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ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 09:35 AM
VERMEIL: “Larry (Johnson) ran well. Derrick (Blaylock) could have played and did play a snap or two, but I just didn’t feel good about it. Larry missed some holes, but he’ll get better. He was so excited about carrying the ball that it almost was a distraction to some of the breaks he could have made had he more patient.”

HOLTHUS: He was so explosive that his speed seemed to fool the Raiders at times.

VERMEIL: “Now, he is fast, although he’s no faster than Derrick Blaylock. Just being a little more patient as he learns to run in this offense will help him. That offensive line will provide him with an opportunity to run more often than not.”



Johnson looked great IMO. I like Vermeil, but wish he would quite slamming Larry every chance he gets. Last week he was saying that Johnson was probably the fastest guy on the team in the 40 and this week he is no faster than Blaylock! He took his diaper off, now get behind your back and give him some credit.

Rain Man
12-08-2004, 09:37 AM
No faster than Blaylock? Blaylock has blazing speed. If someone's faster than Blaylock, they're Olympian.

Earthling
12-08-2004, 09:38 AM
WTF?? Where is DV's head at??

Chris Meck
12-08-2004, 09:42 AM
Priest Holmes isn't really all that FAST. He's QUICK. I'd take a 230 lb. back that's as fast as Blaylock any old day, thank you.

Chris

BigRedChief
12-08-2004, 09:50 AM
I don't know what DV's issue is with LJ but he needs to knock it off. Yeah there have been a lot of 100 yard rushers that never amounted to anything but the first time you give him a chance he produces. We will see if its a case of Greg "The Real Deal" Hill or a new chapter is being written in thr King Carl draft history books. An actual impact RB.

I sure do like his just handing the ball to the ref after a touchdown score. Quite classy.

NewChief
12-08-2004, 09:51 AM
I have thought that DV's comments about LJ were a little overly-qualified. He keeps talking about how LJ could have done even better if he wouldn't have been so excited. How he didn't use good vision. How he hit the hole too fast. Come on, Dick! The guy racked up some serious yardage and really helped the team out.

It's doubly irritating when he can hardly bring himself to criticize a member of the _efense. Make no sense. Give credit where it's due. Give criticism where it's needed. LJ doesn't need a critique after that performance. He just needs more carries.

milkman
12-08-2004, 09:55 AM
WTF?? Where is DV's head at??

Vermeil doesn't like big Johnson's in diapers.

BigRedChief
12-08-2004, 09:57 AM
It's doubly irritating when he can hardly bring himself to criticize a member of the _efense. Make no sense. Give credit where it's due. Give criticism where it's needed. LJ doesn't need a critique after that performance. He just needs more carries.

Nail on head award. :thumb:

The defense is the one that needs to be taken out to the woodshed.

jspchief
12-08-2004, 09:57 AM
I listened to DV on the radio last night, and my immediate impression was that he was defending Blaylock and detracting from what LJ did. It's obvious he's got a hard-on for Blaylock. Vermeil's loyalty is a hindrence.

David.
12-08-2004, 10:00 AM
worst thread title to grace CP

ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 10:01 AM
Give credit where it's due. Give criticism where it's needed. LJ doesn't need a critique after that performance.

That's what I'm saying. Everyother player on this team he backs them up when they do something wrong (he's young, everyone makes mistakes, etc). And that's what I like about Vermeil, but with Johnson he just keeps putting him down. Throws him a bone every now and then, but has never gotten behind him.

Come on Dick show him some love.

Calcountry
12-08-2004, 10:03 AM
Vermeil doesn't like big Johnson's in diapers.
That should have read, "Dick doesn't like his Johnson in Diapers."

ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 10:16 AM
worst thread title to grace CP

Guess it should've been "Dick on Johnson".

Chiefnj
12-08-2004, 10:31 AM
I think Johnson have very deceptive speed. Opposing players don't think he can turn a corner, etc., and end up taking bad angles on him. The only criticism I have of him in the Raider game is that I don't think he has great balance. It seems like once someone swipes at him low he'll go down.

