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Logical
12-05-2004, 07:22 PM
The Chiefs cannot even lose when they need to, screwing up our draft choice for no gain.:banghead:

chiefs4me
12-05-2004, 07:23 PM
ah,,IT'S CALLED PRIDE

morphius
12-05-2004, 07:25 PM
Vlad, like you didn't expect it. It is our MO.

Inspector
12-05-2004, 07:26 PM
So, how about that Larry Johnson??

Logical
12-05-2004, 07:27 PM
ah,,IT'S CALLED PRIDE

I did not want them to throw the game. I just wanted the Raiders to win it to help us get the better pick.

Damn Raiders screwing us once again.:cuss:

Saulbadguy
12-05-2004, 07:28 PM
Oh well. We still beat the Raiders, and that makes me happy.

Logical
12-05-2004, 07:28 PM
So, how about that Larry Johnson??

If you are an LJ fan I must say congrats. I did not watch the game so I cannot comment on his performance other than to know it was statistically good.

ChiTown
12-05-2004, 07:29 PM
phug dat.

It's the Raiduh's. I wanted this one as if we were 8-3 at the time. Where the phuck is your pride, man?

Logical
12-05-2004, 07:32 PM
phug dat.

It's the Raiduh's. I wanted this one as if we were 8-3 at the time. Where the phuck is your pride, man?
I am more interested in this team being better next year than garnering useless wins. But I understand where you are coming from on the subject.

Nzoner
12-05-2004, 07:33 PM
Fock the draft pick,and fock the Raiders,anytime the Chiefs beat their ass is good.

VonneMarie
12-05-2004, 07:35 PM
We only slipped two spots.

Pick Team Record
1 San Francisco 49ers 1-11
2 Miami Dolphins 2-10
3 Cleveland Browns 3-9
4 Dallas Cowboys 4-7
5 New Orleans Saints 4-8
6 Kansas City Chiefs 4-8
7 Oakland Raiders 4-8
8 Tennessee Titans 4-8
9 Arizona Cardinals 4-8
10 Washington Redskins 4-8

KingPriest2
12-05-2004, 07:35 PM
I am more interested in this team being better next year than garnering useless wins. But I understand where you are coming from on the subject.


I see your view in way. But I have heard this, You are better winning your last few games because it carries into the next year. I do believe that. Why lose the rest of your games? That would tear you team apart. Play for next year. Right now that is what they are doing.

KingPriest2
12-05-2004, 07:37 PM
We only slipped two spots.

Pick Team Record
1 San Francisco 49ers 1-11
2 Miami Dolphins 2-10
3 Cleveland Browns 3-9
4 Dallas Cowboys 4-7
5 New Orleans Saints 4-8
6 Kansas City Chiefs 4-8
7 Oakland Raiders 4-8
8 Tennessee Titans 4-8
9 Arizona Cardinals 4-8
10 Washington Redskins 4-8

How are we below the Saints since we lost to them and higher then the Raiders who we beat?

Where did you get this list from?

Logical
12-05-2004, 07:37 PM
We only slipped two spots.

Pick Team Record
1 San Francisco 49ers 1-11
2 Miami Dolphins 2-10
3 Cleveland Browns 3-9
4 Dallas Cowboys 4-7
5 New Orleans Saints 4-8
6 Kansas City Chiefs 4-8
7 Oakland Raiders 4-8
8 Tennessee Titans 4-8
9 Arizona Cardinals 4-8
10 Washington Redskins 4-8

Hopefully Dallas wins tommorow which I think would drop them below us.

Saulbadguy
12-05-2004, 07:37 PM
I'm not sure that head 2 head matters in draft pick rankings.

Logical
12-05-2004, 07:38 PM
How are we below the Saints since we lost to them and higher then the Raiders who we beat?

Where did you get this list from?

It is because the ranking for tied teams is based on strength of schedule.

VonneMarie
12-05-2004, 07:39 PM
Dosen't strength of schedule matter?

KingPriest2
12-05-2004, 07:39 PM
It is because the ranking for tied teams is based on strength of schedule.


I never heard that before.

VonneMarie
12-05-2004, 07:40 PM
How are we below the Saints since we lost to them and higher then the Raiders who we beat?

Where did you get this list from?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/feature/featureStory?page=nfldraft05

Saulbadguy
12-05-2004, 07:40 PM
I never heard that before.
They go by that first since the teams don't always play each other.

morphius
12-05-2004, 07:42 PM
For some stupid reason Strength of Schedule decides tie breakers for draft position. It may be the stupidest thing ever.

Logical
12-05-2004, 07:43 PM
I never heard that before. That is how it works for the first round. After the first round they rotate the tied teams with the team that drafted 2nd moving up to first among the tied teams in the 2nd round and the team that drafted highest moving to the last spot among the tied team. If a lot of teams are tied it is almost better to draft 2nd among the tied teams in the first round because typically 2nd round picks are also pretty valuable. With Carl Peterson in charge you can foget that because he is going to pick a project pick in the 2nd round anyway.

BigChiefFan
12-05-2004, 07:44 PM
For some stupid reason Strength of Schedule decides tie breakers for draft position. It may be the stupidest thing ever. It's real stupid. We'll do just enough to fall to the middle of the pack again. :cuss: :cuss:

dirk digler
12-05-2004, 07:45 PM
That is how it works for the first round. After the first round they rotate the tied teams with the team that drafted 2nd moving up to first among the tied teams in the 2nd round and the team that drafted highest moving to the last spot among the tied team. If a lot of teams are tied it is almost better to draft 2nd among the tied teams in the first round because typically 2nd round picks are also pretty valuable. With Carl Peterson in charge you can foget that because he is going to pick a project pick in the 2nd round anyway.


Carl Peterson's 2nd round draft choices have to be the worst in NFL history.

SoCalRaider
12-05-2004, 07:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/feature/featureStory?page=nfldraft05
That ranking doesn't even take tie breakers into account. If you check other threads on this board (i.e. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=105769) you shall find more accurate lists. :rolleyes:

HolmeZz
12-05-2004, 08:01 PM
That list was wrong anyway. We're around 9th or 10th currently, which does suck.

KCJake
12-05-2004, 08:03 PM
I see your view in way. But I have heard this, You are better winning your last few games because it carries into the next year. I do believe that. Why lose the rest of your games? That would tear you team apart. Play for next year. Right now that is what they are doing.
Great point :thumb:

Logical
12-05-2004, 08:10 PM
Great point :thumb:

It would be a great point if we had talent on defense, which we do not.

Ugly Duck
12-05-2004, 08:27 PM
Pick Team Record
1 San Francisco 49ers 1-11
2 Miami Dolphins 2-10
3 Cleveland Browns 3-9
4 Dallas Cowboys 4-7
5 New Orleans Saints 4-8
6 Kansas City Chiefs 4-8
7 Oakland Raiderz 4-8
WTF?? We lose to the evilest team in football and only climb up one freakin spot in the draft derby? Now I'm feeling really crappy about the loss......

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
12-05-2004, 08:29 PM
WTF?? We lose to the evilest team in football and only climb up one freakin spot in the draft derby? Now I'm feeling really crappy about the loss......

Don't worry, Duck.

We'll whup you guys again on Christmas and help your team out. Don't worry about a thing. ;)

Rausch
12-05-2004, 08:30 PM
WTF?? We lose to the evilest team in football and only climb up one freakin spot in the draft derby? Now I'm feeling really crappy about the loss......

