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Gaz
12-08-2004, 09:51 AM
Let us see if there is anything close to consensus.

xoxo~
Gaz
Doubts it.

MichaelH
12-08-2004, 09:53 AM
Agreed! I think a MLB is the strongest need followed by a good corner.

big nasty kcnut
12-08-2004, 09:54 AM
We need a corner first then a good linebacker.

Rain Man
12-08-2004, 09:55 AM
While we have several areas of glaring need, I have come to the conclusion that a middle linebacker with murderous intent would be best for us.

Why? Two reasons.

1. You can't really play call away from a middle linebacker. He's positioned to go sideline to sideline.

2. Our middle linebacker position is the weakest position on the team. If we had an above-average middle linebacker this year, it would've made a world of difference.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 09:55 AM
1st Scenario:
Draft Defense (1st round)
Sign FA Offense

2nd Scenario
Draft Offense (1st round)
Sign FA Defense

For me, it all depends on who is on the board. I don't feel comfortable drafting a CB and calling that an "upgrade" to our secondary. I'd feel much more comfortable drafting a LB and calling that an "upgrade." I feel the way the game is played now, having a good "shutdown" CB is overrated, as they can't even cover WR's anymore without getting flagged. I'm not saying our secondary is any good, but I don't feel a rookie CB would help us at all. I'd rather us sign a FA CB.

So..looking back at what I said:

1. Draft Derrick Johnson
2. Sign a FA CB
3. Sign a FA WR

OR

1. Draft a WR (Braylon Edwards, Mark Clayton)
2. Sign a FA LB
3. Sign a FA CB

Otter
12-08-2004, 09:55 AM
I'm up in the air with a MLB or DE, both are in pretty bad shape and would hold back progress if not addressed.

Julius Peppers and Ray Lewis in free agency?

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 09:56 AM
Do people have any faith in Maslowski coming back?

How comfortable are people with Beisel in the middle?

Is Kawika a total bust at this point? Will he improve?

milkman
12-08-2004, 09:57 AM
I've been saying this consistently for years now, a fact that is really a sad commentary on the Chiefs inabilty to fix the problem, the front seven are the most important facet of any D.

The fact that NE is still playing pretty solid football on D, as I've said a few times this season, only illustrates that point.

I want a MLB.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 09:58 AM
CB is down the list because the new PI rules reduce their effectiveness.

DE is important [see new PI rules] and would rate higher on my list if our current MLB options were not so…well…stinky.

MLB is the most critical need, IMO.

xoxo~
Gaz
Finally had to give up on Mitchell.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 10:00 AM
I feel somewhat comfortable with our D-Line, next year. Holliday will be gone, and Jared Allen will likely get the start. If he can provide better run support, and not bite on reverses, bootlegs, and the such, he will be a fine DE.

How does everyone feel about Eric Hicks? I think he is a worthless piece of shit, but I know the coaching staff feel otherwise.

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:00 AM
Off-season priority defense,

Cut J.Woods, G.Wesley(maybe)
Cut E.Hicks, V.Holliday
Cut S.Barber, D.McCleon
Cut K.Mitchell

Keep John Browning,Ryan Sims(as a back-up)
Keep Scott Fujita, Monty Beisel
Keep William Bartee, Eric Warfield
Keep Willie Pile, Shanard Harts
Keep Jared Allen, Junior Siavii
Keep Benny Sapp

*Team needs (mainly, another pass rusher to compliment J.Allen, needs a explosive, relentless linebacker who can run sideline to sideline and make tackles, team needs a pair of new safeties)

MichaelH
12-08-2004, 10:00 AM
Do people have any faith in Maslowski coming back?

How comfortable are people with Beisel in the middle?

Is Kawika a total bust at this point? Will he improve?

Maz has a great heart but is injury prone. I don't think he can be relied on as a starter anymore.

No, I'm not comfortable with Beisel as a starter at MLB, although I think he could play back up well.

Kawika, he sure hasn't shown signs of brilliance to me. He has lots of room for improvement.

PHOG
12-08-2004, 10:01 AM
Hell....why not sign FA's WR, LB, AND CB...

Then draft DEFENSIVE BAA's? :hmmm:

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 10:02 AM
Maz has a great heart but is injury prone. I don't think he can be relied on as a starter anymore.

No, I'm not comfortable with Beisel as a starter at MLB, although I think he could play back up well.

Kawika, he sure hasn't shown signs of brilliance to me. He has lots of room for improvement.
I don't know about Maz being injury prone. IIRC he has had the one injury to his knees that has never healed properly.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 10:03 AM
Off-season priority defense,

Cut J.Woods, G.Wesley(maybe)
Cut E.Hicks, V.Holliday
Cut S.Barber, D.McCleon
Cut K.Mitchell

Keep John Browning,Ryan Sims(as a back-up)
Keep Scott Fujita, Monty Beisel
Keep William Bartee, Eric Warfield
Keep Willie Pile, Shanard Harts
Keep Jared Allen, Junior Siavii
Keep Benny Sapp

*Team needs (mainly, another pass rusher to compliment J.Allen, needs a explosive, relentless linebacker who can run sideline to sideline and make tackles, team needs a pair of new safeties)

Talk about a retooling. As far as another pass rusher, i'd like a DE that is solid in run support, please.

