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Coach
12-26-2004, 12:46 PM
Nice game can't erase naughty year

Let's keep the Christmas gift given to us by the Chiefs and the Oakland Raiders in perspective.

It was a fantastic gift, the perfect way to end Christmas Day. The Chiefs and the Raiders split 61 points, and the hometown team grabbed one more point than the Raiders when kicker Lawrence Tynes split the uprights with a 38-yard field goal with 22 seconds to play.

Kansas City 31, Oakland 30.

Saturday's game didn't lack for action, suspense or story lines.

Both teams scored 21 points in the first half. Trent Green threw for 358 yards and two scores. Tony Gonzalez caught 11 passes for 124 yards. Receiver Eddie Kennison went over the 1,000-yard mark for the first time as a Chief, catching six passes for 79 yards.

For the third straight game, Larry Johnson scored two touchdowns. Rookie defensive end Jared Allen picked up his ninth sack of the season. Return man Dante Hall set up the game-winning points, returning a kickoff 49 yards. Kansas City's defense held the Raiders without a touchdown in the second half.

Tynes nailed his first game-winning kick. Rookie receiver Samie Parker recorded his second straight solid performance, snagging three passes for 35 yards. His two sideline, tiptoe grabs were critical.

The Chiefs, 7-8, have now won four games in a row and kept their razor-thin playoff hopes alive. (If every team in the NFL loses the rest of their games, then I believe the Chiefs sneak into the playoffs if they win a coin flip.)

But let's make sure we keep all of this in proper perspective. Kansas City's Priest Holmes-less winning streak doesn't mean that coach Dick Vermeil has fixed the Chiefs and there are now fewer problems heading into this off-season than we anticipated.

Nope. Saturday's victory was fun. It was one of the best gifts left under the tree. If Chiefs fans were going to be forced to sit out in the cold on Christmas Day, thank God the Chiefs had the courtesy to play an exciting game.

But Saturday's gift doesn't get the Chiefs out of the doghouse. They've been too bad this season. It's no different than the spouse who was caught cheating in September and thought diamond earrings for Christmas would take the pain and embarrassment away.

It's not that easy, is it?

Saturday's game reminds me of the old Chris Rock comedy routine about men wanting credit for things they're supposed to do. The Raiders are a horrific team, playing with their backup quarterback and a defensive scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

The Chiefs are supposed to beat the Oakland Raiders at Arrowhead Stadium on Christmas day. You don't win on the road at Christmas, unless you're Shaquille O'Neal and you're playing the Lakers.

What should we make of Kansas City's four-game winning steak?

Not much. The Chiefs have beaten the Raiders, the Titans, the Broncos and the Raiders. The Chiefs have beaten three teams that have folded the tent and mailed it in the last half of the season. If the Chiefs legitimize their strong finish by beating the playoff-bound San Diego Chargers in the last week of the regular season, Chiefs fans should not tolerate any discussion about how close the Chiefs were to being a good team this season.

The Chiefs have problems. Obviously, most of their problems are on defense, and there have been no answers provided the last month of the season. But there are offensive problems, too. Don't tell Vermeil that I wrote this, but Trent Green does a mighty fine Elvis Grbac impersonation in the 2-minute offense.

As usual, Vermeil slobbered all over Green in the postgame news conference.

“Our quarterback was spectacular,” Vermeil said. “The job that he did on that last touchdown drive; there were two or three of the plays that were just on Trent Green. I keep raving about him because I love the guy and respect him so much, and the whole squad does. Oh boy! Was he special. It's tough to do what he did tonight.”

Hey, I love Green's toughness, leadership and reliability. I don't have a problem with Green. He's a winning football player. But his turnovers — a first-quarter interception and late-game fumble — led to 10 Raider points. Why Green spiked the ball with 38 seconds to play on second down just before Tynes' winning kick is a mystery that will go unsolved. It's the kind of mental gaffe that can cost a team a football game. Vermeil, the coaching staff and Green don't know how to manage the game clock.

Thank the Chiefs for the Christmas gift, but let's keep pressuring them to go shopping this offseason.

Sure-Oz
12-26-2004, 12:50 PM
I fully agree on the shopping part.

Dave Lane
12-26-2004, 01:16 PM
I agree with most of this. TG is not a god but a very good QB. Calling TG a Grbac is an insult far too low for Big Sexy. Jason thats hitting below the belt!

Dave

Sure-Oz
12-26-2004, 01:21 PM
This is from a guy that wants jeff george to splurge all over him.

2bikemike
12-26-2004, 01:38 PM
This is from a guy that wants jeff george to splurge all over him.

