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Coogs
12-22-2004, 02:05 PM
Roaf, Water, Shieds, Richardson, and Gonzo are starters.

Green, Holmes, and Hall round out squad.

Coogs
12-22-2004, 02:06 PM
Heard it on 810 sports update.

Dr. Facebook Fever
12-22-2004, 02:06 PM
Scanlon was robbed.

Cochise
12-22-2004, 02:07 PM
Wow, 3 of the offensive line positions :thumb:

Cochise
12-22-2004, 02:08 PM
Scanlon was robbed.

They don't give enough weight to special teams penalties, IMO

Hydrae
12-22-2004, 02:08 PM
With Priest on IR I wonder if he will be paying for the team to go again this year. :hmmm:

tk13
12-22-2004, 02:09 PM
Awesome, glad to hear Green made it... and 60% of the starting O-line will be Chiefs, that's amazing. Heck, 5 of the 11 starters are Chiefs. That's awesome...

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 02:09 PM
This is Waters first PB isn't it? :D

Congrats Brian!! And congrats to the rest of the PB representatives.... all deserving.

kc1977
12-22-2004, 02:09 PM
Roaf, Water, Shieds, Richardson, and Gonzo are starters.

Green, Holmes, and Hall round out squad.


Not according to NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/afc_roster

Only Roaf, Water, shields, Gonzo, and T-Rich.

Thig Lyfe
12-22-2004, 02:09 PM
WTF? No Green? And even then, Peyton is a reserve? No Hall? Damn!

Coogs
12-22-2004, 02:10 PM
Not according to NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/afc_roster

Only Roaf, Water, shields, Gonzo, and T-Rich.

They said alternates for Green, Holmes, and Hall. I thought that would mean they made the team.

Lzen
12-22-2004, 02:11 PM
Not according to NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/afc_roster

Only Roaf, Water, shields, Gonzo, and T-Rich.

Yeah, where the heck is 810 getting their info?

Hoover
12-22-2004, 02:12 PM
you are wron there are only 5 there is no Green, Holmes or Hall

kc1977
12-22-2004, 02:12 PM
WTF? No Green? And even then, Peyton is a reserve? No Hall? Damn!

Not positive, but I think they may have the starters and reserves columns backwards. I don't think both Brady and Brees are starting.

Thig Lyfe
12-22-2004, 02:13 PM
Not positive, but I think they may have the starters and reserves columns backwards. I don't think both Brady and Brees are starting.

That seems to make sense...

TRR
12-22-2004, 02:14 PM
Right, only 5 are going.

Brees, Manning, and Brady are the Pro Bowl QB's for the AFC.

Antonio Gates is starting over Tony Gonzalez and we don't have another starter other than Tony Richardson (possibly Shields, but I don't think so.)

Hoover
12-22-2004, 02:15 PM
Shields is a starter

cmh6476
12-22-2004, 02:16 PM
you are wron there are only 5 there is no Green, Holmes or Hall
i think he said they were alternates...

tk13
12-22-2004, 02:16 PM
Man that's crap that Dante didn't make it, teams don't gameplan for any other returner or kick away from a player like they do him...

kc1977
12-22-2004, 02:16 PM
Right, only 5 are going.

Brees, Manning, and Brady are the Pro Bowl QB's for the AFC.

Antonio Gates is starting over Tony Gonzalez and we don't have another starter other than Tony Richardson (possibly Shields, but I don't think so.)

If NFL.com does have the starters and reserves backwards, like apparently they do for QB, then I would guess that Gonzo is starting.

