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BigRedChief
12-14-2004, 03:48 PM
From DV press conference:

Q: Could you put your finger on whether it’s play calling, the scheme, or talent. You gave up 542 yards or something?
VERMEIL: “That’s not unique in this league anymore, but it’s too many yards for any team that wants to be a good football team. We’ve done it since I’ve been here so maybe I’m the common denominator. We’ve had two different coordinators and we’re still doing the same things. We obviously thought what we did was right and we think we have more talent than that. I think some of our problems are we’re just putting our guys under too much pressure.”


I thought these were all charecter guys that wouldn't be fazed by the pressure?

Bob Dole
12-14-2004, 03:53 PM
They are caving to the pressure from opposing offenses--not the damned coaching staff.

ChiefsCountry
12-14-2004, 03:59 PM
I wish he quit making excuses for them. They flat out suck, yes tell them that Dick. You tell that to your punter, who was just as bad as the defense, but not your defense.

KCN
12-14-2004, 04:00 PM
We’ve done it since I’ve been here so maybe I’m the common denominator. We’ve had two different coordinators and we’re still doing the same things.

:banghead:

Just once mention putting even a sliver of blame on the talent. Just once! You have no problem doing so with punters.

StcChief
12-14-2004, 04:04 PM
Talent and lack of NFL experience is still a missing factor.
Maybe getting the Gun D down maybe,

Even though half are backups we are in week 14 regular season.

Has to be talent....

NaptownChief
12-14-2004, 04:19 PM
They are putting too much pressure on them...They are asking them to do something they aren't very good at....play defense.

It is a ton of pressure and stress when you are responsible for something you aren't able to do.

Logical
12-14-2004, 04:22 PM
They are putting too much pressure on them...They are asking them to do something they aren't very good at....play defense.

It is a ton of pressure and stress when you are responsible for something you aren't able to do.Best response.

Dave Lane
12-14-2004, 04:27 PM
From DV press conference:

Q: Could you put your finger on whether it’s play calling, the scheme, or talent. You gave up 542 yards or something?
VERMEIL: “That’s not unique in this league anymore, but it’s too many yards for any team that wants to be a good football team. We’ve done it since I’ve been here so maybe I’m the common denominator. We’ve had two different coordinators and we’re still doing the same things. We obviously thought what we did was right and we think we have more talent than that. I think some of our problems are we’re just putting our guys under too much pressure.”


I thought these were all charecter guys that wouldn't be fazed by the pressure?


Pressure! I'll give you pressure how about cutting 4-5 of them in the middle of a game! I'd tell them next time you get scorched you are done. Take off the uniform at mid field and head up into the stands!

Dave

philfree
12-14-2004, 04:28 PM
I think this thread needs this part of the press conference to be added to it.

Q: Can you expound on what you meant when you said you’re putting them under too much pressure?

VERMEIL: “I already did. I already did. Tight bump-and-run man-to-man coverage when you’re out there on an island by yourself. You can win five or six times when they’re trying to go after you, but if you’re beaten one time and it’s six points that’s the one play you lost. I think we’ve got to look at ourselves and see how many times we did it last week. We got hurt in blitz coverages which normally you’re in tight man-to-man.


PhilFree :arrow:

NaptownChief
12-14-2004, 04:31 PM
Pressure! I'll give you pressure how about cutting 4-5 of them in the middle of a game! I'd tell them next time you get scorched you are done. Take off the uniform at mid field and head up into the stands!

Dave


That would be fair if they played this bad due to a lack of preparation and effort however they aren't playing this poorly due to effort. They are playing this poorly because that is all the better that they are. The person that should be fired in the middle of the game is the person responsible for keeping all of them after having seen how bad they were in previous years.

The Bad Guy
12-14-2004, 04:31 PM
Yawn.

Putting too much pressure? Who has more pressure than your offense? They have to score 40+ points to win games.

The excuses have to stop. I'm sick of the PR spin that this old ass puts on everything defensive related.

Too much pressure? They are paid to tackle and cover people and they can't do that.

You did think you have more talent, but you've shown that you know diddily shit about the defensive side of football. You don't have enough talent. The talent you have sucks.

Vermeil will call out the 3rd string running back and overweight players, but he will never criticize his fragile defense. The same defense that's going to force his legacy in KC to be considered one of massive failure because his defense was one of the worst of all time.

NaptownChief
12-14-2004, 04:36 PM
The same defense that's going to force his legacy in KC to be considered one of massive failure because his defense was one of the worst of all time.


