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FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 10:04 AM
Let's see--what we got?

1:30pm Steelers-Giants

5:00pm Redskins-49ers

8:30 Panthers-Falcolns

Lets rock & roll...

Skip Towne
12-18-2004, 10:28 AM
Those don't sound very good. What else ya got?

RNR
12-18-2004, 10:30 AM
Those don't sound very good. What else ya got?The Panthers-Falcons might be worth a look.

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 10:31 AM
Those don't sound very good. What else ya got?

That's it. After those 3, the cupboard is bare...

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 10:32 AM
The Panthers-Falcons might be worth a look.

Yeah, most certainly this one should be the game of the day...

RNR
12-18-2004, 10:34 AM
Yeah, most certainly this one should be the game of the day...Skip Bayless......ok stop laughing picked the Giants over the Steelers..........ok start laughing

Michael Michigan
12-18-2004, 10:34 AM
Those don't sound very good. What else ya got?

Div III Final

Linfield versus Mary Hardin-Baylor

Mary is losing 21-13 approaching halftime.

ESPN 2

Calcountry
12-18-2004, 10:38 AM
This just further dilutes the value of NFL Sunday ticket.

Skip Towne
12-18-2004, 10:44 AM
Div III Final

Linfield versus Mary Hardin-Baylor

Mary is losing 21-13 approaching halftime.

ESPN 2
Sounds like a Psicosis special. Is it 8 man football?

Michael Michigan
12-18-2004, 10:57 AM
Sounds like a Psicosis special. Is it 8 man football?

Probably.


Mary Hardin-Balyor?


WTF kind of a name is that for a college with any football team?

Bob Dole
12-18-2004, 11:37 AM
EEK!

Didn't Bonnie Berstein used to be moderately attractive?

Bob Dole
12-18-2004, 11:38 AM
Giants return the opening KO for TD.

hahaha

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 11:40 AM
That was a lovely kickoff...

beer bacon
12-18-2004, 11:48 AM
Big Ben throws an INT ROFL

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 11:55 AM
Nice play choice. 7-7.

alanm
12-18-2004, 12:01 PM
EEK!

Didn't Bonnie Berstein used to be moderately attractive?Nice run by Barber. I think Pittsburg came into this game a little overconfident.

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 12:05 PM
Eli to Shockey, TD. Giants up 14-7.

alanm
12-18-2004, 12:05 PM
14-7 Giants.

Bob Dole
12-18-2004, 01:13 PM
Who is the Steelers QB?

Bob Dole doesn't think he gets mentioned nearly enough.

Hydrae
12-18-2004, 01:17 PM
Div III Final

Linfield versus Mary Hardin-Baylor

Mary is losing 21-13 approaching halftime.

ESPN 2


Wow! My parents were attending Linfield when I was born. :)

tk13
12-18-2004, 01:17 PM
Whoever decided that second game on FOX before the season should be fired... they end up picking the only two teams in the NFC who are not eliminated from the playoffs. They could've had New Orleans play Arizona and at least it would've had playoff implications.

Bob Dole
12-18-2004, 01:21 PM
Wasn't that little display by Shockey a little unsportsmanlike?

BCD
12-18-2004, 01:21 PM
Who is the Steelers QB?

Bob Dole doesn't think he gets mentioned nearly enough.I believe his 1st name is Ben...

tk13
12-18-2004, 01:44 PM
Giants take a 24-23 lead right near the end of the 3rd quarter... this is easily Eli's best performance, he tore up the Steelers defense on that drive.

Rausch
12-18-2004, 01:50 PM
Giants take a 24-23 lead right near the end of the 3rd quarter... this is easily Eli's best performance, he tore up the Steelers defense on that drive.

Damned good game too. Da' Buss looks like he's in 96 or 97 form...

tk13
12-18-2004, 02:03 PM
Giants take the lead again.... Eli is shredding the Steelers, 30-26 Giants. Coughlin made a horrible decision to go for 2. If they kick the extra point it's 31-26 and if the Steelers score the Giants can come back with a FG to win it.... I have no clue what Coughlin was thinking, but they went for two and didn't get it.

