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View Full Version : Barry Bonds finally admits to using steroids ...is Mark McGuire Next?


jAZ
12-03-2004, 01:03 AM
Everyone associated with the scandal so far has ties to the Bay Area. Mac has to be next in line to confess.

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/10327959.htm

Posted on Fri, Dec. 03, 2004

Bonds reportedly told grand jury he unwittingly used steroids

By ELLIOTT ALMOND, PETE CAREY and MARK EMMONS

San Jose Mercury News


SAN JOSE, Calif. - In the space of 24 hours, the BALCO Laboratories scandal has engulfed three of the biggest names in sports - the Giants' Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi of the New York Yankees, and track and field star Marion Jones.

In a story posted on its Web site Thursday night, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that Bonds last winter told a grand jury investigating the Burlingame, Calif., clinic that he took clear and cream substances but believed them to be flaxseed oil and an arthritis treatment.

Hours earlier, ABC released a transcript of an interview with BALCO founder Victor Conte Jr. in which he says he created an illegal drug program for Jones weeks before she won an unprecedented five track and field medals at the Sydney Olympics in 2000.

And Wednesday night, the Chronicle reported that Giambi told the grand jury he received steroids from Greg Anderson, a co-defendant - along with Conte and two other men - in the BALCO criminal case.

According to the Chronicle's account, Bonds told the grand jury that Anderson, his personal trainer, gave him "clear and cream substances" during the 2003 season. Anderson, Bonds said, told him they were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and an arthritis cream.

Prosecutors allege that BALCO executives gave athletes substances called "the clear," a steroid taken orally, and "the cream," a steroid rubbed onto the body.

"I never asked Greg" about what the products contained, Bonds testified. "When he said it was flaxseed oil, I just said, `Whatever.'"

He continued: "It was in the ballpark...in front of everybody. I mean, all the reporters, my teammates. I mean, they all saw it. I didn't hide it."

Bonds denied using drugs during his testimony when prosecutors showed him documents indicating he had taken performance-enhancing substances over a three-year period, the Chronicle reported.

According to the report, the documents detailed Bonds' use of human growth hormone, Depo-Testosterone, THG, a testosterone gel, insulin and Clomid, a female fertility drug that is supposed to increase the effectiveness of testosterone.

The report said the documents included a laboratory test result that could reflect steroid use and what appeared to be schedules of drug use with billing information.

According to the transcript, Bonds said he had no knowledge of calendars and other records indicating he had used drugs, the newspaper reported. It said Bonds said he had never paid Anderson for steroids and had never knowingly used them.

The paper also reported that Bonds said he thought Anderson gave him legal products to treat his arthritis and fatigue. According to Bonds' testimony, Anderson brought the substances into the Giants' clubhouse at "once a homestand."

"Barry's testimony is what it is," said Michael Rains, Bonds' lawyer. "Anybody whose grand jury testimony is leaked is a victim."

Tonight, for an hour at least, the focus shifts to Conte and Jones. According to transcripts of ABC's "20/20" news program, Conte says he watched the track star inject herself with human growth hormone (hGH) after he taught her how.

Jones' lawyer, Richard N. Nichols, on Thursday denied the charges.

According to the ABC transcripts, the Burlingame nutritionist claims:

_Jones used the designer steroid THG, the blood-boosting drug EPO, hGH and insulin.

_Half the players in baseball are using anabolic steroids, and 80 percent are taking stimulants.

_He created a program, including illegal drugs, to develop Tim Montgomery, Jones' boyfriend, into a world-record sprinter. The story of how that worked was outlined by the Mercury News in May.

Conte told the news program that he worked with Jones from just before the Sydney Games to September 2001. Regarding hGH, he said, "After I instructed her how to do it and dialed it up, she did the injection with me sitting right there next to her."

Nichols questioned Conte's credibility.

"Victor Conte is a man facing a 42-count federal indictment, while Marion Jones is one of America's most decorated female athletes," he said in a prepared statement. "Mr. Conte's statements have been wildly contradictory, while Marion Jones has steadfastly maintained her position throughout: She has never, ever used performance-enhancing drugs."