Earthling
12-08-2004, 10:48 AM
Maybe DV was playing to lose that Raiders game and LJ ruined his plan for a better draft position..??

Skip Towne
12-08-2004, 10:49 AM
DV is becoming senile. Sometimes he appears to be OK and then there are times like this.

Earthling
12-08-2004, 10:58 AM
DV is becoming senile. Sometimes he appears to be OK and then there are times like this.
Agreed. I was really happy we got him for HC initially...Now I'm not so sure.

Craash
12-08-2004, 11:08 AM
Dick vs. Johnson = Huge pissing contest.

nmt1
12-08-2004, 11:11 AM
I'm having a hard time finding where Vermiel said anything negative about Larry Johnson in this. Can someone help me?

jspchief
12-08-2004, 11:12 AM
DV is becoming senile. Sometimes he appears to be OK and then there are times like this.

What are you talikng about? He sounded perfectly sane when he said Keith Sampson might get some playing time in this upcoming game.

Now, if only I knew who the hell Keith Sampson was...

HC_Chief
12-08-2004, 11:20 AM
I'm having a hard time finding where Vermiel said anything negative about Larry Johnson in this. Can someone help me?

Same here :shrug:

NewChief
12-08-2004, 11:22 AM
Same here :shrug:

You need to check all of Vermeil's post game interviews, the DV show, and his latest press conference on kcchiefs.com.

He's repeatedly qualified LJ's successes from this game with comments about how he screwed up.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 11:23 AM
I dont think DV's comments were qualified or critical of LJ...What I read was DV saying he did good and will only do better as he learns more about the game in the NFL.

Brock
12-08-2004, 11:27 AM
You need to check all of Vermeil's post game interviews, the DV show, and his latest press conference on kcchiefs.com.

He's repeatedly qualified LJ's successes from this game with comments about how he screwed up.

Yes, he's been absolutely scathing! Scathing, I say!

Q: The way Larry Johnson played yesterday, how far does that go in your decision-making that maybe he could be the insurance for Priest Holmes?

. VERMEIL: “To me, I’ve seen that before the ball game. I’ve seen it on the practice field but it’s better when you see it in the ball game. What I liked in the ball game in watching Larry was how intense he was in competing. You can’t evaluate that on the practice field. He was almost too intense. He kept flying up there and hoping that everybody gets out of the way. I think when he gets a little more patient, he’ll learn more from watching Priest in reading things like draws. He’ll make more good runs.”

Q: I saw you talking to him a couple of times on the sideline. Is that where you were telling him to calm down a little bit?

VERMEIL: “I’d talk to him every once in a while, reassure him, or tell just to back off a little bit, stutter step a little bit as you reach that line of scrimmage, don’t get caught in a long stride and those kinds of things. They’re all instinctive things that he can do. But when you’re going full bore to the line of scrimmage sometimes you can’t cause everything happens so fast you can’t do everything you see.”

NewChief
12-08-2004, 11:35 AM
Here's some other comments, and I never said he was scathing. I just said he qualified his praise.

http://kcchiefs.com/news/2004/12/07/vermeil_press_conference/

VERMEIL: “The first thing that he (Johnson) was doing – that helped him and hurt him – was the minute he got the ball in his hands he was going straight up the field as hard as you can go. With his size and strength and leg drive, he’s going to make some yards. But sometimes it eliminates the vision to make one cut or to see exactly what happened on the stunt to make the block. That will all come once he gains the confidence and patience. It was an intense put it that way.



And again:
http://kcchiefs.com/news/2004/12/07/the_dick_vermeil_show/

“Larry (Johnson) ran well. Derrick (Blaylock) could have played and did play a snap or two, but I just didn’t feel good about it. Larry missed some holes, but he’ll get better. He was so excited about carrying the ball that it almost was a distraction to some of the breaks he could have made had he more patient.”


