PDA

View Full Version : Torn - LJ thread


HC_Chief
12-20-2004, 08:51 AM
Last week, after the MNF game, LJ made some self-centered comments about <i>his</i> game and how CP was the <i>one</i> person to see <i>his</i> talent. He gave no credit to his blockers; he gave no credit to his coaches.

During the week, in an interview on 810, he basically stated he cares more about personal accomplishments (HoF) than team accomplishments (SB victory).

Combine that with a bad attitude last year and perceived whining/bad attitude this year (hence DV's "diapers" comment), and I was ready to ship his ass right out of town.

Now he gets PT... and looks good. His trade value rises; "we could get a pretty good pick for this guy", I think (targeting San Fran's second-round pick this year). But now I am torn... that's THREE games that LJ has looked really good.

He ran all over that donkey defense; showed power and speed, plus he picked up blitzes and made receptions. Cut to him on the sidelines after he scores, and he's interacting with his teammates in a positive manner. He doesn't strut and act like a fool after scoring, choosing instead to simply hand the ball to the ref. He doesn't react stupidly to a dirty, cheap shot from John Lynch. He shows true professionalism when on the field.... and AFTER the game, thanks his blockers. Now I'm not so sure I'd deal him away, but I'm still not 100% convinced. Does he <i>want</i> to be here? I'm still not sure.

Chiefnj
12-20-2004, 08:56 AM
What's wrong with him pointing out CP was the one guy who stood up for him? DV and AS sent Johsnon back to the bench last week after one of his long TD runs. He has every right to be pissed at those guys. All he's ever wanted to do was play. Give Gunther 11 defensive players with that attitude and the Chiefs might make the playoffs.

morphius
12-20-2004, 08:57 AM
The thing is, I don't remember him talking bad about his team mates, even when given a chance to dog on Blaylock he wouldn't do it. He is too much of a "me" guy, and has some issues with coaches, but I think he will get along fine with the other players. He said he had been talking to a lot more the OL and everyone else recently, so he is getting the idea. So while I wouldn't really want to hang out with him, but as long as he is playing well and not being too stupid I don't care. Did we insult Priest when he wanted to break 2000 yards or set the rushing TD record? Why should we bust LJ's nuts for wanting to put up HoF numbers, as he said, it takes the rest of the team to help when a SB and all you can do is play your best.

Chan93lx50
12-20-2004, 09:03 AM
Yeah his attitude could use some adjustment, but the boy can play ball!

But what do you expect his attitude to be like when he has been dogged on ever since he came to arrowhead.

He seems to get love from the players and gives it back after he scores, so as long as the players can play with him, I can live watching him as a Chief

Hoover
12-20-2004, 09:03 AM
I'm torn too.

I don't care what he says to the media. I think he's a good kid and wants to play football aand be a star in this league. Plus he has the talent to do so.

I'm torn because as a fan, I feel that this team owes Priest Holmes a lot. He is the reason this team is a contender (well not this year). But I think the direction the team takes needs to be a football/business decision not a fan decision.

I love Priest Holmes, but if I was picking a back for this team to build around it would be LJ because he is young, costs less than Holmes, and has produced in each game that he has played in.

So Carl need to go to Priest and say the following. "Priest, you are the best back in the NFL and I want you to get a Super Bowl Ring before you retire (I know he has one but so does Elvis Grabac). You know we need to fix the D, and I need Cap space to do it. So either you need to help us free up some cap space or we are going to have to trade you for players/draft picks."

Its sucks and hurts but Priest has trade value.

Wile_E_Coyote
12-20-2004, 09:04 AM
give him a vote for Sunday Stud, http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/features/story?page=04sundaystudweek15&POLL183=20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Lzen
12-20-2004, 09:12 AM
I'm torn too.

I don't care what he says to the media. I think he's a good kid and wants to play football aand be a star in this league. Plus he has the talent to do so.

I'm torn because as a fan, I feel that this team owes Priest Holmes a lot. He is the reason this team is a contender (well not this year). But I think the direction the team takes needs to be a football/business decision not a fan decision.

I love Priest Holmes, but if I was picking a back for this team to build around it would be LJ because he is young, costs less than Holmes, and has produced in each game that he has played in.

So Carl need to go to Priest and say the following. "Priest, you are the best back in the NFL and I want you to get a Super Bowl Ring before you retire (I know he has one but so does Elvis Grabac). You know we need to fix the D, and I need Cap space to do it. So either you need to help us free up some cap space or we are going to have to trade you for players/draft picks."