Conte is one of four Bay Area men facing charges of money laundering and distributing illegal drugs to elite athletes. His lawyer, Robert Holley, declined to comment Thursday.

Conte justified his actions during the ABC interview, saying, "It's not cheating if everybody is doing it - and if you've got the knowledge that that's what everyone is doing, and those are the real rules of the game, then you're not cheating."

In his grand jury testimony, Giambi admitted using steroids given to him by Anderson. The leaked testimony was published the day Conte and his lawyers requested a hearing over pre-trial publicity that they allege was generated by the government.

According to the report, Giambi testified that he met Anderson in November 2002 in Japan when Anderson accompanied Bonds on a tour by major league baseball players. Giambi asked, "Hey, what are the things you're doing with Barry?"

By 2003, according to the account of the testimony, Anderson was sending Giambi packets of drugs that included testosterone, THG and various pills. Giambi said Anderson described using THG and a testosterone cream as an "alternative" to injectable steroids, according to the report.

Anderson's lawyer, J. Tony Serra, said he could not comment on grand jury proceedings. He added that Anderson "never knowingly provided illegal substances to anyone."

Major League Baseball began testing for steroids in 2003, and the government alleges that in response to this, players began trooping to BALCO. Conte told ABC he gave Anderson THG and testosterone cream, but not for any specific athlete.

Giambi used hGH and the steroid Deca Durabolin obtained from a source in a Gold's Gym in Las Vegas, according to the account of his testimony. The Chronicle said it had "reviewed" the testimony; it did not say how it was obtained.

Giambi's agent, Arn Tellem, said he and the Yankees star would not comment.

U.S. Attorney Kevin V. Ryan requested that the Justice Department conduct a formal investigation into the source of the leak. The government, defense lawyers and defendants have access to the transcripts. "Violations of grand jury secrecy rules will not be tolerated," he said.

tk13
12-03-2004, 01:15 AM
McGwire's been retired for 3 years now, I don't think he owes anybody anything. There's no doubt the guy took a lot of supplements, but among all these people fans like to bash (like Sosa and Bonds who did nothing in the HR column until bulking up), he was the only one who broke the rookie record and hit just shy of 50 homers in his first season before being a freak athlete was the hip thing... you'd have a hard time convincing me he's not one of the 2-3 greatest power hitters who ever lived.

And really for Bonds, no doubt he got stronger, and he shouldn't be given a free pass, but what's sad is that people are just going to say his whole career is steroids at its best... but Bonds' hand-eye skills and pure hitting ability are off the charts.

jAZ
12-03-2004, 01:19 AM
... but Bonds' hand-eye skills and pure hitting ability are off the charts.
You are correct, and it's a shame that he had to go and ruin his reputation this way...


(In case you couldn't tell, I'm not buying his "I didn't know that it was steroids" excuse.)

Miles
12-03-2004, 01:22 AM
And really for Bonds, no doubt he got stronger, and he shouldn't be given a free pass, but what's sad is that people are just going to say his whole career is steroids at its best... but Bonds' hand-eye skills and pure hitting ability are off the charts.

Yeah before he bulked up he was one of the top hitters in the game and was an excellent fielder. However prior the last few seasons, writers and fans were not declaring him of of the top if not the top hitter in MLB history.

tk13
12-03-2004, 01:29 AM
Yeah before he bulked up he was one of the top hitters in the game and was an excellent fielder. However prior the last few seasons, writers and fans were not declaring him of of the top if not the top hitter in MLB history.
Yeah.... it is amazing when you consider the guy sees maybe... maybe.... one good pitch to hit per game. When he gets it, he drills it. The zone he was in during 2001 was amazing... you literally could not pitch him in the strike zone, if you did, he crushed it.