Skip Towne
12-18-2004, 02:05 PM
And the Giants take the lead, 30-26. 9:00 left.

tk13
12-18-2004, 02:13 PM
And the Bus scores... 33-30 Steelers, 5 minutes to go.

Skip Towne
12-18-2004, 02:15 PM
Roethlisberger is a machine.

chiefs4me
12-18-2004, 02:52 PM
I feel safe when I say,,,,,that after the lackluster performance by the steelers against the lowly giants, pittsburg will not be SB Champs.

unlurking
12-18-2004, 02:57 PM
I feel safe when I say,,,,,that after the lackluster performance by the steelers against the lowly giants, pittsburg will not be SB Champs.
and,,,,,,,who,,,,,,,,,do,,,,,,,,,you,,,,,,,,,,,,think,,,,,,,,will,,,,,,,,,,be,,,,,,,,,,?

chiefs4me
12-18-2004, 03:09 PM
The way everyone is playing right now in the season, the patriots will probably pull it off. How's that?

Bob Dole
12-18-2004, 03:23 PM
Robert Royal wins the award from the lamest TD dance of the day.

Bob Dole
12-18-2004, 03:45 PM
Damn! Did anyone else see that INT return for a TD?

HolmeZz
12-18-2004, 03:50 PM
It was a forward lateral. Pretty clear.

Deberg_1990
12-18-2004, 08:04 PM
Anyone watching the Carolina/Atlanta game?? WHy ddint we trade up and draft Peppers a few years ago?? Dude is a beast. Micheal Vick is 2-9 for 17 yards passing in the 1st half. This dude wont win a thing in the NFL until he decides he wants to be a "real" QB instead of a running back mausqerading as an NFL QB.

2bikemike
12-18-2004, 08:10 PM
Anyone watching the Carolina/Atlanta game?? WHy ddint we trade up and draft Peppers a few years ago?? Dude is a beast. Micheal Vick is 2-9 for 17 yards passing in the 1st half. This dude wont win a thing in the NFL until he decides he wants to be a "real" QB instead of a running back mausqerading as an NFL QB.

I was trying to listen to the game on Sirius on the internet on my free trial but I can't find it or its unavailable.

What is the score?

Deberg_1990
12-18-2004, 08:12 PM
I was trying to listen to the game on Sirius on the internet on my free trial but I can't find it or its unavailable.

What is the score?

10-10 at the half.

2bikemike
12-18-2004, 08:14 PM
10-10 at the half.

Thanks we don't have ESPN at work. I guess I could go to NFL.com and get a feed.

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 08:16 PM
WHy ddint we trade up and draft Peppers a few years ago??

I'm kind of glad we didn't trade up high enough to get Peppers. Like Sims, his NFL career has run hot and cold. Peppers has been injured a couple times as well, IIRC. It seems to me that the Ryan Sims-Julius Peppers-NC connection was better than the sum of its parts...

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 08:57 PM
So far, the ESPN crew has stroked Vick's dong enough for a month. "Wow! Did you see that pass! It was behind the WR and uncatchable but it was the best pass I have ever seen! Vick is something else! Wow, what a player!"

Will Vick be the leading stroke-getter this weekend, or will it be Peyton Manning? Or has Vick already won? At least Manning deserves it.

tk13
12-18-2004, 09:03 PM
So far, the ESPN crew has stroked Vick's dong enough for a month. "Wow! Did you see that pass! It was behind the WR and uncatchable but it was the best pass I have ever seen! Vick is something else! Wow, what a player!"

Will Vick be the leading stroke-getter this weekend, or will it be Peyton Manning? Or has Vick already won? At least Manning deserves it.
You just wait until tomorrow night buddy, Peyton Manning vs. Ray Lewis? The hype machine will be cranking into overdrive!

Mike Patrick: Manning back to pass, finds Reggie Wayne over the middle, tackled by Ray Lewis.

Theismann: Garble Garble Garble Please don't take my lips off Peyton's behind Garble Garble Garble greatest 8 yard pass I've ever seen from an NFL quarterback Garble Garble we talked to Tom Moore before the game and he said Manning's the greatest ever and I agree Garble Garble Garble.