Its sucks and hurts but Priest has trade value.


This makes a lot of sense. Although I cringe at the thought of seeing Priest go somewhere else. I really have gained a lot of respect for Holmes over the 4 years that he's been here. It would be a shame to see him playing for another team. But trying to win a Superbowl is much more important than any player.

htismaqe
12-20-2004, 10:01 AM
I'm torn too.

I don't care what he says to the media. I think he's a good kid and wants to play football aand be a star in this league. Plus he has the talent to do so.

I'm torn because as a fan, I feel that this team owes Priest Holmes a lot. He is the reason this team is a contender (well not this year). But I think the direction the team takes needs to be a football/business decision not a fan decision.

I love Priest Holmes, but if I was picking a back for this team to build around it would be LJ because he is young, costs less than Holmes, and has produced in each game that he has played in.

So Carl need to go to Priest and say the following. "Priest, you are the best back in the NFL and I want you to get a Super Bowl Ring before you retire (I know he has one but so does Elvis Grabac). You know we need to fix the D, and I need Cap space to do it. So either you need to help us free up some cap space or we are going to have to trade you for players/draft picks."

Its sucks and hurts but Priest has trade value.

That's essentially the way I feel.

No, Holmes isn't worth what alot of people think he is (ie. 2 1st-round picks) but I do think he's worth more in a trade than LJ, and LJ is worth more to us now (after seeing him play) than what we could probably get in a trade too.

It all boils down to this:

What puts us in the best postion to win a Super Bowl? Do that.

morphius
12-20-2004, 10:46 AM
I think we need both LJ and Priest going forward, our offense revolves around the run and is 900x's more effective when play action works. Not many RB's make it through a whole season any more, heck, we are down 2 right now. Just about every one of the big name backs has missed a game or more this year. Now we can try to reorg Priest Holmes to give him some more money upfront, but Priest is the man on the goal line, I'm not sure that LJ is yet.

Plus LJ says he has no problem playing behind Priest, it is just being number 3 and not getting on the field at all that was pissing him off.

Chiefnj
12-20-2004, 11:01 AM
You can't trade LJ because: (a) he's Carls pick and Carl ain't gonna trade him, (b) he's under contract for a few more years, and since he's Carl's pick the kid might resign with the Chiefs once his original contract is over especially if DV and AS are long gone, (c) he runs well and is faster than Holmes, and (d) he doesn't have a history of injuries.

You can't trade PH because: (a) the offense is built around him, (b) you just gave him a huge contract extension, (c) I don't think a HB over the age of 30 coming off of two major inuries in the past 3 years has nearly as much value as people think, (d) he's DV and AS's guy, (e) it's good to have two quality backs, (f) he is kind of flakey and a team might not want to bear the risk of having him retire after the trade is made, and (g) he's the best all around HB on the team.

Chief Henry
12-20-2004, 11:16 AM
I want us to keep both Priest and LJ too. We could use both in several offensive packages.
Not to mention PH injuries mounting up.

Gaz
12-20-2004, 11:20 AM
Keep Holmes and Johnson. Wish Blaylock the best of luck.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not torn at all on this issue.

Logical
12-20-2004, 11:41 AM
...

So Carl need to go to Priest and say the following. "Priest, you are the best back in the NFL and I want you to get a Super Bowl Ring before you retire (I know he has one but so does Elvis Grabac). You know we need to fix the D, and I need Cap space to do it. So either you need to help us free up some cap space or we are going to have to trade you for players/draft picks."

Its sucks and hurts but Priest has trade value.
At a soon to be 32 I don't think Priest has trade value and even if he did you would have to eat the remaining portion of his entire signing bonus to make the trade. That is several million dollars in wasted cap space. Not a realistic hope IMO. Priest's production also warrants all the pay he gets so I cannot see why he would want to give up any money.

Chiefnj
12-20-2004, 11:44 AM
By trading Priest you would gain a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick, in exchange for a huge cap hit that would hurt chances of signing a defensive free agent and you would no longer have two very good HB's on the team.

I really don't see any upside in trying to trade him.

