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View Full Version : Message to Carl: make this trade in the off-season!


bricks
12-15-2004, 09:05 AM
Priest Holmes for Zach Thomas. That's right! Priest Holmes for Zach Thomas.
Here is my reasoning behind this:

you see, this is a win-win situation for both sides. Let's first start off with the Chiefs, Kansas City's time to win is now. They are losing their best offensive player, and arguably the best RB in the NFL over the last 4 years. but, the Chiefs may have found something in Larry Johnson. He has shown he can play in this league for today and the future. The Chiefs have shown they can still move the ball, and score without Holmes in the lineup. So makes us wonder, Holmes or no Holmes, Chiefs are still a good offense. which makes me say he is as good as valued as a trade bait. The man is 31 years of age, and has his SB ring. If he hadn't won a SB ring, then I can totally understand as to why we should keep him. I'm sure many probably think, nobody is going to take Priest Holmes on their team, the guy is 31 years of age, and has sustained many injuries in the past. No way would anybody want him. Truth is, Holmes still has 2-3 years of playing left, as does Zach Thomas(31). Holmes has proved he can recover from injuries, and come back stronger the folowing year. His offensive production is outstanding and hard to ignore.


But, most teams in this league have their RB's set, and have concerns in other areas of their football team. Which makes this trade very very ideal. Miami is about the only team in the league I can think of that has the desperate NEED for a RB. No team in the NFL has the desperate NEED for a RB as much as Miami. And tell me which team has no RB, but, a great MLB on their team. The answer is Miami. And tell me, what difference does it make if Miami losses Zach Thomas? They are going to get a top 3 pick in this years draft, and probably if not very likely can land the best LB in Derrick Johnson. The Chiefs need a LB badly. they don't have enough time and patience to develop Kawika Mitchell. Mitchell has shown to be flashy at times, but, still makes too many mistakes, overruns a lot of plays and misses a lot of tackles. His knowledge and intelligence on defense is not there at times, coincedentally, he has looked lost and confused. That would NEVER be a problem with Zach Thomas. He is quite the opposite. In addition, you get a guy who can demonstrate great leadership qualities on and off the football field. you also get a guy who loves to play the game. And plays it with a lot of passion and desire. Zach Thomas IS a Gunther Cunningham type of football player.


Now, let me get down to the point. Both teams have nothing to lose. As a matter of fact, both teams are at a re-building stage. Miami has issues with their offense, we the Kansas City Chiefs have issues with our defense. so, both teams gain great players to help out their weaknesses. Vermeil and co. have 1 year left before they ride off to the sunset. so why not now? Zach Thomas can get our defense off into the right direction, as will Priest Holmes get the Miami Dolphins offense into the right direction. IF we don't do it next year, then oh well it doesnt work, and we re-build again. Zach and Priest will probably be on their last set of legs anyway which is a good thing if our teams are classic underachievers by then. so therefore there is nothing to lose. to get something, you have to give up something. The key word here is "sacrifice" it is a fact of life. And, it can relate to building a football team. hey, the Denver Broncos did it. so, why can't we? I know it hurts, to lose a great football player, a fan favorite, a coach favorite. But, it happens there is going to be a time where we all have to say goodbye to our loved ones. It's a fact of life. and, of course it is going to happen with Holmes, whether it is retiring, becoming a FA, or traded.

*Carl, this is just a suggestion. you may or you may not follow it. But, I hope you will read what I wrote. And, I hope I proved a good point.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 09:05 AM
Not only no, but F*CK NO!

put the crack pipe down and slowly back away

Deberg_1990
12-15-2004, 09:07 AM
Nobodys going to want a 32 year old running back who has missed parts of the past 2 out of 3 seasons. Sorry to burst your bubble. But it aint gonna happen, we are better off keeping him till he retires.

shakesthecat
12-15-2004, 09:10 AM
While I have no problems in trading Holmes for the right price, that price sure as hell isn't Zach Thomas.

Now maybe Thomas, and Pat Surtain, but I'm pretty sure the Phins aren't THAT stupid.

Chan93lx50
12-15-2004, 09:10 AM
Screw that, look what happend to the donkeys when they gave up their prime RB!

I would rather keep him and retire him as a chief.

As preist gets older use him like we did Marcus Allen, Priest has a nose for the goal line.

Remember he can fly!

Wile_E_Coyote
12-15-2004, 09:11 AM
Priest should retire a Chief...no Priest the last 3 years..he deserves better

bricks
12-15-2004, 09:15 AM
Nobodys going to want a 32 year old running back who has missed parts of the past 2 out of 3 seasons. Sorry to burst your bubble. But it aint gonna happen, we are better off keeping him till he retires.

then what happens with Larry Johnson? The guy is talented. He can play. Is he going to ride the bench again? Now, you have 2 good RB's. what do you do? Waste one's talents? Trade him?