Maguire: Garble Garble giving man love to Ray Lewis Garble Garble that was the greatest open field tackle I've ever seen! Garble Garble nobody does it like that anymore Garble Garble.

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 09:07 PM
Garble Garble Garble

Yep. Pretty much.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 09:14 PM
You just wait until tomorrow night buddy, Peyton Manning vs. Ray Lewis? The hype machine will be cranking into overdrive!

Mike Patrick: Manning back to pass, finds Reggie Wayne over the middle, tackled by Ray Lewis.

Theismann: Garble Garble Garble Please don't take my lips off Peyton's behind Garble Garble Garble greatest 8 yard pass I've ever seen from an NFL quarterback Garble Garble we talked to Tom Moore before the game and he said Manning's the greatest ever and I agree Garble Garble Garble.

Maguire: Garble Garble giving man love to Ray Lewis Garble Garble that was the greatest open field tackle I've ever seen! Garble Garble nobody does it like that anymore Garble Garble.

ROFL ROFL

Also, I wonder how many times Theismann says "I" in a sentence. I know it's pretty common english, but jeez. I this, I that, I I I I I, everything!!! :banghead:

Miles
12-18-2004, 09:16 PM
These turnovers are killing Carolina.

Deberg_1990
12-18-2004, 09:16 PM
You just wait until tomorrow night buddy, Peyton Manning vs. Ray Lewis? The hype machine will be cranking into overdrive!



Oh brother..i cant wait....Theisman will be jizzing all over the control booth.

Miles
12-18-2004, 09:17 PM
You just wait until tomorrow night buddy, Peyton Manning vs. Ray Lewis? The hype machine will be cranking into overdrive!

Mike Patrick: Manning back to pass, finds Reggie Wayne over the middle, tackled by Ray Lewis.

Theismann: Garble Garble Garble Please don't take my lips off Peyton's behind Garble Garble Garble greatest 8 yard pass I've ever seen from an NFL quarterback Garble Garble we talked to Tom Moore before the game and he said Manning's the greatest ever and I agree Garble Garble Garble.

Maguire: Garble Garble giving man love to Ray Lewis Garble Garble that was the greatest open field tackle I've ever seen! Garble Garble nobody does it like that anymore Garble Garble.

Imagine what will happen if he breaks the TD record. They wont be able to contain themselves.

Miles
12-18-2004, 09:18 PM
Wow, Tied up after a int return by Peppers.

tk13
12-18-2004, 09:26 PM
Another fumble by Atlanta.... the Falcons are melting down...

LiL stumppy
12-18-2004, 09:26 PM
This is a good game.

tommykat
12-18-2004, 09:34 PM
This is a good game.

More than that right now.........hey gf;)

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 09:37 PM
I'm gonna laugh my ass off if the Panthers make the playoffs, play the Eagles, and beat them again. If the Eagles lose again this year in the playoffs, something just isn't right with that team. Either that, or they have the worst luck.

If I were the Eagles, I'd be praying that the Panthers don't make it.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 09:45 PM
Vick got JACKED UP!!

tommykat
12-18-2004, 09:48 PM
Vick got JACKED UP!!

As Vick never is jacked up? Go pull your pants off Cody.....heehee.....Wait, do it tommorrow! :thumb:

tommykat
12-18-2004, 09:49 PM
HOT DAM

Miles
12-18-2004, 09:50 PM
Vick just scored on a nice run on 4th and long.

This has turned out to be a damn good game.

tk13
12-18-2004, 09:50 PM
Wow, Vick runs it in, what a wild game....

tk13
12-18-2004, 09:51 PM
Man I don't know if Vick had the presence of mind to keep that left knee off the ground on the dive but that was amazing.... could not cut that any closer.

LiL stumppy
12-18-2004, 09:51 PM
Hm,there is still enough time left for Carolina though.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 09:52 PM
Vick throws a game tying TD pass!!

That couldn't be right, because Vick can't hit the broad side of a barn, so yes, I'm lying...