And again:
http://kcchiefs.com/news/2004/12/06/qa_with_dick_vermeil/

. VERMEIL: “To me, I’ve seen that before the ball game. I’ve seen it on the practice field but it’s better when you see it in the ball game. What I liked in the ball game in watching Larry was how intense he was in competing. You can’t evaluate that on the practice field. He was almost too intense. He kept flying up there and hoping that everybody gets out of the way. I think when he gets a little more patient, he’ll learn more from watching Priest in reading things like draws. He’ll make more good runs.”

Q: I saw you talking to him a couple of times on the sideline. Is that where you were telling him to calm down a little bit?

VERMEIL: “I’d talk to him every once in a while, reassure him, or tell just to back off a little bit, stutter step a little bit as you reach that line of scrimmage, don’t get caught in a long stride and those kinds of things. They’re all instinctive things that he can do. But when you’re going full bore to the line of scrimmage sometimes you can’t cause everything happens so fast you can’t do everything you see.”


Certainly none of that is scathing, but it is qualified praise that when put within the context of Vermeil's refusal to criticize people that outright suck at their jobs on a daily basis seems a little misplaced.

EDIT: Added bolding on the parts I see as qualifications of his praise.

nmt1
12-08-2004, 11:48 AM
You need to check all of Vermeil's post game interviews, the DV show, and his latest press conference on kcchiefs.com.

He's repeatedly qualified LJ's successes from this game with comments about how he screwed up.


I listened to the press conference and read the Dick Vermiel show article last night. I've listened to every press conference and read every interview since the season began and with the exception of the diaper comment, which I think was totally in jest, I have found Vermiel's comments to be constructive criticism at the very worst.

NewChief
12-08-2004, 11:50 AM
I listened to the press conference and read the Dick Vermiel show article last night. I've listened to every press conference and read every interview since the season began and with the exception of the diaper comment, which I think was totally in jest, I have found Vermiel's comments to be constructive criticism at the very worst.

See Post #25. I quoted and bolded them.

mikey23545
12-08-2004, 11:50 AM
DV needs to remember that at his age he is probably going to end up in diapers a long time before Johnson does....

Brock
12-08-2004, 11:50 AM
There's nitpicking, and then there's this bullcrap. :rolleyes:

Gaz
12-08-2004, 11:52 AM
Vermeil sounded quite enthusiastic about Johnson in the postgame interview on the radio.

And I infer nothing derogatory in the stuff I have read.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not think there is a real issue here.

nmt1
12-08-2004, 11:52 AM
Certainly none of that is scathing, but it is qualified praise that when put within the context of Vermeil's refusal to criticize people that outright suck at their jobs on a daily basis seems a little misplaced.

I think Vermiel's "refusal to criticize people that outright suck at there jobs on a daily basis" probably stems from his belief that you get more out of your players by being positive and encouraging them. That and I think Vermiel doesn't think most of his players have "outright sucked...on a daily basis."
I'll take his word for it as works with them every day.

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 11:53 AM
I find it odd that you didnt highlight this particular sentence of your first example:

"That will all come once he gains the confidence and patience. "

MichaelH
12-08-2004, 11:54 AM
I'm certainly not defending DV but maybe he expects much more out of Johnson than Blaylock. I don't know where we drafted Blaylock offhand, but I know it wasn't in the first round. He's like the gifted kid that gets A- on his test and the teacher is hard on him. JMO

nmt1
12-08-2004, 11:56 AM
I'm certainly not defending DV but maybe he expects much more out of Johnson than Blaylock. I don't know where we drafted Blaylock offhand, but I know it wasn't in the first round. He's like the gifted kid that gets A- on his test and the teacher is hard on him. JMO

Transactions: Signed a one-year contract with Kansas City (3/24/04) ... Signed a three-year contract with Kansas City (6/8/01) ... Originally joined the Chiefs as the second of the club’s two draft choices in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft (150th overall).

Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/derrick_blaylock/)

NewChief
12-08-2004, 11:57 AM
I find it odd that you didnt highlight this particular sentence of your first example:

"That will all come once he gains the confidence and patience. "

I was bolding the qualifications. That would be a qualification of the qualification. ;)

KCTitus
12-08-2004, 11:58 AM
I was bolding the qualifications. That would be a qualification of the qualification. ;)

Oh Lord...

