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View Full Version : Who do you think will be our starting safety tandem on opening day next season?


Rain Man
12-14-2004, 10:00 PM
Poll soon to rush in and nail the ball carrier.

LTownChief
12-14-2004, 10:06 PM
Jerome Woods and Greg Wesley. you've heard it here first.

Mr. Laz
12-14-2004, 10:14 PM
the same group at this year... i dont expect much change


our head coach is afraid of it ... and our GM and Owner are too cheap for it.

tk13
12-14-2004, 10:24 PM
Probably Wesley and somebody else who is not yet on the roster. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me to see 4 new starters in the secondary, it appears if Gunther had first choice he'd kill the secondary first.

go bowe
12-14-2004, 10:56 PM
Probably Wesley and somebody else who is not yet on the roster. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me to see 4 new starters in the secondary, it appears if Gunther had first choice he'd kill the secondary first.you don't think harts has a shot at being the starter next year?

we need at least one cb, one or two lb's and a de...

that's 3 or 4, can we expect to get more than 4 new starters in one offseason?

i mean, it would be nice, but quality fa's are expensive (and not a sure thing - holliday and mccleon) and we don't do so well in the draft (usually)...

and dv really doesn't like to play rookies very much...

tk13
12-14-2004, 11:10 PM
you don't think harts has a shot at being the starter next year?

we need at least one cb, one or two lb's and a de...

that's 3 or 4, can we expect to get more than 4 new starters in one offseason?

i mean, it would be nice, but quality fa's are expensive (and not a sure thing - holliday and mccleon) and we don't do so well in the draft (usually)...

and dv really doesn't like to play rookies very much...
I really have no idea what Carl's thinking, I can just see him going insane and bringing in 7 or 8 new guys. Our corners aren't great but neither are the safeties. Harts might be better than Woods but I'm not sure he's good enough. Gunther likes to bring a safety up to the line to stop the run. Ron Jaworski on ESPN broke this down a while back when Woods was starting... showed the three big long passes against New Orleans that accounted for the majority of their yardage in that game. Two of them were when Woods was the deep safety all by himself and made a poor choice in coverage. Then that third TD was the one late in the 4th when Joe Horn split the safeties. I could see them replacing most of the secondary, and really with Fujita a free agent, Barber hurt, and Mitchell not progressing fast enough who knows what we're going to do there. I think they'll work hard to replace the secondary first though, Gunther has chewed them a new one two weeks in a row at halftime.

go bowe
12-14-2004, 11:23 PM
I really have no idea what Carl's thinking, I can just see him going insane and bringing in 7 or 8 new guys. Our corners aren't great but neither are the safeties. Harts might be better than Woods but I'm not sure he's good enough. Gunther likes to bring a safety up to the line to stop the run. Ron Jaworski on ESPN broke this down a while back when Woods was starting... showed the three big long passes against New Orleans that accounted for the majority of their yardage in that game. Two of them were when Woods was the deep safety all by himself and made a poor choice in coverage. Then that third TD was the one late in the 4th when Joe Horn split the safeties. I could see them replacing most of the secondary, and really with Fujita a free agent, Barber hurt, and Mitchell not progressing fast enough who knows what we're going to do there. I think they'll work hard to replace the secondary first though, Gunther has chewed them a new one two weeks in a row at halftime.i see your point about the secondary being addressed first...

i'd just rather have upgrades at other positions before i would replace warfield and wesley...

i didn't realize fujita is a free agent, but i would think they would want to resign him if they can...

Rausch
12-14-2004, 11:29 PM
Harts and Wesley.

Hate to admit it, I love Romey...But, he isn't the same guy.

tk13
12-14-2004, 11:33 PM
I think we'll keep Warfield and Wesley... and Harts too probably although I don't know that he'll start. Everybody else though... I think it's up in the air. I don't know that we'll replace every single one of them but I don't think any of their jobs are "safe".

Rausch
12-14-2004, 11:35 PM
I think we'll keep Warfield and Wesley... and Harts too probably although I don't know that he'll start. Everybody else though... I think it's up in the air. I don't know that we'll replace every single one of them but I don't think any of their jobs are "safe".