Vick RUNS in the game tying TD!!



I apologize for trying to make a fool out of ya'll and trying to convince everyone that he can actually throw the football accurately 40% of the time.

tommykat
12-18-2004, 09:53 PM
Great play...........BUT WTF................CALLING IT THE X-FACTOR!!!!!

Only Dante is the X-Factor!!!!!!!!!!!!

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 10:06 PM
Holy shit.

Miles
12-18-2004, 10:09 PM
That sucks. I was pullin for Carolina to make the playoffs.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 10:12 PM
Atlanta wins.

Good game, actually, although the dong sucking that the most overrated player in the NFL (Vick) gets is quite overwhelming.

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 10:13 PM
That was some highly enjoyable football.

Deberg_1990
12-18-2004, 10:15 PM
Good game, actually, although the dong sucking that the most overrated player in the NFL (Vick) gets is quite overwhelming.


Seriously...here is his stat line for the game:

11-28, 154 yds
2 TDs, 2 INTs

A QB in his 4th year in the league should be playing better at this point in his career.

tk13
12-18-2004, 10:16 PM
That sucks. I was pullin for Carolina to make the playoffs.
Don't worry, I'm not convinced that 6 seed St. Louis is going to win tomorrow @ Arizona, let alone against Philly and the Jets to end the season....

Deberg_1990
12-18-2004, 10:17 PM
Don't worry, I'm not convinced that 6 seed St. Louis is going to win tomorrow @ Arizona, let alone against Philly and the Jets to end the season....


Not with Chris Chandler as their QB

|Zach|
12-18-2004, 10:19 PM
There were two former Blue Springs Highschool football players playing against eachother in the Washington\San Fran game.

Miles
12-18-2004, 10:23 PM
Don't worry, I'm not convinced that 6 seed St. Louis is going to win tomorrow @ Arizona, let alone against Philly and the Jets to end the season....

Wow, guess i didnt realize that an 8-8 team will likely make the playoffs in the NFC. I definitly see St. Louis losing at least one of those. The only other team i guess would be Tampa if they can win out.

tk13
12-18-2004, 10:24 PM
Wow, guess i didnt realize that an 8-8 team will likely make the playoffs in the NFC. I definitly see St. Louis losing at least one of those. The only other team i guess would be Tampa if they can win out.
I'm beginning to think that 7-9 might do it...

Miles
12-18-2004, 10:30 PM
I'm beginning to think that 7-9 might do it...

I was thinking the same thing when i was lookin up the standings.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 10:33 PM
I'm beginning to think that 7-9 might do it...

That wouldn't be fair to the teams in the AFC, but there isn't a thing anyone can do about it until the owners vote for the additional wild card team.

There may be a team in the AFC that won't make the playoffs at 11-5, but there could be a team in the NFC that will make it at 7-9? Something isn't right. I know an additional wild card spot to both conferences would mean, for instance this year, that the quality of teams probably isn't that good, but it would even out if you look at the teams in the AFC. It would just be the right thing, IMO.

What do you guys think of this?

tk13
12-18-2004, 10:36 PM
Eh, I don't think I like a 7 team playoff with only 1 team getting a bye... if you were going to do that you might as well even it out and make it an even 8 team playoff. Of course in a year like this that could mean you have three teams at 8-8, 7-9 or worse in the playoffs in the NFC.

2bikemike
12-18-2004, 10:39 PM
Wow, guess i didnt realize that an 8-8 team will likely make the playoffs in the NFC. I definitly see St. Louis losing at least one of those. The only other team i guess would be Tampa if they can win out.

Clayton had a pretty good perspective of the NFC woes.

By John Clayton
ESPN.com
The last time a conference was as down as the NFC is this year was in the late 1970s.


Remember the dark ages of the NFC Central? From 1978 until the Chicago Bears emerged into a big-time team in 1984, the NFC Central was a parody of NFL parity. Only once from 1978 to 1983 did an NFC Central division winner have a 10-win season. In 1978, the Vikings and Packers tied for the division lead at 8-7-1.


