PDA

View Full Version : Gretz out of Patience with Bartee


NewChief
12-14-2004, 06:28 AM
Even the mouth of the Chiefs is tired of Burntee:

http://kcchiefs.com/news/2004/12/14/gretz_the_value_of_patience/

GRETZ: The Value of Patience
Dec 14, 2004, 6:53:07 AM by Bob Gretz


NASHVILLE Ė Patience is such a wonderful virtue. Itís tough in todayís world of immediate gratification to take time to allow something to grow and develop. When it happens, itís a wonderful thing to see.



However, patience is no guarantee of success, especially on the football field.Teams have waited and waited for a player to develop, and years later they are still waiting.

Both ends of the patience spectrum were visible Monday night here in Nashville in a Chiefs victory that will go down as one of the most unusual in team history. A Chiefs fan had to be patient just to watch this game that lasted three hours and 42 minutes. The Titans scored 10 points in 48 seconds to tie the score and take a three-point lead, with just 99 seconds to play.

The Chiefs came back and without any timeouts scored a pair of touchdowns in 24 seconds, one on offense, the other on defense, to earn their fifth victory of the season. The Chiefs gave up 542 yards to a Tennessee offense led not by Steve McNair, Eddie George and Frank Wycheck, but Billy Volek, Chris Brown and Drew Bennett. Defensively they were awful and wore out the patience of coordinator Gunther Cunningham.

Yet in the end, the defense made several plays in the closing minutes that allowed the Chiefs to win the game.

That brings us back to our subject: patience. At one end of that spectrum for the Chiefs is running back Larry Johnson. On the other is cornerback William Bartee.

Letís start with Johnson. The first-round draft choice has been ridiculed, called names and forgotten during his two years in a Chiefs uniform; and thatís just by the head coach and his staff. There were times when Johnson did not say or do the right things, and thereís no doubt he pretty much pouted his way through his rookie season.

But Johnson returned for this season determined to handle things differently. There were setbacks a long the way and his name was part of trade rumors in October when the NFL deadline for deals came and went.

Johnson stayed and that was because of one man: Carl Peterson. He wasnít ready to give up on the young running back from Penn State. Despite the problems, despite the fact his coaching staff did not trust Johnson and was in no hurry to get him on the field, Peterson did not want to throw away someone he considered a talented player.

That patience is paying off. Johnson has put together consecutive 100-yard rushing games. Last week in Oakland, he showed his ability to be a power back. In Tennessee, Johnson showed he can be a speed back, scoring on TD runs of 46 and 41 yards in the second half. Itís possible to see his confidence grow from game to game, carry to carry. All he needed was opportunity.

On the other end is Bartee, who after seemingly making some progress this season, has taken steps backward in the last two games. He looks lost on the field and was continually beaten by the Titans, whether it was Bennett or Derrick Mason. He eventually was sent to the bench and replaced by veteran CB Dexter McCleon.

Bartee is in his fifth season with the team and the coaching staff has shown tremendous patience in that time, waiting for him to develop into the kind of talent thatís drafted in the second round.

That patience is not paying off and itís one reason the Chiefs pass defense is horrid. They are now allowing an average of 270 yards per game and in 13 games theyíve given up 27 TD passes.

The cornerback position is the No. 1 spot that must be retooled in the coming off-season. Bartee has worn out the patience of everyone. Second-year man Julian Battle has fallen so far in the estimation of the coaching staff that he did not play Monday night, not even on special teams. Dexter McCleon is not the every down answer at the position this late in his career.

When it comes to the Chiefs secondary, itís important to have patience.

headsnap
12-14-2004, 06:36 AM
I really thought this would be bartee's breakout year.



now I hope he never plays another down in a chiefs uni...

NewChief
12-14-2004, 06:38 AM
I really thought this would be bartee's breakout year.



nop I hope he never plays another down in a chiefs uni...

Yup. I thought with the return of Gun, Bartee would come into his own. Since Gun had drafted him, I thought that Bartee must just be waiting for the person that knows how to best utilize and coach him. Unfortunately, either his bad habits are unbreakable or he just sucks. Either way, he needs to go and never disgrace a Chiefs uniform again.

