PDA

View Full Version : The Defense...


Gaz
12-06-2004, 06:45 AM
You can color me stunned. I was certain that two minutes was plenty of time for the Raiders top march down the field and sent it to overtime. Instead, the D brought the heat on Collins and forced some bad throws.

The Defense sealed a victory. Sure, they were abused for the vast majority of the game. The TD romp after the screen pass was particularly humiliating [hit the one with the ball, guys]. Collins had WAY too much time and no interior pressure. Another sub-par performance from a sub-par group.

Still...


THE CHIEFS DEFENSE SEALED A VICTORY!

xoxo~
Gaz
As amazed as the next guy.

MichaelH
12-06-2004, 06:48 AM
I had to listen to the game on the net and watch gamecast on NFL.com. The defense made way too many mistakes but they actually sounded better. Maybe the younger talent in the secondary is the way to go.

Braincase
12-06-2004, 06:57 AM
I had to listen to the game on the net and watch gamecast on NFL.com. The defense made way too many mistakes but they actually sounded better. Maybe the younger talent in the secondary is the way to go.

With young players and Gunther's scheme, you might be onto something. I would, however, get rid of the d-backs coach and replace him with one of Gunther's choosing.

Gaz
12-06-2004, 07:02 AM
The Chiefs D looked good at times and pathetic at other times. There is a lot of work to do in the off-season. Maybe too much for a single off-season. And I would not be surprised to see them fold like cheap suits in the next game. It has been that kind of year.

Still, for the first time in a long time, the Chiefs Defense held off The Enemy a sealed a victory. That is wonderful.

That they did it to the Raiders in Oakland, with the “Black Hole” Halloweenies watching is simply priceless.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders if Raider Fan makeup runs when wet.

Count Alex's Losses
12-06-2004, 07:07 AM
Gaz, you need to restore your avatar.

Did you enjoy the pencil-neck crushings? You should get yourself a Jared Allen jersey for XMAS. A true neck crusher.

MichaelH
12-06-2004, 07:10 AM
With young players and Gunther's scheme, you might be onto something. I would, however, get rid of the d-backs coach and replace him with one of Gunther's choosing.


I agree. It's hard to imagine Gunther trying to coach anyone with remnants from the former defensive coaching staff.

Tuckdaddy
12-06-2004, 07:35 AM
7 points allowed in second half. That's solid defense. Good for them.

Earthling
12-06-2004, 07:37 AM
There was occationally some pretty hard hitting by our D in this game...At one time I found myself muttering 'Damn..Who are these guys?'

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 07:44 AM
Sorry Gaz,

I've been to shocked beyond belief to have a rational response.

It may take me until the end of the day to rationalize my thoughts.

Devin Vierth
12-06-2004, 07:52 AM
There was occationally some pretty hard hitting by our D in this game...At one time I found myself muttering 'Damn..Who are these guys?'

I agree, they looked like a different defense in the second half. They came out with some passion and started making hits. I was wondering if Gun chewed them a new one at half time.

Whatever it was, they held the faids to only 7 the second half and on the road that is good defense. Maybe, just maybe some of the young guys are starting to learn the "D".

However, I will withhold judgement on that until the end of the season. Today I will bask in the positives.

Gaz
12-06-2004, 07:58 AM
Yesterday did not change my mind about the 2004 Chiefs Defense.

We still need MLB, CB, OLB & DE. I saw very little pressure up the middle from the front four and teams can sucker Allen out of a play far to easily. Our LBs are weak [although Caver and Mitchell played their best game, IMO]. Our secondary is still a disaster, with WRs WIDE open WAY too often. This is not a good Defense.

Still, it was sweet to see Collins knocked around. And the Chiefs Defense sealed a victory. When is the last time THAT happened?

So, let there we rejoicing [however short-lived it may prove to be].

xoxo~
Gaz
Happy for his D [for a change].

Devin Vierth
12-06-2004, 08:01 AM
Gaz,

Ditto. But the young guys on the team are getting better. And I do not put the CBs in the young guys catagory.

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 08:01 AM
Yesterday did not change my mind about the 2004 Chiefs Defense.

We still need MLB, CB, OLB & DE. I saw very little pressure up the middle from the front four and teams can sucker Allen out of a play far to easily. Our LBs are weak [although Caver and Mitchell played their best game, IMO]. Our secondary is still a disaster, with WRs WIDE open WAY too often. This is not a good Defense.

Still, it was sweet to see Collins knocked around. And the Chiefs Defense sealed a victory. When is the last time THAT happened?

So, let there we rejoicing [however short-lived it may prove to be].

xoxo~
Gaz
Happy for his D [for a change].