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:05 AM
How does everyone feel about Eric Hicks? I think he is a worthless piece of shit, but I know the coaching staff feel otherwise.

Eric Hicks is a worthless piece of sh*t. waste of time and money. Not a pass rusher at all. I'd rather have a guy like Darren Howard of the Saints.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 10:06 AM
Eric Hicks is a worthless piece of sh*t. waste of time and money. Not a pass rusher at all. I'd rather have a guy like Darren Howard of the Saints.
:hmmm:

Darren Howard...an excellent choice. :)

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:08 AM
folks, we just need a linebacker that can make plays. One who is smart, can play with attitude, is a fierce relentless competitor who brings everything he's got to the table, more importantly one that can tackle and blow plays up, you know what I mean? we don't have anybody like that on our roster.

cash1000
12-08-2004, 10:11 AM
None of the above if we can get those friggen elves off the player's back and get a fresh batch of rabbit's foots and magic wands the Chiefs will win the Superbowl next year!

milkman
12-08-2004, 10:11 AM
folks, we just need a linebacker that can make plays. One who is smart, can play with attitude, is a fierce relentless competitor who brings everything he's got to the table, more importantly one that can tackle and blow plays up, you know what I mean? we don't have anybody like that on our roster.

What are you talking about?

We have Scanlon. ROFL

cash1000
12-08-2004, 10:13 AM
...oh yeah and resigning King Carl to a 5 year extension.

PastorMikH
12-08-2004, 10:13 AM
CB followed by LB

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:14 AM
What are you talking about?

We have Scanlon. ROFL

:rolleyes: Oh yeah, I forgot about him ROFL

cash1000
12-08-2004, 10:16 AM
If we can get that leprechuan to quit tripping up the Chiefs defensive players with his shalalee (his little cane) the Chiefs defensive players would be in position to make plays.

Iowanian
12-08-2004, 10:17 AM
I believe the problems on Defense fall in this order

MLB
CB
OLB
DE
S

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 10:17 AM
None of the above if we can get those friggen elves off the player's back and get a fresh batch of rabbit's foots and magic wands the Chiefs will win the Superbowl next year!

Nice useage of The Lexicon...

We all know that if KC ever does win the SB, it wont be due to their play on the field but rather due to luck, but thanks for playing.

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:19 AM
CB followed by LB

I doubt that would happen. I could see Bartee and Warfield very much starting for us again next year. We all know DV and CP feel when it comes to corners, they claim "you gotta be very patient with them". It'll pretty much be year 5 with Warfield still developing into a shutdown corner, and year 4 with Bartee still developing. Honestly, it's a slap in the face when a coach tells a probowl cb(Vincent) he's going to compete with a guy that is no better than a NB(Bartee) in this league. I'm sure no CB would want to play for us after seeing crap like that.

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:21 AM
I'd like to see Junior Siavii start for us next year, he has the potential to be a lot better than Ryan Sims.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 10:22 AM
...Honestly, it's a slap in the face when a coach tells a probowl cb(Vincent) he's going to compete with a guy that is no better than a NB(Bartee) in this league. I'm sure no CB would want to play for us after seeing crap like that.

I have read this argument several times and still do not understand it.

Why would a professional be upset that he is not anointed with a job? Should he not have to earn the job? Is he so insecure that he is afraid of competition?

xoxo~
Gaz
Finds no merit in the “insult” proposition.

Iowanian
12-08-2004, 10:24 AM
I'd like to see some dead weight Cut(Holliday). I'd like to see Allen +10lbs muscle.

I'd like to see a firey Vet MLB. Rolle would be a nice 1st round draft choice and Matt Roth would make a fine 2nd round DE.

PastorMikH
12-08-2004, 10:25 AM
I doubt that would happen. I could see Bartee and Warfield very much starting for us again next year. We all know DV and CP feel when it comes to corners, they claim "you gotta be very patient with them". It'll pretty much be year 5 with Warfield still developing into a shutdown corner, and year 4 with Bartee still developing. Honestly, it's a slap in the face when a coach tells a probowl cb(Vincent) he's going to compete with a guy that is no better than a NB(Bartee) in this league. I'm sure no CB would want to play for us after seeing crap like that.



I doubt it too. In fact, it wouldn't suprise me at all if they don't make a lot of change at all on D.

Warfield has developed decent coverage skills but I'm tired of him playing like a girl out there. Slowing a WR down so the safety or LB can put them down is rather irritating. Bartee is finally turning into a NB. In fact, you know it is bad with our CBs when you're sitting there hoping that Bartee will hurry up and get better so he can play.

cash1000
12-08-2004, 10:27 AM
Why waste your time with speculating about talent when the OWNER says talent,skill,coaching, and reality has nothing to do with winning or losing but good or bad "luck" or football "gods". What football "gods" goblins, elves, fairies, pixies or what? I hope he resigns Carl to see how much nonsense it'll take to break this thing down to where the homers say "thats enough I can't take anymore."

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 10:27 AM
I'd like to see some dead weight Cut(Holliday). I'd like to see Allen +10lbs muscle.

I'd like to see a firey Vet MLB. Rolle would be a nice 1st round draft choice and Matt Roth would make a fine 2nd round DE.
Friggin homer.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 10:28 AM
I have read this argument several times and still do not understand it.


I too have heard this argument and there was no indication Vincent had any intention of playing here but used KC, like Douglas did, to drive his price up.

btw, how is Vincent doing thus far this year with his new contract?