You should. The Raiders are terrible.

Ugly Duck
12-05-2004, 08:30 PM
We'll whup you guys again on Christmas and help your team out. Don't worry about a thing. ;)Excellent!

Ugly Duck
12-05-2004, 08:32 PM
You should. The Raiders are terrible.I'm developing a theory that we will eventually need an adequate run game. I'll post my theory after I have the whole thing worked out....

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
12-05-2004, 08:33 PM
I'm developing a theory that we will eventually need an adequate run game. I'll post my theory after I have the whole thing worked out....

If you get that whole space-time continum thing worked out, there's a guy at CDW who'd like to speak to you.

ROFL

Rausch
12-05-2004, 08:34 PM
I'm developing a theory that we will eventually need an adequate run game. I'll post my theory after I have the whole thing worked out....

It could be worse. You could have a dominating ground game and never use it. I hate that...

SoCalRaider
12-05-2004, 08:35 PM
WTF?? We lose to the evilest team in football and only climb up one freakin spot in the draft derby? Now I'm feeling really crappy about the loss......
We actually jumped 6 spots. Heading into the game we were #14. Pending the Sunday and Monday night games, we are currently #8.

mikey23545
12-05-2004, 08:43 PM
The Chiefs cannot even lose when they need to, screwing up our draft choice for no gain.:banghead:

Any Chiefs "fan" who ever hopes the Chiefs lose is a first class cocksucker....

Get your fill...

FloridaChief
12-05-2004, 08:46 PM
Any Chiefs "fan" who ever hopes the Chiefs lose is a first class one who sucks the penis....

Get your fill...

R-E-P....

Valiant
12-05-2004, 08:50 PM
We only slipped two spots.

Pick Team Record
1 San Francisco 49ers 1-11
2 Miami Dolphins 2-10
3 Cleveland Browns 3-9
4 Dallas Cowboys 4-7
5 New Orleans Saints 4-8
6 Kansas City Chiefs 4-8
7 Oakland Raiders 4-8
8 Tennessee Titans 4-8
9 Arizona Cardinals 4-8
10 Washington Redskins 4-8


Actually this is wrong.. OUr strength of schedule is higher then the other 4-8 teams so we would catipult down to 9th or tenth...

Skip Towne
12-05-2004, 08:51 PM
That is how it works for the first round. After the first round they rotate the tied teams with the team that drafted 2nd moving up to first among the tied teams in the 2nd round and the team that drafted highest moving to the last spot among the tied team. If a lot of teams are tied it is almost better to draft 2nd among the tied teams in the first round because typically 2nd round picks are also pretty valuable. With Carl Peterson in charge you can foget that because he is going to pick a project pick in the 2nd round anyway.
Does this all hold true if there's a full moon?

Valiant
12-05-2004, 08:53 PM
Any Chiefs "fan" who ever hopes the Chiefs lose is a first class one who sucks the penis....

Get your fill...


Oh thats right, Only the REAL fans want our team to be 7-9, in a shitty draft spot, and at no shot to grab a impact player... Oh and we wouldn't get to face the other shitty teams from other divisions next year...

Is that better for you...


What do we get for pride, a pony??? The year is lost with no way to get in the playoffs, why not play for a draft pick, hell we have been losing barely all year... We are a good team, we are only a average Defense away... Why not grab the impact player in the draft, he will not be there later on in our draft if we win out for your pride...

Rausch
12-05-2004, 08:56 PM
Oh thats right, Only the REAL fans want our team to be 7-9, in a shitty draft spot, and at no shot to grab a impact player... Oh and we wouldn't get to face the other shitty teams from other divisions next year...

Is that better for you...


What do we get for pride, a pony??? The year is lost with no way to get in the playoffs, why not play for a draft pick, hell we have been losing barely all year... We are a good team, we are only a average Defense away... Why not grab the impact player in the draft, he will not be there later on in our draft if we win out for your pride...

Is this year over?

Ok, that said, finding a way to fix our defensive problems this year and head into next without this funk MIGHT just be more important than picking 3 spots higher.

mikey23545
12-05-2004, 08:56 PM
Oh thats right, Only the REAL fans want our team to be 7-9, in a shitty draft spot, and at no shot to grab a impact player... Oh and we wouldn't get to face the other shitty teams from other divisions next year...

Is that better for you...


What do we get for pride, a pony??? The year is lost with no way to get in the playoffs, why not play for a draft pick, hell we have been losing barely all year... We are a good team, we are only a average Defense away... Why not grab the impact player in the draft, he will not be there later on in our draft if we win out for your pride...

I can only assume you are so stupid you think it is a neccessity for the Chiefs to lose every game to improve the following year....

See Patriots, New England....

|Zach|
12-05-2004, 08:57 PM
Actually this is wrong.. OUr strength of schedule is higher then the other 4-8 teams so we would catipult down to 9th or tenth...
So how many "take backs" is this for you today Vonnie?

Rausch
12-05-2004, 08:59 PM
I can only assume you are so stupid you think it is a neccessity for the Chiefs to lose every game to improve the following year....

See Patriots, New England....

The Jets, Colts, Eagles...

Skip Towne
12-05-2004, 08:59 PM
Any Chiefs "fan" who ever hopes the Chiefs lose is a first class one who sucks the penis....

Get your fill...
Uh, not always. Since 1963, I have rooted against the Chiefs in one game. It was the last game of the season either two or three years ago. If we had won that meaningless game, it could have cost us 5 or 6 places in the draft. I later found out it doesn't make any difference unless you have competent people running your draft. I may have rooted against us so we could get Trezelle Jenkins.

FloridaChief
12-05-2004, 09:01 PM
So how many "take backs" is this for you today Vonnie?


ROFL

Every time you two fight on this BB, I die a little inside...

Valiant
12-05-2004, 09:02 PM
I can only assume you are so stupid you think it is a neccessity for the Chiefs to lose every game to improve the following year....

See Patriots, New England....


NE is a enigma or every other team would follow their suite...and for losing every other game, no.. i want them to stomp denver...

and we dropped more then a few spots.. we went from 4th to 10th with this win, the problem is you think your damn pride in a lost season is great... You are saying that our defensive players are going to magically get better next year if they win out... All you are going around is talking shit on other posters because we want the chance for the Chiefs to be BETTER NEXT YEAR, instead of your status quo rant...

You keep wishing upon a star that our defensive talent will turn it around...

Valiant
12-05-2004, 09:06 PM
Uh, not always. Since 1963, I have rooted against the Chiefs in one game. It was the last game of the season either two or three years ago. If we had won that meaningless game, it could have cost us 5 or 6 places in the draft. I later found out it doesn't make any difference unless you have competent people running your draft. I may have rooted against us so we could get Trezelle Jenkins.


I love my Chiefs, but this is a lost season... I, and others are hoping for the future... Many on here have a problem with that... IF we lose out on one of the few playmakers we could have with a top 5 pick, would the extra 2-3 wins be worth it(denver is the only team i want us to beat)..

Some of us would like a playmaker of DT ability back on defense, we cannot have him drafting 15th...

Off to play some coed football, be back later to see some of the flames..

Nzoner
12-05-2004, 09:06 PM
If you are an LJ fan I must say congrats. I did not watch the game so I cannot comment on his performance other than to know it was statistically good.

Any Chiefs "fan" who ever hopes the Chiefs lose is a first class one who sucks the penis....