Hoover
12-20-2004, 11:48 AM
At a soon to be 32 I don't think Priest has trade value and even if he did you would have to eat the remaining portion of his entire signing bonus to make the trade. That is several million dollars in wasted cap space. Not a realistic hope IMO. Priest's production also warrants all the pay he gets so I cannot see why he would want to give up any money.
We are talking NFL trades not Baseball trades.

NFL contracts are not gaurenteed and teams can be creative.

I think the best thing we can do redo his deal and use both he and LJ. My point is if we can trade him and have it help the team we should do it, if we can't we need to have him help us free up some cap space to sign free agents.

Bottom line is LJ is the future of this team.

Deberg_1990
12-20-2004, 11:49 AM
I have not heard anyone mention this, but if we have to trade anyone away, the guy we should be looking at is Tony Gonzalez. IMO he would hold the most trade value becasue he is stil in his prime and puts up great numbers. Im not sure what his contract status is though?? This does not however mean that I dont think Tony G is no longer any good, its just that if we have to sacrifice somewhere, he would be the best target.

NY CHIEF
12-20-2004, 11:51 AM
Pretty cut and dry, hang on to priest and lj goodbye derrick :thumb:

Hoover
12-20-2004, 11:51 AM
I have not heard anyone mention this, but if we have to trade anyone away, the guy we should be looking at is Tony Gonzalez. IMO he would hold the most trade value becasue he is stil in his prime and puts up great numbers. Im not sure what his contract status is though?? This does not however mean that I dont think Tony G is no longer any good, its just that if we have to sacrifice somewhere, he would be the best target.
The problem with trading TG is if we move him we would have to get better at WR. Do we have TE's on the roster to replace him and do a good job? Yes, but Tony G is a playmaker, the only pass catching playmaker on the team.

nmt1
12-20-2004, 11:55 AM
Last week, after the MNF game, LJ made some self-centered comments about <i>his</i> game and how CP was the <i>one</i> person to see <i>his</i> talent. He gave no credit to his blockers; he gave no credit to his coaches.

During the week, in an interview on 810, he basically stated he cares more about personal accomplishments (HoF) than team accomplishments (SB victory).

Combine that with a bad attitude last year and perceived whining/bad attitude this year (hence DV's "diapers" comment), and I was ready to ship his ass right out of town.

Now he gets PT... and looks good. His trade value rises; "we could get a pretty good pick for this guy", I think (targeting San Fran's second-round pick this year). But now I am torn... that's THREE games that LJ has looked really good.

He ran all over that donkey defense; showed power and speed, plus he picked up blitzes and made receptions. Cut to him on the sidelines after he scores, and he's interacting with his teammates in a positive manner. He doesn't strut and act like a fool after scoring, choosing instead to simply hand the ball to the ref. He doesn't react stupidly to a dirty, cheap shot from John Lynch. He shows true professionalism when on the field.... and AFTER the game, thanks his blockers. Now I'm not so sure I'd deal him away, but I'm still not 100% convinced. Does he <i>want</i> to be here? I'm still not sure.


Maybe all the stuff about Larry Johnson's problems with other players and the coaching staff has been blown way out of proportion by media hacks and fans that are trying to read too much into his post game interview comments.

Deberg_1990
12-20-2004, 11:55 AM
The problem with trading TG is if we move him we would have to get better at WR. Do we have TE's on the roster to replace him and do a good job? Yes, but Tony G is a playmaker, the only pass catching playmaker on the team.

My thoughts exactly. I should have mentioned this in my post above. We would be almost forced to draft a WR in the 1st round.

Logical
12-20-2004, 11:56 AM
We are talking NFL trades not Baseball trades.

NFL contracts are not gaurenteed and teams can be creative.

I think the best thing we can do redo his deal and use both he and LJ. My point is if we can trade him and have it help the team we should do it, if we can't we need to have him help us free up some cap space to sign free agents.

Bottom line is LJ is the future of this team.

Salary yes, signing bonus no. NFL rules are that the team that paid the signing bonus must eat the entire bonus to trade a player. No ifs and or buts. No creativity is allowed.

Gaz
12-20-2004, 11:58 AM
Maybe all the stuff about Larry Johnson's problems with other players and the coaching staff has been blown way out of proportion by media hacks and fans that are trying to read too much into his post game interview comments.

Ya think?

xoxo~
Gaz
Supposes folks have to talk about something.

nmt1
12-20-2004, 11:58 AM
I fail to understand the logic in trading away any of our players if we don't have to.