"going"? It hasn't already? Closing up year 4 and one pitiful playoff appearance in which they couldn't even force a punt. The old dude cost us a 2nd and 3rd round choice to take a 9-7 no where. He is a nice guy but his talent evaluation has always been sub par and combine that with the worst talent scouts and GM in the NFL and you have the disaster that is the KC Chiefs.

Calcountry
12-14-2004, 05:14 PM
I wish he quit making excuses for them. They flat out suck, yes tell them that Dick. You tell that to your punter, who was just as bad as the defense, but not your defense.
Yeah Dick, you tell your #1 pick, he has to take off diapers!!! WTF don't you ream out Bartee??

Iowanian
12-14-2004, 05:18 PM
If anyone in the secondary cashes their checks from this week, they should be arrested for Shoplifting.

AZChief
12-14-2004, 05:28 PM
I think Vermiel's assessment was spot on. You've got to read inbetween the lines. What he is saying is "our corners are not good enough to play man on man press. We effed up in the offseason by sitting pat, we thought Bartee would ascend to be a good player. We were wrong. We thought Battle would be ready to go but he gets flagged on every effin' play. Warfield is still inconsistent and makes 5 plays then gets burned for a deep touchdown. We have to sit back in the same zones as last year and make teams pick us apart on 12 play drives and score rather than score quickly on one big play."

It also might help if our linebackers (yes, the same ones who cannot stop the run) could cover one effin' underneath route....or if our defensive line could get to the qb one step sooner...

I think he realizes that personel changes need to be made on the defense but what good is it going to do to embarrass these players now? Limp out the next 3 weeks than startover...

az

p.s. and by "what good is it going to do to embarrass these players" I mean in the locker room and internally at One Arrowhead. Hell, it would make me feel great if he'd flame Bartee for the waste he's proven to be but Vermeil knows the kid is going to be delivering beer in Norman, Ok in a matter of months...

Iowanian
12-14-2004, 05:29 PM
They just think "pressure"...........If I were the coach or GM.......the PRESSURE they'd be feeling was my Work Boot scraping their prostates on the way out of my office with a pink slip, or standing on their Larnyx.

KC Dan
12-14-2004, 05:29 PM
I think Vermiel's assessment was spot on. You've got to read inbetween the lines. What he is saying is "our corners are not good enough to play man on man press. We effed up in the offseason by sitting pat, we thought Bartee would ascend to be a good player. We were wrong. We thought Battle would be ready to go but he gets flagged on every effin' play. Warfield is still inconsistent and makes 5 plays then gets burned for a deep touchdown. We have to sit back in the same zones as last year and make teams pick us apart on 12 plays and score rather than score quickly on one big play."

It also might help if our linebackers (yes, the same ones who cannot stop the run) could cover one effin' underneath route....or if our defensive line could get to the qb one step sooner...

I think he realizes that personel changes need to be made on the defense but what good is it going to do to embarrass these players now? Limp out the next 3 weeks than startover...

az
If only I could believe that was his meaning.......

Logical
12-14-2004, 05:29 PM
I think this thread needs this part of the press conference to be added to it.

Q: Can you expound on what you meant when you said you’re putting them under too much pressure?

VERMEIL: “I already did. I already did. Tight bump-and-run man-to-man coverage when you’re out there on an island by yourself. You can win five or six times when they’re trying to go after you, but if you’re beaten one time and it’s six points that’s the one play you lost. I think we’ve got to look at ourselves and see how many times we did it last week. We got hurt in blitz coverages which normally you’re in tight man-to-man.


PhilFree :arrow:

And this helps how? All it shows is DV is unwilling to blame the lack of talent on this team and wants to place the blame on the scheme.

philfree
12-14-2004, 05:38 PM
And this helps how? All it shows is DV is unwilling to blame the lack of talent on this team and wants to place the blame on the scheme.

I didn't say it helped anything but I think the quote should be taken in context regardless. If you really consider the statement and the things that he said I think he did say the players(CBs/2ndary) weren't good enough. He just didn't say it in those words.

PhilFree :arrow:

Calcountry
12-14-2004, 06:05 PM
I think Vermiel's assessment was spot on. You've got to read inbetween the lines. What he is saying is "our corners are not good enough to play man on man press. We effed up in the offseason by sitting pat, we thought Bartee would ascend to be a good player. We were wrong. We thought Battle would be ready to go but he gets flagged on every effin' play. Warfield is still inconsistent and makes 5 plays then gets burned for a deep touchdown. We have to sit back in the same zones as last year and make teams pick us apart on 12 play drives and score rather than score quickly on one big play."

It also might help if our linebackers (yes, the same ones who cannot stop the run) could cover one effin' underneath route....or if our defensive line could get to the qb one step sooner...