KcMizzou
12-03-2004, 01:37 AM
Yeah.... it is amazing when you consider the guy sees maybe... maybe.... one good pitch to hit per game. When he gets it, he drills it. The zone he was in during 2001 was amazing... you literally could not pitch him in the strike zone, if you did, he crushed it. I agree with everything you've said. But if his accomplishments are considered tainted, he has noone to blame but himself.

jAZ
12-03-2004, 01:37 AM
Yeah.... it is amazing when you consider the guy sees maybe... maybe.... one good pitch to hit per game. When he gets it, he drills it. The zone he was in during 2001 was amazing... you literally could not pitch him in the strike zone, if you did, he crushed it.
If Barry wasn't juiced, he wouldn't have accomplished what he did.... period. If he wasn't skilled, he wouldn't have accomplished what he did... period.

He can be talented, in the zone and still fall well short of the insane numbers he put up after he juiced himself. He needed to cheat to accomplish what he did.

He woudl have continued to be what he was for his entire career up to that point. A great player who hits an above average # of home runs. And strangely enough, that's exactly what he went back to being last season - just as soon as this scandal broke.

tk13
12-03-2004, 01:43 AM
And strangely enough, that's exactly what he went back to being last season - just as soon as this scandal broke.

Actually his last three years he's hit 45, 45, and 46 homers. Part of that though is that over those three years he was walked 578 times. If he got the same number of actual at-bats that most of the other elite players got, he'd have blown them out of the water in the home run race...

Miles
12-03-2004, 01:44 AM
If Barry wasn't juiced, he wouldn't have accomplished what he did.... period. If he wasn't skilled, he wouldn't have accomplished what he did... period.

He can be talented, in the zone and still fall well short of the insane numbers he put up after he juiced himself. He needed to cheat to accomplish what he did.

He woudl have continued to be what he was for his entire career up to that point. A great player who hits an above average # of home runs. And strangely enough, that's exactly what he went back to being last season - just as soon as this scandal broke.

Yeah all of the amazing stats he put up have been during the roid era. Without roids he was one of the best hitters of the decade but on them it elivated him to on of the best ever.

His numbers last season were still really amazing but most of that was due to him being walked so many damn times.

jAZ
12-03-2004, 01:44 AM
Actually his last three years he's hit 45, 45, and 46 homers. Part of that though is that over those three years he was walked 578 times. If he got the same number of actual at-bats that most of the other elite players got, he'd have blown them out of the water in the home run race...
You know, I was just looking those numbers up on ESPN.com just now. I stand corrected. I thought he had a longer run than that, but I was thinking of Sammy Sosa (who also dropped off since his huge years).

mcan
12-03-2004, 03:08 AM
Hate to break it to you guys but players were using roids long before 01...

Also, steroids do not add muscle. They only help you work out harder and recover faster, so that you can hit the gym more...

Jenson71
12-03-2004, 05:26 AM
I suggest a public hanging.

Amnorix
12-03-2004, 06:55 AM
Hate to break it to you guys but players were using roids long before 01...

Also, steroids do not add muscle. They only help you work out harder and recover faster, so that you can hit the gym more...

:shake:

Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and the other baseball legends whose career and season records have been smashed recently did NOT use steroids. Can we agree on that?

Second, steroids do not DIRECTLY add muscle, that is true. It's not like you pop a pill, sit on the couch, and watch your muscles grow. However, it is clearly true that steroids allow a person to achieve and maintain muscle mass that would OTHERWISE be beyond that person's "normal" ability.

In other words, steroids are MORE than just a shortcut to where you could've gotten to anyway. It's not like Bonds with steroids only needed to work out 3 hours a day to achieve muscle mass that otherwise he would have needed to work out 4 hours a day for.

Amnorix
12-03-2004, 06:56 AM
I suggest a public hanging.

All these guys should be banned from baseball. They are making a mockery of the game, its history, the achievements of those who don't dope themselves up, and are setting a horrible example for the next generation.

IMHO lifetime bans are the only appropriate remedy.