Damn thats hitting the nail squarely on the head.

Phobia
12-26-2004, 01:43 PM
This is from a guy that wants jeff george to splurge all over him.

I'd love to have Jeff George splurge all over me. In fact, I'll take a good splurging from any of you males.

I adore being splurged upon.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2004, 01:47 PM
Bravo Jason! he said everything ive been trying to say the past month, only better! Dont be so easily fooled Chiefs fans. This team still has alot of problems and they better get them fixed before next season!

2bikemike
12-26-2004, 01:59 PM
Bravo Jason! he said everything ive been trying to say the past month, only better! Dont be so easily fooled Chiefs fans. This team still has alot of problems and they better get them fixed before next season!

I don't know of anybody but TJ who wishes for the Chiefs to stand pat.

whoman69
12-26-2004, 03:20 PM
I'd love to have Jeff George splurge all over me. In fact, I'll take a good splurging from any of you males.

I adore being splurged upon.
You're beginning to worry me.

Logical
12-26-2004, 03:58 PM
Accurate article by Jason, even the point about Green yesterday.

bricks
12-26-2004, 04:04 PM
folks, shall we say Fatlock is on fire again!!!

Rain Man
12-26-2004, 04:14 PM
I don't see how anybody can criticize Trent Green. He's been practically superhuman this year.

memyselfI
12-26-2004, 04:18 PM
I think ole Whitlock demeans BOTH teams when he claims the Raiders mailed in either game the Chiefs won against them. Clearly, BOTH teams came to play yesterday evening and provided an entertaining and fantastic show for fans of the ENTIRE NFL. To say the Chiefs beat a team that has mailed in their efforts the past few weeks really diminishes not only what the Chiefs have accomplished but the fact that that the Raiders, missing MANY starters, almost beat them twice. Hence if the Raiders, a team mailing in their efforts, are playing toe to toe with a team supposedly playing their hearts out...

what EXACTLY does that say about the Chiefs? :hmmm: And is it good. :eek:

Rain Man
12-26-2004, 04:20 PM
Rats. There for a second I thought you had posted something I could agree with, mmI.

philfree
12-26-2004, 04:23 PM
As far as the fumble we shouldn't have been passing the ball in that situation anyway. That was awful play calling with a lead and 2 minutes on the clock. That's how you lose games and get the QB killed for no reason. For the most part this was no brainer article. Accurate for the most part though.

PhilFree :arrow:

KCChiefsFan88
12-26-2004, 04:48 PM
The comparison to Elvis Grbac is a little harsh.

Yeah Trent Green should have protected the ball better on that fumble, but I blame the coaching staff for calling a pass play in that situation and the protection for breaking down more.

Rain Man
12-26-2004, 04:52 PM
I don't blame the fumble on Trent Green, other than maybe just needing to cover it up more.

The fumble was precipitated by two earlier events:

1. We had a horrible play call on first down, throwing a short pass that would have been no more effective than a run if it had worked. When it didn't, it stopped the clock and left us in a second and ten situation.

2. Ted Washington was on Trent less than two seconds after he got the snap. He had no protection and shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place. He never even had a chance to set up.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2004, 06:22 PM
The comparison to Elvis Grbac is a little harsh.

Yeah Trent Green should have protected the ball better on that fumble, but I blame the coaching staff for calling a pass play in that situation and the protection for breaking down more.

Maybe the play call was bad?? Maybe it wasnt?? It still doesnt excuse the fact that Trent should have had more awareness on the field and protected the ball better. This team has many many problems. Personally, they need to try and figure out why they seem to play better 2 out of the past 3 years late in the season after the pressure is off and the playoff hopes are dead already? Doesnt anyone else wonder that???

Why couldnt they have played better back in September and October???

WilliamTheIrish
12-26-2004, 06:22 PM
Trent Green compared to Elvis Grbac?

**** you, Jason. Did you see the same Green I saw yesterday? The Green that moved in the pocket and slid past defenders to throw for nearly 400 yards?

The Elvis I recall would crumple in the pocket at the first sign of pressure.

Green has his shortcomings, we can agree on that.

Comparing him to the guy who sat out a game in San Diego because of a sprained pinky finger is a ridiculous comparison.

WilliamTheIrish
12-26-2004, 06:27 PM
Bravo Jason! he said everything ive been trying to say the past month, only better! Dont be so easily fooled Chiefs fans. This team still has alot of problems and they better get them fixed before next season!

Fooled? Fooled by what? There isn't a person on this board that doesn't know the Chiefs have major holes.

JFC, we all watched the season, did we not?

