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View Full Version : Are you ready for some Defense?


Gaz
12-02-2004, 07:39 AM
Personally, I like the idea of Gunther’s “attack the pencil neck” scheme with some new players. I fully expect the draft to be all about the D [Rolle or Johnson, anyone?], with some FA action [MLB?] on the side.

How about you?

xoxo~
Gaz
Would like to be excited about the Defense again.

Andoverer
12-02-2004, 07:50 AM
If this off season isn't all about defensive upgrading, I don't know what it would take to get em off the pot...

alpha_omega
12-02-2004, 07:52 AM
I say yes...
2004 is done...time to get excited about '05

Otter
12-02-2004, 08:31 AM
It's the Chief Fan motto: "just wait till next year".

I think if we good land good talent at DE, MLB and CB the defense could be dramaticly improved.

What do we do with the current players under contract though? That is the question, isn't it?!??!

Brock
12-02-2004, 08:31 AM
I thought engineers were supposed to be smart.

Gaz
12-02-2004, 08:35 AM
I thought engineers were supposed to be smart.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there is an insult buried in there.

xoxo~
Gaz
Might be over-sensitive.

Chief Henry
12-02-2004, 08:37 AM
Can I get an AMEN for BROCK..... :)

Dr. Facebook Fever
12-02-2004, 09:08 AM
2005....I'm cautiously optimistic.

KCTitus
12-02-2004, 09:26 AM
Speaking of D, Ive noticed somewhat disturbingly over the last couple of games that the secondary is not playing as much man coverage or at least it's my guess, because the opposing WR is typically open by at least 5 yards each time he recieves the ball.

Im not sure if having an all world rookie CB would be able to do much better when he's 5 yards away from the receiver as he catches the ball.

This doesnt appear to be the case for opposing defenses...typically TG has been completely mounted by the LB or CB covering him and Morton or Kennison are typically playing jump ball with the corner when the ball nears.

Maybe better players will change this, I guess I'd like to believe that, but if the coverage KC plays requires that the defense give all receivers a 5 yard cushion, I dont think the defense is going to improve.

patteeu
12-02-2004, 09:32 AM
Yes, but we also need a WR and the rest of the offense is getting very old. I'm in favor of a balanced draft and a defensive emphasis in free agency.

alpha_omega
12-02-2004, 09:46 AM
...but if the coverage KC plays requires that the defense give all receivers a 5 yard cushion, I dont think the defense is going to improve.

Excellent point!

Gaz
12-02-2004, 11:01 AM
I hope that the zone coverage is a function of the players and not a change in ‘tude by Gunther.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders what Gunther will do with his new players.

Iowanian
12-02-2004, 12:55 PM
I like Gunther's scheme for the most part.

I'd like to see it with a new DE in Hicks' spot, a new body filling Holliday's roster spot....new LB, New OLB(Barber) at least 1 top notch CB and a Safety.

ROYC75
12-02-2004, 02:02 PM
That would be a change..... ROFL

HC_Chief
12-02-2004, 02:04 PM
Add a CB, DE, 2 LBs (keep Fujita) and we're set! :thumb:

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 02:56 PM
Add a CB, DE, 2 LBs (keep Fujita) and we're set! :thumb:Fujita is a FA. I say let him walk. I'd prefer to give his money to somebody that can tackle. Fujita is quick, but he's still lost out there and whiffs on several plays. We need quality and Fujita has lived up to his 5th rounder label, no more than that, IMO. We need new blood.

Hydrae
12-02-2004, 03:04 PM
I would be excited except I am not sure that one off season will be enough to fix all the problems.

htismaqe
12-02-2004, 03:05 PM
Fujita is a FA. I say let him walk. I'd prefer to give his money to somebody that can tackle. Fujita is quick, but he's still lost out there and whiffs on several plays. We need quality and Fujita has lived up to his 5th rounder label, no more than that, IMO. We need new blood.

Fujita is a restricted free agent. It won't cost much to keep him.

Calcountry
12-02-2004, 03:10 PM
We need to keep laying down this year as well. Make the Raiders think they are good by letting them win by 3 points. We can't draft high enough in this years draft.

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 03:12 PM
Fujita is a restricted free agent. It won't cost much to keep him. As long as no one wants him, he should be cheap, but even then I'd rather relegate him to back-up and special teams. I want a sure-tackler and Fujita, IMO isn't that guy.

Pants
12-02-2004, 03:17 PM
As long as no one wants him, he should be cheap, but even then I'd rather relegate him to back-up and special teams. I want a sure-tackler and Fujita, IMO isn't that guy.

I think Fujita is excellent. He's the only guy who CAN tackle on our defense. He hits like a mother****er, and he is damn smart. I say keep him.

bogie
12-02-2004, 03:18 PM
We need to keep laying down this year as well. Make the Raiders think they are good by letting them win by 3 points. We can't draft high enough in this years draft.