I'd aruge that Warfield and Wesley are "safe" and that outside of that, don't be suprised.

Warfield is a solid no 2, but we need a no 1 CB...

alanm
12-14-2004, 11:46 PM
Probably a couple of converted Corner Backs. Seems to be the way the thinking goes at 1 Arrowhead Dr. :shake::deevee:

LTownChief
12-15-2004, 02:03 AM
well, if there are any Carlton Gray's or Lew Bush's out there in free agency, I expect Carl to go hog wild!

grandllama
12-15-2004, 02:06 AM
i didn't realize fujita is a free agent, but i would think they would want to resign him if they can...

Holy shiat.... Fuji is a FA? damn, damn, damn.....

Alphaman
12-15-2004, 05:35 AM
I voted Woods and Wesley. While Woods needs to be replaced, the Chiefs need to make so many changes on the defense, they may not be able to afford to cut Woods. He just signed a new deal last year that had a 2 tier SB. The first was in the $3M range, so cutting him would leave $2.5M in dead money on the cap. However, if the 2nd bonus is due this year, they may eat that cap hit rather than pay him more. They may also ask him to defer it.

Fujita is a restricted free agent so they will likely keep him. Historically, the Chiefs end up signing their restricted free agents to the 1 year tender offer.

mcan
12-15-2004, 07:39 AM
Keep our D line intact. Cut or trade Holliday

We NEED a great FA or high draft pick Middle Linebacker. I would prefer to trade our #1 pick for a probowler. Trading #1 picks is almost always a sure thing. Picking those guys is a crapshoot though...

No secret here, we need secondary help. Eric can be a great #2 corner, but isn't "shutdown." We need a smart and athletic guy who can man up. At safety, Jerome Woods hasn't played up to snuff. Trade or cut him. I should think he would be worth a 3rd rounder to somebody... Wesley is starting material still, but he needs to learn to recognize playaction better... Replacing Woods should be either Harts or a free agent. If push comes to shove, it might be fun to see what Warfield can do back there. I've always thought that he would be a better centerfielder anyway.

milkman
12-15-2004, 07:52 AM
I just don't believe that in the NFL today, with the rules tilted to the offense soooooo much, there is any such thing as a shutdown corner anymore.

I really thought that Bartee would come around under Gun, but can see that we do need a quality CB to replace him.

But I just think that you guys are going to be sorely disappointed, much like the Bronco fans with Champ Bailey, if you hope to see the mythical shutdown corner.

They just don't exist anymore.

Ultra Peanut
12-15-2004, 07:55 AM
It'll be Woods/Wesley or Harts/Wesley.

Mr. Kotter
12-15-2004, 07:56 AM
Ty Law and Adam Archeleta. :hmmm:

KcMizzou
12-15-2004, 08:06 AM
Probably a couple of converted Corner Backs. Seems to be the way the thinking goes at 1 Arrowhead Dr. :shake::deevee: I'd rather convert corners to safties than vice versa...

Chiefnj
12-15-2004, 08:10 AM
Battle and Wesley if I have to pick from existing talent on the team right now.

Frosty
12-15-2004, 08:19 AM
Harts and Wesley will start.

Pile and 3rd round pick Mitch Meeusen will back up.



arc

Pimpin' his guy early. :)

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 08:21 AM
Battle and Wesley if I have to pick from existing talent on the team right now.

Battle?

That guy's the biggest bust we've taken since Jenkins. The fuqtard couldn't cover jack in college and has been so humiliatingly bad in the pros that he wasn't even active for MNF.

Time to cut our losses and move on. You can't teach a turd to sit.

Chiefnj
12-15-2004, 08:27 AM
Battle?

That guy's the biggest bust we've taken since Jenkins. The fuqtard couldn't cover jack in college and has been so humiliatingly bad in the pros that he wasn't even active for MNF.

Time to cut our losses and move on. You can't teach a turd to sit.