MichaelH
12-08-2004, 11:59 AM
Transactions: Signed a one-year contract with Kansas City (3/24/04) ... Signed a three-year contract with Kansas City (6/8/01) ... Originally joined the Chiefs as the second of the club’s two draft choices in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft (150th overall).

Source (http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/derrick_blaylock/)

Thanks! I was going to say the 5th round but wasn't 100% sure.

Pitt Gorilla
12-08-2004, 12:00 PM
Blaylock is easily the fastest guy on the team. I like Johnson a lot, but he's not as fast as Blaylock; that's not a slam, that's the truth according to the stopwatch.

Bwana
12-08-2004, 12:01 PM
DV has turned into an old fool before our eyes. Drop the grudge Dick.

MichaelH
12-08-2004, 12:04 PM
Blaylock is easily the fastest guy on the team. I like Johnson a lot, but he's not as fast as Blaylock; that's not a slam, that's the truth according to the stopwatch.

Maybe he could play MLB? :hmmm:

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 12:09 PM
Johnson looked great IMO. I like Vermeil, but wish he would quite slamming Larry every chance he gets. Last week he was saying that Johnson was probably the fastest guy on the team in the 40 and this week he is no faster than Blaylock! He took his diaper off, now get behind your back and give him some credit.
i didnt see Vermeil say anything particularly bad about Johnson in what you posted.

typical head coach stuff ... little good,little bad etc


just evaluation



don't tell me ........ Johnson is on his way to being the next poster child for fans to cry about. :banghead: :banghead:


don't be so mean to larry, don't be so mean to larry


larry-basher, larry hater, you not a true fan if you dont like larry




Support Larry Johson for President!!!!




:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Lzen
12-08-2004, 12:30 PM
I challenge all of you DV bashers to go back and look at the game again and then tell me there was anything false about what Dick said. I got the same impression after watching it again. And this was before I ever read this.

In the end, I like LJ and believe he is the future for the Chiefs RB position. I also believe that Dick is slowly warming up to him and will continue to do that if LJ continues to be a professional by preparing and playing in games the way he has the past couple games.

milkman
12-08-2004, 12:41 PM
I challenge all of you DV bashers to go back and look at the game again and then tell me there was anything false about what Dick said. I got the same impression after watching it again. And this was before I ever read this.

In the end, I like LJ and believe he is the future for the Chiefs RB position. I also believe that Dick is slowly warming up to him and will continue to do that if LJ continues to be a professional by preparing and playing in games the way he has the past couple games.

I agree with those that don't feel Dick said anything derogatory about LJ in the quotes.

But how do any of us know that LJ hasn't been professional in his preparation for games before he got the chance to actually play in real games.

I don't like Dick, and never have.
His one negative comment that has stuck, the diaper comment, wasn't necessary, and I can understand LJ's response to it.

That has been the thing, up until his chance to play, that everybody identified him with.

He would never have made that comment when speaking about one of his boys.

As far as I'm concerned, Dick is an asswipe, and I'll be dancing in the streets the day he moves on.

ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 12:48 PM
don't be so mean to larry, don't be so mean to larry

I have no problem with the coach praising the players and saying what they could have done better in the same sentence, but rarely do you see him doing it to other players. Seems like he has a beef with LJ.

Every praise he gives he says he should have done.... Unlike the excuses he gives for the defense or doesn't acknowledge the errors of others.

NewChief
12-08-2004, 12:49 PM
I challenge all of you DV bashers to go back and look at the game again and then tell me there was anything false about what Dick said. I got the same impression after watching it again. And this was before I ever read this.


I agree completely, and I posted many of the same criticisms about LJ's running style (running into his blockers, getting tripped up) in this game. I'm also not a DV basher. I like the man, his personality, and his coaching style. I just haven't liked his handling of LJ.

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 12:50 PM
I agree with those that don't feel Dick said anything derogatory about LJ in the quotes.

But how do any of us know that LJ hasn't been professional in his preparation for games before he got the chance to actually play in real games.