MichaelH
12-14-2004, 06:40 AM
He's either a terrible player or just has given up. Regardless, he needs to be cut and placed where he'll never blemish a defense again.

philfree
12-14-2004, 06:44 AM
Bartee shouldn't have been allowed on the plane back to KC. :shake:

PhilFree :arrow:

Wichita Lineman
12-14-2004, 06:51 AM
I've been saying it as long as anyone would listen.This guy was a mistake from day one and it's been proven over and over again. He evidently is uncoachable because he refuses to play like a pro and correct his mistakes. The mistakes he made last night are the same ones he's made all along. Get rid of this bum, my gandson could play this good and he'd appreciate it. By the way he's four years old.

ROYC75
12-14-2004, 06:59 AM
The guy can tackle,he probally needs to go back to safety position, like where he was drafted at and converted.

MichaelH
12-14-2004, 07:02 AM
The guy can tackle,he probally needs to go back to safety position, like where he was drafted at and converted.

If he plays Safety on the practice squad, I guess I could live with it. He doesn't belong on a field during a regular season game.

gblowfish
12-14-2004, 07:02 AM
Worst secondary in Chiefs history EVER!
Crispy Bartee
Toastee Warfield
"Oh Dexter" McCleon
"Burnt Battle"

All totally, utterly useless.

Baby Lee
12-14-2004, 07:23 AM
Re: McCleon

Anyone catch the view from that cam hovering over the field on the TD at the left back pylon right before half. You could see from the POV of just over Volek's shoulder, and you could see that McCleon had the play in his sights the whole time. His eyes went from Voleks' arm to the ball in flight, to the ball going over him to the reception.

AND HE DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GET HIMSELF IN POSITION!!!!

He knew for a good 6-7 strides that he was just a bit behind the play, and just kept running the same pace. Either he has absolutely no burst whatsoever, or he has absolutely no passion whatsoever. Either way, [unless there is an injury they've hidden from us] that play told me everything I ever needed to know about McCleon.

ROYC75
12-14-2004, 07:29 AM
If he plays Safety on the practice squad, I guess I could live with it. He doesn't belong on a field during a regular season game.

It's sad that is all we got..... :(

philfree
12-14-2004, 07:31 AM
Re: McCleon

Anyone catch the view from that cam hovering over the field on the TD at the left back pylon right before half. You could see from the POV of just over Volek's shoulder, and you could see that McCleon had the play in his sights the whole time. His eyes went from Voleks' arm to the ball in flight, to the ball going over him to the reception.

AND HE DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GET HIMSELF IN POSITION!!!!

He knew for a good 6-7 strides that he was just a bit behind the play, and just kept running the same pace. Either he has absolutely no burst whatsoever, or he has absolutely no passion whatsoever. Either way, [unless there is an injury they've hidden from us] that play told me everything I ever needed to know about McCleon.

5'10" vs 6'5" There wasn't much he could do on that one.


PhilFree :arrow:

Chiefnj
12-14-2004, 07:34 AM
Just weeks ago certain persons were petitioning to remove the Bartee smilie as he had "earned its removal."

headsnap
12-14-2004, 07:43 AM
Just weeks ago certain persons were petitioning to remove the Bartee smilie as he had "earned its removal."
and I was fighting to keep it because it was obviously his 'mojo.' :shake:

Douche Baggins
12-14-2004, 07:46 AM
I would definitely like to see him given a shot at free safety. He has plenty of range and size for that position.

He's just not good in man coverage. Let him support the run and sit back in zones.

He should never have been converted to corner.

Baby Lee
12-14-2004, 07:49 AM
5'10" vs 6'5" There wasn't much he could do on that one.


PhilFree :arrow:
That TD had nothing to do with height. The pass dropped into the receiver's breadbasket.

If you have the broadcast on tape/TiVO, go back and watch it. McCleon knew for an eternity where he had to get to and just kept striding at the same rate and intensity.

philfree
12-14-2004, 07:50 AM
I would definitely like to see him given a shot at free safety. He has plenty of range and size for that position.

He's just not good in man coverage. Let him support the run and sit back in zones.

He should never have been converted to corner.


NO! Get that dumb no playing mofo away from my team. He can't stay with his assignment(I think he forgets them), his man and he quits on plays where his beat. He got beat on almost the exact same play two weeks in a row! He is dumb when it comes to football :cuss:


PhilFree :arrow:

BigChiefFan
12-14-2004, 07:51 AM
Just another in a long line of tweeners, that haven't worked out. Carl is putting a square peg in a round hole and they wonder why it doesn't work very often. It's official Bartee is a bust.

