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View Full Version : Defensive problem lies with out secondary


Tuckdaddy
12-15-2004, 11:00 AM
because Gun runs a scheme that put the corners in one on one coverage. His blitz's are fast a furious but without solid corners and safeties that can cover tight it will never work. We are always one step to slow in killing the QB because he's able to find someone open every time. This happened a ton against Tenn, Caro, Houston, Indy, Denver. We knock the man down but the ball is gone.

Brock
12-15-2004, 11:02 AM
The sky is blue

Bob Dole
12-15-2004, 11:03 AM
Water is wet.

Cochise
12-15-2004, 11:04 AM
Down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 11:04 AM
Peter Giunta is the secondary coach. He sucked ass as DC in StLoser and is obviously failing in KC. Time for DV to quit giving that loser a job out of loyalty. (or time for DV to get the *$&% out... taking Giunta with him) :grr:

Plus, we need at least one new CB. IMO we should replace BOTH starting CBs (Rolle via draft and grab a FA), and give Woods his walking papers (start Harts).

Deberg_1990
12-15-2004, 11:07 AM
Peter Giunta is the secondary coach. He sucked ass as DC in StLoser and is obviously failing in KC.

BINGO!!!! Why we hired that lose in the first place is a mystery to me??? He ruined the 2000 season for the Rams. and hasnt improved anything since he arrived here.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 11:08 AM
He's DV's buddy. That's more important than actually knowing wtf you're doing (or being <i>competent</i>) :grr:

bricks
12-15-2004, 11:14 AM
we need to hire James Hasty as our DB coach.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 11:16 AM
we need to hire James Hasty as our DB coach.

Tried that... he flaked out.

Lzen
12-15-2004, 11:16 AM
Peter Giunta is the secondary coach. He sucked ass as DC in StLoser and is obviously failing in KC. Time for DV to quit giving that loser a job out of loyalty. (or time for DV to get the *$&% out... taking Giunta with him) :grr:

Plus, we need at least one new CB. IMO we should replace BOTH starting CBs (Rolle via draft and grab a FA), and give Woods his walking papers (start Harts).

I agree with everything except that I think Warfield can do the job at 2nd CB.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 11:18 AM
Warfield has been an enigma this year. Sometimes he makes great plays, other times he looks like he just doesn't give a shit. If he could consistently play up to his ability, then I would agree. Because he doesn't however, I wouldn't mind replacing him (and his rather large salary).

bricks
12-15-2004, 11:22 AM
Warfield has been an enigma this year. Sometimes he makes great plays, other times he looks like he just doesn't give a shit. If he could consistently play up to his ability, then I would agree. Because he doesn't however, I wouldn't mind replacing him (and his rather large salary).

Well, that shouldn't be a surprise too anyone. If I was Warfield I'd feel the same way. 8 or 9 guys around him are sh*t. when 8 or 9 guys around you are sh*t, then there it makes a lot of sense to play sh*tty at times. Why? you lose some confedence. It's all about confedence man.

Deberg_1990
12-15-2004, 11:26 AM
Warfield has been an enigma this year. Sometimes he makes great plays, other times he looks like he just doesn't give a shit. If he could consistently play up to his ability, then I would agree. Because he doesn't however, I wouldn't mind replacing him (and his rather large salary).

Hes been that way his whole career to be honest..im tired of waiting for him to be consistant. Id rather him take a walk too.

JakeT
12-15-2004, 12:05 PM
It is time to part ways with Warfield... in 7 years he's shown flashes but basically he does not adhere to good technique -- he is tries way too often to make the big play and peaks in at what the qb is doing. Overall he makes some big plays but gives up way more than he takes.

ChiefN1
12-15-2004, 12:20 PM
Peter Giunta is the secondary coach. He sucked ass as DC in StLoser and is obviously failing in KC. Time for DV to quit giving that loser a job out of loyalty. (or time for DV to get the *$&% out... taking Giunta with him) :grr:

Plus, we need at least one new CB. IMO we should replace BOTH starting CBs (Rolle via draft and grab a FA), and give Woods his walking papers (start Harts).
His blitz's are fast a furious but without solid corners and safeties that can cover tight it will never work. We are always one step to slow in killing the QB because he's able to find someone open every time.