Sorry little buddy, I saw just as many if not more wiffs by Mitchell than I actually saw tackles, what did he have 2 - 3 tackles ?

That's sad to say he had his best game playing the way he did . :shake:

NewChief
12-06-2004, 08:02 AM
Sorry little buddy, I saw just as many if not more wiffs by Mitchell than I actually saw tackles, what did he have 2 - 3 tackles ?

That's sad to say he had his best game palying the way he did . :shake:

No kidding. Mitchell was baaaaad. He had several chances to light people up over the middle. Not only did he fail to lay the wood, he usually failed to even make the tackle. I want to see some headhunting going on from our secondary and linebacking corps.

the Talking Can
12-06-2004, 08:04 AM
maybe Mitchell needs glasses?

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 08:06 AM
maybe Mitchell needs glasses?

Maybe instead of seeing 4 or 6 people with the ball, he would see 2 or 3, therefore improving his chances to make a tackle . ROFL

Gaz
12-06-2004, 08:08 AM
Astute readers will note that I listed MLB as our #1 need and gave grudging credit to Caver and Mitchell for playing better than they have. “Better” does not in and of itself equate to “good.”

xoxo~
Gaz
Blames society and the school system.

the Talking Can
12-06-2004, 08:11 AM
Maybe instead of seeing 4 or 6 people with the ball, he would see 2 or 3, therefore improving his chances to make a tackle . ROFL

he needs to wear a prescription pair of these over his helmet:

http://www.sporteyes.com/recspecs%20soft%20touch.jpg

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 08:13 AM
Astute readers will note that I listed MLB as our #1 need and gave grudging credit to Caver and Mitchell for playing better than they have. “Better” does not in and of itself equate to “good.”

xoxo~
Gaz
Blames society and the school system.


Understanding the seperation of the two comments, but the fact that I was commenting was, In now way can I praise Mitchell for looking better
when he missed ( wiffed ) more tackles than a Dave Kingman wiff'n it, swinging for the fences.

There is only one word for Mitchells performance........ poor . BTA, we could proballythink of a few select others )

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 08:16 AM
Caver has not been stellar, but solid as Barbers fill in.He has earned his keep, but is an UFA, I believe at years end .

Sad to say this, but if Fox was selected to replace Barber in the future, he ismn't making very good ground.

DaWolf
12-06-2004, 08:19 AM
The amazing thing is we held them to under 30 while not forcing a single turnover on the road. It's pretty hard to play a Gunther Cunningham scheme and win without forcing a turnover. So while I ain't gonna give the defense props, good job by them for stepping up at the end of a game to win it...

greg63
12-06-2004, 08:19 AM
The Raider running game was, for the most part, held in check. What kept Oakland in the game was the Chiefs Defensive Secondary. But, the "D" stepped up when it was most important and sealed the win, finally delivering a close victory.

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 08:24 AM
Oakland abanded the run.... wasn't because we could really clamp down hard onthem, they thought they could go thru the air against us better.

Running the ball what, 10 times all game is basically saying, we want to pass it.

Post game comments from Turner..... we wanted to throw the ballon them, we didn't want to run it that much. We felt we could score often by passing the ball.

Gaz
12-06-2004, 08:29 AM
It has to be a huge psychological boost to the Defense. Sure, the Raiders moved the ball at will, but the D forced The Enemy to settle for field goals to start the game, knocked Collins around quite a bit, forced a few 3-and-outs and kept The Enemy out of the end zone with the game on the line.

No, they are not a good Defense. But yesterday, they did the job asked of them. After the Chiefs O nodded off in the 2nd Quarter, the Defense held the Raiders to 7 points in the 2nd Half, giving the O the opportunity to come back. The final series had me on the edge of my seat, because I fully expected the Raiders to march down and score. But the D held.

You do not have to claim that the Defense is good in order to give them props for yesterday’s game. Quit being so stingy and give them a teaspoon of love.

Congratulations to the Chiefs Defense. You were an integral part of our victory. Glad to have you aboard.

xoxo~
Gaz
Firm believer in positive reinforcement.

the Talking Can
12-06-2004, 08:32 AM
yeah, your right...they were good enough yesterday

they'll have a fond memory to comfort them when they get canned in a few weeks...

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 08:33 AM
It has to be a huge psychological boost to the Defense. Sure, the Raiders moved the ball at will, but the D forced The Enemy to settle for field goals to start the game, knocked Collins around quite a bit, forced a few 3-and-outs and kept The Enemy out of the end zone with the game on the line.