TRR
12-22-2004, 02:16 PM
AFC PRO BOWL ROSTER
OFFENSE (21) PLAYERS
Wide receivers (4)
Marvin Harrison, IND
Andre Johnson, HOU
Chad Johnson, CIN
Hines Ward, PIT
Tackles (3)
Willie Anderson, CIN
Jonathan Ogden, BAL
Willie Roaf, KC
Guards (3)
Alan Faneca, PIT
Will Shields, KC
Brian Waters, KC
Centers (2)
Jeff Hartings, PIT
Kevin Mawae, NYJ
Tight ends (2)
Antonio Gates, SD
Tony Gonzalez, KC
Quarterbacks (3)
Tom Brady, NE
Drew Brees, SD
Peyton Manning, IND
Running backs (3)
Edgerrin James, IND
Curtis Martin, NYJ
LaDainian Tomlinson, SD
Fullback (1)
Tony Richardson, KC
DEFENSE (17) PLAYERS
Defensive ends (3) J
ohn Abraham, NYJ
Dwight Freeney, IND
Jason Taylor, MIA
Interior linemen (3)
Sam Adams, BUF
Richard Seymour, NE
Marcus Stroud, JAC
Outside linebackers (3)
Joey Porter, PIT
* Takeo Spikes, BUF
Terrell Suggs, BAL
Inside linebackers (2)
James Farrior, PIT
Ray Lewis, BAL
Cornerbacks (3)
Champ Bailey, BAL
Tory James, CIN
Chris McAlister, BAL
Strong safeties (2)
Troy Polamalu, PIT
Ed Reed, BAL
Free safety (1)
John Lynch, DEN
SPECIALISTS (4)
PLAYERS
Punter Shane Lechler, OAK
Placekicker Adam Vinatieri, NE
Kick return specialist Terrence McGee, BUF
Special teamer Larry Izzo, NE

Hoover
12-22-2004, 02:17 PM
i think he said they were alternates...
they are not listed

Pants
12-22-2004, 02:17 PM
nfl.com just updated the roster page. I think they are fixing it.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 02:17 PM
How could Drew Bennett not make the PB?!

And I FRIGGING CALLED IT: BRADY made the PB over Green. What a frigging sham... a 4000 yd, ~66% comp, ~100 qb rating passer getting snubbed.

Lzen
12-22-2004, 02:17 PM
They just changed the NFL.com website. Now it doesn't show starters and reserves. Just lumps everyone together by position. Funny thing, Champ Bailey is listed as Baltimore. ROFL Only 2 Donkeys made it. Hmmmm, no Jake Plummer? What a shame. :D

kc1977
12-22-2004, 02:17 PM
If NFL.com does have the starters and reserves backwards, like apparently they do for QB, then I would guess that Gonzo is starting.

Of course, who really knows. According to ESPN.com

The starters for the annual all-star game, to be played Feb. 13 in Honolulu, will be announced during one of the halftimes of the wild card games to air on ABC on Jan. 8.

So, maybe NFL.com jumped the gun or they don't know what the heck is going on.

KCTitus
12-22-2004, 02:18 PM
Omar Easy snubbed for the second straight year...

Coogs
12-22-2004, 02:18 PM
you are wron there are only 5 there is no Green, Holmes or Hall

Don't shoot me. I was just relaying the radio. They named the first 5, and said the last three were alternates. I figured alternates were on the team.

Hoover
12-22-2004, 02:19 PM
Don't shoot me. I was just relaying the radio. They named the first 5, and said the last three were alternates. I figured alternates were on the team.
I didn't shoot you, I just said that had Holmes, Green, and Hall wrong

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 02:19 PM
Alternates means they go if one of the starters can't. In other words, Green goes if Brady(not deserving), Manning or Brees can't play due to injury (or choose not to attend for whatever reason)

Hoover
12-22-2004, 02:21 PM
Alternates means they go if one of the starters can't. In other words, Green goes if Brady(not deserving), Manning or Brees can't play due to injury (or choose not to attend for whatever reason)
How do they know? You would think that would be the case, but they are not pro bowlers until someone backs out.

Lzen
12-22-2004, 02:21 PM
Don't shoot me. I was just relaying the radio. They named the first 5, and said the last three were alternates. I figured alternates were on the team.

I believe alternates only get to play in the PB if another player at their position doesn't go. i.e. Sometimes SB QBs choose to not play in the PB or sometimes injuries prevent a player from playing in the game.

Messier
12-22-2004, 02:22 PM
At least on guard is starting, they have to.

Chiefnj
12-22-2004, 02:23 PM
Big Ben should have gotten the nod over Brady.

Coogs
12-22-2004, 02:23 PM
I believe alternates only get to play in the PB if another player at their position doesn't go. i.e. Sometimes SB QBs choose to not play in the PB or sometimes injuries prevent a player from playing in the game.

Sounds logical. I guess I should have titled this thread a bit differently.