I can never route for a Raider win, never.

BigChiefFan
12-02-2004, 03:23 PM
I think Fujita is excellent. He's the only guy who CAN tackle on our defense. He hits like a mother****er, and he is damn smart. I say keep him. Fujita hits like a mofo? We must be watching two different games, because our LBers have struggled all year long and Fujita's been a starter.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2004, 03:28 PM
Yeah. Of all the LBs I thought Beisel (sp?) played the best (when he's in). Hell, even when hes out he plays better than our "other" MLB.

Logical
12-02-2004, 05:17 PM
There is far too much wrong with our defense for it to be fixed on only one offseason. We will still suck next year the only question is how badly.


Note: This is why wasting the last offseason was such a complete and total travesty.

Logical
12-02-2004, 05:21 PM
I like Gunther's scheme for the most part.

I'd like to see it with a new DE in Hicks' spot, a new body filling Holliday's roster spot....new LB, New OLB(Barber) at least 1 top notch CB and a Safety.

If we could get all that we could indeed be quite a bit better. But there is no way I can see us 6 quality players in one offseason.

Skip Towne
12-02-2004, 05:31 PM
If we could get all that we could indeed be quite a bit better. But there is no way I can see us 6 quality players in one offseason.
What? Have you no faith in Carl?

go bowe
12-02-2004, 05:33 PM
If we could get all that we could indeed be quite a bit better. But there is no way I can see us 6 quality players in one offseason.and you don't even have to be a pessimist to see that this is true...

no way we come up with 6 quality players, let alone in one offseason...

especially when dv won't play rookies, which makes the draft an unlikely place to find any of these 6 starters...

2bikemike
12-02-2004, 05:47 PM
IMHO I think that we would be ok with 3 impact players on Defense.
They would have to be leaders on the field. They would raise the rest of the defense around them. So there fore it would be a vet.

We need one playmaking impact player at each of these positions.

Corner, Linebacker, DE.

This just addresses the defense. I think we need a little tweaking of the offense as well.

Hydrae
12-02-2004, 05:55 PM
IMHO I think that we would be ok with 3 impact players on Defense.
They would have to be leaders on the field. They would raise the rest of the defense around them. So there fore it would be a vet.

We need one playmaking impact player at each of these positions.

Corner, Linebacker, DE.

This just addresses the defense. I think we need a little tweaking of the offense as well.


Oh, you mean McCleon, Barber and Holliday? :banghead:

go bowe
12-02-2004, 05:56 PM
IMHO I think that we would be ok with 3 impact players on Defense.
They would have to be leaders on the field. They would raise the rest of the defense around them. So there fore it would be a vet.

We need one playmaking impact player at each of these positions.

Corner, Linebacker, DE.

This just addresses the defense. I think we need a little tweaking of the offense as well.3 players sounds a little more realistic, but as to whether or not they will be "impact" players, well who knows?

we haven't done so well in acquiring fa's who were impact players lately...

why should we expect this coming offseason to be any different than this last offseason?

after all, carl and his incompetent scouting department will still be doing the drafting and trying to get 2d tier fa's to come here...

2bikemike
12-02-2004, 05:56 PM
Oh, you mean McCleon, Barber and Holliday? :banghead:

:Lin:

2bikemike
12-02-2004, 05:58 PM
3 players sounds a little more realistic, but as to whether or not they will be "impact" players, well who knows?

we haven't done so well in acquiring fa's who were impact players lately...

why should we expect this coming offseason to be any different than this last offseason?

after all, carl and his incompetent scouting department will still be doing the drafting and trying to get 2d tier fa's to come here...

Damn can't draft for crap and our choices in FA suck! Were officially fugged! :mad: :banghead: :cuss:

go bowe
12-02-2004, 05:58 PM
Oh, you mean McCleon, Barber and Holliday? :banghead:it do give ya pause, don't it?

we haven't exactly done a bang up job of acquiring talenter fa's, have we?

go bowe
12-02-2004, 05:59 PM
Damn can't draft for crap and our choices in FA suck! Were officially fugged! :mad: :banghead: :cuss:we've been officially fugged for so long that it's beginning to feel normal... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Bowser
12-02-2004, 06:02 PM
I'm with 2Bike. If we can get a player who can shine at every "level" of the defense, we will be vastly improved. Gunther's defense revolves around linebackers who can make plays, and corners who can cover. And while our corners aren't all-pro, they have had no help from any other "group" on our D. I think Jared Allen has a chance to be a real player very soon, but few others in the front seven have shown any such promise.

