!

Dave

KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 09:49 PM
No we sucked! We had idiots for coaches IE the three stooges, RBBC, an moron for a QB, no character anywhere, and a porous defense that showed up when it wanted to. That team blew chunks. Other than you I can't think of a person that would trade this team for that team Gaack!

Anyone who would even consider it is getting addled or playing revisionist history. I think DV has faults but this season has been 5-6 plays from being 8-3. If you can't see that you are a bigger dolt than even I can imagine.

You are a broken record, but given your profession I guess thats what we should expect. Why don't you just shut the hell up? I'm really really tired of this nonsense. I hear the Bolts have an opening for a chaplain, say hi to Marty for me.

Dave

~doesn't like getting pissed like this but ENOUGH already.

Two words: WISHFUL THINKING.

This team is WORSE in W/Ls (where are all you W/L people NOW??? Cowards!!!!) Than under Cunningham, a rookie. This isn't about Marty or Gun, but about fans who used the most uncivil rhetoric imaginable in 2000 to denounce a coaching regime that has performed BETTER than the current SB-experienced/Rams did it/NFL anointed regime. The 2004 Chiefs are an embarassment considering the 2000 Chiefs had no SB HC, no all-NFL tailback, and faced a tough schedule. If you criticized the 2000 Chiefs (I sure did) you ought to be eating humble pie now after 4 Vermiel years and another dead last AFCW finish.

Otter
12-01-2004, 09:52 PM
Let it go Johnny, it's over.

Dave Lane
12-01-2004, 09:53 PM
Two words: WISHFUL THINKING.

This team is WORSE in W/Ls (where are all you W/L people NOW??? Cowards!!!!) Than under Cunningham, a rookie. This isn't about Marty or Gun, but about fans who used the most uncivil rhetoric imaginable in 2000 to denounce a coaching regime that has performed BETTER than the current SB-experienced/Rams did it/NFL anointed regime. The 2004 Chiefs are an embarassment considering the 2000 Chiefs had no SB HC, no all-NFL tailback, and faced a tough schedule. If you criticized the 2000 Chiefs (I sure did) you ought to be eating humble pie now after 4 Vermiel years and another dead last AFCW finish.

ZZZ

Dave

Skip Towne
12-01-2004, 09:55 PM
I can't believe I was once a KCJ backer. Shame on me.

the Talking Can
12-01-2004, 09:59 PM
Just amazing.

We have a real, live 3 year old on this board.

When will this ignorant shit stop.

You are not a martyr Johhny. You are a dumbass.

I feel sad that your family has to deal with type of obsessive behavior on a daily basis.

You probably never let them forget anything do you?

:shake:

please go away

David.
12-01-2004, 10:00 PM
ja-ja-JITTERBUG

KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 10:02 PM
Fine.
Insult me.But you can't undo the horrible record of DV & co.
The DV experiment is a failure (by the Planet's terms).
KCJ

David.
12-01-2004, 10:02 PM
A WAKE ME UP, BEFORE YA GO GO

KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 10:03 PM
I can't believe I was once a KCJ backer. Shame on me.
Please, Skip, back the 5th, 3rd, first and last place finish of the current regime. :shake:

Iowanian
12-01-2004, 10:03 PM
I'm better off than I was 4 years ago.

4 years ago...my Favorite Football team sucked. I didn't own a home, I owed Student Loans out the YingYang, had a girlfriend I didn't like, was swamped in a fairly new job.

Now....my favorite team sucks again, But I've purchased and completely remodeled a home, paid off my last stu-loan last month, paid off the home repair debt, make more money, got a new, prettier and more compatable girlfriend and married her, andhave a dog that I kind of like.

Yeah........I'm better off, even if my team sucks again.

KCJohnny
12-01-2004, 10:05 PM
I'm better off than I was 4 years ago.

4 years ago...my Favorite Football team sucked. I didn't own a home, I owed Student Loans out the YingYang, had a girlfriend I didn't like, was swamped in a fairly new job.

Now....my favorite team sucks again, But I've purchased and completely remodeled a home, paid off my last stu-loan last month, paid off the home repair debt, make more money, got a new, prettier and more compatable girlfriend and married her, andhave a dog that I kind of like.

Yeah........I'm better off, even if my team sucks again.

I rest my football case.