I don't like Dick, and never have.
His one negative comment that has stuck, the diaper comment, wasn't necessary, and I can understand LJ's response to it.

That has been the thing, up until his chance to play, that everybody identified him with.

He would never have made that comment when speaking about one of his boys.

As far as I'm concerned, Dick is an asswipe, and I'll be dancing in the streets the day he moves on.


i can understand this position and even agree with some of it



Vermeil creates a lot of his own problems and then cries about them

Mr. Laz
12-08-2004, 12:51 PM
I have no problem with the coach praising the players and saying what they could have done better in the same sentence, but rarely do you see him doing it to other players. Seems like he has a beef with LJ.

Every praise he gives he says he should have done.... Unlike the excuses he gives for the defense or doesn't acknowledge the errors of others.

no disagreement here...

ChiefsOne
12-08-2004, 01:03 PM
I'm also not a DV basher. I like the man, his personality, and his coaching style. I just haven't liked his handling of LJ.

Exact same feeling here. Hell I even liked the diaper quote (but should have kept it private to LJ). I think that motivated LJ to play a little better and learn more. Now that he is I think Vermiel should lay off.

tk13
12-08-2004, 02:01 PM
Vermeil gave Larry Johnson the game ball after the game despite the fact that a guy many would consider "his boy" (Trent Green) was darn near perfect in the second half..... I don't think he's really slamming him every chance he gets.

philfree
12-08-2004, 02:30 PM
His one negative comment that has stuck, the diaper comment, wasn't necessary, and I can understand LJ's response to it.

Did you actually see the interview where DV said this? I did and the was he said it wasn't meant as a knock at all IMO. The press took it and ran straight to LJ and baited him big time. Diaper Gate was so over blown it's not even funny.


PhilFree :arrow:

whoman69
12-08-2004, 06:36 PM
I find no problem with the statement that LJ played well, and can only get better. I don't find it negative at all.

Pants
12-08-2004, 07:09 PM
LMAO, I can't believe you guys are still on that diaper quote. Vermiel said it just popped in his head, he didn't mean anything bad when he said. It was like saying time for a rookie to go into his first game. Of course fans and media blow the shit to huge proportions and dwell on it for the next couple years.

As for your first post, ChiefsOne, DB is THE fastest man on the team and the strongest pound for pound. I'm not trying to protetct DB or dis LJ, I just find it incredibly annoying how you nitpick DV's comments to make it look like he hates LJ.

Logical
12-08-2004, 07:21 PM
...


Johnson looked great IMO. I like Vermeil, but wish he would quite slamming Larry every chance he gets. Last week he was saying that Johnson was probably the fastest guy on the team in the 40 and this week he is no faster than Blaylock! He took his diaper off, now get behind your back and give him some credit.

I would hardly call that a slam. I think you are being a tad bit sensitive.

Logical
12-08-2004, 07:27 PM
I'm having a hard time finding where Vermiel said anything negative about Larry Johnson in this. Can someone help me?

Obviously some people have become overly sensitive. I would agree that it was not effusive praise, but it certainly was not negative.

Logical
12-08-2004, 07:29 PM
I dont think DV's comments were qualified or critical of LJ...What I read was DV saying he did good and will only do better as he learns more about the game in the NFL.

Whoa, we agree on something Chiefs related.

philfree
12-08-2004, 07:30 PM
Last week he was saying that Johnson was probably the fastest guy on the team in the 40 and this week he is no faster than Blaylock!

Blaylock was a 4.3 guy coming our of college. If LJ is faster great but I don't think he is. LJ is sneaky fast IMO. He doesn't look as fast as he is but he weighs about 230 lbs. I like what he brings to the table.


PhilFree :arrow:

Logical
12-08-2004, 07:35 PM
I agree with those that don't feel Dick said anything derogatory about LJ in the quotes.

...

As far as I'm concerned, Dick is an asswipe, and I'll be dancing in the streets the day he moves on.

I hear that Karl Malone is going to be the next Chiefs Head Coach. ;) :p







... some of you will not get this comment, but milkman will.