Gaz
12-15-2004, 09:16 AM
Please disregard this awful idea.

Thanks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Doubts Carl needed to be told, but wants to be sure.

Deberg_1990
12-15-2004, 09:18 AM
then what happens with Larry Johnson? The guy is talented. He can play. Is he going to ride the bench again? Now, you have 2 good RB's. what do you do? Waste one's talents? Trade him?

LJ wil spell Priest once again next season. Priest will need plenty of rest next year to be able to make it through an entire season in one piece. I get the feeling that Priest will retire after next year so then LJ can start.

bricks
12-15-2004, 09:19 AM
Priest should retire a Chief...no Priest the last 3 years..he deserves better

Are you trying to say that I came across as mistreating Priest? In your eyes, that is.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 09:19 AM
then what happens with Larry Johnson? The guy is talented. He can play. Is he going to ride the bench again? Now, you have 2 good RB's. what do you do? Waste one's talents? Trade him?

Try to get San Fran's #2 for him. It isn't far from where we chose LJ in the draft (SF should have the #1 pick).

We could keep Blaylock and go after Travis Henry when he becomes available (a Priest clone IMO.... but he needs to work on the fumbles).

KCFalcon59
12-15-2004, 09:20 AM
While I have no problems in trading Holmes for the right price, that price sure as hell isn't Zach Thomas.

Now maybe Thomas, and Pat Surtain, but I'm pretty sure the Phins aren't THAT stupid.

Throw in Jason Taylor, Sam Madison and Olindo Mare too for that matter, then maybe it would be a good trade.

Braincase
12-15-2004, 09:20 AM
We need Priest to retire a Chief. I don't want to see him cast aside like we did with Kimble (who I feel deserves to be in the ring).

BigRedChief
12-15-2004, 09:20 AM
Please disregard this awful idea.

Thanks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Doubts Carl needed to be told, but wants to be sure.


At least we agree on this. :rolleyes: Zack Thomas? :shake:

Deberg_1990
12-15-2004, 09:22 AM
We need Priest to retire a Chief. I don't want to see him cast aside like we did with Kimble (who I feel deserves to be in the ring).


We didnt cast Kimble aside????? He had a career ending injury. Dude had a decent career.

Wile_E_Coyote
12-15-2004, 09:22 AM
Are you trying to say that I came across as mistreating Priest? In your eyes, that is.

I'm sure Priest would love to get Ricky's leftovers, again

shakesthecat
12-15-2004, 09:23 AM
Throw in Jason Taylor, Sam Madison and Olindo Mare too for that matter, then maybe it would be a good trade.

Sure.
But it's just about as likely to happen as Holmes for Thomas is.

WilliamTheIrish
12-15-2004, 09:23 AM
Ha ha. Zach Thomas? He will be in his 10th year as a pro next year.

His best days are looooong gone.

Great chuckle though.

bricks
12-15-2004, 09:25 AM
Please disregard this awful idea.

Thanks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Doubts Carl needed to be told, but wants to be sure.


how is it awful? They need defense badly. you gain a great leader and player in Zach Thomas, you lose Priest Holmes, but, still have a good back in johnson. Something our defense badly needs, a leader and a player. Junior High teams are better then our defense. They have to sacrifice some offense, in order to get some defense. Look at how much they invested on the offensive side of the ball? Remember, salary cap.

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 09:26 AM
One doesnt have to be thankful only on Thanksgiving...

Im thankful, today, that bricks has no say in the personnel moves of the Kansas City Chiefs.

Braincase
12-15-2004, 09:27 AM
We didnt cast Kimble aside????? He had a career ending injury. Dude had a decent career.

I thought his exit could've been handled better. I don't think I'm alone in these sentiments.

Iowanian
12-15-2004, 09:27 AM
I'm thinking a Buffalo Hooker must have sold you and your friend some bad weed.

bricks
12-15-2004, 09:29 AM
At least we agree on this. :rolleyes: Zack Thomas? :shake:

What's wrong with Zach Thomas? seriously.

bricks
12-15-2004, 09:32 AM
Throw in Jason Taylor, Sam Madison and Olindo Mare too for that matter, then maybe it would be a good trade.

KCFalcon59,



:bong:

Coogs
12-15-2004, 09:37 AM
I wouldn't mind a trade with the fish that includes Holmes. But I would rather come away with the Dolphins first round pick, which will probably be either the 1st or 2nd overall pick.