Good night, KC Chiefs fans.
KCJ
In the cellar with you! :)

stevieray
12-01-2004, 10:08 PM
I've had a great time watching this offense be one of the best in the league.

Iowanian
12-01-2004, 10:13 PM
I too have enjoyed watching this offense...most weeks...............but success is always more fun............like when I loved watching the defense crush teams, and the offense was putting up baseball scores.

I can't say I'm any less disappointed this year, than I was with Gunther at the helm.

It bothers me watching 4th round CBs starting and having success on MNF while our 1st rounders work at Arbys or will be.

Otter
12-01-2004, 10:19 PM
got a new, prettier and more compatable girlfriend and married her, andhave a dog that I kind of like.

There's potential for bad humor here...

Taco John
12-01-2004, 10:24 PM
Over at the Mane, RR asked us who we'd rather see winning and losing the game between the Raiders and the Chiefs. My answer was that I didn't care which loser was victorious, except for the fact that the Raiders draft better than the Chiefs, so hopefully they would win and secure a worse draft position.

philfree
12-01-2004, 10:34 PM
which is where Gunther Cunningham was after 2 seasons and NO previous HCing experience.

Gun fugged up and told his team after a loss that he was gonna quit. It might have been an attempt to motivate them but it was all wrong. I like Gun and IMO he is where he should be right now but I bet if you could ask him about it he would admit that he fugged up when he was HC of the Chiefs. The fact is Gun got the end of Marty and DV got the job of rebuilding a team that wasn't near as good as he thought when he signed on. Not an easy row to hoe for either. At this point we have both and I wanna see what they can do in one more year with them on the same team. :shrug: Call me crazy but I think it's worth one more year. And remember KCJohnny that if Carl goes so does Gun.

PhilFree :arrow:

Fairplay
12-01-2004, 10:40 PM
I took a shower today.

Frazod
12-01-2004, 10:45 PM
I've been shying away from football threads (and the BB in general) lately because thinking about the Chiefs both depresses and enrages me.

But Proctor's right - we ARE worse off. When I read an article that Vermeil plans to return next year I wanted to light the newspaper on fire. He's worse than Gun, he's worse than Marty. He built exactly half a team and let the other half go straight to hell. Now the half he built is wearing down, and we are left with nothing but the charred rubble of lies, horrible personnel and coaching decisions, and bullshit Super Bowl dreams. The offense fails just as regularly as the defense now, and it seems that every miscue is in a crucial situation. Our draft picks are shit, our FA acquisitions are shit, our season is shit. Cracks have become full blown ruptures, and now this team couldn't find a win with a compass and a divining rod. I have ZERO confidence in Dick or Carl, and hope they are both ran out of town when this abortion of a season is over. Clearly neither has what it takes to take us to the next level. We'll come out with an excellent draft choice, but if the anti-brain trust of Dick and Carl are making the picks, I don't even want to think about how they will be wasted. Trade down out of the first round for another TE, perhaps? F#CK THAT!

At least under Gun and Marty I wasn't ashamed to wear my Chiefs stuff in public, and I didn't dred Sunday like a trip to the dentist's office. Marty was a dinosaur and Gun was in over his head as a head coach, but either at their worst was better than Dick f#cking Vermeil. GET HIM AND CARL THE HELL OUT OF KANSAS CITY.

:cuss:

BigChiefFan
12-01-2004, 10:57 PM
Same tripe, different day, eh Proctor? Do you have an original thought left in that shallow brain of yours? We've all been through this before and no matter how much you spin ,wish, or pray for Marty's team, they FAILED, too. Please tell usagain how not winning the Super Bowl 7 years ago is so much better than not winning one now. Better yet-keep it to yourself.

philfree
12-01-2004, 11:01 PM
But Proctor's right - we ARE worse off.

So you figure with Gun and Grbac and this same D(cuase this years D is alot like the D we had in '99 and '20) we would of done better the last three years? Or we'd be in better shape to press on after a bad year? No way! With little Marty and Jimmy Raye? No way!


PhilFree :arrow:

Boyceofsummer
12-01-2004, 11:03 PM
I've been shying away from football threads (and the BB in general) lately because thinking about the Chiefs both depresses and enrages me.