I think he realizes that personel changes need to be made on the defense but what good is it going to do to embarrass these players now? Limp out the next 3 weeks than startover...

az

p.s. and by "what good is it going to do to embarrass these players" I mean in the locker room and internally at One Arrowhead. Hell, it would make me feel great if he'd flame Bartee for the waste he's proven to be but Vermeil knows the kid is going to be delivering beer in Norman, Ok in a matter of months...
Why not embarrass them? They sure as heck have been embarrasing all of us for 2 years now.

Frazod
12-14-2004, 07:47 PM
I sooooooooooo hope Dick retires. :#

BigRedChief
12-14-2004, 09:21 PM
the basic question in all of these posts is wtf is DV doing coodling the defensive players? Where's the responsibility?

Ugly Duck
12-15-2004, 03:21 AM
VD on the defense: "We put too much pressure on them"
And so did Atlanta. And Carolina & Tampa Bay & Houston & San Diego &......

Pants
12-15-2004, 03:35 AM
And so did Atlanta. And Carolina & Tampa Bay & Houston & San Diego &......

Get the **** outta my house. Atlanta put up 3 points on our D.

DaWolf
12-15-2004, 04:41 AM
Reading the transcript, I think DV was accurate. He basically said these guys were not capable of doing what we keep calling defensively. He states that they made a mistake in the offseason with their decision to not make changes, and says that the results have basically been the same with two different D coordinators, so maybe he himself (DV) is the common denominator.

I think DV really felt that some of these young guys would be ready to step up and develop into solid football players. He's probably beside himself that guys like Bartee, Mitchell, Battle, etc. have all been such monumental flops and that guys like McCleon and the safeties have regressed so much. They definitely miscalculated there. The tone of what he was saying also left no doubt in my mind that this defense will (finally) be blown up once the season ends...

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 06:04 AM
DV took the blame and BRC missed it completely proving once again that the written word totally escapes him.

the Talking Can
12-15-2004, 07:02 AM
I think this thread needs this part of the press conference to be added to it.

Q: Can you expound on what you meant when you said you’re putting them under too much pressure?

VERMEIL: “I already did. I already did. Tight bump-and-run man-to-man coverage when you’re out there on an island by yourself. You can win five or six times when they’re trying to go after you, but if you’re beaten one time and it’s six points that’s the one play you lost. I think we’ve got to look at ourselves and see how many times we did it last week. We got hurt in blitz coverages which normally you’re in tight man-to-man.


PhilFree :arrow:

like playing Bartee in single coverage all night?

in the 13th game of the season that's Gunther's fault

the Talking Can
12-15-2004, 07:08 AM
anyone have a link to the full interview?

BigRedChief
12-15-2004, 07:12 AM
DV took the blame and BRC missed it completely proving once again that the written word totally escapes him.

WTF is wrong with you? You just like to argue on BB's with total strangers? Does it make you feel superior? Inflate your ego? You either back off this :BS:or prepare for :bang:

As far as the article and press conference goes Where have I said in this thread that DV didn't take any blame? All coaches every time say they are the blame publically. We just didn't get it done etc. It's just standard coach speak.

nmt1
12-15-2004, 07:14 AM
anyone have a link to the full interview?

Interview Link (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2004/12/14/vermeil_press_conference/)

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 07:19 AM
WTF is wrong with you? You just like to argue on BB's with total strangers? Does it make you feel superior? Inflate your ego? You either back off this :BS:or prepare for :bang:

As far as the article and press conference goes Where have I said in this thread that DV didn't take any blame? All coaches every time say they are the blame publically. We just didn't get it done etc. It's just standard coach speak.

See post #22...then re-read the thread starter.

I cant help it that you set off my BS meter and thus forces me to respond.

the Talking Can
12-15-2004, 07:20 AM
Interview Link (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2004/12/14/vermeil_press_conference/)

thanks

Devin Vierth
12-15-2004, 07:25 AM
VERMEIL:“Obviously we have the same problems on defense. They’re glaring and I don’t know if they’re solvable. I do think maybe we’re asking guys to do some things within the scheme that they just can’t physically consistently do too many snaps in a row. We did adjust it in the second half and it helped us. The defensive coaches under Gunther made some nice adjustments that helped us. But we’ve got to critically evaluate that and keep coaching.

Q: What are some of the things that guys are being asked to do that they can’t?

VERMEIL: “Mainly it’s press coverage, press man-to-man. When we do it perfectly technique-wise we do it well. Our problem has been more often than not that when it happens (the opposition is executing it) perfectly at that time, thus making it a more glaring big play.”

Looks to me like he gets it.......