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 09:38 AM
If you want to get value out of Holmes, the trade should be Priest for Larry Centers--dude can BALL!

Chan93lx50
12-15-2004, 09:40 AM
I got a great trade, our whole team for the patriots!

bricks
12-15-2004, 09:43 AM
I got a great trade, our whole team for the patriots!

I'm ok with Priest for Brady alone. That would be a helluva of a trade!

Iowanian
12-15-2004, 09:46 AM
TRUE..........because everyone knows that QB is the Missing Piece from a Chiefs Championship.


You might let someone else have the Huka Tube for a while.

the Talking Can
12-15-2004, 09:46 AM
there are bad ideas, and then there are....

Iowanian
12-15-2004, 09:48 AM
This one, that Make bad Ideas.....look decent.

bricks
12-15-2004, 09:55 AM
This one, that Make bad Ideas.....look decent.

Zach is a great player. So is Priest. You lose some and gain some. LJ is gonna be a stud. You'll see. then in 2 years or so....we'll probably question the fact on why we didn't trade Holmes for some defense. Our defense is embarrassing, they are bleeding badly, we need first aid, MLB.

Iowanian
12-15-2004, 09:57 AM
Johnson hasn't proven jack shat about how solid or consistent his production will be.

in the 3 games I've seen him take carries, the first game he looked horrible, stumbled through the hole, was tenative........He's had a handful of carries, and has looked good in those limited oportunities.

Get back to me when Johnson has 25 carries for 150 yards and a couple of TDs vs Denver sunday.

Until he proves differently, he's a liability in pass protection(your QBs life), unproven in the passing game, and hasn't proven anything other than potential on the field.


Thomas is a decent MLB with a solid Suporting Defensive cast around him. He is definitely better than what we have, but he's not Butkis or Singletary, or Urlacker.......

Holmes has been very good in KC and has shown some injury problems in 2 of his 3 seasons. If the Chiefs could trade him for 2 first rounders....I'd be all for listening, mostly because I think he'll play 1 more season and retire. If Miami wanted to talk about Surtain and a #1....I'd be for listening..........but it isn't going to happen.

Chief fans spent almost 15 years between legit starting RBs...begging for "that 1 guy"...........We've got him at least for another year.

Radar Chief
12-15-2004, 09:58 AM
I think your reading a little too much into just what LJ has “shown” us so far.
What I’ve seen is promising, fast and powerful runner gaining confidence as he learns the offensive scheme, but that’s about it.
He doesn’t have Priests moves, patience, smarts or hands. Has LJ even caught a pass yet? I’ve seen him in for a couple of screens that were set up to GO and the ball bounced right off his stone hands. If he figures this one thing out I’ll reevaluate my stance, but until then there is no replacement for the Priest.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 09:58 AM
Zach Thomas is nothing compared to Holmes. He is past his prime.... Holmes, after missing four games this season, is still tied for most TDs!!! The guy is a scoring machine and a true leader (check him out at practice some time... talk about leading by example! He goes 100% on every drill).

ZT would be an upgrade for our D, but it wouldn't offset the loss on O.

Boyceofsummer
12-15-2004, 10:04 AM
avoid the senario equal to Beltran and the Royals. Oakland? They like are used equipment. Priest will be injured again next year.

bricks
12-15-2004, 10:05 AM
Johnson hasn't proven jack shat about how solid or consistent his production will be.

in the 3 games I've seen him take carries, the first game he looked horrible, stumbled through the hole, was tenative........He's had a handful of carries, and has looked good in those limited oportunities.

Get back to me when Johnson has 25 carries for 150 yards and a couple of TDs vs Denver sunday.

You have a point. I'm mixed on whether I should agree with you or not. I agree with you on the fact, he looked bad against Tampa. but, what can we come to expect, he was in the coaches dog house for the last couple of years, coach criticizes him in front of the media by "telling him to take his diapers off". Johnson has something to prove, he wants to play football, there's nothing wrong with that. Then some people come across and critcize him for being a cry baby and a whiner. he's definately got something to prove.

bricks
12-15-2004, 10:11 AM
I think with LJ, it is just a matter of confedence. what can he come to expect when he is in the coaches doghouse for 2 years, and gets criticized by the coach in front of the media. the guy is only human. Frankly, I'm sure if I and others were in LJ's position, we would feel the same way. now, that is all long and gone, he has shown some ability he can play. the guy's not a bad football player. Seriously.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 10:13 AM
LJ has had a couple of good games. Priest has been a league MVP-calibre player for three consecutive seasons.

I'd keep the latter and send the former packing. LIke I suggested before: San Fran's #2 in this year's draft would be acceptable (if we can get them to bite).