Lzen
12-22-2004, 02:23 PM
How could Drew Bennett not make the PB?!

And I FRIGGING CALLED IT: BRADY made the PB over Green. What a frigging sham... a 4000 yd, ~66% comp, ~100 qb rating passer getting snubbed.

No doubt. Friggin' Brady over Green. :shake: What a joke. This is the same guy that threw 4 picks on Monday night. When was the last time a QB threw 4 INTs in a game and made the Pro Bowl in the same season? Hate to say it but now I hope he gets injured and can't play.

Pants
12-22-2004, 02:24 PM
No doubt. Friggin' Brady over Green. :shake: What a joke. This is the same guy that threw 4 picks on Monday night. When was the last time a QB threw 4 INTs in a game and made the Pro Bowl in the same season? Hate to say it but now I hope he gets injured and can't play.

Don't jinx Green, man.

Lzen
12-22-2004, 02:25 PM
Big Ben should have gotten the nod over Brady.

Wrong. Roth is playing well, that is true. But he's not better than Green.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 02:26 PM
Big Ben should have gotten the nod over Brady.
:spock:
His numbers don't warrant consideration. He is clearly in contention for ROTY, but Green's number dwarf his accomplishments (ie being on a team with a legitimate NFL defense, not a squad of Div II rejects)

Hoover
12-22-2004, 02:27 PM
Pro Bowl Voting Sucks because what matters the most is how a player is performing between the weeks they do voting.

Thats why people like Bennett and Hall who have kicked ass in the past 4 weeks are not on there

jspchief
12-22-2004, 02:28 PM
Big Ben should have gotten the nod over Brady.

What? Ben has had a heck of a year for a rookie, but he's nowhere near pro-bowl caliber. Green over Brady makes sense to me though, but I think Brady is pretty over-rated.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 02:30 PM
Bennett leads all AFC wideouts in receiving yards. He's in the top-3 in TDs and ypc. How in the hell does that guy not make it?!

kansas hawk
12-22-2004, 02:31 PM
wow the NFC sucks. Michael Vick who is hitting 55% of his passes makes it. give me break. christ he has a rating of 76.6, my god.

tk13
12-22-2004, 02:32 PM
I know it's a different year and all, but I also can't believe only one defensive player from the Patriots made it. I only see 4 Patriots period and two of them are special teamers.

Chiefnj
12-22-2004, 02:36 PM
What? Ben has had a heck of a year for a rookie, but he's nowhere near pro-bowl caliber. Green over Brady makes sense to me though, but I think Brady is pretty over-rated.

In defense of Ben, all I have to say is 12 straight wins with a rookie QB is more impressive to me than the numbers any other QB is putting up, except for Manning.

Stats don't always tell the story. Look at KC's defense for proof of that. Dalton is arguably one of the top defenders this year but he has paltry numbers.

Anyway, it's largely a popularity contest based on early season numbers. Congrats to the Chiefs who made it and earned some incentives.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 02:41 PM
In defense of Ben, all I have to say is 12 straight wins with a rookie QB is more impressive to me than the numbers any other QB is putting up, except for Manning.

That's a team stat, not an individual stat. Players make the PB on individual numbers at their respective positions.

That is, they <i>should</i>. Unfortunately the whole thing has degenerated into a braindead popularity contest. :grr:

jspchief
12-22-2004, 02:47 PM
In defense of Ben, all I have to say is 12 straight wins with a rookie QB is more impressive to me than the numbers any other QB is putting up, except for Manning.

Stats don't always tell the story. Look at KC's defense for proof of that. Dalton is arguably one of the top defenders this year but he has paltry numbers.

Anyway, it's largely a popularity contest based on early season numbers. Congrats to the Chiefs who made it and earned some incentives.

He's surrounded by a great defense, a good running game and great WRs. He really hasn't been required to do much more than "not screw it up".

I respect what he's done as a rookie QB, but i'll need to see a lot more from him before he gets my vote.

KevB
12-22-2004, 02:55 PM
That's a team stat, not an individual stat. Players make the PB on individual numbers at their respective positions.