Skip Towne
12-03-2004, 07:11 AM
Cheaters never prosper.

shakesthecat
12-03-2004, 07:15 AM
All these guys should be banned from baseball. They are making a mockery of the game, its history, the achievements of those who don't dope themselves up, and are setting a horrible example for the next generation.

IMHO lifetime bans are the only appropriate remedy.

Totally agree.

If they really want to clean up the sport, I would think a lifetime ban on the games greatest player*, would send a very clear mesage.

Of course, that will never happen.

BigRedChief
12-03-2004, 07:19 AM
I didn't buy that BS either. Didn't know it was steroids. my ass. There is no way Barry should keep his records.

Ari Chi3fs
12-03-2004, 07:26 AM
Im juiced... with Florida Orange.

Cochise
12-03-2004, 07:49 AM
Thanks for being straight with us Barry*

kc rush
12-03-2004, 07:54 AM
I didn't buy that BS either. Didn't know it was steroids. my ass. There is no way Barry should keep his records.

Agreed. As a professional athelete it is your responsibility to know what you are putting into your body. Ask questions because it is your livelihood. If you aren't sure ask a baseball official.

"I didn't know" doesn't fly here. It's like saying some guy I know told me to drink this, so I did, I didn't know it was drain cleaner.

Be responsible or suffer the consequences.

jspchief
12-03-2004, 08:08 AM
Obviously, this comes as no suprise. These guys should have all titles, records, MVPs, etc. taken from them.

Something that's been passed over on all of this is MLB's accountability. They took a soft approach to steroids for many years, letting the players union dictate what kind of drug testing would be done. After years of playing "see no evil...", it's finally come back to haunt them, by tainting the greatest record in pro sports, and putting a black eye on some of the great baseball moments of the last 15 years.

Baby Lee
12-03-2004, 08:18 AM
"I didn't know" doesn't fly here. It's like saying some guy I know told me to drink this, so I did, I didn't know it was drain cleaner.
I'm a no-rust-build-up man, myself . . . I say we go with big blue here.

KCTitus
12-03-2004, 08:21 AM
All these guys should be banned from baseball. They are making a mockery of the game, its history, the achievements of those who don't dope themselves up, and are setting a horrible example for the next generation.

IMHO lifetime bans are the only appropriate remedy.

No way...baseball and these yayhoos deserve each other. Yet another step into the scrap heap of sports history. Hopefully, in my lifetime, baseball will be reduced to joke status like American soccer.

Rausch
12-03-2004, 08:52 AM
Does anyone need him to? I mean, isn't it obvious who's juiced and who isn't?...

Rain Man
12-03-2004, 08:58 AM
Baseball is dead. It's just been on a TV-contract ventilator for the past 20 years. Who even cares about it any more?

Cochise
12-03-2004, 09:04 AM
Does anyone need him to? I mean, isn't it obvious who's juiced and who isn't?...

What do you mean? Lots of people naturally pack on 50 pounds of muscle in their late 30s.

Calcountry
12-03-2004, 10:39 AM
Actually his last three years he's hit 45, 45, and 46 homers. Part of that though is that over those three years he was walked 578 times. If he got the same number of actual at-bats that most of the other elite players got, he'd have blown them out of the water in the home run race...
How many walks did Ruth get? How many walks did Aaron get?

Its a part of the game, get over it.

Calcountry
12-03-2004, 10:41 AM
What do you mean? Lots of people naturally pack on 50 pounds of muscle in their late 30s.
I have packed on 50 pounds of fat in my late 30's, so it is typical for the body to pack something on.

If I was working out and eating right, whos to say that wouldn't have put on 20 to 30 pounds of lean mass.

The real issue here is whether or not "juicing" is wrong.

Is it wrong only if you are an athlete but o.k. if you just want to look good and score babes?

bogie
12-03-2004, 11:00 AM
I'm curious, don't many professional athletes juice up these days? How do we know football players don't?

Mile High Mania
12-03-2004, 11:02 AM
The guy from Balco claims Romo was one of the first he gave steroids too... freaking Raider. STFU

bogie
12-03-2004, 11:39 AM
It would be nice to think that football players keep it real. I don't know though...