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:30 AM
I have read this argument several times and still do not understand it.

Why would a professional be upset that he is not anointed with a job? Should he not have to earn the job? Is he so insecure that he is afraid of competition?

xoxo~
Gaz
Finds no merit in the “insult” proposition.


Gaz, Vincent has earned every right in this league. He's a proven commodity. The guy made the pro-bowl, :hmmm: I think like 5 times in a row. Ok, sure he's old, but, he's better than anybody we have on our roster. Now, why would a coach say he's gotta compete with the guys on our roster, when there still trying to develop into good corners, when they're not. well, let's say not as good as he is. Ok, personally, if I was Vincent, I'd either be disgusted, or just laugh at the guy and walk away.

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:32 AM
I too have heard this argument and there was no indication Vincent had any intention of playing here but used KC, like Douglas did, to drive his price up.

btw, how is Vincent doing thus far this year with his new contract?

He got hurt. Prior to that he was playing well, good enough to outplay Bartee and McCleon. Injuries, just an unfortunate thing in today's football, and I hate it when people use injuries as way of saying, "oh the guy hasn't done much, or done nothing".

shakesthecat
12-08-2004, 10:35 AM
When you have as many holes on D as KC, just draft BAA.

That is, after selecting Braylon Edwards in Rd 1.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 10:37 AM
He got hurt. Prior to that he was playing well, good enough to outplay Bartee and McCleon. Injuries, just an unfortunate thing in today's football, and I hate it when people use injuries as way of saying, "oh the guy hasn't done much, or done nothing".

Seems to be acceptable on this BB to say that, so I thought it applied to other teams as well...

shakesthecat
12-08-2004, 10:38 AM
Matt Roth would make a fine 2nd round DE.

2 words.....Iowa Hawkeye Pride.


I'd love for to KC take Roth.
If played for either K-State or KU, there'd be 5 threads a day about how great he is.

Chiefless
12-08-2004, 10:39 AM
M-FREAKIN-LB!!!

He's the QB of the defense. Can you imagine the offense with Brock Huard at the helm? Well...that's kinda what we've got on defense.

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:41 AM
I voted for DE. That's what I think should be priority#1. We need another pass rusher to go alongside with Allen. The major problem in our pass defense is, we give the QB way too much time to throw the darn ball. Hicks simply needs to go. We need a pest, one than can at least harrass the QB and not be an O-lineman's b*tch. Then give me a LB as priority #2.

Iowanian
12-08-2004, 10:41 AM
2 words.....Iowa Hawkeye Pride.


I'd love for to KC take Roth.
If played for either K-State or KU, there'd be 5 threads a day about how great he is.

Hodge would make a fabulous 3rd round OLB too.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 10:43 AM
Hodge would make a fabulous 3rd round OLB too.
Is he leaving? He was a junior this year.

shakesthecat
12-08-2004, 10:43 AM
Hodge would make a fabulous 3rd round OLB too.


I thought he said he was returning for his Sr. season?

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:46 AM
I think Marcus Spears is a pretty good one too. He's a probably a mid-first rounder though. David Pollack wouldn't be a bad choice either, again, probably another mid-first rounder. See, that's the problem, if we get a top ten pick, and end up drafting one of these guys, it would be a bit of a reach. But, both are good DE's would have potential to play in the NFL, and can be servicable for a team like the Chiefs.

bringbackmarty
12-08-2004, 10:49 AM
CB or MLB, take best avail in draft, take the best avail athelete for those two positions, (If there is an impact player left) look for the other in FA. If there is no impact plyr in draft and mike williams is there, we should take him. Sounds crazy, but we need impact players next season, no projects, except maybe a backup qb.

Iowanian
12-08-2004, 10:49 AM
I know Greenway said he was staying, but hadn't heard that from Hodge.........I have seen his name on some mock sites.

I hope he stays.........The Chiefs will still need a LB in 2 years, and the Hawkeyes will have 2 worth taking.

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:51 AM
If he's available, draft, Derrick Johnson. And address, DE through FA.

PastorMikH
12-08-2004, 10:51 AM
We need to draft a Safety that we can convert into a CB!

milkman
12-08-2004, 10:52 AM
I think Marcus Spears is a pretty good one too. He's a probably a mid-first rounder though. David Pollack wouldn't be a bad choice either, again, probably another mid-first rounder. See, that's the problem, if we get a top ten pick, and end up drafting one of these guys, it would be a bit of a reach. But, both are good DE's would have potential to play in the NFL, and can be servicable for a team like the Chiefs.

If we draft in the top ten, then we better not be drafting "servicable" players.

PastorMikH
12-08-2004, 10:54 AM
If he's available, draft, Derrick Johnson. And address, DE through FA.