No, they are not a good Defense. But yesterday, they did the job asked of them. After the Chiefs O nodded off in the 2nd Quarter, the Defense held the Raiders to 7 points in the 2nd Half, giving the O the opportunity to come back. The final series had me on the edge of my seat, because I fully expected the Raiders to march down and score. But the D held.

You do not have to claim that the Defense is good in order to give them props for yesterday’s game. Quit being so stingy and give them a teaspoon of love.

Congratulations to the Chiefs Defense. You were an integral part of our victory. Glad to have you aboard.

xoxo~
Gaz
Firm believer in positive reinforcement.



Nope, notta, that's too much ! A bread crum, that's it. Nothing more ! :D

Gaz
12-06-2004, 08:38 AM
And I have no doubt that they WILL get canned again. I am not fooling myself that this is a good Defense. I was screaming at Vermeil to go for it on 4th down on the O’s abortive trips to the red zone. I did not want to put the game in the hands of the Defense.

However, the Defense proved me wrong. They were equal partners in yesterday’s win. Instead of being dragged and kicking by the Offense and Special Teams, the Defense contributed in a major way to a Chiefs win.

How long has it been since we could say that?

xoxo~
Gaz
Surprised, but pleased.

OldTownChief
12-06-2004, 08:45 AM
ok FINE....Props to the pathedic D.

ROYC75
12-06-2004, 08:45 AM
Gaz, howbeit that I am stil in disbelief that our D held Oakland on the last drive, I'm still believing that it's just as much Oaklands inability to play calling as it is our defense.

But a win is a win.

the Talking Can
12-06-2004, 08:51 AM
kcstar (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/10347818.htm)

Posted on Mon, Dec. 06, 2004

SEALING THE DEAL

Chiefs' beleaguered defense savors fourth-quarter shutdown

By IVAN CARTER

The Kansas City Star

OAKLAND, Calif. — Jared Allen might only be a rookie, but he sure has a way of summarizing things when it comes to the 2004 Chiefs. It was Allen who stood up in the midst of a happy Chiefs locker room after Sunday's thrilling 34-27 victory over the Oakland Raiders and spoke words that were no doubt uttered by Chiefs fans nationwide.

“It's about time we closed a game out in the fourth quarter,” Allen shouted. “Man it felt good to put this one away.”

Before Sunday, the Chiefs entered the fourth quarter either tied or holding a lead eight times this season. They won three of those games. That's why the Chiefs — and their fans — could have been forgiven if they said, “Here we go again” as the fourth quarter started Sunday with the Chiefs holding a 24-20 lead. Those feelings of dread appeared to be justified when Raiders quarterback Kerry Collins hooked up with Ronald Curry for a 26-yard touchdown pass two plays into the quarter.

However, the Chiefs were able to beat a hated rival and pull out their first win in more than a month because they came through in the clutch, scoring 10 fourth-quarter points on a Lawrence Tynes 22-yard field goal and a 70-yard Trent Green-to-Eddie Kennison touchdown pass while the defense stopped the Raiders on their last two drives.

Some of the happiest members of the Kansas City traveling party were members of the league's most-kicked around defense. A handful of plays stood out:

• Three plays after Tynes tied the score at 27-27 with his field goal, the Raiders faced third and 2 at their 36. Collins evaded a sack by Ryan Sims, rolled to his right and zipped a pass to Curry, who broke a tackle and began to weave his way through the Kansas City secondary. At the precise moment when it looked as if Curry was about to turn the corner and log his third long touchdown of the game, safety Willie Pile wrapped him up and brought him down for a 22-yard gain.

Curry, who has been an emerging star and who caught nine passes for 141 yards and two touchdowns Sunday, suffered a season-ending torn Achilles' tendon on the play. Pile's tackle turned out to be crucial because the Chiefs forced Oakland to punt four plays later.

“That's just a case where I knew I was the last line of defense and I knew I had to make the tackle,” said Pile, who played against Curry, then a quarterback, when the two were high school players in Virginia. “He's a strong, strong runner and you really have to wrap him up or he will break the tackle and start running. We let him do that to us earlier in the game.”

• With 1 minute, 10 seconds remaining, Oakland faced second and 10 at the Kansas City 46 when Chiefs reserve defensive end Gary Stills beat left tackle Barry Sims and sacked Collins for a 9-yard loss. The sack was big because not only was Collins unable to get downfield, but the Raiders were also forced to burn a timeout. Stills came free by using the kind spin move that would have made Earl “The Pearl” Monroe proud.

“I just wanted to get up field on him and spin back inside,” said Stills, who has been used sparingly as a pass rusher this season and entered Sunday's game with one sack. “It's not like I saved the spin move for that situation, it just worked out that way and I was able to get to him.”