OldTownChief
12-03-2004, 11:59 AM
The thread title should be changed. "Barry Bonds ( lying sack of sh!t) STILL doesn't finally admit to using steroids"

Maybe when he's 100 years old like Pete Rose he will admit he knew what he was taking.

Jenson71
12-03-2004, 01:36 PM
Does anyone need him to? I mean, isn't it obvious who's juiced and who isn't?...

I think Big Daddy will have a hard time coping with this.

tk13
12-03-2004, 01:36 PM
How many walks did Ruth get? How many walks did Aaron get?

Its a part of the game, get over it.
What? You do realize that Barry has the 3 greatest single-season walk totals ever. This past season he obliterated his own record and walked 232 times.... the old record (which Barry held) was 198.... which broke the old record (which Barry also held) which was 177. This past year Barry was intentionally walked 120 times. That is obscene. Barry Bonds has 604 career intentional walks. 2nd on the list is Hank Aaron, who had 293. I don't know what your point was but mine to just to show that he really hasn't fallen off much, people aren't pitching to him... believe it or not, less than they pitched to Ruth or Aaron....

Demonpenz
12-03-2004, 02:02 PM
Big surprise

"Pacer Ron Artest starts fight in balco case"

Demonpenz
12-03-2004, 02:03 PM
How many of those intentional walks were do to steriods, probably all of them.

Demonpenz
12-03-2004, 02:03 PM
For people like me who like the ASTERICK, today is our superbowl

KCJake
12-03-2004, 02:05 PM
It would be nice to think that football players keep it real. I don't know though...
Come on man. Don't kid yourself.

BigRedChief
12-03-2004, 02:13 PM
For people like me who like the ASTERICK, today is our superbowl
WTF should he get an asterick. He admits to taking a performance enhancing drug when he set the home run record. He cheated. Why do you get to keep records that you admittly cheated to get? OHHH I didn't know. I call BS. Flax seed oil and arthritis cream? Give me a frigging break.

beavis
12-03-2004, 02:14 PM
Hate to break it to you guys but players were using roids long before 01...

Also, steroids do not add muscle. They only help you work out harder and recover faster, so that you can hit the gym more...
I sincerely doubt Ruth, Williams, or Aaron ever roided up.

Boozer
12-03-2004, 02:32 PM
I'm curious, don't many professional athletes juice up these days? How do we know football players don't?

ROFL

This is the funniest post on the board today.

Boozer
12-03-2004, 02:35 PM
I love how a bunch of football fans get all worked up about baseball players using performance enhancing drugs.

Oh, NFL and NCAA players are clean, they test. [/pollyanna] ROFL

Calcountry
12-03-2004, 03:16 PM
What? You do realize that Barry has the 3 greatest single-season walk totals ever. This past season he obliterated his own record and walked 232 times.... the old record (which Barry held) was 198.... which broke the old record (which Barry also held) which was 177. This past year Barry was intentionally walked 120 times. That is obscene. Barry Bonds has 604 career intentional walks. 2nd on the list is Hank Aaron, who had 293. I don't know what your point was but mine to just to show that he really hasn't fallen off much, people aren't pitching to him... believe it or not, less than they pitched to Ruth or Aaron....
Hey fug it, if the Giants are stupid enough to not have quality hitters to surround him in the lineup then he deserves to be walked. It is a team game, if they think that they can just give us the Barry show, then he is to be walked, walked, and walked again until he is too fuggin old to swing the bat.

Mojo Rising
12-04-2004, 09:34 AM
Listening to sports radio was comical yesterday. I was suprised with how adamantly the callers were supporting Bonds. The host did point out that the Bay Area is unlike the resy of the country for their support of Bonds.

I think that he and his records should be banned from the game.

jAZ
12-04-2004, 09:55 AM
Is it true that steroids weren't banned by baseball before last season? I thought it was banned, but without any real mechanism to enforce it.

But I've heard people recently trying to make the case that they were NEVER banned until this past season.