Even if we dropped the last 4 games, we'd still probably have too low of a pick to get him.

shakesthecat
12-08-2004, 10:56 AM
A little blurb on Hodge and Greenway, from the fingers of Mel Kiper......FWIW

http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=1937016

bricks
12-08-2004, 10:57 AM
If we draft in the top ten, then we better not be drafting "servicable" players.

look at it on the bright side, "servicable" is better than a bust, ala Ryan Sims. I'll take a "servicable player" anyday over guys that aren't servicable, like Eric Hicks. As long as they aren't busts that's what matters. but, sure, I like you would love to see an awesome player come out of the draft and bring it for the Chiefs.

bringbackmarty
12-08-2004, 10:57 AM
As far as vets we should release, hicks tops my list, along with holliday. **** woods too. their time in the nfl is finished, time to go coach I-AAA guys. I don't know if we will be able to get a starting corner, mlb, and end all next season, especially since we could lose a safety or two in the offseason.
Eric hicks is a lil' bitch. End is one thing, but the last thing we need is another Defensive tackle. Another de in second round would be good.

milkman
12-08-2004, 11:08 AM
look at it on the bright side, "servicable" is better than a bust, ala Ryan Sims. I'll take a "servicable player" anyday over guys that aren't servicable, like Eric Hicks. As long as they aren't busts that's what matters. but, sure, I like you would love to see an awesome player come out of the draft and bring it for the Chiefs.

I'm not ssure how you define "bust" and "servicable", but to me, Sims isn't a bust, he's servicable.

But, like I said, if we're drafting top ten, then we better not get servicable again.
We better get an impact type player this time.

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 11:08 AM
At this point I think the Chiefs will win another game, perhaps two which will remove them from the premier draft spots. Bye bye Rolle, Brooks and Williams. I also think that there are too many holes to fill on defense in one offseason. The Chiefs will have to make due with some of what they have. I think they need a LDE, OLB, MLB, CB or two and a FS.

With that in mind, I think they should pursue an ILB in free agency. I'm not sure at this point that there is an ILB in the draft in the 10-15 slot worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't think the team can afford to wait half the season for a MLB to develop. Free agent LBs are also generally more affordable than free agent corners and defensive ends.

I still don't think the front 4 is getting enough pressure on the QB with any regularity. They need to upgrade Hicks and Wilkerson hasn't shown much promise. I would start considering drafting Pollack from Georgia in the first round. He's a more talented Jared Allen.

Corner and Safety are tough. We need improvements in both positions. I'd even consider drafting a safet in the first round (Davies??). There should also be some decent corners in the 10-15 range of the draft -Marlin Jackson and Corey Webster. I'd probably prefer Jackson but his assult charge last summer may not make him eligible for the "profile." You can usually find a good safety and sometimes even a corner early in the 2nd round (Smoot, Lucas, Tillman, Florence, Wilson, Mathis, Hamlin, Williams - from the last few years were taken in that range).

LiL stumppy
12-08-2004, 11:28 AM
I want to draft Derrick Johnson,pick up a CB in FA.Drop Barber,and I do belive that Kawika will come along and be a good MLB.

milkman
12-08-2004, 11:31 AM
I want to draft Derrick Johnson,pick up a CB in FA.Drop Barber,and I do belive that Kawika will come along and be a good MLB.

Do you also believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairie?

HC_Chief
12-08-2004, 11:39 AM
MLB, CB, FS, OLB, LDE... all areas of need.

We MUST acquire a solid MLB. Mitchell won't cut it (neither will Beisel or Scanlon).

We need to replace Barber.

Hicks should have received his walking papers last season; I have a feeling we'll keep his whiny ass :grr: IMO we need a pass-rushing LDE.

We need a starting CB. Bartee moves to nickle, Warfield covers the opponents' #2 receiver. Sign a 'shut down' corner to take on opponents' top wideout.


Other than D (whole draft dedicated to D!!!!!!), sign Jerry Porter for O.

LiL stumppy
12-08-2004, 11:46 AM
Do you also believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairie?

Yes.Everyone knows they're real.Duh. :harumph:

Gaz
12-08-2004, 11:51 AM
bricks-

If Vincent is as good as you say he is, he would have no problem earning a starting position. If he considers it an “insult” that he is not given the starting role without earning it, then he is either

A] Afraid of competition [not as good as you think he is].
B] A spoiled prima donna.

Neither is a Good Thing.

The “insult” argument is just silly.

xoxo~
Gaz
Thinks Vincent was using the Chiefs to drive up his asking price.

milkman
12-08-2004, 11:51 AM
Yes.Everyone knows they're real.Duh. :harumph:
Just checking. :)

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 12:02 PM
bricks-

If Vincent is as good as you say he is, he would have no problem earning a starting position. If he considers it an “insult” that he is not given the starting role without earning it, then he is either

A] Not as good as you think he is.
B] A spoiled prima donna.

Neither is a Good Thing.

The “insult” argument is just silly.

xoxo~
Gaz
Thinks Vincent was using the Chiefs to drive up his asking price.


Vermeil didn't say he had to earn a starting position he said that he was a fallback if the Chiefs didn't resign Bartee. In essence he said "you are a fallback if we can't sign a scrub." Athletes are spoiled and part of the courting process is selling your team, your town and your product. Telling someone they are choice B to a turd isn't a good sell.

Mr. Kotter
12-08-2004, 12:04 PM
CB, of course....

my initial reaction was MLB, but then I remembered we have....


Rich Scanlon. :thumb:

nmt1
12-08-2004, 12:08 PM
This is not going to be a popular position but I'll say BAA regardless of position. The only position I think we should avoid is RB. Any other position would be fine. I don't care if it's offense, defense, or special teams(including punter and kicker).
I don't think the Chiefs will be so quick to give up on some of the younger players on the team like Kawika Mitchell. Several of our offensive starters are getting long in the tooth so it would make some sense to me to draft for youth and depth on offense.
I'm guessing any player we draft will probably not see the field much in his first season. IMO, counting on a rookie player to be a starter is a recipe for disaster.