Pretty funny. When he was drafted the vast, vast majority of the board loved the pick and everyone was predicting he would be a starter by mid-year. I can only recall two people who spoke out against him (patting myself on the back) and Logical. He was a safety in college and played well at the safety position.

His biggest problem is keeping his hands off of a guy coming off the LOS. Putting him at safety removes that problem and would let the team try to take advantage of all this athleticism I've read he's had.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 08:29 AM
Logical bags on EVERY pick, so throw that prognostication out the window. ;)

I thought it was a solid pick, but then I saw him 'play'. Then I went back and saw that he did the same stupid shit in college and had a reputation for being an uncoachable head case. He consistently shows no improvement, so fugg him. Cut losses and bring in the next guy. JMO

ChiefsCountry
12-15-2004, 08:53 AM
2nd round draft Donte Nicholson from Oklahoma. The kid is good.

Lzen
12-15-2004, 09:58 AM
I voted Harts and Wesley. Although I could see the Chiefs sticking with Woods. I think we will need 2 quality CBs in the offseason as well. I like Warfield but I'm not sure about nickel CB position. Hopefully, Gun will get a lot of say in the draft picks this year. If you think about it, a lot of these guys have been drafted to play Knobinson's scheme. They may not fit Gun's aggressive bump and run scheme.

Chiefnj
12-15-2004, 10:01 AM
Logical bags on EVERY pick, so throw that prognostication out the window. ;)



There was a time when Vlad was a loving and caring fan. Truly a sensitive gentleman.

WilliamTheIrish
12-15-2004, 10:05 AM
2nd round draft Donte Nicholson from Oklahoma. The kid is good.

Boy, would I LOVE to see that. Guy's a hitter.

Deberg_1990
12-15-2004, 10:07 AM
Sean Taylor and Roy Williams....just a guess...

Ultra Peanut
12-15-2004, 10:27 AM
Battle?

That guy's the biggest bust we've taken since Jenkins. The fuqtard couldn't cover jack in college and has been so humiliatingly bad in the pros that he wasn't even active for MNF.

Time to cut our losses and move on. You can't teach a turd to sit.He is the one pick I have NEVER wavered on hating, from the moment it was made.

shaneo69
12-15-2004, 10:32 AM
I would probably decline the 2nd tier bonus on Woods and Wesley's contracts and let them walk, rather than paying them another $2.5 mil plus a high salary.

I believe Harts is a UFA---this is his 4th year in the league, and I think he just signed the one year tender last offseason. I'd try to re-sign him, and I'd start him and Pile at safety.

I would move Bartee and Battle to backup safety spots and give them a one year trial at that position. And Connot would be my 5th safety.

At CB, I'd cut McCleon, so Sapp and Warfield would be the only returning CB's. I'd draft a CB pretty high, and I'd sign a starting CB in free agency, so my CB's would be: UFA and Warfield as starters, with high draftee and Sapp as backups, and high draftee would hopefully beat out Warfield as soon as possible.

Deberg_1990
12-15-2004, 10:33 AM
He is the one pick I have NEVER wavered on hating, from the moment it was made.

Yes, but he has all the "Physical tools"

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 10:34 AM
I would probably decline the 2nd tier bonus on Woods and Wesley's contracts and let them walk, rather than paying them another $2.5 mil plus a high salary.

I believe Harts is a UFA---this is his 4th year in the league, and I think he just signed the one year tender last offseason. I'd try to re-sign him, and I'd start him and Pile at safety.

I would move Bartee and Battle to backup safety spots and give them a one year trial at that position. And Connot would be my 5th safety.

At CB, I'd cut McCleon, so Sapp and Warfield would be the only returning CB's. I'd draft a CB pretty high, and I'd sign a starting CB in free agency, so my CB's would be: UFA and Warfield as starters, with high draftee and Sapp as backups, and high draftee would hopefully beat out Warfield as soon as possible.

Sounds like a plan! :thumb:

Ultra Peanut
12-15-2004, 10:37 AM
He is the one pick I have NEVER wavered on hating, from the moment it was made.Well... I guess there's Baber, too.