Logical
12-20-2004, 12:03 PM
I fail to understand the logic in trading away any of our players if we don't have to.

I agree we wasted 6 million in unused cap money under this years cap. I am not sure the cap should even be an issue we are talking about this offseason.

Hoover
12-20-2004, 12:04 PM
I really think the Chiefs just need to get as much cap room as possible and sign some smart Defensive Free agents.

Then next year you run the ball 30 time a game, Holmes gets about 20 and LJ gets 10.

On Defense I know we all feel like we need to sign 11 Free Agents and draft all defense, but I think we have to look at it this way.

Free Agents:

We should try to get four young Frfee agents.

Defense.

One CB: I like Fred Smoot, he has some attitude that I think is needed from a DB.

One MLB: Hartwell. I know he plays in a 3-4, but he's a player and hase fire plus he's young. Plus its not like he will get Ray Lewis coin.

We don't know if Mitchell can be the MLB, so we at least need to find a vet (Like we did with Patton) to come in and start, if hew gets out played by Mittchell thats fine. There are always MLB's cut or on the market.

DE: I don't know who is out there, but I think we should sign a FA and show the door to Hicks and Holliday.

WR: Jerry Porter. I know this is not a Defensive player. But I don't want to take a WR in the draft, so I like getting a WR in FA. Porter is young and could be a #1 type WR plus it hurts our division.

In the draft I think we go after CB, LBs and DE.

jynni
12-20-2004, 12:06 PM
Okay - so Blaylock is a UFA - he will probably sign elsewhere.

Say we do trade Holmes.

Johnson gets hurt = we're fvcked.

We keep Holmes & Johnson.

HC_Chief
12-20-2004, 12:08 PM
Hmm, some convincing arguments on both sides.

Think I've made up my mind: keep LJ and Holmes :thumb:
I'd start giving LJ the bulk of the work between the 20s, then Priest in the red zone (like Pittsburgh does w/ Staley and Bettis).

LJ has shown the ability to break off long TD runs, so he may end up scoring as much as Priest :D

Chiefnj
12-20-2004, 12:14 PM
I have not heard anyone mention this, but if we have to trade anyone away, the guy we should be looking at is Tony Gonzalez. IMO he would hold the most trade value becasue he is stil in his prime and puts up great numbers. Im not sure what his contract status is though?? This does not however mean that I dont think Tony G is no longer any good, its just that if we have to sacrifice somewhere, he would be the best target.

If you are serious, then this is a dumb idea. Why would you trade away the teams best receiver, who happens to be the best TE in the game - a sure fire HOF candidate? At least with Priest, it looks like the team has a running back who can carry the load and he's older and has been injured quite often.

ChiefsFanatik88
12-20-2004, 12:18 PM
I think we need both LJ and Priest going forward, our offense revolves around the run and is 900x's more effective when play action works. Not many RB's make it through a whole season any more, heck, we are down 2 right now. Just about every one of the big name backs has missed a game or more this year. Now we can try to reorg Priest Holmes to give him some more money upfront, but Priest is the man on the goal line, I'm not sure that LJ is yet.

Plus LJ says he has no problem playing behind Priest, it is just being number 3 and not getting on the field at all that was pissing him off.

All Kc has to do is let go of Blaylock and Start LJ next season. Priest can redo his contract to help the Chiefs.Then If LJ falters, Priest can take the reins. LJ should start the rest of the season and next year.

cadmonkey
12-20-2004, 01:08 PM
Man, you guys have a stud RB in that LJ. Congrats. Just don't jump all over him the first time he f*cks up. You will be happy with him once he gets some good experience under his belt.

elvomito
12-20-2004, 01:42 PM
thanks cad.

...lj will be backup to priest next year. deal with it.
he still hasn't played in any major games with something on the line and priest has a ring. lj looks really good right now. give him time to grow.

morphius
12-20-2004, 01:45 PM
All Kc has to do is let go of Blaylock and Start LJ next season. Priest can redo his contract to help the Chiefs.Then If LJ falters, Priest can take the reins. LJ should start the rest of the season and next year.
No way do you bench Priest, just no way. The guy was leading the entire league in rushing and had more TD's then some teams in the league had when he was injured. Priest is your starter, LJ comes into give him some rest and maybe plays a series here or there.

HC - Priest isn't as good if he doesn't get the carries, you have to feed the ball and not just expect him to come in cold on the goal line. He gets better later in the game for a reason.