Not to mention a "fan" who doesn't even watch the game.

Nzoner
12-05-2004, 09:10 PM
I love my Chiefs, but this is a lost season... I, and others are hoping for the future... Many on here have a problem with that... IF we lose out on one of the few playmakers we could have with a top 5 pick, would the extra 2-3 wins be worth it(denver is the only team i want us to beat)..

A win against the Raiders is well worth it,I'm assuming based on your comment you feel the same about the Donks.

Logical
12-05-2004, 09:41 PM
Oh thats right, Only the REAL fans want our team to be 7-9, in a shitty draft spot, and at no shot to grab a impact player... Oh and we wouldn't get to face the other shitty teams from other divisions next year...

Is that better for you...


What do we get for pride, a pony??? The year is lost with no way to get in the playoffs, why not play for a draft pick, hell we have been losing barely all year... We are a good team, we are only a average Defense away... Why not grab the impact player in the draft, he will not be there later on in our draft if we win out for your pride...:clap:

Demonpenz
12-05-2004, 09:42 PM
you play to win the game. herman edwards.

Logical
12-05-2004, 09:42 PM
Not to mention a "fan" who doesn't even watch the game.

Excuse me for choosing to spend time with my family over our putrid team that Carl and DV decided we could waste an entire offseason on.

Rausch
12-05-2004, 09:43 PM
you play to win the game. herman edwards.

On a side note, I really like that man. I think he's probably the most underrated HC in the league.

He's consistently drafted and developed talent.

digi2fish
12-05-2004, 09:45 PM
well
it's too hard to take to lose a game against the Raiders and the Doncos....

I still wish we the one against the Doncos

Rausch
12-05-2004, 09:46 PM
well
it's too hard to take to lose a game against the Raiders and the Doncos....

I still wish we the one against the Doncos

Love the avatar... ROFL

Demonpenz
12-05-2004, 09:46 PM
i don't understand why you would want your team to loose. You have to know someone somewhere that likes the raiders. It's getting to tell the raider fans i know to Fug off that makes it for me.

Logical
12-05-2004, 09:49 PM
i don't understand why you would want your team to loose. You have to know someone somewhere that likes the raiders. It's getting to tell the raider fans i know to Fug off that makes it for me.

I now live in San Diego and I do not know a single Raider fan here.

Demonpenz
12-05-2004, 09:50 PM
I now live in San Diego and I do not know a single Raider fan here.


from the way you talk sounds like you don't know any chiefs fans either.

Nzoner
12-05-2004, 09:52 PM
Excuse me for choosing to spend time with my family over our putrid team that Carl and DV decided we could waste an entire offseason on.

No,excuse me,I just thought 3 1/2 hours of family time during football season was spent watching the Chiefs like we do.

Carry on.

Logical
12-05-2004, 09:52 PM
from the way you talk sounds like you don't know any chiefs fans either.Only through the BB. 2BikeMike lives out here but I met him through the BB.

Inspector
12-05-2004, 09:54 PM
Excuse me for choosing to spend time with my family over our putrid team that Carl and DV decided we could waste an entire offseason on.

Hey!

Get your priorities straight man!

You probably have overrated your family.














j/k.....

whoman69
12-05-2004, 10:29 PM
I did not want them to throw the game. I just wanted the Raiders to win it to help us get the better pick.

Damn Raiders screwing us once again.:cuss:
That's horrible. I would never, ever, ever root for the Raiders to beat us.


















Ever!

Logical
12-05-2004, 10:32 PM
That's horrible. I would never, ever, ever root for the Raiders to beat us.

Ever!

Actually besides spending family time the other reason for not watching is I could not bring myself to root against the Chiefs so I did not watch and just hoped for the result that would help us with getting the best possible draft pick.

bricks
12-05-2004, 10:44 PM
My 2 cents, it doesn't matter where you draft nowadays. It who you draft wherever. Where your drafting doesn't make a real difference. I think it's pretty overrated to be honest. Selecting Ryan Sims(6th overall) is evidence. Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leaf were all drafted high, and sucked the bag. just to prove ny point, I can go on and on....no use in fighting for draft slots. Especially with Carl and Lynn Stiles, I don't see the point. Remember, who you draft, whenever. Bottomline, the Chiefs will get a high pick and that's what matters.

Straight, No Chaser
12-05-2004, 10:54 PM
Actually besides spending family time the other reason for not watching is I could not bring myself to root against the Chiefs so I did not watch and just hoped for the result that would help us with getting the best possible draft pick.

Family time is fine but rooting for KC to lose? Shame on you.


--->

wazu
12-05-2004, 10:58 PM
Family time is fine but rooting for KC to lose? Shame on you.


--->

KC has already lost. The season is over. The only thing a win accomplishes for us now is to reduce our draft spot. On draft day, are you really going to be sitting there smiling that we went 7-9 but screwed our draft position? What's the point?

And don't tell me pride. There can be no pride for a team that's this sh*tty. I want to take pride in a Superbowl champion. That's all I care about.

Saulbadguy
12-05-2004, 10:59 PM
KC has already lost. The season is over. The only thing a win accomplishes for us now is to reduce our draft spot. On draft day, are you really going to be sitting there smiling that we went 7-9 but screwed our draft position? What's the point?

And don't tell me pride. There can be no pride for a team that's this sh*tty. I want to take pride in a Superbowl champion. That's all I care about.
Good thing you aren't a player.

wazu
12-05-2004, 11:01 PM
Good thing you aren't a player.

Yeah. Cause it would suck to have a player whose top priority was a Superbowl championship.

Saulbadguy
12-05-2004, 11:03 PM
Yeah. Cause it would suck to have a player whose top priority was a Superbowl championship.
It would suck to have a player who have no pride in what they do, even when not playing for a championship.

Stinger
12-05-2004, 11:07 PM
I find it strange that anyone want their team to lose? Thoe who do have you ever played any organized sports what so ever? You never ever, ever, and I mean ever play to lose.

I hope the team wins all their remaing games. It would help build the moral of the team, but more importantly it would PISS OFF a few on the board that need it. ROFL

Straight, No Chaser
12-05-2004, 11:10 PM
KC has already lost. The season is over. The only thing a win accomplishes for us now is to reduce our draft spot. On draft day, are you really going to be sitting there smiling that we went 7-9 but screwed our draft position? What's the point?

And don't tell me pride. There can be no pride for a team that's this sh*tty. I want to take pride in a Superbowl champion. That's all I care about.

Since when did a draft spot get this team to the Superbowl?

The players do have some pride Adam. I don't think they give a Shanarat arse about yours.

--->

Logical
12-05-2004, 11:11 PM
Stinger, I take it you missed this post. I did not want them to throw the game.

I did not want them to throw the game. I just wanted the Raiders to win it to help us get the better pick.

Damn Raiders screwing us once again.:cuss:

Pitt Gorilla
12-05-2004, 11:15 PM
We do not want a top 5 pick; heck, I'm not sure a top 8 pick is very good either. Picking 9-20 tends to give you good bang for the bucks.

wazu
12-05-2004, 11:17 PM
Since when did a draft spot get this team to the Superbowl?

Is this a serious question?

The players do have some pride Adam. I don't think they give a Shanarat arse about yours.

I don't expect the players to play crappy. They get paid to go full speed. I do, however, think that the coaching staff should rotate out the starters and develop the young guys for the rest of the year.