This season it's true across the NFC. Except for the Eagles and Falcons, the NFC lacks consistent performers. The Vikings and Packers have shaky defenses. Someone has to win the NFC West but the Seahawks and Rams don't look like deserving playoff teams right now. Between the two of them, they've beaten only one team with a winning record.


What happened? Why it is so bad? Using the First ... And 10 format, it's time to review the carnage known as the NFC. It's hard to call it First-and-10, though. The NFC looks more like Fourth-and-26.



1. The Schedule: Here's a piece of advice to the NFL Schedule-Makers. Don't schedule so many NFC-AFC games so early in the season. Try to find a better balance of division games through the first half of the season. The NFC South, for example, had only two division games in the first 10 weeks. By Nov. 14, the Falcons were 7-1 and led their division by four games. There was no division race. The NFC North also was late starting divisional games. Green Bay and Minnesota didn't have their first meeting until Nov. 14, and that was only their second divisional game. The weaker conference should have the division games earlier and not have the dominant conference dictate races. Sure, it's hard with only four-team conferences. There are only 12 division games to spread over 17 weeks, but this year, the AFC had a much higher percentage of divisional games early. The problem created by having one conference dominating is it creates fewer winning teams in a conference such as the NFC for the stretch race. The AFC is 35-19 against the NFC, but the top 10 teams in the AFC are 28-4 against the NFC. That's right, 28-4. Only the Eagles, Vikings and Falcons have winning records against the AFC. Here's the glitch in the schedule. For the final three weeks of the season, the AFC has only seven divisional games. The NFC has 14, but many of those games are meaningless because the teams have losing records because they are 1-3 or 0-4 against the AFC.



2. The 3-4 Effect: There must be something to the 3-4 defense in the AFC because it gives the conference a certain toughness. The Steelers, Ravens, Patriots and Chargers are primarily 3-4 teams. These four teams are in the playoff hunt and have defenses ranking no lower than 14th. The 3-4 shuts down the run, and this is going down as one of the greatest running seasons in NFL history. There have been 143 individual 100-yard rushing games, and the record of those teams with the 100-yard rushers is 114-29. Considering there have been 208 games, holding a team or a top back under 100 yards creates a great chance of winning. This is not to say that the NFC should make massive switches to the 3-4. It requires a major roster commitment to bigger linebackers and different types of defensive linemen. It also creates some long-term cap problems for teams that are cap-intensive on offense. What gives the AFC the edge with the 3-4 is that it appears the depth is better on those teams to withstand the injuries that have been so prevalent this season. NFC teams seem to be more fragile on defense and lack the depth of the AFC teams.


Joey Harrington
Quarterback
Detroit Lions
Profile


2004 SEASON STATISTICS
Att Comp PaTD RuTD Int Rat
366 201 15 0 8 77.2



3. Quarterbacks: If you notice the rankings of teams in both conferences, it seems to follow the play of the quarterback. The better the quarterback the better the record. Face it, the AFC has done a better job of developing quarterbacks. The AFC has developed Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Palmer, Chad Pennington, David Carr and Byron Leftwich compared to the NFC, which still appears to be in that old mold of patching the position. The problem in the NFC is that there are more "have-nots" for quarterback than haves. Chicago doesn't know what it has in Rex Grossman. The Cowboys don't know what they have in Drew Henson. Joey Harrington is hitting some kind of wall in Detroit as is Aaron Brooks in New Orleans. The 49ers and Cardinals need new direction at quarterback. Since 1998, the NFL has been getting three to four quality quarterbacks a year out of the draft and more of them seem to be ending up in the AFC.



4. Defense: Sure, the Colts are defensively challenge. Because most of their cap is tied up with offense, Tony Dungy is forced to play Cover 2 zone and hope to bend but not break with young players on defense. The problem in the NFC is that the defenders bend and break. The Eagles and Falcons are the only current NFC playoff teams ranked in the top 13 in defense and the only teams among the top in the conference allowing less than 20 points a game. The Seahawks, Rams, Packers and Vikings rank between 22nd and 27th. They are giving up between 22.2 and 25 points a game. That makes for exciting football, but being forced to score that many points makes it tough to be consistent as a team. At least the Seahawks are forcing turnovers. They have 32 take-aways. The Rams have only 13, the Packers 14 and the Vikings 16. Coaches tell you that the give-away-take-away stats might be the most important. The Rams are minus-20, the Packers minus-11 and the Vikings minus-4. And these are playoff teams?