Deberg_1990
12-26-2004, 06:29 PM
Fooled? Fooled by what? There isn't a person on this board that doesn't know the Chiefs have major holes.

JFC, we all watched the season, did we not?

Ive just seen a whole lot of posts on here that people seem to act has if we have won the super bowl these past few weeks?? I mean, we have strung together a few nice wins, so what? Basically we are not any better than the Texans, Saints and Cowboys. We still are far from a playoff team.

philfree
12-26-2004, 06:29 PM
Maybe the play call was bad?? Maybe it wasnt?? It still doesnt excuse the fact that Trent should have had more awareness on the field and protected the ball better. This team has many many problems. Personally, they need to try and figure out why they seem to play better 2 out of the past 3 years late in the season after the pressure is off and the playoff hopes are dead already? Doesnt anyone else wonder that???

Why couldnt they have played better back in September and October???

We lose more games when we have more TOs and untimely penalties. The reason we start winning late in the season is because our coachs keep coaching and our players keep playing.

PhilFree :arrow:

memyselfI
12-26-2004, 06:31 PM
Trent Green compared to Elvis Grbac?

**** you, Jason. Did you see the same Green I saw yesterday? The Green that moved in the pocket and slid past defenders to throw for nearly 400 yards?

The Elvis I recall would crumple in the pocket at the first sign of pressure.

Green has his shortcomings, we can agree on that.

Comparing him to the guy who sat out a game in San Diego because of a sprained pinky finger is a ridiculous comparison.

The comparison is pathetic.

Anyone with a brain or a clue knows that Trent Green is Elvis Grbac....






on steroids and with a clue.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2004, 06:33 PM
I think we can all agree on this stement from Jason:

"Vermeil, the coaching staff and Green don't know how to manage the game clock."

Spott
12-26-2004, 06:35 PM
Trent Green isn't our problem. The problem is that we have 11 Elvis Grbac's on defense that are wasting one of the top offenses in football. Trent does make some bonehead plays, but he also directs an offense that consistently puts up at least 30 pts a game with 2 starting recievers that are average at best.

WilliamTheIrish
12-26-2004, 06:36 PM
Ive just seen a whole lot of posts on here that people seem to act has if we have won the super bowl these past few weeks?? I mean, we have strung together a few nice wins, so what? Basically we are not any better than the Texans, Saints and Cowboys. We still are far from a playoff team.

Show me one.

Rausch
12-26-2004, 06:38 PM
We still are far from a playoff team.

That's funny, because we've got more talent now than we did last year, when we were 13-3 and a playoff team.

WilliamTheIrish
12-26-2004, 06:38 PM
The comparison is pathetic.

Anyone with a brain or a clue knows that Trent Green is Elvis Grbac....






on steroids and with a clue.


Oooooh, and I was going to smak you good until I scrolled down.. :)

Deberg_1990
12-26-2004, 06:40 PM
That's funny, because we've got more talent now than we did last year, when we were 13-3 and a playoff team.

Hmm..you know what that means then? Dare i say that Greg Robinson got more out of these crap defensive guys than Gunther did?? Hmmmmmm????

Coach
12-26-2004, 06:45 PM
Hmm..you know what that means then? Dare i say that Greg Robinson got more out of these crap defensive guys than Gunther did?? Hmmmmmm????

Hell no. Greg Robinson was a tool. He was 50% of our problem, the other 50% was that the players had to readjust from a shitty scheme to a different scheme. Let alone that G-Rob was on his 3rd year when the Chiefs were 13-3. This is Gunther's first year, so that's quite a reach. However....

G-Rob's first year 6-10
Gunther's first year 7-8, depending the outcome in SD.

Either way, Gun has beat Greg Robinson on their first year records. I expect the 2nd year to be improved, no excuses.

Rausch
12-26-2004, 06:47 PM
Hmm..you know what that means then? Dare i say that Greg Robinson got more out of these crap defensive guys than Gunther did?? Hmmmmmm????

I'd argue it means that NEITHER coach has enough talent to work with.

Our secondary is terrible as a whole. Harts looks better than Woods, but still green. Wesley has looked better lately, but Bartee and McCleon take turns givng up 50+ yard TD's...Warfield would be a solid no 2 CB, but not no 1.

Our LB's are average. MLB is blelow average.

What no one mentions is that our pass rush is MUCH better this year. And at least every now and again we can shut down a RB.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2004, 06:49 PM
Hell no. Greg Robinson was a tool. He was 50% of our problem, the other 50% was that the players had to readjust from a shitty scheme to a different scheme. Let alone that G-Rob was on his 3rd year when the Chiefs were 13-3. This is Gunther's first year, so that's quite a reach. However....