Calcountry
12-08-2004, 12:09 PM
That was actually a good and interesting poll. Not like the chit I put up.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 12:12 PM
Vermeil didn't say he had to earn a starting position he said that he was a fallback if the Chiefs didn't resign Bartee. In essence he said "you are a fallback if we can't sign a scrub." Athletes are spoiled and part of the courting process is selling your team, your town and your product. Telling someone they are choice B to a turd isn't a good sell.

Not according to kcchiefs.com:
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2004/03/18/free_agency_is_never_free/

That’s why Vincent signed in Buffalo. His interest in the Chiefs was real; in fact, according to head coach Dick Vermeil, it was Vincent who called the Chiefs, not the other way around. He said all the right things about signing with a team that had a chance to go to the Super Bowl. When the head coach was quoted as saying he would have to compete for a starting job, he said that was fine with him.


Does not sound like he was “insulted,” does it?

xoxo~
Gaz
Watching another urban legend bite the dust.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 12:19 PM
Oh, Gaz...*sigh* that was a Gretz article. Better don the flame retardant suit.

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 12:32 PM
Not according to kcchiefs.com:
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2004/03/18/free_agency_is_never_free/

That’s why Vincent signed in Buffalo. His interest in the Chiefs was real; in fact, according to head coach Dick Vermeil, it was Vincent who called the Chiefs, not the other way around. He said all the right things about signing with a team that had a chance to go to the Super Bowl. When the head coach was quoted as saying he would have to compete for a starting job, he said that was fine with him.


Does not sound like he was “insulted,” does it?

xoxo~
Gaz
Watching another urban legend bite the dust.


Well, you could believe Gretz who is paraphrasing, or pull the full quote:

"This is just in case we lose William Bartee,” Vermeil said. “I want William Bartee back.” Vermeil said Vincent would have to beat out either of two incumbent starters, Eric Warfield or Dexter McCleon, to win a regular cornerback spot. “So, first off, it's can you afford him? No. 2, would he want to come in and just compete to be a starter rather than just be given a job? We wouldn't sign him to automatically be a starter."

I'll repeat the first part: "This is just in case we lose William Bartee ... I want William Bartee back."

Assuming Gretz is telling the truth, I find it utterly amazing that the Chiefs didn't call him first. They needed and still desperately need help at corner. The current official team position is not only did our GM go on vacation the first few weeks of free agency and we didnt' entertain guys like Winfield, etc., the only guy that the team reportedly showed interest in was a guy the team didn't even reach out to in the first place. In other words, the Chiefs didn't pursue a single free agent corner other than Bartee. Wow, that makes me feel better.

Any self proclaimed "defensive homer" would certainly be troubled by this.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 12:34 PM
So you are no longer claiming that Vincent was “insulted?”

xoxo~
Gaz
Just being clear.

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 12:34 PM
Agreed! I think a MLB is the strongest need followed by a good corner.

Disagreed! I think a cornerback is the strongest need followed by a good MLB. :harumph:

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 12:39 PM
So you are no longer claiming that Vincent was “insulted?”

xoxo~
Gaz
Just being clear.

I never said he was insulted.

But, yes I think telling a pro bowl player he is a fallback to a guy who sucks is an insult and would be taken as an insult by most pro athletes.

Gee Mr. Owens we'd love to sign you but can you wait until we hear from Boerigter?

Ray Lewis welcome aboard, but understand our head coach really wants Monty Beisel to start in the middle.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 12:43 PM
I have to throw a flag on that one...

Vincent is not to Db's what TO is to WR's or Lewis is to LB's.

Ty Law, ok, you've got a point, but not Vincent.

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 12:53 PM
I have to throw a flag on that one...

Vincent is not to Db's what TO is to WR's or Lewis is to LB's.

Ty Law, ok, you've got a point, but not Vincent.

Vincent is on the downside of his career, but he is still a 5 time Pro-Bowler (I think it's 5). Telling someone like that that they are a fallback to William Bartee (known by opposing QBs and WRs around the league as "the guy who lets me reach my incentives") isn't a way to get the guy to sign with KC. The fact that the Chiefs weren't even interested in him, or any other CB from any other team remains troublesome.

You can pick up your flag now Mr. Gretz.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 12:55 PM
Vincent is on the downside of his career, but he is still a 5 time Pro-Bowler (I think it's 5). Telling someone like that that they are a fallback to William Bartee (known by opposing QBs and WRs around the league as "the guy who lets me reach my incentives") isn't a way to get the guy to sign with KC.

Im interested how you know Bartee's reputation around the league...aside from that, I think the only thing that matters is the money and not offering him more than the other club is most likely why he didnt sign. All this other stuff is noise.

cmh6476
12-08-2004, 12:57 PM
i said mlb, but we could use help at all of those positions :(

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 12:57 PM
Im interested how you know Bartee's reputation around the league...aside from that, I think the only thing that matters is the money and not offering him more than the other club is most likely why he didnt sign. All this other stuff is noise.


I'm sure you are correct, Mr. Fixed-Neck and Iron Hands has a great reputation around the league.

nmt1
12-08-2004, 12:59 PM
Im interested how you know Bartee's reputation around the league...aside from that, I think the only thing that matters is the money and not offering him more than the other club is most likely why he didnt sign. All this other stuff is noise.