:hmmm: These are all great theories on paper...of course EVERYTHING looks good on paper. Guys 'n' Gals... I don't dispute the porous secondary, but lets keep in mind that Gunny's scheme is extremely deep by any coach's standards, and that until this season NONE of the players have been in it...give the boys some credit for absorbing what they have in one off-season all coaching aside.
As far as Safeties go...Jerome woods (albeit no James Hasty) is an extremely good saftey, his proneness to injury however, has disabled his effectiveness, he will probably retire after this season. Harts is still young and has lots to learn yet, Wesley is outstanding as well and if he stays will play much better, with more understanding of the scheme...be patient. KC will be hard pressed to find a saftey to replace Wood's quality and character.
On corners...only two of the many backs that KC has that could play corner are veterans of any tenure. McCleon and Warfield again...both are excellent players within a new scheme. And BOTH will be better next season...although a little salary cap money on the Warfield issue is valid. Patience is a virtue here too...aside from Warfield's salary, he needs better production if he wants to stay.
If you look at the tape...our biggest problem is the linebackers, yes they are also in a new scheme and yes they are good quality players, but look closely and you'll notice that they get hung up FAR too often between coverage and pass rushing. Of course, injuries at this position is also a major player this year. EVERY single starter @ LB is/was injured this year and the shifts in position have not helped within (I'll say it again) a "new" scheme. The only linebacker who really "gets" it is Barber and he can't play all three positions at once. Roll all that up with sloppy special teams play (lack of production) a significant drop in Offensive Production and the surreal way of interpreting the "chuck rule" you have a current 5-8 season.
Make no mistake...the guys make WAY too much money (right now) for thier current numbers, and Coach Vermiel accepts WAY too much responsibility for thier ineffectiveness. But to blame the secondary Coaching, and style of play is a bit far fetched...at least if you've paid attention. So...now you are asking what is to be done about it? IMHO...most of the current players should stay, it really is the only prudent move, the more experience within the scheme the more cohesive the D will be. The LBs HAVE to be way more aggressive in thier roles...make the choices and attack, no more indecisiveness. The safeties need to actually play man to man. Zone coverage does not work well in a high volume blitz packages you gotta stay with the man covered for it to work properly. The corners will improve with experience...getting rid of Warfield for a someone with less experience is risky, but Height/Speed and Intelligence can overcome that risk. And the corners DEFINATELY need to play "up" more and refuse to get beat...that is a confidance issue mostly. Aside from that special teams needs to be a helluva lot better to give both sides of the ball the best opportunities and Offensive Production is paramount...Holmes will not play forever. Fewer Injuries would be nice too.STFU

Vermeil and Gunny recruit quality guys that can play ball, but did we really believe that a coaching change, would fix the problem in one season!? I hoped it would...but it was only a hope.

RDB

DenverChief
12-15-2004, 12:24 PM
at least we don't see anymore of Browning, Hicks or Sims dropping 10-15 yds back to cover a Marvin Harrison :banghead:

Chiefnj
12-15-2004, 12:25 PM
Welcome aboard. I disagree with everything you said, but welcome aboard nonetheless.

StcChief
12-15-2004, 12:47 PM
Good analysis. Supports Daddy T.

Corners / Safeties can't get beat one-on-one.

LBs needs to be addressed for run stopage.
Need a Domaint Player at MLB.


This are needed for Gun's scheme to work.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 01:11 PM
and that until this season NONE of the players have been in it...
:spock:
Hicks, Warfield, Bartee, Browning, Woods, Wesley - all here when Gunther was either DC or HC. They know the system - they ran it for years. They show no signs of improvement... it has been <i>13</i> games now, and they seem to actually be regressing.

Points to a lack of talent, rather than scheme. I didn't buy into the "just replace the DC and we're good to go" BS last year and I'm certainly not going to buy into the "it's a new scheme, give 'em time" BS THIS year. Gunther has come right out and said the players aren't executing the plays as coached. That means they're either really stupid, or bad. Either way, that means they need to be replaced.