In the NFL's system, once you are out of the playoffs winning is foolish. The only silver lining to a season like this is a good draft position.

BigChiefFan
12-05-2004, 11:17 PM
I find it strange that anyone want their team to lose? Thoe who do have you ever played any organized sports what so ever? You never ever, ever, and I mean ever play to lose.

I hope the team wins all their remaing games. It would help build the moral of the team, but more importantly it would PISS OFF a few on the board that need it. ROFL
Yea that way it can be groundhog day for 17 years in a row. Look nobody wants their team to lose, NOBODY. Given the circumstances that we are in, other than pride and developing the young guys winning at this point only hurts us in the long run. Face facts we are playing for 2005 and our defense is still attrocious. The only way we get better is to do a major overhaul on defense. The best way to do that is through the draft. I will never root for the Chiefs to lose, but common sense says it's better for us in the long run, so we can land some quality draftees. Drafting at the middle of the pack, just puts us right back in the smae damn situation we are always in. A middle of the road team. Super Bowl or bust.

wazu
12-05-2004, 11:18 PM
We do not want a top 5 pick; heck, I'm not sure a top 8 pick is very good either. Picking 9-20 tends to give you good bang for the bucks.

That's a fine philosophy. Trade down from your top 5 pick and pick 2 players in the first round instead. How's that sound?

Straight, No Chaser
12-05-2004, 11:28 PM
... I will never root for the Chiefs to lose, but common sense says it's better for us in the long run, so we can land some quality draftees...

Holy Raiders Raiders. You can't have it both ways man.

The draft is not the exclusive way to upgrade the defense. You think losing out to get a early pick and then going out and getting a player that can impact in year one is going to happen? The Ben Roethlisberger on the defensive side is not going to miraculously fall into CP's lap. If you think so, well, then the medical :bong: you've been smoking is first rate.


--->

go bowe
12-05-2004, 11:40 PM
Holy Raiders Raiders. You can't have it both ways man.

The draft is not the exclusive way to upgrade the defense. You think losing out to get a early pick and then going out and getting a player that can impact in year one is going to happen? The Ben Roethlisberger on the defensive side is not going to miraculously fall into CP's lap. If you think so, well, then the medical :bong: you've been smoking is first rate.


--->you're probably right, but didn't we get tony gonzales with a high draft pick?

maybe we could get lucky and get the tony gonzales on the defensive side...



(ok, ok... wishful thinking, i know)

bricks
12-05-2004, 11:45 PM
you're probably right, but didn't we get tony gonzales with a high draft pick?

maybe we could get lucky and get the tony gonzales on the defensive side...



(ok, ok... wishful thinking, i know)

Hey. You know what? You never know.

Pitt Gorilla
12-05-2004, 11:48 PM
That's a fine philosophy. Trade down from your top 5 pick and pick 2 players in the first round instead. How's that sound?Trading usually requires 2 parties. Are you suggesting a mandated trading partner?

Pitt Gorilla
12-05-2004, 11:51 PM
you're probably right, but didn't we get tony gonzales with a high draft pick?

maybe we could get lucky and get the tony gonzales on the defensive side...



(ok, ok... wishful thinking, i know)Tony G was drafted 13th overall, a good spot for us to draft. 10-15 would probably be optimal.

wazu
12-05-2004, 11:55 PM
Trading usually requires 2 parties. Are you suggesting a mandated trading partner?

For the sake of argument, if the Chiefs really absolutely had to pick at #15 or something, but were in the #6 spot, do you really think they wouldn't be able to trade 1st round picks straight-up, and retain better position in rounds 2-7?

Not that they would have to, but that's the worst-case, emergency scenario, and it's still better than just being in the #15 spot every round.

Straight, No Chaser
12-05-2004, 11:56 PM
you're probably right, but didn't we get tony gonzales with a high draft pick?

maybe we could get lucky and get the tony gonzales on the defensive side...



(ok, ok... wishful thinking, i know)

Or maybe Derrick Thomas (sorry Derrick, RIP).
If you watched JAX & Pittsburgh tonight, and compare those to our D, we not only have to change players but we need to get an attitude adjustment. I'm guessing Gunther has aged 5 years in the last nine months.



---->

Logical
12-05-2004, 11:59 PM
For the sake of argument, if the Chiefs really absolutely had to pick at #15 or something, but were in the #6 spot, do you really think they wouldn't be able to trade 1st round picks straight-up, and retain better position in rounds 2-7?

Not that they would have to, but that's the worst-case, emergency scenario, and it's still better than just being in the #15 spot every round.

I absolutely do not want us trading down. Carl is guaranteed to F.. that up royal and is the worst drafter in the 2nd round that I can imagine. When Carl moves down he drafts projects and he is lousy at it.

bricks
12-06-2004, 12:04 AM
I absolutely do not want us trading down. Carl is guaranteed to F.. that up royal and is the worst drafter in the 2nd round that I can imagine. When Carl moves down he drafts projects and he is lousy at it.

What pisses me off, is he always drafts these players that aren't even heard of even by amateur scouts, from like division III schools, and tries to make them football players. This happens once every draft by us.

wazu
12-06-2004, 12:12 AM
I absolutely do not want us trading down. Carl is guaranteed to F.. that up royal and is the worst drafter in the 2nd round that I can imagine. When Carl moves down he drafts projects and he is lousy at it.

I'll have to do more research on this next year's draft before making that determination. But yeah, I am usually against trading down. I just wanted to answer the "picking 15th is better than picking 5th" fanatics.

Miles
12-06-2004, 12:16 AM
What pisses me off, is he always drafts these players that aren't even heard of even by amateur scouts, from like division III schools, and tries to make them football players. This happens once every draft by us.

Yeah its not a bad strategy for the latter rounds but when its used in the early rounds its fatal. There is no need dig up projects in the second damn round.

Valiant
12-06-2004, 12:18 AM
Holy Raiders Raiders. You can't have it both ways man.

The draft is not the exclusive way to upgrade the defense. You think losing out to get a early pick and then going out and getting a player that can impact in year one is going to happen? The Ben Roethlisberger on the defensive side is not going to miraculously fall into CP's lap. If you think so, well, then the medical :bong: you've been smoking is first rate.


--->


Derrick Thomas who... Glad we never got a stud impact player as a rookie ever... I mean that is foolish to believe that.. :rolleyes:

I fail to see why certain bash other fans that are looking towards the future... If we win out to go 8-8, and win just like we did last(ex. 42-38) what exactly does that do for our defense, just that our bailed them out agian... The defensive side of the is absolutly horrible... We need to get a playmaker there, and there is a higher chance to get one with a top five pick...

lets see here...
-------------------------------------------
Chiefs 1st rounders...

2002 6th ryan sims, average player now.. needs support on d line
2001 no pick
2000 21st slymo bust
1999 14th tait, benifet of probowlers made him look average... average
1998 27th victor riley bust
1997 13th Tony G, all-star
1996 28th Woods.. average player making too much money..was great
1995 31st Jenkins, bust
1994 25th greg hill, bust
1993 no pick
1992 20th dale carter, probowler
1991 21st harvey williams, bust
1990 13th percy snow, injury bust
1989 4th Derrick Thomas, all-star
1988 2nd neil smith, all-star

looks to me our Defense that propelled us to the playoffs came off of two drafts 89 and 88, never have we gotten that close again in bringing in talent thru lower draft picks.. The Chiefs are much better at getting the talent at the top 5 then they are in the 19-31 picks...

bricks
12-06-2004, 12:18 AM
Yeah its not a bad strategy for the latter rounds but when its used in the early rounds its fatal. There is no need dig up projects in the second damn round.