But Proctor's right - we ARE worse off. When I read an article that Vermeil plans to return next year I wanted to light the newspaper on fire. He's worse than Gun, he's worse than Marty. He built exactly half a team and let the other half go straight to hell. Now the half he built is wearing down, and we are left with nothing but the charred rubble of lies, horrible personnel and coaching decisions, and bullshit Super Bowl dreams. The offense fails just as regularly as the defense now, and it seems that every miscue is in a crucial situation. Our draft picks are shit, our FA acquisitions are shit, our season is shit. Cracks have become full blown ruptures, and now this team couldn't find a win with a compass and a divining rod. I have ZERO confidence in Dick or Carl, and hope they are both ran out of town when this abortion of a season is over. Clearly neither has what it takes to take us to the next level. We'll come out with an excellent draft choice, but if the anti-brain trust of Dick and Carl are making the picks, I don't even want to think about how they will be wasted. Trade down out of the first round for another TE, perhaps? F#CK THAT!

At least under Gun and Marty I wasn't ashamed to wear my Chiefs stuff in public, and I didn't dred Sunday like a trip to the dentist's office. Marty was a dinosaur and Gun was in over his head as a head coach, but either at their worst was better than Dick f#cking Vermeil. GET HIM AND CARL THE HELL OUT OF KANSAS CITY.

:cuss:

If we have to lose the Gun to abort CP...........So be it.

jAZ
12-01-2004, 11:03 PM
No... 4 years ago, I didn't know anything about you and your petty attitude.

Boyceofsummer
12-01-2004, 11:04 PM
my avatar for the Planet...............give it back right now. Shit!

Manila-Chief
12-01-2004, 11:33 PM
We've all been through this before and no matter how much you spin ,wish, or pray for Marty's team, they FAILED, too.

Note: I'm not sticking up for Marty or Gun ... it was time for both of them to go. Marty just may have learned something while he was in the T.V. booth that will help him win a S.B. But, he couldn't have won one for us. And, Gun was in over his head. Now that he has learned from D.V. ... he might make a great H.C. but it was his time to go ... I'm answering the question if I'm better off?

Big Chief,

You make the correct point. The goal is for us to at least get to the S.B. ... we have not done that in how many years? Doesn't matter if we win 13 or only 3 ... both have been failures.

In fact I think that because it has been so long since we've won it all ... that until we once again win a S.B. every season is a failure. Now, once we win another one then an excellent record will mean something but not until then. 12 years without a playoff win and 30 plus years with out a championship is the marks of a poorly run team from the top down!!!!!

I don't know so much about 4 years ago, but I'm not better off (footballwise) than 3 years ago (or even last year) ... coz we were building back then. Sure there were few wins, but there was something to look forward to. We had a chance. We had hope. Only a couple of D guys to produce a decent D. But, we've done (or not done it) the building and look where we are. Is there anything to hope for?

I must say for the first time since the early 70's ... as this year started .... I really thought we were going to the S.B.

I knew we were not a 13-3 team last year. There was too much luck involved in too many of the games .... yes, it takes skills to be lucky but good solid teams win games outright ... and we didn't. But, with Gun coming in and the chance of better D players ... I thought it was our year.

No, I don't have hope for next year. Why? A team only has a few months at the top, then there is a natural decline. Too many players are at the upper end of their quality playing time. I expect Priest to retire and we don't have anyone to replace him. Trent is not the same without Priest in there.

Faz... I agree with you about Kingless ... his evaluation of talent is awful .... & that is one reason I see us being worse off now than before .... I mean back 4 years ago I had faith in his drafting abiltiy to build a team. But, instead we are stuck with terrible choices he has made on D. And, this is the year most of them ought to be becoming outstanding. I agree that it is time for him to go but Lamar will not do that. He talks Lamar's favorite subject ... a rich bottom line not great linemen!!!

All I have to look forward to is more of the same ... so, I'm worse off!!!! Just like the 80's ... maybe a few more wins but not hope of a championship.

philfree
12-01-2004, 11:47 PM
I don't know but I don't think Holmes, Roaf or Shiels will retire as long as DV is HC. If we were to change HCs this year then I think that changes. I also think Green will be gone unless we follow DV with a HC who wants to run the same offense. It's the only offense he knows and he won't be able to adjust at this point in his career.

ARE YOU BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE FOUR YEARS AGO?

I think it's the same.....the same for all Chiefs Fans. We want to win it all but it hasn't happened so we are a bunch of sad bitchy mudder fockers. Go figure!