ChiefN1
12-15-2004, 01:41 PM
Hicks, Warfield, Bartee, Browning, Woods, Wesley - all here when Gunther was either DC or HC. They know the system - they ran it for years. They show no signs of improvement... it has been 13 games now, and they seem to actually be regressing.
spoken like a true curmudgeon...

Yes... I was not entirely accurate in my statement, but to suggest that those six guys (with the aid of alot of new players and undeveloped rookies/aquisitions could fill the void)...is well, not entirely valid. In that list are two (2) linemen who have played exceptionally over the years. One of the safties mentioned was half of a tandem that when Hasty was playing one of the most tenacious pair in all of football. Bartee has NEVER (at least from my perspective) been consistant/reliable or even worthy and Wesley and Warfield...well we all know the story. But to suggest that when pretty much half of the rest of the defense doesn't know or hasn't played the scheme and these six guys were supposed to pick up the slack for an entire defesive unit...uh, pardon my saying so, but you're snowing yerself. I still think there is plenty of talent...just that most of it is under-developed enough to be effective it is a team sport after all. Somehow I'm thinkin this kind of season after the quality of the last two...I would be regressing more than a little. Where is the Faith man!STFU

RDB

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 01:48 PM
Exceptionally well? :spock:

Hicks has made a career off of one spectacular season. Since his 11 sack year he has been invisible.

Browning is a serviceable <i>backup</i>, but hardly an exceptional player. Sure, he has range- able to play both tackle and end, but he excels at neither. He's simply another body in the rotation.

The 5 other guys had better pick up the slack, or pack their bags. It is that simple: you perform or you are replaced. Welcome to the bigs, son.

As for "the faith", it went out the window years ago: when the _efense became an embarassment to this city and to the franchise. It has only gotten worse. Or did you miss the game this past Monday night when the putrid _efense surrendered nearly 600 yards of offense and 38 points to backups? Faith? No such thing any more, pal. They need to get their asses on the field and PROVE they deserve a job on my beloved Chiefs' squad. :grr:

You can bury your head in the sand all you want, I just hope our front office has also given up hope that "faith conquers all" (and actually DO something about improving the D)

Calcountry
12-15-2004, 01:53 PM
Water is wet.
And shit stinks.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 01:55 PM
And shit stinks.
You shouldn't talk about Eric Hicks' friends like that... you're going to give them a complex.

I think you owe them a hug.

ChiefN1
12-15-2004, 01:59 PM
at least we agree on this...
The 5 other guys had better pick up the slack, or pack their bags. It is that simple: you perform or you are replaced. Welcome to the bigs, son.

and this... They need to get their asses on the field and PROVE they deserve a job on my beloved Chiefs' squad.

but this is rather...sad, a bit fanatical, but still sad...
As for "the faith", it went out the window years ago: when the _efense became an embarassment to this city and to the franchise. It has only gotten worse. Or did you miss the game this past Monday night when the putrid _efense surrendered nearly 600 yards of offense and 38 points to backups? Faith? No such thing any more, pal.

I'm a die hard too dude...but ya gotta have love....LOL! Oh, and yeah I did miss the game, due to an untimely DEATH in the family...but they won right?

RDB

Frankie
12-15-2004, 02:04 PM
we need to hire James Hasty as our DB coach.
Or Emmit Thomas.

HC_Chief
12-15-2004, 02:08 PM
Yeah, they won... but I give the _efense next to zero credit. They are horrible. I truly am embarassed by them. The Titans have been decimated by injuries this year... we were facing backups at QB and receiver. Even the starting RB was banged up.... no matter, this _efense will hand you 600 yards and 38 points on a platter.

I'm currently working remotely for a client in Nashville... the game came up in conversation, and I told them our O would score a minimum of 35 points; but not to worry, this stinking excuse for a D will give up 38. lol, quite the prognosticator eh? I'm just thankful Fisher didn't run the clock down before trying the FG. 2+ minutes left and give the Kansas City offense the ball? Unwise. :D

AZChief
12-15-2004, 02:56 PM
ChiefNI: "I still think there is plenty of talent..."


AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...have you seen any games this year?

az