Iowanian
12-15-2004, 10:14 AM
Johnson has been in the system 2 years.......he should be able to perform his job.

Julius Jones, Kevin Jones, Steven Jackson are all rookies, starting or contributing major time and look every bit as good as Johnson has to date.

Parcels was so scary, Julius played 4 more downs after breaking a shoulder blade because he was afraid of his coach.

I don't wanna hear how rough Vermiel, who cries on their shoulder if the head comes off of their Ken Doll, is on the players.

the guy has less than 15 "good carries" in the NFL. I'll trust No Penn State RB until he really proves himself over several games(the rest of the season). Holmes has more TDs in 2 1/2 seasons than Jim Brown did in his career.

bricks
12-15-2004, 10:17 AM
At least I can say one thing I'm proud of with LJ, he's making Vermeil eat some crow.

John_Wayne
12-15-2004, 10:18 AM
bricks --- You're are certifiably insane!! No way we should make that deal. It's nuts!!

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 10:20 AM
He most certainly is doing that!

Hopefully it'll give CP leverage when it comes to the draft: "Say Dick, you know, MY pick is performing very well.... all of yours have pretty much sucked ass. Perhaps it's time to let me and the scouting department make the picks, mmkay? Now STFD AND STFU!!! And NO CRYING! THERE'S NO CRYING IN FOOTBALL! bitch."

:D

Iowanian
12-15-2004, 10:23 AM
I think in the 15 minutes prior the the Chiefs being on the clock with each pick........Carl should post a poll on Chiefsplanet with their options/considerations for that round, and let the Planet choice the selection.

Then..........we'd have nothing to bitch about with the draft picks. Think of the Bandwith Saved!

bricks
12-15-2004, 10:25 AM
bricks --- You're are certifiably insane!! No way we should make that deal. It's nuts!!

ROFL ROFL I was expecting somebody to say this. I knew I was gonna get my share of heat.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 10:26 AM
I think in the 15 minutes prior the the Chiefs being on the clock with each pick........Carl should post a poll on Chiefsplanet with their options/considerations for that round, and let the Planet choice the selection.

Then..........we'd have nothing to bitch about with the draft picks. Think of the Bandwith Saved!

Great idea!

Antrel Rolle.

:thumb:

KCTitus
12-15-2004, 10:27 AM
I think in the 15 minutes prior the the Chiefs being on the clock with each pick........Carl should post a poll on Chiefsplanet with their options/considerations for that round, and let the Planet choice the selection.

Then..........we'd have nothing to bitch about with the draft picks. Think of the Bandwith Saved!

What? You mean he DOESNT do that already? Damn!

bricks
12-15-2004, 10:27 AM
I think in the 15 minutes prior the the Chiefs being on the clock with each pick........Carl should post a poll on Chiefsplanet with their options/considerations for that round, and let the Planet choice the selection.

Then..........we'd have nothing to bitch about with the draft picks. Think of the Bandwith Saved!

here's my suggestion then, David Pollack Rd1, DE Georgia

Iowanian
12-15-2004, 10:43 AM
Posters who have been here the longest have veto power in iowanian's system.

While Pollack should make the poll........Iowanian leans towards CB(if not addressed in FA) and Roth(or Best DE available in 2nd)...assuming Maslowski is back at full health and MLB has been addressed in FA.

bringbackmarty
12-15-2004, 11:34 AM
the scenario does bring up another interesting point. We are going to trade somebody, or lose blaylock, or both this offseason, who will it be if not priest, and what sort of deal would be acceptable for priest? Tony? Blaylock. The one person I doubt we will trade is lj, carl doesn't like to trade his picks. Tony is still here in the middle of a phat contract, so I don't see him goin', but with wilson as some insurance, especially if he can play some this year, It could mean the end for gonzales.
It's bad pr though and I bet he avoids it by canning a lot in the defense, and saying goodbye to Barber, Woods, and Bartee. Maybe Holliday too. Leaving gunther to draft a few more wild men from the hills.