Doesn't this tell us something about our scouting staff? They never learn :banghead:

Valiant
12-06-2004, 12:21 AM
Trading usually requires 2 parties. Are you suggesting a mandated trading partner?

one of our running backs and a 2nd for miami's 1st sounds good to me!!! hell we can give them a corner back and safety also...

Manila-Chief
12-06-2004, 12:21 AM
I find it strange that anyone want their team to lose? Thoe who do have you ever played any organized sports what so ever? You never ever, ever, and I mean ever play to lose.

I hope the team wins all their remaing games. It would help build the moral of the team, but more importantly it would PISS OFF a few on the board that need it. ROFL

For those of you wanting us to win to build for next season ... I've got a question for you.....

What happened to the 13-3 record? It seems to have really built us into a winner this year.

I think most of us wanting a high draft pick are saying next year is next year. There is not much carry over value anymore.

The reason I want a top 5 pick is that Kingless was once successful. He chose D.T. Just maybe he can do it again??? I'd like for him to try drafting at the top of the draft again. He has certainly proven he can't draft in the lower positions of the draft!!!

I'm glad I can't see the games. I'd be pulling for them to score and stop the other team .... but, loses means better draft picks...

el borracho
12-06-2004, 12:22 AM
For the sake of argument, if the Chiefs really absolutely had to pick at #15 or something, but were in the #6 spot, do you really think they wouldn't be able to trade 1st round picks straight-up, and retain better position in rounds 2-7?

Not that they would have to, but that's the worst-case, emergency scenario, and it's still better than just being in the #15 spot every round.
Oh, like we could just trick some team into giving up the coveted 15th pick without compensating them. We'd probably have to throw in next years 1st round pick and this years 3rd round pick to make that trade happen.

wazu
12-06-2004, 12:25 AM
Oh, like we could just trick some team into giving up the coveted 15th pick without compensating them. We'd probably have to throw in next years 1st round pick and this years 3rd round pick to make that trade happen.

touche.

bricks
12-06-2004, 12:25 AM
I'm glad I can't see the games. I'd be pulling for them to score and stop the other team .... but, loses means better draft picks...

That's a bunch of crap... :rolleyes: you don't seem like a true Chiefs fan.

2bikemike
12-06-2004, 12:29 AM
For those of you wanting us to win to build for next season ... I've got a question for you.....

What happened to the 13-3 record? It seems to have really built us into a winner this year.

I think most of us wanting a high draft pick are saying next year is next year. There is not much carry over value anymore.

The reason I want a top 5 pick is that Kingless was once successful. He chose D.T. Just maybe he can do it again??? I'd like for him to try drafting at the top of the draft again. He has certainly proven he can't draft in the lower positions of the draft!!!

I'm glad I can't see the games. I'd be pulling for them to score and stop the other team .... but, loses means better draft picks...

One top five pick is not going to turn this team around. We lack leadership on defense a rookie is not going to provide it. Best case scenario is we pick up some quality players in the draft and pick up 2 or 3 defensive FA who will bring some instant leadership and talent to this team.

Nothing is going to change through the draft unless we do it for a few years of very successful drafting. Which btw has not happened in a while.

Fug losing. I want this team to fight to the bitter end. I don't want coaches or players throwing in the towel.

Valiant
12-06-2004, 12:37 AM
One top five pick is not going to turn this team around. We lack leadership on defense a rookie is not going to provide it. Best case scenario is we pick up some quality players in the draft and pick up 2 or 3 defensive FA who will bring some instant leadership and talent to this team.

Nothing is going to change through the draft unless we do it for a few years of very successful drafting. Which btw has not happened in a while.

Fug losing. I want this team to fight to the bitter end. I don't want coaches or players throwing in the towel.


So Neil smith and DT were not leaders as rookies??? What you are saying has already been proven wrong in the past with our own team.. You can get leaders as rookies, especially with the crop of players we have now, will not take much to rise above our D players at this point..

Straight, No Chaser
12-06-2004, 12:42 AM
One top five pick is not going to turn this team around. We lack leadership on defense a rookie is not going to provide it. Best case scenario is we pick up some quality players in the draft and pick up 2 or 3 defensive FA who will bring some instant leadership and talent to this team.

Nothing is going to change through the draft unless we do it for a few years of very successful drafting. Which btw has not happened in a while.

Fug losing. I want this team to fight to the bitter end. I don't want coaches or players throwing in the towel.

Here. Here.
Anyone claiming it's better if the Chiefs lose, and lose to a bitter, bitter division rival in order to get a lower draft position should have their loyalties checked and their head examined. This place seems to be overun with a bunch of whiny little beaches.


---->

Ari ümlaüt
12-06-2004, 12:47 AM
yeah its always good to beat the raiderz. as long as we also beat the donkos.

:ümlaüt:

philfree
12-06-2004, 12:57 AM
If we split the next 4 games we'll probably be drafting top 12. IMO we'll finish the season with a 4 game win streak and then a loss to the Chargers. 7-9 with a pick between 13th and 17th.


PhilFree :arrow:

Valiant
12-06-2004, 01:02 AM
Here. Here.
Anyone claiming it's better if the Chiefs lose, and lose to a bitter, bitter division rival in order to get a lower draft position should have their loyalties checked and their head examined. This place seems to be overun with a bunch of whiny little beaches.


---->


Anyone claiming that it is better to win out and go 7-9 or 8-8 and not in the playoffs instead of a top 5 pick has no vision of the future... I mean it is better not to draft a player like DT or Neil Smith who were taken 4th and 2nd and leaders as rookies, then drafting 20th and taking a player like slymo or victor riley... I mean there has never been a impact player as a rookie for the Chiefs... Why blow that and hurt our chances next year to go the superbowl with a better defense... Might as well win out so we can resign all of our defensive players to a longer contract.. Because the magic fairy will make them better... :rolleyes:

Logical
12-06-2004, 01:10 AM
Anyone claiming that it is better to win out and go 7-9 or 8-8 and not in the playoffs instead of a top 5 pick has no vision of the future... I mean it is better not to draft a player like DT or Neil Smith who were taken 4th and 2nd and leaders as rookies, then drafting 20th and taking a player like slymo or victor riley... I mean there has never been a impact player as a rookie for the Chiefs... Why blow that and hurt our chances next year to go the superbowl with a better defense... Might as well win out so we can resign all of our defensive players to a longer contract.. Because the magic fairy will make them better... :rolleyes:ROFL:thumb::clap:

el borracho
12-06-2004, 01:13 AM
Anyone claiming that it is better to win out and go 7-9 or 8-8 and not in the playoffs instead of a top 5 pick has no vision of the future... I mean it is better not to draft a player like DT or Neil Smith who were taken 4th and 2nd and leaders as rookies, then drafting 20th and taking a player like slymo or victor riley... I mean there has never been a impact player as a rookie for the Chiefs... Why blow that and hurt our chances next year to go the superbowl with a better defense... Might as well win out so we can resign all of our defensive players to a longer contract.. Because the magic fairy will make them better... :rolleyes:
Superbowl Champion Patriots have no vision of the future. They've picked last 2 of the last 3 seasons.

philfree
12-06-2004, 01:18 AM
I think we'd be better off with the mojo on our division opponents and that's who we play the rest of the sesaon with the exception of Tenn. so..........I wanna see my team win on Monday Night, Christmas Day and I'd rather lose a nut then have the Donks win in Arrowhead. If we do that we might as well beat the Chargers and go 8-8. We'll be a good position to draft Corey Webster CB from LSU at 17th.