PhilFree :arrow:

Michael Michigan
12-01-2004, 11:56 PM
Blah...Gunther Cunningham...Blah

Isn't this guy one of the Chiefs' coordinators on this 3-8 team?

Tribal Warfare
12-01-2004, 11:57 PM
John the problem has been with us for 16 years, and that problem is King Carl

Frazod
12-02-2004, 12:08 AM
BTW, I'm not saying that I was in favor of Marty or Gun continuing as head coach. I'm saying that Vermeil was NOT the answer and made things worse (while fooling us all into believing he was making things better).

And the end result is the worst season of football we've had to endure in over 15 years, worse than any season under Marty's or Gun's tenure. Whether you're piling on Proctor or not, THAT CANNOT BE DENIED OR DISPUTED. Just check the f#cking standings. AND THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SUPER BOWL YEAR. Best team Dick had ever seen. Yeah, right. 4321

Phobia
12-02-2004, 12:10 AM
BTW, I'm not saying that I was in favor of Marty or Gun continuing as head coach. I'm saying that Vermeil was NOT the answer and made things worse (while fooling us all into believing he was making things better).

And the end result is the worst season of football we've had to endure in over 15 years, worse than any season under Marty's or Gun's tenure. Whether you're piling on Proctor or not, THAT CANNOT BE DENIED OR DISPUTED. Just check the f#cking standings. AND THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SUPER BOWL YEAR. Best team Dick had ever seen. Yeah, right. 4321

Don't worry. DV will "retire" in a month.

Frazod
12-02-2004, 12:16 AM
Don't worry. DV will "retire" in a month.

Retire, drop dead, get hit by a f#cking bus. Whatever works. :#

philfree
12-02-2004, 12:27 AM
I'm saying that Vermeil was NOT the answer and made things worse (while fooling us all into believing he was making things better).

So who was that HC that we missed out on that would of put us in a better position? Or win 13 games against any schedule? Butch Davis? Herman Edwards? Marvin Lewis? As far as being fooled........."It'll shine when it shines". When that will be? Who knows?!

PhilFree :arrow:

Frazod
12-02-2004, 12:31 AM
So who was that HC that we missed out on that would of put us in a better position? Or win 13 games against any schedule? Butch Davis? Herman Edwards? Marvin Lewis? As far as being fooled........."It'll shine when it shines". When that will be? Who knows?!

PhilFree :arrow:

I personally wanted Capers. But I was not consulted.

Logical
12-02-2004, 12:50 AM
Don't worry. DV will "retire" in a month.

I would only be in favor of that if it caused CP to retire as a result.

philfree
12-02-2004, 01:02 AM
I personally wanted Capers. But I was not consulted.

He's done good with the expansion teams but they are handed a loaded deck. I'm not against him but I don't see why he would've been better here then with what we have now. :shrug:

PhilFree :arrow:

Otter
12-02-2004, 04:57 AM
Don't worry. DV will "retire" in a month.

I have to be in the presence of a clown to feel uncomfortable but that picture is definately not pleasent.

I fart in your general direction.

Otter
12-02-2004, 05:07 AM
BTW, I'm not saying that I was in favor of Marty or Gun continuing as head coach. I'm saying that Vermeil was NOT the answer and made things worse (while fooling us all into believing he was making things better).

And the end result is the worst season of football we've had to endure in over 15 years, worse than any season under Marty's or Gun's tenure. Whether you're piling on Proctor or not, THAT CANNOT BE DENIED OR DISPUTED. Just check the f#cking standings. AND THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SUPER BOWL YEAR. Best team Dick had ever seen. Yeah, right. 4321

John is right as far as the wins and losses go. But there are valid reasons Gun is no longer the head coach. Most noticable to me was that he was a public relations nightmare and he was buckeling under the pressure.

He's a damn good NFL defensive coordinator, that's nothing to be ashamed of, there are only 32 in the entire world.

Besides, it's just time to get over it.

KCTitus
12-02-2004, 06:07 AM
My well being has nothing to do with the status of a football team...

nmt1
12-02-2004, 06:14 AM
I'm better off because no one named Marty or Gunther is the HC of the Chiefs.

cadmonkey
12-02-2004, 06:16 AM
Four years ago my insides didn't hurt so much.

KCJohnny
12-02-2004, 06:16 AM
I personally wanted Capers. But I was not consulted.