Q: Last night on the broadcast, Al Michaels and John Madden made reference to when they met with you the night before you (Vermeil) had said rather it be free agency or the draft you’re going to have to upgrade the speed in the linebackers and the secondary. In hindsight is that something you should have addressed last off-season? Is it possible you….

And here he admits his mistake............

VERMEIL: “Whenever you’re playing as poorly as we’re playing on defense there’s a lot of things we possibly should have done. Hindsight is always better. But we did what we thought was best.

Listen, I realize that many here would get great satisfaction out of Vermeil calling the guys out publically, but would that really help them? He sees it as a lack of talent...they are not going to get better, we need better players.

On the other hand, he has been hard on Larry Johnson, but Larry has the talent and maybe, just maybe Vermeil knew how to push his buttons to get the most out of him...maybe, just maybe Dick knows what he is talking about....

BigRedChief
12-15-2004, 07:27 AM
See post #22...then re-read the thread starter.

I cant help it that you set off my BS meter and thus forces me to respond.

Yeah? So frigging what? What did I do that was so far out of line that you have to make a snide ass comment? Just STFU

Devin Vierth
12-15-2004, 07:28 AM
BRC, KCTitus called it right....sorry.

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 07:30 AM
Yeah? So frigging what? What did I do that was so far out of line that you have to make a snide ass comment? Just STFU

You asked 'where's the responsibility' and it was noted in DV's own comments.

Since you fail to understand what DV was saying, let me help you out...

He's saying that maybe he's the one who overestimated the talent they had. They thought they had enough talent went through 2 coordinators and still no results...That's what 'common denominator' means. Putting on 'pressure' basically means they were asking them to do too much.

It's kind of a diplomatic way of saying they're not very good and DV screwed up.

Devin Vierth
12-15-2004, 07:32 AM
You asked 'where's the responsibility' and it was noted in DV's own comments.

Since you fail to understand what DV was saying, let me help you out...

He's saying that maybe he's the one who overestimated the talent they had. They thought they had enough talent went through 2 coordinators and still no results...That's what 'common denominator' means. Putting on 'pressure' basically means they were asking them to do too much.

It's kind of a diplomatic way of saying they're not very good and DV screwed up.


Ding, ding, ding.....

Folks, we have a winner....

the Talking Can
12-15-2004, 07:33 AM
You asked 'where's the responsibility' and it was noted in DV's own comments.

Since you fail to understand what DV was saying, let me help you out...

He's saying that maybe he's the one who overestimated the talent they had. They thought they had enough talent went through 2 coordinators and still no results...That's what 'common denominator' means. Putting on 'pressure' basically means they were asking them to do too much.

It's kind of a diplomatic way of saying they're not very good and DV screwed up.

are you saying you're too good for teh Jim Rome show?


"rack him"

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 07:35 AM
are you saying you're too good for teh Jim Rome show?

"rack him"

Yes, that's exactly what Im saying.

milkman
12-15-2004, 07:42 AM
VERMEIL:“Obviously we have the same problems on defense. They’re glaring and I don’t know if they’re solvable. I do think maybe we’re asking guys to do some things within the scheme that they just can’t physically consistently do too many snaps in a row. We did adjust it in the second half and it helped us. The defensive coaches under Gunther made some nice adjustments that helped us. But we’ve got to critically evaluate that and keep coaching.

Q: What are some of the things that guys are being asked to do that they can’t?

VERMEIL: “Mainly it’s press coverage, press man-to-man. When we do it perfectly technique-wise we do it well. Our problem has been more often than not that when it happens (the opposition is executing it) perfectly at that time, thus making it a more glaring big play.”

Looks to me like he gets it.......

Q: Last night on the broadcast, Al Michaels and John Madden made reference to when they met with you the night before you (Vermeil) had said rather it be free agency or the draft you’re going to have to upgrade the speed in the linebackers and the secondary. In hindsight is that something you should have addressed last off-season? Is it possible you….

And here he admits his mistake............

VERMEIL: “Whenever you’re playing as poorly as we’re playing on defense there’s a lot of things we possibly should have done. Hindsight is always better. But we did what we thought was best.

Listen, I realize that many here would get great satisfaction out of Vermeil calling the guys out publically, but would that really help them? He sees it as a lack of talent...they are not going to get better, we need better players.

On the other hand, he has been hard on Larry Johnson, but Larry has the talent and maybe, just maybe Vermeil knew how to push his buttons to get the most out of him...maybe, just maybe Dick knows what he is talking about....

I agree with almost all of this.
But, what I don't get is why Dick felt the need to call Johnson out, when Johnson never had any real opportuninty to play, and therefore never had any chance to give Dick a reason to do it.