MichaelH
12-14-2004, 07:51 AM
That TD had nothing to do with height. The pass dropped into the receiver's breadbasket.

If you have the broadcast on tape/TiVO, go back and watch it. McCleon knew for an eternity where he had to get to and just kept striding at the same rate and intensity.

I'm assuming the coaching staff sees this sort of thing. If he did lay down on the play, he should be cut by tomorrow.

philfree
12-14-2004, 07:54 AM
That TD had nothing to do with height. The pass dropped into the receiver's breadbasket.

If you have the broadcast on tape/TiVO, go back and watch it. McCleon knew for an eternity where he had to get to and just kept striding at the same rate and intensity.

It don't matter at this point. IMO we need a whole secondary. Two starting CBs and two Ss. These guys have developed into perenial lose the game types of players. That's their profile over several years. We'd be better off with 4 rookies :(

PhilFree :arrow:

the Talking Can
12-14-2004, 08:11 AM
Battl isn't even good enough to get playing time on the worst secondary in history....scary

Lzen
12-14-2004, 08:16 AM
BL,
I don't think McCleon played so terribly on that TD. Keep in mind that you're supposed to stay with the receivers in case the QB throws one of those purposely underthrown passes. And maybe Dex thought he had good position. As for the pass, it was placed incredibly well. I doubt too many CBs in the NFL could've prevented that touchdown. When I looked at the replay on that, I couldn't believe how perfectly placed and timed that ball was. That throw was a thing of beauty.

As for Bartee, I really thought he was becoming a legit NFL corner this year. He even played pretty well in his first start against Atlanta. Since then, he has regressed back to the ole Burntee.

I think headsnap said it best:

I really thought this would be bartee's breakout year.



now I hope he never plays another down in a chiefs uni...

That pretty much sums up my feelings about him. :shake:

Cochise
12-14-2004, 08:22 AM
I don't think McCleon played that pass poorly. He had good position it looked like, the combination of the throw and the reciever just beat him.

Bartee took a lot of steps forward this year, I thought, and was turning into someone who was not half bad in the nickel slot. However these last couple weeks he seems to be regressing.

I'm really not sad that we resigned him or anything. He was/is raw and we tried to coach him. Nothing wrong with trying to develop a player. But now is it time to give up on him?

chiefz
12-14-2004, 08:24 AM
Man, Bartee played like total shit again.

Much like always he shows a few flashes and then starts playing like shit.

When he got beat by Bennett on that one TD pass to the opposite corner it was pathetic, he just let him run right by him undefended.

Iowanian
12-14-2004, 08:25 AM
didn't bartee just get a new contract this past offseason? A GM should get a caning that makes Old Nuns cringe.

Bartee, battle both need to go..........McCleon is never better than a nickle or Dime.

Baby Lee
12-14-2004, 08:26 AM
I don't think McCleon played that pass poorly. He had good position it looked like, the combination of the throw and the reciever just beat him.
BS, that was a great throw and great catch. But McCloen had FOREVER to make a play. He had a full 3 seconds where the ball was in the air, the trajectory was clear, and McCleon had his eyes locked on it. Either he was running at full tilt, in which case he definitively doesn't have the speed necessary to play corner. Or he was dogging it, and definitively doesn't have the heart to wear the R&G.
Every team in the league, and half the teams in NFLE, has at least 2 CBs that would have had the closing speed to knock that pass down.

Demonpenz
12-14-2004, 08:27 AM
the good news is troy brown now has 3 more INT's than bartee

JohnnyV13
12-14-2004, 11:12 AM
I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem with the Chiefs secondary isn't physical ability. These guys are just dumb players.

That includes Warfield and especially Bartee. I think the ultimate was that game where Woods just pointed at an uncovered WR when the opposing offense was at the 5 yard line, " Hey, gosh, somebody ought to do something about that guy..." Since Woods is the "veteran leader"...hey Jerome..guess what...its YOU who should be doing something.

I also think that is why our D performance went south after Maz went down last year. Maz isn't great, but he's SMART and made the defensive calls for the front seven. I think our biggest problem is we have a collection of football dumb in the back seven.

To me that means we need a SMART safety and LB in FA.

whoman69
12-14-2004, 11:27 AM
This from a team that once had:
Thomas/Marsalis/Kearney/Robinson or
Ross/Lewis/Cherry/damn, cant remember the other stud


Keep doubting Benny Sapp, at least he makes tackles. This team needs to replace at least 3 CBs next year. I can't understand how anyone, even Bartee's mother still had patience after 2002.