Rain Man
12-15-2004, 10:40 AM
I would probably decline the 2nd tier bonus on Woods and Wesley's contracts and let them walk, rather than paying them another $2.5 mil plus a high salary.

I believe Harts is a UFA---this is his 4th year in the league, and I think he just signed the one year tender last offseason. I'd try to re-sign him, and I'd start him and Pile at safety.

I would move Bartee and Battle to backup safety spots and give them a one year trial at that position. And Connot would be my 5th safety.

At CB, I'd cut McCleon, so Sapp and Warfield would be the only returning CB's. I'd draft a CB pretty high, and I'd sign a starting CB in free agency, so my CB's would be: UFA and Warfield as starters, with high draftee and Sapp as backups, and high draftee would hopefully beat out Warfield as soon as possible.

For a guy with less than 1,300 posts, you show some pretty solid thinking.

milkman
12-15-2004, 10:45 AM
I voted Harts and Wesley. Although I could see the Chiefs sticking with Woods. I think we will need 2 quality CBs in the offseason as well. I like Warfield but I'm not sure about nickel CB position. Hopefully, Gun will get a lot of say in the draft picks this year. If you think about it, a lot of these guys have been drafted to play Knobinson's scheme. They may not fit Gun's aggressive bump and run scheme.

Warfiled, Bartee, Harts, Wesley and Woods were all drafted before Spinner's days as the DC.

All of the above were drafted because of their physicality, which would be used in Gun's scheme, raher than Spinner's.
The fact that they, almost to a man, suck, is just the result of poor talent evaluation.
Dammit Carl!

Battle, as best as I can remember is the only DB drafted during Spinner's time.
McPassOn was a FA signing in that time, as well.

bringbackmarty
12-15-2004, 11:01 AM
I would probably decline the 2nd tier bonus on Woods and Wesley's contracts and let them walk, rather than paying them another $2.5 mil plus a high salary.

I believe Harts is a UFA---this is his 4th year in the league, and I think he just signed the one year tender last offseason. I'd try to re-sign him, and I'd start him and Pile at safety.

I would move Bartee and Battle to backup safety spots and give them a one year trial at that position. And Connot would be my 5th safety.

At CB, I'd cut McCleon, so Sapp and Warfield would be the only returning CB's. I'd draft a CB pretty high, and I'd sign a starting CB in free agency, so my CB's would be: UFA and Warfield as starters, with high draftee and Sapp as backups, and high draftee would hopefully beat out Warfield as soon as possible.
dude i love it, if it's possible. just leave out the bartee part. release him outright.

HolmeZz
12-15-2004, 11:51 AM
Wesley and Harts, hopefully.

Gaz
12-15-2004, 11:54 AM
I just don't believe that in the NFL today, with the rules tilted to the offense soooooo much, there is any such thing as a shutdown corner anymore.

I really thought that Bartee would come around under Gun, but can see that we do need a quality CB to replace him.

But I just think that you guys are going to be sorely disappointed, much like the Bronco fans with Champ Bailey, if you hope to see the mythical shutdown corner.

They just don't exist anymore.

Exactly.

xoxo~
Gaz
Dislikes what the NFL is doing to the game.

Chiefnj
12-15-2004, 12:00 PM
Can someone explain to me the love for Harts?

Has the safety play improved the last few weeks?

I must have missed it while I watched Voleck and Collins put up 750+ yards, 7 TDs and 0 INTs over the past two weeks.

shaneo69
12-15-2004, 01:42 PM
Can someone explain to me the love for Harts?

He makes tackles. He also forced a fumble Monday night with a big hit. Nine tackles against SD, 11 against Tennessee. Gunther wants his safeties to be run-supporters. I don't remember Woods ever having a lot of INT's, even when he was good from '97-'01. But he was always ready to lay the wood, which is what I see Harts doing now. Plus, Harts has never been in Gunther's system before, so I'm sure he's struggling to purge 3 years of G Rob's system from his memory bank.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 01:59 PM
what shane069 said :D

Harts plays FS like a SS: aggressive and makes hits. I'd like to see him improve a bit on his coverage skills (Woods' strength IMO; that is, before he went to shit)

HolmeZz
12-15-2004, 02:03 PM
Can someone explain to me the love for Harts?