G-Rob's first year 6-10
Gunther's first year 7-8, depending the outcome in SD.

Either way, Gun has beat Greg Robinson on their first year records. I expect the 2nd year to be improved, no excuses.

Not trying to defend GRob, but he did manage to do a better job of getting Timely turnovers than this years squad has done. But Gunthers boys have done much better against the run, so it probably has evened out some. The timely turnovers helped us tremendously last year though.

Coach
12-26-2004, 06:50 PM
I'd argue it means that NEITHER coach has enough talent to work with.

Our secondary is terrible as a whole. Harts looks better than Woods, but still green. Wesley has looked better lately, but Bartee and McCleon take turns givng up 50+ yard TD's...Warfield would be a solid no 2 CB, but not no 1.

Our LB's are average. MLB is blelow average.

What no one mentions is that our pass rush is MUCH better this year. And at least every now and again we can shut down a RB.

Not to mention that our Run Defense has improved from horrible to average at best IMHO.

Count Alex's Wins
12-26-2004, 06:51 PM
Not trying to defend GRob, but he did manage to do a better job of getting Timely turnovers than this years squad has done. But Gunthers boys have done much better against the run, so it probably has evened out some. The timely turnovers helped us tremendously last year though.

I think it was more luck than anything. We played some shitty offenses last year.

Coach
12-26-2004, 06:51 PM
Not trying to defend GRob, but he did manage to do a better job of getting Timely turnovers than this years squad has done. But Gunthers boys have done much better against the run, so it probably has evened out some. The timely turnovers helped us tremendously last year though.

Yes, which bit us in the ass early in the season. There were fumbles, but for some strange reason, the ball just bounce right back into the opposing team, or it goes out of bounds. Now that we're getting the turnovers and all that (Example: Denver and Tennesse games), we're winning games. Not to mention that there were some INT's that were dropped as well.

Rausch
12-26-2004, 06:52 PM
Not to mention that our Run Defense has improved from horrible to average at best IMHO.

But it is improvement. And as long as we keep improving we'll be fine. We don't need a badazz defense, just one that doesn't suck azz...

If our defense gave up 21 pts a game instead of 31 pts a game we'd have a shot at 16-0....

Deberg_1990
12-26-2004, 06:57 PM
If our defense gave up 21 pts a game instead of 31 pts a game we'd have a shot at 16-0....

nope, we'd be sitting at 10-4-1 right now in the thick of the playoff hunt! i just checked the schedule:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/schedule/

Coach
12-26-2004, 06:58 PM
But it is improvement. And as long as we keep improving we'll be fine. We don't need a badazz defense, just one that doesn't suck azz...

If our defense gave up 21 pts a game instead of 31 pts a game we'd have a shot at 16-0....

Hey, I like the improvement. I feel that we don't need to sign a big time DT or something, but at least get someone who can put up a pass-rush on a consistent basis. Our real big problem is the secondary and the LB's.

But looking in between the 2003 and 2004 Rush Defense here's what it shows

2004
Yds/G 113.1
TD's 17
FD's 89
20+ yards 10
YPC 4.6

2003
Yds/G 146.5
TD's 18
FD's 120
20+ yards 16
YPC 5.2

You can CLEARLY see a major improvement, other than the TD's which is almost the same, but the Yards per game was down, the First Downs is down, and the 20+ yards is down as well as Yards per Carry.

WilliamTheIrish
12-26-2004, 07:04 PM
Not trying to defend GRob...., but .....

I'd suggest you not try defending him at all.

Coach
12-26-2004, 07:06 PM
I'd suggest you not try defending him at all.

Agreed. I would recommend on whoever tries to defend G-Rob is looking at a bannable offense.

WilliamTheIrish
12-26-2004, 07:07 PM
Ive just seen a whole lot of posts on here that people seem to act has if we have won the super bowl these past few weeks?? .......


Still waiting....

whoman69
12-26-2004, 07:29 PM
Hmm..you know what that means then? Dare i say that Greg Robinson got more out of these crap defensive guys than Gunther did?? Hmmmmmm????
that's almost neg rep worthy. Greg Robinson is the worst thing to happen to this club since they hired a ST coach as the head coach.

kansas hawk
12-26-2004, 08:02 PM
ok fair enough. now check there pass D from 03 and now

Calcountry
12-27-2004, 12:23 PM
I don't see how anybody can criticize Trent Green. He's been practically superhuman this year.
That last fumble was on Al Saunders IMO. They should have ran the ball there instead of passing. Force the Raiders to use their last time out, otherwise we run the clock down to about 50 secs and then punt.