Calcountry
12-14-2004, 11:35 AM
Yup. I thought with the return of Gun, Bartee would come into his own. Since Gun had drafted him, I thought that Bartee must just be waiting for the person that knows how to best utilize and coach him. Unfortunately, either his bad habits are unbreakable or he just sucks. Either way, he needs to go and never disgrace a Chiefs uniform again.
He was a fuggin embarrasment yesterday. I mean, the receiver pulled a calf muscle he punked him so much.

Frankie
12-14-2004, 12:02 PM
Bartee shouldn't have been allowed on the plane back to KC. :shake:

Dragging him behind the plane would have been good. Preferably by his nu... err... ankles.

Frankie
12-14-2004, 12:07 PM
I would definitely like to see him given a shot at free safety. He has plenty of range and size for that position.

He's just not good in man coverage. Let him support the run and sit back in zones.

He should never have been converted to corner.
I'd be willing for the chiefs to give that a try. But if by the end of the preseason he hasn't justified the switch cut his ass and our losses.

Frankie
12-14-2004, 12:13 PM
I also think that is why our D performance went south after Maz went down last year. Maz isn't great, but he's SMART and made the defensive calls for the front seven.

Hey here's an idea. How about Maz as our LB coach?
:hmmm:

Frankie
12-14-2004, 12:16 PM
This from a team that once had:
Thomas/Marsalis/Kearney/Robinson or
Ross/Lewis/Cherry/.....
Gary Green/ Gary Barbaro/ Eric Harris/?
That wasn't a shabby group either. And don't forget Hasty.

picasso
12-14-2004, 02:04 PM
Dick and Gunther have to make a statement after this game to the defense. Cut Bartee before the next game. Send a statement of disapproval. Send a statement that they are playing for their jobs. Not just after the season but now. Personally the only guy that stood out to me last night was Harts. Caused a fumble, sacked the QB and never was thrown at.

Lzen
12-14-2004, 02:39 PM
This from a team that once had:
Thomas/Marsalis/Kearney/Robinson or
Ross/Lewis/Cherry/damn, cant remember the other stud


Keep doubting Benny Sapp, at least he makes tackles. This team needs to replace at least 3 CBs next year. I can't understand how anyone, even Bartee's mother still had patience after 2002.

Do you mean Loyd Burress or Kevin Porter? Or how about Dale Carter, James Hasty, William White, and Mark Collins. Or even a couple years later it was Carter, Hasty, Reggie Tongue, and Jerome Woods(when Woods was playing well).

ENDelt260
12-14-2004, 02:42 PM
Am I too late for the classless and deranged joke?

Calcountry
12-14-2004, 02:45 PM
Am I too late for the classless and deranged joke?
Drinking slows the reflexes.

bringbackmarty
12-14-2004, 02:48 PM
mitchell had a good game. at least in the second half.

Calcountry
12-14-2004, 02:55 PM
mitchell had a good game. at least in the second half.
Marty sucks.

Deberg_1990
12-14-2004, 03:15 PM
In all honestly, Bartee should have been dumped after the disaterious 2002 season. We all knew he was trash 2 years ago....Vermeil was waaay too patient with him.

Rausch
12-14-2004, 04:09 PM
The only guy in or secondary who looks somewhat talented and can actually tackle is Harts. I'd like to keep harts and see what we've got there.

Other than that the rest could go. I'd keep Battle another year and see if he develops...He doesn't get burned, he just has stupid penalties and plays too physical with the WR...

Logical
12-14-2004, 04:17 PM
LOL I am loving this thread. However, I said all I needed to say on the subject the day he was re-signed.

go bowe
12-14-2004, 04:22 PM
The only guy in or secondary who looks somewhat talented and can actually tackle is Harts. I'd like to keep harts and see what we've got there.

Other than that the rest could go. I'd keep Battle another year and see if he develops...He doesn't get burned, he just has stupid penalties and plays too physical with the WR...it's because he is too physical that he gets the penalties...

but now that you mention it, it does seem like battle doesn't get burned...

another year of coaching might do the trick, 'cause he has all the physical tools, he just needs to learn to play without his hands all over the receiver, which can be coached (i hope)...

shaneo69
12-14-2004, 04:24 PM
but now that you mention it, it does seem like battle doesn't get burned...