• The other key was Oakland's inability — and unwillingness — to mount any kind of a running game. The Raiders, who were playing without starting running back Tyrone Wheatley, who is out for the season because of a hamstring injury, ran the ball four times for 22 yards in the first half and only 10 times for 30 yards for the game. The total lack of a running attack allowed the Chiefs' defenders to pin their ears back and go after Collins, something they had success doing late in the game. Collins was sacked only twice, but he was hit several other times and was rushed during Oakland's final two drives.

“We were able to really get a pass rush going and get after him in the second half,” defensive end Eric Hicks said.

“That was key because it allowed us to make some plays. It just feels so good to win a game by playing some good defense down the stretch. We really needed this.”

Gaz
12-06-2004, 09:19 AM
Thank you, Ivan, for showing these stingy grumps how it is done.

xoxo~
Gaz
Enjoying his visions of Gunther’s 2005 D.

Otter
12-06-2004, 09:52 AM
Chiefs vs. Raiders always brings out hard hitting and the players seem to step up a notch on both sides of the ball when called upon.

Just when you think that the new guys weren't around for the bad blood of yester-year and won't get caught up in the rivalry you see a different team on the field than your used to.

It was nice to watch the rise but somthing tells me Gunther is still driving a Hugo at the end of the day.

bricks
12-06-2004, 10:06 AM
This defense needs to improve there overall front seven to help out that secondary. More importantly, improve the front four. We need a pass rusher, nobody on that D-line is a passrusher, except Allen, and he is a rookie. Sims, Hicks, and Dalton ALL stink when it comes to pass-rush. Hicks simply needs to go. Get a pass ruher in the off-season, and our secondary will look better. More importantly, they need to fire Peter Giunta. And get a pair of safeties as well.

Devin Vierth
12-06-2004, 10:17 AM
I agree, they looked like a different defense in the second half. They came out with some passion and started making hits. I was wondering if Gun chewed them a new one at half time.

Yep, just as I thought:

CUNNINGHAM: At half-time, the Chiefs defensive coordinator was nearly out of his mind. The frustration of the season and the poor play of the defense had built up to a crescendo in his head. On top of all that was a first-half performance that was an embarrassment. Kerry Collins threw for 190 yards and a pair of TD passes in just 26 offensive plays. The secondary was beaten for 51 and 34-yard scores.

It was more than Cunningham could handle. At half-time, he exploded like he hasn’t during this entire return to KC season. His words were brutal and frank and can’t be repeated verbatim here. The premise was this: he was tired of the secondary embarrassing the team and the entire franchise.

“I probably should not have done that at half-time, but I couldn’t stand it,” Cunningham said. “We were awful. We sucked and there was no reason for it. We were killing ourselves.”

The Chiefs went out in the second half and probably played their best 30 minutes of defensive football in weeks, maybe months. They allowed only one score and gave up 153 yards of offense. Collins was sacked twice and harassed on nearly every ball he threw. The Chiefs got their hands on several passes and Eric Warfield dropped an interception. The Chiefs were more physical and more assignment sound.

“He challenged the entire group,” said Eric Hicks. Added LB Kawika Mitchell: “We had to answer his call. There was nowhere else for us to go.”

Now I hope he does it everyday, the rest of the season.

cash1000
12-06-2004, 10:21 AM
The retarDed Raiders offense rolled up 27 ponits and 350 yards passing in just 20-some minutes of possession time. The Chiefs offense saved the defenses ass by keeping them off the field most of the second half. Despite pathetic pass protection , no running game and weird play calling the still put up 350 yards passing and 27 points on a crappy Chiefs defense. WHAT IF THEY HAD MORE TIME? They'd have put up the 35 points and 400 yards of offense everybody else gets on the Chiefs!

Gaz
12-06-2004, 10:26 AM
WHAT IF THEY HAD MORE TIME?

What if they were awarded 12 points for a TD?
What if they were allowed to put 326 men on the field?
What if they could tunnel under the stadium and pop up in the end zone?

xoxo~
Gaz
No longer amazed by the foolishness around here.

cash1000
12-06-2004, 10:30 AM
Hey the Chiefs won and defense played great they don't need to overhaul the defense lets do it again next year!

Gaz
12-06-2004, 10:33 AM
Hey the Chiefs won and defense played great they don't need to overhaul the defense lets do it again next year!

Yet another ridiculous statement. Not quite as innocently amusing as “WHAT IF THEY HAD MORE TIME?” but just as silly in its own right.

xoxo~
Gaz
Slack-jawed in amazement at the font of foolishness.

beer bacon
12-06-2004, 10:35 AM
Hey the Chiefs won and defense played great they don't need to overhaul the defense lets do it again next year!