PhilFree :arrow:

Valiant
12-06-2004, 01:21 AM
Superbowl Champion Patriots have no vision of the future. They've picked last 2 of the last 3 seasons.


And just as I have stated in numerous threads.. There is a reason no other team has accomplished that feat other then the patriots.. They are an enigma.... What other team has even come close to repeating what they have in the current Free Agency.. No one, From blown calls to players wanting to play for less, only NE has been able to do it... And actually they only drafted last once, they traded up to get their tight end 2002...

The Chiefs have proven they can take playmakers with top 5 picks...

el borracho
12-06-2004, 01:29 AM
And just as I have stated in numerous threads.. There is a reason no other team has accomplished that feat other then the patriots.. They are an enigma.... What other team has even come close to repeating what they have in the current Free Agency.. No one, From blown calls to players wanting to play for less, only NE has been able to do it... And actually they only drafted last once, they traded up to get their tight end 2002...

The Chiefs have proven they can take playmakers with top 5 picks...
a) The Broncos won two Superbowls in the 90s.

b) if NE can trade up, so can we.

Ugly Duck
12-06-2004, 01:33 AM
The Chiefs two Top-5 picks were Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith. Please win a few more games. I don't want to suffer through something like those guyz again.

DaWolf
12-06-2004, 01:34 AM
I see your view in way. But I have heard this, You are better winning your last few games because it carries into the next year. I do believe that. Why lose the rest of your games? That would tear you team apart. Play for next year. Right now that is what they are doing.
I agree with this. I think it is better to finish strong, because that affects the entire team in terms of hunger for getting next year underway and putting this season behind us, and the knowlege that they can do it. They'd be more likely to listen to the coaches too. It just gives a program momentum going into the offseason. It isn't all about draft picks. It also would present a better situation to present a potential free agent with than presenting them with a 3-13 team and telling them that they should come sign with you because they can help you turn it around. It has happened with other teams, Atlanta the year before they went to the Bowl, BMore the year before they went to the bowl, Oakland the year before they began their string of AFC West championships. I'm never against finishing strong. In this case we know we're going to get different personnel in the offseason, we know the coaches and front office will be back. From an overall standpoint it is better. Getting a top 5 pick does not guaruntee success the next year. Look at Oakland this year, for example. Bunch of high picks, bunch of free agents, bunch of new coaches. But they had a crap team last year with bad chamistry that quit, and they still have a crap team.

Besides, 3 of our last 4 games are against the West. Ain't no way I want to finish on a losing note against those bastards...

Valiant
12-06-2004, 01:35 AM
The Chiefs two Top-5 picks were Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith. Please win a few more games. I don't want to suffer through something like those guyz again.


Just think how great it would be to have A dominate Defensive player agian with our Offense... But others do not see it that way...


Funny being a realistic fan is worse then being a homer...

Valiant
12-06-2004, 01:42 AM
I agree with this. I think it is better to finish strong, because that affects the entire team in terms of hunger for getting next year underway and putting this season behind us, and the knowlege that they can do it. They'd be more likely to listen to the coaches too. It just gives a program momentum going into the offseason. It isn't all about draft picks. It also would present a better situation to present a potential free agent with than presenting them with a 3-13 team and telling them that they should come sign with you because they can help you turn it around. It has happened with other teams, Atlanta the year before they went to the Bowl, BMore the year before they went to the bowl, Oakland the year before they began their string of AFC West championships. I'm never against finishing strong. In this case we know we're going to get different personnel in the offseason, we know the coaches and front office will be back. From an overall standpoint it is better. Getting a top 5 pick does not guaruntee success the next year. Look at Oakland this year, for example. Bunch of high picks, bunch of free agents, bunch of new coaches. But they had a crap team last year with bad chamistry that quit, and they still have a crap team.

Besides, 3 of our last 4 games are against the West. Ain't no way I want to finish on a losing note against those bastards...


That is apples to oranges though... We have proven what we can do with a top 5 pick.. DT and Smith were top five picks look what they did to our team back then...

We are a good football team losing a lot of close games... We are close to putting it together... Oakland sucked last year for a reason on both sides of the ball... We have a superbowl offense and a jv highschool defense...

We did the worse thing possible and sat status quo on defense, Ted Washington would have helped Sims out greatly...

There is no losing attitude on this team... We just suck really really bad on defense because there is no leaders or playmakers... We have a chance to get both with a top five pick... As long as it is a LB or DE...

We have proven you can grab rookies and them be playmakers..

el borracho
12-06-2004, 01:47 AM
We just suck really really bad on defense because there is no leaders or playmakers... We have a chance to get both with a top five pick... As long as it is a LB or DE...

We have proven you can grab rookies and them be playmakers..
For a moment pretend that the Chiefs have a top 5 pick but then LB Johnson is chosen ahead of us. What DE would you take in the top 5?

2bikemike
12-06-2004, 02:11 AM
That is apples to oranges though... We have proven what we can do with a top 5 pick.. DT and Smith were top five picks look what they did to our team back then...

We are a good football team losing a lot of close games... We are close to putting it together... Oakland sucked last year for a reason on both sides of the ball... We have a superbowl offense and a jv highschool defense...

We did the worse thing possible and sat status quo on defense, Ted Washington would have helped Sims out greatly...

There is no losing attitude on this team... We just suck really really bad on defense because there is no leaders or playmakers... We have a chance to get both with a top five pick... As long as it is a LB or DE...

We have proven you can grab rookies and them be playmakers..

Sure you can grab rookies and have them be playmakers especially when they are surrounded by guys like Kevin Ross,Albert Lewis,Dino Hackett,and Dan Salemua just to name a few. I guarantee you DT would not have made the impact he did his rookie year if not surrounded by these guys.

Would I like to get one of those Blue Chippers in the top 5? Of course who wouldn't? But I hate losing and will never wish/hope for my team to lose.

Straight, No Chaser
12-06-2004, 02:20 AM
... I mean it is better not to draft a player like DT or Neil Smith who were taken 4th and 2nd and leaders as rookies, then drafting 20th and taking a player like slymo or victor riley...

Sorry.
Can we let DT RIP? How long do we keep bringing Neil Smith up as well? Check your calendar --it's 2004.

The Chiefs, and any other team for that matter, will not be drafting Derrick Thomas. And pardon my memory, but these guys were not "leaders" out of the box. I feel your frustration but let's not get delusional. The draft is like going to Las Vegas on a road trip in a AMC Pacer with a casstte player duct taped to the dash. Yea, there's a chance you'll drive home in a Corvette but it's a GAMBLE. It's not THE SOLUTION it's part of it. If you would like to see the Chiefs lose to the Raiders under any circumstance then I certainly have the option of calling you misguided...


---->

Logical
12-06-2004, 02:27 AM
Sorry.
Can we let DT RIP? How long do we keep bringing Neil Smith up as well? Check your calendar --it's 2004.