Pro Career
Fifth-year performer expected to once again battle for a starting position at right cornerback ... Was penciled in as the club’s starter at right corner a year ago before an ankle injury kept him out of the lineup early in the season, but still saw duty in 11 contests with one start ... Gifted natural athlete opened 13 games at the right CB post for the Chiefs in 2002 ... Should only continue to improve with more on-field experience ... Came to the Chiefs after working at corner for a portion of his senior season at the collegiate level after beginning his career as a free safety ... Following in the footsteps of a fellow Big 12 alum, CB Eric Warfield from Nebraska, who also predominately played safety during his college career before making the successful transition to a starting NFL corner ... That experience at safety has likely also contributed to his fearless demeanor in run support ... Possesses all the physical attributes necessary to play the corner position at the pro level ... His size, speed and strong upper body allow him to match up well with the league’s bigger receivers ... Can also be called upon to rush the passer in blitz situations, owning a pair of sacks in his NFL career ... Owns 57 games (22 starts) of NFL experience, recording 176 tackles (140 solo) to go along with 22 passes defensed, 2.0 sacks (-17.0 yards) and two QB pressures ... Is a vital contributor on special teams, amassing 42 special teams tackles, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery ... Has also played in one postseason game, registering five solo tackles. Other teams around the league think he blows, certainly not as good as, say, Troy Vincent.
Transactions: Signed a four-year contract with Kansas City (3/19/04) ... Signed a four-year contract with Kansas City (7/20/00) ... Entered the league as a second-round draft choice (54th overall) of the Chiefs in 2000.

Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/william_bartee/#b1)

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:01 PM
The Chiefs arranged a visit for Vincent. So much for “…the Chiefs weren't even interested in him…”

Vincent went with the money. As he should. Being a professional, he should strive to get the most pay for his play.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders where people pull this stuff from.

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 01:01 PM
Im interested how you know Bartee's reputation around the league...aside from that, I think the only thing that matters is the money and not offering him more than the other club is most likely why he didnt sign. All this other stuff is noise.
that's just silly


you don't think that telling a 5 time pro bowl cornerback that not only is he not going to start, but that he is going to have to compete with bartee (a guy that has never had an interception in his pro career) for the nickleback position wouldn't have any impact on his desire to sign here?


you lack of logical football, if not human nature, insight has just reached a new low.



considering how completely pathetic its been in that past, that's quite the accomplishment.



i applaud your new level of troll-itude :clap: :clap: :clap:

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 01:01 PM
Pro Career
Fifth-year performer expected to once again battle for a starting position at right cornerback ... Was penciled in as the club’s starter at right corner a year ago before an ankle injury kept him out of the lineup early in the season, but still saw duty in 11 contests with one start ... Gifted natural athlete opened 13 games at the right CB post for the Chiefs in 2002 ... Should only continue to improve with more on-field experience ... Came to the Chiefs after working at corner for a portion of his senior season at the collegiate level after beginning his career as a free safety ... Following in the footsteps of a fellow Big 12 alum, CB Eric Warfield from Nebraska, who also predominately played safety during his college career before making the successful transition to a starting NFL corner ... That experience at safety has likely also contributed to his fearless demeanor in run support ... Possesses all the physical attributes necessary to play the corner position at the pro level ... His size, speed and strong upper body allow him to match up well with the league’s bigger receivers ... Can also be called upon to rush the passer in blitz situations, owning a pair of sacks in his NFL career ... Owns 57 games (22 starts) of NFL experience, recording 176 tackles (140 solo) to go along with 22 passes defensed, 2.0 sacks (-17.0 yards) and two QB pressures ... Is a vital contributor on special teams, amassing 42 special teams tackles, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery ... Has also played in one postseason game, registering five solo tackles. Other teams around the league think he blows, certainly not as good as, say, Troy Vincent.
Transactions: Signed a four-year contract with Kansas City (3/19/04) ... Signed a four-year contract with Kansas City (7/20/00) ... Entered the league as a second-round draft choice (54th overall) of the Chiefs in 2000.

Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/william_bartee/#b1)

Oh good, Mrs. Gretz is here too.

nmt1
12-08-2004, 01:03 PM
Oh good, Mrs. Gretz is here too.

ROFL
It was just a joke dude. Relax.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 01:03 PM
that's just silly

you don't think that telling a 5 time pro bowl cornerback that not only is he not going to start, but that he is going to have to compete with bartee (a guy that has never had an interception in his pro career) for the nickleback position wouldn't have any impact on his desire to sign here?

you lack of logical football, if not human nature, insight has just reached a new low.

considering how completely pathetic its been in that past, that's quite the accomplishment.

i applaud your new level of troll-itude :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks, if you didnt like my post, Im doing something right. The day you get a job in the NFL get back to me...

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 01:03 PM
ROFL
It was just a joke dude. Relax.


Sorry to offend you mam.

nmt1
12-08-2004, 01:05 PM
Sorry to offend you mam.

None taken sweetheart.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:06 PM
“When the head coach was quoted as saying he would have to compete for a starting job, he said that was fine with him.”

Again, we have a couple of possibilities:

A] Gretz is lying [a foolish move, since there would be witnesses to refute his lies].
B] Vincent was lying when he said competing was fine with him.