That is, they <i>should</i>. Unfortunately the whole thing has degenerated into a braindead popularity contest. :grr:

The QB position is closely tied with wins, as it should be. The Pats with Brady have been dominant over the past two/three years. He deserves a lot of credit for that, thus, a Pro Bowl berth. If the Chiefs were in the playoff hunt, I'd be yelling for Green too.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 02:57 PM
The QB position is closely tied with wins, as it should be. The Pats with Brady have been dominant over the past two/three years. He deserves a lot of credit for that, thus, a Pro Bowl berth. If the Chiefs were in the playoff hunt, I'd be yelling for Green too.

Then, by that logic, ROETHELSBERGER should be in before Brady, Manning or Brees.

No, the Pro Bowl was supposed to be about the top performers at each respective position. Somewhere along the way it got perverted into it's current dumbass form.

Lzen
12-22-2004, 02:58 PM
The QB position is closely tied with wins, as it should be. The Pats with Brady have been dominant over the past two/three years. He deserves a lot of credit for that, thus, a Pro Bowl berth. If the Chiefs were in the playoff hunt, I'd be yelling for Green too.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong. It is not Green's fault that his defense sucks. Imagine if Brady had the Chiefs defense. What then? Would you still think he is a Pro Bowl QB?
:hmmm: Or what if Green had the Pats defense?

KevB
12-22-2004, 03:22 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong. It is not Green's fault that his defense sucks. Imagine if Brady had the Chiefs defense. What then? Would you still think he is a Pro Bowl QB?
:hmmm: Or what if Green had the Pats defense?

If Brady had the Chiefs D and O, he'd put up great numbers and miss the Pro Bowl with a 6-8 record. If Trent Green played for the Pats, I'd like to think he'd be as much of a winner as Brady has been. However, we don't know that. Brady led two game winning drives in the Super Bowl.....that's a fact.

KevB
12-22-2004, 03:25 PM
Then, by that logic, ROETHELSBERGER should be in before Brady, Manning or Brees.

No, the Pro Bowl was supposed to be about the top performers at each respective position. Somewhere along the way it got perverted into it's current dumbass form.

Brady is the team leader for the defending SB champs, Roethlisberger is a facilitator who throws no more than 20 times and hands the ball off 35-40 times a game. I said the PB QB is tied to winning, not that it's the only factor.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 03:26 PM
If Brady had the Chiefs D and O, he'd put up great numbers and miss the Pro Bowl with a 6-8 record. If Trent Green played for the Pats, I'd like to think he'd be as much of a winner as Brady has been. However, we don't know that. Brady led two game winning drives in the Super Bowl.....that's a fact.

So he goes to the SB because he played well in past SBs?
:spock:

Face it, Green got snubbed. His position numbers surpass Brady's with ease.

KevB
12-22-2004, 03:28 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong. It is not Green's fault that his defense sucks. Imagine if Brady had the Chiefs defense. What then? Would you still think he is a Pro Bowl QB?
:hmmm: Or what if Green had the Pats defense?

Also, should we pick the Pro Bowl team based on hypotheticals? We've argued that Priest is better than Tomlinson. What if Priest had to run in that Chargers offense pre-2004? What if Tomlinson had the weapons around him that Priest has had?

We could sit around arguing this for days and days. Bottom line, Brady has won Super Bowls, his team is 12-2, and he's clearly the primary focal point of the offense.

KevB
12-22-2004, 03:30 PM
So he goes to the SB because he played well in past SBs?
:spock:

Face it, Green got snubbed. His position numbers surpass Brady's with ease.

I'm not here to face anything. I live and die with the Chiefs. But to say Brady doesn't deserve a Pro Bowl invite is crazy. Take off the rose tinted glasses. What's the old cliche....stats are for losers? Well it applies here. Trent Green would forego his stats to win more games. If the tables were reversed, and Brady had the stats but a losing record, I'd be screaming for Trent.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 03:34 PM
Hey, Deion Sanders is back in the league... shouldn't he get the nod at starting safety over Lynch? After all, he was super in past SBs and his team has won more games than dungver.

Fairplay
12-22-2004, 03:35 PM
AFC PRO BOWL ROSTER
OFFENSE (21) PLAYERS
Wide receivers (4)
Marvin Harrison, IND
Andre Johnson, HOU
Chad Johnson, CIN
Hines Ward, PIT



I would love to have one of these recievers play for KC. Hinds Ward is one of my favs. Chad J. is an a-hole but he can play.