Did you read of the other posts made by Gaz in this thread? Your above post makes you look pretty dumb considering Gaz has said several times that we still need to cut most of the D and hire a bunch of new guys.

Wile_E_Coyote
12-06-2004, 10:35 AM
Yep, just as I thought:

CUNNINGHAM: At half-time, the Chiefs defensive coordinator was nearly out of his mind. The frustration of the season and the poor play of the defense had built up to a crescendo in his head. On top of all that was a first-half performance that was an embarrassment. Kerry Collins threw for 190 yards and a pair of TD passes in just 26 offensive plays. The secondary was beaten for 51 and 34-yard scores.

It was more than Cunningham could handle. At half-time, he exploded like he hasn’t during this entire return to KC season. His words were brutal and frank and can’t be repeated verbatim here. The premise was this: he was tired of the secondary embarrassing the team and the entire franchise.

“I probably should not have done that at half-time, but I couldn’t stand it,” Cunningham said. “We were awful. We sucked and there was no reason for it. We were killing ourselves.”

The Chiefs went out in the second half and probably played their best 30 minutes of defensive football in weeks, maybe months. They allowed only one score and gave up 153 yards of offense. Collins was sacked twice and harassed on nearly every ball he threw. The Chiefs got their hands on several passes and Eric Warfield dropped an interception. The Chiefs were more physical and more assignment sound.

“He challenged the entire group,” said Eric Hicks. Added LB Kawika Mitchell: “We had to answer his call. There was nowhere else for us to go.”

Now I hope he does it everyday, the rest of the season.

I caught some of Gun's post game press conference. He said, he spent alot of time last week working with Harts & Pile. Though he didn't praise them, he said they only made a couple of small mistakes.

greg63
12-06-2004, 10:36 AM
Oakland abanded the run.... wasn't because we could really clamp down hard onthem, they thought they could go thru the air against us better.

Running the ball what, 10 times all game is basically saying, we want to pass it.

Post game comments from Turner..... we wanted to throw the ballon them, we didn't want to run it that much. We felt we could score often by passing the ball.

I agree, but I think they attacked our defense through the air because that is where we are most vulnerable, thus keeping the running game, what little running game there was, in check. They did have some good runs, but they where in the secondary after the catch. I give the run defense credit simply because they were perceived as stronger in this area, which is why the week secondary was challenged and dissected.

cash1000
12-06-2004, 10:38 AM
Then what the point of talking about the defense doing something good but then saying they still suck? My point is they suck and they didn't do anything to win the game yesterday the offense won the game by keeping their sorry butts off the field!!!!!

Gaz
12-06-2004, 10:41 AM
Reading is important.

Stay in school kids.

xoxo~
Gaz
Using the opportunity.

Otter
12-06-2004, 10:47 AM
Yep, just as I thought:

CUNNINGHAM: At half-time, the Chiefs defensive coordinator was nearly out of his mind. The frustration of the season and the poor play of the defense had built up to a crescendo in his head. On top of all that was a first-half performance that was an embarrassment. Kerry Collins threw for 190 yards and a pair of TD passes in just 26 offensive plays. The secondary was beaten for 51 and 34-yard scores.

It was more than Cunningham could handle. At half-time, he exploded like he hasn’t during this entire return to KC season. His words were brutal and frank and can’t be repeated verbatim here. The premise was this: he was tired of the secondary embarrassing the team and the entire franchise.

“I probably should not have done that at half-time, but I couldn’t stand it,” Cunningham said. “We were awful. We sucked and there was no reason for it. We were killing ourselves.”

The Chiefs went out in the second half and probably played their best 30 minutes of defensive football in weeks, maybe months. They allowed only one score and gave up 153 yards of offense. Collins was sacked twice and harassed on nearly every ball he threw. The Chiefs got their hands on several passes and Eric Warfield dropped an interception. The Chiefs were more physical and more assignment sound.

“He challenged the entire group,” said Eric Hicks. Added LB Kawika Mitchell: “We had to answer his call. There was nowhere else for us to go.”

Now I hope he does it everyday, the rest of the season.

I would have loved to been fly on the wall during that tirade.

Warrior5
12-06-2004, 10:51 AM
Two things:

1. You are correct in stating that Oakland abandoned the run. They didn't even try, knowing full well they could pass at will. FWIW, Chiefs rank about 16th in the NFL in rushing D.

2. Gaz thinks that you're not an astute reader. You gonna take that?