He's played his heart, no pun intended, out recently. He's been a great tackler and looks like he knows what he's doing out there. He forced a fumble on Monday Night and would've had an interception had Warfield not been an idiot and ran right into him. Hopefully people in the organization have taken notice, because most Chief fans have liked what they've seen from him.

Count Zarth
12-15-2004, 02:07 PM
Harts and Wesley.

I think both have all the physical tools in the world to be good safeties.

I'm not ready to give up on Wesley quite yet. He might be dumb as a stump though. It certainly seems that way.

Woods needs to be cut or moved to backup status. I used to love him, now I loathe him.

milkman
12-15-2004, 02:15 PM
He's played his heart, no pun intended, out recently. He's been a great tackler and looks like he knows what he's doing out there. He forced a fumble on Monday Night and would've had an interception had Warfield not been an idiot and ran right into him. Hopefully people in the organization have taken notice, because most Chief fans have liked what they've seen from him.

Of course, if Harts had not been there, and Warfield had not turned his head in an attempt to make a play on the ball, you'd have bitched about that.

Warfield did everything right.
If he hadn't turned his head, as he did, and should have, he would have known that Harts was there, and not run into him.

I certainly am not going to complain when he does it right, even if it did cause Harts to drop the ball.

HolmeZz
12-15-2004, 02:25 PM
Of course, if Harts had not been there, and Warfield had not turned his head in an attempt to make a play on the ball, you'd have bitched about that.

He doesn't turn his head 99% of the time, so why would I have singled out that one play to bitch about? Fact is, communication and awareness are a big part of being a successful defensive back, and Warfield didn't show either on that play. Harts WAS in the right place at the right time, and had an easy INT had Eric not ran into him. I might be a little too hard on Warfield, but it does seem like all our corners find new ways to **** up plays all the time. :p

milkman
12-15-2004, 02:34 PM
He doesn't turn his head 99% of the time, so why would I have singled out that one play to bitch about? Fact is, communication and awareness are a big part of being a successful defensive back, and Warfield didn't show either on that play. Harts WAS in the right place at the right time, and had an easy INT had Eric not ran into him. I might be a little too hard on Warfield, but it does seem like all our corners find new ways to **** up plays all the time. :p

No, Warfield has been fairly solid, if unspectacular, for most of the season.
He has turned his head in coverage most of the time.
He's not a #1 corner, I'll grant, but he also isn't the first corner to have run into a safety and forced a dropped Int.

And I'll garandamtee ya', he won't be the last.

HolmeZz
12-15-2004, 02:42 PM
No, Warfield has been fairly solid, if unspectacular, for most of the season.
He has turned his head in coverage most of the time.
He's not a #1 corner, I'll grant, but he also isn't the first corner to have run into a safety and forced a dropped Int.

And I'll garandamtee ya', he won't be the last.

Yup, and all in the same game where he dropped an interception, got beat for a TD when he cut inside on a ball that was clearly going over his head, and if I remember correctly got called for more than one illegal contact penalty. He was very good early on in the season, but since he's been flat out bad. When you say he's been 'solid', you make it sound like his current level of play is completely fine, and I don't agree with that.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 02:48 PM
I sometimes wonder if the horrific secondary play is a passive-aggressive shot at the secondary coach Giunta by the players.

Woods, Wesley, Warfiled... those three most certianly didn't SUCK before PG took over as secondary coach. :hmmm:

I would hope they'd be men about it and come right out and say it, rather than play like shit. It wouldn't surprise me that is why they've been so bad this year though.... ever worked for a *$&%ing idiot boss that you hated? Your work suffers.

Count Zarth
12-15-2004, 02:53 PM
Woods, Wesley, Warfiled... those three most certianly didn't SUCK before PG took over as secondary coach. :hmmm:

Warfield sucked. BAD.