On the flip side, Vlad could be right. Even if we get the "right" players in the "right" positions, it could be two to three years down the road before they becoming dominate. The one thing that I hang my hopes on is the Jacksonville turned their D around in one season, and I think we can all agree that the talent on Jax's D is far superior to our own.

go bowe
12-02-2004, 06:11 PM
I'm with 2Bike. If we can get a player who can shine at every "level" of the defense, we will be vastly improved. Gunther's defense revolves around linebackers who can make plays, and corners who can cover. And while our corners aren't all-pro, they have had no help from any other "group" on our D. I think Jared Allen has a chance to be a real player very soon, but few others in the front seven have shown any such promise.

On the flip side, Vlad could be right. Even if we get the "right" players in the "right" positions, it could be two to three years down the road before they becoming dominate. The one thing that I hang my hopes on is the Jacksonville turned their D around in one season, and I think we can all agree that the talent on Jax's D is far superior to our own.not only do they have much better talent, but the guys who did the drafting and signing of fa's for them actually seem to know what they're doing...

(unlike those idjits on arrowhead drive... :( )

Bowser
12-02-2004, 06:12 PM
not only do they have much better talent, but the guys who did the drafting and signing of fa's for them actually seem to know what they're doing...

(unlike those idjits on arrowhead drive... :( )

Well, then there's that..........

:shake:

Warrior5
12-02-2004, 07:02 PM
There is absolutely no logical or sane way the Chiefs DON'T go D in the off-season, but DV is going to have to violate his "best player available" mentality in order to do it.

The Chiefs won't get a top 10 D in just one year, but they have to be able to get something better than what's on the field now.


Again, hoping for at least a middle-ranked D next year.

Bowser
12-02-2004, 07:06 PM
There is absolutely no logical or sane way the Chiefs DON'T go D in the off-season, but DV is going to have to violate his "best player available" mentality in order to do it.

The Chiefs won't get a top 10 D in just one year, but they have to be able to get something better than what's on the field now.


Again, hoping for at least a middle-ranked D next year.

I look forward to the epic meltdown of the Planet when we take Mike Williams or Braylon Edwards with our #1 next April.

digi2fish
12-02-2004, 08:07 PM
either the Sun or Carl burned out will do.
:p

philfree
12-02-2004, 09:23 PM
The Chiefs won't get a top 10 D in just one year, but they have to be able to get something better than what's on the field now.

We've been working on the D for 3 years so if the D does improve to top ten it didn't happen in jsut 1 year. One thing about Gun is he said we will stop the run. The last 9 games we have held teams to just under 100 yards per game. If we can fix our coverage problems we could very easly improve to top ten. Part of that will be not getting penalties when it's 3rd down. We've done that way to much.

PhilFree :arrow:

Gaz
12-03-2004, 05:36 AM
philfree is correct. This will be the second year of the Defensive overhaul. Gunther indicated that priority #1 is to stop the run and his D has done a pretty good job of that. Now we need to improve the wretched pass Defense [so The Enemy has a reason to run the ball again].

That is doable this off-season, IMO.

xoxo~
Gaz
Relentlessly optimistic.

patteeu
12-03-2004, 08:06 AM
In the press conference when Gunther came home to Kansas City, he made this statement:

The first thing you do is stop the run, as that takes the heart out of an opponent. Then you take out his soul, the quarterback.'

With the exception of a few big plays, especially early in the season, Gunther's D has made good strides toward that first goal this season. I predict that the Chief's top priority in the offseason will be to find the key to an improved pass rush. Whether that will be in the form of a DE or a Linebacker or whether it will be in FA or the draft, I don't know. But we aren't starting from scratch here. The work of rebuilding this defense is already in progress as Gaz and Philfree have mentioned, IMO.

Chiefnj
12-03-2004, 08:12 AM
Nope, I'm not excited about it at all.

The draft never goes as the fans expect it. The draft in recent years has been extremely poor; that's a fact. All of a sudden the Chiefs are going to get multiple impact players in a single draft that will not only allow them to crawl out of the basement of the division, but win a couple of playoff games and make it to the Super Bowl??

As far as free agency the Chiefs don't usually win the bidding wars for the highly regarded skills position players. This year there are fewer CBs than in past years which doesn't help. When is the last time, on defense, the Chiefs were able to bring in multiple defensive free agents who made a big positive impact??

Finally, I still don't think the Chiefs are all that good against the run. I think the "success" is more of a result of having teams go pass happy on them. I think if teams focussed on the run, like they do the pass, they'd exploit the poor LB's.

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 08:40 AM
Nope, I'm not excited about it at all.

The draft never goes as the fans expect it. The draft in recent years has been extremely poor; that's a fact. All of a sudden the Chiefs are going to get multiple impact players in a single draft that will not only allow them to crawl out of the basement of the division, but win a couple of playoff games and make it to the Super Bowl??

As far as free agency the Chiefs don't usually win the bidding wars for the highly regarded skills position players. This year there are fewer CBs than in past years which doesn't help. When is the last time, on defense, the Chiefs were able to bring in multiple defensive free agents who made a big positive impact??