Michael Strahan
Defensive End
New York Giants
Profile


2004 SEASON STATISTICS
Tot Ast Solo FF Sack Int
35 28 7 1 4 0



5. Pro Bowl Turnover: Take a look at the defenders who end up making the NFC Pro Bowl team this season and you'll see how much turnover there has been on defense in the NFC. Injuries and free agent defections have caused a big disturbance among the elite defensive players in the conference. Michael Strahan, Kris Jenkins, LaVar Arrington, Julian Peterson, Brian Urlacher and others have had their seasons taken away from them because of injuries. Look at the top six vote-getters at cornerback from last year. Champ Bailey and Troy Vincent went to the AFC. Dre' Bly hasn't matched last year's Pro Bowl season in Detroit, partially because of injuries. Mike McKenzie held out and was traded to New Orleans but hasn't had any kind of season. Terence Newman has had an off season in Dallas. Of the 17 defensive players selected to the NFC Pro Bowl team last season, maybe as few as four will be voted back in this season.



6. Coaching Turnover: One of the reasons for the AFC success is that there has been more stability in coaching. This reality offers hope to the NFC because maybe this will settle down and coaches will fit players to their system. Arizona, Atlanta, Chicago, the New York Giants and Washington have coaches in their first season. Seniority in the NFC is almost nonexistent. Mike Holmgren and Andy Reid are in their sixth season. That's the top seniority. Constant turnover of head coaches has hurt the NFC. Look at what John Fox is doing in Carolina, and it shows how continuity works. He's in his third season with the Panthers and has been to a Super Bowl. His style is to play good defense, run the ball and get decent play out of his quarterback, Jake Delhomme, down the stretch of games. Injuries killed his team early. He lost five players for the season in the pre-season and nine more during the coarse of the regular season. His system hasn't changed, so he kept plugging players into his format and the team has rebounded from a 1-7 start with five consecutive wins. Rosters turnover every three or four years because of free agency, but if the coaching systems are in place, there can be stability of performance. The NFC hasn't had that coaching stability because of constant turnover.



7. Overrated Conference: The NFC has eight head coaches who are in their second or third stints. The list is impressive: Steve Mariucci, Bill Parcells, Tom Coughlin, Joe Gibbs, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren, Dennis Green and Dennis Erickson. Technically, the NFC has been down a couple of years. These things go in cycles and this is a bad cycle for the NFC. It's easier to go from worst to first in the NFC than it is in the AFC and every coach knows that. Because the conference is so down, it can cause some bad personnel judgments. Parcells did a masterful job coaching up Jerry Jones' team last year and went to the playoffs at 10-6. That success gave the Cowboys a false sense of their talent. Last year's team was 2-4 against winning teams, 8-2 against the losers. Parcells might have been worth a touchdown a game last year. This year, the team isn't as talented because last year's success lulled them into complacency. Dennis Green looked over the weak NFC and thought he'd win 10 games with the talent he had. Another misjudgment. The Cardinals are 4-9. They weren't as good as he thought.


Mark Brunell
Quarterback
Washington Redskins
Profile


2004 SEASON STATISTICS
Att Comp PaTD RuTD Int Rat
237 118 7 0 6 63.9



8. Bad Snaps: The NFC made bad decisions at quarterback. Parcells and Gibbs thought an experienced hand at quarterback would serve their teams better. They didn't. Though Vinny Testaverde proved he's still a good starting quarterback, the team is 5-8 and going nowhere. Henson didn't develop at all and may follow the Chad Hutchinson path to NFL Europe. Gibbs pinned his hopes on Mark Brunell and the move failed miserably. The Redskins average only 14 points a game on offense and wasted a great season of defense. Tom Coughlin benched Kurt Warner after a sack filled 5-4 start and threw Eli Manning into the starting job against five of the toughest defenses in the league. Now, players are grumbling about the offensive scheme, and Manning is getting embarrassed on a weekly basis.