Pick one.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sticking with the money explanation.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 01:07 PM
I would really like to know NJ's source or how he learned of Bartee's reputation among other QB's and WR's in the league. I can tell you what I learned about Warfield through a source I have made the DUI story all the more believeable.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:12 PM
C] Some of our Planet members were offended that Vincent was asked to compete with Bartee and have projected their bruised feelings onto Vincent, despite his public statements to the contrary.

Pick one.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hot on the trail.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 01:13 PM
I'll take C...

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 01:19 PM
Vincent was lying when he said competing was fine with him.

i pick this one


imo he didn't like a lot of the situation


1. he was ask to come in as a nickleback instead of a starter. Even though he had been a starter in philly.(and a pro bowl one at that)

2. the head coach just inferred that, in his opinion, his talent level was comparable to william bartee. Bartee hasn't ever don't jack squat in the league = a pro bowl cornerback.

3. the chiefs financial offer was conducive to a guy competing for a nickle position instead of a starter(which is what he prolly wanted)

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:20 PM
I am going with B, too.

Vincent has those shifty eyes, you know?

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not trust anyone named after a city in a Greek saga.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 01:21 PM
Im amazed that so many posters know exactly what happened at the meeting...is there an additional fee to get webcam access or audio feeds of FA meetings at arrowhead or do you have to be a season ticket holder?

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 01:31 PM
I am going with B, too.

Vincent has those shifty eyes, you know?

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not trust anyone named after a city in a Greek saga
ya whatever

doesn't matter how big your font size gets, it doesn't make up for a foolish take.





:hmmm: maybe Gaz should try huge red blinking fonts to try grab the attention he desperate for?




xoxo~
<marquee>Laz</marquee>
look at me, look at me ... ignore the words that make no sense , just love me!!!!!!

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 01:34 PM
that's one bad case of cramps and bloating...

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:34 PM
oh

lazarus hurt my feelings

make him stop

xoxo~
Gaz
brutalized by such a relentless display of reason

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 01:35 PM
Gaz vs Laz..showdown. I've been waiting for this one since I signed up at Chiefsplanet.com

Hydrae
12-08-2004, 01:36 PM
i pick this one


imo he didn't like a lot of the situation


1. he was ask to come in as a nickleback instead of a starter. Even though he had been a starter in philly.(and a pro bowl one at that)

2. the head coach just inferred that, in his opinion, his talent level was comparable to william bartee. Bartee hasn't ever don't jack squat in the league = a pro bowl cornerback.

3. the chiefs financial offer was conducive to a guy competing for a nickle position instead of a starter(which is what he prolly wanted)


3 is more along my thinking about the Vincent fiasco. He may or may not have been upset about having to compete for a position, that is really pretty standard for all players every year. But I can certainly see Carl making him an offer as if he were a nickleback rather than a former Pro Bowl CB.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:39 PM
Gaz vs Laz..showdown. I've been waiting for this one since I signed up at Chiefsplanet.com

Instigator.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sweet, fluffy guy who is just not showdown material.

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 01:44 PM
3 is more along my thinking about the Vincent fiasco. He may or may not have been upset about having to compete for a position, that is really pretty standard for all players every year. But I can certainly see Carl making him an offer as if he were a nickleback rather than a former Pro Bowl CB.

ya, prolly the clincher


vincent probably ignores the public slight by the head coach IF the team follows by offering him starter money. But they didn't

Vermeils comments sure didn't help the situation


i still don't understand why we didnt offer Vincent a chance to compete for a starting job instead of competing for a nickle.

then offer him a contract that includes a bonus IF he earn the starting job.


we would of had a better chance to sign vincent then imo

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:47 PM
Does anyone actually know the offer we made to Vincent?

xoxo~
Gaz
Looking for more data.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 01:48 PM
Does anyone actually know the offer we made to Vincent?

xoxo~
Gaz
Looking for more data.


Apparently, Laz does.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 01:50 PM
Apparently, Laz does.

No, I am serious.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would be interested in the numbers.

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 01:56 PM
No, I am serious.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would be interested in the numbers
the numbers for the offer to Vincent were posted at one point ... he was offered a backup money contract.

of course we dont have the contract in front of us, so we dont know if all the details reported were 100% correct.

But if you take the Vermeil comments, the backup position the chiefs said we apparently brought him in for and the "less than large" money he sign for in seattle .... the number posted seemed fairly accurate.

1+1+1=3 :shrug:

Rain Man
12-08-2004, 02:04 PM
Looking at the poll results, I'm a little surprised that there's not more support for an OLB. My debate was between MLB and OLB, not the other positions.

Is everyone that pleased with Caver, or do they think Barber will be back?

I admit that I think Caver has been playing pretty decently, but the position can still use an upgrade badly. I would've picked OLB except that I think an MLB is naturally a more impactful position.

milkman
12-08-2004, 02:07 PM
Looking at the poll results, I'm a little surprised that there's not more support for an OLB. My debate was between MLB and OLB, not the other positions.

Is everyone that pleased with Caver, or do they think Barber will be back?

I admit that I think Caver has been playing pretty decently, but the position can still use an upgrade badly. I would've picked OLB except that I think an MLB is naturally a more impactful position.