The Chiefs, and any other team for that matter, will not be drafting Derrick Thomas. And pardon my memory, but these guys were not "leaders" out of the box. I feel your frustration but let's not get delusional. The draft is like going to Las Vegas on a road trip in a AMC Pacer with a casstte player duct taped to the dash. Yea, there's a chance you'll drive home in a Corvette but it's a GAMBLE. It's not THE SOLUTION it's part of it. If you would like to see the Chiefs lose to the Raiders under any circumstance then I certainly have the option of calling you misguided...


---->

I do not remember Neil being a leader right off the bat, but DT was, so there I am going to disagree with you.

2bikemike
12-06-2004, 02:33 AM
I do not remember Neil being a leader right off the bat, but DT was, so there I am going to disagree with you.

I really don't remember if DT was or wasn't a team leader his rookie year. He was definately an impact player. But there was a lot of veteran leadership on that team.

2bikemike
12-06-2004, 02:40 AM
I would also like to point out to Valiant that even though DT was quite a stud his rookie year the Chiefs record for 89 was 8-7-1

And for Neil Smiths rookie year a whopping 4-11-1.

Amnorix
12-06-2004, 07:49 AM
I see your view in way. But I have heard this, You are better winning your last few games because it carries into the next year. I do believe that. Why lose the rest of your games? That would tear you team apart. Play for next year. Right now that is what they are doing.

Very little carries from year to year. VERY little. The last few games in a non-playoff season, to me, do not have one single iota of impact on the next year. All that those games are good for is self-scouting / post mortem to see who had heart and showed up to play when there was every reason in the world to dog it.

Amnorix
12-06-2004, 07:50 AM
I'm not sure that head 2 head matters in draft pick rankings.

Right. Head to head is NOT a tiebreaker for draft pick purposes. It's strength of schedule.

Dartgod
12-06-2004, 08:11 AM
I can't believe people are actually pissed because we won yesterday. :shake:

Messier
12-06-2004, 09:36 AM
"Root root root for the home team, if they don't win it's a shame."

This should hold true for most fans.

KCTitus
12-06-2004, 09:41 AM
I can't believe people are actually pissed because we won yesterday. :shake:

Im not...pretty much SOP for Jim since April of 2003.

Dr. Facebook Fever
12-06-2004, 09:59 AM
The Chiefs cannot even lose when they need to, screwing up our draft choice for no gain.:banghead:
You're a truly lost soul. When you'd rather lose for draft position than win you should really consider becoming a Raiders fan.

Besides, didn't you hear??? We're STILL in the playoff race!

:spock:

Logical
12-06-2004, 10:08 AM
You're a truly lost soul. When you'd rather lose for draft position than win you should really consider becoming a Raiders fan.

Besides, didn't you hear??? We're STILL in the playoff race!

:spock:
I assume that was a misguided attempt at humor. There is no way on earth I want this POS defensive team to somehow slip into the playoffs to embarrass themselves and us again.:shake:

KCTitus
12-06-2004, 10:11 AM
...There is no way on earth I want this POS defensive team to somehow slip into the playoffs to embarrass themselves and us again.:shake:

Why not? It would bring you so much joy...

Logical
12-06-2004, 10:16 AM
Why not? It would bring you so much joy...:shake:

For two reasons the embarrassment and it would cause Carl to sit on his dead ass just like last offseason. As piss poor as Carl is doing something is still better than doing nothing other than raising prices.

CanadaKC
12-06-2004, 10:21 AM
Look on the bright side....McNair is probably playing next week...and Jeff Fisher will no doubt outcoach us. Had it not been for that blocked fieldgoal...the Titans had a chance. This with a backup QB and many injuries....including their RB Chris Brown...with turf toe. I watched that game...and the Titans look less like a 4-8 team than we do.

JazzzLovr
12-06-2004, 10:24 AM
I assume that was a misguided attempt at humor. There is no way on earth I want this POS defensive team to somehow slip into the playoffs to embarrass themselves and us again.:shake:

I believe he was referring to this thread (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=105800).

KCTitus
12-06-2004, 10:24 AM
:shake:

For two reasons the embarrassment and it would cause Carl to sit on his dead ass just like last offseason. As piss poor as Carl is doing something is still better than doing nothing other than raising prices.

Why would you be embarrased? Wouldnt you be celebrating the victory after having invested all your personal stock in KC's failure since last year?

As for whether Carl does something or nothing, there's one thing for sure, you wont like it and as such, you cant have your cake and eat it too, here.

bricks
12-06-2004, 10:25 AM
Look on the bright side....McNair is probably playing next week...and Jeff Fisher will no doubt outcoach us. Had it not been for that blocked fieldgoal...the Titans had a chance. This with a backup QB and many injuries....including their RB Chris Brown...with turf toe. I watched that game...and the Titans look less like a 4-8 team than we do.

yeah but, you gotta remember, it is a divisional game. Just like when we play the Raiders or broncos. Teams play better when they play their divisional rivals.

Logical
12-06-2004, 10:27 AM
I believe he was referring to this thread (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=105800).Which is why I allowed for it to possibly be a misguided attempt at humor.

Logical
12-06-2004, 10:34 AM
Why would you be embarrased? Wouldnt you be celebrating the victory after having invested all your personal stock in KC's failure since last year?

As for whether Carl does something or nothing, there's one thing for sure, you wont like it and as such, you cant have your cake and eat it too, here.

NO

Possibly true, but I actually liked the draft when Sims was selected and the 2nd day of that draft. While I felt Holiday was a reach, I like many others liked the Barber pick-up and thought McCleon could be a good nickel back. I thought going for Morton was a good move and was disappointed when we failed to land McCardell. So you are incorrect to assume that I always think we make bad draft choices and free agent moves.

Ultra Peanut
12-06-2004, 10:55 AM
Vlad has a purple head.

philfree
12-06-2004, 11:58 AM
I watched that game...and the Titans look less like a 4-8 team than we do.

Is that they why they onside kicked three times in a row to strart the game? ROFL

PhilFree :arrow:

Logical
12-06-2004, 12:03 PM
Vlad has a purple head.

I am sure this is funny :bong:

KCTitus
12-06-2004, 12:13 PM
I watched that game...and the Titans look less like a 4-8 team than we do.

Just a point of clarification, but KC did actually beat Indy, right?

Rausch
12-06-2004, 12:19 PM
Just a point of clarification, but KC did actually beat Indy, right?

No. That game was actually over in the beginning of the 2nd quarter, so the win is moot...

bogie
12-06-2004, 01:41 PM
I've heard mention that one off season will not fix our D next year either. Therefore, let's hope for a losing season next year so the year after we get good draft picks.

Rausch
12-06-2004, 01:49 PM
I've heard mention that one off season will not fix our D next year either. Therefore, let's hope for a losing season next year so the year after we get good draft picks. ROFL

Logical
12-06-2004, 02:40 PM
I've heard mention that one off season will not fix our D next year either. Therefore, let's hope for a losing season next year so the year after we get good draft picks.


If we start off 3-8 I will be on that like white on rice again next year.

bogie
12-06-2004, 02:46 PM
If we start off 3-8 I will be on that like white on rice again next year.

Why wait for 3-8. Here's hoping for 0-11 start, and a great 2006!

Valiant
12-06-2004, 03:36 PM
I would also like to point out to Valiant that even though DT was quite a stud his rookie year the Chiefs record for 89 was 8-7-1

And for Neil Smiths rookie year a whopping 4-11-1.