That's what's wrong with this team. Big decisions are made without consulting with Frazod!!

:D

Braincase
12-02-2004, 06:22 AM
We're better off because we have Dante Hall and not Tamarick Vanover.

Skip Towne
12-02-2004, 06:25 AM
Please, Skip, back the 5th, 3rd, first and last place finish of the current regime. :shake:
It's not about the finishes, John, it's about the way you are acting.

InChiefsHell
12-02-2004, 06:33 AM
Seems to me the Chiefs showed steady improvement under DV, they went 6-10, 8-8 and 13-3. That was good. Then, this clusterf*ck of a season hit, and now you think we are worse off than when we had NO HOPE AT ALL under Gunther as HC...???

I don't think so...

The team is struggling, but I don't think you can compare this group to 4 and 5 years ago. Yes, we're better off...

...but we're still not going to the SB...

Braincase
12-02-2004, 07:40 AM
Seems to me the Chiefs showed steady improvement under DV, they went 6-10, 8-8 and 13-3. That was good. Then, this clusterf*ck of a season hit, and now you think we are worse off than when we had NO HOPE AT ALL under Gunther as HC...???

I don't think so...

The team is struggling, but I don't think you can compare this group to 4 and 5 years ago. Yes, we're better off...

...but we're still not going to the SB...

Also keep in mind that Gunther had to deal with the death of the heart & soul of the team.

KCJohnny
12-02-2004, 09:59 AM
Also keep in mind that Gunther had to deal with the death of the heart & soul of the team.

THAT is a good point...

KCJohnny
12-02-2004, 10:04 AM
Seems to me the Chiefs showed steady improvement under DV, they went 6-10, 8-8 and 13-3. That was good. Then, this clusterf*ck of a season hit, and now you think we are worse off than when we had NO HOPE AT ALL under Gunther as HC...???

I don't think so...

The team is struggling, but I don't think you can compare this group to 4 and 5 years ago. Yes, we're better off...

...but we're still not going to the SB...

Y'know, when you put it like that, it is THIS season that is an anomaly. This is a good perspective and should bode well for next season. This offense is getting old, however, and I wouldn't expect it to be intact in 2006.

Per the hope issue: that's subjective. Gun needed to be fired, or at least forced to get some sleep, but the results haven't been better under DV. I think Vermiel is a great man for hiring Cunningham again and I think Gun is very humble to accept the job from hell.

FWIW, this thread was a light-hearted barb at those who boasted that Vermiel would far exceed the previous decade of performance. I DO like Vermiel and I don't want him to retire yet. He gives KC its best shot at a title, especially with Gun on the staff. Its just not true that this team has performed any better than Gun's team, and has yet to attain to the level that Marty got it to.

I understand certain members' irritation with my provocations.

Go Chiefs!
KCJohnny

KC Jones
12-02-2004, 10:34 AM
In the NFL you rarely make a continuous improvement year to year. As a matter of fact, I'd go as far to say it's nearly impossible given the differences in schedule difficulty, player turnover, and injuries. Many franchises follow up good years with bad and then have another good year. That used to happen around here even when Marty was our coach (remember the old even years suck odd years rock cycle in the 90's?). So on a bad year like this one, you can look back 4 years and say we're not any better. What about last year? We looked a hell of a lot better in 2003 than in 1999. In fact, early last year our defense even looked quite improved. Our defense and special teams won the first 5-6 games last year while our offense was sputtering along attempting to get back into the synch they had been in the previous year.

DV & co. deserve one last year with everything they've built to see if they can get it over the hump. They shook lose the thug hangover we had with guys like Andre Rison, Bam Morris, and Tamarick Vanover. They've built one of the NFLs most prolific offenses. If we fall short again next year, then it will be time to tear it up and do a really deep retooling. Unfortunately, the retooling will avoid the area that needs it the most - the front office. Even if Carl steps down next year he won't step away, and the vast majority of his team of managers, scouts, etc. will still be there.

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 10:43 AM
Its just not true that this team has performed any better than Gun's team, and has yet to attain to the level that Marty got it to.

KCJohnny

What do you call 13-4 last year? Gunther NEVER had a 13-4 team.

stevieray
12-02-2004, 10:48 AM
Could this team beat Guns teams?



Yes.

KCJohnny
12-02-2004, 10:52 AM
What do you call 13-4 last year? Gunther NEVER had a 13-4 team.