I think that Fujita hasn't fully returned to his pre-injury play, but will bounce back next season.
I also think that we need to see what we have in Key Fox before we address that side, and that Beissel can be a quality B/U at both OLB and MLb.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 02:09 PM
I picked MLB over OLB because Caver is better at OLB than Mitchell is at MLB.

The differential between our player and “adequate” is much larger at the MLB position.

xoxo~
Gaz
Falls far short of liking Caver at OLB.

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 02:17 PM
I picked MLB over OLB because Caver is better at OLB than Mitchell is at MLB.

The differential between our player and “adequate” is much larger at the MLB position.

xoxo~
Gaz
Falls far short of liking Caver at OLB.
agreed...

also thinks that MLB is a bigger impact position than OLB





agreeing with Gaz didnt hurt a bit :)


laz
~not holding a grudge, not wanting a "show down" ~

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 02:21 PM
Aw, shucks.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 02:24 PM
Aw, shucks.

You are not a nice person.

xoxo~
Gaz
Shocked to discover this.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 02:25 PM
What does "DooDah lite" refer to, anyways?

xoxo~
Saul
Is curious.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 02:29 PM
Wichita is known as DooDah. Derby is a bedroom community southeast of DooDah.

Hence, DooDah Lite.

xoxo~
Gaz
Excessively convoluted at times.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 02:31 PM
Ah...i've never heard it called DooDah. Is there a story behind that?

I've passed through Derby many times on the way to Belle Plaine. I've even frequented the bowling alley, the movie theater (which is too close to the train tracks, mind you), and a restaurant called "Rib Crib", which was awful.

xoxo~
Saul
Learned something new today.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 02:35 PM
Dad Gaz and I are heading to the bowling alley for some practice this afternoon. I went to the movie theater once. The screens were tiny and way too high. The fact that the “Rib Crib” is always packed speaks volumes to the quality of restaurants in DooDah Lite.

I guess Belle Plaine would be DooDah Lite Lite, eh?

Or should there be another “Lite” or two in there?

xoxo~
Gaz
Derbyite.

Gaz
12-08-2004, 02:36 PM
Once again, boys and girls, you have entertained me through the work day. Given my attention span, that is not a tremendous accomplishment, but still I thank you for your efforts.

If any of you passes through DooDah Lite this afternoon, honk hello as you pass the bowling alley.

xoxo~
Gaz
Heading on out.

ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 02:37 PM
CD is of worst need, our corners suck. Bad ass LB (doesn't matter which) would be a blessing.

Our LB's suck less than our CB's.

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 02:38 PM
Belle Plaine doesn't deserve a DooDah designation. Perhaps Wellington could be called DooDah Lite Lite. I don't like Wellington that much though, either. Well, at least now I can say I know someone in DooDah Lite.

xoxo~
Saul
Elated.

ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 02:39 PM
Gaz I thought you was an engineer not a banker.

ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 02:39 PM
or is that an engineer with banker hours?

PastorMikH
12-08-2004, 02:40 PM
Here's a question for everyone. Why is it that when Stills went to the Probowl as a special teamer, the DC played him on the line and he was impressive, but he sees little to no time in our D?

John_Wayne
12-08-2004, 02:43 PM
I would say the results of this poll are almost perfect. Our needs, IMHO, in order of priority are CB, MLB, DE, OLB, S, DT

Dave Lane
12-08-2004, 03:45 PM
I'm going with a real corner no safety crap and then a MLB.

Dave

2bikemike
12-08-2004, 04:01 PM
Wichita is known as DooDah. Derby is a bedroom community southeast of DooDah.

Hence, DooDah Lite.

xoxo~
Gaz
Excessively convoluted at times.


I have a little brother in Winfield. Is that known as DooDoo?

philfree
12-08-2004, 04:02 PM
Why is it that when Stills went to the Probowl as a special teamer, the DC played him on the line and he was impressive, but he sees little to no time in our D?


Stills got to play D because the guy that was supposed to play was a late scratch not because the DC thought he was so good. He did have a nice sack last sunday but Stills really just a STer.

PhilFree :arrow:

Saulbadguy
12-08-2004, 04:04 PM
I have a little brother in Winfield. Is that known as DooDoo?
Been there numerous times as well. They hold a bluegrass festival every year that is pretty well known around this state.

Gaz
12-09-2004, 06:39 AM
or is that an engineer with banker hours?

6:00 – 2:30.

xoxo~
Gaz
Getting the worm on a daily basis.

KCTitus
12-09-2004, 07:00 AM
6:00 – 2:30.

xoxo~
Gaz
Getting the worm on a daily basis.


NO thanks...6AM is when I get up, not arrive at work...

Being that the Gazzer is 'up there' Im guessing with that schedule he goes to bed when the sun's still up during the summer.

Gaz
12-09-2004, 07:31 AM
Daylight savings SUCKS, man.

And I hate MNF Chiefs games.

xoxo~
Gaz
Needs more beauty rest than is generally thought.

KCTitus
12-09-2004, 07:32 AM
Be thankful you dont have that schedule on the east coast.

nmt1
12-09-2004, 07:32 AM
Daylight savings SUCKS, man.

And I hate MNF Chiefs games.

xoxo~
Gaz
Needs more beauty rest than is generally thought.


You're lucky you're not on the East Coast. The games don't start here until 9pm and end around 12:30am. My hours are 7-4 eastern time so I'm usually pretty worthless on Tuesday.