HC_Chief
12-22-2004, 03:37 PM
Joe Andruzi and Steve Neal should be pissed: they've won 12 games this year and those sorry losers Brian Waters and Will Shields are starters in place of them at the PB! :grr:

And don't even get me started at Daniel Graham getting snubbed in favor of Gonzalez & Gates! :rolleyes:

DeepSouth
12-22-2004, 03:56 PM
Not that it means anything, but I just noticed that the three AFC QBs are white and the three NFC QBs are black.

KevB
12-22-2004, 03:56 PM
Joe Andruzi and Steve Neal should be pissed: they've won 12 games this year and those sorry losers Brian Waters and Will Shields are starters in place of them at the PB! :grr:

And don't even get me started at Daniel Graham getting snubbed in favor of Gonzalez & Gates! :rolleyes:

These are all great arguments. Because clearly, through the course of history in the NFL, offensive guards have been just as responsible for winnning games as the QB. :rolleyes:

20 years from now, Tom Brady will be known as a clutch SB QB, while Green will be that guy that had better stats than Brady for a couple of years.

Brady and Green are both very good. If Brady were in Green's shoes, he'd put up superior numbers and a 6-8 record. If Green were in Brady's shoes, he wouldn't have the stats (because he wouldn't need to), but he'd have the wins. The equalizer is the wins, which is why they play the game. Therefore, Brady gets the nod. You're not changing my mind, and clearly I'm not changing yours either. I love my Chiefs, but I have an ability to see things beyond my homer glasses.

Logical
12-22-2004, 04:16 PM
I cannot believe all the bitching, to have 5 players when we have such a crappy team this year is amazing and had Priest not gotten hurt it would likely have been 6. This is really an amazing accomplishment. Because our team is so crappy Green not making it is no suprise. No position on the Pro Bowl team is more dependent on the team being a winner than QB so Green being aced out is not the least bit suprising especially when it is by a QB that has 2 of the last three SB wins and an ungodly 19 game winning streak over the last year.


Way to go Chiefs.

RINGLEADER
12-22-2004, 05:22 PM
That's about right for QB...not that I think Brady (who I completely spaced on when making a prediction earlier today) is better than Green, but a lot of weight is given to getting "W's".

RINGLEADER
12-22-2004, 05:27 PM
On second thought (and after visiting the stats page on ESPN) I have to say that Tom Brady is WAY behind Green in performance...they're tied for TDs, Brady has one more INT and he's about 600 yards and 7% in completion behind Green.

What was really surprising is how few yards Brees has thrown all year. Dude hasn't even broken 3000 yards this year (but his 24 TDs to 6 INTs is pretty impressive).

Hog Farmer
12-22-2004, 06:39 PM
They just updated the defense. KCWOLF is in at safety!

alanm
12-22-2004, 07:38 PM
What? Ben has had a heck of a year for a rookie, but he's nowhere near pro-bowl caliber. Green over Brady makes sense to me though, but I think Brady is pretty over-rated.Yeah, that's true. All he does is win SB's. :(

Saulbadguy
12-22-2004, 07:46 PM
Did anyone mention Jeremiah Trotter made the pro bowl? :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Bowser
12-22-2004, 08:42 PM
Looks like Champ Bailey is going to have to scour the field at Arrowhead to find his jock, if he wants to play in Hawaii.

CHIEF4EVER
12-22-2004, 09:13 PM
WTF??????? No Bartee? :shake:























I guess they already had their Water Distribution Specialist lined out. ROFL

Valiant
12-22-2004, 11:14 PM
I'm not here to face anything. I live and die with the Chiefs. But to say Brady doesn't deserve a Pro Bowl invite is crazy. Take off the rose tinted glasses. What's the old cliche....stats are for losers? Well it applies here. Trent Green would forego his stats to win more games. If the tables were reversed, and Brady had the stats but a losing record, I'd be screaming for Trent.


but being a QB does not correlate to wins.. look at plummer.. Wins are part of team game... Saying that W's is a QB stat is foolish...