Gunther never had a THIRD season, either. Both coaches after 2 seasons:
Gun: 16-16
DV 14-18

That's the only fair way to compare them. I mean, c'mon dude, you're comparing a SB HOF caliber coach to a first time rookie HC.

Bearcat
12-02-2004, 10:52 AM
In the NFL you rarely make a continuous improvement year to year.

This was pretty much my thought when I read the title... well, more along the lines of "What kind of stupid #$*%)%$ question is that?!?!"

Here in 2004, it's hard to compare progress over 2 years.... 4 is absolutely absurd. Was Carolina better off last year than two years ago? What about this year than two years ago? Seattle? Atlanta?

Hell, just take a look at your team, Johnny... 1 win, 8 wins, 4 wins. Are you better off than you were two years ago?

jAZ
12-02-2004, 10:53 AM
Is it possible to have KCJ's name changed to "Foul Weather Fan" or "Johnny Come Lately"???

KCJohnny
12-02-2004, 10:53 AM
Could this team beat Guns teams?



Yes.

Could Gun's teams beat this team? Everyone else has. The closest thing we have to compare it to is the 54-34 shellacking of the 2000 Rams (still mostly intact from DV's Rams) by Gun's Chiefs.

Amnorix
12-02-2004, 10:55 AM
Definitely. In the last 4 years the Patriots have won 2 Super Bowls and the Red Sox finally ended a ridiculous drought by not only winning the WS, but coming back from 3 games down in a 7 game series against the hated Yankees and pinning the "All Time Choker" tag on last year's Yankees team. PBJ PBJ


err...this post probably isn't going to make me very popular around here, is it...? :hmmm:

stevieray
12-02-2004, 10:57 AM
Could Gun's teams beat this team? Everyone else has. The closest thing we have to compare it to is the 54-34 shellacking of the 2000 Rams (still mostly intact from DV's Rams) by Gun's Chiefs.

Trent Green threw 3td's in that game, after Warner was injured.

Bearcat
12-02-2004, 10:57 AM
and has yet to attain to the level that Marty got it to.



So, I don't have the numbers on me... how many more playoff games does DV have to lose before he gets to that level?

htismaqe
12-02-2004, 10:59 AM
I would only be in favor of that if it caused CP to retire as a result.

:bravo:

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 11:02 AM
Gunther never had a THIRD season, either. Both coaches after 2 seasons:
Gun: 16-16
DV 14-18

That's the only fair way to compare them. I mean, c'mon dude, you're comparing a SB HOF caliber coach to a first time rookie HC.
That's not what you said, You said, and I quote "Its just not true that this team has performed any better than Gun's team, and has yet to attain to the level that Marty got it to."

Regardless of the time frame which you didn't stipulate, clearly a 13-4 season is head and shoulders better than anything Gunther did. Keep spinning though, it's fun seeing you actually try and sell the shit sandwich you are serving. Nobodies buying, but you keep on telling yourself there has to be a demand for your shit sandwich.

htismaqe
12-02-2004, 11:03 AM
the 2000 Chiefs had no SB HC, no all-NFL tailback, and faced a tough schedule.

Vermeil didn't just walk into the room and pick up a feature back. Only Marty has to do that.

Vermeil went out and GOT ONE. Gunther could have done the same, if he had any clue what a featuer back looked like.

ChiTown
12-02-2004, 12:04 PM
You are such a FN troll. Insult intended......

Otter
12-02-2004, 12:07 PM
Definitely. In the last 4 years the Patriots have won 2 Super Bowls and the Red Sox finally ended a ridiculous drought by not only winning the WS, but coming back from 3 games down in a 7 game series against the hated Yankees and pinning the "All Time Choker" tag on last year's Yankees team. PBJ PBJ


err...this post probably isn't going to make me very popular around here, is it...? :hmmm:

Don't forget to kick the dog on the way out.

jAZ
12-02-2004, 12:59 PM
Could Gun's teams beat this team? Everyone else has. The closest thing we have to compare it to is the 54-34 shellacking of the 2000 Rams (still mostly intact from DV's Rams) by Gun's Chiefs.
You might also compare it to our 56-10 ass kicking of a weak offense/strong defensive Atlanta team...

It's pointless to do, and Johnny is a punk-bitch for only showing up like a Denver troll when the team is down.