ChiefN1
12-15-2004, 12:21 PM
seems to me, that LJ will probably, and I say that loosely start next year, with the reverend Holmes playing on most third and short and goal line situations...Blaylock is headed for the auction block. He's good enough but as with everyone else on the team (save a few) he reverts back to his old ways too often. Gonzalez is here to stay...there is NO WAY that I can see that it be prudent to let him go even with Wilson coming up (Wilson is a great story, but untested live) besides if Wilson is really as good as they say...it only makes sense to keep TG offensively...to have to cover two tight ends and all the other recievers is a coaching nightmare and only gives LJ more opportunity to kill.
LJ is a good back...it really comes down to live experience in his case methinks...he does have good hands and he can run like hell with power. Penn State's running game was almost completely inside short yardage stuff when he was there, it was his ability to catch the pass that killed defenses...it will do so again with more playing time...the guy has almost no reps and his need to prove himself has definately been fueled this year.
WR is another story all together...Morton and Kennison are reliable, but aging. Hall has too much of a height disadvantage, not keeping Richard Smith active was a mistake and Chris Horn is perfect in the slot much like an Ed McCaffrey, not real fast but has good hands and is willing to sacrifice his body. Parker can go sit on a snowball as far as I am concerned. The presence of Borighter is still a factor...although my personal opinion of him is mixed.
Alot of the Defensive guys are outward bound...Holliday (huge salary and injury prone) Mitchell, Warfield, possibly Woods, McCleon and quite a few others...if things go the way I suspect they will, there will be quite an influx of new talent on Defense this off season, but more so through free agency and trades than the draft...(just my opinion for this coming year) Zach Thomas in KC...highly doubtfull and very suspiciously a smart idea. Holmes is staying as long as he can play. Petersen knows that his time to produce is limited, so he will do what is necessary to try and make it happen, but his methods have been mixed over the last few seasons so its hard to guess what will happen.

RDB
#58 in memorium...

|Zach|
12-15-2004, 12:22 PM
I don't think I could handle a player being named Zach on the Chiefs. It would make my CP browsing experience a frustrating one.

Tuckdaddy
12-15-2004, 12:51 PM
This post is pure insanity. Trading Holmes or Gonzo is carzy talk.

HolmeZz
12-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Call me stupid, but I probably would make this trade. I've always really liked Zach Thomas, and our offense in recent weeks has shown me that they can put points on the board without Holmes. The only snag would be contracts. I have no clue about how much either have left on their's and how much of a cap hit we could possibly take.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Stupid.

:p

HolmeZz
12-15-2004, 01:44 PM
Stupid.

:p

Yeah, I knew that was coming. :)

Logical
12-15-2004, 01:52 PM
I got a great trade, our whole team for the patriots!

Not quite good enough. We have to also trade Peterson for Pioli. Then we have a sweet deal.:thumb:

beavis
12-15-2004, 02:33 PM
I find it extremely odd that there are people so willing to trade away the best player in the NFL. LJ has had 2 decent games, and has yet to start one. Priest is no spring chicken, but you sure as hell don't trade him for anything at this point, much less what anyone would give for him.

Of course bricks isn't the most lucid human beings, so what can you expect.

Douche Baggins
12-15-2004, 02:42 PM
I find it extremely odd that there are people so willing to trade away the best player in the NFL.

Priest is not the best player in the NFL. He used to be.

beavis
12-15-2004, 02:54 PM
Priest is not the best player in the NFL. He used to be.
When healthy, who is better?

Douche Baggins
12-15-2004, 02:55 PM
When healthy, who is better?

Peyton Manning
Terrell Owens

HolmeZz
12-15-2004, 02:57 PM
Manning is.

And get off Owens' dick, gochiefs. :)

whoman69
12-15-2004, 03:43 PM
I have a different message for Carl. Resign now before the draft, please! You have forgotten more than you ever knew about the draft. For the last 5 years we have gotten squat.

ChiefN1
12-15-2004, 03:48 PM
Peyton Manning
Terrell Owens

apples to oranges....:rolleyes:

RDB

andoman
12-15-2004, 04:06 PM
Dec 14 - Zach Thomas, who has missed the past two games with a hamstring injury, is considered day-to-day, the Miami Herald reports.

No thanks.

penguinz
12-15-2004, 04:11 PM
Why would the dolphins trade for a RB when they are going to have a top 2 draft pick?

Fairplay
12-15-2004, 04:14 PM
While Pollack should make the poll........Iowanian leans towards CB(if not addressed in FA) and Roth(or Best DE available in 2nd)...assuming Maslowski is back at full health and MLB has been addressed in FA.



I agree with your take on this Iowainan. I would not even put Maslowski in the equation because hes too injury prone and i believe he will not preform up to his past abilities. Our defense needs an overhaul bad. It didn't get done last year as results have shown.

booger
12-15-2004, 09:02 PM
that would be a hell no.

I'd take Jason Taylor for LJ though.

brent102fire
12-15-2004, 09:17 PM
:shake:

PHOG
12-16-2004, 01:10 AM
Call me stupid, but I probably would make this trade. I've always really liked Zach Thomas, and our offense in recent weeks has shown me that they can put points on the board without Holmes.

Considering they played defensive stalwarts (not), I wouldn't put too much stock into this evaluation. :)