Pro Bowl is about stats... If anything the Win/loss goes to the coaches.. Hands down, Green has better stats... Brady has a better defense... Brady gets in because of his defense..

CHIEF4EVER
12-22-2004, 11:24 PM
but being a QB does not correlate to wins.. look at plummer.. Wins are part of team game... Saying that W's is a QB stat is foolish...

Pro Bowl is about stats... If anything the Win/loss goes to the coaches.. Hands down, Green has better stats... Brady has a better defense... Brady gets in because of his defense..

If you ask me, the PB is a glorified popularity contest. The NFL couldn't afford to not let their golden boy get in while allowing a QB from a team with a losing record to play. No matter WHAT stats Trent would have put up, he wasn't going to Hawaii without a winning team record.

KevB
12-22-2004, 11:37 PM
but being a QB does not correlate to wins.. look at plummer.. Wins are part of team game... Saying that W's is a QB stat is foolish...

Pro Bowl is about stats... If anything the Win/loss goes to the coaches.. Hands down, Green has better stats... Brady has a better defense... Brady gets in because of his defense..

Huh? Winning is not a stat associated with a QB? Go ask Trent Green if he believes that.....Plummer is a perfect example (not sure why you used him). He has some numbers this year, but he's not a winner. Thus, most everyone recognizes him for what he is at this point.

The Pro Bowl is about whatever each specific voter wants it to be about. You think it's stats, someone else thinks its wins, someone else might think Brady is cute (fans vote). Bottom line, people know Brady because he wins games and wins Super Bowls. Thus, he gets the accolades (and deservedly so). The Pro Bowl is part of that.

I also agree that Brady's D helped get him to the Pro Bowl. I've never argued that. I think Brady and Green are very similar QBs. The difference is the winning. You contradict yourself above. You say winning has nothing to do with with the Pro Bowl, then admit that Brady's D (which aided the win column) got Brady into the game.

Rausch
12-22-2004, 11:50 PM
I'm friggen ecstatic for Waters. I thought for sure the popularity contest aspect and losing record would fug him...

go bowe
12-22-2004, 11:59 PM
I'm friggen ecstatic for Waters. I thought for sure the popularity contest aspect and losing record would fug him...he sure deserved it this year, if not before...

he owned ray ray... :D :D :D

and didn't he have some lingering bicep injury earlier in the year?

he was still awesome...

Rausch
12-23-2004, 12:22 AM
he sure deserved it this year, if not before...

he owned ray ray... :D :D :D

and didn't he have some lingering bicep injury earlier in the year?

he was still awesome...

And he's an undrafted, converted fullback playing gaurd, IIRC...

That's just astounding to me. :)

Nightfyre
12-23-2004, 12:32 AM
What about BJ Sams as a return specialist?

Straight, No Chaser
12-23-2004, 12:41 AM
Does anyone here actually watch the Pro Bowl?
The NFL gets lots of milage out of saying " ___ time Pro Bowler John Doe..."
I figure it's nothing less than another opportunity to get injured and nothing more than a free trip to Hawaii.

---->

Rausch
12-23-2004, 12:54 AM
Does anyone here actually watch the Pro Bowl?
The NFL gets lots of milage out of saying " ___ time Pro Bowler John Doe..."
I figure it's nothing less than another opportunity to get injured and nothing more than a free trip to Hawaii.

---->

I don't.

It's just nice to see good players get recognized. And you know they get bonuses and much larger contracts due to the recognition...

Straight, No Chaser
12-23-2004, 12:57 AM
...you know they get bonuses and much larger contracts due to the recognition...

Yep.

I guess the injury factor is minimzed as well. None of those guys really go after it but there is that freak accident that could happen.


---->

Rausch
12-23-2004, 01:02 AM
Yep.

I guess the injury factor is minimzed as well. None of those guys really go after it but there is that freak accident that could happen.


---->

Poor Robert Edwards (was that that Pats rookie stud RB that got his knee ruined?)

beer bacon
12-23-2004, 02:04 AM
We are tied for 3rd in the NFL and second in the AFC with five players going to the Pro Bowl. Yet we are ****ing 6-8 :deevee:

StcChief
12-23-2004, 07:51 AM
Would be sweet to win the trip.
Hawaii in Feb. sounds good.