And how many striaght playoff appearances after that from them two alone???

el borracho
12-06-2004, 03:44 PM
Valiant, please see and respond to post #112.

ck_IN
12-06-2004, 03:56 PM
Any win over the Spawn of Satan, aka Oakland, is a good win.

I'll take it and be happy. If it costs us a level or two in the draft the knowledge that we beat Oakland will be worth it.

Logical
12-06-2004, 04:00 PM
Valiant, please see and respond to post #112.


I am not Valiant but let me offer that though no top 5 DEs exist in my mind Antrel Rolle at CB would more than make up for the loss of Derrick Johnson.

el borracho
12-06-2004, 04:07 PM
Yeah, admittedly I am no expert but I have not seen or heard mention anywhere of a top 5 DE in this draft. I fully expect that Rolle and Johnson will be gone before we pick (even if we were to pick 5th) and I also believe the Chiefs would be better served signing a free-agent CB and at least one free-agent LB. All of this leaves me ok with drafting 7, 8 or 9 and having the best DE prospect available to us. IMO the Chiefs should draft a DE in the 1st, a LB in the 2nd, and a CB or WR in the 3rd after signing a free-agent CB and a free-agent LB and hopefully a free-agent WR.

Logical
12-06-2004, 04:12 PM
Yeah, admittedly I am no expert but I have not seen or heard mention anywhere of a top 5 DE in this draft. I fully expect that Rolle and Johnson will be gone before we pick (even if we were to pick 5th) and I also believe the Chiefs would be better served signing a free-agent CB and at least one free-agent LB. All of this leaves me ok with drafting 7, 8 or 9 and having the best DE prospect available to us. IMO the Chiefs should draft a DE in the 1st, a LB in the 2nd, and a CB or WR in the 3rd after signing a free-agent CB and a free-agent LB and hopefully a free-agent WR.

Most Mocks are showing Leinhart QB, Rodgers QB Williams WR or Ferguson OT going in the top three. Rolle and DJ are commonly shown somewhere between 5th and 8th with Rolle occasionally showing up 4th.

Logical
12-06-2004, 04:15 PM
el borracho,

The other problem I see is we are likely to go for a guy like Braylon Edwards if we drop to 8th or 9th. While certainly a good pick I want a defender in the first round. Besides which for all his talent guess what his problem is, yup dropped balls.

ChiefsOne
12-06-2004, 04:34 PM
Guaranteed that the only ones wanting us to pick in the top 5 are the fans. The players don't want to lose just to get a top pick, plus that would mean someone would be replacing one of them. The coaches don't want it either because they are wanting to salvage some of their season.

2bikemike
12-06-2004, 05:40 PM
And how many striaght playoff appearances after that from them two alone???

If you think those 2 alone got us in the playoffs your crazy. They played with some perrenial pro bowlers. Guys who were here before them.
Get off the DT and Neil Smith comparisons.

My whole point is that Next years draft pick is not going to turn this team around over night. Even if its the #1 pick in the draft.

philfree
12-06-2004, 07:02 PM
My whole point is that Next years draft pick is not going to turn this team around over night. Even if its the #1 pick in the draft.

I wonder how many teams that have earned a top 5 draft pick have made the post season let alone win it all the next year? I guessing zero (0)?

PhilFree :arrow:

Logical
12-06-2004, 08:08 PM
I wonder how many teams that have earned a top 5 draft pick have made the post season let alone win it all the next year? I guessing zero (0)?

PhilFree :arrow:You would be wrong on making the post season and the whole enchilada. Hell San Diego could do it this year.

As to winning it all the Ravens had the 5th pick in the draft the year they won the Super Bowl and picked Jamal Lewis. The Panthers had the 2nd pick in the draft the year before going to the Super Bowl and picked Julius Peppers. The Rams had the 6th pick the year the won the Super Bowl and picked Torry Holt

So that blows your theory right out of the water.

philfree
12-06-2004, 08:19 PM
So that blows your theory right out of the water.

It really wasn't a theory I just wondered and guessed. Of course I now have to wonder how many of those teams went 13-3 the year before they had such luck? And the Chargers ain't won a playoff game yet so............I hope Marty takes'em all the way..........


PhilFree :arrow:

Straight, No Chaser
12-06-2004, 08:24 PM
You would be wrong on making the post season and the whole enchilada. Hell San Diego could do it this year. :shake:
Since when are you jumpin' a wagon with pilot Schottenhiemer?
Weak. Very Weak. Might as well say Buffalo's got a chance.


This thread is treading water.
There's two camps: one thinks a win over a long-time hated rival is something to celebrate and take pride in; the other camp prefers to de-value the game and the efforts of the players and coaches so, until draft day, they have something to talk about.


---->

Logical
12-06-2004, 09:06 PM
:shake:
Since when are you jumpin' a wagon with pilot Schottenhiemer?
Weak. Very Weak. Might as well say Buffalo's got a chance.


This thread is treading water.
There's two camps: one thinks a win over a long-time hated rival is something to celebrate and take pride in; the other camp prefers to de-value the game and the efforts of the players and coaches so, until draft day, they have something to talk about.


---->

I think you misunderstood me. I was only suggesting that San Diego will likely make the playoffs not win the whole thing. Phil had suggested that no teams that had finished with a top 5 pick had even went to the playoffs.

Jenson71
12-06-2004, 09:10 PM
Jim is a balla, shot calla
Wanna be as bad as Vlad the Impala
Impala, what you say tonight bout LJ
You says he had an easy day, day-a-a
Versus the Raidads
But yous just a hata
Mad bout your small shlong
But you got it all wrong
Yous a negative ho...HO

Logical
12-06-2004, 09:15 PM
Jim is a balla, shot calla
Wanna be as bad as Vlad the Impala
Impala, what you say tonight bout LJ
You says he had an easy day, day-a-a
Versus the Raidads
But yous just a hata
Mad bout your small shlong
But you got it all wrong
Yous a negative ho...HO


Actually I have been complimentary of LJs game. How could you miss that. I said I was happy for his fans just not for LJ the azzwipe.

By the way you are no FAX.:shake:

philfree
12-06-2004, 09:16 PM
Phil had suggested that no teams that had finished with a top 5 pick had even went to the playoffs.

No I wondered and guessed with the hope that someome would bring out the facts. I knew that with the Cinderella stories that have unfolded the last 5 years I was probably gonna get some sort of repremand. :shrug:


PhilFree :arrow:

Jenson71
12-06-2004, 09:30 PM
Actually I have been complimentary of LJs game. How could you miss that. I said I was happy for his fans just not for LJ the azzwipe.

By the way you are no FAX.:shake:

I haven't even looked at any other posts on any chiefs related thread...I just had to bust a poem, ya know?

tommykat
12-06-2004, 09:56 PM
The Chiefs cannot even lose when they need to, screwing up our draft choice for no gain.:banghead:

??? no I will not read all of this but Jim.........I sorta understand, but why not KNOCK THE faiders and donks out of the playoffs if they can? I understand picks, but DEAR father......why would you want them to loose?

JazzzLovr
12-06-2004, 09:59 PM
??? no I will not read all of this but Jim.........I sorta understand, but why not KNOCK THE faiders and donks out of the playoffs if they can? I understand picks, but DEAR father......why would you want them to loose?

Does anyone else find it disturbing when the Voice of Reason belongs to tommykat?

tommykat
12-06-2004, 10:11 PM
Does anyone else find it disturbing when the Voice of Reason belongs to tommykat?

:shake: ;)