Finally, I still don't think the Chiefs are all that good against the run. I think the "success" is more of a result of having teams go pass happy on them. I think if teams focussed on the run, like they do the pass, they'd exploit the poor LB's.

I'm in the same boat as you.

I'm holding out hope that Vermeil gets disgusted and retires, Peterson decides to go with him, and the rest of the front office/coaching staff is dismissed when the new GM and head coach come in.

Until that happens, I'm planning on the draft being a horrible, gut-wrenching affair.

KCTitus
12-03-2004, 08:42 AM
Until that happens, I'm planning on the draft being a horrible, gut-wrenching affair.

Well, it makes for some good entertainment here, though.

Rain Man
12-03-2004, 08:43 AM
I'm excitedly looking forward to having an average defense.

ChiTown
12-03-2004, 08:46 AM
Nope

I'm done with this entire regime. The holes on this defense are inexcusable and lay at the coaches and GM's feet. It's not really Gun's fault, but I was never a big fan of his anway.

It just sickens me to listen to Vermiel wash his hands of this D, as if that's someone elses department. I'm sure he's a "swell" guy to play for, but I just don't trust a guy that continually turns a blind eye to his weakest link. jmho

Gaz
12-03-2004, 09:00 AM
Peterson returns.
Vermeil returns.

Sucks to be you guys, eh?

xoxo~
Gaz
Decided that life as a blind, duped homer is better than the bitter alternative.

ChiTown
12-03-2004, 09:04 AM
Peterson returns.
Vermeil returns.

Sucks to be you guys, eh?

xoxo~
Gaz
Decided that life as a blind, duped homer is better than the bitter alternative.


I'm just ready for some balance. I'm just not sure that the combo Peterson and Vermiel (and staff) are capable of supplying that on the field.

To be 3-8 at this point, there just aren't any excuses for that, IMO.

patteeu
12-03-2004, 09:19 AM
Nope, I'm not excited about it at all.

The draft never goes as the fans expect it. The draft in recent years has been extremely poor; that's a fact. All of a sudden the Chiefs are going to get multiple impact players in a single draft that will not only allow them to crawl out of the basement of the division, but win a couple of playoff games and make it to the Super Bowl??

As far as free agency the Chiefs don't usually win the bidding wars for the highly regarded skills position players. This year there are fewer CBs than in past years which doesn't help. When is the last time, on defense, the Chiefs were able to bring in multiple defensive free agents who made a big positive impact??

Finally, I still don't think the Chiefs are all that good against the run. I think the "success" is more of a result of having teams go pass happy on them. I think if teams focussed on the run, like they do the pass, they'd exploit the poor LB's.

I wish they would try because their killing us through the air.

htismaqe
12-03-2004, 09:24 AM
Peterson returns.
Vermeil returns.

Sucks to be you guys, eh?

xoxo~
Gaz
Decided that life as a blind, duped homer is better than the bitter alternative.


Being ready for this regime to end and being bitter do not go hand-in-hand.

Hell, some here would consider me the King of Homers, and I've been ready for Carl to leave for almost a decade.

ROYC75
12-03-2004, 10:18 AM
IMHO, the run #'s are only better due to the fact that anybody can throw the ball and get chunks of yards against us, which they are choosing to do.

This D has alot of problems, it's going to take, IMHO about 4 quality players to upgrade it to be middle of the road.

Gaz
12-04-2004, 07:10 AM
DE
Allen, Hicks
Okay, I am not thrilled. Allen is a fine pass-rusher, but his run skills are not impressive at this point. Still, he is young. Hicks is adequate. I would like to see an upgrade, but FA DEs are SO expensive that I do not see this happening. Maybe Wilkerson will show something.

DT
Siavii, Sims
I like this combination.

LB
Caver, Mitchell, Fujita
The weakest spot in our Defense, IMO. It is too soon to give up on Mitchell, but he has to start reading better. Looks to me like he is consistently out of position. Caver is a backup to Barber, who was a disappointment. Beisel has the determination, but lacks the physical skill [much like Maslowski]. I think Fujita will be better with some better company at LB. We need both MLB, & OLB. Either OLB or CB will be our 1st Round pick. MLB will have to come from FA [$$$].

CB
Warfield, Bartee
We have half of a decent CB corps. I had high hopes for Bartee under Gunther [since Gun wanted him in the first place], but I have seen improvement in only [1] game. The brief glimpses of Battle and Sapp do not inspire confidence. We need another CB. Either OLB or CB will be our 1st Round pick.

S
Wesley, Harts
I can live with this.

So, give Gunther an upgrade at MLB via FA and draft a starting CB & OLB.

Doable?

xoxo~
Gaz
Expects the Chiefs to sink some capital into the D.