Huh? He got burned twice within minutes in the New England game and got benched right after that.

Rausch
12-14-2004, 04:27 PM
Huh? He got burned twice within minutes in the New England game and got benched right after that.

I don't remember getting burned, I remember two PI penalties...I do remember him giving up a short TD (i think it was a fade route?)

Skip Towne
12-14-2004, 04:46 PM
I've had it with Barftee. His M.O. is to run with the receiver, never look for the ball and crash into the receiver after he makes the catch. No wonder he has zero INT's in 5 years.

LiL stumppy
12-14-2004, 06:25 PM
The guy can tackle,he probally needs to go back to safety position, like where he was drafted at and converted.


Thats what I was saying.Hes big and would be a good SS.I say we convert him back and keep him for next year.

Ari Chi3fs
12-14-2004, 07:38 PM
At least Bartee can say he was a 5 year veteran of the NFL.

Skip Towne
12-14-2004, 07:44 PM
At least Bartee can say he was a 5 year veteran of the NFL.
Has there EVER been a 5 yr vet CB with NO Int's? He may have an all time record.

WilliamTheIrish
12-14-2004, 07:47 PM
Thats what I was saying.Hes big and would be a good SS.I say we convert him back and keep him for next year.

That's fine. Just let him be a SS with another franchise.

Skip Towne
12-14-2004, 07:57 PM
That's fine. Just let him be a SS with another franchise.
I agree. You'd think he would accidently get a pick here and there. A tipped ball or QB screwup but Noooooo! Safeties have to cover receivers too so let him do it for someone else.

headsnap
12-14-2004, 08:08 PM
Has there EVER been a 5 yr vet CB with NO Int's? He may have an all time record.

and a starter to boot! :shake:

ChiTown
12-14-2004, 08:38 PM
Has there EVER been a 5 yr vet CB with NO Int's? He may have an all time record.

That is sooooo wrong.

I would love to break Bartee's neck, but I doubt there's anything that could turn that sonofabitch :cuss:

brent102fire
12-14-2004, 09:02 PM
Bartee couldn't even cover Mason with a sprained ankle last night. That's ridiculous. :mad: :cuss: :banghead: :shake:

PastorMikH
12-14-2004, 11:58 PM
Guy in our church is a solid OU fan and is like a walking statastician on the Sooners football team. He came over to watch the game last night with one of the other guys in the church. He said he was suprised to see Bartee on our roster because he wasn't that good when he was at OU. He also said that Bartee played on some of the worst OU teams and tht he probably wouldn't have started on the better teams.




I'm ready for some corners. Warfield would make a great nickleback.

go bowe
12-15-2004, 12:04 AM
Guy in our church is a solid OU fan and is like a walking statastician on the Sooners football team. He came over to watch the game last night with one of the other guys in the church. He said he was suprised to see Bartee on our roster because he wasn't that good when he was at OU. He also said that Bartee played on some of the worst OU teams and tht he probably wouldn't have started on the better teams.




I'm ready for some corners. Warfield would make a great nickleback.do you think there will be 2 starting quality cb's available in fa?

because i doubt that dv would play a rookie corner and we need to win next year before the o disintegrates...

and, even if there are, will cp pay what it takes to get them?

PastorMikH
12-15-2004, 12:07 AM
do you think there will be 2 starting quality cb's available in fa?

because i doubt that dv would play a rookie corner and we need to win next year before the o disintegrates...

and, even if there are, will cp pay what it takes to get them?



By starters available, do you mean guys that could start on most teams? Or do you mean 2 guys that are good enough to bump our starters down the list and start for us?:)

go bowe
12-15-2004, 12:18 AM
By starters available, do you mean guys that could start on most teams? Or do you mean 2 guys that are good enough to bump our starters down the list and start for us?:)i mean at least good enough to start on most teams...

it wouldn't take much to bump bartee, mccleon or battle down the list...

although i hold out some hope for battle improving with more coaching and practice reps...

Dick Bull
12-15-2004, 01:06 AM
i mean at least good enough to start on most teams...

it wouldn't take much to bump bartee, mccleon or battle down the list...

although i hold out some hope for battle improving with more coaching and practice reps...

Get rid of the hope, according to all I've heard he is regressing. Much like a less talented bartee. Lord knows we don't need that.

Frankie
12-15-2004, 10:12 AM
That's fine. Just let him be a SS with another franchise.
Preferably Donkos or Faders.