9. Money and Change Can't Buy Championships: According to a September analysis by the NFLPA, the Redskins spent about $129 million in payroll but their record is 4-9. The NFC was the most active this offense in the trade and free agent market, and many of the deals didn't work out. Churning rosters with new personnel takes time. The Redskins brought in 24 new players, the Bucs and Giants 23 and the Cardinals 22. If the big moves wash out, so does the team.



10. Age: Sometimes, going with older teams can hurt. The Bucs, Panthers, Redskins and Saints have four of the five oldest teams in the NFL. Older players are considered to be leaders and have proven track records. Often, though, they can break down with injuries. Whether it was injury or lack of leadership, none of the four teams had the success they had hoped for. The formula for success in 2004 is still building through the draft, re-signing core players and being smart in free agency. Just having experience doesn't guarantee success.



John Clayton is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

Deberg_1990
12-18-2004, 10:39 PM
They need to go back to the old 3 team divisions. 4 divisions in each conference is too many. Too many watered down divisions

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2004, 10:41 PM
Eh, I don't think I like a 7 team playoff with only 1 team getting a bye... if you were going to do that you might as well even it out and make it an even 8 team playoff. Of course in a year like this that could mean you have three teams at 8-8, 7-9 or worse in the playoffs in the NFC.

I'd be fine with it, and I'm surprised the majority of the owners aren't ok with it. Heck, they love money, and it would mean more money. It would also mean more money for the league, as well. I don't see why it would hurt. I mean, this day in age with free agency, you're going to consistently have these 8-8, 7-9 teams so you might as well include them in the mix. LOL

HolmeZz
12-18-2004, 10:44 PM
I felt bad for Carolina. They played their asses off. I hope they still find a way to make the play0ffs.

tk13
12-18-2004, 10:53 PM
Here you go... top two spots make the playoffs, you all figure it out:

Minnesota 7-6: @ DET, GB, @ WAS

St. Louis 6-7: @ ARI, PHI, NYJ

Carolina 6-8: @ TB, NO

Dallas 5-8: @ PHI, WAS, @ NYG

Chicago 5-8: HOU, @ DET, GB

Detroit 5-8: MIN, CHI, @ TEN

Tampa Bay 5-8: NO, CAR, @ ARI

New Orleans 5-8: @ TB, ATL, @ CAR

NY Giants 5-9: @ CIN, DAL

Washington 5-9: @ DAL, MIN

Arizona 4-9: STL, @ SEA, TB

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 10:58 PM
Here you go... top two spots make the playoffs, you all figure it out:

Minnesota 7-6: DET, @ GB, WAS

St. Louis 6-7: @ ARI, PHI, NYJ

Carolina 6-8: @ TB, NO

Dallas 5-8: @ PHI, WAS, @ NYG

Chicago 5-8: HOU, @ DET, GB

Detroit 5-8: MIN, CHI, @ TEN

Tampa Bay 5-8: NO, CAR, @ ARI

New Orleans 5-8: @ TB, ATL, @ CAR

NY Giants 5-9: @ CIN, DAL

Washington 5-9: @ DAL, MIN

Arizona 4-9: STL, @ SEA, TB


I'd say the Vikes and Panthers make the playoffs.

tk13
12-18-2004, 11:05 PM
I'd say the Vikes and Panthers make the playoffs.
I had the Vikings home/road inverted... I think they'll get in but with how they collapse almost every year I could see them falling apart too... two road games plus having to beat GB at home. I really like Tampa's setup, I think they can run that schedule.

FloridaChief
12-18-2004, 11:09 PM
I really like Tampa's setup, I think they can run that schedule.

I don't see them beating Carolina. The Bucs biggest problem is one we should all be familiar with: Their defense gives up too many big plays this year...

MGRS13
12-18-2004, 11:35 PM
Didn't see a but a few plays of the Steelers/Giants game and the Falcons/Panthers game but I am wasted....so I got that going for me.