I still think that Dick is a cocksucker that coddles his "guys", while at the same time calls out individuals that he doesn't care for on a personal level.

Dick is just a prick.

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 07:46 AM
I'll never understand the whole DV and LJ thing...it seems so out of character for DV.

I was glad to see LJ make the most of his reps on Monday.

bricks
12-15-2004, 07:47 AM
:rolleyes: :shake: (huh, breathes a sigh) Maybe we should all get together, and boycott around 1 Arrowhead Dr. Ph*cking protest on how much this defense sucks balls. Do you think maybe, just maybe they get the point by then? I'm going crazy. :cuss:

Devin Vierth
12-15-2004, 07:48 AM
I agree with almost all of this.
But, what I don't get is why Dick felt the need to call Johnson out, when Johnson never had any real opportuninty to play, and therefore never had any chance to give Dick a reason to do it.

I still think that Dick is a one who sucks the penis that coddles his "guys", while at the same time calls out individuals that he doesn't care for on a personal level.

Dick is just a prick.

Could be....but the one thing we will never know is what goes on behind the scenes. We don't get to see the day to day. Dick is known as a players coach and I have yet to hear one of his former players say anything, but good about him. Now, maybe I just have not been privy to a conversation like that, but it is my evaluation that Dick knows what he is doing.

Devin Vierth
12-15-2004, 07:50 AM
:rolleyes: :shake: (huh, breathes a sigh) Maybe we should all get together, and boycott around 1 Arrowhead Dr. Ph*cking protest on how much this defense sucks balls. Do you think maybe, just maybe they get the point by then? I'm going crazy. :cuss:


Wow, I think they have drugs for that........a, legal ones......

milkman
12-15-2004, 07:59 AM
Could be....but the one thing we will never know is what goes on behind the scenes. We don't get to see the day to day. Dick is known as a players coach and I have yet to hear one of his former players say anything, but good about him. Now, maybe I just have not been privy to a conversation like that, but it is my evaluation that Dick knows what he is doing.

Even without that behind the scenes knowledge, there is nothing tha LJ could have done in practice that was worse than the play of this D.

If it was something off the field, then the comments should have stayed out of the paper.
It should have been a private conversation between Dick and Larry.

Chiefnj
12-15-2004, 08:05 AM
Dick clearly prefers Robinson's bend but eventually break defense as opposed to Gunther's aggressive D which can give up 6 points quickly.

Devin Vierth
12-15-2004, 09:51 AM
Dick clearly prefers Robinson's bend but eventually break defense as opposed to Gunther's aggressive D which can give up 6 points quickly.


With our secondary's inability to play anyone man for man, I do too. Like the coaching staff I thought our players had the talent to adapt to the man coverage scheme Gun's defense calls for. I was wrong (horribly, terribly wrong), so were they.

The cost?? One wasted season and maybe more if we can't make all the personel changes needed in one year. And I doubt we can. Shutdown CB's are hard to find.

NaptownChief
12-15-2004, 02:35 PM
I'll never understand the whole DV and LJ thing...it seems so out of character for DV.

I was glad to see LJ make the most of his reps on Monday.


Agree on both points...Only thing I can imagine is that DV got in such a heated pissing match with Bozo Peterson over the pick of LJ instead of Brayton and can't let himself get over it.

As most people speculated, Peterson probably wanted the LJ pick to give him leverage on the Holmes contract and DV knew he badly needed defensive talent. When Peterson played the GM trump card to make his job easier rather than helping DV make his easier a lot of bad blood was probably spilt cause they way he has acted like a scorned women towards LJ is way out of character.

KC Dan
12-15-2004, 02:59 PM
Dick clearly prefers Robinson's bend but eventually break defense as opposed to Gunther's aggressive D which can give up 6 points quickly.
Unfortuately, GR's bend-don't break D gave up many 6 pt big plays as well.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 03:02 PM
I think DV has it backwards: we are putting WAY too much pressure on the OFFENSE. Fercrissakes, they have to score 42 points a game if they hope to win!! I have never in my life seen a team capable of consistently losing games when they score 30 points (+-4).

NaptownChief
12-15-2004, 03:02 PM
Unfortuately, GR's bend-don't break D gave up many 6 pt big plays as well.


Yeah, it was more of a Bend-but-Shatter version of the bend-but-don't break.

KC Dan
12-15-2004, 03:04 PM
Yeah, it was more of a Bend-but-Shatter version of the bend-but-don't break.
I liked to call it the Bend/Piss me off beyond all repair/give up 3rd and 23 - 1st down/until I lose my friggin' mind/break my drinking glass & swear that GR is a dead man defense.